Not even remotely true. Taking out the elite of the Imperial Navy's carrier corps in 42-43, and the introduction of aircraft that could outfly anything the Japanese could throw at the Americans turned the tide, not some last second hail-mary play.
And by the by, the code breaking happened in early 1942.
De is absolutely correct about his assertion regarding Japanese Battleships. The ability for carrier-launched strike craft (most notably dive and torpedo bombers) to sweep entire enemy fleets from the ocean was something the Imperial Navy was never able to effectively counter after 1943. Once they lost the air battle, the endpoint was inevitable, albeit extremely slow and costly to reach.
Ok, I may have exaggerated a bit. :P
My point was that the Japanese gave us one hell of a run for our money and it wasn't until we launched better ships and aircraft that we then began to roll them.
Had the Japanese been able to make aircraft to counter our counters, they would've had a chance to continue the push. However, they only had so much fuel and resources most of which they had already used and or committed to the war effort.
What I'm trying to say is that initially, the Japanese mindset of bigger = better did work well until we developed a counter to it. It was not a doomed idea from the start and had they had the money and materials to counter us again, history may be very different.
What I'm trying to say is that initially, the Japanese mindset of bigger = better did work well until we developed a counter to it. It was not a doomed idea from the start and had they had the money and materials to counter us again, history may be very different.
Except it didn't. Early Japanese success came primarily because of their Carrier-based forces, not from their battleships.
Were naval guns helpful in the invasions of multiple Allied outposts in the pacific? Yes, they were. But the strategic atmosphere that allowed those guns to get close enough to be useful was made possible almost entirely by Imperial Navy air power.
Incorrect. The Ha'feh escort has the same turn-rate as the Patrol Escort. The Ha'nom science vessel has a slighty lower turn-rate than the Tier-5 fed sci ships, but only slightly--10 for the Romulan ship, 9-13 for the Feds.
There is no connection between size and manueverability at all here
this is where game mechanics>real world logic
also who is to say do to there inclination to making large ships that have also found a way to make the engines in them handle the mass better
also donlt you dare make them shrink my Haaakona i love flying my mobile starbase:D (as feally the republic uses the ha'apax as a starbase in the flotilla)
Maybe I'm imagining things, but I seem to remember a long time ago that the Mogai-class was actually about escort-sized. I'm not sure when or why that changed (if I'm not going crazy).
Maybe with the loss of their homeworld(s), and the general refugee impression we get from the displaced Romulans, they felt that it was better to build larger colony or generational-like vessels which they could feasibly live on without the need for a planet.
If I remember correctly, the only ships they had larger than the D'Derix were the Scimitar, and in "Nemesis" that was supposed to be a single ship that was built just for the Human Clone that lead at the time. Other than that the Romulan Ships were pretty much in scale with Federation and Klingon ships.
Now I can see the Romulans wanting to build bigger ships for the awe and majesty factor, that's fine, Romulans always "KNEW" themselves to be better than everyone else, and their ships should show that grandeur and majesty. I'd just like some of the older ship designs like the D7 and T'liss be available to end game players (not expecting it but I can wish). I for one am not overly happy with the expansion, don't care much for the ships past first tier, and absolutely LOATH the guy I am forced to have on my crew.
As far as "Physics" reasons why a bigger ship can turn on a dime, the ships are powered by Singularities, seems to me they already gain special powers for them, why not just figure that a Singularity, (which I believe has a pretty serious gravitational force since a Rommy ship dies in a black hole), could be utilized to allow a ship of any size to turn any way it wants. If you have the science to spawn a singularity and harness it's power, why not have the tech to harness it for other means?
Romulans Built big ole ships, its canon, and the new Cryptic designs are in line with the size of the larger ships.
With all the TRIBBLE they already get about ship scales, they aren't going to make romulan ships from canon all of a sudden tiny compared to what they are supposed to be.
I don't mind the huge Romulan ships, wide ships are easy to maneuver. What I do mind is the Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer, which is obnoxiously large but very narrow. This has the undesired effect of making it damn near impossible to put my cannons on a new target in close quarters, I can turn but the damn ship ends up sticking its nose out a full kilometer from what I'm trying to kill.
I don't mind the huge Romulan ships, wide ships are easy to maneuver. What I do mind is the Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer, which is obnoxiously large but very narrow. This has the undesired effect of making it damn near impossible to put my cannons on a new target in close quarters, I can turn but the damn ship ends up sticking its nose out a full kilometer from what I'm trying to kill.
Yeah, I'm still trying to get used to her on my sci, but I'm sure I'll get the hang of it. My thing with it, though, is how, with the right coloration, she blends into the background :rolleyes:
Formerly known as Echo@Rivyn13
Member since early 2011
To the OP: Why are you flying past targets? It tells you exactly how far away you are from them. Right on the screen, right on the target you are "eyeballing" right past.:eek:
The models are fine. Every Star Trek game that has had Romulan ships in them, has them big. I know that is not canon but it is the loose culture surrounding Romulan ships. They are big.
I think you need to quit whining about adjusting to ship sizes and just let people play the game and ships they like. If a ship is too big for you to handle, there are plenty of tiny ships for you to play. Don't mess up things for other people because you can't read distance.
Sorry that sounds harsh.:D
The ships are fine.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Help rebuild the Romulan Star Empire to glory. Click the banner to join today.
My point was that the Japanese gave us one hell of a run for our money and it wasn't until we launched better ships and aircraft that we then began to roll them.
Omg wrong in sooooo many ways. There was no aircraft that was built that could match a Japanese Zero in flight ability. Secondly, the tide turned after the Battle of Midway, in which the US managed (yes, MANAGED) to kill most of the Japanese veteran pilots/aces.
So the ONLY reason the US won was because the Japanese ran out of GOOD PILOTS, not because of newer aircraft tech. I mean, why else would something like the Marianas Turkey Shoot happen? Those pilots were practically green. And they went up against hardened veteran American aviators. If it was the old pilots, the veterans/aces, it would have been very different.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
"I maintain that the effectiveness of the Star Destroyer stems from not only its massive firepower, but from its size. When citizens look at a Star Destroyer and then compare it to the craft which might be mustered to attack it, they have a tendency to dismiss such a notion as suicidal rather than approach the problem tactically."
Omg wrong in sooooo many ways. There was no aircraft that was built that could match a Japanese Zero in flight ability. Secondly, the tide turned after the Battle of Midway, in which the US managed (yes, MANAGED) to kill most of the Japanese veteran pilots/aces.
So the ONLY reason the US won was because the Japanese ran out of GOOD PILOTS, not because of newer aircraft tech. I mean, why else would something like the Marianas Turkey Shoot happen? Those pilots were practically green. And they went up against hardened veteran American aviators. If it was the old pilots, the veterans/aces, it would have been very different.
The Japanese ran out of pilots? I thought they had a standing army of two million men before we dropped the bomb on them. They couldn't draw from that? My understanding was that they ran out of fuel for their plans, and had to resort to kamikaze attacks.
Formerly known as Echo@Rivyn13
Member since early 2011
The Japanese ran out of pilots? I thought they had a standing army of two million men before we dropped the bomb on them. They couldn't draw from that? My understanding was that they ran out of fuel for their plans, and had to resort to kamikaze attacks.
They may have had a standing army of two million soldiers, but of those two million how many were actually skilled pilots that could fly a Zero in ways that had American pilots unable to even come close to keeping up? Not a whole lot. Maybe a few hundred, if that. And as I said, most of them were killed at Midway.
You run out of good pilots, and your newbies can't keep up with the American vets, you resort to... alternate tactics, ie the Kamikaze (which means Divine Wind, a term that is often used satirically to refer to farts). So it's official people. The Japanese gave us the raspberry.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
The Japanese ran out of pilots? I thought they had a standing army of two million men before we dropped the bomb on them. They couldn't draw from that? My understanding was that they ran out of fuel for their plans, and had to resort to kamikaze attacks.
Most of the pilots Japan fielded at that point hadn't even passed basic flight training, but were competent enough to at least take off and navigate to their target. It was a one way trip from the getgo.
The planes of WW2 were not easy to fly. Most had a high degree of engine torque that had to be trimmed (unless you wanted a very tired arm) and could be lethal on take-off. Then there was gun convergence to take into account as well as proper fuel mixture so the engine didn't stall as you gained or lost altitude.
Another essential skill was learning how to take off, fly, and land in a cross wind... the latter being deadly if you didn't know what you were doing. Engine torque could be deadly on take-off and it's how the F4U Corsair got it's nickname, "Ensign Eliminator."
Despite all those soldiers, they couldn't just hop into a Zero and be expected to take off without crashing without some significant training on the basics. Then there were Air Combat Manuevers, which is a component those pilots at Leyette Gulf lacked despite knowing how to fly.
Eric Hartmann, the highest ranking Ace of WW2 almost lost his pilot status for crashing on take-off due to engine torque early in his career. The Bf-109 was relatively easy to fly compared to many of the other planes of the era.
The Romulan Bird-of-Prey (aka the T'liss) is a "light cruiser" aka destroyer/corvette/escort, and its size is appropriate and correct relative to the other attack-style ships.
So, no, the new ships are not fine. Specifically the escort and science vessel are way too big for their purpose and are not at all correctly sized relative to other ships of the class or even other ROMULAN ships of the class. The whole problem is STO wanted a fancy cruiser that would be humongous and that meant making the constituent ships humongous. Now we're even further from ST and we've got craptastic ships. But they look cool. GG
The Romulan Bird-of-Prey (aka the T'liss) is a "light cruiser" aka destroyer/corvette/escort, and its size is appropriate and correct relative to the other attack-style ships.
So, no, the new ships are not fine. Specifically the escort and science vessel are way too big for their purpose and are not at all correctly sized relative to other ships of the class or even other ROMULAN ships of the class. The whole problem is STO wanted a fancy cruiser that would be humongous and that meant making the constituent ships humongous. Now we're even further from ST and we've got craptastic ships. But they look cool. GG
I'm not the OP but I'll just point out that yeah I have my two Rommies flying a T'varo, and the warturds are serving as storage ships.
So what were your thoughts when the Oddy and Bortas came to the field? Those ships dwarfed nearly every other ship in game during their debut.
Formerly known as Echo@Rivyn13
Member since early 2011
The reason why I am with the Romulan Ships Are Too Big crowd is the question why. Why something big when something smaller gets the job done to. It is easier to make a small thing than a big thing, less resources. Are you going to build a huge palace when you only need a home. Do Romulans have an ego problem? It seems so. What do you know about the enemy forces? Ehh, ... our ships are bigger .... ok, that will scare them of.
So there is a scale problem, which is an immersion breaker for me. Or Romulans are big size fettishist when it comes to space ship. A thing that doesn't make much sense for a technological highly developped space travelling species.
And in the end, I am getting stick with surrounding objects. I often take up a spot in a free space area and fire from a distance, pulling the enemy towards me. You don't going to do battle somewhere where you cannot manoeuvre and the big ship has more space and needs more space.
I always assumed the Romulans built the giant ships due to their use of a singularity as a power source. If you remember, the Defiant had a lot of problems carrying a big warship class power plant in the small hull......I imagine it would be vastly more difficult to do the same with a singularity drive.
Also, the most likely reason the Romulans have huge ships is because it made them more threatening on TV to have that massive Double D decloaking right on top of the Enterprise. It really helps with the "Oh ****' factor.
The D'deridex
The Scimitar
The Valdore
The Enterprise "Drone" ship
The Narada
Romulan ships are supposed to be huge. Romulans are nothing if not dramatic, look at those Uniforms of theirs
Besides thinking about it logically for deep space travel, ships should be bigger. It needs to be big enough to support its own central mass what with a singularity core active (I think, my boyfriend is the physicist but hes away) Ultimately I know ships should be bigger
Regardless, Romulan ship sizes are as close to cannon as possible. You think the Tal Shiar ships are big now? Wait till you see the Scimitar ^_^
THE ARTIST FORMALLY KNOWN AS TRYULIS Vice Admiral Dir Sonatra, I.R.W. Kholairlha, Scimitar Class Warbird Vice Admiral Oshin S'ree, USS Steamrunner, Steamrunner Class
Well if it is because of the singularity, then we have the question how does that work on small ships and crafts. The T?Varo has a singularity, the shuttles have one. This tells us that volume isn?t mandatory for the use of singularity as a power resource.
Also wouldn?t it be more likely that a big vessel has a couple of power resources. It would have 3 or 4 singularities. Just as the Titanic had not one big boiler, but a number of them.
Now I know it becomes all to technically and to realistically and we don?t need it in a computer game. But talking like that, we can easily have smaller Romulan vessels, there is no canon argument that cannot support that.
Soon we will get the Scimitar as it seems. Another big ship, well I already have one.
The really big Romulan ships are meant to be terror weapons to intimidate their enemies. When it comes to actual efficiency as weapons of war, they are lacking.
Comments
Ok, I may have exaggerated a bit. :P
My point was that the Japanese gave us one hell of a run for our money and it wasn't until we launched better ships and aircraft that we then began to roll them.
Had the Japanese been able to make aircraft to counter our counters, they would've had a chance to continue the push. However, they only had so much fuel and resources most of which they had already used and or committed to the war effort.
What I'm trying to say is that initially, the Japanese mindset of bigger = better did work well until we developed a counter to it. It was not a doomed idea from the start and had they had the money and materials to counter us again, history may be very different.
-Quiiliitiila
Except it didn't. Early Japanese success came primarily because of their Carrier-based forces, not from their battleships.
Were naval guns helpful in the invasions of multiple Allied outposts in the pacific? Yes, they were. But the strategic atmosphere that allowed those guns to get close enough to be useful was made possible almost entirely by Imperial Navy air power.
this is where game mechanics>real world logic
also who is to say do to there inclination to making large ships that have also found a way to make the engines in them handle the mass better
also donlt you dare make them shrink my Haaakona i love flying my mobile starbase:D (as feally the republic uses the ha'apax as a starbase in the flotilla)
It was way to small:
http://www.st-v-sw.net/images/Trek/Movies/Nemesis_ship_comparison_anddd2.jpg
there are no secrets in STO, everybody has everybody else' equipment
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
Uh ... I mean you do see the hilarity of what you just posted right?
Now I can see the Romulans wanting to build bigger ships for the awe and majesty factor, that's fine, Romulans always "KNEW" themselves to be better than everyone else, and their ships should show that grandeur and majesty. I'd just like some of the older ship designs like the D7 and T'liss be available to end game players (not expecting it but I can wish). I for one am not overly happy with the expansion, don't care much for the ships past first tier, and absolutely LOATH the guy I am forced to have on my crew.
As far as "Physics" reasons why a bigger ship can turn on a dime, the ships are powered by Singularities, seems to me they already gain special powers for them, why not just figure that a Singularity, (which I believe has a pretty serious gravitational force since a Rommy ship dies in a black hole), could be utilized to allow a ship of any size to turn any way it wants. If you have the science to spawn a singularity and harness it's power, why not have the tech to harness it for other means?
With all the TRIBBLE they already get about ship scales, they aren't going to make romulan ships from canon all of a sudden tiny compared to what they are supposed to be.
Cryptic crew wants make an awesome ship, if that means TRIBBLE up the gameplay then oh well
Canon? We are 30 years down the line from any of the current canon.
Member since early 2011
Yeah, I'm still trying to get used to her on my sci, but I'm sure I'll get the hang of it. My thing with it, though, is how, with the right coloration, she blends into the background :rolleyes:
Member since early 2011
The models are fine. Every Star Trek game that has had Romulan ships in them, has them big. I know that is not canon but it is the loose culture surrounding Romulan ships. They are big.
I think you need to quit whining about adjusting to ship sizes and just let people play the game and ships they like. If a ship is too big for you to handle, there are plenty of tiny ships for you to play. Don't mess up things for other people because you can't read distance.
Sorry that sounds harsh.:D
The ships are fine.
Help rebuild the Romulan Star Empire to glory. Click the banner to join today.
Omg wrong in sooooo many ways. There was no aircraft that was built that could match a Japanese Zero in flight ability. Secondly, the tide turned after the Battle of Midway, in which the US managed (yes, MANAGED) to kill most of the Japanese veteran pilots/aces.
So the ONLY reason the US won was because the Japanese ran out of GOOD PILOTS, not because of newer aircraft tech. I mean, why else would something like the Marianas Turkey Shoot happen? Those pilots were practically green. And they went up against hardened veteran American aviators. If it was the old pilots, the veterans/aces, it would have been very different.
And so it is with the warbird.
And I do hope the Devs included a tailpipe to drop a photon torpedo down while I'm at it.
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The Japanese ran out of pilots? I thought they had a standing army of two million men before we dropped the bomb on them. They couldn't draw from that? My understanding was that they ran out of fuel for their plans, and had to resort to kamikaze attacks.
Member since early 2011
They may have had a standing army of two million soldiers, but of those two million how many were actually skilled pilots that could fly a Zero in ways that had American pilots unable to even come close to keeping up? Not a whole lot. Maybe a few hundred, if that. And as I said, most of them were killed at Midway.
You run out of good pilots, and your newbies can't keep up with the American vets, you resort to... alternate tactics, ie the Kamikaze (which means Divine Wind, a term that is often used satirically to refer to farts). So it's official people. The Japanese gave us the raspberry.
Mogai is canon, it's wingspan is about what any of the new ships are, it has a turn rate of 14.
That means all the other ships are fine.
Most of the pilots Japan fielded at that point hadn't even passed basic flight training, but were competent enough to at least take off and navigate to their target. It was a one way trip from the getgo.
The planes of WW2 were not easy to fly. Most had a high degree of engine torque that had to be trimmed (unless you wanted a very tired arm) and could be lethal on take-off. Then there was gun convergence to take into account as well as proper fuel mixture so the engine didn't stall as you gained or lost altitude.
Another essential skill was learning how to take off, fly, and land in a cross wind... the latter being deadly if you didn't know what you were doing. Engine torque could be deadly on take-off and it's how the F4U Corsair got it's nickname, "Ensign Eliminator."
Despite all those soldiers, they couldn't just hop into a Zero and be expected to take off without crashing without some significant training on the basics. Then there were Air Combat Manuevers, which is a component those pilots at Leyette Gulf lacked despite knowing how to fly.
Eric Hartmann, the highest ranking Ace of WW2 almost lost his pilot status for crashing on take-off due to engine torque early in his career. The Bf-109 was relatively easy to fly compared to many of the other planes of the era.
The Romulan Bird-of-Prey (aka the T'liss) is a "light cruiser" aka destroyer/corvette/escort, and its size is appropriate and correct relative to the other attack-style ships.
So, no, the new ships are not fine. Specifically the escort and science vessel are way too big for their purpose and are not at all correctly sized relative to other ships of the class or even other ROMULAN ships of the class. The whole problem is STO wanted a fancy cruiser that would be humongous and that meant making the constituent ships humongous. Now we're even further from ST and we've got craptastic ships. But they look cool. GG
I'm not the OP but I'll just point out that yeah I have my two Rommies flying a T'varo, and the warturds are serving as storage ships.
So what were your thoughts when the Oddy and Bortas came to the field? Those ships dwarfed nearly every other ship in game during their debut.
Member since early 2011
Having a sci ship with the same stats as Fed RSV that is the size of a Bortas is not fine.
I have three words for you. Video. Game. Physics.
Reality? No.
Mindless Entertainment? Yes.
So there is a scale problem, which is an immersion breaker for me. Or Romulans are big size fettishist when it comes to space ship. A thing that doesn't make much sense for a technological highly developped space travelling species.
And in the end, I am getting stick with surrounding objects. I often take up a spot in a free space area and fire from a distance, pulling the enemy towards me. You don't going to do battle somewhere where you cannot manoeuvre and the big ship has more space and needs more space.
Also, the most likely reason the Romulans have huge ships is because it made them more threatening on TV to have that massive Double D decloaking right on top of the Enterprise. It really helps with the "Oh ****' factor.
The Scimitar
The Valdore
The Enterprise "Drone" ship
The Narada
Romulan ships are supposed to be huge. Romulans are nothing if not dramatic, look at those Uniforms of theirs
Besides thinking about it logically for deep space travel, ships should be bigger. It needs to be big enough to support its own central mass what with a singularity core active (I think, my boyfriend is the physicist but hes away) Ultimately I know ships should be bigger
Regardless, Romulan ship sizes are as close to cannon as possible. You think the Tal Shiar ships are big now? Wait till you see the Scimitar ^_^
Vice Admiral Dir Sonatra, I.R.W. Kholairlha, Scimitar Class Warbird
Vice Admiral Oshin S'ree, USS Steamrunner, Steamrunner Class
TEN FORWARD FLEET
Also wouldn?t it be more likely that a big vessel has a couple of power resources. It would have 3 or 4 singularities. Just as the Titanic had not one big boiler, but a number of them.
Now I know it becomes all to technically and to realistically and we don?t need it in a computer game. But talking like that, we can easily have smaller Romulan vessels, there is no canon argument that cannot support that.
Soon we will get the Scimitar as it seems. Another big ship, well I already have one.