There's no "abusing" this console, it's just using it. You can't help how it functions, it just does. And it does it a little too well.
If you'll notice, the general consensus is calling for stuff to be buffed - things like Tachyon Beam, Tyken's Rift, and Engineers in general. Why? Because while "nerfs" were called for some things, they were taken wayyyyy too far into the realm of uselessness. Engineers, on the other hand, just became obsolete due to stupid design choices... aka, the Rep system.
To be fair, Tachyon Beam was never good to begin with. It had horrible base numbers, and Flow Capacitors didn't buff them in any meaningful way. Power Insulators just exacerbated the underlying problem.
I still have to ask: is this vulnerable in any way? Can it be SNB'ed, can it be beaten/gotten around using skilling and layouts?
IF it CAN (even if it requires a weird build to do it), then it's not OP imho, it shouldn't get a Nerf. If it can't then there's a problem that actually needs to be addressed.
So...for y'all whom are running Valdore consoles...have you been killed in PvP, if so, HOW were you taken down?
lol... Of course it can. Viral Matrix, Drop Weapon Power to 0, Boarding Party (As if anyone uses that), Disables, dropping Shield Power to 0, use shield ignoring attacks, and of course staying where your opponent can fire the least number of weapons at you or blowing them up before they have a chance to even begin firing.
It is not unstoppable nor is it so powerful as to make a ship using it perfectly Godly. The problem is that if it procs enough at the right times it can make the ship in question extremely difficult to kill in both PvE and PvP. It takes a little luck but unless the RNG hates you for some reason it is fairly likely that if you build your boat to shoot a LOT then you WILL score the shield heals in time to save yourself.
There's no "abusing" this console, it's just using it. You can't help how it functions, it just does. And it does it a little too well.
If you'll notice, the general consensus is calling for stuff to be buffed - things like Tachyon Beam, Tyken's Rift, and Engineers in general. Why? Because while "nerfs" were called for some things, they were taken wayyyyy too far into the realm of uselessness. Engineers, on the other hand, just became obsolete due to stupid design choices... aka, the Rep system.
I think the developers tried fixing some of the imbalance with some of the new LoR doffs and the fleet elite items as far as Sci toons go. Unfortunately, if the sci skills aren't buffed back up a bit, it doesn't go far enough.
Yeah that console makes HPS numbers on escorts better/around the same as the best dedicated healers lol. (4000 hps), although hps dosen't tell all, resist and regen have quite a share, as well as spike vs overtime heals.
right, problem being, nobody's SHOWN the tests. At this point, the evidence is hypothetical and anecdotal, as opposed to Empirical-remember, testing methodology requires documentation (aka: shoot a VIDEO of this in action, screenshot of the end-match scoreboards...) Until that's done, the staff can sit back, and ignore it or minimalize those pointing out the condition/problem.
It's a hell of a lot harder to ignore hard evidence, than it is to ignore angry ranting.
Not true, almost all changes that needed to be done for pvp have been because of angry ranting rather then hard evidence.
Yeah that console makes HPS numbers on escorts better/around the same as the best dedicated healers lol. (4000 hps), although hps dosen't tell all, resist and regen have quite a share, as well as spike vs overtime heals.
its really fun, to see my HPS numbers pretty much multiply by 5 (or even 10, and they were never low to begin with)
on the other hand, from what I have seen, the healing is done also, when shields are full, or it adds 6000 to shields, when only 1000 is down, so the numbers are a bit misleading, and imo this is just another fault with the parsing system (justlike the old tricobalt builds, that dealt huge dps, but finished stfs slowly) so nerfing this console might not be a great idea (especially since people payed money for it, and nerfing something after you have paid for it, without any option for refund is never a great idea)
its really fun, to see my HPS numbers pretty much multiply by 5 (or even 10, and they were never low to begin with)
on the other hand, from what I have seen, the healing is done also, when shields are full, or it adds 6000 to shields, when only 1000 is down, so the numbers are a bit misleading, and imo this is just another fault with the parsing system (justlike the old tricobalt builds, that dealt huge dps, but finished stfs slowly) so nerfing this console might not be a great idea (especially since people payed money for it, and nerfing something after you have paid for it, without any option for refund is never a great idea)
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh timed based statistics on shield heals, whether it spills over or not, is not "misleading data" it shows just how much potential heal it can do within a set amount of time. Stating that those numbers are irrelevant because they are spilling over the shield cap is very misleading.
Not true, almost all changes that needed to be done for pvp have been because of angry ranting rather then hard evidence.
Not true, you people will say "they didn't test it" or "there is no evidence" of it. Regardless of the facts, just to keep the uber itam. Denial Denial Denial.
They also did the same thing with plasmonic leech, maco shield, borg shield heal proc, sub nuke doffs etc. Do I need to go on? People wouldn't be here, if it was so blatantly obvious that this thing is broken. Read the skill "grants a 2.5% chance of converting 200% weapon damage to shield heal" read it! Anyone who knows anything about pvp knows that that is insane healage from the description alone. Furthermore, they know it is insane healage based on how much it overheals.
People who are saying the proc chance is low mis-understand the probabilities in this particular case.
The odds of a proc on a single weapon activation is 2.5%. Fine. But since a proc on any activation heals your shields to full, let's examine the odds of getting a proc in 4 activations of all your weapons (7).
The odds of at least one proc is [1 - (the chance of no procs)].
Or: 1 - (.975^((7)(4))) = 0.508
So better than 50% chance of a full shield heal in the time it takes to fire 4 times. Which, IIRC, is about 30 seconds.
_________________________________________________ [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth] [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk] [D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
Just to defend developers, they have DPS data from every player. On the other hand the PvPers who complain about X sci skill needs to be nerfed (which has made sci captain's offensive skills TRIBBLE) or Y console needs to be nerfed, play on a daily basis and only have personal experience in order to complain. The players that abuse this console are a small percentage compared to the overall population. All the constant complaining for this small minority is the main culprit for this game being so damn DPS focused. Fine, nerf the console and buff all the sci and engineer skills that have gotten nerfed because of PvP complaints.
The developers know **** all about this game and how to balance it. The PvPers who actually test builds, ships, setups against each other are in a better position to judge what is broken or not.
PvE is a joke that requires nothing but a pulse to complete the content.
Not true, you people will say "they didn't test it" or "there is no evidence" of it. Regardless of the facts, just to keep the uber itam. Denial Denial Denial.
They also did the same thing with plasmonic leech, maco shield, borg shield heal proc, sub nuke doffs etc. Do I need to go on? People wouldn't be here, if it was so blatantly obvious that this thing is broken. Read the skill "grants a 2.5% chance of converting 200% weapon damage to shield heal" read it! Anyone who knows anything about pvp knows that that is insane healage from the description alone. Furthermore, they know it is insane healage based on how much it overheals.
What are you talking about?
I'm saying cryptic has in the past rarely made any changes to the game until there is mass angry rants on the forums about it.
Proof be damned, cryptic is too slow to act until people start getting banned on the forums trying to say there's something broken.
So all this big trouble is for PVP, what only a small minority plays. Fix: The console does not work against players. I would be happy with that.
They are upset about the odd chance of a big heal. Let me brake it to you! Its a tiny chance, and it may come when you dont need it at all!
Plus... 80k shield heal does not matter, it goes to waste. No ship in game has 80k shields. So why would the developers make something useless because it has the Tiny, miniscule chance of a full shield heal?
Because lets face it, in competitive pve, it does little. It heals, which is either un-needed, or not enough in the rare one shot cases.
In non competitive pve, such as STFs, it is useful.
But then lets take away the just as powerful Plasmonic leech and the Neutronium armor too, if people surviving PVE is a problem for the few but vocal complainers here.
And no, it does not protect against 1shot kills.
But let me put it in a perspective. Nerfing pay-to-win items in a free to play MMO is a very stupid idea for any company.
I am hoping Cryptic has more sense then to do this, for this would disgruntle customers to no end.
Did they ever nerf the stupidly powerful Plasmonic leech? No, I dont think so. Or all the Klingons would be up in open revolt.
Its much better to make new c-store ships powerful, with a power creep. That still makes people buy the new ships, without ruining their previous purchase that they made for cash.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
So all this big trouble is for PVP, what only a small minority plays. Fix: The console does not work against players. I would be happy with that. Cryptic has stated repeatedly that different PvP/PvE mechanics are not something they want to implement.
They are upset about the odd chance of a big heal. Let me brake it to you! Its a tiny chance, and it may come when you dont need it at all! 2.5% per plink is not a tiny chance.
Plus... 80k shield heal does not matter, it goes to waste. No ship in game has 80k shields. So why would the developers make something useless because it has the Tiny, miniscule chance of a full shield heal? So because it over heals so much that the heals are wasted it's not OP?
Because lets face it, in competitive pve, it does little. It heals, which is either un-needed, or not enough in the rare one shot cases. If by competitive PvE you mean SB24 and CE which totals damage and healing, then yes, it actually screws anybody not running it.
In non competitive pve, such as STFs, it is useful. It makes it even more difficult to die in STFs. Kirk knew the jump in the ribbon entity held no chance of hurting him. It removed the satisfaction. Kirk knows best.
But then lets take away the just as powerful Plasmonic leech and the Neutronium armor too, if people surviving PVE is a problem for the few but vocal complainers here.
And no, it does not protect against 1shot kills. The part in red is just being disingenuous.
But let me put it in a perspective. I doubt you can since you've had very little accuracy or knowledge of STO history thus far. But go ahead. Nerfing pay-to-win items in a free to play MMO is a very stupid idea for any company.
I am hoping Cryptic has more sense then to do this, for this would disgruntle customers to no end.
Did they ever nerf the stupidly powerful Plasmonic leech? No, I dont think so. Or all the Klingons would be up in open revolt. Actually it was adjusted multiple times, most notably making PI resist the drain very effectively.
Its much better to make new c-store ships powerful, with a power creep. Are you Geko's sockpuppet? That still makes people buy the new ships, without ruining their previous purchase that they made for cash.
In fact, the opposite is true from a F2P business model. Providing the purchaser with something that they want while preventing the other player from feeling like they lost solely because of the paid advantage is how you keep a game from dying the P2W death.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
The developers know **** all about this game and how to balance it. The PvPers who actually test builds, ships, setups against each other are in a better position to judge what is broken or not.
PvE is a joke that requires nothing but a pulse to complete the content.
This can be fixed without ruining it for PvE, by simply limiting the amount of healing it does every X seconds. For example, it cannot proc more than once every 60 seconds.
Plenty of abilities work that way, so it is possible. And that way it still heals nicely, but not overwhelmingly.
_________________________________________________ [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth] [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk] [D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
Hmm I wonder why PvPers are seen as egotistical elitists who don't care about the majority of the games player base.
why should we care when the "rest" of the player base blames every little thing that changes the game on us? even when we fight with the dev's to not change something?
This can be fixed without ruining it for PvE, by simply limiting the amount of healing it does every X seconds. For example, it cannot proc more than once every 60 seconds.
Plenty of abilities work that way, so it is possible. And that way it still heals nicely, but not overwhelmingly.
First part yes second part - No no no - as we agreed before- not changing the proc in anyway - just the total amount of heal in X amount to time - therefore crusiers won't get screwed and players who are unlucky enough to have it proc 10x in a row on a 200 dmg turrent hit aren't screwed also.
Actually it only hurts the PvP community as it fosters the belief in the attitudes I mentioned earlier - part of the reason PvP is dying in this game and more people don't participate.
Actually it only hurts the PvP community as it fosters the belief in the attitudes I mentioned earlier - part of the reason PvP is dying in this game and more people don't participate.
you know what, its not the communities fault pvp is dying.
the community is in the state its in because cryptic has constantly neglected, lied, broken their word on "pvp being important to them".
check the history, every time a new season/major patch has rolled around, theyve promised at some point that it would be big for pvp! then guess what!
nothing happens for the good, pvp usually becomes worse because they add TRIBBLE that isnt tested or worse, is tested and warned to be too good and still added anyways.
you also have to remember that the "content" in this game can be beaten by a 2 yr old with a ship on auto fire.
Actually it only hurts the PvP community as it fosters the belief in the attitudes I mentioned earlier - part of the reason PvP is dying in this game and more people don't participate.
PvP has always been trash in this game b/c the people who make the game don't even bother investing a half-assed effort in it. In a game where you can make an ignore list and just hit f to respawn after a short timer blaming other players is just sad.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
finally did some testing and parceing, this console is so lol. every 1 to 7 seconds you fire it goes off, with an average of 3 seconds. the minimum heal is about 1400, with 7k heals not uncommon. it clearly goes off per shot, not per cycle, and any attack that deals a lot of damage per shot, DHCs, benefits most for course. you can expect a full shield heal, nearly, from it procing from a DHC hit.
it procing on a crit, well that gives you a heal between 20k and 60k. sure you dont have that kind of capacity, but its a full heal any way, and a i win button to any scored pve mission.
lol@ pve'ers defending this TRIBBLE or getting mad when we want their new crutch gets kicked out from under them
thankfully, this will be effortless to balance. there isn't the issue with the volume of fire you get PVE vs PVP. its procing off your weapons fire, that doesn't change ether way. the console should have a 10 second hardcap for healing at least, and the magnitude lowered to 150% or less, with crits discarded. then its still one of the most P2W consoles ever, but it less of an i win button.
finally did some testing and parceing, this console is so lol. every 1 to 7 seconds you fire it goes off, with an average of 3 seconds. the minimum heal is about 1400, with 7k heals not uncommon. it clearly goes off per shot, not per cycle, and any attack that deals a lot of damage per shot, DHCs, benefits most for course. you can expect a full shield heal, nearly, from it procing from a DHC hit.
it procing on a crit, well that gives you a heal between 20k and 60k. sure you dont have that kind of capacity, but its a full heal any way, and a i win button to any scored pve mission.
lol@ pve'ers defending this TRIBBLE or getting mad when we want their new crutch gets kicked out from under them
thankfully, this will be effortless to balance. there isn't the issue with the volume of fire you get PVE vs PVP. its procing off your weapons fire, that doesn't change ether way. the console should have a 10 second hardcap for healing at least, and the magnitude lowered to 150% or less, with crits discarded. then its still one of the most P2W consoles ever, but it less of an i win button.
finally did some testing and parceing, this console is so lol. every 1 to 7 seconds you fire it goes off, with an average of 3 seconds. the minimum heal is about 1400, with 7k heals not uncommon. it clearly goes off per shot, not per cycle, and any attack that deals a lot of damage per shot, DHCs, benefits most for course. you can expect a full shield heal, nearly, from it procing from a DHC hit.
it procing on a crit, well that gives you a heal between 20k and 60k. sure you dont have that kind of capacity, but its a full heal any way, and a i win button to any scored pve mission.
lol@ pve'ers defending this TRIBBLE or getting mad when we want their new crutch gets kicked out from under them
thankfully, this will be effortless to balance. there isn't the issue with the volume of fire you get PVE vs PVP. its procing off your weapons fire, that doesn't change ether way. the console should have a 10 second hardcap for healing at least, and the magnitude lowered to 150% or less, with crits discarded. then its still one of the most P2W consoles ever, but it less of an i win button.
This was essentially said countless times in two different threads already. Still the most common reaction to this by people who defend this console is either ignorance, denial or wild accuses of lying. If you back up your results with a combat parser the same people will claim that its a fabrication and will demand a video of you playing instead. Chances are that even if you would provide them with one they will again ignore it or claim it's a fabrication.
Comments
To be fair, Tachyon Beam was never good to begin with. It had horrible base numbers, and Flow Capacitors didn't buff them in any meaningful way. Power Insulators just exacerbated the underlying problem.
lol... Of course it can. Viral Matrix, Drop Weapon Power to 0, Boarding Party (As if anyone uses that), Disables, dropping Shield Power to 0, use shield ignoring attacks, and of course staying where your opponent can fire the least number of weapons at you or blowing them up before they have a chance to even begin firing.
It is not unstoppable nor is it so powerful as to make a ship using it perfectly Godly. The problem is that if it procs enough at the right times it can make the ship in question extremely difficult to kill in both PvE and PvP. It takes a little luck but unless the RNG hates you for some reason it is fairly likely that if you build your boat to shoot a LOT then you WILL score the shield heals in time to save yourself.
I think the developers tried fixing some of the imbalance with some of the new LoR doffs and the fleet elite items as far as Sci toons go. Unfortunately, if the sci skills aren't buffed back up a bit, it doesn't go far enough.
Not true, almost all changes that needed to be done for pvp have been because of angry ranting rather then hard evidence.
Do you even Science Bro?
its really fun, to see my HPS numbers pretty much multiply by 5 (or even 10, and they were never low to begin with)
on the other hand, from what I have seen, the healing is done also, when shields are full, or it adds 6000 to shields, when only 1000 is down, so the numbers are a bit misleading, and imo this is just another fault with the parsing system (justlike the old tricobalt builds, that dealt huge dps, but finished stfs slowly) so nerfing this console might not be a great idea (especially since people payed money for it, and nerfing something after you have paid for it, without any option for refund is never a great idea)
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh timed based statistics on shield heals, whether it spills over or not, is not "misleading data" it shows just how much potential heal it can do within a set amount of time. Stating that those numbers are irrelevant because they are spilling over the shield cap is very misleading.
Not true, you people will say "they didn't test it" or "there is no evidence" of it. Regardless of the facts, just to keep the uber itam. Denial Denial Denial.
They also did the same thing with plasmonic leech, maco shield, borg shield heal proc, sub nuke doffs etc. Do I need to go on? People wouldn't be here, if it was so blatantly obvious that this thing is broken. Read the skill "grants a 2.5% chance of converting 200% weapon damage to shield heal" read it! Anyone who knows anything about pvp knows that that is insane healage from the description alone. Furthermore, they know it is insane healage based on how much it overheals.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
The odds of a proc on a single weapon activation is 2.5%. Fine. But since a proc on any activation heals your shields to full, let's examine the odds of getting a proc in 4 activations of all your weapons (7).
The odds of at least one proc is [1 - (the chance of no procs)].
Or: 1 - (.975^((7)(4))) = 0.508
So better than 50% chance of a full shield heal in the time it takes to fire 4 times. Which, IIRC, is about 30 seconds.
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
The developers know **** all about this game and how to balance it. The PvPers who actually test builds, ships, setups against each other are in a better position to judge what is broken or not.
PvE is a joke that requires nothing but a pulse to complete the content.
What are you talking about?
I'm saying cryptic has in the past rarely made any changes to the game until there is mass angry rants on the forums about it.
Proof be damned, cryptic is too slow to act until people start getting banned on the forums trying to say there's something broken.
Maybe you misunderstood me?
Do you even Science Bro?
They are upset about the odd chance of a big heal. Let me brake it to you! Its a tiny chance, and it may come when you dont need it at all!
Plus... 80k shield heal does not matter, it goes to waste. No ship in game has 80k shields. So why would the developers make something useless because it has the Tiny, miniscule chance of a full shield heal?
Because lets face it, in competitive pve, it does little. It heals, which is either un-needed, or not enough in the rare one shot cases.
In non competitive pve, such as STFs, it is useful.
But then lets take away the just as powerful Plasmonic leech and the Neutronium armor too, if people surviving PVE is a problem for the few but vocal complainers here.
And no, it does not protect against 1shot kills.
But let me put it in a perspective. Nerfing pay-to-win items in a free to play MMO is a very stupid idea for any company.
I am hoping Cryptic has more sense then to do this, for this would disgruntle customers to no end.
Did they ever nerf the stupidly powerful Plasmonic leech? No, I dont think so. Or all the Klingons would be up in open revolt.
Its much better to make new c-store ships powerful, with a power creep. That still makes people buy the new ships, without ruining their previous purchase that they made for cash.
Let's delete the thread, lest we steal their precious toy from them! :P
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Hmm I wonder why PvPers are seen as egotistical elitists who don't care about the majority of the games player base.
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
The majority of the userbase are ****ing slugs who don't matter in the slightest.
I only play because of the OPvPers and other randoms who play PvP.
They got a new Drozana so I'd not say that :rolleyes:
cant believe that people still die in PvE
This can be fixed without ruining it for PvE, by simply limiting the amount of healing it does every X seconds. For example, it cannot proc more than once every 60 seconds.
Plenty of abilities work that way, so it is possible. And that way it still heals nicely, but not overwhelmingly.
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
why should we care when the "rest" of the player base blames every little thing that changes the game on us? even when we fight with the dev's to not change something?
Do you even Science Bro?
First part yes second part - No no no - as we agreed before- not changing the proc in anyway - just the total amount of heal in X amount to time - therefore crusiers won't get screwed and players who are unlucky enough to have it proc 10x in a row on a 200 dmg turrent hit aren't screwed also.
Wow you just go over the top don't you!
it only hurts if its true.
Do you even Science Bro?
Actually it only hurts the PvP community as it fosters the belief in the attitudes I mentioned earlier - part of the reason PvP is dying in this game and more people don't participate.
you know what, its not the communities fault pvp is dying.
the community is in the state its in because cryptic has constantly neglected, lied, broken their word on "pvp being important to them".
check the history, every time a new season/major patch has rolled around, theyve promised at some point that it would be big for pvp! then guess what!
nothing happens for the good, pvp usually becomes worse because they add TRIBBLE that isnt tested or worse, is tested and warned to be too good and still added anyways.
you also have to remember that the "content" in this game can be beaten by a 2 yr old with a ship on auto fire.
but thats a whole seperate issue in itself.
Do you even Science Bro?
PvP has always been trash in this game b/c the people who make the game don't even bother investing a half-assed effort in it. In a game where you can make an ignore list and just hit f to respawn after a short timer blaming other players is just sad.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
it procing on a crit, well that gives you a heal between 20k and 60k. sure you dont have that kind of capacity, but its a full heal any way, and a i win button to any scored pve mission.
lol@ pve'ers defending this TRIBBLE or getting mad when we want their new crutch gets kicked out from under them
thankfully, this will be effortless to balance. there isn't the issue with the volume of fire you get PVE vs PVP. its procing off your weapons fire, that doesn't change ether way. the console should have a 10 second hardcap for healing at least, and the magnitude lowered to 150% or less, with crits discarded. then its still one of the most P2W consoles ever, but it less of an i win button.
Remember; no proof = no problem
Do you even Science Bro?
This was essentially said countless times in two different threads already. Still the most common reaction to this by people who defend this console is either ignorance, denial or wild accuses of lying. If you back up your results with a combat parser the same people will claim that its a fabrication and will demand a video of you playing instead. Chances are that even if you would provide them with one they will again ignore it or claim it's a fabrication.