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Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

Mirror Universe Borg are they they good guys ?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited February 2012 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
Just wondering how on earth would the borg exist in the mirror universe if good is bad and bad is good :)
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    my guese is... kill first... assimilate later.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    The Mirror Borg are like Santa Claus. They travel around the universe giving gifts to the less fortunate species.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    The softest canon version.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    From what i've gathered in the Mirror universe episodes, is that Humanity and it's resultant Terran Empire are the only real change between universes. Everyone else seems about the same, although those civilizations affected by the Terran Empire, are also a bit darker. At least those are my observations. I would imagine The Mirror Universe's Borg is very similar to our Borg
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    The Borg aren't evil in the prime universe so therefore they couldn't be good in the mirror universe. So I would go as far as saying that in the mirror universe they are exactly the same.

    On the other hand, their only purpose is the quest for perfection. It is possible that in the mirror universe that wouldn't be the case and therefore they wouldn't be the same Borg. Their "mirror quest" would dictate their actions.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    The rest of the mirror universe isn't the opposite of what they are in the prime universe. The spiraling effects of the Terran Empire's rampage have left their mark, but the Klingons and Cardassians are still much the same in both universes, Vulcans acted the same at First Contact but changed later (most likely the intentional destruction of their culture by the terrans).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I do think there are more diffences than only those affected by the TE. Mirror Feregi where mostly the heroic type (and one got killed for heorism in every mirror episode ;) ). Except Nog afaik, but in that he was also the mirror of prime Nog.

    Mirror borg could be some kind of nice-guys, assimilating only as answer to aggression. Maybe with off-time from the collective mind for individual development. For all we know they could be more like the federation.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    anothername wrote: »
    I do think there are more diffences than only those affected by the TE. Mirror Feregi where mostly the heroic type (and one got killed for heorism in every mirror episode ;) ). Except Nog afaik, but in that he was also the mirror of prime Nog.

    Mirror borg could be some kind of nice-guys, assimilating only as answer to aggression. Maybe with off-time from the collective mind for individual development. For all we know they could be more like the federation.

    most likely extinct if the Terran Empire/Federation know where the live.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I seem to remember hearing that the borg don't exist in the mirror universe. No V'ger probe either.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Heh, I played a Foundry mission that revolved around this question. I wish I could remember the name, it started from the glowing internal organ system in the Beta Urse sector. Guest stared a female orion pirate... and I enjoyed it.

    The mission I mean... not the pirate...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    anothername wrote: »
    I do think there are more diffences than only those affected by the TE. Mirror Feregi where mostly the heroic type (and one got killed for heorism in every mirror episode ;) ). Except Nog afaik, but in that he was also the mirror of prime Nog.

    Mirror borg could be some kind of nice-guys, assimilating only as answer to aggression. Maybe with off-time from the collective mind for individual development. For all we know they could be more like the federation.

    I blame that on the Terrans stripping them of their mercantile religion and enslaving them.

    That "Four dimensional" line in First Contact implied that there is one collective across all universes.

    Also, the big canon clue we have on Borg suggests they began at least 200,000 years ago. If their history diverged that far back, it seems unlikely anything would be familiar.

    (Interesting thing, though. 200k years is the minimum age for the Borg and also roughly when the Iconians disappeared.)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Tanhouser wrote:
    Heh, I played a Foundry mission that revolved around this question. I wish I could remember the name, it started from the glowing internal organ system in the Beta Urse sector. Guest stared a female orion pirate... and I enjoyed it.

    The mission I mean... not the pirate...

    I remember that one. Honestly just baffled me, said that the Mirror universe Borg were actually the Orion Syndicate's at-will enslavement program... The farther I went the weirder it got, like silver age DC comic writers had taken over Star Trek.

    More recent mission, Own Worst Enemy, also deals with mirror universe borg, and also comes up with a pretty clever hack to let you meet the mirror universe version of your ship.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Jeslyn wrote:
    The Mirror Borg are like Santa Claus. They travel around the universe giving gifts to the less fortunate species.

    ^^^ This! Most definitely this!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    They are the same but opposite. That means their main operating system is windows vista. Because they couldn't load service pack 3 they continually get a crash during the beginning of the assimulation announcement.

    Due to contractual arrangements they are forced into all microsoft products which means they are running access for their database. Yet anytime they run a query on any species over 8470 it bring the entire system down.

    Never mind all the backdoors into the system that even the Kazon can hack their system and put them all to sleep. Needless to say the Borg in the mirror universe are the most well rested people anywhere

    8D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Tanhouser wrote:
    Heh, I played a Foundry mission that revolved around this question. I wish I could remember the name, it started from the glowing internal organ system in the Beta Urse sector. Guest stared a female orion pirate... and I enjoyed it.

    The mission I mean... not the pirate...

    I played that one too, and rather liked it < . .> It WAS odd, but odd doesn't mean bad.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    CAPTWinters wrote:
    From what i've gathered in the Mirror universe episodes, is that Humanity and it's resultant Terran Empire are the only real change between universes. Everyone else seems about the same, although those civilizations affected by the Terran Empire, are also a bit darker. At least those are my observations. I would imagine The Mirror Universe's Borg is very similar to our Borg

    I believe this is the answer...and on page one.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    If I was the Klingons in the mirror universe, I would send raids to beam over piles of tribbles. Since the Mirror Borg assimilate anything that sets foot on their ship, they would assimilate the tribbles. In theory, they should bring over two important traits. The fact that tribble eat all the time and they are pregnant all the time.

    Then let the hijinks ensue!

    "We are the Borg. Your quadrotriticale will be added to our bellies. Resistance is futile."
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    In my opinion the Borg are a force of nature rather then an entity. Their machine society is neither good nor evil. They assimilate to progress. Whether assimilating an "evil" Federation or a "good" one is irrelevant to them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    This is a great thread. A race of cyborgs that go around and enhance and improve species, with permission of coarse.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    attilio wrote: »
    The Borg aren't evil in the prime universe so therefore they couldn't be good in the mirror universe. So I would go as far as saying that in the mirror universe they are exactly the same.

    On the other hand, their only purpose is the quest for perfection. It is possible that in the mirror universe that wouldn't be the case and therefore they wouldn't be the same Borg. Their "mirror quest" would dictate their actions.

    Destroying societies abducting their citizens violating them. Mutilating them and changing them physically to serve their purpose. While destroying their free thought and enslaving them to do the same to others, is evil.

    Killing any species they can't force to do their biding is evil.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    CAPTWinters wrote:
    From what i've gathered in the Mirror universe episodes, is that Humanity and it's resultant Terran Empire are the only real change between universes. Everyone else seems about the same, although those civilizations affected by the Terran Empire, are also a bit darker. At least those are my observations. I would imagine The Mirror Universe's Borg is very similar to our Borg

    Dang. I always thought the Mirror Universe was the Soviet Russia of Star Trek. But what you're saying makes perfect sense.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Englebert wrote:
    This is a great thread. A race of cyborgs that go around and enhance and improve species, with permission of coarse.

    I do like that but I think it works better with the Borg Cooperative we saw in Voyager and Rogue Borg maybe getting transformed into something else.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    The Mirror Borg have goatees and is ruled by a King who doesn't give a .... .
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I would think that in the mirror universe the Borg are homebodies who never leave their planet. Just hang out and reject things instead of assimilate them.

    "Want to go out in space and conquer a bunch of aliens?"
    "Naw."

    They are also free thinkers.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    attilio wrote: »
    The Borg aren't evil in the prime universe so therefore they couldn't be good in the mirror universe. So I would go as far as saying that in the mirror universe they are exactly the same.

    Exactly. Like someone said in an episode of Voyager: The Borg are a force of nature. You don't get mad at the coming storm, you just avoid it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    The Borg are the same across all the universes because the Borg are neither good nor bad, they simply "are". And, like the Q, they have a purpose across all the universes which is neither good nor bad. It is likely that the queen(s) are simply all connected across all possible universes so their missions and purposes never diverge.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I don't think the Borg are likely to change in any universe unless something drastic occurred. It's assimilation by force and any attempts at resistance is futile. The Borg in the non-mirror universe don't seem that aggressive either, when they encounter a lesser advanced species they tend to leave them alone and they also announce to vessels they're about to assimilate that'd it'd just be easier to surrender than put up a fight. I would imagine the Borg in the mirror universe would be the opposite, either assimilating/destroying lesser species regardless of technology and never hailing a ship they plan to assimilate, and taking care of intruders who board their vessels too. I'd say the Borg in the non mirror universe are about as "good" as you're going to get.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Englebert wrote:
    Destroying societies abducting their citizens violating them. Mutilating them and changing them physically to serve their purpose. While destroying their free thought and enslaving them to do the same to others, is evil.

    Killing any species they can't force to do their biding is evil.

    From our point of view they are evil. From their point of view they are simply trying to reach perfection. They don't have any malicious intent. Do the means justify the end? We say no, they say yes.

    So if the Borg do not think they are doing good or bad; if they do not bother with the idea of what is right or wrong, then they cannot be good or bad.

    Is a shark evil because it kills a human? No, because it doesn't have morals. The Borg are the same way.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Doomfrost wrote: »
    I don't think the Borg are likely to change in any universe unless something drastic occurred. It's assimilation by force and any attempts at resistance is futile. The Borg in the non-mirror universe don't seem that aggressive either, when they encounter a lesser advanced species they tend to leave them alone and they also announce to vessels they're about to assimilate that'd it'd just be easier to surrender than put up a fight. I would imagine the Borg in the mirror universe would be the opposite, either assimilating/destroying lesser species regardless of technology and never hailing a ship they plan to assimilate, and taking care of intruders who board their vessels too. I'd say the Borg in the non mirror universe are about as "good" as you're going to get.

    The Borg in the prime universe have a tendency to migrate to other universes. The first thing they would have done is ended up in the easily-accessible mirror universe so they would have assimilated each other early on. The Iconians probably did the exact same thing, moved to a universe where they could consolidate their power and be free from enemies that sought to overwhelm and destroy them. The timeline for the Iconians and the Borg is very similar and the Iconians probably created the planet killers to destroy the Borg, then left the prime universe for one where the Borg didn't exist or weren't a threat.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I was rather fond of Diane Duane's initial concept that the differences in the two universes were oddly cultural and from something very deep-seated, almost metaphysical. Picard, in the book <I>Dark Mirror,</I> did some research and found the earliest cultural difference was in <I>The Illiad.</I> In our version, Achilles is moved to tears by Priam's plea to release to him the body of his son, Hector. In the Mirror Illiad, Achilles kills Priam. Going from there, including some disturbing changes to Shakespeare and the Bible, things get increasingly different and changed.

    In the Mirror Shatnerverse, of course, Jimmy T becomes Emperor Tiberius. :eek:

    I tend to not like the canon TNG changes to the mirror universe. I see the Mirror Universe as, somehow, ethically opposite our own, and yet some external force or inertia of some kind is keeping it as a 'mirror.' Or is that external force affecting OUR universe? Or both? It makes for a fascinating philosophical problem especially when you throw in Calvinist theology! But I can see why the writers decided not to go that route; it plays serious havoc with Trek's themes of free agency and self-determination, that we are responsible for our own actions.

    So it's a good question as to what was up with the Borg. I think it depends on the nature of the Queen. if she is in fact an independent operator, even a simulacrum of one generated by the Borg Collective itself, then the Borg are not strictly speaking as much of a 'force of nature,' and their nature could be affected by whatever 'alignment inversion' affects the Mirror Universe. But if the Borg are pretty much 'ALL ASSIMILATION, ALL THE TIME -- what? No, we don't want any cookies, Thin Mints are irrelevant,' and are a 'force of nature' then they have all the alignment to invert of a supernova, and will probably be more or less the same. I lean towards the 'force of nature' view of the Borg.
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