I am considering changing the D'deridex Retrofit to the following:
Ensign Tac, Lt. Com Tac, Commander Eng, Lt. Com Sci, En Universal
Consoles would most likely be adjusted as well if this change was made, probably to 3-3-3 on the Retrofit and 3-4-3 (4 Eng) on the Fleet version.
As always, these are just possible changes - nothing is set in stone.
That change to the D'deridex sounds pretty good actually. It reminds me a lot of the setup my Tactical Odyssey runs with as far as BOFFs and the consoles should work out alright. If you fly that with a Tactical Captain you should be able to get some notable punch out of it without completely sacrificing your tank.
It's odd that some folks are looking at the proposed D'deridex changes and seeing an Odyssey or even a Regent. When I look at them, I picture somebody trying to Tac in a Recluse...or maybe what I'm seeing is odd and what they're seeing is perfectly normal.
I will be going ahead and making the proposed changes to the D'deridex Retrofit and the Fleet D'deridex.
The Dhelan and Mogai issue is a lot trickier; some people seem to like the current setup, others would prefer to revert it. There are some compelling arguments for both sides. For the time being, I am keeping the BOFFs and consoles as-is.
As always, these changes are not final, and still subject to possible change.
We will continue to monitor the feedback here, and I'm looking forward to seeing a lot more comments once we unlock access to all of the higher level content and ships.
The d'deridex changes will be awesome
Well if you do end up keeping the layouts as is please make the vet ship like the previous mogai. Because there is no reason to have two destroyer type ships with basically so similar console and boff layouts.. It would also feel cheap and pointless. If you decide to go around this route you will be abandoning the consistency of the vet destroyers
What would be truly awesome if you made a fleet valdor or something with the previous set up and fleet The refit Dhelan. Which had the other layout...
But honestly I still think they are too similar with there setups to fed ships, while some people might like that because its what they are use to aren't these ships suppose to give people new ship experiences? I mean you could argue battle cloak and singularity abilities make them different. But the basic game play of the ships is essentially the same, with a few more innate abilities.
I also believe romulans have always been more about tactical/science sure there engineering is first rate especially after tos. The cloak and dagger style best suits a science abilities especially the control and placate/confuse stuff.
The mogai's helping the enterprise were quickly taken out of the fight much faster then the enterprise. With this engineering set up though it could easily go on par defensively with a assault cruiser.. Though one could argue that he was hoping to disable the enterprise but I doubt it at that point he knew that the transfusion wouldn't help him he had already degraded to far.
If anyone wonders why the mogai didn't cloak it was likely because the scimitar could probably easily detect them, due to knowing the mogai exact cloaking capabilities, it would have been a waste of power.
I think that the Tactical/Engineering scheme makes much more sense for a 'Destroyer' like the Mogai than the Tactical/Science scheme. Also, if it were to revert to the Tactical/Science spread, it would need some secondary changes to support that layout, such as the greater shielding of Science vessels or an auxiliary power bonus, neither of which fit with the Mogai's aesthetic.
EDIT: And I posted about two minutes late. Oops.
This. The Mogai's 10 weapon power and 5 engine power bonus would make one bad science themed vessel. If It was 10 weapons 10 auxiliary it would be different..but it isnt.
But let us consider the Valdore refit.
It looks like a Mogai with a more agressive, more armored profile.
So this ship would perfectly fit the aesthetics of a tactical heavy escort.
While the Dhelan does look more like a science vessel, with a more bulbous hull and less blade like wings.
Maybe there could be a Valdore refit with the new patrol escort layout, and the old Mogai refit with the less useful science one.
I mean the Hapax and the Haakona are the same ship with different layouts, could the same not be done for the Mogai please?
This way science captains would get their 4 weapon slot vesta, while tacticals would get their useful patrol escort.
Something along these lines:
Mogai Refit : 2 eng, 4 sci consoles, lt com scientist bridge slot, 10 weapon power, 10 aux power.
Valdore Refit : 4 eng, 2 science, lt com engineer slot, 15 weapon power (or 10 weapon 10 shields?) .
Now, why make the Valdore the Engineering-themed one?
Because it looks like it packs heavy armor sufficient enough to make it shrug off enough damage that would blow up a Deridex.
Maybe the Valdore refit could require you to have the Valdore ship unlocked in the C-store. I woul still buy it, I want nothing more in this expansion than a tatical captain with a viable end game Valdore!
Having both versions can only bring in more revenue, since I doubt its really a lot of coding to put in another fleet/refit ship that already has a model and everything.
Also, the new Deridex changes look awesome.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Actually its prolly more to the effect that he had a perfect cloak and they didnt, thus they couldnt fire under cloak. And to help the E they had to focus fire on the weapon fire origin, to do that they have to be out of cloak.
The Mogai aught to go back to what it was, originally, and leave the more tanky destroyer aspect to another ship. Or just give us a Fleet Valdore so we can just use the mogai skin on a diff ship layout and we could pick which we wanted to fly.
I personally want the original ship, but some people want the new one easiest solution for everyone is 2 Fleet ships. Its not hard to copy paste the info then edit the ship to a new set up rename it to a diff name and bam done we are all happy.
Actually its prolly more to the effect that he had a perfect cloak and they didnt, thus they couldnt fire under cloak. And to help the E they had to focus fire on the weapon fire origin, to do that they have to be out of cloak.
The Mogai aught to go back to what it was, originally, and leave the more tanky destroyer aspect to another ship. Or just give us a Fleet Valdore so we can just use the mogai skin on a diff ship layout and we could pick which we wanted to fly.
I personally want the original ship, but some people want the new one easiest solution for everyone is 2 Fleet ships. Its not hard to copy paste the info then edit the ship to a new set up rename it to a diff name and bam done we are all happy.
They already did with the Hapax/Haakona, so why not the Mogai?
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Giving up the Lt Uni for an En Uni to promote the Lt Tac to LCdr Tac...
Yes, so? There are lot's of great Tac abilities at Lt.Cmdr. first and foremost for me FaWIII. The universal will most likely to go Eng now and it was a bit more flexible before yes, but damage wise it's better this way. And a bit more damage was what we all wanted. Aux2Bat will be crammy with that setup, but that's fine with me honestly. If you use it you give up most survivability. So going Dragon instead is a compelling choice. In the old setup you basically had to go Aux2Bat to even get any damage at all out of the 2 tac stations. Now you have choices. Choices are good.
I don't know why people want the Mogai to revert to its old layout. Technically the T'Varo now allows for the Mogai's old hide&ambush tac/sci build. It even has now a LtC universal to field another highranking Sci-officer and also has 3 science consoles. Yes, it's one less science console than the old Mogai had, but it has an enhanced battlecloak. You can now use LtC sci abilities while cloaked!
By reverting the Mogai to its old layout you will just create a bad copy of the current T'Varo. Also we would loose the 5-tac console space chicken (Dhelan) if it would get its old layout back in the process.
Edit:
Even the D'Deridex is now going to get a LtC science slot. Together with the full science ships there are now a lot choices for science characters. Let the Mogai stay in its current tac/eng destroyer design, so we have at least one iconic ship of this kind.
Oh he does not ignore it. He is just playing the devil advocate. You know, the amount of BO seatings is pretty limited, so it's no wonder it's hard to create something unique, yet working and not OP.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
The Dhelan and Mogai issue is a lot trickier; some people seem to like the current setup, others would prefer to revert it. There are some compelling arguments for both sides. For the time being, I am keeping the BOFFs and consoles as-is
This may not be that important, but I guess it would be nice to know how EXACTLY Dhelan Retrofit and Mogai Retrofit consoles work and what are the set bonuses with the consoles of their lower tier equivalents. I'd imagine console ability is all part of a tactic for a particular ship, but as it is now most people don't have access to Refits and Retrofits on Tribble if they didn't buy the Legacy Pack. Depending on the console and console set usefulness it would be easier to say whether a ship shows more of a science or engi approach.
Giving up the Lt Uni for an En Uni to promote the Lt Tac to LCdr Tac...
I think the two seating arrangements, the former ambassador clone and this new one, are largely the same, with some potential advantages/disadvantages on either side of it. The more I think about it, I'm not really sure which would be "better". Personally, I would still prefer cutting loose a boff and going for:
TRIBBLE XXXX TRIBBLE XX
But that might just be too awesome. =/ but one can dream.
That, or make both ensign stations universal, that'd be pretty spiffy too, could at least throw both of those sci-ways since they have a nice selection of ensign powers if I don't want to use them tac.
Thank you. Looking forward to getting all the variants now once LoR goes live.
This may not be that important, but I guess it would be nice to know how EXACTLY Dhelan Retrofit and Mogai Retrofit consoles work and what are the set bonuses with the consoles of their lower tier equivalents. I'd imagine console ability is all part of a tactic for a particular ship, but as it is now most people don't have access to Refits and Retrofits on Tribble if they didn't buy the Legacy Pack. Depending on the console and console set usefulness it would be easier to say whether a ship shows more of a science or engi approach.
The Mogai Retrofit consoles gives all your weapons a 3% chance to Expose targets in space with shooting.
Now it is also a 3 minute clicky that shoots lightning. But if the target is exposed, the lightning shoots for more damage, and disables all engines in a straight line of the lightning bolt.
Its basically a 1 shot heavy damage that can get even heavier and disable stuff.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
My gut tells me they should give the the Mogai an escort boff set up. cmdr tac, ltcmdr tac, lt eng, lt sci, ens univ. That's what I want because the console set up and original Cmdr slot are tactical, so anything other than a tac cmdr and ltcmdr would gimp it's true purpose, Im fine with it's turn rate, but maybe it should have better shields than the ha'afeh (which ever the escort version is i forget the name).
Reserving this post for an in depth suggestion edit, gotta read up on everything first.
My gut tells me they should give the the Mogai an escort boff set up. cmdr tac, ltcmdr tac, lt eng, lt sci, ens univ. That's what I want because the console set up and original Cmdr slot are tactical, so anything other than a tac cmdr and ltcmdr would gimp it's true purpose, Im fine with it's turn rate, but maybe it should have better shields than the ha'afeh (which ever the escort version is i forget the name).
that escort section of the ha'apax basically covers that, and turns better
I will be going ahead and making the proposed changes to the D'deridex Retrofit and the Fleet D'deridex.
The Dhelan and Mogai issue is a lot trickier; some people seem to like the current setup, others would prefer to revert it. There are some compelling arguments for both sides. For the time being, I am keeping the BOFFs and consoles as-is.
As always, these changes are not final, and still subject to possible change.
We will continue to monitor the feedback here, and I'm looking forward to seeing a lot more comments once we unlock access to all of the higher level content and ships.
For the mogai,
would it be possible to have to both versions? say a mogai-e and a mogai-s, different ships?
Or
How about, a console layout of
3 eng
3 sci
3 tac
1 universal, can be either eng, sci or tac
that escort section of the ha'apax basically covers that, and turns better
Thats something I mentioned in the patch notes thread and was planning to add here, the haapax variants are superior to all the other ships. Mixed breeds just don't do anything as well as a pure bred boff set up. This could have been rectified by putting the canon ships up for mirror treatment instead of the haapax vessels, this would have fit in with Cryptics money making strategy, but for some reason they probably think it will do better when added later on. Actually, it makes perfect sense to me now, this way they can guarantee all the fans will buy all the c-store versions, and then move on to mirror ships when they trickle on out. It's making me depressed just by thinking about it.
The other thing they could do about this would be to give the haapax ships non standard boff set ups. I was originally ok with the Mogai boff slots before they were revealed, as I thought the boff slotting were meant to balance out a battle cloak. Now that I know that isn't the case I am upset beyond belief. I will try to be positive though, I like the new Mogai setup more than the old one because surviving in between cloaks will be more important to me than dropping an extra team heal or tractor beam. In addition, the Romulans are more science focused than the Klingons, but their ships were never displayed as scientifically exceptional. Their only science vessel ever shown was just a modified scout ship, and their dedicated science officer in the Voyager mini-wormhole episode did not seem to have very much self respect or confidence. Plus there are many fan theories about how the Mogai was meant to replace the D'derix, so it seems more cruiser like to me too.
Even though it should probably be more of a cruiser, I still want the ltcmdr tac boff slot because that will be the best way for the ship thrive and be useful, it's turn rate can be buffed, or be rendered a non hindrance while cloaked.
I will be going ahead and making the proposed changes to the D'deridex Retrofit and the Fleet D'deridex.
The Dhelan and Mogai issue is a lot trickier; some people seem to like the current setup, others would prefer to revert it. There are some compelling arguments for both sides. For the time being, I am keeping the BOFFs and consoles as-is.
As always, these changes are not final, and still subject to possible change.
We will continue to monitor the feedback here, and I'm looking forward to seeing a lot more comments once we unlock access to all of the higher level content and ships.
The Dehlan and Mogai issue is quite easy, just make both versions for each. I personally would prefer the sci heavier version of the Mogai others would prefer the eng heavy version, sure you can say i can use the Dhelan then, but i don`t like the look of the Dhelan.
Imo the Mogai looks way better then the Dehlan and i don`t want to fly a (in my opinion) ugly looking ship. At least not as T5 Ship.
So please just make both Variants.
Reynolds/Thokal
U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class/R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit TheWiseGuys
-We could swap the Mogai back to Tactical/Science and the Dhelan back to Tactical/Engineering. I can see that a lot of people preferred the old setup, but there seem to be some people who prefer the new version as well. The Mogai is the "heavier" ship and more comparable to a Destroyer in turn rate and hull, so Engineering seems to be a little more appropriate, but I can see the argument that the consoles for the Mogai have a more "Science" feel.
This could occur either by just swapping the current Dhelan Retrofit and Mogai Retrofit seating, or by giving the Dhelan Retrofit the current Mogai Retrofit seating and reverting the Mogai Retrofit back to its old seating.
I'd like to see more arguments for one side or another that involve more than personal preference.
.
These really are two different questions. The first is which one, between the Dehlan and MOgai, should be the Sci-heavy ship, and which one should be the Engi heavy. The second question is whether the Sci heavy ship should have the current setup (used by the Dehlan) or the old one (which the Mogai used to have). Let me answer the second one first.
Whatever else you do, do NOT revert to the old seating. Regardless of the which ship ends up being the sci-heavy one, the current seating is much better. Reasoning:With the old Mogai setup, the universal slot was a false choice. Given the rest of the slots, almost everyone, if not everyone, would be forced to seat an engineer in the slot. The current (Dehlan) seating allows for a lot more flexibility. One can seat another tactical, for a tact heavy setup, and make it work similar to the advanced escort. One could seat an engineer and attempt to do aux2bat build (interesting given the amount of sci powers, and their reliance on aux), or go with another sci for a very science-y feel. There's real choice with the current bridge setup, that wasn't present earlier.
That said, which one ends up being the sci-heavy and which one eng-heavy must come down to your own design goals regarding the ships. Most people here are going to defend one or the other mostly based on which seating they prefer, and which ship they find visually pleasing. The only advice I can give, without introducing my own prejudices, would be point you back to what these ships should be in relation to each other, in your own words. From Dev Blog #3 we have these descriptions of the ships. Now, granted, they refer to the original ships (and not the retrofit, or fleet retro per se), but it seems to me that this relationship between the ships should carry, at least grossly, into their updated forms.
The ship [Dehlan] is larger than the T'liss Light Warbird and much sturdier, as well as carrying a heavier payload of weapons.
.
How would "much sturdier" translate into game mechanics? Other than hull and shield strength, it seems to me to also denote heavier Engineer bias. As well:
The Mogai has an average turn rate and impulse speed, but carries more weapons than the Dhelan and has significantly increased hull strength.
.
Now, we know that this doesn't actually translate into more weapon slots in the t5 version. So what would more firepower actually mean? Perhaps an extra tactical console, and the ability to create mini-blackholes, or shutdown an opponents ships with a viral matrix?
It was already a tough ship before, as you could easily make it a shieldtanking monster which could also dish out heavy damage. However I think the Romulan faction has now enough ships with can/must field LtC Science BOff. The new layout brings a bit more variety into the Romulan ship roster.
I defently like the changes made to the Mogai, special since it make her a tougher ship.
Not sure if a eng heavy ship is tougher then a sci heavy, especially not if you need skills to clean dots, like you do in stfs. As far as i know there is no eng skill that can clean dots. And to rum EPtS a lt eng slot is enough.
Reynolds/Thokal
U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class/R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit TheWiseGuys
The new ships introduced after the wipe look interesting. Any chance of seeing a refit version of the new T5 separated Warbirds? The science version would be a nice ship with the LTC and ensign stations turned to universal.
What about a three pack with the refits, seeing that the three ships are closely related? And when are we going to get information about the effects of the separation console?
Ok, don't jump at me, but I do think that the T'Varo could see some further modifications. Sure, it was kind of OP before, but romulans NEED a heavy tac with 5 consoles and a decent boff layout, WITHOUT the enhanced battle cloak.
I'm thinking about something with the current T'Varo layout (but with one less boff power - the ens tac), previous tvaro consoles and the standard battle cloak.
As of now, the T'Varo has still a really good potential for PvP, but when you look at the Defiant and the Jem Bug, you find that it's sub-par. As a matter of fact, the Defiant is awesome in both PvE and PvP. The T'Varo is not. Again, maybe it's just me, but I think the rommies should get a 5-slot ship like the T'Varo was, but without the OPness of the EBC.
Ok, don't jump at me, but I do think that the T'Varo could see some further modifications. Sure, it was kind of OP before, but romulans NEED a heavy tac with 5 consoles and a decent boff layout, WITHOUT the enhanced battle cloak.
I'm thinking about something with the current T'Varo layout (but with one less boff power - the ens tac), previous tvaro consoles and the standard battle cloak.
As of now, the T'Varo has still a really good potential for PvP, but when you look at the Defiant and the Jem Bug, you find that it's sub-par. As a matter of fact, the Defiant is awesome in both PvE and PvP. The T'Varo is not. Again, maybe it's just me, but I think the rommies should get a 5-slot ship like the T'Varo was, but without the OPness of the EBC.
The Fleet Dhelan has 5 tac-consoles and is pretty much what you are demanding here.
Comments
That change to the D'deridex sounds pretty good actually. It reminds me a lot of the setup my Tactical Odyssey runs with as far as BOFFs and the consoles should work out alright. If you fly that with a Tactical Captain you should be able to get some notable punch out of it without completely sacrificing your tank.
The d'deridex changes will be awesome
Well if you do end up keeping the layouts as is please make the vet ship like the previous mogai. Because there is no reason to have two destroyer type ships with basically so similar console and boff layouts.. It would also feel cheap and pointless. If you decide to go around this route you will be abandoning the consistency of the vet destroyers
What would be truly awesome if you made a fleet valdor or something with the previous set up and fleet The refit Dhelan. Which had the other layout...
But honestly I still think they are too similar with there setups to fed ships, while some people might like that because its what they are use to aren't these ships suppose to give people new ship experiences? I mean you could argue battle cloak and singularity abilities make them different. But the basic game play of the ships is essentially the same, with a few more innate abilities.
I also believe romulans have always been more about tactical/science sure there engineering is first rate especially after tos. The cloak and dagger style best suits a science abilities especially the control and placate/confuse stuff.
The mogai's helping the enterprise were quickly taken out of the fight much faster then the enterprise. With this engineering set up though it could easily go on par defensively with a assault cruiser.. Though one could argue that he was hoping to disable the enterprise but I doubt it at that point he knew that the transfusion wouldn't help him he had already degraded to far.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTPdWYo9zhQ
If anyone wonders why the mogai didn't cloak it was likely because the scimitar could probably easily detect them, due to knowing the mogai exact cloaking capabilities, it would have been a waste of power.
This. The Mogai's 10 weapon power and 5 engine power bonus would make one bad science themed vessel. If It was 10 weapons 10 auxiliary it would be different..but it isnt.
But let us consider the Valdore refit.
It looks like a Mogai with a more agressive, more armored profile.
So this ship would perfectly fit the aesthetics of a tactical heavy escort.
While the Dhelan does look more like a science vessel, with a more bulbous hull and less blade like wings.
Maybe there could be a Valdore refit with the new patrol escort layout, and the old Mogai refit with the less useful science one.
I mean the Hapax and the Haakona are the same ship with different layouts, could the same not be done for the Mogai please?
This way science captains would get their 4 weapon slot vesta, while tacticals would get their useful patrol escort.
Something along these lines:
Mogai Refit : 2 eng, 4 sci consoles, lt com scientist bridge slot, 10 weapon power, 10 aux power.
Valdore Refit : 4 eng, 2 science, lt com engineer slot, 15 weapon power (or 10 weapon 10 shields?) .
Now, why make the Valdore the Engineering-themed one?
Because it looks like it packs heavy armor sufficient enough to make it shrug off enough damage that would blow up a Deridex.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-srrqqmOkWQM/UUvtt-jvnGI/AAAAAAAAPT8/ZiAeAydVO2c/s1600/Star+Trek+Online+Romulan+warbird+concept.jpg
Maybe the Valdore refit could require you to have the Valdore ship unlocked in the C-store. I woul still buy it, I want nothing more in this expansion than a tatical captain with a viable end game Valdore!
Having both versions can only bring in more revenue, since I doubt its really a lot of coding to put in another fleet/refit ship that already has a model and everything.
Also, the new Deridex changes look awesome.
The Mogai aught to go back to what it was, originally, and leave the more tanky destroyer aspect to another ship. Or just give us a Fleet Valdore so we can just use the mogai skin on a diff ship layout and we could pick which we wanted to fly.
I personally want the original ship, but some people want the new one easiest solution for everyone is 2 Fleet ships. Its not hard to copy paste the info then edit the ship to a new set up rename it to a diff name and bam done we are all happy.
They already did with the Hapax/Haakona, so why not the Mogai?
But if roms go live as they are now my rom toon will be nothing more then a Dil farmer for my KDF toon.
This alone if it went Live, would make me buy
X
X, X, X, X
X, X, X
X
We're all looking at the same BOFF layout, right?
Giving up the Lt Uni for an En Uni to promote the Lt Tac to LCdr Tac...
Yes, so? There are lot's of great Tac abilities at Lt.Cmdr. first and foremost for me FaWIII. The universal will most likely to go Eng now and it was a bit more flexible before yes, but damage wise it's better this way. And a bit more damage was what we all wanted. Aux2Bat will be crammy with that setup, but that's fine with me honestly. If you use it you give up most survivability. So going Dragon instead is a compelling choice. In the old setup you basically had to go Aux2Bat to even get any damage at all out of the 2 tac stations. Now you have choices. Choices are good.
By reverting the Mogai to its old layout you will just create a bad copy of the current T'Varo. Also we would loose the 5-tac console space chicken (Dhelan) if it would get its old layout back in the process.
Edit:
Even the D'Deridex is now going to get a LtC science slot. Together with the full science ships there are now a lot choices for science characters. Let the Mogai stay in its current tac/eng destroyer design, so we have at least one iconic ship of this kind.
The LCdr Tac gives you 16 choices at LCdr.
The Lt Uni gave you 42 choices at Lt.
Yes.../cough...choices are good.
edit...continued:
The LCdr Tac gives you 1 new ability choice at LCdr.
The Lt Uni gave you 20 new ability choices at Lt.
Yes.../cough...choices are good.
The old setup offered lot's of ****ty choices, basically Aux2Bat or GTFO.
This may not be that important, but I guess it would be nice to know how EXACTLY Dhelan Retrofit and Mogai Retrofit consoles work and what are the set bonuses with the consoles of their lower tier equivalents. I'd imagine console ability is all part of a tactic for a particular ship, but as it is now most people don't have access to Refits and Retrofits on Tribble if they didn't buy the Legacy Pack. Depending on the console and console set usefulness it would be easier to say whether a ship shows more of a science or engi approach.
I think the two seating arrangements, the former ambassador clone and this new one, are largely the same, with some potential advantages/disadvantages on either side of it. The more I think about it, I'm not really sure which would be "better". Personally, I would still prefer cutting loose a boff and going for:
TRIBBLE
XXXX
TRIBBLE
XX
But that might just be too awesome. =/ but one can dream.
That, or make both ensign stations universal, that'd be pretty spiffy too, could at least throw both of those sci-ways since they have a nice selection of ensign powers if I don't want to use them tac.
The Mogai Retrofit consoles gives all your weapons a 3% chance to Expose targets in space with shooting.
Now it is also a 3 minute clicky that shoots lightning. But if the target is exposed, the lightning shoots for more damage, and disables all engines in a straight line of the lightning bolt.
Its basically a 1 shot heavy damage that can get even heavier and disable stuff.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
that escort section of the ha'apax basically covers that, and turns better
For the mogai,
would it be possible to have to both versions? say a mogai-e and a mogai-s, different ships?
Or
How about, a console layout of
3 eng
3 sci
3 tac
1 universal, can be either eng, sci or tac
and make the ltcmd the universal
Thats something I mentioned in the patch notes thread and was planning to add here, the haapax variants are superior to all the other ships. Mixed breeds just don't do anything as well as a pure bred boff set up. This could have been rectified by putting the canon ships up for mirror treatment instead of the haapax vessels, this would have fit in with Cryptics money making strategy, but for some reason they probably think it will do better when added later on. Actually, it makes perfect sense to me now, this way they can guarantee all the fans will buy all the c-store versions, and then move on to mirror ships when they trickle on out. It's making me depressed just by thinking about it.
The other thing they could do about this would be to give the haapax ships non standard boff set ups. I was originally ok with the Mogai boff slots before they were revealed, as I thought the boff slotting were meant to balance out a battle cloak. Now that I know that isn't the case I am upset beyond belief. I will try to be positive though, I like the new Mogai setup more than the old one because surviving in between cloaks will be more important to me than dropping an extra team heal or tractor beam. In addition, the Romulans are more science focused than the Klingons, but their ships were never displayed as scientifically exceptional. Their only science vessel ever shown was just a modified scout ship, and their dedicated science officer in the Voyager mini-wormhole episode did not seem to have very much self respect or confidence. Plus there are many fan theories about how the Mogai was meant to replace the D'derix, so it seems more cruiser like to me too.
Even though it should probably be more of a cruiser, I still want the ltcmdr tac boff slot because that will be the best way for the ship thrive and be useful, it's turn rate can be buffed, or be rendered a non hindrance while cloaked.
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The Dehlan and Mogai issue is quite easy, just make both versions for each. I personally would prefer the sci heavier version of the Mogai others would prefer the eng heavy version, sure you can say i can use the Dhelan then, but i don`t like the look of the Dhelan.
Imo the Mogai looks way better then the Dehlan and i don`t want to fly a (in my opinion) ugly looking ship. At least not as T5 Ship.
So please just make both Variants.
U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class / R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer
U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit
TheWiseGuys
These really are two different questions. The first is which one, between the Dehlan and MOgai, should be the Sci-heavy ship, and which one should be the Engi heavy. The second question is whether the Sci heavy ship should have the current setup (used by the Dehlan) or the old one (which the Mogai used to have). Let me answer the second one first.
Whatever else you do, do NOT revert to the old seating. Regardless of the which ship ends up being the sci-heavy one, the current seating is much better. Reasoning: With the old Mogai setup, the universal slot was a false choice. Given the rest of the slots, almost everyone, if not everyone, would be forced to seat an engineer in the slot. The current (Dehlan) seating allows for a lot more flexibility. One can seat another tactical, for a tact heavy setup, and make it work similar to the advanced escort. One could seat an engineer and attempt to do aux2bat build (interesting given the amount of sci powers, and their reliance on aux), or go with another sci for a very science-y feel. There's real choice with the current bridge setup, that wasn't present earlier.
That said, which one ends up being the sci-heavy and which one eng-heavy must come down to your own design goals regarding the ships. Most people here are going to defend one or the other mostly based on which seating they prefer, and which ship they find visually pleasing. The only advice I can give, without introducing my own prejudices, would be point you back to what these ships should be in relation to each other, in your own words. From Dev Blog #3 we have these descriptions of the ships. Now, granted, they refer to the original ships (and not the retrofit, or fleet retro per se), but it seems to me that this relationship between the ships should carry, at least grossly, into their updated forms.
How would "much sturdier" translate into game mechanics? Other than hull and shield strength, it seems to me to also denote heavier Engineer bias. As well:
Now, we know that this doesn't actually translate into more weapon slots in the t5 version. So what would more firepower actually mean? Perhaps an extra tactical console, and the ability to create mini-blackholes, or shutdown an opponents ships with a viral matrix?
Not sure if a eng heavy ship is tougher then a sci heavy, especially not if you need skills to clean dots, like you do in stfs. As far as i know there is no eng skill that can clean dots. And to rum EPtS a lt eng slot is enough.
U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class / R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer
U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit
TheWiseGuys
The new ships introduced after the wipe look interesting. Any chance of seeing a refit version of the new T5 separated Warbirds? The science version would be a nice ship with the LTC and ensign stations turned to universal.
What about a three pack with the refits, seeing that the three ships are closely related? And when are we going to get information about the effects of the separation console?
I'm thinking about something with the current T'Varo layout (but with one less boff power - the ens tac), previous tvaro consoles and the standard battle cloak.
As of now, the T'Varo has still a really good potential for PvP, but when you look at the Defiant and the Jem Bug, you find that it's sub-par. As a matter of fact, the Defiant is awesome in both PvE and PvP. The T'Varo is not. Again, maybe it's just me, but I think the rommies should get a 5-slot ship like the T'Varo was, but without the OPness of the EBC.
The Fleet Dhelan has 5 tac-consoles and is pretty much what you are demanding here.