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Guest Blog: Celebrating Diversity in Star Trek

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  • jjumetleyjjumetley Member Posts: 281 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The LGBT Community is not indoctrinating people. Rather, the radical right wing evangelical community is no longer able to sell their ridiculous and intolerant beliefs, because rational people no longer want to buy it.
    You're wrong. Rational people are in the middle where extremes wage a war. They are categorized as "backward" by one side and as "immoral" by the other. One group is in your face with their sexuality while the other would see homosexuals in cages. You know what? I don't like either of these options. When I'm on the street I don't give a damn what your orientation is and all the more I'm not interested in labelling people and limiting their rights. If we are to be equal there should be no special treatment whatsoever - be it positive or negative.
  • robeasomrobeasom Member Posts: 1,911 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Started reading this thread as I thought it would a interesting diversion from work and after getting to page 22 I had to stop as I can't believe the amount of people who are saying this is hurting the kids and it should not be allowed. Or that it should be kept behind closed doors.

    If the Stonewall Fleet want to have a pride event let them. If you don't like it don't attend it's as simple as that. I respect what there doing but i'm sure the author would not be happy with the amount of disrespect in this thread.

    I won't be attending the event but I have a reason which has nothing to do with prejudice and I would attend to show my support even though I'm a hetrosexual but laptop is in for a repair.

    But I wish the fleet luck on this event
    NO TO ARC
    Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
    Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
    Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • baronvonhellerbaronvonheller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    jjumetley wrote: »
    You're wrong. Rational people are in the middle where extremes wage a war. They are categorized as "backward" by one side and as "immoral" by the other. One group is in your face with their sexuality while the other would see homosexuals in cages. You know what? I don't like either of these options. When I'm on the street I don't give a damn what your orientation is and all the more I'm not interested in labelling people and limiting their rights. If we are to be equal there should be no special treatment whatsoever - be it positive or negative.

    Have you not been paying attention to anything I've said? Please allow me to refresh your memory:
    I agree, nobody should receive "special" treatment.

    I have no idea who invented this straw man argument, but, that is precisely what it is. The whole idea that the LGBT community wants "special" rights or that there is some "hidden agenda", is absurd. I don't, and none of my fellow LGBT friends do either, that I know of.

    I think what bothers people and leads to accusations of us having a "hidden TRIBBLE agenda" or wanting "special" rights is that we are no longer standing idly by while being victimized by the more ignorant and ideologically driven members of society. Those days are long gone.

    For the record, here's the majority of my TRIBBLE agenda and the "special" treatment I am seeking:

    I want my fellow LGBT brothers and sisters to stop being murdered and assaulted simply for who they are;

    I want to see an end to LGBT Teen suicides caused by bullying simply because of who they are;

    I want the civil aspects of the my marriage to my Husband to be recognized Federally, equal to Heterosexual marriages and I couldn't care less if any Church offers their blessings. It's a civil matter, and we are equal citizens;

    So, if that qualifies as me wanting "special" treatment, then I suppose I am guilty as charged, lol.
  • eisenw0lfeisenw0lf Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    jerran75 wrote: »
    I assume from your statement that when a guy at work shows you pictures of his wife and kids or a woman you know shows you pictures of her husband and kids, you "kindly" tell them that you don't appreciate them shoving their sexuality all up in your face like that. Otherwise, you're just a hypocrite.


    This is the worst comparison I've ever encountered. You are also not doing yourself a favour in calling someone 'hypocrite' who is essentially on your side. This constant 'only my opinion is valid, else you are intolerant and/or a bigot' must stop.
  • jjumetleyjjumetley Member Posts: 281 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Have you not been paying attention to anything I've said? Please allow me to refresh your memory:
    I guess it is you who hasn't been paying attention because I agree 100% with what you say in THAT quote and I guess I didn't object to any of that in my previous post.
  • mattachinemattachine Member Posts: 510 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    All this madness is why I decided to just not care anymore. If you're TRIBBLE so what you aint special. Same goes for your skin color, no matter what shade you are you aint special. As long as my way to work isnt obstructed by a parade and I dont got a guilt message shoved in my face im fine.

    Everyone is at the same level as average, no better no worse. No one group should be treated like TRIBBLE, but no one group should get special treatment either.

    The LGBT community are not, I repeat, NOT looking for special treatment. All we want is to be treated exactly the same as everyone else.
    game5pock wrote: »
    Kinda sad that TRIBBLE Germany had to be brought into this discussion.



    Which is why Cryptic shouldn't endorse one groups will.

    Yes, what the TRIBBLE did is sad. It should never be forgotten. But the same must be said about everyone else responsible for genocide. No matter if they killed Jews, Congolese, Indigenous people of Northern Europe, North+South America, Africa and Australia. No matter the skin colour, ethnicity or religion of the perpetrator and the victims. I myself is Caucasian, middle-aged and from a Christian family. That gives me the right to say that I think we have done a lot of evil in this world both because we're white and religious. Sadly some of us still do horrible things. Like banning condoms which would help in not spreading sexually transmitted diseases.
    The thesis of the blog was not about, "tolerance for someone sexuality [sic]".

    The thesis of the blog was about the history of Star Trek and how, by depicting a future where maligned groups were accepted in society, Star Trek was a catalyst for positive social change.

    No matter what the intent of the blog was, I can see how people jump to the conclusion it is about LGBT. That said, the LGBT community is an including community. We include people no matter their hair, eye, skin colour. No matter what country they are from. No matter what their sexuality is (heterosexuals are also welcome). No matter if they have a religion or not. All that is required is that they do not exclude us or treat us differently then anyone else.

    On an other topic not related to the above quote. Most religious or rather all religions I know about are about exclusion, if someone doesn't have the right religion they'll burn in hell or what ever sad place the non-believers end up in , in that religion. Something a lot of these extremists are, like the Westboro Baptist Church, more then happy to point out right in the face of those that do not want anything to do with them. I wouldn't mind them if they thought I'm going to burn in hell if they kept it to themselves, but many can't.

    As for thinking that the LGBT community has it all good these days. Sadly that is not true. Children still commit suicide due to bullying over who they are. People are still thrown in prison for it. People are still killed or mutilated for it.
  • baronvonhellerbaronvonheller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    jjumetley wrote: »
    I guess it is you who hasn't been paying attention because I agree 100% with what you say in THAT quote and I guess I didn't object to any of that in my previous post.
    jjumetley wrote: »
    You're wrong. Rational people are in the middle where extremes wage a war. They are categorized as "backward" by one side and as "immoral" by the other. One group is in your face with their sexuality while the other would see homosexuals in cages. You know what? I don't like either of these options. When I'm on the street I don't give a damn what your orientation is and all the more I'm not interested in labelling people and limiting their rights. If we are to be equal there should be no special treatment whatsoever - be it positive or negative.


    Perhaps I misinterpreted what you were saying?

    You seem to imply that the LGBT Community's push for EQUAL rights is "in your face" and crosses some line? I completely disagree with that statement.

    You also seem to imply that we are seeking special treatment, which is also false, as my quoted post demonstrates
  • daemonhelddaemonheld Member Posts: 287 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    squonkman wrote: »
    Hitler himself was TRIBBLE (not that there's anything wrong with that).

    And so was Alexander The Great.


    Say what? Can you link ANYTHING that can prove this?

    Hitler was married to Eva Braun
  • rickeyredshirtrickeyredshirt Member Posts: 1,059 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    mattachine wrote: »
    Yes, what the TRIBBLE did is sad. It should never be forgotten. But the same must be said about everyone else responsible for genocide. No matter if they killed Jews, Congolese, Indigenous people of Northern Europe, North+South America, Africa and Australia. No matter the skin colour, ethnicity or religion of the perpetrator and the victims. I myself is Caucasian, middle-aged and from a Christian family. That gives me the right to say that I think we have done a lot of evil in this world both because we're white and religious. Sadly some of us still do horrible things. Like banning condoms which would help in not spreading sexually transmitted diseases.

    Wow, sounds like a lot of 'white guilt'.
    daemonheld wrote: »

    Say what? Can you link ANYTHING that can prove this?

    Hitler was married to Eva Braun

    Here
  • daemonhelddaemonheld Member Posts: 287 Arc User
    edited June 2013

    How cute... :rolleyes:

    Now, how about actually addressing the question?

    From here:

    Merl's notes further confirm other post-war interviews with Hitler's caretakers that he was "hysterical," a "megalomaniac," and suffered from several ailments, notably flatulence for which he took drugs to stop passing gas. He also suggested that Hitler had Parkinson's disease.

    A previous Alexander auction included notes detailing how Hitler was shot up with bull TRIBBLE. The new notes add that bull TRIBBLE shots were used to regulate his level of testosterone. But proving that his doctors used many experimental treatments on Hitler was Merl's mention that the fuhrer was also receiving female hormones. Those can be used to treat various ailments, but are dangerous and often interfere with male sexual functions.

    Looks, to me, more like his mental/sexual state were seriously compromised by injecting bull TRIBBLE (for testosterone) and female hormones, among a plethora of other drugs, in typical TRIBBLE fashion. Meaning: they had no idea what they were actually doing... and the chemical imbalances caused "taint" any reasonable "assumption" of Hilter's sexual orientation...

    Jolan'tru
  • bluegrassgeekbluegrassgeek Member Posts: 360 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Society these days...
    What month is white history month?

    The other eleven.
    When is straight-pride month?
    Again, all the damn time.
    Can I just be American-American?
    If you want to identify that way, go for it. No one is stopping you.
    I seem to be getting lost in the shuffle!

    Only because you aren't seeing the forest for the trees.
    We are becoming more and more of an exclusionist society each and every day, and now it is bleeding into my gaming which is truly appalling. The ones who are telling you this is a celebration of 'IDIC' do not realize they are being exclusionists themselves. They will say, "no we aren't, you are free to come join us" to which my response would be "no thanks, I will wait for the 'We are all people' celebration".

    This is what amuses me. There's nothing exclusionist here at all. Minority groups reminding the majority that they exist and are people too does nothing to diminish the majority.
    ____
    Keep calm, and continue firing photon torpedoes.
  • bluegrassgeekbluegrassgeek Member Posts: 360 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    eisenw0lf wrote: »
    This is the worst comparison I've ever encountered. You are also not doing yourself a favour in calling someone 'hypocrite' who is essentially on your side. This constant 'only my opinion is valid, else you are intolerant and/or a bigot' must stop.

    It's only "the worst" because you're missing the point. A straight couple holding hands and kissing in the park is no problem, but a same-sex couple doing the same is "shoving their sexuality in your face." That's the hypocracy behind the whole "in my face" argument.
    ____
    Keep calm, and continue firing photon torpedoes.
  • baronvonhellerbaronvonheller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    It's only "the worst" because you're missing the point. A straight couple holding hands and kissing in the park is no problem, but a same-sex couple doing the same is "shoving their sexuality in your face." That's the hypocracy behind the whole "in my face" argument.

    Yes, this.
  • rickeyredshirtrickeyredshirt Member Posts: 1,059 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The other eleven.

    Again, all the damn time.

    Wow, you sound kind of upset. Once again, I must have missed the memo on that one. Probably explains why I haven't noticed that I have been celebrated and catered to during that time. :rolleyes:
    If you want to identify that way, go for it. No one is stopping you.

    I do but it never have I seen society behave in such a dividing fashion than now. Everyone wants the convenience of sticking a label on you, just like those who have labelled me a bigot for simply speaking my opinion.
    Only because you aren't seeing the forest for the trees.

    So now you are going to dictate to me what my life experience has been? How rude.
    This is what amuses me. There's nothing exclusionist here at all. Minority groups reminding the majority that they exist and are people too does nothing to diminish the majority.

    My opinion differs, I'll just leave it at that. Have a good one. ;)
  • eisenw0lfeisenw0lf Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    It's only "the worst" because you're missing the point. A straight couple holding hands and kissing in the park is no problem, but a same-sex couple doing the same is "shoving their sexuality in your face." That's the hypocracy behind the whole "in my face" argument.

    Read my first post again. I was refering to 'Pride' events which in my region (Europe) usually consist of hundreds of half naked people parading across cities and rubbing their bodies against each other. This is the kind of in-your-face-sexuality I was talking of. Are you really going to compare this to photographs and couples in a park? I have absolutely no issues with those, regardless wether they are heterosexual or homosexual. Couples are also usually dressed up and don't tend to block entire streets by the hundreds.
  • hrisvalarhrisvalar Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Okay, so, we were keeping this for the next election, for the whole skirting term limits and remarkably one-sided electoral results that look nothing like the polls business, but we decided to release it a little earlier. Seemed like it was needed now. So, without further ado (?), Aennik Okeg, president of this United Federation (not to be mistaken for a certain humanitarian and peacekeeping armada I could mention), presents the opening salvo of the get the **** over it campaign.

    I trust we'll have your votes by 2413.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Reave
  • bluegrassgeekbluegrassgeek Member Posts: 360 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Wow, you sound kind of upset. Once again, I must have missed the memo on that one. Probably explains why I haven't noticed that I have been celebrated and catered to during that time. :rolleyes:

    I don't know where you got the idea that I'm "upset." Thats apparently your own idea that someone who disagrees with you is "upset."
    I do but it never have I seen society behave in such a dividing fashion than now. Everyone wants the convenience of sticking a label on you, just like those who have labelled me a bigot for simply speaking my opinion.

    Seriously? Read about the 1960s if you want to see real division in society.

    Oh, and you're free to have a bigoted opinion. Just don't act shocked when people then call you bigoted.
    So now you are going to dictate to me what my life experience has been? How rude.

    What? Now you're not even making sense. I pointed out that you're not seeing how history & society are dominated by straight white men, because you're focusing on the instances where other people would like to be recognized as well.
    My opinion differs, I'll just leave it at that. Have a good one. ;)

    Works for me.
    ____
    Keep calm, and continue firing photon torpedoes.
  • bluegrassgeekbluegrassgeek Member Posts: 360 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    eisenw0lf wrote: »
    Read my first post again. I was refering to 'Pride' events which in my region (Europe) usually consist of hundreds of half naked people parading across cities and rubbing their bodies against each other. This is the kind of in-your-face-sexuality I was talking of. Are you really going to compare this to photographs and couples in a park? I have absolutely no issues with those, regardless wether they are heterosexual or homosexual. Couples are also usually dressed up and don't tend to block entire streets by the hundreds.

    Ah, I see where the disconnect is. Yes, there are plenty of people who see any acknowledgement of homosexuality as "in (their) face." Hence my comment about couples in the park.

    And my understanding was that Europe was pretty relaxed about sex in general. If you're only referring to parades like that, I agree with you. Straight or TRIBBLE, that's just crass. It's not a basis for proclaiming that all mentions of homosexuality are "forced" on you, though.
    ____
    Keep calm, and continue firing photon torpedoes.
  • rickeyredshirtrickeyredshirt Member Posts: 1,059 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I don't know where you got the idea that I'm "upset." Thats apparently your own idea that someone who disagrees with you is "upset."

    Well, you are the one who resorted to language. :(
    Seriously? Read about the 1960s if you want to see real division in society.

    I ask the people I know who lived the 60s what they think all the time, they are saying now is worse. More types of people are affected and it's spread across the globe.
    Oh, and you're free to have a bigoted opinion. Just don't act shocked when people then call you bigoted.

    Here we go with the labels and name-calling. The true sign of a simpleton who cannot have their fragile eggshell mind tampered with.
  • baronvonhellerbaronvonheller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I ask the people I know who lived the 60s what they think all the time, they are saying now is worse. More types of people are affected and it's spread across the globe.

    Societal changes are always a messy business. Those on the wrong side of history more often than not prefer to view change as negatively "divisive" or "in your face", than face up to the changing social mores.

    This is not to say that a divide does not exist. Clearly, there always does. But, just because the changes occurring in society do not meet with your approval does not mean they are wrong or that progress should be slowed down to give you time to catch up with the new realities.

    One metric to look at is the acceptance of Same Sex Marriage in the U.S. Major changes in Societal opinions often move at a glacial pace. That is not the case with Same Sex marriage any longer.

    Don't take my word on it though. Same Sex Marriage Polls

    Even TRIBBLE Marriage Opponents Think the Debate is all but over
  • rickeyredshirtrickeyredshirt Member Posts: 1,059 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Societal changes are always a messy business. Those on the wrong side of history more often than not prefer to view change as negatively "divisive" or "in your face", than face up to the changing social mores.

    This is not to say that a divide does not exist. Clearly, there always does. But, just because the changes occurring in society do not meet with your approval does not mean they are wrong or that progress should be slowed down to give you time to catch up with the new realities.

    One metric to look at is the acceptance of Same Sex Marriage in the U.S. Major changes in Societal opinions often move at a glacial pace. That is not the case with Same Sex marriage any longer.

    Don't take my word on it though. Same Sex Marriage Polls

    Even TRIBBLE Marriage Opponents Think the Debate is all but over

    I am totally in the dark on how you moved the topic to same-sex marriage in the US. I am actually all for it FWIW. If someone else makes you happy, go for it, be with them.
  • baronvonhellerbaronvonheller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I am totally in the dark on how you moved the topic to same-sex marriage in the US. I am actually all for it FWIW. If someone else makes you happy, go for it, be with them.

    Well, thanks for your support. I simply used Same Sex marriage to illustrate the point that forward progress is being made and will eventually make threads like this one unnecessary.
  • logicalspocklogicalspock Member Posts: 836 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    After reading a lot of vitriol on here, which I can only infer is due to the fact that a single paragraph mentions a fleet's celebration of pride, if I were Brandon, in the future, I would simply close all such threads to prevent comment.

    It seems like the simplest solution.
  • rickeyredshirtrickeyredshirt Member Posts: 1,059 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Well, thanks for your support. I simply used Same Sex marriage to illustrate the point that forward progress is being made and will eventually make threads like this one unnecessary.

    So I support civil rights and liberties. Why am I outspoken against this? This is a celebration of the Stonewall Riots is it not? A violent demonstration from community. I don't think there are too many games that would support an event commemorating the Watts Riots of the 60s or the LA Riots of the 90s, which were in lieu of civil rights in their own respect. Violence and further segregation (or a celebration of) are not the answer if we want the progress that I think we are both alluding to.
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    This content has been removed.
  • chriscox1701chriscox1701 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    what I can't wait to see is if WBC somehow finds a way to protest in-game. would be funny to see little shuttles with there signs painted on!
    Vice Admiral Christopher "C Two" Jackson Fee-Cox
    U.S.S. Chronos Heavy Escort Carrier
    =/\=
    jexsamx wrote: »
    Why does God need a starship?
    WBC: "To protest space gays!"
  • jexsamxjexsamx Member Posts: 2,803 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    what I can't wait to see is if WBC somehow finds a way to protest in-game. would be funny to see little shuttles with there signs painted on!

    Why does God need a starship?

    WBC: "To protest space gays!"
  • starbase2012starbase2012 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I have always agreed with Rodenberry's Vision of the future. and also loved trek due to the fact it has made me feel at home. I believe in Diversity and not becuase im TRIBBLE or Wiccan but because it seems the Natural balance in all things! Star Trek has always helped to Show the Dark side of the Culture of our society and exspress other ways of thinking. For That and all that Gene Rodenberry has given us he will forever be a Idol to me and forever in my heart!
  • chriscox1701chriscox1701 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    jexsamx wrote: »
    Why does God need a starship?

    WBC: "To protest space gays!"



    OMG I love it!
    Vice Admiral Christopher "C Two" Jackson Fee-Cox
    U.S.S. Chronos Heavy Escort Carrier
    =/\=
    jexsamx wrote: »
    Why does God need a starship?
    WBC: "To protest space gays!"
  • logicalspocklogicalspock Member Posts: 836 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    So I support civil rights and liberties. Why am I outspoken against this? This is a celebration of the Stonewall Riots is it not? A violent demonstration from community. I don't think there are too many games that would support an event commemorating the Watts Riots of the 60s or the LA Riots of the 90s, which were in lieu of civil rights in their own respect. Violence and further segregation (or a celebration of) are not the answer if we want the progress that I think we are both alluding to.

    I do not normally support violent resistance in a democratic society, but if you studies history, I think that you can appreciate that sometimes it is necessary. In the 1930's in Germany, Jews were increasingly being targeted by German authorities and anti-Semitic hoodlums and I would hardly condemn them if, after being attacked en-mass they chose to retaliate with violent demonstrations against the thugs who attacked them, both those in and out of uniform.

    The Stonewall riots were remarkably similar. In New York, as in much of the United States, homosexual conduct was outlawed. The Stonewall riots were sparked by a violent police raid in which police attempted to arrest patrons simply for being at a TRIBBLE-oriented bar; some were physically battered, a few sexually assaulted by officers.

    The Stonewall riots were not a violent group of thugs using a legitimate protest as an excuse to cause wanton destruction. It was a case of violence directed toward a minority group by the authorities being met with forceful resistance. To paraphrase Martin Luther King, riots are the voices of the unheard.
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