Yes because cloaking devices are the paramount of honor ... oh and firing under cloak.
In war, there is nothing more honourable than victory. There's a difference between using an enhanced battle cloak and discriminatingly targeting military vessel and using thalaron weapons which can't discriminate between military and civilian, and which leaves the area poisoned for decades afterwards.
Also, firing while cloaked still gives your foe a chance to fight back - it still unleashes the call to battle. Thalaron weapons don't.
True, but the Klingons would never use a weapon they considered "cowardly" since that's synonymous with "dishonourable" to them. That means they effectively do not permit the use of Thalaron Weapons within their Empire. That's effectively a ban.
Just like they'd never launch sneak attacks, deploy bio-weapons or target civilian and non-combatant populations?
Right.
What part of disliking a tactic does not mean that tactic isn't available for use don't you get? Especially in the context of non-Klingon philosophies in the KDF.
In war, there is nothing more honourable than victory. There's a difference between using an enhanced battle cloak and discriminatingly targeting military vessel and using thalaron weapons which can't discriminate between military and civilian, and which leaves the area poisoned for decades afterwards.
Also, firing while cloaked still gives your foe a chance to fight back - it still unleashes the call to battle. Thalaron weapons don't.
For starters, Thalaron weapons don't linger. If they did, Picard et al would have been ashed the moment they walked into the Senate Chamber on Romulus, as would your Captain when they flew into the Great Bloom.
Secondly, do you really not the see the hypocrisy of your own argument? "Anything goes, except when it doesn't". Either there's limits, or there aren't. You don't get to have it both ways.
In war, there is nothing more honourable than victory. There's a difference between using an enhanced battle cloak and discriminatingly targeting military vessel and using thalaron weapons which can't discriminate between military and civilian, and which leaves the area poisoned for decades afterwards.
Also, firing while cloaked still gives your foe a chance to fight back - it still unleashes the call to battle. Thalaron weapons don't.
According to a DS9 episode, the one where Worf is accused of shooting a civilian Klingon ship, the Klingon advocate say it's fine to shoot on a civilian ship during wartime, for a Klingon.
Also, the Thalaron don't leave any kind of radiation or anything. It kill quickly anything on its path. I think it was banned because it could easily be used for massive genocide, and turn a war to mutual anihilation. However, it's a very humane weapon, considering it kill far more quickly than a lot of weapon currently in use (plasma, phaser on Andorian, melee weapon, even dirsuptor).
If I had the choice of being burned to death by plasma, cut in pieces by a sword, or killed quickly by Thalaron, I'd take the Thalaron every time.
1.) While the Federation has banned the research of Thalaron Radiation. That does not mean other Factions have chosen so. And while the Federation/StarFleet can attempt to apply political pressure on its Allies to destroy or not use these weapons. The Prime Directive strictly prohibits them from directly involving themselves in the matter of disposing of Thalaron Weapons. Not that there arent other more subvert means of disabling or destroying them through sabatoge. Now if a group, targeted by anyone possessing Thalaron Weapons, was to ask for the Federations protection or assistance then it be a different story. But as of right now. The Federation has no legal means of stepping in. (The incident involving Picard was the exception...It was revealed that Shinzon was planning an attack on Earth using the Thalaron Weapon Scimater. This direct threat to the Federation gave StarFleet the authority to step in and dispose of the Thalaron threat.)
2.) The Federation is at war on multiple fronts. The most direct threat in the beginning is the Klingons in an all out war in the Eta Eridani Sector. So much of the Federations resources are going into this that literally attention to other important matters to the Federation. Like Exploration or Aid to those who cant possibly exhange anything valuable in return are put the the wayside. Not far from the Warfront, and quite literally to the opposite flank is the True Way using insurgency tactics to subvert and eliminate Federation presence in Cardassian Space. Guerilla Warfare is notorious for being a blackhole for military resources and without the proper attention can cause Super Powers to shutdown shop and go home. The Cardassians have no means to combat these Terrorists and so it falls heavily on the Federation to deal with this Terrorist group. Theres also the rare but troubling intrusions from the mirror universe. While they havent made any successful intrusions into the Prime Universe. Theres no telling whats waiting on the otherside. In the Oriellius Sector, where both Klingons and the Federation vie for Deferei resources theyre fighting off skirmishes with Breen. The Federation is also pushing much needed resources into Gamma Orionis to stop another push from the Borg into the Alpha Quadrant. Youve got Tholians popping up in areas far outside of their borders where they rarely tread. As for Romulan Space, well everyone thinks they have the legitimate claim as the successors to the Romulan Star Empire. For awhile there Empress Sela has the dominating position until she goes missing. Youve got Remans rebelling and D'Tan establishing a Romulan Republic. Theres the Tal Shiar behaving in its own interests. Some Romulans siding with the Federation while others side with the Klingons.
3.) Politically and resource wise, the current Galactic crisis would logically take precedence over the Romulans and Remans using Thalaron Weapons. When the Federation is pressured on all sides with fighting, starvation and disease. Is it smart for the Federation to take a vocal stand against the Romulans and Remans maintaining weapons that they do not approve of? If they do, do they risk alienating their new allies and possibly finding themselves at the other end of those weapons? And to top it off, pushing those same allies into the ranks of the Klingons where others have already gone. Is that what the Federation needs right now? Angry Romulans and Remans shoving WMDs down their throats? Would it then be better to ally yourself with them, gain their trust and in doing so gain an opportunity to influence them against using these Thalaron Weapons.
4.) The Federation, while the most popular faction. In terms of conditions are by far the worst off, even compared to the shattered Romulans. Theyre spread too thin. Even for a massive Faction as the Federation. Im shocked that there isnt talk in game through NPCs of Federation Planets starving or finding it hard to deal with disease and illness. As these would be prominent in a time in which the Federation has so much committed to dire situations that surround their borders. Morally speaking, yes the Federation has an obligation to stand against such use of WMDs. And it does put the Federation in a bad light that their current Allies are running around with them loaded up on every Scimater Class. But the Federation, just like during the Dominon War, are in serious trouble and they dont have the luxury of being morally above it all. Their entire infrastructure is at risk of failing and their military might is not only strained but taking a beating it may not be able to recover from. At this point its a smarter move to ignore, or atleast tolerate to a point the WMDs in the arsenals of their Allies. The Federation needs all the help it can get and sticking their nose in the air when theyve been figuratively knocked to their knees would be more harmful then good.
By the way Cryptic. Youre welcome that I went ahead and gave you a better answer to your self created dilemma than your writers probably thought about..if they thought about it at all.. Free of charge.
According to a DS9 episode, the one where Worf is accused of shooting a civilian Klingon ship, the Klingon advocate say it's fine to shoot on a civilian ship during wartime, for a Klingon.
Also, the Thalaron don't leave any kind of radiation or anything. It kill quickly anything on its path. I think it was banned because it could easily be used for massive genocide, and turn a war to mutual anihilation. However, it's a very humane weapon, considering it kill far more quickly than a lot of weapon currently in use (plasma, phaser on Andorian, melee weapon, even dirsuptor).
If I had the choice of being burned to death by plasma, cut in pieces by a sword, or killed quickly by Thalaron, I'd take the Thalaron every time.
I'm 99.9% sure that in the Great Bloom mission they DO say that the shields have to be kept up or something because there is still radiation in the system from the Scimitar explosion.
1.) While the Federation has banned the research of Thalaron Radiation. That does not mean other Factions have chosen so. And while the Federation/StarFleet can attempt to apply political pressure on its Allies to destroy or not use these weapons. The Prime Directive strictly prohibits them from directly involving themselves in the matter of disposing of Thalaron Weapons. Not that there arent other more subvert means of disabling or destroying them through sabatoge. Now if a group, targeted by anyone possessing Thalaron Weapons, was to ask for the Federations protection or assistance then it be a different story. But as of right now. The Federation has no legal means of stepping in. (The incident involving Picard was the exception...It was revealed that Shinzon was planning an attack on Earth using the Thalaron Weapon Scimater. This direct threat to the Federation gave StarFleet the authority to step in and dispose of the Thalaron threat.)
2.) The Federation is at war on multiple fronts. The most direct threat in the beginning is the Klingons in an all out war in the Eta Eridani Sector. So much of the Federations resources are going into this that literally attention to other important matters to the Federation. Like Exploration or Aid to those who cant possibly exhange anything valuable in return are put the the wayside. Not far from the Warfront, and quite literally to the opposite flank is the True Way using insurgency tactics to subvert and eliminate Federation presence in Cardassian Space. Guerilla Warfare is notorious for being a blackhole for military resources and without the proper attention can cause Super Powers to shutdown shop and go home. The Cardassians have no means to combat these Terrorists and so it falls heavily on the Federation to deal with this Terrorist group. Theres also the rare but troubling intrusions from the mirror universe. While they havent made any successful intrusions into the Prime Universe. Theres no telling whats waiting on the otherside. In the Oriellius Sector, where both Klingons and the Federation vie for Deferei resources theyre fighting off skirmishes with Breen. The Federation is also pushing much needed resources into Gamma Orionis to stop another push from the Borg into the Alpha Quadrant. Youve got Tholians popping up in areas far outside of their borders where they rarely tread. As for Romulan Space, well everyone thinks they have the legitimate claim as the successors to the Romulan Star Empire. For awhile there Empress Sela has the dominating position until she goes missing. Youve got Remans rebelling and D'Tan establishing a Romulan Republic. Theres the Tal Shiar behaving in its own interests. Some Romulans siding with the Federation while others side with the Klingons.
3.) Politically and resource wise, the current Galactic crisis would logically take precedence over the Romulans and Remans using Thalaron Weapons. When the Federation is pressured on all sides with fighting, starvation and disease. Is it smart for the Federation to take a vocal stand against the Romulans and Remans maintaining weapons that they do not approve of? If they do, do they risk alienating their new allies and possibly finding themselves at the other end of those weapons? And to top it off, pushing those same allies into the ranks of the Klingons where others have already gone. Is that what the Federation needs right now? Angry Romulans and Remans shoving WMDs down their throats? Would it then be better to ally yourself with them, gain their trust and in doing so gain an opportunity to influence them against using these Thalaron Weapons.
4.) The Federation, while the most popular faction. In terms of conditions are by far the worst off, even compared to the shattered Romulans. Theyre spread too thin. Even for a massive Faction as the Federation. Im shocked that there isnt talk in game through NPCs of Federation Planets starving or finding it hard to deal with disease and illness. As these would be prominent in a time in which the Federation has so much committed to dire situations that surround their borders. Morally speaking, yes the Federation has an obligation to stand against such use of WMDs. And it does put the Federation in a bad light that their current Allies are running around with them loaded up on every Scimater Class. But the Federation, just like during the Dominon War, are in serious trouble and they dont have the luxury of being morally above it all. Their entire infrastructure is at risk of failing and their military might is not only strained but taking a beating it may not be able to recover from. At this point its a smarter move to ignore, or atleast tolerate to a point the WMDs in the arsenals of their Allies. The Federation needs all the help it can get and sticking their nose in the air when theyve been figuratively knocked to their knees would be more harmful then good.
By the way Cryptic. Youre welcome that I went ahead and gave you a better answer to your self created dilemma than your writers probably thought about..if they thought about it at all.. Free of charge.
Okay, that explains the Federation. Now explain why the Klingons wouldn't end the alliance.
Research on thalaron weapons are forbidden in the federation. The romulan republic is not a part of the federation, but why would the federation tolerate an alliance with a race who has this kind of weapons?
So if the new scimitar has thalaron weapons, the alliance between federation and the romulan republic has to end or has to debate. These weapons are a risk for this alliance.
Exactly. One more reason Romulans and Feds should never be allied.
Comments
In war, there is nothing more honourable than victory. There's a difference between using an enhanced battle cloak and discriminatingly targeting military vessel and using thalaron weapons which can't discriminate between military and civilian, and which leaves the area poisoned for decades afterwards.
Also, firing while cloaked still gives your foe a chance to fight back - it still unleashes the call to battle. Thalaron weapons don't.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Just like they'd never launch sneak attacks, deploy bio-weapons or target civilian and non-combatant populations?
Right.
What part of disliking a tactic does not mean that tactic isn't available for use don't you get? Especially in the context of non-Klingon philosophies in the KDF.
For starters, Thalaron weapons don't linger. If they did, Picard et al would have been ashed the moment they walked into the Senate Chamber on Romulus, as would your Captain when they flew into the Great Bloom.
Secondly, do you really not the see the hypocrisy of your own argument? "Anything goes, except when it doesn't". Either there's limits, or there aren't. You don't get to have it both ways.
Also, the Thalaron don't leave any kind of radiation or anything. It kill quickly anything on its path. I think it was banned because it could easily be used for massive genocide, and turn a war to mutual anihilation. However, it's a very humane weapon, considering it kill far more quickly than a lot of weapon currently in use (plasma, phaser on Andorian, melee weapon, even dirsuptor).
If I had the choice of being burned to death by plasma, cut in pieces by a sword, or killed quickly by Thalaron, I'd take the Thalaron every time.
1.) While the Federation has banned the research of Thalaron Radiation. That does not mean other Factions have chosen so. And while the Federation/StarFleet can attempt to apply political pressure on its Allies to destroy or not use these weapons. The Prime Directive strictly prohibits them from directly involving themselves in the matter of disposing of Thalaron Weapons. Not that there arent other more subvert means of disabling or destroying them through sabatoge. Now if a group, targeted by anyone possessing Thalaron Weapons, was to ask for the Federations protection or assistance then it be a different story. But as of right now. The Federation has no legal means of stepping in. (The incident involving Picard was the exception...It was revealed that Shinzon was planning an attack on Earth using the Thalaron Weapon Scimater. This direct threat to the Federation gave StarFleet the authority to step in and dispose of the Thalaron threat.)
2.) The Federation is at war on multiple fronts. The most direct threat in the beginning is the Klingons in an all out war in the Eta Eridani Sector. So much of the Federations resources are going into this that literally attention to other important matters to the Federation. Like Exploration or Aid to those who cant possibly exhange anything valuable in return are put the the wayside. Not far from the Warfront, and quite literally to the opposite flank is the True Way using insurgency tactics to subvert and eliminate Federation presence in Cardassian Space. Guerilla Warfare is notorious for being a blackhole for military resources and without the proper attention can cause Super Powers to shutdown shop and go home. The Cardassians have no means to combat these Terrorists and so it falls heavily on the Federation to deal with this Terrorist group. Theres also the rare but troubling intrusions from the mirror universe. While they havent made any successful intrusions into the Prime Universe. Theres no telling whats waiting on the otherside. In the Oriellius Sector, where both Klingons and the Federation vie for Deferei resources theyre fighting off skirmishes with Breen. The Federation is also pushing much needed resources into Gamma Orionis to stop another push from the Borg into the Alpha Quadrant. Youve got Tholians popping up in areas far outside of their borders where they rarely tread. As for Romulan Space, well everyone thinks they have the legitimate claim as the successors to the Romulan Star Empire. For awhile there Empress Sela has the dominating position until she goes missing. Youve got Remans rebelling and D'Tan establishing a Romulan Republic. Theres the Tal Shiar behaving in its own interests. Some Romulans siding with the Federation while others side with the Klingons.
3.) Politically and resource wise, the current Galactic crisis would logically take precedence over the Romulans and Remans using Thalaron Weapons. When the Federation is pressured on all sides with fighting, starvation and disease. Is it smart for the Federation to take a vocal stand against the Romulans and Remans maintaining weapons that they do not approve of? If they do, do they risk alienating their new allies and possibly finding themselves at the other end of those weapons? And to top it off, pushing those same allies into the ranks of the Klingons where others have already gone. Is that what the Federation needs right now? Angry Romulans and Remans shoving WMDs down their throats? Would it then be better to ally yourself with them, gain their trust and in doing so gain an opportunity to influence them against using these Thalaron Weapons.
4.) The Federation, while the most popular faction. In terms of conditions are by far the worst off, even compared to the shattered Romulans. Theyre spread too thin. Even for a massive Faction as the Federation. Im shocked that there isnt talk in game through NPCs of Federation Planets starving or finding it hard to deal with disease and illness. As these would be prominent in a time in which the Federation has so much committed to dire situations that surround their borders. Morally speaking, yes the Federation has an obligation to stand against such use of WMDs. And it does put the Federation in a bad light that their current Allies are running around with them loaded up on every Scimater Class. But the Federation, just like during the Dominon War, are in serious trouble and they dont have the luxury of being morally above it all. Their entire infrastructure is at risk of failing and their military might is not only strained but taking a beating it may not be able to recover from. At this point its a smarter move to ignore, or atleast tolerate to a point the WMDs in the arsenals of their Allies. The Federation needs all the help it can get and sticking their nose in the air when theyve been figuratively knocked to their knees would be more harmful then good.
By the way Cryptic. Youre welcome that I went ahead and gave you a better answer to your self created dilemma than your writers probably thought about..if they thought about it at all.. Free of charge.
I'm 99.9% sure that in the Great Bloom mission they DO say that the shields have to be kept up or something because there is still radiation in the system from the Scimitar explosion.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Okay, that explains the Federation. Now explain why the Klingons wouldn't end the alliance.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
/thread