Re: Magnitude
I'm seeing heals for 65 and heals for 57k. During the time period of the 65 I had an attack that fits, but not for the 57k. Something screwy is going on. It's interacting with something else. If someone isn't running that something then they may very well be seeing reasonable numbers. Let's assume that nobody is lying about what they're seeing or trying to hang on to an I-Win button or going on a P2W pogrom. Give me and everybody else some time.
Re: Frequency
I'm seeing activations within 2s of each other. I'm not seeing much downtime, if I'm shooting for real I'm not seeing it going over 10s without an activation very often.
Re: Trigger
AFAIK only DEM and Tet Glider are per plink, everything else is per cycle. This looks like it has to be per plink because it's triggering multiple times per cycle. That means that the 2.5% is not the same 2.5% we're used to talking about for weapon flavor procs.
Typically things in this game are stupid OP when they interact with something else, like BFI doffs and the Jem Shield. The magnitude, at least, isn't matching what the description says so step 1 is to figure out what the unintended influence is.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Enlighten us please, what's your success rate in doing that? Or are you suggesting this once again, not based on personal experience but via imagination, like you don't own this console but is convinced it's OP?
I have to side with Mewi on this point. You should probably be fully aware that the Alpha is coming... Knowing it is coming you can defend yourself against it. Maybe your speakers don't work? Maybe you listen to music while playing that is too loud to hear over? Maybe your Team-Speak is up too darned high? When I hear someone buffing up who is not on my team I am fully aware a Decloak-Alpha is just seconds away.
The Decloak bonus is not so great as to make it that much better than a standard Alpha either. So if you cannot handle those then you are just not going to do well at PvP in general.
As for looking at this console in combination with other things... Well... You can make a lot of things seemingly OP with the right combination. This console is not reliable but if its procs hit when you need them to they can save you from death that was formerly assured. Combining that with Battle Cloak does make it very hard to get kills on Romulans especially with all their other ways of just evading target lock to begin with.
So is the Console OP for PvP? It certainly can be. Is it the only thing? Hah... No. PvP is so unbalanced it is just silly. We all are fully aware that PvP in general and everything that goes into it needs a major once-over and likely a total overhaul. So... I have to wonder... is nerfing this console really going to help all that much? I mean the Romulan ships in general are at the very minimum EXTREMELY annoying in PvP. I suspect the answer is that it will only be another bandaid on the overall problem.
That said: Cry nerf if you must but keep in mind that once that hammer starts swinging it can get very overzealous and indiscriminant.
This console is not OP; very situational and presents a VERY false overview of effective healing.
since its very situational you wont mind if they nerf it so you wont outheal a dedicated healer or make the console crossfaction.Its not op so no one will mind if everyone is using it.if the readings are false they should fix these false readings.
If TT was not so invaluable that argument might be worthy... However, AMS does very little in PvE and while it is rather obnoxious in PvP (Especially on a BCer) the console this thread focuses on is very useful in both PvP and PvE.
If TT was not so invaluable that argument might be worthy... However, AMS does very little in PvE and while it is rather obnoxious in PvP (Especially on a BCer) the console this thread focuses on is very useful in both PvP and PvE.
AMS you click once and have it for few seconds.That console effect is all the time.
Ok maybe sci ships or engineers should not share the cd with tt when using sci team but ams nor bug ships are the topic here.Having 1 console which allows a escort to get more heal than a dedicated healer should not be normal.
if thats normal the console should be crossfaction.
The Valdore console's heal is very much of a gamble. And it still heals usually less then EPTS, plus warbirds are squishy to begin with.
Plus, PVP should not have any impact on PVE.
The console functions fine in PVE, where the enemies either cant harm you anyway, or will still instant-kill you with full shields.
How is equipping a console that grants a passive to all weapons, a "gamble"
it is only "situational" a "gamble" "doesnt work" when you are not firing. This is nonsense, if you aren't firing then you aren't being attacked or have weapons disabled.
This console is not OP; very situational and presents a VERY false overview of effective healing.
If anything needs a nerfing its AMS.
DSthal close this thread please. Its outlived its purpose beyond the whine.
Really dev?
You embarrass yourself defending this console.
it's obviously OP.
As for ams sorry if you have to pull that extra 789 pts from ew crits 'n put it to sensors. cause that's all it takes to cut the ams effect to like 2 seconds.
you're an 'elite' pvper though right, so you already know all that.
Really dev?
You embarrass yourself defending this console.
it's obviously OP.
As for ams sorry if you have to pull that extra 789 pts from ew crits 'n put it to sensors. cause that's all it takes to cut the ams effect to like 2 seconds.
you're an 'elite' pvper though right, so you already know all that.
Bah!
Its still highly situational with a 2.5% chance to proc. Powerful, maybe, but not OP as people would have it to be.
As for EFFECTIVE healing a recluse or any dedicated healer will still heal better and more efficent when the heals are actually NEEDED, then a random shield heal every now and then. The endgame score paints a VERY false picture of EFFECTIVE healing when all is summed up. Check your parsers after i say. But sure i can go for a nerf down to 100%, but beyond that the whine crowd surely has marched in yet again.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Lets look at this console from the perspective of Proc. It has the same probability of procing as any other weapon type, so its like adding a Lagsma console. But the problem is, it happens to be the first proc that heals. So unfortunately it kinda stacks if the person is lucky enough. Not sure if you can enhance the healing of it, other than boosting your dmg output. But it does heal, rather than attempt to dmg an opponent. This is what makes it appear OP.
My opinion is it should be limited in the amount of times it can proc per a set amount of time. That way nobody can get uber healed, thou still if somebody hits a huge BO3 Crit, they could have a 2.5% chance to get OMG healed. So short of taking it away, or nerfing it to the point of useless. There is no way to fix this. Atleast we can say it doesn't alter shield resists which in my opinion is a good thing. Otherwise it would be like the old Laghedar shield and therefor OMG OP.
So in conclusion, not sure if it is OP yet, although a lucky person could stack hard with it.
This all reminds me of the old debates regarding Plasmonic Leech, which also acted as a proc, only in that case, it was stealing power from your target and draining it from their shields.
Plasmonic leech was nerfed/fixed after it was proven by a dev to be broken.
Thought I'd post these from ACT parser of running Carraya mission to earn Romulan marks yesterday, honestly not sure whats going on with the proc but it did proc 32x over the 20 or so mins most were small shield heals but several were for over 30k per shield facing which seems silly since that is 3x the size of the covariant shields I'm running. Also running the romulan doff which gives +20 shield power (chance to proc when firing energy weapons) maybe there is some weird interaction between boffs/doffs that is affecting the heal size.
Lets look at this console from the perspective of Proc. It has the same probability of procing as any other weapon type, so its like adding a Lagsma console. But the problem is, it happens to be the first proc that heals. So unfortunately it kinda stacks if the person is lucky enough. Not sure if you can enhance the healing of it, other than boosting your dmg output. But it does heal, rather than attempt to dmg an opponent. This is what makes it appear OP.
My opinion is it should be limited in the amount of times it can proc per a set amount of time. That way nobody can get uber healed, thou still if somebody hits a huge BO3 Crit, they could have a 2.5% chance to get OMG healed. So short of taking it away, or nerfing it to the point of useless. There is no way to fix this. Atleast we can say it doesn't alter shield resists which in my opinion is a good thing. Otherwise it would be like the old Laghedar shield and therefor OMG OP.
So in conclusion, not sure if it is OP yet, although a lucky person could stack hard with it.
Besides, the healing it gives FAR FAR exceeds the capacity of ANY shield. So so what if it heals for 100k? Its not like you need that 100k either, which in turn gives a very false impression of how effective and how much this console actually heals when you NEED the healing.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
So there was a requirement of proof. which in turn means someone needs to run a test, and video it-then have someone ELSE run a similar test, and video THAT.
Besides, the healing it gives FAR FAR exceeds the capacity of ANY shield. So so what if it heals for 100k? Its not like you need that 100k either, which in turn gives a very false impression of how effective and how much this console actually heals when you NEED the healing.
So your saying a console that procs more often then a weapon proc... due to being per plink instead of cycle.
That heals so hard most of is wasting... completely Restoring your shield.
Is fine.
I love my Rom to... but even I can't defend this that hard... at some point these damn things will end up in a lock box and be on ships where trying to kill.
So your saying a console that procs more often then a weapon proc... due to being per plink instead of cycle.
That heals so hard most of is wasting... completely Restoring your shield.
Is fine.
I love my Rom to... but even I can't defend this that hard... at some point these damn things will end up in a lock box and be on ships where trying to kill.
From what i posted and quoted in the other thread:
Originally Posted by aexrael
Can we stop hyberbole nonsense such as this, not to mention the angsty teenager drivel about the developers.
In the interest of full disclosure I dug up the last three CCnormal parses I did earlier.
#1 Out of 1598 hits, it procced 42 times = 2.62%
#2 Out of 1312 hits, it procced 19 times = 1.44%
#3 Out of 1181 hits, it procced 23 times = 1.94%
There is nothing wrong with the proc chance from what I'm seeing, so drop the "it procs all the time herp derp".
There is however something not right with the amount healed. From some quick search/find in the log I can find the recorded maximum healed amounts but I can't find the correlating 200% less Damage Hit number, even accounting for decimals, beyond that I can't say what is going wrong, I'm not scrutinizing 30 million lines of the log to figure it out. But I'd hope whomever is going to look at it from Cryptic runs it through QA before hammering it with a reduction in effectiveness based purely on idle speculation from the forum rabble.
Yes it is procing exactly as it should, however, the 200% of dmg is where we see something weird. But with a BO3 critical of 40k Dmg you could therefore get a 80,000 shield heal + whatever other factor(doff/boffs/passives) that might be effecting it.
That is why you see wacky numbers - it could proc on a 200 dmg turrent hit or a 40k BO3 critical hit.
There is no need to run out with the nerf bat - a lot of data and time needs to be accessed due to the uniqueness of this console.
Probably what is needed is can't proc more than X times in X seconds - but that presents the problem if it proc'd on all small turrent hits - so maybe a total shield heal of X in X time.
This. So that it won't really matter how often it procs or for how much. Also, this puts beam users at no disadvantage, as long as they also have a good chance of hitting the cap. (I.e. a DHC ship might max out earlier, but the beam boat willget there.)
_________________________________________________ [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth] [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk] [D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
Just to defend developers, they have DPS data from every player. On the other hand the PvPers who complain about X sci skill needs to be nerfed (which has made sci captain's offensive skills TRIBBLE) or Y console needs to be nerfed, play on a daily basis and only have personal experience in order to complain. The players that abuse this console are a small percentage compared to the overall population. All the constant complaining for this small minority is the main culprit for this game being so damn DPS focused. Fine, nerf the console and buff all the sci and engineer skills that have gotten nerfed because of PvP complaints.
Just to defend developers, they have DPS data from every player. On the other hand the PvPers who complain about X sci skill needs to be nerfed (which has made sci captain's offensive skills TRIBBLE) or Y console needs to be nerfed, play on a daily basis and only have personal experience in order to complain. The players that abuse this console are a small percentage compared to the overall population. All the constant complaining for this small minority is the main culprit for this game being so damn DPS focused. Fine, nerf the console and buff all the sci and engineer skills that have gotten nerfed because of PvP complaints.
There's no "abusing" this console, it's just using it. You can't help how it functions, it just does. And it does it a little too well.
If you'll notice, the general consensus is calling for stuff to be buffed - things like Tachyon Beam, Tyken's Rift, and Engineers in general. Why? Because while "nerfs" were called for some things, they were taken wayyyyy too far into the realm of uselessness. Engineers, on the other hand, just became obsolete due to stupid design choices... aka, the Rep system.
Comments
Re: Magnitude
I'm seeing heals for 65 and heals for 57k. During the time period of the 65 I had an attack that fits, but not for the 57k. Something screwy is going on. It's interacting with something else. If someone isn't running that something then they may very well be seeing reasonable numbers. Let's assume that nobody is lying about what they're seeing or trying to hang on to an I-Win button or going on a P2W pogrom. Give me and everybody else some time.
Re: Frequency
I'm seeing activations within 2s of each other. I'm not seeing much downtime, if I'm shooting for real I'm not seeing it going over 10s without an activation very often.
Re: Trigger
AFAIK only DEM and Tet Glider are per plink, everything else is per cycle. This looks like it has to be per plink because it's triggering multiple times per cycle. That means that the 2.5% is not the same 2.5% we're used to talking about for weapon flavor procs.
Typically things in this game are stupid OP when they interact with something else, like BFI doffs and the Jem Shield. The magnitude, at least, isn't matching what the description says so step 1 is to figure out what the unintended influence is.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
I have to side with Mewi on this point. You should probably be fully aware that the Alpha is coming... Knowing it is coming you can defend yourself against it. Maybe your speakers don't work? Maybe you listen to music while playing that is too loud to hear over? Maybe your Team-Speak is up too darned high? When I hear someone buffing up who is not on my team I am fully aware a Decloak-Alpha is just seconds away.
The Decloak bonus is not so great as to make it that much better than a standard Alpha either. So if you cannot handle those then you are just not going to do well at PvP in general.
As for looking at this console in combination with other things... Well... You can make a lot of things seemingly OP with the right combination. This console is not reliable but if its procs hit when you need them to they can save you from death that was formerly assured. Combining that with Battle Cloak does make it very hard to get kills on Romulans especially with all their other ways of just evading target lock to begin with.
So is the Console OP for PvP? It certainly can be. Is it the only thing? Hah... No. PvP is so unbalanced it is just silly. We all are fully aware that PvP in general and everything that goes into it needs a major once-over and likely a total overhaul. So... I have to wonder... is nerfing this console really going to help all that much? I mean the Romulan ships in general are at the very minimum EXTREMELY annoying in PvP. I suspect the answer is that it will only be another bandaid on the overall problem.
That said: Cry nerf if you must but keep in mind that once that hammer starts swinging it can get very overzealous and indiscriminant.
If anything needs a nerfing its AMS.
DSthal close this thread please. Its outlived its purpose beyond the whine.
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
since its very situational you wont mind if they nerf it so you wont outheal a dedicated healer or make the console crossfaction.Its not op so no one will mind if everyone is using it.if the readings are false they should fix these false readings.
the boff trainer with free sci team is op.
after nerf he will :rolleyes:
If TT was not so invaluable that argument might be worthy... However, AMS does very little in PvE and while it is rather obnoxious in PvP (Especially on a BCer) the console this thread focuses on is very useful in both PvP and PvE.
Nope, it is OP. Get on a Tac and you'll see.
AMS is a total joke with a proper sensors config and team clearing.
AMS is what is totally situational now.
AMS you click once and have it for few seconds.That console effect is all the time.
Ok maybe sci ships or engineers should not share the cd with tt when using sci team but ams nor bug ships are the topic here.Having 1 console which allows a escort to get more heal than a dedicated healer should not be normal.
if thats normal the console should be crossfaction.
i think your green blood is clouding your judgement.
also..
HAHAHAHAAHAHA like dsthal would ever venture here....
Do you even Science Bro?
Plus, PVP should not have any impact on PVE.
The console functions fine in PVE, where the enemies either cant harm you anyway, or will still instant-kill you with full shields.
How is equipping a console that grants a passive to all weapons, a "gamble"
it is only "situational" a "gamble" "doesnt work" when you are not firing. This is nonsense, if you aren't firing then you aren't being attacked or have weapons disabled.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Really dev?
You embarrass yourself defending this console.
it's obviously OP.
As for ams sorry if you have to pull that extra 789 pts from ew crits 'n put it to sensors. cause that's all it takes to cut the ams effect to like 2 seconds.
you're an 'elite' pvper though right, so you already know all that.
Bah!
Its still highly situational with a 2.5% chance to proc. Powerful, maybe, but not OP as people would have it to be.
As for EFFECTIVE healing a recluse or any dedicated healer will still heal better and more efficent when the heals are actually NEEDED, then a random shield heal every now and then. The endgame score paints a VERY false picture of EFFECTIVE healing when all is summed up. Check your parsers after i say. But sure i can go for a nerf down to 100%, but beyond that the whine crowd surely has marched in yet again.
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
2.5% chance per weapon ISNT situational.........................
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
My opinion is it should be limited in the amount of times it can proc per a set amount of time. That way nobody can get uber healed, thou still if somebody hits a huge BO3 Crit, they could have a 2.5% chance to get OMG healed. So short of taking it away, or nerfing it to the point of useless. There is no way to fix this. Atleast we can say it doesn't alter shield resists which in my opinion is a good thing. Otherwise it would be like the old Laghedar shield and therefor OMG OP.
So in conclusion, not sure if it is OP yet, although a lucky person could stack hard with it.
Nothing should heal like it does with just one console.
Plasmonic leech was nerfed/fixed after it was proven by a dev to be broken.
^ from the other valdore thread.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
No, but the pathetic proc chance makes the bonus from the healing highly situational!
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
.......................................................................................................... please enter PvP more.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Besides, the healing it gives FAR FAR exceeds the capacity of ANY shield. So so what if it heals for 100k? Its not like you need that 100k either, which in turn gives a very false impression of how effective and how much this console actually heals when you NEED the healing.
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
People HAVE ran tests... my god.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
So your saying a console that procs more often then a weapon proc... due to being per plink instead of cycle.
That heals so hard most of is wasting... completely Restoring your shield.
Is fine.
I love my Rom to... but even I can't defend this that hard... at some point these damn things will end up in a lock box and be on ships where trying to kill.
From what i posted and quoted in the other thread:
Yes it is procing exactly as it should, however, the 200% of dmg is where we see something weird. But with a BO3 critical of 40k Dmg you could therefore get a 80,000 shield heal + whatever other factor(doff/boffs/passives) that might be effecting it.
That is why you see wacky numbers - it could proc on a 200 dmg turrent hit or a 40k BO3 critical hit.
There is no need to run out with the nerf bat - a lot of data and time needs to be accessed due to the uniqueness of this console.
Probably what is needed is can't proc more than X times in X seconds - but that presents the problem if it proc'd on all small turrent hits - so maybe a total shield heal of X in X time.
This. So that it won't really matter how often it procs or for how much. Also, this puts beam users at no disadvantage, as long as they also have a good chance of hitting the cap. (I.e. a DHC ship might max out earlier, but the beam boat willget there.)
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
There's no "abusing" this console, it's just using it. You can't help how it functions, it just does. And it does it a little too well.
If you'll notice, the general consensus is calling for stuff to be buffed - things like Tachyon Beam, Tyken's Rift, and Engineers in general. Why? Because while "nerfs" were called for some things, they were taken wayyyyy too far into the realm of uselessness. Engineers, on the other hand, just became obsolete due to stupid design choices... aka, the Rep system.