We've been monitoring the feedback closely, and I'd like to run two specific changes behind the people here.
-We could swap the Mogai back to Tactical/Science and the Dhelan back to Tactical/Engineering. I can see that a lot of people preferred the old setup, but there seem to be some people who prefer the new version as well. The Mogai is the "heavier" ship and more comparable to a Destroyer in turn rate and hull, so Engineering seems to be a little more appropriate, but I can see the argument that the consoles for the Mogai have a more "Science" feel.
This could occur either by just swapping the current Dhelan Retrofit and Mogai Retrofit seating, or by giving the Dhelan Retrofit the current Mogai Retrofit seating and reverting the Mogai Retrofit back to its old seating.
I'd like to see more arguments for one side or another that involve more than personal preference.
-I am considering changing the D'deridex Retrofit to the following:
Ensign Tac, Lt. Com Tac, Commander Eng, Lt. Com Sci, En Universal
Consoles would most likely be adjusted as well if this change was made, probably to 3-3-3 on the Retrofit and 3-4-3 (4 Eng) on the Fleet version.
As always, these are just possible changes - nothing is set in stone.
1) That D'deridex looks fun, a very interesting BOff seating to play with.
2) The Dhelan should be the tac/eng ship and the Mogai the tac/sci. Looking the ships themselves, the Dhelan is compact and sturdy looking, it just screams tough and easy to repair. The Mogai on the other hand, is large and somewhat fragile looking, it looks as if it being high tech is more important that durability.
I will admit, though, that I do have a bias towards the Mogai being the tac/sci because I play sciscorts and love the Mogai's looks.
Uhm ... Cryptic. I hate to point out the obvious. Please tell me that there will be Commander Science abilities at launch?
there are new science ships added that have commander science boffs. they're not listed because they are new ships. Think someone posted their stats in here somewhere.
We've been monitoring the feedback closely, and I'd like to run two specific changes behind the people here.
-We could swap the Mogai back to Tactical/Science and the Dhelan back to Tactical/Engineering. I can see that a lot of people preferred the old setup, but there seem to be some people who prefer the new version as well. The Mogai is the "heavier" ship and more comparable to a Destroyer in turn rate and hull, so Engineering seems to be a little more appropriate, but I can see the argument that the consoles for the Mogai have a more "Science" feel.
This could occur either by just swapping the current Dhelan Retrofit and Mogai Retrofit seating, or by giving the Dhelan Retrofit the current Mogai Retrofit seating and reverting the Mogai Retrofit back to its old seating.
I'd like to see more arguments for one side or another that involve more than personal preference.
-I am considering changing the D'deridex Retrofit to the following:
Ensign Tac, Lt. Com Tac, Commander Eng, Lt. Com Sci, En Universal
Consoles would most likely be adjusted as well if this change was made, probably to 3-3-3 on the Retrofit and 3-4-3 (4 Eng) on the Fleet version.
As always, these are just possible changes - nothing is set in stone.
The main problem with the new Mogai layout is it is almost the same thing as the chimera if you took away the battle cloak and singularity, and gave it universal lt commander.
The previous setup gave it a interesting set up for a sci based assassin ship. That attacks and uses
science powers to off set its low hull resistance. http://sto.gamepedia.com/Fleet_Advanced_Escort
Dhelan similarly current set up is too close to advanced escorts. The previous set up with lt cmdr engi, while i would suggest a different console set up then before previous incarnation. with a 5tact 3engi 2sci setup or a 4tact 4engi 2 sci
I think it would it be interesting for a tough as nails and mean honey badger or mongoose escort, that just pops in and out out holes only to come back for more.
I think the D'deridex could use a interesting setup like that tough but gives a high science and high tactical options, that would make up somewhat for its slow turn rate but still trying to be a battle cruiser.
I'm pretty fine with the proposed changes though it's missing the one I was actually very keen on: the Ensign Tactical station for both the T'varo and the Dhelan.
Well, especially the T'varo. I really want to see a change going to that ensign station going science.
In the event that you go and select a science Boff for the universal station, you'd get LtC Science, Lt Science and Ens Science... which works out pretty well. If you get an Engineer Boff on the universal station, you get a fairly decent LtC and Lt Engineering lineup, while still retaining a fair Lt Sci and Ens Sci.
More importantly, if you use the LtC universal and switch it over to Tactical, you end up with a Cmd Tac and a LtC tac, one Lt Eng, a Lt Sci and Ens Sci. This, to me, would be ideal as it covers two goals: maintaining good science presence on the warbird, and avoiding an oversaturation of tactical ensign stations on the T'varo.
I hate having three tactical ensign powers. I find it largely wasteful and it's one of the reasons I don't stick with the Defiant and Armitage escorts. Getting a Lt Sci and Ens Sci by default would also be convenient to pack powers I usually prefer carrying around in Queued content like Polarize Hull, Hazard Emitters and Transfer Shield Strength/Science Team. Considering the enhanced battle cloak, the T'varo just seem like the ideal ship to retain that baseline.
So, for the above reasons, could you please consider turning the Ensign Tactical station on the T'varo and Dhelan into science ones? Please?
-I am considering changing the D'deridex Retrofit to the following:
Ensign Tac, Lt. Com Tac, Commander Eng, Lt. Com Sci, En Universal
Consoles would most likely be adjusted as well if this change was made, probably to 3-3-3 on the Retrofit and 3-4-3 (4 Eng) on the Fleet version.
As always, these are just possible changes - nothing is set in stone.
Yes please! The D'deridex is the most iconic Romulan ship, and this layout would allow it to be used for a variety of roles by a variety of players. The BOff layout would also make it really different from most ships on the market. Would give me a better incentive to roll a Romulan in the first place, honestly.
We've been monitoring the feedback closely, and I'd like to run two specific changes behind the people here.
-We could swap the Mogai back to Tactical/Science and the Dhelan back to Tactical/Engineering. I can see that a lot of people preferred the old setup, but there seem to be some people who prefer the new version as well. The Mogai is the "heavier" ship and more comparable to a Destroyer in turn rate and hull, so Engineering seems to be a little more appropriate, but I can see the argument that the consoles for the Mogai have a more "Science" feel.
This could occur either by just swapping the current Dhelan Retrofit and Mogai Retrofit seating, or by giving the Dhelan Retrofit the current Mogai Retrofit seating and reverting the Mogai Retrofit back to its old seating.
I'd like to see more arguments for one side or another that involve more than personal preference.
-I am considering changing the D'deridex Retrofit to the following:
Ensign Tac, Lt. Com Tac, Commander Eng, Lt. Com Sci, En Universal
Consoles would most likely be adjusted as well if this change was made, probably to 3-3-3 on the Retrofit and 3-4-3 (4 Eng) on the Fleet version.
As always, these are just possible changes - nothing is set in stone.
Maybe in terms of boff set ups. fleet level ships should have more universal slots options anyway
We've been monitoring the feedback closely, and I'd like to run two specific changes behind the people here.
-We could swap the Mogai back to Tactical/Science and the Dhelan back to Tactical/Engineering. I can see that a lot of people preferred the old setup, but there seem to be some people who prefer the new version as well. The Mogai is the "heavier" ship and more comparable to a Destroyer in turn rate and hull, so Engineering seems to be a little more appropriate, but I can see the argument that the consoles for the Mogai have a more "Science" feel.
This could occur either by just swapping the current Dhelan Retrofit and Mogai Retrofit seating, or by giving the Dhelan Retrofit the current Mogai Retrofit seating and reverting the Mogai Retrofit back to its old seating.
I'd like to see more arguments for one side or another that involve more than personal preference.
to me, engineering has more largeness then sci. sci more commonly comes from smaller, less powerful ships and is a factor that makes them competitive with the larger ships. though the old mogai was nice, i think it having an eng slant makes more sense, and the smaller Dhelan having more sci. plus, like the MVAM, a sci heavy escort having 5 tac consoles is now sorta a tradition. forgetting what they used to have, i LOVE the station setup on both of those ships as they stand. the change to the t'varo was appropriate too, it was simply too good, not as bop like.
before i think a lot of people might have skipped the Dhelan, in favor of ether the mogai or t'varo. not any more, this will cause more people to buy the legacy pack, because its yet another ship they are going to want to use.
-I am considering changing the D'deridex Retrofit to the following:
Ensign Tac, Lt. Com Tac, Commander Eng, Lt. Com Sci, En Universal
Consoles would most likely be adjusted as well if this change was made, probably to 3-3-3 on the Retrofit and 3-4-3 (4 Eng) on the Fleet version.
As always, these are just possible changes - nothing is set in stone.
hmm. i... hmm. dont get me wrong, with that turn rate, i would think it deserves a second LTC. i'd really like it to have a COM eng and a LT eng though, with both a LTC tac and LTC sci, no universals, and not 2 ensigns.
or, consider this.
i couldn't help but notice that the 2 parts of the separated ha'apax have ether a 10 or 16 turn rate. that top section, by itself, is still larger then the d'deridex. here's some size compare pics pre wipe
that central section being this big solid cylinder gives that ship an enormous volume, that by itself would exceed the volume of the d'deridex. i understand automatically giving a sci ship better turn, but in this case, this sci ship is the largest ship available to the romulans, aside from the combined ha'apax. i simply cant ignore how much more poorly the d'deridex turns then something still larger then it. compared to that top sci ship section, the d'deridex should have a turn rate at least close to that, like about 9?
i'd give up a second LTC station for more turn rate. i want that more then i want a station setup change, that would do it more good.
the perfect d'deridex in my opinion is this
COM eng LTC tac LT eng LT sci
ENS sci
with 4/2/3 and for fleet 4/3/3 console setups
with 9 turn. take hull from it too even, the ship proved to be sorta fragile as a ship of the line, not a tank. its supposed to be a decloaking alpha striker, not an attrition fighter. theres also no canon evidence of it being an especially great or poor turner. ive gone back and looked at every scene with one i could find.
a d'deridex's main single cannon, which should be the DHC hardpoints on top of each other on top of the deflector, is credited with removing 10% of a galaxy classes shields per shot in tin man, and in the DS9 episode visionary, were emissions from its singularity core caused o'brian to jump ahead in time, a d'deridex single handedly destroyed DS9, and then the worm hole in a decloak alpha. it should be the most dangerous cruiser in the game really. but my above stats fit it well enough for its in game use.
make this change to the d'deridex, leave the rest of the changes as is, and i'll buy a legacy pack
I would love to see that layout on the D'Deridex. Put it in and it should be a fine ship. As for the Mogai Its really fine the way it is if you want more sci on the ship as it is now then people can use the Uni for Sci if players want a different layout they can use the uni for something else. The Mogai as it is now is very flixible and much like a destroyer and I like it. I wasnt sure about the previous version of it.
The way the Mogai is now makes me want it as my endgame ship were before I was trying to decide between the Mogai and the Haakona.
So in then end put in your changes to the D'Deridex and let the Mogai be as it is. But we do need some more sci ships to satisfy the Sci captains. Might want to get some other Rom ships in when we can. The addition of the Guardian was a good move but I think they might be looking for a bit more maneuverability. Then again as the poster above me mentioned the Guardian is still quite big.
heres some additional thoughts for some minor tweaks. the advanced hap'apax is 1 universal ENS away from having the bortas/odyssey station setup. that being the case...
1. it would be silly to launch it with that station setup if you guys wanted to do a romulan flag ship later
2. it would be silly to make yet ANOTHER ship as large or larger then the d'deridex and ha'apax, and claim that its the flagship. the last thing anyone will want is another cruisers larger and slower then those.
a smaller cruiser, like a d'deridex with just the top wing and no bottom wing, being a smaller cruiser people, including me, would proboly like. something like that could have the ambassador station setup. so go the extra half step with the ha'apax, make that c store advanced and fleet ha'apax have a universal ENS, not a tac ENS. it makes it real hard to justify using the LTC for tac with that ENS tac built in there.
someone mentiened earlier, about the rom vet ship being to close to the mogai. vet ships come with a COM tac LTC uni TL eng LT sci ENS uni
and come with a 14 turn. but, the mogai is not that close to its setup, its still different enough with COM tac LTC eng LT tac LT uni ENS sci
they are different, and the vet ship is slightly more premium with more universal, but the mogai can have a bit more tac, and still just have a different setup. it can even have 3 sci station powers like it used too. it looks like the mogai was setup with the future vet ship in mind
-I am considering changing the D'deridex Retrofit to the following:
Ensign Tac, Lt. Com Tac, Commander Eng, Lt. Com Sci, En Universal
Consoles would most likely be adjusted as well if this change was made, probably to 3-3-3 on the Retrofit and 3-4-3 (4 Eng) on the Fleet version.
Oh, now that I do like. Although I'm not upset with the Support Cruiser layout it has now.
The D'deridex mixes cruiser weapons with carrier turn. Two Lieutenant Commander slots are one of the signature "carrier" perks in my mind. This would make a fantastically versatile ship out of a ship that is canonically the backbone of the Romulan fleet.
Now I presume the improvements to the D'Deridex will be mirrored in some form by improvements to the Galaxy variants?
Secondly, I'm in favor of swapping the Mogai and Dhelen seating. I always loved the idea of a slightly less flexible, slightly more maneuverable warship that filled the gap between smaller gunship and heavier cruiser.
With the exception of the breen-mobile there are no T5 "light cruiser" type ships. And frankly given the lore behind the Dhelan class (that it was an older prototype that the Republic got ahold of and redesigned for the 25th century), wouldn't it make more sense to have a smaller ship that could be more easily constructed, yet has the capacity to step into the role that other factions' heavier vessels would fill?
I think the main pro-sci mogai is, that another patrol escort clone is somewhat boring. Players that are in the game for a while wan't to explore more options instead creating a clone in another skin.
Oh and yes, fix maaaa Galaxy! :P Compared to the proposed D'Deridex layout (nice btw) it looks like ...well...meh ?
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Personally, I have no preference towards the Mogai. I kind of liked the idea of having a tactical ship that could throw around some exotic damage, but the ship does have the basic stats that I would normally associate with a destroyer. However, on the D'Deridex, PLEASE put in those changes you brought it. It'd make the ship a lot more appealing, and would end satiate the angry D'Deridex fans.
...I am considering changing the D'deridex Retrofit to the following:
Ensign Tac, Lt. Com Tac, Commander Eng, Lt. Com Sci, En Universal
Consoles would most likely be adjusted as well if this change was made, probably to 3-3-3 on the Retrofit and 3-4-3 (4 Eng) on the Fleet version...
Archoncryptic, I have been looking forward to flying a D'deridex since the idea of a Romulan Faction was first talked about years ago. Recently, when I saw the failboat (that we learned were just temp stats), I was very disappointed. It did not look fun to fly.
The projection you have above looks perfect. The ship would have a strong Eng backbone of a cruiser (Eng Cmd), which would be needed given its poor turn rate. Yet, the ability to strike out equally Tactically or through Science (Lt. Com of each) would be fun. The En slots listed (Tac/Uni) allow for additional support/versatility.
I love the fact that this ship can "do anything" - It would have access to any power (not always at 3rd Rank, obviously), and putting 3-All in consoles lends weight to the balance. I could see this ship being enjoyable for any Captain class.
I don't care where the 10th Fleet Console lands, as we all typically use at least 1x Universal Console that we can put anywhere anyway. And realistically, the ship shouldn't be too heavy in either Sci or Tac, so a 4th Eng (which could be used for armor, too), again is lovely.
To me the D'deridex is the penultimate Romulan ship, I really can't wait to get "behind the wheel" on this beauty. PLEASE do go ahead with the changes you posted.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
We've been monitoring the feedback closely, and I'd like to run two specific changes behind the people here.
Thanks very much for posting here and for decreasing the T'Varo's hull and tac console slots. It's now a bit more balanced, although still very strong.
-We could swap the Mogai back to Tactical/Science and the Dhelan back to Tactical/Engineering. I can see that a lot of people preferred the old setup, but there seem to be some people who prefer the new version as well. The Mogai is the "heavier" ship and more comparable to a Destroyer in turn rate and hull, so Engineering seems to be a little more appropriate, but I can see the argument that the consoles for the Mogai have a more "Science" feel.
This could occur either by just swapping the current Dhelan Retrofit and Mogai Retrofit seating, or by giving the Dhelan Retrofit the current Mogai Retrofit seating and reverting the Mogai Retrofit back to its old seating.
I'd like to see more arguments for one side or another that involve more than personal preference.
While I was very unhappy you took away the sci slots (4 on the fleet one) from the Mogai, there aren't very potent arguments against it. One could say that the Mogai looks more fragile and 'advaced' than the sturdier looking Dhelan, but that's about it.
I think both are now very nice ships (very strong actually, poor FEDs and KDFs) that offer interesting possibilities with their Boff seating. So, just leave them as they are now.
-I am considering changing the D'deridex Retrofit to the following:
Ensign Tac, Lt. Com Tac, Commander Eng, Lt. Com Sci, En Universal
Consoles would most likely be adjusted as well if this change was made, probably to 3-3-3 on the Retrofit and 3-4-3 (4 Eng) on the Fleet version.
As always, these are just possible changes - nothing is set in stone.
That'd be very nice, and given the turn rate, I don't think anyone could call it OP.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Well I'd also like to note that it has been stated that Romulans will be getting vet ship sometime after launch if the mogai is so similar to the vet ship it would be a let down .
That's if they keep to the current vet ship all being destroyers.
Plus there are no really good science skills for an escort/destroyer to use beyond Hazard Emitters and Transfer Shield Strength. Polarize Hull is a possible third. None of these require anything more than an ensign slot. The Lt. Commander position is, quite simply, unnecessary.
Have you completely forgotten about gravity well and TBR? These are absolutely VITAL for no-win-scenario and as it currently stands there are no real appetising ships for running it.
The Mogai looked superb with its Lt.Com and was going to be my de-facto NWS ship, now it's out and there's no real replacement I'll have to stick to running it on my fed
Now I presume the improvements to the D'Deridex will be mirrored in some form by improvements to the Galaxy variants?
I don't think the two situations are related at all. The D'Deridex is still in the testing stage. The Galaxy has been live for years.
The real issue with the Galaxy, and actually the primary reason why I'm not interested in the new Mogai, is engineering BOFF powers.
If they weren't all linked at low rank BOFFs through an annoying morass of shared cooldowns, and if there were some that were more flexible and more variable, the Galaxy's BOFF seating wouldn't be nearly as big an issue. And I'd be more interested in the Mogai as seen currently.
Since Engineering BOFF powers are as lackluster as they are and handcuffed by shared cooldowns, it's just a boring mess worth skipping.
I don't think the two situations are related at all. The D'Deridex is still in the testing stage. The Galaxy has been live for years.
Considering one of the primary arguments given by Archon for keeping certain parts of the D'Deridex as they are was that it needs to closely mirror the Galaxy, it's quite pertinent. If it's okay to make the two radically different in one respect, it doesn't make much sense to argue concurrently that the ships need to be nearly identical does it?
Well I'd also like to note that it has been stated that Romulans will be getting vet ship sometime after launch if the mogai is so similar to the vet ship it would be a let down .
That's if they keep to the current vet ship all being destroyers.
this is a good point. Were getting a vet ship, and it's very likely that were going to get other ships down the line.
Honestly, as i said before, at this point, i'd be good either way. Part of me would have the mogai and dehlan switched but at the time time if it's kept the same, i've come to terms with it and i'll enjoy it and make do.
Already got great boff setups for all 3, the t'varo, dehlan and mogai.
I will say though that we really do need a 4 tac 4 sci 2 eng escort/destroyer type ship somewhere.
We've been monitoring the feedback closely, and I'd like to run two specific changes behind the people here.
-We could swap the Mogai back to Tactical/Science and the Dhelan back to Tactical/Engineering. I can see that a lot of people preferred the old setup, but there seem to be some people who prefer the new version as well. The Mogai is the "heavier" ship and more comparable to a Destroyer in turn rate and hull, so Engineering seems to be a little more appropriate, but I can see the argument that the consoles for the Mogai have a more "Science" feel.
This could occur either by just swapping the current Dhelan Retrofit and Mogai Retrofit seating, or by giving the Dhelan Retrofit the current Mogai Retrofit seating and reverting the Mogai Retrofit back to its old seating.
I'd like to see more arguments for one side or another that involve more than personal preference.
-I am considering changing the D'deridex Retrofit to the following:
Ensign Tac, Lt. Com Tac, Commander Eng, Lt. Com Sci, En Universal
Consoles would most likely be adjusted as well if this change was made, probably to 3-3-3 on the Retrofit and 3-4-3 (4 Eng) on the Fleet version.
As always, these are just possible changes - nothing is set in stone.
Please change the D'deridex retrofit to the set up you mention.
The Mogai is the "heavier" ship and more comparable to a Destroyer in turn rate and hull, so Engineering seems to be a little more appropriate, but I can see the argument that the consoles for the Mogai have a more "Science" feel.
Why is engineering appropriate for a destroyer? That's a question I'd like to see answered because it gets into a kind of larger discussion. Cruisers have an engineering slant. But Destroyers aren't exactly a defined class. They're very nebulous. The game didn't launch with them. And the few that there are are kind of misfits in the game. So how was it arrived at the decision that Destroyers need an engineering slant to them?
Considering one of the primary arguments given by Archon for keeping certain parts of the D'Deridex as they are was that it needs to closely mirror the Galaxy, it's quite pertinent.
Again, I think you're stretching it. The Galaxy has been live for years. These Romulan ships are all in the very nebulous testing stage and very subject to change. That's pretty important. The Galaxy has been the Galaxy for quite some time.
this is a good point. Were getting a vet ship, and it's very likely that were going to get other ships down the line.
Honestly, as i said before, at this point, i'd be good either way. Part of me would have the mogai and dehlan switched but at the time time if it's kept the same, i've come to terms with it and i'll enjoy it and make do.
Already got great boff setups for all 3, the t'varo, dehlan and mogai.
I will say though that we really do need a 4 tac 4 sci 2 eng escort/destroyer type ship somewhere.
the closest thing is the lobi ship temporal destroyer...
Again, I think you're stretching it. The Galaxy has been live for years. These Romulan ships are all in the very nebulous testing stage and very subject to change. That's pretty important. The Galaxy has been the Galaxy for quite some time.
How long something has been broken or subpar is irrelevant to the fact that it's broken or subpar. Are you seriously going to tell me that getting decloaked at every interaction should stay ingame because it's been ingame for years?
If a heavy cruiser, especially one with additional gimmicks, isn't okay with the Galaxy's layout, how the hell is the Galaxy (without said gimmicks) ok with it's own layout?
Does. Not. Compute.
Bottom line: Either the setup is ok, or it isn't. It doesn't get to be ok for one thing, but not ok for something else, especially given how equivalent said things are supposed to be.
Comments
1) That D'deridex looks fun, a very interesting BOff seating to play with.
2) The Dhelan should be the tac/eng ship and the Mogai the tac/sci. Looking the ships themselves, the Dhelan is compact and sturdy looking, it just screams tough and easy to repair. The Mogai on the other hand, is large and somewhat fragile looking, it looks as if it being high tech is more important that durability.
I will admit, though, that I do have a bias towards the Mogai being the tac/sci because I play sciscorts and love the Mogai's looks.
Now: 1 Lt Tactical, 1 Ens Engineering, 1 Cmdr Engineering, 1 Lt Science, 1 Lt Universal
Ha'apax
Now: 1 Ens Tactical, 1 Lt Tactical, 1 Cmdr Engineering, 1 LtCmdr Engineering, 1 Lt Science
Haakona
Now: 1 Lt Tactical, 1 Ens Tactical, 1 Cmdr Engineering, 1 Lt Science, 1 LtCmdr Universal
T'Varo Retrofit
Now: 1 Cmdr Tactical, 1 Ens Tactical, 1 Lt Engineering, 1 Lt Science, 1 LtCmdr Universal
Dehlan Retrofit
Now: 1 Cmdr Tactical, 1 Ens Tactical, 1 Lt Engineering, 1 LtCmdr Science, 1 Lt Universal
Mogai Retrofit
Now: 1 Cmdr Tactical, 1 Lt Tactical, 1 LtCmdr Engineering, 1 Ens Science, 1 Lt Universal
Fleet T'Varo
Now: 1 Cmdr Tactical, 1 Ens Tactical, 1 Lt Engineering, 1 Lt Science, 1 LtCmdr Universal
Fleet Dehlan
Now: 1 Cmdr Tactical, 1 Ens Tactical, 1 Lt Engineering, 1 LtCmdr Science, 1 Lt Universal
Fleet Mogai
Now: 1 Cmdr Tactical, 1 Lt Tactical, 1 LtCmdr Engineering, 1 Ens Science, 1 Lt Universal
Fleet Ha'apax
Now: 1 Ens Tactical, 1 Lt Tactical, 1 Cmdr Engineering, 1 Lt Science, 1 LtCmdr Universal
Uhm ... Cryptic. I hate to point out the obvious. Please tell me that there will be Commander Science abilities at launch?
That's quite a significant number of important skills.
there are new science ships added that have commander science boffs. they're not listed because they are new ships. Think someone posted their stats in here somewhere.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Chimera_Heavy_Destroyer
The main problem with the new Mogai layout is it is almost the same thing as the chimera if you took away the battle cloak and singularity, and gave it universal lt commander.
The previous setup gave it a interesting set up for a sci based assassin ship. That attacks and uses
science powers to off set its low hull resistance.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Fleet_Advanced_Escort
Dhelan similarly current set up is too close to advanced escorts. The previous set up with lt cmdr engi, while i would suggest a different console set up then before previous incarnation. with a 5tact 3engi 2sci setup or a 4tact 4engi 2 sci
I think it would it be interesting for a tough as nails and mean honey badger or mongoose escort, that just pops in and out out holes only to come back for more.
I think the D'deridex could use a interesting setup like that tough but gives a high science and high tactical options, that would make up somewhat for its slow turn rate but still trying to be a battle cruiser.
Well, especially the T'varo. I really want to see a change going to that ensign station going science.
In the event that you go and select a science Boff for the universal station, you'd get LtC Science, Lt Science and Ens Science... which works out pretty well. If you get an Engineer Boff on the universal station, you get a fairly decent LtC and Lt Engineering lineup, while still retaining a fair Lt Sci and Ens Sci.
More importantly, if you use the LtC universal and switch it over to Tactical, you end up with a Cmd Tac and a LtC tac, one Lt Eng, a Lt Sci and Ens Sci. This, to me, would be ideal as it covers two goals: maintaining good science presence on the warbird, and avoiding an oversaturation of tactical ensign stations on the T'varo.
I hate having three tactical ensign powers. I find it largely wasteful and it's one of the reasons I don't stick with the Defiant and Armitage escorts. Getting a Lt Sci and Ens Sci by default would also be convenient to pack powers I usually prefer carrying around in Queued content like Polarize Hull, Hazard Emitters and Transfer Shield Strength/Science Team. Considering the enhanced battle cloak, the T'varo just seem like the ideal ship to retain that baseline.
So, for the above reasons, could you please consider turning the Ensign Tactical station on the T'varo and Dhelan into science ones? Please?
Yes please! The D'deridex is the most iconic Romulan ship, and this layout would allow it to be used for a variety of roles by a variety of players. The BOff layout would also make it really different from most ships on the market. Would give me a better incentive to roll a Romulan in the first place, honestly.
Maybe in terms of boff set ups. fleet level ships should have more universal slots options anyway
to me, engineering has more largeness then sci. sci more commonly comes from smaller, less powerful ships and is a factor that makes them competitive with the larger ships. though the old mogai was nice, i think it having an eng slant makes more sense, and the smaller Dhelan having more sci. plus, like the MVAM, a sci heavy escort having 5 tac consoles is now sorta a tradition. forgetting what they used to have, i LOVE the station setup on both of those ships as they stand. the change to the t'varo was appropriate too, it was simply too good, not as bop like.
before i think a lot of people might have skipped the Dhelan, in favor of ether the mogai or t'varo. not any more, this will cause more people to buy the legacy pack, because its yet another ship they are going to want to use.
hmm. i... hmm. dont get me wrong, with that turn rate, i would think it deserves a second LTC. i'd really like it to have a COM eng and a LT eng though, with both a LTC tac and LTC sci, no universals, and not 2 ensigns.
or, consider this.
i couldn't help but notice that the 2 parts of the separated ha'apax have ether a 10 or 16 turn rate. that top section, by itself, is still larger then the d'deridex. here's some size compare pics pre wipe
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578988199813818311/D16B42EDC523FE2E95EED7313CD24941072DE7A7/
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578988199813814884/EE0A8193AE6CECD6DB39CF0573BF746506393A33/
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578988199813813404/FF58F37D158C7811D7A2E2F6F03859A553496C68/
somehow, another ship dwarfs the d'deridex.
that central section being this big solid cylinder gives that ship an enormous volume, that by itself would exceed the volume of the d'deridex. i understand automatically giving a sci ship better turn, but in this case, this sci ship is the largest ship available to the romulans, aside from the combined ha'apax. i simply cant ignore how much more poorly the d'deridex turns then something still larger then it. compared to that top sci ship section, the d'deridex should have a turn rate at least close to that, like about 9?
i'd give up a second LTC station for more turn rate. i want that more then i want a station setup change, that would do it more good.
the perfect d'deridex in my opinion is this
COM eng
LTC tac
LT eng
LT sci
ENS sci
with 4/2/3 and for fleet 4/3/3 console setups
with 9 turn. take hull from it too even, the ship proved to be sorta fragile as a ship of the line, not a tank. its supposed to be a decloaking alpha striker, not an attrition fighter. theres also no canon evidence of it being an especially great or poor turner. ive gone back and looked at every scene with one i could find.
a d'deridex's main single cannon, which should be the DHC hardpoints on top of each other on top of the deflector, is credited with removing 10% of a galaxy classes shields per shot in tin man, and in the DS9 episode visionary, were emissions from its singularity core caused o'brian to jump ahead in time, a d'deridex single handedly destroyed DS9, and then the worm hole in a decloak alpha. it should be the most dangerous cruiser in the game really. but my above stats fit it well enough for its in game use.
make this change to the d'deridex, leave the rest of the changes as is, and i'll buy a legacy pack
The way the Mogai is now makes me want it as my endgame ship were before I was trying to decide between the Mogai and the Haakona.
So in then end put in your changes to the D'Deridex and let the Mogai be as it is. But we do need some more sci ships to satisfy the Sci captains. Might want to get some other Rom ships in when we can. The addition of the Guardian was a good move but I think they might be looking for a bit more maneuverability. Then again as the poster above me mentioned the Guardian is still quite big.
1. it would be silly to launch it with that station setup if you guys wanted to do a romulan flag ship later
2. it would be silly to make yet ANOTHER ship as large or larger then the d'deridex and ha'apax, and claim that its the flagship. the last thing anyone will want is another cruisers larger and slower then those.
a smaller cruiser, like a d'deridex with just the top wing and no bottom wing, being a smaller cruiser people, including me, would proboly like. something like that could have the ambassador station setup. so go the extra half step with the ha'apax, make that c store advanced and fleet ha'apax have a universal ENS, not a tac ENS. it makes it real hard to justify using the LTC for tac with that ENS tac built in there.
someone mentiened earlier, about the rom vet ship being to close to the mogai. vet ships come with a
COM tac
LTC uni
TL eng
LT sci
ENS uni
and come with a 14 turn. but, the mogai is not that close to its setup, its still different enough with
COM tac
LTC eng
LT tac
LT uni
ENS sci
they are different, and the vet ship is slightly more premium with more universal, but the mogai can have a bit more tac, and still just have a different setup. it can even have 3 sci station powers like it used too. it looks like the mogai was setup with the future vet ship in mind
Oh, now that I do like. Although I'm not upset with the Support Cruiser layout it has now.
The D'deridex mixes cruiser weapons with carrier turn. Two Lieutenant Commander slots are one of the signature "carrier" perks in my mind. This would make a fantastically versatile ship out of a ship that is canonically the backbone of the Romulan fleet.
Secondly, I'm in favor of swapping the Mogai and Dhelen seating. I always loved the idea of a slightly less flexible, slightly more maneuverable warship that filled the gap between smaller gunship and heavier cruiser.
With the exception of the breen-mobile there are no T5 "light cruiser" type ships. And frankly given the lore behind the Dhelan class (that it was an older prototype that the Republic got ahold of and redesigned for the 25th century), wouldn't it make more sense to have a smaller ship that could be more easily constructed, yet has the capacity to step into the role that other factions' heavier vessels would fill?
I would hope so it is a little depressing to see such a wonderful change to the D'Deridex boff seating while the Galaxy is left to languish.
Oh and yes, fix maaaa Galaxy! :P Compared to the proposed D'Deridex layout (nice btw) it looks like ...well...meh ?
The projection you have above looks perfect. The ship would have a strong Eng backbone of a cruiser (Eng Cmd), which would be needed given its poor turn rate. Yet, the ability to strike out equally Tactically or through Science (Lt. Com of each) would be fun. The En slots listed (Tac/Uni) allow for additional support/versatility.
I love the fact that this ship can "do anything" - It would have access to any power (not always at 3rd Rank, obviously), and putting 3-All in consoles lends weight to the balance. I could see this ship being enjoyable for any Captain class.
I don't care where the 10th Fleet Console lands, as we all typically use at least 1x Universal Console that we can put anywhere anyway. And realistically, the ship shouldn't be too heavy in either Sci or Tac, so a 4th Eng (which could be used for armor, too), again is lovely.
To me the D'deridex is the penultimate Romulan ship, I really can't wait to get "behind the wheel" on this beauty. PLEASE do go ahead with the changes you posted.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
:eek:
If this becomes reality I'll cry manly tears of joy.
I think both are now very nice ships (very strong actually, poor FEDs and KDFs) that offer interesting possibilities with their Boff seating. So, just leave them as they are now.
That'd be very nice, and given the turn rate, I don't think anyone could call it OP.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
That's if they keep to the current vet ship all being destroyers.
Have you completely forgotten about gravity well and TBR? These are absolutely VITAL for no-win-scenario and as it currently stands there are no real appetising ships for running it.
The Mogai looked superb with its Lt.Com and was going to be my de-facto NWS ship, now it's out and there's no real replacement I'll have to stick to running it on my fed
Kirk's Protege.
I don't think the two situations are related at all. The D'Deridex is still in the testing stage. The Galaxy has been live for years.
The real issue with the Galaxy, and actually the primary reason why I'm not interested in the new Mogai, is engineering BOFF powers.
If they weren't all linked at low rank BOFFs through an annoying morass of shared cooldowns, and if there were some that were more flexible and more variable, the Galaxy's BOFF seating wouldn't be nearly as big an issue. And I'd be more interested in the Mogai as seen currently.
Since Engineering BOFF powers are as lackluster as they are and handcuffed by shared cooldowns, it's just a boring mess worth skipping.
Considering one of the primary arguments given by Archon for keeping certain parts of the D'Deridex as they are was that it needs to closely mirror the Galaxy, it's quite pertinent. If it's okay to make the two radically different in one respect, it doesn't make much sense to argue concurrently that the ships need to be nearly identical does it?
this is a good point. Were getting a vet ship, and it's very likely that were going to get other ships down the line.
Honestly, as i said before, at this point, i'd be good either way. Part of me would have the mogai and dehlan switched but at the time time if it's kept the same, i've come to terms with it and i'll enjoy it and make do.
Already got great boff setups for all 3, the t'varo, dehlan and mogai.
I will say though that we really do need a 4 tac 4 sci 2 eng escort/destroyer type ship somewhere.
Please change the D'deridex retrofit to the set up you mention.
Why is engineering appropriate for a destroyer? That's a question I'd like to see answered because it gets into a kind of larger discussion. Cruisers have an engineering slant. But Destroyers aren't exactly a defined class. They're very nebulous. The game didn't launch with them. And the few that there are are kind of misfits in the game. So how was it arrived at the decision that Destroyers need an engineering slant to them?
Again, I think you're stretching it. The Galaxy has been live for years. These Romulan ships are all in the very nebulous testing stage and very subject to change. That's pretty important. The Galaxy has been the Galaxy for quite some time.
the closest thing is the lobi ship temporal destroyer...
How long something has been broken or subpar is irrelevant to the fact that it's broken or subpar. Are you seriously going to tell me that getting decloaked at every interaction should stay ingame because it's been ingame for years?
If a heavy cruiser, especially one with additional gimmicks, isn't okay with the Galaxy's layout, how the hell is the Galaxy (without said gimmicks) ok with it's own layout?
Does. Not. Compute.
Bottom line: Either the setup is ok, or it isn't. It doesn't get to be ok for one thing, but not ok for something else, especially given how equivalent said things are supposed to be.