So was Luke Skywalker. Looks like a popular theme.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
The Dhelan has the wings of an escort like design, the bulkier hull that reminds people of a cruiser, and a big deflector dish. So its kind of a mix of all.
Still the Mogai is the most agressive looking ship that the Romulans have, the Valdore especially with its heavy cannon mounts on the wingtips and heavy armour plating.
Now the problem with the non-heal science abilities are that they dont work that well on the meaner enemies.
Gravity well seems to just tickle them, scramble sensors stops them from shooting you for like 3 seconds.
So to be effective, a science layout needs to be self-healing. I guess a Reman bridge officer with TSS3, polarize hull 2 and HE 1 would be good, but its not easy to get.
Also, as the romulans got that bad power drain, it kind of needs EPTX abilities more then KDF or Federation ships.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
7 T5 ships at expansion launch isn't bad. The Federation started with 3 at launch (Assault Cruiser, Advanced Escort, Reconnaissance Science Vessel), and got 3 more on the 45-day patch (Star Cruiser, Patrol Escort, Deep Space Science Vessel).
So with all the gushing over those D'deridex changes, what are folks actually looking at running with that layout?
X, X, X
X X, X, X, X X, X, X X
I don't have much experience with Eng Captains but I would probably try the following layout:
Tactical Team 1, Cannon Rapid Fire 1, Attack Pattern Omega 1 Torpedo HY1 EPtS 1, Aux2Bat 1, Aux2Bat 2, Eject Warp Plasma 3 or Reverse Shield Polarity 3 Polarize Hull 1, Hazard Emitters 2, Transfer Shield Strength 3 EPtAux 1
3 RCS consoles and 1 Neutronium will be probably a must have for this build. Dunno if the recent buff to RCS is sufficient for a dual heavy cannons build for the D'Deridex.
If the Dehlan would look better i couldn`t care less if the Mogai has a ltc eng or ltc sci.
Give me a better looking escort with the setup of the Dehlan and i am fine.
And for all those who want to have a ltc on the Mogai, you would get it then on the Dehlan and could use that one if you want a ltc eng....
But i guess you don`t like the look of it that much also....
And i have to agree, to my previous posters, we don?t know what the Mogai is cannonwise. It was in 1 fight(and that not even long) and had no further screenpresence since.
In add i have to agree also that canon facts don?t really matter in this game.
If canon would matter, we would never stand a chance in a borg stf with a 5 man team. Or imagine transphasic torps would be like in Voyager.
I did say it earlier in a post that I made that I believe that the reason were having all this debate is because no one likes the look of the Dhelan and we all want to fly the Valdore skined Mogai as a Tac/eng and others a Tac/sci. Why is this, well because we like the look of the Mogai a lot more than the Dhelan.
The Dhelan has the wings of an escort like design, the bulkier hull that reminds people of a cruiser, and a big deflector dish. So its kind of a mix of all.
Still the Mogai is the most agressive looking ship that the Romulans have, the Valdore especially with its heavy cannon mounts on the wingtips and heavy armour plating.
Now the problem with the non-heal science abilities are that they dont work that well on the meaner enemies.
Gravity well seems to just tickle them, scramble sensors stops them from shooting you for like 3 seconds.
So to be effective, a science layout needs to be self-healing. I guess a Reman bridge officer with TSS3, polarize hull 2 and HE 1 would be good, but its not easy to get.
Also, as the romulans got that bad power drain, it kind of needs EPTX abilities more then KDF or Federation ships.
I will not fly a Dhelan after having to at tier 2 as i really dont like how it looks. Anyway the Mogai ends up I can build something that works but I would like to be able to put some good heals on me and my team for hull. I use Sci for mostly Shield heal.
Im going to be blunt on how I feel the Dhelan ships look like in my opinion. They to me look like the Redheaded stepchild Klingon Bird of prey. Im sorry to the devs if that was harsh but its how it looks to me.
I really wish there was another skin variant for the Dhelan ships later on but there isnt that I can see. And as an observation that I made and someone else then also made we seem to be arguing because not very many people want to fly that ship.
On another note the Devs stated that they were not looking at the Mogai as being an escort but more to it being a Destroyer and I agree with this opinion. Now its layout might be similar right now to the Vet Destroyers but they could change it up a bit with the Romulan Vet Destroyer being Tac/Sci instead of Tac/Eng like the others.
Fleet ships cannot be counted because they are just "upgrades" over T5 ships and are locked to Fleets.
A choice of ship is still a choice of ship. A person can choose to fly one of the three free SA ships. They can pick up one of the Zen Retros. They can pick up a Fleet Retro. They're choices.
The Retrofits themselves are upgrades of ships. They're locked to Zen purchases (whether that Zen was bought with cash or through grinding Dil).
Mirror ships cannot be counted either since they are not common available and can run out due to their method of acquirement being entirely luck based and if you are counting those you might as well count the other Lock Box ships as well.
They cannot run out. Cryptic does lockbox replays.
The 8 lockbox ships are non-faction. The Mirror Ha'apax, Mirror Ha'feh, and Mirror Ha'nom are Romulan faction ships.
I don't have much experience with Eng Captains but I would probably try the following layout:
Tactical Team 1, Cannon Rapid Fire 1, Attack Pattern Omega 1 Torpedo HY1 EPtS 1, Aux2Bat 1, Aux2Bat 2, Eject Warp Plasma 3 or Reverse Shield Polarity 3 Polarize Hull 1, Hazard Emitters 2, Transfer Shield Strength 3 EPtAux 1
3 RCS consoles and 1 Neutronium will be probably a must have for this build. Dunno if the recent buff to RCS is sufficient for a dual heavy cannons build for the D'Deridex.
It's along the lines of something I posted in another thread where somebody wondered about an AtB build - though I did DEM3, figuring on slipping in the Marion DOFF.
I can't picture running RCS consoles. The only ships I have a RCS console on is a ship that doesn't have its Tachyo yet.
Somebody pointed out that with it being an AtB build, that the HE/TSS will have issues in regard to timing with the EPtA. You also run the risk of creating the Aux gap by using the EPtA for the HE/TSS. I think they dropped in a VM instead.
Somebody else had mentioned FAW3 and trying to squeeze a Dragon build into it.
I could come up with several builds for it when it had the Amby/Kam BOFF layout. This carrieresque layout definitely has me scratching my head.
What's a Marion Doff? I keep hearing about that one without getting what it is.
Now I did say that I could make the Mogai work no matter how its setup is. I have never chosen a ship in this game on premise of the Boff or console layout, I bought ships for how they looked. Whatever the configuration I have always made it work. Now this could be why I have never been able to build for PvP. But going into a fresh romulan character I hope to build for PvP from the begining.
It was simply an observation of mine that was then also seen by another member of the community in that not many like the look of the Dhelan ships and as such dont want their preferred setup on the ship they dont like.
We've been monitoring the feedback closely, and I'd like to run two specific changes behind the people here.
-We could swap the Mogai back to Tactical/Science and the Dhelan back to Tactical/Engineering. I can see that a lot of people preferred the old setup, but there seem to be some people who prefer the new version as well. The Mogai is the "heavier" ship and more comparable to a Destroyer in turn rate and hull, so Engineering seems to be a little more appropriate, but I can see the argument that the consoles for the Mogai have a more "Science" feel.
This could occur either by just swapping the current Dhelan Retrofit and Mogai Retrofit seating, or by giving the Dhelan Retrofit the current Mogai Retrofit seating and reverting the Mogai Retrofit back to its old seating.
I'd like to see more arguments for one side or another that involve more than personal preference.
-I am considering changing the D'deridex Retrofit to the following:
Ensign Tac, Lt. Com Tac, Commander Eng, Lt. Com Sci, En Universal
Consoles would most likely be adjusted as well if this change was made, probably to 3-3-3 on the Retrofit and 3-4-3 (4 Eng) on the Fleet version.
As always, these are just possible changes - nothing is set in stone.
I will be going ahead and making the proposed changes to the D'deridex Retrofit and the Fleet D'deridex.
The Dhelan and Mogai issue is a lot trickier; some people seem to like the current setup, others would prefer to revert it. There are some compelling arguments for both sides. For the time being, I am keeping the BOFFs and consoles as-is.
As always, these changes are not final, and still subject to possible change.
We will continue to monitor the feedback here, and I'm looking forward to seeing a lot more comments once we unlock access to all of the higher level content and ships.
It's along the lines of something I posted in another thread where somebody wondered about an AtB build - though I did DEM3, figuring on slipping in the Marion DOFF.
I can't picture running RCS consoles. The only ships I have a RCS console on is a ship that doesn't have its Tachyo yet.
Somebody pointed out that with it being an AtB build, that the HE/TSS will have issues in regard to timing with the EPtA. You also run the risk of creating the Aux gap by using the EPtA for the HE/TSS. I think they dropped in a VM instead.
Somebody else had mentioned FAW3 and trying to squeeze a Dragon build into it.
I could come up with several builds for it when it had the Amby/Kam BOFF layout. This carrieresque layout definitely has me scratching my head.
Good points. I should have mentioned that I'm playing KDF and therefore always have the additional power boost from my plasmonic leech in the back of my head. Still, despite this bonus you are probably right in regard to the sci-abilities. It's probably better to stick to the ones which don't rely on aux-power. Going full offensive with DEM3 might also be a better choice than warp plasma or reverse shield polarity. You don't need to much defensive abilities anyway thanks to the battlecloak as inherent oh-****-button. However this also means that the D'Deridex is most likely not going to be the usual aggroholding tank cruiser for most players.
-We could swap the Mogai back to Tactical/Science and the Dhelan back to Tactical/Engineering. I can see that a lot of people preferred the old setup, but there seem to be some people who prefer the new version as well. The Mogai is the "heavier" ship and more comparable to a Destroyer in turn rate and hull, so Engineering seems to be a little more appropriate, but I can see the argument that the consoles for the Mogai have a more "Science" feel.
This could occur either by just swapping the current Dhelan Retrofit and Mogai Retrofit seating, or by giving the Dhelan Retrofit the current Mogai Retrofit seating and reverting the Mogai Retrofit back to its old seating.
I'd like to see more arguments for one side or another that involve more than personal preference.
I'll limit my feedback primarily to this, even though it looks like they are staying as is for the time being.
VA T5 T'varo Light Warbird Retrofit X, X, X, X
X X, X X, X X, X, X
Consoles 3, 3, 3
Weapons 4/3
Hull 27000
Shield Mod 0.9
Crew 150
Turn 18
Devices 2
+10 Wep, +5 Eng
Can load cannons
Romulan Enhanced Battle Cloak
Console - Mega Torpedo
Fleet T'varo Light Warbird Retrofit Shipyard Tier 1 X, X, X, X
X X, X X, X X, X, X
Consoles 4, 3, 3
Weapons 4/3
Hull 29700
Shield Mod 0.99
Crew 150
Turn 18
Devices 2
+10 Wep, +5 Eng
Can load cannons
Romulan Enhanced Battle Cloak
I think this ship was, rightfully, toned down.
I think the only thing it needs is to have the Tac Ensign turn into a Uni Ensign.
I'm not going to go into a giant diatribe on this, but to be brief:
The available BOFF power metagame is still unchanged, going LTC Tac means you will generally be less optimal for your function due to the Ensign Tac.
That's the simple truth of this game atm, and why ships with 3 Tac or Eng
ensigns basically fail as a design. (Like that threadnought on the D'Deridex, or any of several dozens of threads on the Galaxy).
I'm not sure what to do here but beg at this point.
You guys seem aware that there is an issue with lower tier Tac and Eng BOFF power conflicts, yet you are not giving us any new BOFF powers, or moving current ones down a Tier, or anything else to alleviate the situation yet you continue to give us ships with 3 Tac or Eng ensign slots anyway. (or potentially 3, in the case of this ship - but it's pretty clear this ship is an offense focused striker)
Please take a small metrics sample on the success, or complete lack there of, of the Andorian Tac variant with 2x LT Tac.
VA T5 Dhelan Warbird Retrofit X, X, X, X
X X, X X, X, X X, X
Consoles 4, 2, 3
Weapons 4/3
Hull 31500
Shield Mod 0.9
Crew 450
Turn 16
Devices 2
+10 Wep, +5 Eng
Can load cannons
Console - Sabotage Probe
Fleet Dhelan Warbird Retrofit Shipyard Tier 2 X, X, X, X
X X, X X, X, X X, X
Consoles 5, 2, 3
Hull 34650
Shield Mod 0.99
Crew 450
Turn 16
Devices 2
+10 Wep, +5 Eng
Can load cannons
I don't really particularly like the layout of this ship now.
Mechanically it's now in a very wierd place, I suppose its in the "MVAE" zone but I really preferred the Eng heavy layout on this.
The Fleet T'Varo with it's fairly balanced console layout, and universal LTC should be the choice to fill the MVAE/BoP-lite role.
Ultimately, I prefer the old BOFF layout with the new console layout.
VA T5 Mogai Heavy Warbird Retrofit X, X, X, X
X, X X, X, X X X, X
Consoles 4, 3, 2
Weapons 4/3
Hull 33000
Shield Mod 0.9
Crew 900
Turn 14
Devices 3
+10 Wep, +5 Eng
Can load cannons
Console - Ionized Particle Beam
Fleet Mogai Heavy Warbird Retrofit Shipyard Tier 3 X, X, X, X
X, X X, X, X X X, X
Consoles 4, 4, 2
Weapons 4/3
Hull 36300
Shield Mod 0.99
Crew 900
Turn 14
Devices 3
+10 Wep, +5 Eng
Can load cannons
I agree that it makes sense for the Mogai to be a heavier, Eng style ship, and this BOFF layout is probably more appropriate - but at the same time the ship was very unique with it's former Sci focused BOFF layout.
I'm torn on this one, TBH.
Turn Rate:
I'm not sure what you guys can do for the Turn rate.
While turn rate 14, mechanically, is fitting from a balance standpoint - the physical design of this ship's model has it being so humongously wide that it suffers in that it's actual turn rate is worse than the number implies.
Other ships also have this issue (Raptor, Ody, etc), and it's always a shame to see a decent ship get relegated to the graveyard because of how model design can affect frontal weapon performance (and the Mogai is clearly intended to use narrow arc cannons)
I can only consider the ships what I can get without any requirements outside cost from the shipyard as viable ships because I cannot and will not assume everyone are in a T5 Fleet or can just grab any mirror ship from the Exchange.
That's a personal consideration though - it's an opinion.
My solo Fed/KDF Fleets are only T1...so I can get Ship Reqs. If I want a ship, there are multiple folks on both Fed/KDF that I can approach to make the purchase after I've grabbed FSMs either from the Exchange or the C-Store. That makes them readily available in my opinion.
Yes, they are just the +1 console, +10% hull, +0.1 shield mod over the Retros/other versions. Picking up the Fleet means that it's unlikely that a person would continue to fly the previous version. They may still pick up that version for its console to use with the Fleet version...but they're going to fly the better ship. Until such point as the person flies that Fleet vessel though, there are still the multiple options.
The Mirror Universe vessels are potentially available as long as the boxes exist. Given the sheer number of boxes spammed at us and the box replays...they may be rare, but that doesn't mean they are finite. They're not going to run out. Just because they may not be on the Exchange at a given point does not mean they will not be. Regarding the Mirror Vo'Quv, it's a popular variant of the Vo'Quv. It's going to be rare compared to others. Take a look at how many Mirror Patrol/Advanced are there by contrast. It shows how many Feds are popping the Dom boxes compared to KDF...outside of those that are keeping the Vo'Quv for themselves, their Fleets, or their friends. It could also be simple market manipulation - there are folks out there oozing the EC to do things like that.
The MU Ha'apax comes from the Tholian box.
The MU Ha'nom comes from the Temporal box.
The MU Ha'feh comes from the Dominion box.
I'm expecting more Ha'nom to be available than Ha'feh or Ha'apax...based on the rewards available from those three boxes. Again though, that's just an opinion.
I'm not saying they're not going to be rare - but that's different than saying finite which seems so final.
As for the JHAS, it's not a lockbox ship...it was an Event Ship and it's been made available from various DOFF packs. It's going to be extremely rare compared to lockbox ships.
While turn rate 14, mechanically, is fitting from a balance standpoint - the physical design of this ship's model has it being so humongously wide that it suffers in that it's actual turn rate is worse than the number implies.
Have you noticed that the collision box feels off for the Mogai as well?
I'm not sure what you guys can do for the Turn rate.
While turn rate 14, mechanically, is fitting from a balance standpoint - the physical design of this ship's model has it being so humongously wide that it suffers in that it's actual turn rate is worse than the number implies.
Other ships also have this issue (Raptor, Ody, etc), and it's always a shame to see a decent ship get relegated to the graveyard because of how model design can affect frontal weapon performance (and the Mogai is clearly intended to use narrow arc cannons)
On the Mogai turn rate: Honestly, I was afraid as well when I saw how the ship turned in the Ship taylor, but it felt to me that it didn't suffer in the same way as a Qin raptor. That might be just because the weapons are just not far front.
Also, the eng focus kinda helps (if you really need it, RCS, EPtE,...).
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
I don't know why people want the Mogai to revert to its old layout. Technically the T'Varo now allows for the Mogai's old hide&ambush tac/sci build. It even has now a LtC universal to field another highranking Sci-officer and also has 3 science consoles. Yes, it's one less science console than the old Mogai had, but it has an enhanced battlecloak. You can now use LtC sci abilities while cloaked!
By reverting the Mogai to its old layout you will just create a bad copy of the current T'Varo. Also we would loose the 5-tac console space chicken (Dhelan) if it would get its old layout back in the process.
Edit:
Even the D'Deridex is now going to get a LtC science slot. Together with the full science ships there are now a lot choices for science characters. Let the Mogai stay in its current tac/eng destroyer design, so we have at least one iconic ship of this kind.
WE have one already its called the chimera, and if you mean for romulans I'm sure the vet destroyer could take this role and I'd rather have the Dhalan a engi based escort... personal preference I suppose but the look of the ship just screams engi to me. While the light winged mogai looks very much like the science ships show in tng.
also no one said that you couldn't give dhelan a 5 tac 3 engi 2 sci set up for consoles...
and the D'Deridex and the other teir 5 new romulan ship should take the engi console focused roles.
Good points. I should have mentioned that I'm playing KDF and therefore always have the additional power boost from my plasmonic leech in the back of my head. Still, despite this bonus you are probably right in regard to the sci-abilities. It's probably better to stick to the ones which don't rely on aux-power. Going full offensive with DEM3 might also be a better choice than warp plasma or reverse shield polarity. You don't need to much defensive abilities anyway thanks to the battlecloak as inherent oh-****-button. However this also means that the D'Deridex is most likely not going to be the usual aggroholding tank cruiser for most players.
It's basically a jack-of-all-trades now.
Heh, the Aux thing didn't really occur to me either...like I said, it was pointed out to me. I was picturing a Leech and AKHG shields at the time - what Aux problems?
It's funny looking at what an Eng with Leech/AKHG could do in some of these Warbirds...stuff where you might have to worry about wasted non-existent overcap on Shields/Engines/Auxiliary won't be wasted while others will have a hard time getting there in comparison.
I see a lot of misguided feedback for the T'Varo, this is likely a lot of Fed only players thinking of this ship as an escort rather then as a raider like the description on the blog says. People that think losing a tac console for sci and getting a Lt Cmdr Uni was tonning this ship down or was a nerf are just showing how little they understand how a BOP works.
I'm hoping a lot of this is just people trying to trick the devs into thinking this ship is not OP with its current stats and not really just the pure ignorance it seems to be, or the Romulan faction will have a lot of trouble if this is what its made up with.
Most BOP pilots do use torps and/or a DBB so having a third tac ensign if you use the Lt Cmdr uni as tac is not an issue. The console and boff layout is perfect lets the ship swing either to eng or sci equally well.
On the Mogai turn rate: Honestly, I was afraid as well when I saw how the ship turned in the Ship taylor, but it felt to me that it didn't suffer in the same way as a Qin raptor. That might be just because the weapons are just not far front.
Also, the eng focus kinda helps (if you really need it, RCS, EPtE,...).
I've never had the issue with the Qin pivot that so many folks complain about. I adjusted pretty quickly to it (and outside of the goofy fore torp issues, haven't had a problem with it). I still haven't managed to adjust to the Amby's pivot though. Just can't get the turn out of it like the Kam.
The Mogai feels like it turns far too well, but like I mentioned a little while ago - the collision box feels off - I keep getting stuck on things that I wouldn't expect to get stuck on.
one thing i like about the rom ships is that on all of them you can go for a brawler 2 AtB setup, or have it be a ship that battle cloaks often because they dont have enough tac skills to keep basic skills at there system cool downs, so they might as well cloak after every attack. for a ship that needs aux for its cloaks, the advantages to tech doffs is an added danger to yourself.
i can understand wanting the t'varo to have a universal or sci ENS, but then it would be a vet ship with EBC and 18 turn, its already extreamly close to being that.
to me the dlahn looks like a steamy with sci trading to the LTC station for the ENS station. so again, ether AtB brawler, or a ship with just enough tac to set up a great decloak alpha
the mogai i found flew very nice, despite its awkward shape, when you use EPtE with it. i found that with all the ships with subpar turn. 14 turn becomes very usable with 2 turn consoles too, and this ship has plenty of eng consoles now. im confident that it can be used well.
the mogai i found flew very nice, despite its awkward shape, when you use EPtE with it. i found that with all the ships with subpar turn. 14 turn becomes very usable with 2 turn consoles too, and this ship has plenty of eng consoles now. im confident that it can be used well.
Speaking as someone who on holodeck flies primarily 14-turn ships (primary Fed ship is an Armitage, primary KDF ship is a Pegqu), with 6 points into SIT and maybe a Tachy (have it on the fed, not yet on the KDF), 14 turns into the low to mid 30s. They may not dance like some escorts/BoPs do, but they don't lack for getup and go.
Now, regarding the Mogai. I haven't flown one, but from what I've seen of NPC Mogais, the dimensions of the ship seem to actually work in favor of the ship in terms of getting narrow arc weapons on target. The horizontally wider firing box, and the way that ship distances are calculated seems to make it able to get DHC/Torpedo shots off at slightly wider angles than other ships.
Anyone who has flown the beast care to support/debunk my entirely anecdotal observation?
In the case of counting tier 5 romulan ships I agree with FTPdragon for once. Trying to say the retrofits will provide a different experience compared to their fleet versions is pretty silly.
Anyways, thanks for going over the DD boff slot again. I didn't look at what the devs suggested closely enough, how is there any way that boff set won't be OP? Since the skies the limit now, can we get 4 tac 3 sci 3 eng and 1 unv for the Mogai? Keep one of the old console sets and and the same stats and it should be balanced, right?
Speaking as someone who on holodeck flies primarily 14-turn ships (primary Fed ship is an Armitage, primary KDF ship is a Pegqu), with 6 points into SIT and maybe a Tachy (have it on the fed, not yet on the KDF), 14 turns into the low to mid 30s. They may not dance like some escorts/BoPs do, but they don't lack for getup and go.
Now, regarding the Mogai. I haven't flown one, but from what I've seen of NPC Mogais, the dimensions of the ship seem to actually work in favor of the ship in terms of getting narrow arc weapons on target. The horizontally wider firing box, and the way that ship distances are calculated seems to make it able to get DHC/Torpedo shots off at slightly wider angles than other ships.
Anyone who has flown the beast care to support/debunk my entirely anecdotal observation?
Without having measured it and directly comparing it with another ship, that's indeed what it seemed to me when firing DHCs and torps.
When close to target (that would generally be rather small in comparison - this Mogai is a large bird), I had no trouble hitting it, which I sometimes do with the Qin or even the mirror patrol escort.
EDIT: Cidstrorm, just look at the turn rate. Even with a very good Boff layout, the D'Deridex isn't overpowered considering other warbirds.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Comments
Kirk was a farmboy. :cool:
Still the Mogai is the most agressive looking ship that the Romulans have, the Valdore especially with its heavy cannon mounts on the wingtips and heavy armour plating.
Now the problem with the non-heal science abilities are that they dont work that well on the meaner enemies.
Gravity well seems to just tickle them, scramble sensors stops them from shooting you for like 3 seconds.
So to be effective, a science layout needs to be self-healing. I guess a Reman bridge officer with TSS3, polarize hull 2 and HE 1 would be good, but its not easy to get.
Also, as the romulans got that bad power drain, it kind of needs EPTX abilities more then KDF or Federation ships.
X, X, X
X
X, X, X, X
X, X, X
X
I don't have much experience with Eng Captains but I would probably try the following layout:
Tactical Team 1, Cannon Rapid Fire 1, Attack Pattern Omega 1
Torpedo HY1
EPtS 1, Aux2Bat 1, Aux2Bat 2, Eject Warp Plasma 3 or Reverse Shield Polarity 3
Polarize Hull 1, Hazard Emitters 2, Transfer Shield Strength 3
EPtAux 1
3 RCS consoles and 1 Neutronium will be probably a must have for this build. Dunno if the recent buff to RCS is sufficient for a dual heavy cannons build for the D'Deridex.
I did say it earlier in a post that I made that I believe that the reason were having all this debate is because no one likes the look of the Dhelan and we all want to fly the Valdore skined Mogai as a Tac/eng and others a Tac/sci. Why is this, well because we like the look of the Mogai a lot more than the Dhelan.
I will not fly a Dhelan after having to at tier 2 as i really dont like how it looks. Anyway the Mogai ends up I can build something that works but I would like to be able to put some good heals on me and my team for hull. I use Sci for mostly Shield heal.
Im going to be blunt on how I feel the Dhelan ships look like in my opinion. They to me look like the Redheaded stepchild Klingon Bird of prey. Im sorry to the devs if that was harsh but its how it looks to me.
I really wish there was another skin variant for the Dhelan ships later on but there isnt that I can see. And as an observation that I made and someone else then also made we seem to be arguing because not very many people want to fly that ship.
On another note the Devs stated that they were not looking at the Mogai as being an escort but more to it being a Destroyer and I agree with this opinion. Now its layout might be similar right now to the Vet Destroyers but they could change it up a bit with the Romulan Vet Destroyer being Tac/Sci instead of Tac/Eng like the others.
Going to have to disagree. Obviously, I already did - since you're disagreeing with me...but let's rip apart your silly reasons, eh?
A choice of ship is still a choice of ship. A person can choose to fly one of the three free SA ships. They can pick up one of the Zen Retros. They can pick up a Fleet Retro. They're choices.
The Retrofits themselves are upgrades of ships. They're locked to Zen purchases (whether that Zen was bought with cash or through grinding Dil).
They cannot run out. Cryptic does lockbox replays.
The 8 lockbox ships are non-faction. The Mirror Ha'apax, Mirror Ha'feh, and Mirror Ha'nom are Romulan faction ships.
The Ha'nom is a Science Vessel. 3/3 weapons, Cmdr/LCdr Sci, 4/5 Sci Consoles, Sensor Analysis, Subsystem Targeting, etc, etc, etc.
So uh...yeah, that leaves us 18 ships. Drop the 7 Fleet and you've still got 11.
It's along the lines of something I posted in another thread where somebody wondered about an AtB build - though I did DEM3, figuring on slipping in the Marion DOFF.
I can't picture running RCS consoles. The only ships I have a RCS console on is a ship that doesn't have its Tachyo yet.
Somebody pointed out that with it being an AtB build, that the HE/TSS will have issues in regard to timing with the EPtA. You also run the risk of creating the Aux gap by using the EPtA for the HE/TSS. I think they dropped in a VM instead.
Somebody else had mentioned FAW3 and trying to squeeze a Dragon build into it.
I could come up with several builds for it when it had the Amby/Kam BOFF layout. This carrieresque layout definitely has me scratching my head.
Not really sure yet maybe something like this.
Lt Cmdr Tac- TT1, CRF1, APO1
En Tac- THY1
Cmdr Eng- EPTA1, Aux2bat 1, Aux2bat2, DEM3
En Eng- EPTS1
Lt Cmdr Sci- Tractor1, HE2, TSS3
Or for a more tanky build I might not do aux2bat and run EPTS3 and aux2sif1 instead
and move the ensign uni to sci.
TT1, BO2, CRF2
THY1
EPtS1, RSP1, AtS2, DEM3
EPtE1
PH1, HE2, TSS3
Maybe the Dhael skin will be more to your liking?
...
What's a Marion Doff? I keep hearing about that one without getting what it is.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Marion_Frances_Dulmur
Greatly reduces Weapon Subsystem Energy Drain for 8sec when Directed Energy Modulation is activated.
+200 resistance to Weapon Subsystem Energy Drain for 8sec.
Now I did say that I could make the Mogai work no matter how its setup is. I have never chosen a ship in this game on premise of the Boff or console layout, I bought ships for how they looked. Whatever the configuration I have always made it work. Now this could be why I have never been able to build for PvP. But going into a fresh romulan character I hope to build for PvP from the begining.
It was simply an observation of mine that was then also seen by another member of the community in that not many like the look of the Dhelan ships and as such dont want their preferred setup on the ship they dont like.
This is what's going on...
...the rest is just - forum chatter.
Good points. I should have mentioned that I'm playing KDF and therefore always have the additional power boost from my plasmonic leech in the back of my head. Still, despite this bonus you are probably right in regard to the sci-abilities. It's probably better to stick to the ones which don't rely on aux-power. Going full offensive with DEM3 might also be a better choice than warp plasma or reverse shield polarity. You don't need to much defensive abilities anyway thanks to the battlecloak as inherent oh-****-button. However this also means that the D'Deridex is most likely not going to be the usual aggroholding tank cruiser for most players.
It's basically a jack-of-all-trades now.
I'll limit my feedback primarily to this, even though it looks like they are staying as is for the time being.
I think this ship was, rightfully, toned down.
I think the only thing it needs is to have the Tac Ensign turn into a Uni Ensign.
I'm not going to go into a giant diatribe on this, but to be brief:
The available BOFF power metagame is still unchanged, going LTC Tac means you will generally be less optimal for your function due to the Ensign Tac.
That's the simple truth of this game atm, and why ships with 3 Tac or Eng
ensigns basically fail as a design. (Like that threadnought on the D'Deridex, or any of several dozens of threads on the Galaxy).
I'm not sure what to do here but beg at this point.
You guys seem aware that there is an issue with lower tier Tac and Eng BOFF power conflicts, yet you are not giving us any new BOFF powers, or moving current ones down a Tier, or anything else to alleviate the situation yet you continue to give us ships with 3 Tac or Eng ensign slots anyway.
Please take a small metrics sample on the success, or complete lack there of, of the Andorian Tac variant with 2x LT Tac.
I don't really particularly like the layout of this ship now.
Mechanically it's now in a very wierd place, I suppose its in the "MVAE" zone but I really preferred the Eng heavy layout on this.
The Fleet T'Varo with it's fairly balanced console layout, and universal LTC should be the choice to fill the MVAE/BoP-lite role.
Ultimately, I prefer the old BOFF layout with the new console layout.
I agree that it makes sense for the Mogai to be a heavier, Eng style ship, and this BOFF layout is probably more appropriate - but at the same time the ship was very unique with it's former Sci focused BOFF layout.
I'm torn on this one, TBH.
Turn Rate:
I'm not sure what you guys can do for the Turn rate.
While turn rate 14, mechanically, is fitting from a balance standpoint - the physical design of this ship's model has it being so humongously wide that it suffers in that it's actual turn rate is worse than the number implies.
Other ships also have this issue (Raptor, Ody, etc), and it's always a shame to see a decent ship get relegated to the graveyard because of how model design can affect frontal weapon performance (and the Mogai is clearly intended to use narrow arc cannons)
That's a personal consideration though - it's an opinion.
My solo Fed/KDF Fleets are only T1...so I can get Ship Reqs. If I want a ship, there are multiple folks on both Fed/KDF that I can approach to make the purchase after I've grabbed FSMs either from the Exchange or the C-Store. That makes them readily available in my opinion.
Yes, they are just the +1 console, +10% hull, +0.1 shield mod over the Retros/other versions. Picking up the Fleet means that it's unlikely that a person would continue to fly the previous version. They may still pick up that version for its console to use with the Fleet version...but they're going to fly the better ship. Until such point as the person flies that Fleet vessel though, there are still the multiple options.
The Mirror Universe vessels are potentially available as long as the boxes exist. Given the sheer number of boxes spammed at us and the box replays...they may be rare, but that doesn't mean they are finite. They're not going to run out. Just because they may not be on the Exchange at a given point does not mean they will not be. Regarding the Mirror Vo'Quv, it's a popular variant of the Vo'Quv. It's going to be rare compared to others. Take a look at how many Mirror Patrol/Advanced are there by contrast. It shows how many Feds are popping the Dom boxes compared to KDF...outside of those that are keeping the Vo'Quv for themselves, their Fleets, or their friends. It could also be simple market manipulation - there are folks out there oozing the EC to do things like that.
The MU Ha'apax comes from the Tholian box.
The MU Ha'nom comes from the Temporal box.
The MU Ha'feh comes from the Dominion box.
I'm expecting more Ha'nom to be available than Ha'feh or Ha'apax...based on the rewards available from those three boxes. Again though, that's just an opinion.
I'm not saying they're not going to be rare - but that's different than saying finite which seems so final.
As for the JHAS, it's not a lockbox ship...it was an Event Ship and it's been made available from various DOFF packs. It's going to be extremely rare compared to lockbox ships.
But let's say we exclude the MU and Fleet, eh?
Ha'apax
Ha'feh
Ha'nom
Haakona
T'varo Retro
Dhelan Retro
Mogai Retro
D'deridex Retro
8 boats.
Feds: 27 after 3 years.
KDF: 13 after 3 years.
That's only 5 less ships than the KDF has after 3 years.
Have you noticed that the collision box feels off for the Mogai as well?
On the Mogai turn rate: Honestly, I was afraid as well when I saw how the ship turned in the Ship taylor, but it felt to me that it didn't suffer in the same way as a Qin raptor. That might be just because the weapons are just not far front.
Also, the eng focus kinda helps (if you really need it, RCS, EPtE,...).
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
WE have one already its called the chimera, and if you mean for romulans I'm sure the vet destroyer could take this role and I'd rather have the Dhalan a engi based escort... personal preference I suppose but the look of the ship just screams engi to me. While the light winged mogai looks very much like the science ships show in tng.
also no one said that you couldn't give dhelan a 5 tac 3 engi 2 sci set up for consoles...
and the D'Deridex and the other teir 5 new romulan ship should take the engi console focused roles.
Heh, the Aux thing didn't really occur to me either...like I said, it was pointed out to me. I was picturing a Leech and AKHG shields at the time - what Aux problems?
It's funny looking at what an Eng with Leech/AKHG could do in some of these Warbirds...stuff where you might have to worry about wasted non-existent overcap on Shields/Engines/Auxiliary won't be wasted while others will have a hard time getting there in comparison.
I'm hoping a lot of this is just people trying to trick the devs into thinking this ship is not OP with its current stats and not really just the pure ignorance it seems to be, or the Romulan faction will have a lot of trouble if this is what its made up with.
Most BOP pilots do use torps and/or a DBB so having a third tac ensign if you use the Lt Cmdr uni as tac is not an issue. The console and boff layout is perfect lets the ship swing either to eng or sci equally well.
I've never had the issue with the Qin pivot that so many folks complain about. I adjusted pretty quickly to it (and outside of the goofy fore torp issues, haven't had a problem with it). I still haven't managed to adjust to the Amby's pivot though. Just can't get the turn out of it like the Kam.
The Mogai feels like it turns far too well, but like I mentioned a little while ago - the collision box feels off - I keep getting stuck on things that I wouldn't expect to get stuck on.
Regarding the Mogai turn, this clip doesn't help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTPdWYo9zhQ
i can understand wanting the t'varo to have a universal or sci ENS, but then it would be a vet ship with EBC and 18 turn, its already extreamly close to being that.
to me the dlahn looks like a steamy with sci trading to the LTC station for the ENS station. so again, ether AtB brawler, or a ship with just enough tac to set up a great decloak alpha
the mogai i found flew very nice, despite its awkward shape, when you use EPtE with it. i found that with all the ships with subpar turn. 14 turn becomes very usable with 2 turn consoles too, and this ship has plenty of eng consoles now. im confident that it can be used well.
Speaking as someone who on holodeck flies primarily 14-turn ships (primary Fed ship is an Armitage, primary KDF ship is a Pegqu), with 6 points into SIT and maybe a Tachy (have it on the fed, not yet on the KDF), 14 turns into the low to mid 30s. They may not dance like some escorts/BoPs do, but they don't lack for getup and go.
Now, regarding the Mogai. I haven't flown one, but from what I've seen of NPC Mogais, the dimensions of the ship seem to actually work in favor of the ship in terms of getting narrow arc weapons on target. The horizontally wider firing box, and the way that ship distances are calculated seems to make it able to get DHC/Torpedo shots off at slightly wider angles than other ships.
Anyone who has flown the beast care to support/debunk my entirely anecdotal observation?
Anyways, thanks for going over the DD boff slot again. I didn't look at what the devs suggested closely enough, how is there any way that boff set won't be OP? Since the skies the limit now, can we get 4 tac 3 sci 3 eng and 1 unv for the Mogai? Keep one of the old console sets and and the same stats and it should be balanced, right?
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
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Without having measured it and directly comparing it with another ship, that's indeed what it seemed to me when firing DHCs and torps.
When close to target (that would generally be rather small in comparison - this Mogai is a large bird), I had no trouble hitting it, which I sometimes do with the Qin or even the mirror patrol escort.
EDIT: Cidstrorm, just look at the turn rate. Even with a very good Boff layout, the D'Deridex isn't overpowered considering other warbirds.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!