So if I opened a Gravity well inside a planet or rip open subspace with a tricobalt torpedo which BTW is technically illegal by the Federation, but they still use tricobalts anyway even though they know it might cause a subspace rip in space.
Tricobalt devices are triple stage cobalt salted nuclear weapons. Nothing altogether special there. In fact, these could be built today if we had a mind to.
_____________________________________________
"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
The only reason they keep flogging the dead horse is because they dont have anything NEAR the percieved ( wrongly I might add ) abilities of this bird.. And they will continue to keep flogging this dead horse till the little five year olds get their ice cream cones.. not like they dont have enough toys as it is, and some extremely powerful, but NOOOOo,, they have to have our toys too.. gods they TRIBBLE me off..
Tricobalt devices are triple stage cobalt salted nuclear weapons. Nothing altogether special there. In fact, these could be built today if we had a mind to.
Except there's little reason to use a radioisotope-spreading bomb in space. So presumably trek tricobalt is different than what we would refer to as that in our era. Just like dilithium isn't just a simple compound with two atoms of lithium.
As for subspace weapons, we need to remember that terminology is key. But since we don't know the 'official' distinction or definitions, we can't really make the distinctions ourselves. 'Subspace weapons' that were banned clearly include isolytic weapons, but not necessarily every weaponizable use of subspace. Just as 'nuclear weapons' generally refers to explosive ordinance that releases fission or fusion energy, and not nuclear-powered aircraft carriers.
Perhaps there are even some odd quirks in how these weapons are defined. Maybe a prominent power at the time of the conference had been using enhanced tricobalt weapons for some time. They lobbied hard for them not to be included among the unpredictable subspace weapons in the ban. And other powers cared enough about the measure being widely accepted that they didn't include tricobalts, maybe owing to the fact that they don't always have subspace effects or the effects have been widely shown to be self-terminating and stable.
Take a look at my Foundry missions! Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
Why would I trust somebody with this kind of tech when they could turn on me at any time and wipe out an entire Federation planet? Why would the Klingons for that matter? You really think the Federation is stupid enough to risk a another Reman revolt blowing up in their faces like Shinzon's did?
Why would the RR wipe out the federation worlds, what would they gain...hell in Nemesis the Romulans did not even want to wipe out Earth. the Remans are not going to go off and wipe out the Federation there is no reason they don't have beef with the Federation as long as they stay out of their way when it comes to the Tal Shiar, who BTW are the real problem.
The only reason they keep flogging the dead horse is because they dont have anything NEAR the percieved ( wrongly I might add ) abilities of this bird.. And they will continue to keep flogging this dead horse till the little five year olds get their ice cream cones.. not like they dont have enough toys as it is, and some extremely powerful, but NOOOOo,, they have to have our toys too.. gods they TRIBBLE me off..
I'm uh.... not sure what this has to do with my thread here. I don't want anyone's toy. Also, not sure you read about your toy, but its pretty damn near useless due to the length of time to actually activate it.
_____________________________________________
"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
I'm uh.... not sure what this has to do with my thread here. I don't want anyone's toy. Also, not sure you read about your toy, but its pretty damn near useless due to the length of time to actually activate it.
Will you PLEASE explain that to the rest of the federation?? I've been trying to explain that to people all day long and they just dont get the clue. the scimitar is a ship, thats all.. My post was in reply to the two posts above mine that by all rights also had nothing to do with your original post. Dont single me out.
Except there's little reason to use a radioisotope-spreading bomb in space. So presumably trek tricobalt is different than what we would refer to as that in our era.
Iirc, the place I read this from explained it as a weapon more for demolition purposes, rather than combat.
I don't know why they decided to use a "dirty" nuclear weapon for such a purpose, but here we are.
Though, you could also be correct, and that the ST tricobalt device may be significantly different.
_____________________________________________
"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
Will you PLEASE explain that to the rest of the federation?? I've been trying to explain that to people all day long and they just dont get the clue. the scimitar is a ship, thats all.. My post was in reply to the two posts above mine that by all rights also had nothing to do with your original post. Dont single me out.
I did reply to them.
Hey, I'm cool with a renaming. Same function, different name. But the arguments being made are valid. STO lore, ST canon, and so on. This shouldn't have been allowed by CBS under its own seeming criteria for not allowing things.
_____________________________________________
"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
Thalaron is banned by the federation. Its use is depicted as profoundly evil. In the current lore, the federation, romulan republic, and KDF all would (and do, as depicted on nimbus and other story missions) not allow anyone to use this weapon.
Yet players are getting it as a new toy.
The scimitar thalaron burst in ST: Nemesis was designed to destroy all life on earth. This is the weapon we are being given as a bonus to use in space combat. Regularly.
Why not give us VX gas and Sarin while we're at it? Maybe some planetary nuke stations so we can go commit genocide. This is what thalaron is for. This is the equivalent of making a WWII video game and creating a player faction which rounds up jews and puts them in gas chambers. ST: Ethnic cleansing, anyone?
I don't care about the game mechanic. It's a big cone attack that blows up ships. Just name it something else.
Thalaron radiation represents depravity at its most extreme. Giving this to players indicates apathy to the same degree. We're just getting some pretty green lights to shoot at things, even though its purpose is mass killing on a planetary scale.
Does Cryptic even care about the lore anymore?
In the TV shows, it's oft stated an OUNCE of Anti-Matter can destroy and entire planet. Yet no one is going crazy over that aspect of Star Trek. Also, how is using a weapon that was shown as existing in the Star Trek Universe "straying from lore"?
I mean you do realize:
1) Everything in Star Trek is effectively imagined (aka not real; and yes some of it is based on/in real science.)
2) Star Trek Online is a game. (IE again, not real. I have a feeling for example most Call of Duty or HALO players know they're not 'killing' anything real.)
Star Trek is and always has been a form of entertainment. It is not a philosophy or a religion. Get a grip.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Who is wondering how on earth Cryptic/PWE got the ok to make thaleron weapons usable in this game.
No bikini's.
No T5 Connie , Miranda, and NX.
Yet here we are, with the ST equivalent to the Death Star in destruction capability, and that's alright? Forget Cryptic, I think everyone should be a bit annoyed with the guy(s) in charge of okaying this stuff at CBS.
Seriously, did you guys at cryptic just forget t mention this or something? Is that how you got it through?
What do you expect from CBS? Just look at cloaks. We've seen two futures set in the time of the game where the Federation uses cloaks, but CBS doesn't allow cloaks. Unless it's on a Defiant class or Galaxy-X, which which were actually seen using cloak on screen. Even though the Defiant was unique. You can be pretty sure that if CBS allows a game, they will also allow it to do what was seen on screen.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Who is wondering how on earth Cryptic/PWE got the ok to make thaleron weapons usable in this game.
No bikini's.
No T5 Connie , Miranda, and NX.
Yet here we are, with the ST equivalent to the Death Star in destruction capability, and that's alright? Forget Cryptic, I think everyone should be a bit annoyed with the guy(s) in charge of okaying this stuff at CBS.
Seriously, did you guys at cryptic just forget t mention this or something? Is that how you got it through?
Scimitar with Thalaron weapon is canon, was shown in Nemesis and is the weapon system that the Scimitar is designed around.
T5 Connie is not canon, was never shown in any series or movie and has no weapon system it was designed around.
T5 Miranda is not canon, was never shown in any series or movie and has no weapon system it was designed around.
T5 NX is not canon, was never shown in any series or movie and has no weapon system it was designed around.
And bikinis...lets put it this way, there is already enough whining and crying around the sunglasses by the players with races that sunglasses really don't work for. Same thing would have applied to the bikinis. So you want a caitian in a bikini or gorn in a speedo?
Perhaps Cryptic isn't the one trying to get something by CBS? :P
Scimitar with Thalaron weapon is canon, was shown in Nemesis and is the weapon system that the Scimitar is designed around.
T5 is not canon, was never shown in any series or movie and has no weapon system it was designed around.
T5 is not canon, was never shown in any series or movie and has no weapon system it was designed around.
T5 is not canon, was never shown in any series or movie and has no weapon system it was designed around.
Fixed that for you.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Perhaps Cryptic isn't the one trying to get something by CBS? :P
I don't talk to CBS. All I want is consistency, which is what I've wanted the whole time I've played this game. Up until mods decided to ban dozens of users from the forums for the slightest reason, I stayed on that message.
Also, Miranda's were used in almost all the battles of the Dominion War. The Excelsior was as well. The Excelsior got a T5 version, and is on par with a sovereign in-game. The Miranda can't even be reclaimed if you discard it.
_____________________________________________
"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
I don't know I feel Thalaron weapons were eclipsed by the fact they let the far more dangerous adaptive borg technology into federations space.;)
yeahhh, why is there no mention of that.. The feds dont seem to mind getting a Tal Shiar adapted ship do they?? heh. ive been buying keys for a month trying to get one on my romulan but they keep going to starfleet.. I figure one of these days i'll either have one myself or enough lobi to buy the thing.
This probably won't make any of you raging nerds feel any better, but I can all but guarantee you that you won't see this weapon deployed against other players, at least not effectively.
It takes twelve seconds for the pulse to charge - an eternity of game time during which even my Bortasqu' can easily move out of the firing angle, open up on the Scamitar and take it out before the pulse goes off.
And its too ponderous to use against most PvE targets, except the Crystaline Entity (against which thalaron energy would have only limited effect) or Borg heavies like Tac Cubes, Gateways and Unimatrix ships.
So really the only time you'll see it used is when you're saving the galaxy from the Borg.
And I can easily imagine the Romulan Captain in question muttering something like "I swore I'd never use this device, but they leave me no choice..." before ordering the Thalaron weapon to be deployed.
Does that help soothe anybody's nerdrage? If not Cryptic has a lollipop for you to suck on.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
1) Everything in Star Trek is effectively imagined (aka not real; and yes some of it is based on/in real science.)
Oh, and some folks really need to figure out how to separate facts and reality from science fiction.
I suppose I shouldn't have framed my original post about in-game lore.
My primary objection is that creating a game in which you give players the kill switch for a holocaust/genocide-creating weapon which they can use any time they want just seems absolutely stupid, and something that the game industry should frown upon.
Yes, everything in ST lore is science-fiction. I would say, however, that this creates even more of an ethical problem around thalaron, as thalaron was something that was built from the ground up as the ultimate act of depravity.
The very idea of thalaron is that it is something which is completely ethically wrong. The mere thought of it causes abject revulsion.
And this is how I feel about the thought that players can run around with something which exists not as a technology misused for evil, but a technology invented by authors as something which represents the most evil, destructive thing that could be done.
You just can't do that.
It'd be like making the death star a playable ship and rewarding players for using the superlaser.
It'd be like making sarin online and rewarding players for using chemical weapons.
I don't seem to remember this much vile hatred for any other weapon system like the Hargh'peng or Genesis, or the deadly virus used against the Borg.
I don't seem to remember this much vile repulsion towards murdering an entire station of scientists in cold blood.
I think I'll just chalk this up in the category with the Klingons mindlessly slaying thousands of poor defenseless tribbles.
Oh, and some folks really need to figure out how to separate facts and reality from science fiction.
Heres reality the way i see it..
Tomorrow morning a whole bunch of us are going to be buying Scimitars. we are then going to equip them and test them, possibly in deep space encounters, possibly in stfs. then we're going to get serious and start using them to grind ESTFs with, and many of us are going to look at any federation ship we see in the ESTF and decide to take the leaver penalty rather than help that player out. thats my reality.
Comments
Tricobalt devices are triple stage cobalt salted nuclear weapons. Nothing altogether special there. In fact, these could be built today if we had a mind to.
"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
U.S.S. Weatherlight
My character Tsin'xing
Except there's little reason to use a radioisotope-spreading bomb in space. So presumably trek tricobalt is different than what we would refer to as that in our era. Just like dilithium isn't just a simple compound with two atoms of lithium.
As for subspace weapons, we need to remember that terminology is key. But since we don't know the 'official' distinction or definitions, we can't really make the distinctions ourselves. 'Subspace weapons' that were banned clearly include isolytic weapons, but not necessarily every weaponizable use of subspace. Just as 'nuclear weapons' generally refers to explosive ordinance that releases fission or fusion energy, and not nuclear-powered aircraft carriers.
Perhaps there are even some odd quirks in how these weapons are defined. Maybe a prominent power at the time of the conference had been using enhanced tricobalt weapons for some time. They lobbied hard for them not to be included among the unpredictable subspace weapons in the ban. And other powers cared enough about the measure being widely accepted that they didn't include tricobalts, maybe owing to the fact that they don't always have subspace effects or the effects have been widely shown to be self-terminating and stable.
Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Its called customer feedback. I can either make my own post, or reply in someone else's.
Thanks for bumping mine though
"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
U.S.S. Weatherlight
Why would the RR wipe out the federation worlds, what would they gain...hell in Nemesis the Romulans did not even want to wipe out Earth. the Remans are not going to go off and wipe out the Federation there is no reason they don't have beef with the Federation as long as they stay out of their way when it comes to the Tal Shiar, who BTW are the real problem.
I'm uh.... not sure what this has to do with my thread here. I don't want anyone's toy. Also, not sure you read about your toy, but its pretty damn near useless due to the length of time to actually activate it.
"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
U.S.S. Weatherlight
All i need now is Omega Particle weapons and im sorted!
Alright I'll bite....Why so serious?:D
Will you PLEASE explain that to the rest of the federation?? I've been trying to explain that to people all day long and they just dont get the clue. the scimitar is a ship, thats all.. My post was in reply to the two posts above mine that by all rights also had nothing to do with your original post. Dont single me out.
It's the Internets. Internets are serious business.
Iirc, the place I read this from explained it as a weapon more for demolition purposes, rather than combat.
I don't know why they decided to use a "dirty" nuclear weapon for such a purpose, but here we are.
Though, you could also be correct, and that the ST tricobalt device may be significantly different.
"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
U.S.S. Weatherlight
I did reply to them.
Hey, I'm cool with a renaming. Same function, different name. But the arguments being made are valid. STO lore, ST canon, and so on. This shouldn't have been allowed by CBS under its own seeming criteria for not allowing things.
"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
U.S.S. Weatherlight
In the TV shows, it's oft stated an OUNCE of Anti-Matter can destroy and entire planet. Yet no one is going crazy over that aspect of Star Trek. Also, how is using a weapon that was shown as existing in the Star Trek Universe "straying from lore"?
I mean you do realize:
1) Everything in Star Trek is effectively imagined (aka not real; and yes some of it is based on/in real science.)
2) Star Trek Online is a game. (IE again, not real. I have a feeling for example most Call of Duty or HALO players know they're not 'killing' anything real.)
Star Trek is and always has been a form of entertainment. It is not a philosophy or a religion. Get a grip.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
What do you expect from CBS? Just look at cloaks. We've seen two futures set in the time of the game where the Federation uses cloaks, but CBS doesn't allow cloaks. Unless it's on a Defiant class or Galaxy-X, which which were actually seen using cloak on screen. Even though the Defiant was unique. You can be pretty sure that if CBS allows a game, they will also allow it to do what was seen on screen.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Scimitar with Thalaron weapon is canon, was shown in Nemesis and is the weapon system that the Scimitar is designed around.
T5 Connie is not canon, was never shown in any series or movie and has no weapon system it was designed around.
T5 Miranda is not canon, was never shown in any series or movie and has no weapon system it was designed around.
T5 NX is not canon, was never shown in any series or movie and has no weapon system it was designed around.
And bikinis...lets put it this way, there is already enough whining and crying around the sunglasses by the players with races that sunglasses really don't work for. Same thing would have applied to the bikinis. So you want a caitian in a bikini or gorn in a speedo?
Perhaps Cryptic isn't the one trying to get something by CBS? :P
Fixed that for you.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
I don't talk to CBS. All I want is consistency, which is what I've wanted the whole time I've played this game. Up until mods decided to ban dozens of users from the forums for the slightest reason, I stayed on that message.
Also, Miranda's were used in almost all the battles of the Dominion War. The Excelsior was as well. The Excelsior got a T5 version, and is on par with a sovereign in-game. The Miranda can't even be reclaimed if you discard it.
"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
U.S.S. Weatherlight
yeahhh, why is there no mention of that.. The feds dont seem to mind getting a Tal Shiar adapted ship do they?? heh. ive been buying keys for a month trying to get one on my romulan but they keep going to starfleet.. I figure one of these days i'll either have one myself or enough lobi to buy the thing.
I don't seem to remember this much vile repulsion towards murdering an entire station of scientists in cold blood.
I think I'll just chalk this up in the category with the Klingons mindlessly slaying thousands of poor defenseless tribbles.
Oh, and some folks really need to figure out how to separate facts and reality from science fiction.
I don't care how long you've been playing. I only care about how you play.
And remember to follow the rules.
It takes twelve seconds for the pulse to charge - an eternity of game time during which even my Bortasqu' can easily move out of the firing angle, open up on the Scamitar and take it out before the pulse goes off.
And its too ponderous to use against most PvE targets, except the Crystaline Entity (against which thalaron energy would have only limited effect) or Borg heavies like Tac Cubes, Gateways and Unimatrix ships.
So really the only time you'll see it used is when you're saving the galaxy from the Borg.
And I can easily imagine the Romulan Captain in question muttering something like "I swore I'd never use this device, but they leave me no choice..." before ordering the Thalaron weapon to be deployed.
Does that help soothe anybody's nerdrage? If not Cryptic has a lollipop for you to suck on.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
I suppose I shouldn't have framed my original post about in-game lore.
My primary objection is that creating a game in which you give players the kill switch for a holocaust/genocide-creating weapon which they can use any time they want just seems absolutely stupid, and something that the game industry should frown upon.
Yes, everything in ST lore is science-fiction. I would say, however, that this creates even more of an ethical problem around thalaron, as thalaron was something that was built from the ground up as the ultimate act of depravity.
The very idea of thalaron is that it is something which is completely ethically wrong. The mere thought of it causes abject revulsion.
And this is how I feel about the thought that players can run around with something which exists not as a technology misused for evil, but a technology invented by authors as something which represents the most evil, destructive thing that could be done.
You just can't do that.
It'd be like making the death star a playable ship and rewarding players for using the superlaser.
It'd be like making sarin online and rewarding players for using chemical weapons.
Heres reality the way i see it..
Tomorrow morning a whole bunch of us are going to be buying Scimitars. we are then going to equip them and test them, possibly in deep space encounters, possibly in stfs. then we're going to get serious and start using them to grind ESTFs with, and many of us are going to look at any federation ship we see in the ESTF and decide to take the leaver penalty rather than help that player out. thats my reality.
There is a purpose to making multiple threads :P
"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
U.S.S. Weatherlight
Yeah they get merged and eventually ignored.