There are times when violence against authority is justified. The use of police-state tactics against an otherwise peaceable portion of the citizenry is one such instance, which is what caused the Stonewall riot in the first place. At the same point in History, the NYPD was looking the other way regarding REAL violent criminals-remember, this was during the period where America's urban cores were dangerously decayed and crime-ridden, yet the NYPD chose to focus on an inoffensive, nonviolent subculture engaged in what amounted to a victimless crime, rather than dealing with the very REAL threats to citizens.
Admittedly, it's easier in the 1950's, 60's and 70's (esp. late 60's early 70's) to go after gays and enforce blue-laws, than it is to confront armed gangs of violent sociopaths that are turning your city into a war zone funded by blackmarket dollars from sales of narcotics, sex, and good ole fashioned Robbery and violence.
As a civil libertarian, I have to say that the Stonewall riots were the rule of natural consequences in effect-the Police and City Government in this instance were acting more like the Westboro Baptist Church, than Peace Officers, which is at it's core the very essence of anti-liberty, and a fundamental betrayal of the social contract.
Precisely. Thank you for providing an eloquent and succinct description of the reasons behind the Stonewall riots. Unfortunately, the reason for the riots will fall on deaf ears.
I am not old enough to have been at Stonewall. But, I have an older friend who lived in New York at the time. He was not a part of the initial spontaneous riots.But after he heard about them, he and his partner at the time joined in the subsequent ones a couple days later.
He was one of the many TRIBBLE men that was at one time or another grabbed by a police officer on the way out of the bar and taken in a squad car to a private location, beaten, and forced to perform oral sex.
Incidentally, the Stonewall Inn was owned by the mafia, so you can imagine that the patrons received only the finest of service in the establishment to begin with.
My crew is all mismatched if you would call it that. I have male, female, and races of all kinds on each my ship. And I use them all as I rotate them as I do ground missions. Even in space they swap out at times for different ships.
I hadn't wrote out or acted out relationships for them. Perhaps in the future I need to do a back story on them all.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
My crew is all mismatched if you would call it that. I have male, female, and races of all kinds on each my ship. And I use them all as I rotate them as I do ground missions. Even in space they swap out at times for different ships.
I hadn't wrote out or acted out relationships for them. Perhaps in the future I need to do a back story on them all.
I don't worry about such things since I am constantly having to execute my weapons officers for blowing up freighters in pi canis.
This is the worst comparison I've ever encountered. You are also not doing yourself a favour in calling someone 'hypocrite' who is essentially on your side. This constant 'only my opinion is valid, else you are intolerant and/or a bigot' must stop.
LOL someone else on this very thread compared TRIBBLE pride to Islamic Jihad and you find my question the worst comparison!? Wow, talk about blinders.
And, nice Dodge, BTW. Is it a Hemi? You didn't even address the statement, just went on a counter offensive. And I only said you would be a hypocrite if you don't see straight people talking about their relationships as pushing their sexuality in your face. Since you didn't address that directly and just dodged it, then yes, I am calling you a hypocrite.
"If your conscience is bothering you, you should sooth it with the knowledge that you may have just saved the ENTIRE Alpha Quadrant. And all it cost was the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal, & the self-respect of one Starfleet officer. I don't know about you, but I call that a bargain." - Elim Garak
After reading a lot of vitriol on here, which I can only infer is due to the fact that a single paragraph mentions a fleet's celebration of pride
How many times does this need to be said? Its not the event that is the problem, its the fact that the company posted an endorsement of a political nature on the site. Whether that was their actual intent or not doesn't matter. Thats a no-no, especially considering its a tos violation to do so. and I would be careful about making those accusations again considering how many others were willing to throw insults around and belittle those who did not support this.
if I were Brandon, in the future, I would simply close all such threads to prevent comment.
Thats called censorship. Bordering on illegal censorship when it involves something that violates their own tos. That aside, it sounds an awful lot like you're saying 'if you don't agree with us you need to shut up and if you won't you need to be prevented from saying anything at all'
Originally Posted by bluegrassgeek View Post
The other eleven.
Again, all the damn time.
More lies and insults then?
Originally Posted by bluegrassgeek View Post
Oh, and you're free to have a bigoted opinion. Just don't act shocked when people then call you bigoted.
and more insults.
The LGBT Community is not indoctrinating people.
Considering every single other politically active group does, I find that statement somewhat questionable. You would be hard pressed to find one anywhere that does not to some degree, attempt to indoctrinate people. That being said, you do realize that saying this and then saying 'but the radical right wing and their ridiculous and intolerant beliefs....' is blatant indoctrination. Right? You're saying 'no no we aren't indoctrinating anyone, its the other guys that don't agree with us that are doing that'
So think twice before saying that again
The LGBT community are not, I repeat, NOT looking for special treatment.
I'm willing to bet good money that there are elements of it that are.
Originally Posted by squonkman View Post
Hitler himself was TRIBBLE (not that there's anything wrong with that).
No he wasn't. Several of his early associates were. Aside from having been married, he was involved in relationships with several women during his life. Thats just one of the propaganda stories you're repeating. Up there with the 'he had one ********' and 'he flew to south america' claims
I myself is Caucasian, middle-aged and from a Christian family. That gives me the right to say that I think we have done a lot of evil in this world both because we're white and religious
Speak for yourself and leave your ignorant anti-white ramblings out of it. Telling people they should feel guilty for being white is the most offensive thing said on this thread so far.
Diversity? Looks more like a gaypride thing to me really... events like this shouldn't be hosted in a video game, you'll put people like that in a bad daylight and you'll just attract trolls and flamers to the event.
Besides, it kinda reeks of a favour between the community manager (Branflakes) and his old fleet (Stonewall Fleet). Some people might see this as favouritism... just a polite warning to all involved parties about behaviour like that. Nothing good comes of it.
Erm...Brandon was in this fleet? Seriously? That sounds like a very clear conflict of interest then
As you can see - the author concentrates on that one aspect of diversity. Not to mention the six colourful stripes in the leading image. Mentioning other aspects of diversity is only a pretext in the light of the above.
Indeed
Not saying that I'm shooting down Stonewall Fleet for what they are doing. The LGBT diversity thing is right up their alley, and whether or not I agree with their FLEET event is not an issue in the slightest. My issue is that STO is promoting it while making zero effort to promote/recognize any other type of diversity in the game.
This. and if its true that Brandon was a member of this fleet, again, its a conflict of interest for having put this blog up at all
Original portion of this tidbit was:
"If "Star Trek" was all about tolerance, why are 'human' Starfleet officers not allowed to wear religious artifacts?
For the same reasons that military personnel aren't allowed. There is a dress code
The vibe I'm getting from this is one of opportunistic "damage control" from the powers that be, what with all the backlash after the discovery of a less than "PC" past to their so called "spokesperson" not so long ago.
Indeed
I liked the part where he stated that the forum rules constituted a contract and that PWE had a legal obligation to follow its own rules.
A TOS agreement is, by law, a contract. Look it up. It is the users legal responsibility to adhere to it or no longer use the service, it is the companies legal responsibility to enforce it. and they do have a legal requirement to follow their own tos agreement. They can't legally hold you to something that they themselves violate. Look it up. That is why companies have tos agreements, to protect themselves and the users when offering a service.
Wow, Lazarus. That's quite an angry post there.
Accusing me of being 'angry' now? Another attack. A baseless one at that
You also mixed up several different people's comments and lumped them all together.
No I didn't. I simply didn't add in the name part of it because it takes longer to do so
Erm...Brandon was in this fleet? Seriously? That sounds like a very clear conflict of interest then
Sadly, I don't think conflict of interest is anything new in STO; Devs play favourites all the time. Some fleets have gotten armloads of commodities from devs, some fleets have had private giveaways of lockbox ships given by the devs. Some fleets have been told to "have fun" when they were exploiting millions of dilithium out of SB24 when it was bugged. It pays to be on the devs good side.
The article is the highlight for the log-in as news. You don't know what's in it until you read it and this is a shock to read. That's force fed.
Personally, if after the first couple of sentences or at some point I find the article to be not of my liking...
I Don't Read Anymore of it.
Then again, you might have somebody standing behind you with a gun pointed at your head, till ya finish reading the whole article...
:rolleyes:
Funny how one person's 'Politics', is another's 'Life Style'...
So many gray areas in this world...
Good thing the STO community is perfectly black & white...
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Sadly, I don't think conflict of interest is anything new in STO; Devs play favourites all the time. Some fleets have gotten armloads of commodities from devs, some fleets have had private giveaways of lockbox ships given by the devs. Some fleets have been told to "have fun" when they were exploiting millions of dilithium out of SB24 when it was bugged. It pays to be on the devs good side.
To be fair...
The Starbase 24 thingy, was open to everybody till they fixed it...
It just so happened that a couple of specific Fleets discovered it first and passed the word around to their members.
I got in on the loot and was not a member of any particular Fleet at the time.
And I would imagine that just about any game has had moments where the operators of the game play 'favorites' at any given whim...
Picking out Cryptic Dev's specifically for this kind of questionable behavior, is kinda ingenuous.
One just hopes that They either are more cautious or less open, when doing so in the future.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Considering every single other politically active group does, I find that statement somewhat questionable. You would be hard pressed to find one anywhere that does not to some degree, attempt to indoctrinate people. That being said, you do realize that saying this and then saying 'but the radical right wing and their ridiculous and intolerant beliefs....' is blatant indoctrination. Right? You're saying 'no no we aren't indoctrinating anyone, its the other guys that don't agree with us that are doing that'
So think twice before saying that again
Um, explain what you mean by "indoctrinate". Do you mean the actual definition of teaching to accept a set of beliefs uncritically? Or do you mean "converting" people?
If it's the former, it should be obvious that the Civil Rights of others, that cause no harm to others, should be accepted uncritically. Taking that, you cannot believe that the "Radical Right" is... right, when so many wars, and so much harm is done in the name of "Religious Right".
The article is the highlight for the log-in as news. You don't know what's in it until you read it and this is a shock to read. That's force fed.
Personally, if after the first couple of sentences or at some point I find the article to be not of my liking...
I Don't Read Anymore of it.
Then again, you might have somebody standing behind you with a gun pointed at your head, till ya finish reading the whole article...
:rolleyes:
Funny how one person's 'Politics', is another's 'Life Style'...
So many gray areas in this world...
Good thing the STO community is perfectly black & white...
Funny how one persons 'Politics', is another's 'Life' ...
There.. fixed it for you.
My "lifestyle" is to try to make enough money to cover the cost of my rent, utilities, and get food to last til the end of the month... with a little cash left over for the fun things in life, like.. going to a movie ever now and then... playing cool games with *generally* cool people... taking care of my soon-to-be husband, and our two dogs.
Such a different "lifestyle" than other people live... I know... :rolleyes:
(this is not a dig at you davny... it's just that referring to my "life" as a lifestyle, even when making a point, I feel has to be addressed. There IS no TRIBBLE lifestyle, any more than there is a straight lifestyle..)
I'm seeing the same arguments over, & over again about why people have such a problem with this. To those pulling out every single argument they can think of to shut this down, I have 3 words for you:
Get Over It
The Devs are well aware of what they can & can't do. If they're highlighting this community event, they're certainly within their right to. There are PLENTY of companies out there who've chosen to accept everyone for who & what they are. Cryptic & PWE have the right to do the same. If you have a problem with that, LEAVE.
The "what about the children" line appears to come from players who seem to forget about half-naked women with green skin running around doing the sexy dance. Not to mention the NUMEROUS bigoted, racial comments that take place in zone chat. Yet, I've never seen any real backlash about that happening (gee, I wonder why). And to top it off, a poster actually used the "anti-white" line ... OMG, I laughed so hard. Next, someone's going to actually use the "anti-racism=anti-white" nonsense ... to which, I'm going to fall out of my chair laughing. FYI to those who actually think using that line makes some sort of point, Stormfront's calling wanting their monthly dues.
The poster of the blog was pointing out that Star Trek has, unintentionally or not, stood for diversity & wanted to highlight an event his fleet is throwing. I see NOTHING wrong with that, considering we're talking about an event about diversity & acceptance. I believe EVERYONE has the right to be themselves, without fear of oppression. I don't care what color your skin is, what God you pray to (or if you pray to no God), what sex you are, or if you're attracted to guys or girls ... if you're a decent person, I'll party with you.
I saw nothing stating this event was mandatory. In fact, I'm seeing more support of this event then not. You don't like diversity, or (to paraphrase those against this) "a TRIBBLE pride event," then don't attend. Too easy.
"If your conscience is bothering you, you should sooth it with the knowledge that you may have just saved the ENTIRE Alpha Quadrant. And all it cost was the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal, & the self-respect of one Starfleet officer. I don't know about you, but I call that a bargain." - Elim Garak
Thats called censorship. Bordering on illegal censorship when it involves something that violates their own tos. That aside, it sounds an awful lot like you're saying 'if you don't agree with us you need to shut up and if you won't you need to be prevented from saying anything at all'
You are correct; it would be censorship. The STO forums have never allowed people to post uncensored nor do companies generally have any legal obligation to do so. Furthermore, Cryptic is not in any way legally obligated to follow their own TOS except in cases where their customers may incur pecuniary damages that can be proved in court, such as canceling a paying customer's account in a case where their terms of service was not violated.
By closing down commentary on blogs such as this, nobody would be preventing you from, "saying anything at all." They simply would not be paying money to provide people a forum for people to create bigoted comments which they would then have to pay their moderators to remove. People would still be free to express their opinion uncensored on their own website, through a megaphone outside Cryptic Studios, by placing a giant sign in their front yard, or whatever other method they would prefer.
Just to be clear, many places, newspaper blogs especially, simply disallow comments on articles that they know will bring out a lot of vitriolic and hateful violations of their commentary editorial policy, violations which they will then have to remove.
A TOS agreement is, by law, a contract. Look it up. It is the users legal responsibility to adhere to it or no longer use the service, it is the companies legal responsibility to enforce it. and they do have a legal requirement to follow their own tos agreement. They can't legally hold you to something that they themselves violate. Look it up. That is why companies have tos agreements, to protect themselves and the users when offering a service.
Click-through agreements most certainly are not contracts, at least in sense of an express, bilateral contract such as the one you sign to obtain a home loan. They are often considered by the courts to be a type of adhesion contract, which does not have the same legal power as a traditional contract. They are similar to a legal disclaimer at a dry cleaner that reads, "not responsible for lost items".
Also, if you actually read these agreements, a lot of their contents are likely to be considered by a judge to be unconscionable contracts and therefore unenforceable. You will also notice that they tend to solely place restrictions on the customer, not on the company providing the service.
They exist mainly for the purpose of being used as evidence in court if they get sued, for instance, for canceling an account for violation of the terms of service. They are specifically designed so that they are of little or no use in court to a plaintiff who is suing them.
Think about it: why would a company write a term of service that limits their actions in such a way as to potentially open themselves to legal liability? They do not. The click-through agreements are created by lawyers who want to try to diminish their liability as much as possible. Luckily for customers, a lot of the assertions made in the TOS are probably unenforceable.
Speak for yourself and leave your ignorant anti-white ramblings out of it. Telling people they should feel guilty for being white is the most offensive thing said on this thread so far.
Seriously? All I'm saying is that white people are not superior to anyone, they are just people. Just like everyone else. And that they should not boast about their religion or anything, as it all comes from decades of wars and exploiting of colonies and unimaginable amounts of lost lives.
I'm not saying that Caucasians should be ashamed or feel guilty. Just I hope the stereotype of Jewish guilt is just that and that no one thinks today that it is their fault that Christ was killed, if he even existed. If you do feel that, I can't stop you. But informing that you should not throw bricks when you live in a glass house is not putting guilt on anyone.
So that the attitude or belief that it's alight to oppress others, due to my religion say I can, or that a genocide in America or Africa isn't worth mentioning in history books because it didn't happen in Europe, that kind of thing is what I'm against. Neither religion or politics, or anyone else for that matter have the right to oppress others from being treated equal.
No human being is worth more then anyone else, all life is precious (even animal life), everyone have the right to be treated the same way. No matter what their skin colour, hair colour, eye colour, body size, disability, gender, if they prefer the same gender, both genders or the other gender. Everyone should be equal under the law and be treated the same in society.
Because you're heterosexual (I'm guessing that you are, as I don't know you) you can't see how much heterosexuality is up in people's faces. From movies & TV, music, advertisements, in newspapers, on the streets, in the public transports. You're used to seeing it. It is your kind of sexuality so you no longer register it. Or you might even like seeing it. But if you write down every time you see someone heterosexual holding hands, hugging, kissing, on dates, wearing skimpy clothes, rubbing against each other dancing, standing in provocative poses in underwear. Then do the same for all the LGBT instances of this you see, only then will you realize who puts their sexuality in people's faces.
As for putting sexuality in people's faces, in my own opinion, I don't care. As long as they are not having sex in front of me I don't mind. That goes for all man on woman, man on man, woman on woman sex. Keep that in the bedrooms or at least in a private place.
As for kissing, holding hands and so on, go for it. Doesn't bother me at all.
Ah, I see where the disconnect is. Yes, there are plenty of people who see any acknowledgement of homosexuality as "in (their) face." Hence my comment about couples in the park.
And my understanding was that Europe was pretty relaxed about sex in general. If you're only referring to parades like that, I agree with you. Straight or TRIBBLE, that's just crass. It's not a basis for proclaiming that all mentions of homosexuality are "forced" on you, though.
I was only referring to these parades. The homosexual people I know want to be taken serious and these parades and their display of naked flesh and fetishes are just extremely counterproductive in this regard.
I have no idea what these events look like in your region however, I'm only familiar with the ones in Europe.
LOL someone else on this very thread compared TRIBBLE pride to Islamic Jihad and you find my question the worst comparison!? Wow, talk about blinders.
And, nice Dodge, BTW. Is it a Hemi? You didn't even address the statement, just went on a counter offensive. And I only said you would be a hypocrite if you don't see straight people talking about their relationships as pushing their sexuality in your face. Since you didn't address that directly and just dodged it, then yes, I am calling you a hypocrite.
Since you are obviously very quick to judge others and incapable of reading my other post in which I explain myself, I am calling you an idiot.
I myself is Caucasian, middle-aged and from a Christian family. That gives me the right to say that I think we have done a lot of evil in this world both because we're white and religious.
Whoa, That's got to be one of the most ignorant, bigoted remarks I've seen, and I've seen a lot of trolls. Well, to be fair, you did use "I think" in your assertion, so you left room for your own doubt and error.
But, you certainly aren't granted a right to speak for an entire race, or a religion, simply because you are of either or both. You can speak for yourself, but you shouldn't speak for me or others like me, because you don't know me, nor what I have done.
Man I hope this isn't what STO is trying to be about, because I think I will look elsewhere.
Whoa, That's got to be one of the most ignorant, bigoted remarks I've seen, and I've seen a lot of trolls. Well, to be fair, you did use "I think" in your assertion, so you left room for your own doubt and error.
But, you certainly aren't granted a right to speak for an entire race, or a religion, simply because you are of either or both. You can speak for yourself, but you shouldn't speak for me or others like me, because you don't know me, nor what I have done.
Man I hope this isn't what STO is trying to be about, because I think I will look elsewhere.
I do not speak for anyone else. I'm not only stating my own personal view either. But I'm entitled to my opinion. Looking at the history-books and at what actually happened, I've formed that opinion. I am not saying anyone should should feel guilty for something that happened a long time ago. But if we do not acknowledge what we have done through the ages, we will not take responsibility and learn from it.
I know belief is a strong thing in some people. And they have every right to have that belief. As long as they do not in any way or form expect others to live in accordance to it or shove it down the throats on others, trying to convert them. Not even at home. Children should themselves when they are adult enough to decide themselves form their own opinion if they think there is a God or which religion suits them or none at all. The same with body mutilation and clothing. If they want to cover up in clothes or cut off or pierce bodyparts, or not shave or cut their hair, let them, when they are adults. It is their lives and their bodies.
I was only referring to these parades. The homosexual people I know want to be taken serious and these parades and their display of naked flesh and fetishes are just extremely counterproductive in this regard.
I have no idea what these events look like in your region however, I'm only familiar with the ones in Europe.
It looks a lot like other celebrations such as Mardi Gras and Carnival. You rarely hear too many people claiming those celebrations are counterproductive to Catholicism.
And I would imagine that just about any game has had moments where the operators of the game play 'favorites' at any given whim...
Picking out Cryptic Dev's specifically for this kind of questionable behavior, is kinda ingenuous.
One just hopes that They either are more cautious or less open, when doing so in the future.
Err, "plenty of dev teams do it" and "they should be more sneaky about it" aren't the takeaways here.
I do not speak for anyone else. I'm not only stating my own personal view either. But I'm entitled to my opinion. Looking at the history-books and at what actually happened, I've formed that opinion. I am not saying anyone should should feel guilty for something that happened a long time ago. But if we do not acknowledge what we have done through the ages, we will not take responsibility and learn from it.
Seriously you shouldn't concentrate exclusively on European cultures if your goal is to make yourself a picture of the attrocities in human history. Yes, I said culture. Historians don't make their judgements based on skincolor because this particular trait does not influence our behaviour in any way. I have two university degrees in history and I can also assure you that the history of Europe and her colonies is not more bloodthirsty then the one of other cultures. Europeans tend to have a higher bodycount due to their higher technological advancement compared to most other regions, but the pure will of murdering or enslaving a great number of people out of greed, envy, religious beliefs, ideology, racism, etc. can be found in the history of every region and culture on this planet and is in some cases still practiced.
It looks a lot like other celebrations such as Mardi Gras and Carnival. You rarely hear too many people claiming those celebrations are counterproductive to Catholicism.
I see, but you are probably referring to the South American version of Carnival because here in Europe people tend to go fully dressed to these events (dressed in costumes, but not in those revealing south american ones). Well, Carnival is also usually not concidered counterproductive to Catholicism because people in Europe stopped regarding it as a Catholic event a long time ago and it is now equally attended by people of all religions and beliefs.
Looking at the history-books and at what actually happened, I've formed that opinion.
The history-books? No, It more looks like you are just regurgitating what you hear from pop culture.
If you were well versed in history, you would know that brutality, warfare, oppression and slavery are systemic to many different cultures of different ethnicities, and none of them are exempt.
There are no shining knights of a race amongst mankind that could so be judged on a whole as to be pure, nor could the same be said in condemnation of an entire race. The thought really couldn't and shouldn't be entertained anyways since we are all individuals.
The history-books? No, It more looks like you are just regurgitating what you hear from pop culture.
If you were well versed in history, you would know that brutality, warfare, oppression and slavery are systemic to many different cultures of different ethnicities, and none of them are exempt.
There are no shining knights of a race amongst mankind that could so be judged on a whole as to be pure, nor could the same be said in condemnation of an entire race. The thought really couldn't and shouldn't be entertained anyways since we are all individuals.
First of all, there is only ONE human race. All other races on this planet are some sort of animal too. But I think none are as dangerous as we are.
Just because I don't make a long list with which cultures have killed the most in the world, I prefer to focus on the one that is in the top of that list. Why? Because many think that it is so much better then other cultures. It isn't. More advanced technology yes. Have I said that other cultures haven't done the same thing? No. I do say that I think we have been the worst. At least if we count how many have died and suffered due to our expansion over the world. Polluting and consuming resources more and more as we go.
If there's only one race, why do people make such a big deal out of diversity and being different?
In the words of Jack Nicolson before the Martians killed him, "Can't we all just get along?".
Also can a mod close this thread already, it amazes me that it's still open.
Hate Speech
You may not create posts and/or private messages that allude to, contain language, comments, references, links, symbols, terms and/or imagery about and/or promote and/or otherwise support, in any manner whether directly or indirectly, hatred, discrimination and/or denigrations based on or related to race, ethnicity, religion, sect, color, national origin, age, gender, familial status, sexual orientation, disability status, veteran status, genetic information, etc.
I do say that I think we have been the worst. At least if we count how many have died and suffered due to our expansion over the world. Polluting and consuming resources more and more as we go
.
So wait, are you making long lists or aren't you? *Spock is still perplexed*
And what evidence cited on such a conclusion?
I,,Let me tell you this first,,I am a female in real life as well as in-game,,I have been a gamer for some years now,,and after seeing this post here,,I have become an even more ide hard fan of Star Trek Online,,,It gladdens my heart to see such diversity in a game,,Sure this game has tech problems once in a while,,but this game you must admit has brought everyone together and we have all become part of one minnd and one equality.It doesn't matter what we are in so called real life,,but here on Star Trek Online we can all be part of a grend vision of harmony and peace and we can show the world how things Should be done.We can be a beacon for others on how humanity needs to act,,This game forces you to think not about ethic or other divisons in life that has been tearing humanity apart for thousands of years,,but how it is uniting all of us in a common goal of peace..ALL of us are equal no matter who you are or what religon you are,or orientation you are, or what color you are.So when you are playing Star Trek Online,,EVERYONE can stand a little taller and feel supreme unity and finesse in being such an important individueal who just happens to be a part of this great continum called LIFE known as STAR TREK ONLINE .
I have read a fair few pages of this post, and I do understand and do see what everyone's concern is about regarding both this post and the guest blog that was done.
But I as a TRIBBLE person, don't view this in my opinion as a concern, Star Trek Online is a video game for where people and communities alike can come together and have fun in flying, shooting, conversing and blowing up things for hours and hours without end.
Nothing at all in this blog, in this game, or this forum post is suggestion that this pride event is a religious or political push of annoying or shoving things into everyone's face.
Correct that this game isn't rated M, but this game is rate T with as follows, "Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling and/or infrequent use of strong language."
This said, parents and consumer were either aware or knew that "suggestive themes" which is what the "Pride" event is, a "suggestive theme".
And as someone as said before, this is my personal opinion.
I'm sick of hearing stuff like this in games. Especially when a CSM/GM/Whatever-he-is-called was a member of said fleet.
There's many people who are of different backgrounds, race, orientation, etc. who play games to have fun and mix with other people AND IT WORKS FINE. Why do you need to promote something like this in a bloody game?
Comments
Precisely. Thank you for providing an eloquent and succinct description of the reasons behind the Stonewall riots. Unfortunately, the reason for the riots will fall on deaf ears.
I am not old enough to have been at Stonewall. But, I have an older friend who lived in New York at the time. He was not a part of the initial spontaneous riots.But after he heard about them, he and his partner at the time joined in the subsequent ones a couple days later.
He was one of the many TRIBBLE men that was at one time or another grabbed by a police officer on the way out of the bar and taken in a squad car to a private location, beaten, and forced to perform oral sex.
Incidentally, the Stonewall Inn was owned by the mafia, so you can imagine that the patrons received only the finest of service in the establishment to begin with.
I hadn't wrote out or acted out relationships for them. Perhaps in the future I need to do a back story on them all.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I don't worry about such things since I am constantly having to execute my weapons officers for blowing up freighters in pi canis.
LOL someone else on this very thread compared TRIBBLE pride to Islamic Jihad and you find my question the worst comparison!? Wow, talk about blinders.
And, nice Dodge, BTW. Is it a Hemi? You didn't even address the statement, just went on a counter offensive. And I only said you would be a hypocrite if you don't see straight people talking about their relationships as pushing their sexuality in your face. Since you didn't address that directly and just dodged it, then yes, I am calling you a hypocrite.
what anyones real-world sexuality has to do with star trek online is beyond me.
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How many times does this need to be said? Its not the event that is the problem, its the fact that the company posted an endorsement of a political nature on the site. Whether that was their actual intent or not doesn't matter. Thats a no-no, especially considering its a tos violation to do so. and I would be careful about making those accusations again considering how many others were willing to throw insults around and belittle those who did not support this.
Thats called censorship. Bordering on illegal censorship when it involves something that violates their own tos. That aside, it sounds an awful lot like you're saying 'if you don't agree with us you need to shut up and if you won't you need to be prevented from saying anything at all'
More lies and insults then?
and more insults.
Considering every single other politically active group does, I find that statement somewhat questionable. You would be hard pressed to find one anywhere that does not to some degree, attempt to indoctrinate people. That being said, you do realize that saying this and then saying 'but the radical right wing and their ridiculous and intolerant beliefs....' is blatant indoctrination. Right? You're saying 'no no we aren't indoctrinating anyone, its the other guys that don't agree with us that are doing that'
So think twice before saying that again
I'm willing to bet good money that there are elements of it that are.
No he wasn't. Several of his early associates were. Aside from having been married, he was involved in relationships with several women during his life. Thats just one of the propaganda stories you're repeating. Up there with the 'he had one ********' and 'he flew to south america' claims
Speak for yourself and leave your ignorant anti-white ramblings out of it. Telling people they should feel guilty for being white is the most offensive thing said on this thread so far.
Erm...Brandon was in this fleet? Seriously? That sounds like a very clear conflict of interest then
Indeed
This. and if its true that Brandon was a member of this fleet, again, its a conflict of interest for having put this blog up at all
For the same reasons that military personnel aren't allowed. There is a dress code
Indeed
A TOS agreement is, by law, a contract. Look it up. It is the users legal responsibility to adhere to it or no longer use the service, it is the companies legal responsibility to enforce it. and they do have a legal requirement to follow their own tos agreement. They can't legally hold you to something that they themselves violate. Look it up. That is why companies have tos agreements, to protect themselves and the users when offering a service.
Accusing me of being 'angry' now? Another attack. A baseless one at that
No I didn't. I simply didn't add in the name part of it because it takes longer to do so
Sadly, I don't think conflict of interest is anything new in STO; Devs play favourites all the time. Some fleets have gotten armloads of commodities from devs, some fleets have had private giveaways of lockbox ships given by the devs. Some fleets have been told to "have fun" when they were exploiting millions of dilithium out of SB24 when it was bugged. It pays to be on the devs good side.
Personally, if after the first couple of sentences or at some point I find the article to be not of my liking...
I Don't Read Anymore of it.
Then again, you might have somebody standing behind you with a gun pointed at your head, till ya finish reading the whole article...
:rolleyes:
Funny how one person's 'Politics', is another's 'Life Style'...
So many gray areas in this world...
Good thing the STO community is perfectly black & white...
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
To be fair...
The Starbase 24 thingy, was open to everybody till they fixed it...
It just so happened that a couple of specific Fleets discovered it first and passed the word around to their members.
I got in on the loot and was not a member of any particular Fleet at the time.
And I would imagine that just about any game has had moments where the operators of the game play 'favorites' at any given whim...
Picking out Cryptic Dev's specifically for this kind of questionable behavior, is kinda ingenuous.
One just hopes that They either are more cautious or less open, when doing so in the future.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Wait... you say that, but your signature is a link to "sexy Orion female characters? Seriously? Seriously?
Um, explain what you mean by "indoctrinate". Do you mean the actual definition of teaching to accept a set of beliefs uncritically? Or do you mean "converting" people?
If it's the former, it should be obvious that the Civil Rights of others, that cause no harm to others, should be accepted uncritically. Taking that, you cannot believe that the "Radical Right" is... right, when so many wars, and so much harm is done in the name of "Religious Right".
Jolan'tru
Funny how one persons 'Politics', is another's 'Life' ...
There.. fixed it for you.
My "lifestyle" is to try to make enough money to cover the cost of my rent, utilities, and get food to last til the end of the month... with a little cash left over for the fun things in life, like.. going to a movie ever now and then... playing cool games with *generally* cool people... taking care of my soon-to-be husband, and our two dogs.
Such a different "lifestyle" than other people live... I know... :rolleyes:
(this is not a dig at you davny... it's just that referring to my "life" as a lifestyle, even when making a point, I feel has to be addressed. There IS no TRIBBLE lifestyle, any more than there is a straight lifestyle..)
Get Over It
The Devs are well aware of what they can & can't do. If they're highlighting this community event, they're certainly within their right to. There are PLENTY of companies out there who've chosen to accept everyone for who & what they are. Cryptic & PWE have the right to do the same. If you have a problem with that, LEAVE.
The "what about the children" line appears to come from players who seem to forget about half-naked women with green skin running around doing the sexy dance. Not to mention the NUMEROUS bigoted, racial comments that take place in zone chat. Yet, I've never seen any real backlash about that happening (gee, I wonder why). And to top it off, a poster actually used the "anti-white" line ... OMG, I laughed so hard. Next, someone's going to actually use the "anti-racism=anti-white" nonsense ... to which, I'm going to fall out of my chair laughing. FYI to those who actually think using that line makes some sort of point, Stormfront's calling wanting their monthly dues.
The poster of the blog was pointing out that Star Trek has, unintentionally or not, stood for diversity & wanted to highlight an event his fleet is throwing. I see NOTHING wrong with that, considering we're talking about an event about diversity & acceptance. I believe EVERYONE has the right to be themselves, without fear of oppression. I don't care what color your skin is, what God you pray to (or if you pray to no God), what sex you are, or if you're attracted to guys or girls ... if you're a decent person, I'll party with you.
I saw nothing stating this event was mandatory. In fact, I'm seeing more support of this event then not. You don't like diversity, or (to paraphrase those against this) "a TRIBBLE pride event," then don't attend. Too easy.
You are correct; it would be censorship. The STO forums have never allowed people to post uncensored nor do companies generally have any legal obligation to do so. Furthermore, Cryptic is not in any way legally obligated to follow their own TOS except in cases where their customers may incur pecuniary damages that can be proved in court, such as canceling a paying customer's account in a case where their terms of service was not violated.
By closing down commentary on blogs such as this, nobody would be preventing you from, "saying anything at all." They simply would not be paying money to provide people a forum for people to create bigoted comments which they would then have to pay their moderators to remove. People would still be free to express their opinion uncensored on their own website, through a megaphone outside Cryptic Studios, by placing a giant sign in their front yard, or whatever other method they would prefer.
Just to be clear, many places, newspaper blogs especially, simply disallow comments on articles that they know will bring out a lot of vitriolic and hateful violations of their commentary editorial policy, violations which they will then have to remove.
Click-through agreements most certainly are not contracts, at least in sense of an express, bilateral contract such as the one you sign to obtain a home loan. They are often considered by the courts to be a type of adhesion contract, which does not have the same legal power as a traditional contract. They are similar to a legal disclaimer at a dry cleaner that reads, "not responsible for lost items".
Also, if you actually read these agreements, a lot of their contents are likely to be considered by a judge to be unconscionable contracts and therefore unenforceable. You will also notice that they tend to solely place restrictions on the customer, not on the company providing the service.
They exist mainly for the purpose of being used as evidence in court if they get sued, for instance, for canceling an account for violation of the terms of service. They are specifically designed so that they are of little or no use in court to a plaintiff who is suing them.
Think about it: why would a company write a term of service that limits their actions in such a way as to potentially open themselves to legal liability? They do not. The click-through agreements are created by lawyers who want to try to diminish their liability as much as possible. Luckily for customers, a lot of the assertions made in the TOS are probably unenforceable.
Seriously? All I'm saying is that white people are not superior to anyone, they are just people. Just like everyone else. And that they should not boast about their religion or anything, as it all comes from decades of wars and exploiting of colonies and unimaginable amounts of lost lives.
I'm not saying that Caucasians should be ashamed or feel guilty. Just I hope the stereotype of Jewish guilt is just that and that no one thinks today that it is their fault that Christ was killed, if he even existed. If you do feel that, I can't stop you. But informing that you should not throw bricks when you live in a glass house is not putting guilt on anyone.
So that the attitude or belief that it's alight to oppress others, due to my religion say I can, or that a genocide in America or Africa isn't worth mentioning in history books because it didn't happen in Europe, that kind of thing is what I'm against. Neither religion or politics, or anyone else for that matter have the right to oppress others from being treated equal.
No human being is worth more then anyone else, all life is precious (even animal life), everyone have the right to be treated the same way. No matter what their skin colour, hair colour, eye colour, body size, disability, gender, if they prefer the same gender, both genders or the other gender. Everyone should be equal under the law and be treated the same in society.
Because you're heterosexual (I'm guessing that you are, as I don't know you) you can't see how much heterosexuality is up in people's faces. From movies & TV, music, advertisements, in newspapers, on the streets, in the public transports. You're used to seeing it. It is your kind of sexuality so you no longer register it. Or you might even like seeing it. But if you write down every time you see someone heterosexual holding hands, hugging, kissing, on dates, wearing skimpy clothes, rubbing against each other dancing, standing in provocative poses in underwear. Then do the same for all the LGBT instances of this you see, only then will you realize who puts their sexuality in people's faces.
As for putting sexuality in people's faces, in my own opinion, I don't care. As long as they are not having sex in front of me I don't mind. That goes for all man on woman, man on man, woman on woman sex. Keep that in the bedrooms or at least in a private place.
As for kissing, holding hands and so on, go for it. Doesn't bother me at all.
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I was only referring to these parades. The homosexual people I know want to be taken serious and these parades and their display of naked flesh and fetishes are just extremely counterproductive in this regard.
I have no idea what these events look like in your region however, I'm only familiar with the ones in Europe.
Since you are obviously very quick to judge others and incapable of reading my other post in which I explain myself, I am calling you an idiot.
Whoa, That's got to be one of the most ignorant, bigoted remarks I've seen, and I've seen a lot of trolls. Well, to be fair, you did use "I think" in your assertion, so you left room for your own doubt and error.
But, you certainly aren't granted a right to speak for an entire race, or a religion, simply because you are of either or both. You can speak for yourself, but you shouldn't speak for me or others like me, because you don't know me, nor what I have done.
Man I hope this isn't what STO is trying to be about, because I think I will look elsewhere.
I do not speak for anyone else. I'm not only stating my own personal view either. But I'm entitled to my opinion. Looking at the history-books and at what actually happened, I've formed that opinion. I am not saying anyone should should feel guilty for something that happened a long time ago. But if we do not acknowledge what we have done through the ages, we will not take responsibility and learn from it.
I know belief is a strong thing in some people. And they have every right to have that belief. As long as they do not in any way or form expect others to live in accordance to it or shove it down the throats on others, trying to convert them. Not even at home. Children should themselves when they are adult enough to decide themselves form their own opinion if they think there is a God or which religion suits them or none at all. The same with body mutilation and clothing. If they want to cover up in clothes or cut off or pierce bodyparts, or not shave or cut their hair, let them, when they are adults. It is their lives and their bodies.
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It looks a lot like other celebrations such as Mardi Gras and Carnival. You rarely hear too many people claiming those celebrations are counterproductive to Catholicism.
Err, "plenty of dev teams do it" and "they should be more sneaky about it" aren't the takeaways here.
Corruption/favoritism has no place in MMOs.
Seriously you shouldn't concentrate exclusively on European cultures if your goal is to make yourself a picture of the attrocities in human history. Yes, I said culture. Historians don't make their judgements based on skincolor because this particular trait does not influence our behaviour in any way. I have two university degrees in history and I can also assure you that the history of Europe and her colonies is not more bloodthirsty then the one of other cultures. Europeans tend to have a higher bodycount due to their higher technological advancement compared to most other regions, but the pure will of murdering or enslaving a great number of people out of greed, envy, religious beliefs, ideology, racism, etc. can be found in the history of every region and culture on this planet and is in some cases still practiced.
I see, but you are probably referring to the South American version of Carnival because here in Europe people tend to go fully dressed to these events (dressed in costumes, but not in those revealing south american ones). Well, Carnival is also usually not concidered counterproductive to Catholicism because people in Europe stopped regarding it as a Catholic event a long time ago and it is now equally attended by people of all religions and beliefs.
Yes, you are when you declare this : " I think we have done a lot of evil in this world both because we're white and religious"
You are attempting to speak for people other than yourself. People that you don't know, nor will ever know. That's pretty ignorant.
The history-books? No, It more looks like you are just regurgitating what you hear from pop culture.
If you were well versed in history, you would know that brutality, warfare, oppression and slavery are systemic to many different cultures of different ethnicities, and none of them are exempt.
There are no shining knights of a race amongst mankind that could so be judged on a whole as to be pure, nor could the same be said in condemnation of an entire race. The thought really couldn't and shouldn't be entertained anyways since we are all individuals.
No I am not. I said "I think we have" I did not say: that it is what everyone thinks that we have.
First of all, there is only ONE human race. All other races on this planet are some sort of animal too. But I think none are as dangerous as we are.
Just because I don't make a long list with which cultures have killed the most in the world, I prefer to focus on the one that is in the top of that list. Why? Because many think that it is so much better then other cultures. It isn't. More advanced technology yes. Have I said that other cultures haven't done the same thing? No. I do say that I think we have been the worst. At least if we count how many have died and suffered due to our expansion over the world. Polluting and consuming resources more and more as we go.
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In the words of Jack Nicolson before the Martians killed him, "Can't we all just get along?".
Also can a mod close this thread already, it amazes me that it's still open.
You aren't? Are you trying to troll me now?
Then who is "We" ? Do you have a sock puppet or something?
You are referring to white folks whom take to religion and speaking for all of them and their actions by saying they are evil.
You are just trying to burn bridges to that comment now.
Spock would raise his eyebrow to this. Both of these cannot be valid.
The burden of proof falls on you, especially if you are going to go around making bigoted insensitive comments about people you don't know.
So wait, are you making long lists or aren't you? *Spock is still perplexed*
And what evidence cited on such a conclusion?
I,,Let me tell you this first,,I am a female in real life as well as in-game,,I have been a gamer for some years now,,and after seeing this post here,,I have become an even more ide hard fan of Star Trek Online,,,It gladdens my heart to see such diversity in a game,,Sure this game has tech problems once in a while,,but this game you must admit has brought everyone together and we have all become part of one minnd and one equality.It doesn't matter what we are in so called real life,,but here on Star Trek Online we can all be part of a grend vision of harmony and peace and we can show the world how things Should be done.We can be a beacon for others on how humanity needs to act,,This game forces you to think not about ethic or other divisons in life that has been tearing humanity apart for thousands of years,,but how it is uniting all of us in a common goal of peace..ALL of us are equal no matter who you are or what religon you are,or orientation you are, or what color you are.So when you are playing Star Trek Online,,EVERYONE can stand a little taller and feel supreme unity and finesse in being such an important individueal who just happens to be a part of this great continum called LIFE known as STAR TREK ONLINE .
But I as a TRIBBLE person, don't view this in my opinion as a concern, Star Trek Online is a video game for where people and communities alike can come together and have fun in flying, shooting, conversing and blowing up things for hours and hours without end.
Nothing at all in this blog, in this game, or this forum post is suggestion that this pride event is a religious or political push of annoying or shoving things into everyone's face.
Correct that this game isn't rated M, but this game is rate T with as follows, "Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling and/or infrequent use of strong language."
This said, parents and consumer were either aware or knew that "suggestive themes" which is what the "Pride" event is, a "suggestive theme".
And as someone as said before, this is my personal opinion.
So, I have a couple questions:
1. Do you actually want to see other events that celebrate diversity or is this just another attempt to specifically shut down this particular event?
2. What type of diversity is it precisely that you would like to celebrate?
3. How has the promotion of this event harmed you?
There's many people who are of different backgrounds, race, orientation, etc. who play games to have fun and mix with other people AND IT WORKS FINE. Why do you need to promote something like this in a bloody game?