I know, but what would be needed is something a little bit more tac-focused. Sure, I'm going in confusion with all these changes. I think I'll see what happens but I really enjoyed the stats of the T'Varo.
I know, but what would be needed is something a little bit more tac-focused. Sure, I'm going in confusion with all these changes. I think I'll see what happens but I really enjoyed the stats of the T'Varo.
The fleet Ha'feh is what you are asking. 5 tac consoles, CM Tac and LTC universal
I am happy that the D'deridex will get better but i am sad that the Mogai stays as-is
Most ppl, including myself, want to fly a cannon ship, so it doest matter what Dhelan set up will be, sry to say this but that ship is really ugly (in my opinion of course).
Please revert to the previous changes or as been proposed make variants of both boff and console layaut of the Mogai.
A good argument is that there are allready options for tac/eng romulan captains in the form of the Jeh'hadar dreadnaught and Jem'hadar escort carrier. But for tac/sci there isnt any, since the 3 ships that exist (as far as i know) are not available for the romulan captains: the temporal destroyer cant be flown by romulans, the MVAE is tier 5 so again wont be available for rom-fed captains and the breen ship is again not available.
I've seen here counter arguments againt a tac/sci Mogai like not having enuf survability in eliteSTFs or not enuf aux power cuz of -40 all power. As far as goes the aux power (and power in general) there are plenty ways to get ur system power lvls up. And if u need more eng consoles to stack up armor then u are doing it wrong. On a breen ship with 3 flow capacitor consoles, leaving aside the plasmonic leach console, with Energy Syphon II in the lt.com sci, adapted honor guard shield (or maco for fed), honor guard (adapted maco) engine+deflector and polarized distruptors can get between +30 to +40 to ur power lvls and -30 to -40 to the enemy wich is way better then stacking 4 armor consoles, not to mention the 3rd and the 4th are allmost useless cuz of the stacking diminuising returns.
I am happy that the D'deridex will get better but i am sad that the Mogai stays as-is
Most ppl, including myself, want to fly a cannon ship, so it doest matter what Dhelan set up will be, sry to say this but that ship is really ugly (in my opinion of course).
Please revert to the previous changes or as been proposed make variants of both boff and console layaut of the Mogai.
A good argument is that there are allready options for tac/eng romulan captains in the form of the Jeh'hadar dreadnaught and Jem'hadar escort carrier. But for tac/sci there isnt any, since the 3 ships that exist (as far as i know) are not available for the romulan captains: the temporal destroyer cant be flown by romulans, the MVAE is tier 5 so again wont be available for rom-fed captains and the breen ship is again not available.
I've seen here counter arguments againt a tac/sci Mogai like not having enuf survability in eliteSTFs or not enuf aux power cuz of -40 all power. As far as goes the aux power (and power in general) there are plenty ways to get ur system power lvls up. And if u need more eng consoles to stack up armor then u are doing it wrong. On a breen ship with 3 flow capacitor consoles, leaving aside the plasmonic leach console, with Energy Syphon II in the lt.com sci, adapted honor guard shield (or maco for fed), honor guard (adapted maco) engine+deflector and polarized distruptors can get between +30 to +40 to ur power lvls and -30 to -40 to the enemy wich is way better then stacking 4 armor consoles, not to mention the 3rd and the 4th are allmost useless cuz of the stacking diminuising returns.
I mean no offense, but a little bit better grammar and spelling would be appreciated. Not to criticise your style, but just to let us understand what you are trying to say properly.
The problem with all the things you list is that they are almost all end game STF items.
You can buy engineer consoles, blue mk XI ones, for 15.000 ec. You cant do that with the honour guard set.
So... your whole argument is invalid. Is a ship better that is useful with around 60.000 spent, or that which needs STF gear to be useful in the first place.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
A good argument is that there are allready options for tac/eng romulan captains in the form of the Jeh'hadar dreadnaught and Jem'hadar escort carrier. But for tac/sci there isnt any, since the 3 ships that exist (as far as i know) are not available for the romulan captains: the temporal destroyer cant be flown by romulans
This is not a good argument at all. You cannot expect all players who favour the tac/eng design to acquire a lockbox ship. Prices for these ships are insane.
Also there are currently 2 ships in the Romulan roster which field a LtC Sci: D'Deridex (after the update) and the Dhelan. Also the T'Varo's layout is suitable to use its universal LtC for a science BOff. The Dhelan is therefore a tac/sci ship, the T'Varo can also be a very effective one thanks to the enhanced battlecloak. So tell me, why do we need another one of these ships?
Devs have btw. stated that the Romulans will get their own Timeship. Considering the layout of the existing ones there will be most likely your beloved tac/sci among them.
To an extent, I think it comes down to this (though I haven't read them)...match the Mogai to their mention in the soft canon books as closely as possible - then do the other with the Dhelan. If the Mogai is more Tac/Eng, then the Dhelan would be more Tac/Sci. If the Mogai is more Tac/Sci, then the Dhelan would be more Tac/Eng. Once that's established, then it would a case of tweaking them as needed.
Not sure if a eng heavy ship is tougher then a sci heavy, especially not if you need skills to clean dots, like you do in stfs. As far as i know there is no eng skill that can clean dots. And to rum EPtS a lt eng slot is enough.
I was about to say what captainforfun just said. Eng heavy slant doesn't make a ship tough. All you really need to carry is multiple copies of EPtS. And multiple copies of Tactical Team.
The toughness usually comes from the science side. With polarize hull and hazard emitters and stuff like that. The big hull heal in Engi is Engineering Team which nobody's really rocking these days anyways.
The Science BOFF seating is much more flexible and desirable. So the Mogai going Engi means I'm just not interested in flying it. It's not tougher than it was before this change. It's just more boring.
Unless there's something wrong with my game, I see the current Mogai with a Lt. Comm. Eng slot, meaning it is not a patrol escort.
And the Ens Sci and and Lt. Uni give great choices for your build. I can even imagine setups with the Uni to go all three ways.
So to all that feel the Mogai is now not a useful ship, I believe you should look again.
Yes, it looks more fragile, more advanced, sciencey than the Dhelan, but this new layout makes it a great ship, and you still can go with 3 sci powers in it.
(Come to think of it, maybe the Fleet Mogai could rather get 4 tac, 3 eng, 3 sci slots for a more universal ship.)
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Noone said that it's a weak ship - both are fine in their own way. Some of us (including me) just think it's a boring ship as it offers no new fresh experience and it is just another tankish escort - something I loathe as it promotes escort online / cruisers are useless and not needed PvE feeling. Yes you can get 3 science stations, but you cannot access higher science powers like VM.
I will agree thought, that the old mogai had a "fake" universal station, as everyone would pick eng anyway.
Why would I or someone else, wan't to roll romulan toon to experience exactly the same ? What would make me to suffer the horrible rep grind again ? I already have tac/escort, sci/escort why would I want to roll the exactly same just with another skin ?
An expansion should be both for new and old players. I understand Mogai is a lovely design and everyone wants to fly it with their own gamestyle. I'm just not sure we should sacrifice unique romulan playstyle options, just because tough escorts work so well - maybe too well.
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What are you planning to slot in that Lt. Commander Engi slot?
I sure hope it's something as flexible, interesting and fun to play with as all those science powers. And not something mundane and boring like another shield heal or reverse shield polarity or so on and so forth.
What are you planning to slot in that Lt. Commander Engi slot?
I sure hope it's something as flexible, interesting and fun to play with as all those science powers. And not something mundane and boring like another shield heal or reverse shield polarity or so on and so forth.
There were 18 choices available with it being a LCdr Sci.
There are 14 choices available with it being a LCdr Eng.
Obviously, some of the choices for either include lolbilities or redundant abilities.
The Sci abilities would could increased expenditure of skill points compared to the Eng abilities.
There are two new Eng abilities available at LCdr compared to three for Sci. Course, one of the Eng abilities is oft considered a lolbility.
The thing here though...is...is there another ship that provides those options? So its not a case of having the lack of options, its a case of some folks wanting those options in the Mogai instead of the Warduck.
Again, I'd say go with how the Mogai/Valdore was portrayed in Titan...if Eng, then Eng or if Sci, then Sci...and make the Warduck the other.
My gut tells me they should give the the Mogai an escort boff set up. cmdr tac, ltcmdr tac, lt eng, lt sci, ens univ. That's what I want because the console set up and original Cmdr slot are tactical, so anything other than a tac cmdr and ltcmdr would gimp it's true purpose, Im fine with it's turn rate, but maybe it should have better shields than the ha'afeh (which ever the escort version is i forget the name).
Not sure if a eng heavy ship is tougher then a sci heavy, especially not if you need skills to clean dots, like you do in stfs. As far as i know there is no eng skill that can clean dots. And to rum EPtS a lt eng slot is enough.
A Sci slant can be plenty heavy. Hazard EMitters clears DOTs unlike Engineering Team and Aux2SIF, ploarize hull breaks holds which keeps your defense up (defense is 0 when a tractor keeps you from moving), and I think TSS is actually a better ability for actually healing shield damage if you are managing your power. It also gives you the choice of offensive science powers: holds and disables and such, that can let you make an evern more offensive build. The offensive engineering powers aren't much to write home about.
Also, regarding power, I don't think lacking an aux bonus automatically makes your ship a bad science ship. Properly utilizing science powers requires you to manage your power anyways; you only switch to aux when you need to even in a science ship with 7 science abilities. oftentimes, that bonus power is soaked by the fact you have 3 other power levels to keep up, so having 15 bonus power means you can just set your weapon power slider 15 points lower and use that power on aux. The only time it makes a difference is when you max a slider. Theres a Singularity core that gives power to Aux, I tried that on a Mogai and it worked pretty well.
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Now I will agree a single Ens Eng slot was kinda weak (even the tier 3 mogai had a Lt Eng), so if they did swap the layout back, it would be better to have the ens slot the universal and the Lt slot the engineering.
Some possible compromises to make everyone happy:
1) Give us the Mogai Retro and a Valdore retro. Make the Mogai retrofit a science slanted ship and the Valdore an engineering slanted ship (because the Valdore looks more armored) and let us share costumes between them. THen we can pick the ship we want to fly.
2) Give the Mogai the following layout: Cmdr Tac, Lt Tac, LtC Eng, LtC Sci This puts engineering and science on par with each other and there aren't any non-carrier ships with 2 LtC stations, so it's something new and different. As far as consoles go, the fleet variant should have a 3 eng/3sci/4tac layout, I am undecided on what the non fleet layout should be.
3)Make the LtC slot the universal so we have our choice of the second high level boffs. They might also downgrade the lt Tac to an ens so that both the Eng and Sci boff slots can be Lt slots, since a single ensign slot by itself sucks (I should also note, if you follow the tier 3 mogai and early ship progression this suggested layout with a sci in the slot would fit exactly in with where that was leading (sci gets same number of boff abilities, but the max slot is 1 step lower)).
A Sci slant can be plenty heavy. Hazard EMitters clears DOTs unlike Engineering Team and Aux2SIF, ploarize hull breaks holds which keeps your defense up (defense is 0 when a tractor keeps you from moving), and I think TSS is actually a better ability for actually healing shield damage if you are managing your power. It also gives you the choice of offensive science powers: holds and disables and such, that can let you make an evern more offensive build. The offensive engineering powers aren't much to write home about.
Also, regarding power, I don't think lacking an aux bonus automatically makes your ship a bad science ship. Properly utilizing science powers requires you to manage your power anyways; you only switch to aux when you need to even in a science ship with 7 science abilities. oftentimes, that bonus power is soaked by the fact you have 3 other power levels to keep up, so having 15 bonus power means you can just set your weapon power slider 15 points lower and use that power on aux. The only time it makes a difference is when you max a slider. Theres a Singularity core that gives power to Aux, I tried that on a Mogai and it worked pretty well.
====
Now I will agree a single Ens Eng slot was kinda weak (even the tier 3 mogai had a Lt Eng), so if they did swap the layout back, it would be better to have the ens slot the universal and the Lt slot the engineering.
Some possible compromises to make everyone happy:
1) Give us the Mogai Retro and a Valdore retro. Make the Mogai retrofit a science slanted ship and the Valdore an engineering slanted ship (because the Valdore looks more armored) and let us share costumes between them. THen we can pick the ship we want to fly.
2) Give the Mogai the following layout: Cmdr Tac, Lt Tac, LtC Eng, LtC Sci This puts engineering and science on par with each other and there aren't any non-carrier ships with 2 LtC stations, so it's something new and different. As far as consoles go, the fleet variant should have a 3 eng/3sci/4tac layout, I am undecided on what the non fleet layout should be.
3)Make the LtC slot the universal so we have our choice of the second high level boffs. They might also downgrade the lt Tac to an ens so that both the Eng and Sci boff slots can be Lt slots, since a single ensign slot by itself sucks (I should also note, if you follow the tier 3 mogai and early ship progression this suggested layout with a sci in the slot would fit exactly in with where that was leading (sci gets same number of boff abilities, but the max slot is 1 step lower)).
This sounds like a good idea. I said something like this earlier, only except with the Valdore having 4 eng and 2 sci, and the Mogai 4 science and 2 eng.
Still I believe more Romulan normal science vessels would be better, and eventually more varied lower level romulan ships.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
The point is just that the Dehlan is so dam ugly (imo), i would prefer to fly the Mogai, but there is not really 1 engineering ltc power i would instantly imagine to slot.
Imo with the cloak 1 epts should be enough anyways, only other thing i would say might be a eptw to increase firepower, but that is it. So taht keeps me with 2 ens sci and an 1 lt sci power...
With the old setup i would have 2 ens. sci and 2 lt. and 1 ltc. i could slot sci skills in.
Probably would slot a he, a sci team, a polarized, TSS, a psw or a jam sensors.
That looks way more appealing to me then having a ltc eng. especially in a ship that can battlecloak and get away if needed.
Reynolds/Thokal
U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class/R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit TheWiseGuys
I want the Mogai as it was in game and in film, a damage dealing escort. Its not a cruiser, its not science vessel. Why make it one? .
We saw the ship in ONE battle in ONE movie. That's not a whole lot to work on; even it's name isn't canon. What in that movie even says it's an escort? it could have been a cruiser with a heavy weapons focus for all we know, and we NEVER saw all these flashy science powers in the movies or series; even Voyager only sent a feedback pulse once or twice a season.
Canon is a base, but the way STO is set up, it doesn't properly dictate everything in the game. The game is not the show.
We saw the ship in ONE battle in ONE movie. That's not a whole lot to work on; even it's name isn't canon. What in that movie even says it's an escort? it could have been a cruiser with a heavy weapons focus for all we know, and we NEVER saw all these flashy science powers in the movies or series; even Voyager only sent a feedback pulse once or twice a season.
Canon is a base, but the way STO is set up, it doesn't properly dictate everything in the game. The game is not the show.
It kind of has the escort design.
Cruisers are usually big with a lot of space in the hull, while escorts are usually more streamlined.
Actually the Mogai kind of reminds me of a Klingon Bird of prey with its wings.
Science ships seem to have big deflector dishes, something the Mogai lacks almost totally.
The Dhelan has a bigger cruiserlike hull, and has a large forward deflector system, which at least in STO would indicate a science-related ship.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
I want the Mogai as it was in game and in film, a damage dealing escort. Its not a cruiser, its not science vessel. Why make it one?
That's odd. No one, not even the devs, are thinking of making it a science vessel. It's previous setup was damage dealing ship (tactical focus) with a science leaning secondary focus.
It's current setup is damage dealing ship (tactical focus) with an engineering leaning secondary focus.
The debate is over how it's secondary focus should go.
I think you confuse science ships with an escort with sci focus. Noone want's Mogai to be a science ship.
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Still I believe more Romulan normal science vessels would be better, and eventually more varied lower level romulan ships.
I definitely agree here. I want to see that Romulan research vessel in game eventually. I do like the choice of some hybrid vessels, though, and I want to avoid seeing warbirds suck in the Escort/Cruiser/Science vessel boxes of the Fed ships. I want unique ships for a unique faction. As for progression, I would like to see at least two lineups for leveling (My suggestion was a Tac/Sci linup following the Dhealan and Mogai and a second engineering lineup).
On a side note, the reason I think many Romulan ships should have Sci heavy setups is that they were always painted as a subversive lot in the TNG and DS9, so that sounds a lot to me like the tricky sort of abilites Science boffs have: viral matrix to shut you down, energy siphon to steal your energy, disabling shields and weapons, etc. It's the same sort of thing as how Klingons were painted as an agressive lot, so they have an abundance of tactical consoles and tac heavy boff layouts on their ships.
Cruisers are usually big with a lot of space in the hull, while escorts are usually more streamlined.
Actually the Mogai kind of reminds me of a Klingon Bird of prey with its wings.
Science ships seem to have big deflector dishes, something the Mogai lacks almost totally.
The Dhelan has a bigger cruiserlike hull, and has a large forward deflector system, which at least in STO would indicate a science-related ship.
I believe the Artist said he was inspired by the BoP (which was actually originally supposed to be a Romulan ship, before the producers changed it), since he was working under the impression it was a design stolen from the Romulans (see above).
Anyways, I don't think Fed hullforms fit at all for basing stuff on, as I mentioned earlier, the D'Deridex is mostly empty space. Also we don't really see much in the way of deflector dishes on any Romulan ships, but it is interesting you say the Dhealan looks more cruiserlike, and then say it should be science focused.
That's odd. No one, not even the devs, are thinking of making it a science vessel. It's previous setup was damage dealing ship (tactical focus) with a science leaning secondary focus.
It's current setup is damage dealing ship (tactical focus) with an engineering leaning secondary focus.
The debate is over how it's secondary focus should go.
Exactly. I, and many others, see the Mogai as an escort first and foremost. It should not be a science vessel (and we should, in fact, have dedicated sicnece vessels), but some of us liked the Science heavy secondary focus while others like the engineering heavy secondary focus it has now. There's good reasons on both sides, and the reason there is so much arguments over it is because it is one of the ships everyone wants to fly, so they want their layout on it.
I do think it would be a huge blow if they removed the secondary focus altogether.
Honestly I don't know why the roms don't all have an LTC universal. With them having less ships in general, and eschewing the escort/sci/cruiser roles used by other powers it's the perfect choice for their play style.
The T'Varo retrofit exemplifies this concept, having a CMDR tac and a universal LTC slot.
Take all the other romulan ships and replace the (an, in the case of the DD) LTC slot with an LTC Universal.
Then use the lower boff slots to indicate the ship's focus.
As an alternative, perhaps you could look into 'variable' boff slots that can seat one of two specific boff types.
While it may be hard to implement, then you could have a Mogai or a Dhelan that has the normal seating, and then an LTC 'Eng or Sci' slot. Leave all the other seats the way they are.
If the Dehlan would look better i couldn`t care less if the Mogai has a ltc eng or ltc sci.
Give me a better looking escort with the setup of the Dehlan and i am fine.
And for all those who want to have a ltc on the Mogai, you would get it then on the Dehlan and could use that one if you want a ltc eng....
But i guess you don`t like the look of it that much also....
And i have to agree, to my previous posters, we don?t know what the Mogai is cannonwise. It was in 1 fight(and that not even long) and had no further screenpresence since.
In add i have to agree also that canon facts don?t really matter in this game.
If canon would matter, we would never stand a chance in a borg stf with a 5 man team. Or imagine transphasic torps would be like in Voyager.
Reynolds/Thokal
U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class/R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit TheWiseGuys
Exactly. I, and many others, see the Mogai as an escort first and foremost. It should not be a science vessel (and we should, in fact, have dedicated sicnece vessels), but some of us liked the Science heavy secondary focus while others like the engineering heavy secondary focus it has now. There's good reasons on both sides, and the reason there is so much arguments over it is because it is one of the ships everyone wants to fly, so they want their layout on it.
Pretty much this.
Honestly, I'm fine with both designs. Both have their advantages/disadvantages and give the player lots of possibilities. I'm going to get a Mogai regardless which layout wins in the end.
Honestly I don't know why the roms don't all have an LTC universal. With them having less ships in general, and eschewing the escort/sci/cruiser roles used by other powers it's the perfect choice for their play style.
There have already been discussions about additional ships that will appear at various intervals after the launch...some depending on how well LoR goes.
Yes, there are ~60 Fed and ~40 KDF T5 ships in comparison. Those ships were not all available at launch. It's taken over three years to reach that point.
There are also the 8 non-faction ships...available to all three factions.
There are additional Fed and KDF ships in the works. If folks keep buying Fed ships, there will be more Fed ships. If there's a boost to revenue from KDF ships, there will be even more KDF ships. The same goes for the Romulans.
Were they to make it where you needed to buy fewer Romulan ships...not only would it mean there would be fewer Romulan ships because of the lack of revenue...but that lack of revenue would simply be bad for Cryptic and STO.
Comments
The fleet Ha'feh is what you are asking. 5 tac consoles, CM Tac and LTC universal
Most ppl, including myself, want to fly a cannon ship, so it doest matter what Dhelan set up will be, sry to say this but that ship is really ugly (in my opinion of course).
Please revert to the previous changes or as been proposed make variants of both boff and console layaut of the Mogai.
A good argument is that there are allready options for tac/eng romulan captains in the form of the Jeh'hadar dreadnaught and Jem'hadar escort carrier. But for tac/sci there isnt any, since the 3 ships that exist (as far as i know) are not available for the romulan captains: the temporal destroyer cant be flown by romulans, the MVAE is tier 5 so again wont be available for rom-fed captains and the breen ship is again not available.
I've seen here counter arguments againt a tac/sci Mogai like not having enuf survability in eliteSTFs or not enuf aux power cuz of -40 all power. As far as goes the aux power (and power in general) there are plenty ways to get ur system power lvls up. And if u need more eng consoles to stack up armor then u are doing it wrong. On a breen ship with 3 flow capacitor consoles, leaving aside the plasmonic leach console, with Energy Syphon II in the lt.com sci, adapted honor guard shield (or maco for fed), honor guard (adapted maco) engine+deflector and polarized distruptors can get between +30 to +40 to ur power lvls and -30 to -40 to the enemy wich is way better then stacking 4 armor consoles, not to mention the 3rd and the 4th are allmost useless cuz of the stacking diminuising returns.
I mean no offense, but a little bit better grammar and spelling would be appreciated. Not to criticise your style, but just to let us understand what you are trying to say properly.
The problem with all the things you list is that they are almost all end game STF items.
You can buy engineer consoles, blue mk XI ones, for 15.000 ec. You cant do that with the honour guard set.
So... your whole argument is invalid. Is a ship better that is useful with around 60.000 spent, or that which needs STF gear to be useful in the first place.
This is not a good argument at all. You cannot expect all players who favour the tac/eng design to acquire a lockbox ship. Prices for these ships are insane.
Also there are currently 2 ships in the Romulan roster which field a LtC Sci: D'Deridex (after the update) and the Dhelan. Also the T'Varo's layout is suitable to use its universal LtC for a science BOff. The Dhelan is therefore a tac/sci ship, the T'Varo can also be a very effective one thanks to the enhanced battlecloak. So tell me, why do we need another one of these ships?
Devs have btw. stated that the Romulans will get their own Timeship. Considering the layout of the existing ones there will be most likely your beloved tac/sci among them.
HM!!! Maybe I'm happy again then ^^ *Runs at Tribble to know the other stats and the required tier*
I was about to say what captainforfun just said. Eng heavy slant doesn't make a ship tough. All you really need to carry is multiple copies of EPtS. And multiple copies of Tactical Team.
The toughness usually comes from the science side. With polarize hull and hazard emitters and stuff like that. The big hull heal in Engi is Engineering Team which nobody's really rocking these days anyways.
The Science BOFF seating is much more flexible and desirable. So the Mogai going Engi means I'm just not interested in flying it. It's not tougher than it was before this change. It's just more boring.
Unless there's something wrong with my game, I see the current Mogai with a Lt. Comm. Eng slot, meaning it is not a patrol escort.
And the Ens Sci and and Lt. Uni give great choices for your build. I can even imagine setups with the Uni to go all three ways.
So to all that feel the Mogai is now not a useful ship, I believe you should look again.
Yes, it looks more fragile, more advanced, sciencey than the Dhelan, but this new layout makes it a great ship, and you still can go with 3 sci powers in it.
(Come to think of it, maybe the Fleet Mogai could rather get 4 tac, 3 eng, 3 sci slots for a more universal ship.)
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
I will agree thought, that the old mogai had a "fake" universal station, as everyone would pick eng anyway.
Why would I or someone else, wan't to roll romulan toon to experience exactly the same ? What would make me to suffer the horrible rep grind again ? I already have tac/escort, sci/escort why would I want to roll the exactly same just with another skin ?
An expansion should be both for new and old players. I understand Mogai is a lovely design and everyone wants to fly it with their own gamestyle. I'm just not sure we should sacrifice unique romulan playstyle options, just because tough escorts work so well - maybe too well.
I sure hope it's something as flexible, interesting and fun to play with as all those science powers. And not something mundane and boring like another shield heal or reverse shield polarity or so on and so forth.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
There were 18 choices available with it being a LCdr Sci.
There are 14 choices available with it being a LCdr Eng.
Obviously, some of the choices for either include lolbilities or redundant abilities.
The Sci abilities would could increased expenditure of skill points compared to the Eng abilities.
There are two new Eng abilities available at LCdr compared to three for Sci. Course, one of the Eng abilities is oft considered a lolbility.
The thing here though...is...is there another ship that provides those options? So its not a case of having the lack of options, its a case of some folks wanting those options in the Mogai instead of the Warduck.
Again, I'd say go with how the Mogai/Valdore was portrayed in Titan...if Eng, then Eng or if Sci, then Sci...and make the Warduck the other.
I want the Mogai as it was in game and in film, a damage dealing escort. Its not a cruiser, its not science vessel. Why make it one?
You want a romulan science vessel? TNG had one I believe. It was no Mogai.
And why is it a bad science ship? Because it has little Aux power. -40 power and no aux power bonus is just not good science.
However, EPTX dont cost aux power, and they increase the lowered weapon power and shields.
So this is why the new Mogai setup is better.
A Sci slant can be plenty heavy. Hazard EMitters clears DOTs unlike Engineering Team and Aux2SIF, ploarize hull breaks holds which keeps your defense up (defense is 0 when a tractor keeps you from moving), and I think TSS is actually a better ability for actually healing shield damage if you are managing your power. It also gives you the choice of offensive science powers: holds and disables and such, that can let you make an evern more offensive build. The offensive engineering powers aren't much to write home about.
Also, regarding power, I don't think lacking an aux bonus automatically makes your ship a bad science ship. Properly utilizing science powers requires you to manage your power anyways; you only switch to aux when you need to even in a science ship with 7 science abilities. oftentimes, that bonus power is soaked by the fact you have 3 other power levels to keep up, so having 15 bonus power means you can just set your weapon power slider 15 points lower and use that power on aux. The only time it makes a difference is when you max a slider. Theres a Singularity core that gives power to Aux, I tried that on a Mogai and it worked pretty well.
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Now I will agree a single Ens Eng slot was kinda weak (even the tier 3 mogai had a Lt Eng), so if they did swap the layout back, it would be better to have the ens slot the universal and the Lt slot the engineering.
Some possible compromises to make everyone happy:
1) Give us the Mogai Retro and a Valdore retro. Make the Mogai retrofit a science slanted ship and the Valdore an engineering slanted ship (because the Valdore looks more armored) and let us share costumes between them. THen we can pick the ship we want to fly.
2) Give the Mogai the following layout: Cmdr Tac, Lt Tac, LtC Eng, LtC Sci This puts engineering and science on par with each other and there aren't any non-carrier ships with 2 LtC stations, so it's something new and different. As far as consoles go, the fleet variant should have a 3 eng/3sci/4tac layout, I am undecided on what the non fleet layout should be.
3)Make the LtC slot the universal so we have our choice of the second high level boffs. They might also downgrade the lt Tac to an ens so that both the Eng and Sci boff slots can be Lt slots, since a single ensign slot by itself sucks (I should also note, if you follow the tier 3 mogai and early ship progression this suggested layout with a sci in the slot would fit exactly in with where that was leading (sci gets same number of boff abilities, but the max slot is 1 step lower)).
This sounds like a good idea. I said something like this earlier, only except with the Valdore having 4 eng and 2 sci, and the Mogai 4 science and 2 eng.
Still I believe more Romulan normal science vessels would be better, and eventually more varied lower level romulan ships.
Imo with the cloak 1 epts should be enough anyways, only other thing i would say might be a eptw to increase firepower, but that is it. So taht keeps me with 2 ens sci and an 1 lt sci power...
With the old setup i would have 2 ens. sci and 2 lt. and 1 ltc. i could slot sci skills in.
Probably would slot a he, a sci team, a polarized, TSS, a psw or a jam sensors.
That looks way more appealing to me then having a ltc eng. especially in a ship that can battlecloak and get away if needed.
U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class / R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer
U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit
TheWiseGuys
We saw the ship in ONE battle in ONE movie. That's not a whole lot to work on; even it's name isn't canon. What in that movie even says it's an escort? it could have been a cruiser with a heavy weapons focus for all we know, and we NEVER saw all these flashy science powers in the movies or series; even Voyager only sent a feedback pulse once or twice a season.
Canon is a base, but the way STO is set up, it doesn't properly dictate everything in the game. The game is not the show.
It kind of has the escort design.
Cruisers are usually big with a lot of space in the hull, while escorts are usually more streamlined.
Actually the Mogai kind of reminds me of a Klingon Bird of prey with its wings.
Science ships seem to have big deflector dishes, something the Mogai lacks almost totally.
The Dhelan has a bigger cruiserlike hull, and has a large forward deflector system, which at least in STO would indicate a science-related ship.
That's odd. No one, not even the devs, are thinking of making it a science vessel. It's previous setup was damage dealing ship (tactical focus) with a science leaning secondary focus.
It's current setup is damage dealing ship (tactical focus) with an engineering leaning secondary focus.
The debate is over how it's secondary focus should go.
Fleet T'varo
X, X, X, X
X, X, X
X, X
X, X
X
0, 0, 10
Fleet Dhelan
X, X, X, X
X, X, X
X, X
X, X
X
0, 0, 10
Fleet Mogai
X, X, X, X
X, X, X
X, X
X, X
X
0, 0, 10
Fleet D'deridex
X, X, X, X
X, X, X
X, X
X, X
X
0, 0, 10
Fleet Ha'apax
X, X, X, X
X, X, X
X, X
X, X
X
0, 0, 10
Fleet Ha'nom
X, X, X, X
X, X, X
X, X
X, X
X
0, 0, 10
Fleet Ha'feh
X, X, X, X
X, X, X
X, X
X, X
X
0, 0, 10
Fleet Galaxy Dreadnought
X, X, X, X
X, X, X
X, X
X, X
X
0, 0, 9
Why does the Fleet Gal-X only have 9 Sci Consoles?
Cause Geko's giving it a hangar!
I definitely agree here. I want to see that Romulan research vessel in game eventually. I do like the choice of some hybrid vessels, though, and I want to avoid seeing warbirds suck in the Escort/Cruiser/Science vessel boxes of the Fed ships. I want unique ships for a unique faction. As for progression, I would like to see at least two lineups for leveling (My suggestion was a Tac/Sci linup following the Dhealan and Mogai and a second engineering lineup).
On a side note, the reason I think many Romulan ships should have Sci heavy setups is that they were always painted as a subversive lot in the TNG and DS9, so that sounds a lot to me like the tricky sort of abilites Science boffs have: viral matrix to shut you down, energy siphon to steal your energy, disabling shields and weapons, etc. It's the same sort of thing as how Klingons were painted as an agressive lot, so they have an abundance of tactical consoles and tac heavy boff layouts on their ships.
I believe the Artist said he was inspired by the BoP (which was actually originally supposed to be a Romulan ship, before the producers changed it), since he was working under the impression it was a design stolen from the Romulans (see above).
Anyways, I don't think Fed hullforms fit at all for basing stuff on, as I mentioned earlier, the D'Deridex is mostly empty space. Also we don't really see much in the way of deflector dishes on any Romulan ships, but it is interesting you say the Dhealan looks more cruiserlike, and then say it should be science focused.
Exactly. I, and many others, see the Mogai as an escort first and foremost. It should not be a science vessel (and we should, in fact, have dedicated sicnece vessels), but some of us liked the Science heavy secondary focus while others like the engineering heavy secondary focus it has now. There's good reasons on both sides, and the reason there is so much arguments over it is because it is one of the ships everyone wants to fly, so they want their layout on it.
I do think it would be a huge blow if they removed the secondary focus altogether.
The T'Varo retrofit exemplifies this concept, having a CMDR tac and a universal LTC slot.
Take all the other romulan ships and replace the (an, in the case of the DD) LTC slot with an LTC Universal.
Then use the lower boff slots to indicate the ship's focus.
As an alternative, perhaps you could look into 'variable' boff slots that can seat one of two specific boff types.
While it may be hard to implement, then you could have a Mogai or a Dhelan that has the normal seating, and then an LTC 'Eng or Sci' slot. Leave all the other seats the way they are.
Give me a better looking escort with the setup of the Dehlan and i am fine.
And for all those who want to have a ltc on the Mogai, you would get it then on the Dehlan and could use that one if you want a ltc eng....
But i guess you don`t like the look of it that much also....
And i have to agree, to my previous posters, we don?t know what the Mogai is cannonwise. It was in 1 fight(and that not even long) and had no further screenpresence since.
In add i have to agree also that canon facts don?t really matter in this game.
If canon would matter, we would never stand a chance in a borg stf with a 5 man team. Or imagine transphasic torps would be like in Voyager.
U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class / R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer
U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit
TheWiseGuys
And New Romulus is founded by farmboys.
Pretty much this.
Honestly, I'm fine with both designs. Both have their advantages/disadvantages and give the player lots of possibilities. I'm going to get a Mogai regardless which layout wins in the end.
Ha'apax
Ha'feh
Ha'nom
Mirror Ha'apax
Mirror Ha'feh
Mirror Ha'nom
T'varo Retrofit
Dhelan Retrofit
Mogai Retrofit
D'deridex Retrofit
Haakona
Fleet T'varo
Fleet Dhelan
Fleet Mogai
Fleet D'deridex
Fleet Ha'apax
Fleet Ha'feh
Fleet Ha'nom
18 T5 ships at launch.
There have already been discussions about additional ships that will appear at various intervals after the launch...some depending on how well LoR goes.
Yes, there are ~60 Fed and ~40 KDF T5 ships in comparison. Those ships were not all available at launch. It's taken over three years to reach that point.
There are also the 8 non-faction ships...available to all three factions.
There are additional Fed and KDF ships in the works. If folks keep buying Fed ships, there will be more Fed ships. If there's a boost to revenue from KDF ships, there will be even more KDF ships. The same goes for the Romulans.
Were they to make it where you needed to buy fewer Romulan ships...not only would it mean there would be fewer Romulan ships because of the lack of revenue...but that lack of revenue would simply be bad for Cryptic and STO.