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Rommie ships are HUGE

squatsaucesquatsauce Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited July 2013 in Romulan Discussion
Seriously. They are all gigantic. Well, except for the T'varo/T'liss. Is that intentional?

The D'Deridex is supposed to be big, I get that, but it's also designed in such a way to show that, while it may have a great deal of volume, mass-wise, it's not much bigger than a Galaxy. The model scaling for this one's probably fine.

The Mogai feels like it's probably too big, being wider than the Scimitar model.

The Dahlen is enormous, being the size of a Klingon or Federation heavy cruiser.

The Ha'pex, Ha'nom, and Ha'feh are ridiculous. They easily mass twice their federation and klingon counterparts and are far more substantial than the D'Deridex. Fly one next to a Lunc class or a Galaxy and you will dwarf them. I'm not just talking about the wings, I'm talking about the enormous brick of a central hull these ships have.
Post edited by squatsauce on
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  • oracion666oracion666 Member Posts: 338 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I'll take your Ha'apax and raise you my Haakona :D

    I must say, I love the feeling of dwarfing nearly every other ship around me, with the exception of very few. The Jemmy Dread is a match, as well as the Tholian Carrier. Have not seen a Bortas yet, so I can't compare, but I do dwarf the Oddy. Good feeling.
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  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    They're massive alright, way too big. The science ship is literally the same size as the Atrox and Vo'quv carriers, no really I checked, its the same size as the biggest carriers in the game. The "escort" is smaller but its still way too big as well, it has the same wingspan as the D'Deridex.

    Problem is that those ships are the two components for the super cruiser model--when it splits into two, you get these two ships. And they want that ship to be bigger than the D'Deridex.

    But they are too damn big. They are soo big it is hard to visualize depth of field in my mind's eye on the 2D monitor surface, and I end up flying past stuff a lot. I mean the ships are bigger than borg sphere and I think I am far away but I am already past it. Sure I can train myself around it, but then I will have to readjust to the "normal" ships that are smaller than a Borg sphere. Its just annoying to fly them, and at present I've adopted a strategy of not using them.

    They need to make them smaller.
  • oracion666oracion666 Member Posts: 338 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    They're massive alright, way too big. The science ship is literally the same size as the Atrox and Vo'quv carriers, no really I checked, its the same size as the biggest carriers in the game. The "escort" is smaller but its still way too big as well, it has the same wingspan as the D'Deridex.

    Problem is that those ships are the two components for the super cruiser model--when it splits into two, you get these two ships. And they want that ship to be bigger than the D'Deridex.

    But they are too damn big. They are soo big it is hard to visualize depth of field in my mind's eye on the 2D monitor surface, and I end up flying past stuff a lot. I mean the ships are bigger than borg sphere and I think I am far away but I am already past it. Sure I can train myself around it, but then I will have to readjust to the "normal" ships that are smaller than a Borg sphere. Its just annoying to fly them, and at present I've adopted a strategy of not using them.

    They need to make them smaller.

    Quite a few ships out there are larger than a sphere. That is nothing new. And the size is meant to give a presence about the ship. The Tholian and Jemmy ships are on par, so if you shrink the Rommy cruisers, those also would have to be shrunk. Then so would nearly every other ship in game to keep the size ratio.
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  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    oracion666 wrote: »
    Quite a few ships out there are larger than a sphere.
    And those ships handle accordingly. The tac and sci ships do not handle like big ships, they are small ships with big ship graphics. Also, you mention the Tholian Recluse, it could fit inside the Romulan Tac ship.

    Its just wrong to have a ship with the stats of the Patrol Escort that is larger than the Fed's biggest battleship. You cant use any of the surroundings for reference anymore, and the game loses its consistent sense of physics and space.
  • baudlbaudl Member Posts: 4,016 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    They're massive alright, way too big. The science ship is literally the same size as the Atrox and Vo'quv carriers, no really I checked, its the same size as the biggest carriers in the game. The "escort" is smaller but its still way too big as well, it has the same wingspan as the D'Deridex.

    Problem is that those ships are the two components for the super cruiser model--when it splits into two, you get these two ships. And they want that ship to be bigger than the D'Deridex.

    But they are too damn big. They are soo big it is hard to visualize depth of field in my mind's eye on the 2D monitor surface, and I end up flying past stuff a lot. I mean the ships are bigger than borg sphere and I think I am far away but I am already past it. Sure I can train myself around it, but then I will have to readjust to the "normal" ships that are smaller than a Borg sphere. Its just annoying to fly them, and at present I've adopted a strategy of not using them.

    They need to make them smaller.

    i have the same problem with my valdore...but i think the scaling is alright compared to other ships.

    the 2 part mega cruiser i really think is too big, especially the escort part of it. appart from looking like 1950 black and white scifi show rocket with wings (yeah srsly, the t'liss BoP design looks more advanced than that thing) it is way too big to have that kind of turnrate. if i had somethingto say this 2 part monster would have never made it into the game...ever.
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  • voicesdarkvoicesdark Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    You know those perspective photos were you have something large and something small and you have to guess which one is larger, but it ends up through some optical trick that the smaller one is the larger one?

    Yeah that's not this... :D

    Rom ships aren't too big, other ships are too small.

    The main problem with ships in the game is that the Borg cubes, and spheres are WAY WAY too small.

    Romulan ships have always been huge, why would that be any different in STO.

    The other ships actually need to be scaled up, not the Roms down, and the Borg need this scaling most of all.
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  • fovrelfovrel Member Posts: 1,422 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Wanted to make a thread called The Big Ships, but I can do my story here.

    I have to say it is not a big problem and it is also a personal matter since I do not like big ships, but yes, the Romulan birds in the high tier are huge. My Tac sub admiral flies the Ha'kon, the science ship (yes, a tac in a science ship is pretty fun) and although there is nothing wrong with the stats, the ships is huge and there are windows everywhere. Even in the wings. What are all those people doing on my ship, and, what am I supposed to do with them?

    It does no longer feel as a space ship, but as an appartment building where the architect had to much freedom. It doesn't make sence. We are a people rebuilding a new home world. Yet, we have the resources to build and man gigantic starships.

    Then there is the Haakona. A big ship that can lanch ... another big ship. Fun for the player of course, but it doesn't make any sense. Let's say we have a huge aircraft carrier that can launch a couple of 52's. It doesn't exist and everybody knows why.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 13,663 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I love parking my little Fleet Rhode Island next to these huge ships.

    I'm sure it'd fit in their shuttle/hanger bays! :D


  • daboholicdaboholic Member Posts: 248 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    unikon wrote: »
    The Mogai always had a large wingspan. But overall volume was thinner than the Scimitar or Double D.

    Gotta love those huge wings. There's nothing better then swooping round, de-cloaking and unleashing a barrage of cannon fire :D

    As for the Ha'feh, that thing is a beast. I couldn't believe the turn rate of a ship that size was so good lol
  • oracion666oracion666 Member Posts: 338 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    fovrel wrote: »
    Wanted to make a thread called The Big Ships, but I can do my story here.

    I have to say it is not a big problem and it is also a personal matter since I do not like big ships, but yes, the Romulan birds in the high tier are huge. My Tac sub admiral flies the Ha'kon, the science ship (yes, a tac in a science ship is pretty fun) and although there is nothing wrong with the stats, the ships is huge and there are windows everywhere. Even in the wings. What are all those people doing on my ship, and, what am I supposed to do with them?

    It does no longer feel as a space ship, but as an appartment building where the architect had to much freedom. It doesn't make sence. We are a people rebuilding a new home world. Yet, we have the resources to build and man gigantic starships.

    Then there is the Haakona. A big ship that can lanch ... another big ship. Fun for the player of course, but it doesn't make any sense. Let's say we have a huge aircraft carrier that can launch a couple of 52's. It doesn't exist and everybody knows why.

    Simply because the Romulans lost their homeworld does not mean they lost their empire, which spanned a massive section of the alpha quadrant with parts of the beta. That equals to dozens, if not hundreds of colonized worlds that supply both manpower and supplies. They lost some during the transition from the solidified empire to the three factions now, but that doesn't equate to them having nothing, even D'Tans group. That 'could' potentially equal to billions of people on either side, if not more. So manning ships of this size is not impossible. My Haakona has a crew of 2000. Not even a drop in the bucket on the scale we are looking at.

    As for the ship sizes, the Romulans have always built big. The feds just now started getting into the whole 'giant ship' business in terms of ship size compared to the other powers of the quadrant.

    Technically speaking, wouldn't all ships be considered apartment buildings? The crew live and work in these floating hulks. Making them larger does not make any difference in that department.
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  • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,807 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I've got both free Ha'apex and the mirror Ha'apex and quite frankly i like them, the fact that they are a mobile-ish battle station make me laugh at all those feds in their tiny ships.:D
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      -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
    • seitei1seitei1 Member Posts: 131 Arc User
      edited May 2013
      Hmm. The Romulans have been space-borne for long periods twice now. First leaving Vulcan, now with the Romulan Diaspora. I imagine they really were 'mobile stations' or motherships, with people born, living, and dying on-ship.

      Ah, reminds me of Homeworld.

      Then of course there's the 'awe' factor. I imagine they impressed a lot of minor races into backing down/joining/submitting by decloaking those things near planets or ships, probably without a shot fired.

      Basically, it made sense to them, and still makes sense, to build big, over redundant.

      Probably why Sela wants Borg Tech. She wants to know how the Cubes build so big, so she can match their size with a new Warbird class. "NO-ONE beats the Empire in awe!"
    • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
      edited May 2013
      seitei1 wrote: »
      Hmm. The Romulans have been space-borne for long periods twice now. First leaving Vulcan, now with the Romulan Diaspora. I imagine they really were 'mobile stations' or motherships, with people born, living, and dying on-ship.

      Ah, reminds me of Homeworld.

      Then of course there's the 'awe' factor. I imagine they impressed a lot of minor races into backing down/joining/submitting by decloaking those things near planets or ships, probably without a shot fired.

      Basically, it made sense to them, and still makes sense, to build big, over redundant.

      Probably why Sela wants Borg Tech. She wants to know how the Cubes build so big, so she can match their size with a new Warbird class. "NO-ONE beats the Empire in awe!"

      There's also another rationale that might be at work here:
      during WW2 the Japanese knew they'd always be outnumbered by their enemies and determined they'd need to build the biggest and most powerful battleship possible.
      I think we all know what the result was.
      Given the limited size of Romulan space they probaly determined the same thing when comparing themselves to the Federation and the Klingons (who build smaller ships anyway) and went ahead and built thier giant Warbirds.
      Also from DS9 we know the smaller ship is, the harder it is to hide behind a cloak.
      So to get the most out of their cloaking device they probably had to build them as big too.

      Given their current situation I'd imagine most of the ships we see are actually leftover from before Hobus, including the Ha'apax and its variants.

      Newer ships (newer from an in-universe and an out-of universe perspective) might end up smaller...simply because it takes time to rebuild the bigger shipyards.
    • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
      edited May 2013
      misterde3 wrote: »
      Also from DS9 we know the smaller ship is, the harder it is to hide behind a cloak.
      So to get the most out of their cloaking device they probably had to build them as big too.

      If you're referring to the Defiant, that's not entirely accurate. The problem was that the cloaking device given to her was not designed for a ship with her power capabilities, and as such the cloak wasn't able to completely mask the ship.
      misterde3 wrote: »
      Given the limited size of Romulan space they probaly determined the same thing when comparing themselves to the Federation and the Klingons (who build smaller ships anyway) and went ahead and built thier giant Warbirds.

      Romulan battle doctrine (pre-Dominion war anyway, but even then we never really saw Romulan tactics in any venue other than joint operations) always seemed to be about a "shock and awe" approach, emphasizing overwhelming initial strikes/counterstrikes over long slugging matches.

      To that end, larger ships able to bring more weapons to bear on a target seem to fill the role.
      misterde3 wrote: »
      Given their current situation I'd imagine most of the ships we see are actually leftover from before Hobus, including the Ha'apax and its variants.

      Newer ships (newer from an in-universe and an out-of universe perspective) might end up smaller...simply because it takes time to rebuild the bigger shipyards.

      This I won't dispute, as it was a very similar rationale that birthed the generations of Federation Warships that shied away from the "space whale" concept.
    • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
      edited May 2013
      If you're referring to the Defiant, that's not entirely accurate. The problem was that the cloaking device given to her was not designed for a ship with her power capabilities, and as such the cloak wasn't able to completely mask the ship.

      O'BRIEN: "Commander, the Defiant's power signature is unusually high for a ship this size. The cloaking device may not be masking everything. "

      It's not the cloak, it's the ship's size to power ratio.;)
    • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
      edited May 2013
      misterde3 wrote: »
      O'BRIEN: "Commander, the Defiant's power signature is unusually high for a ship this size. The cloaking device may not be masking everything. "

      It's not the cloak, it's the ship's size to power ratio.;)


      Isn't that effectively exactly what I said? (I actually was hearing that line in my brain as I was typing up the reply for what it's worth)
    • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
      edited May 2013
      Isn't that effectively exactly what I said? (I actually was hearing that line as I was typing up the reply for what it's worth)

      If it is, then what's so inaccurate about my original statment?
    • shockwave85shockwave85 Member Posts: 1,040 Arc User
      edited May 2013
      I noticed this when I was leveling up and found myself outside K7 in my T2 Dhelan parked next to a guy in his T2 Connie Refit. I absolutely dwarfed him, and I was in essentially an escort. I don't really mind the Romulans having big, scary ships. It does play hell with the perception of how the game works though. We've always been told that the bigger a ship is, the worse its turn rate and inertia stats. This follows pretty well with all the Fed and KDF ships, scaling from fast and tiny raiders/BoPs all the way up through behemoth cruisers like the Galaxy, Odyssey and Bortasqu. The scale of the Romulan ships throws that off when you see a ship the size of the Dhelan spin around on a dime.
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    • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
      edited May 2013
      misterde3 wrote: »
      If it is, then what's so inaccurate about my original statment?

      Based on the original statement, you're operating under the assumption that a smaller ship is automatically harder to hide without taking into account power capacity:
      Also from DS9 we know the smaller ship is, the harder it is to hide behind a cloak.
      So to get the most out of their cloaking device they probably had to build them as big too.

      The overpowered nature of the Defiant relative to it's size, not it's small size alone, was the contributing factor to the inefficiency of the cloak.

      It may seem like a semantic distinction, but power ratios (generation, propulsion, shielding, etc.) are incredibly important when it comes to starship performance discussions.

      Thusly:
      IWe've always been told that the bigger a ship is, the worse its turn rate and inertia stats.

      That only holds true if every ship has an identical ratio of propulsion to mass/volume. That's the beauty of Newtonian physics in a zero-g environment: You can make anything, even a giant flying brick, dance if it's all engines.
    • ijimithyijimithy Member Posts: 0 Arc User
      edited May 2013
      This is one of the reasons i love my Mogai refit lol it's intimiatating and turns nearly on a dime lol that being said I am going to get the fleet escort for the Romulans the Ha'feh I think it is.
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    • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
      edited May 2013
      I'm too tired for this today.
    • tlamstriketlamstrike Member Posts: 0 Arc User
      edited May 2013
      I think we all know the reason why the Romulans have such large ships, to quote another Franchise:
      I have to assume that the reason you want to build more ships is, like other men, you like big machines with big engines that fire big missiles, because you have a deep-seated need to overcompensate for your own shortcomings.

      :P

      BTW I proudly fly my little T'varo. :D
      My Romulan Liberated Borg character made it to Level 30 and beat the (old) Defense of New Romulus with the skill point bug. :D
    • shockwave85shockwave85 Member Posts: 1,040 Arc User
      edited May 2013
      That only holds true if every ship has an identical ratio of propulsion to mass/volume. That's the beauty of Newtonian physics in a zero-g environment: You can make anything, even a giant flying brick, dance if it's all engines.

      In actual physics, yes. There's no reason a Galaxy couldn't fire a couple thrusters and spin right around on its axis. In Star Trek though, for likely dramatic reasons, the ships move like aircraft for the most part, almost always going forward and banking around. Why? Who knows. Some say it's because warp and impulse drives are such that they can only really propel the ship forward. We know they have RCS thrusters though, there's no reason the thrusters couldn't whip the ship around, and then kick on the big engines to get going.

      Anyway, when I say "we've always been told", I'm meaning from the devs. I remember when the Armitage came out, one of them was being interviewed and got questioned on why its turn rate is what it is. What came out was that, even though the Armitage is an escort, it has to be big enough to be a light carrier, so logically it gets more hull and less turn than a smaller escort. This carries all the way up through why the Galaxy and D'Deridex have so much hull, but turn like TRIBBLE. It's not a physics issue, it's game design.
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    • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
      edited May 2013
      In actual physics, yes. There's no reason a Galaxy couldn't fire a couple thrusters and spin right around on its axis. In Star Trek though, for likely dramatic reasons, the ships move like aircraft for the most part, almost always going forward and banking around. Why? Who knows. Some say it's because warp and impulse drives are such that they can only really propel the ship forward. We know they have RCS thrusters though, there's no reason the thrusters couldn't whip the ship around, and then kick on the big engines to get going.

      Inertia would like to have a word with you.
    • shockwave85shockwave85 Member Posts: 1,040 Arc User
      edited May 2013
      Depends on how powerful the thrusters are. In fact, in TNG: "Booby Trap", we see Picard do exactly what I'm talking about, whipping the ship around using an RCS thruster. It's the only time, but it proves it's doable.

      Also, yes, the spin would normally start out slower and accelerate as you continued to apply thrust. Unless, as I said, it's a pretty powerful thruster and you could do what you need with just a short burst.
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    • quiiliitiilaquiiliitiila Member Posts: 306 Arc User
      edited May 2013
      misterde3 wrote: »
      There's also another rationale that might be at work here:
      during WW2 the Japanese knew they'd always be outnumbered by their enemies and determined they'd need to build the biggest and most powerful battleship possible.
      I think we all know what the result was.

      I just have to call you on this one; Japan came within a spitting distance of winning the war in the pacific. They were *****-slapping us up and down the ocean, in the end it came down to luck and our ability to break the Japanese codes to turn around the war in the last seconds.
    • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
      edited May 2013
      I just have to call you on this one; Japan came within a spitting distance of winning the war in the pacific. They were *****-slapping us up and down the ocean, in the end it came down to luck and our ability to break the Japanese codes to turn around the war in the last seconds.

      Not even remotely true. Taking out the elite of the Imperial Navy's carrier corps in 42-43, and the introduction of aircraft that could outfly anything the Japanese could throw at the Americans turned the tide, not some last second hail-mary play.

      And by the by, the code breaking happened in early 1942.

      De is absolutely correct about his assertion regarding Japanese Battleships. The ability for carrier-launched strike craft (most notably dive and torpedo bombers) to sweep entire enemy fleets from the ocean was something the Imperial Navy was never able to effectively counter after 1943. Once they lost the air battle, the endpoint was inevitable, albeit extremely slow and costly to reach.
    • williampetersenwilliampetersen Member Posts: 30 Arc User
      edited May 2013
      Maybe I'm imagining things, but I seem to remember a long time ago that the Mogai-class was actually about escort-sized. I'm not sure when or why that changed (if I'm not going crazy).
    • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
      edited May 2013
      And those ships handle accordingly.

      All the Romulan ships have slower turn rates than their cross faction complements.
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