as a pvp'er who still climbs the learning curve (show me one who isn't ;D):
out of my experinece i'd say, it's because pve teaches nothing viable about the game mechanics (specs, shared cd's, gear...). you have to know nothing about mechanics to level up to 50 and successfully complete estfs ...
my performance in pvp since i started to pvp got better and better by trying and asking. i do not have a ton of knowledge, but i found my build(s) and mostly know how to handle it (i use more than 10 ships on the same character in pvp).
as for fvk:
-advanced interceptors (yes, i'm totally convinced they are much worser than danubes)
-aceton in spawn-spam
-some other gimmicks i'm not aware of right now...
a while ago i took 2 pve'ers with little knowledge about mechanics into fvk c&h (they wanted to see some real klinks ;D). they were totally scared and didn't even see a ray of light... but they wanted to get better and i gave some hints.
This has to be the most divided thread I have ever seen. We have an almost equal number for and against, I am so excited. What is not exciting me is that the people who are for pvp seem to be quite reasonable and fair while the people against are just coming off as a bunch of whiners.
What you're experiencing is known as bias. It has very little to do with the relative quality of posts, and more to do with your own intellectual or emotional pre disposition towards a certain point of view.
In my own opinion, self identified PvPers in this thread are split pretty evenly between those who seem to genuinely just like PvP and want to have fun doing what they do, and those who seem angry or offended that other people just don't want to PvP. The need to belittle the "other" is rampant on both sides of the discussion.
In all fairness however, the thread asks players (Fed players, specifically) why they don't PvP. It doesn't ask PvPers what they think of non PvPers. So only one side of the supposed argument is even staying on topic.
So stop complaining. Pvers have plenty of areas to do their thing. We Pvpers have ONE open space zone where we are able to have unrestricted pvp combat. 'Nuff said.
The topic of the thread is asking, specifically, Fed players, whether they PvP and if they don't, why not. If it bothers you that people are actually answering the question, then perhaps take your own advice and stop complaining, stay in your own area, etc.
I don't see any one who is trying to take anything away from PvPers at all, but maybe you can quote an example from this thread? What I do see are many people who simply don't PvP much, and are giving their reasons why. Whether or not you consider those reasons "whiny" or whatever basically doesn't matter.
What do you expect to see? people saying that they don't PvP because it's too awesome and they don't like to have fun? Get real.
Anyway, back on topic: I'm not sure there is any way to get people interested in PvP if they don't already swing that way. There's not a ton of reward for PvP, the learning curve is pretty steep, and there's very little peer pressure to do it because barely any one does it. When you throw in the fact that some PvPers give a very poor impression on the forums and that some people may have had bad experiences in other MMOs, it's a tough hill to climb.
No. Not if I have a choice. If the game gives me no choice it had better be important to the overall story like a Picard vs. Riker being judged by master tacticians type thing, Otherwise, no way. Was that on topic enough?
In all fairness, most Feds go into Kerrat because they're just following a Mission Chain at level 6/7. They're not anticipating getting spawn-camped from the moment they arrive in the zone. They think they're just going in there to pew-pew some Borg and they end up getting blown to pieces even before they get to look around the zone. I had enough spawn-camping in Eve, thank-you-very-much.
The problem with Kerrat is that it's one of the only few places you can fight Borg before you're level 43ish and going into Gamma O. It's fun to get a taste of the Borg there - as the Tutorial Borg are a complete joke.
I have never seen kdfs spawn camping feds in kerrat. But feds spawn camping kdfs happens a lot.
And you can see the borg in episodes (there's a borg front after all).
All I do is killing people trying to score in kerrat (especially if i see they are first), killing people farming nodes and cubes, and people engaging me. If they like staying idle at the fed spawn camp for dilithium that's fine and i will leave them alone.
Sometimes, I might help some fed friends to rank 1st too but that's really rare.
I play both sides and have no interest in PvP. I especially have little interest on Fed side, because I just don't find that being the target for a bunch of stealthed rogues, er, cloaked Klinks, is really that entertaining for any one but the stealthed rogues.
When LoR gets here then both sides can skulk around cloaked, hopefully never finding each other for hours at a time. That'll be fun.
Honestly, look at this thread. It's mostly a bunch of KDF players slapping each other on the back telling each other how brave and cool they are for killing people who aren't interested in PvP in the first place.
It's sad in a way that's obvious to every one but the people doing it.
There are many places where you can farm vendor trash. But kerrat is the only place where you can farm white Mk XII trash. So, you have to earn it. And you earn it by getting better at pvp.
I used to do PvP, but to be honest, the lack of maturity just made it boring on so many levels.
Coupled with the fact that the PvP community is largely responsible for the damage to skills and abilities in the game, just makes that part of the game uninteresting to me.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
I used to do PvP, but to be honest, the lack of maturity just made it boring on so many levels.
Coupled with the fact that the PvP community is largely responsible for the damage to skills and abilities in the game, just makes that part of the game uninteresting to me.
That's true.
But you can also do it for the lulz. Most of the players in kerrat are actually easier to kill than probes. That's just silly and incredibly funny. :P But admittedly, the most exciting fights are against experienced players. And these people really earned their vendor trash.
I used to do PvP, but to be honest, the lack of maturity just made it boring on so many levels.
Coupled with the fact that the PvP community is largely responsible for the damage to skills and abilities in the game, just makes that part of the game uninteresting to me.
just a thought:
the ones who have most knowledge on ingame mechanics (the really good pvp'ers, or not?!; don't count me in there) are responsible for breaking them?! ^^... isn't it more likely the pve'ers complaining about fixing/adjusting broken stuff? don't tell me pve means a challenge to you, if you're in since beta ...
just a thought:
the ones who have most knowledge on ingame mechanics (the really good pvp'ers, or not?!; don't count me in there) are responsible for breaking them?! ^^... isn't it more likely the pve'ers complaining about fixing/adjusting broken stuff? don't tell me pve means a challenge to you, if you're in since beta ...
Yes. And no. Some balance issues were raised by the pvp subforum (which isn't representative of the pvp community). It has major consequences on pve most of the times.
Yeah I guess - but then its a sad state of the PvP.
I was in a match today that made me worried. We go in and right from the start just vaporized the Feds there - it was more than a slaughter - it was horrific - and they were trying.
15/0 - but even worse at the end none of them got above 15k dmg.
I actually felt bad because i wondered how many of them would try FvK again.
They will probably keep queuing up, isn't there a pvp Dilithium daily that only requires you show up to 3 PvP matches? But that's all they'll do, show up. Die. Rinse and repeat 2 more times. Its really just a form of farming. To you they seemed to be trying, but what makes getting killed faster than running out to meet the enemy?:D
As for FvF and FvK and why so few queu for FvK.... its pretty obvious to me. FvF has the advantage of not having to deal with extensive drain builds, battlecloak, very few cloaks, and likely less "i'm the greatest killer that ever lived, bow to me rawr!!" attitude. The fact that the KDF players are often veterans of many years while the feds have a significant portion of new players that are lucky to hold off a few weak NPCs also plays into this. The fact that many of the above mentioned KDF veterans work out their envy and frustration by frankly picking on far weaker opponents just because they can. It makes the whole thing leave a bitter taste in everyone's mouth. Some will consider trash talk a normal part of PvP, and then wonder why so few bother to have anything to do with it at all.
Before anyone starts listing of how to counter cloaks and drain keep in mind that at best its a hassle most players prefer to not deal with. In other games the rogue stealth classes are almost considered trolling/ganking classes by default for a reason. Most people simply prefer to avoid the hassle altogether.
just a thought:
the ones who have most knowledge on ingame mechanics (the really good pvp'ers, or not?!; don't count me in there) are responsible for breaking them?! ^^... isn't it more likely the pve'ers complaining about fixing/adjusting broken stuff? don't tell me pve means a challenge to you, if you're in since beta ...
Right there is the lack of maturity I am talking about...
Assuming PvP is the basis for the entire game is plain failure and arrogant... The core of this game is PvE, if you can't see that you're blind.
Also claiming that PvP'ers are the only ones who understand game mechanics... now if THAT isn't arrogant, I don't know what it is.
Sadly PvP'ers are also loudmouths who (again lack of maturity) cry and scream and stomp the ground untill they get what they want... And then they find something new to ***** about.
EVERY major change to skills has been the direct result of PvP'ers crying to Cryptic, and everytime they alter it, its still not got enough, and it will never be for you, untill the game has been dumbed down so much that you all leave, and leave the rest of us with a game that is boring beyond belief.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
Yes. And no. Some balance issues were raised by the pvp subforum (which isn't representative of the pvp community). It has major consequences on pve most of the times.
You want a pve challenge? see my sig.
hehe... sry, nope. indeed pve no longer means a challenge to me, so not to you as i see :P .
i did not complete the no-win-scenario yet. and here's why i'm not interested in:
it not really means a challenge to me. if i concentrate on and am going in with a pre- or pugmade, we probably would hit it at about the 3-5th time. it's always the same procedure (with different enemies, sure).
when i join a pvp map (i just love c&h, the most of a battle like in the shows you'll find ingame i'd say :cool:), i never know what to expect.
and i know those stated changes impact pve. but mostly idc, because it's not about the changes if you ask me, it's about the system they're made in ^^.
if sci- and eng abilities f.e. would get counted for mission completitions/rewards and the ai ships would be weaker in hull-strength, but smarter and more powerful in whole (i do not include bosses here now!)...... may in such a system those changes wouldn't affect the fight against bad-ai-zombies as it now does.
Right there is the lack of maturity I am talking about...
Assuming PvP is the basis for the entire game is plain failure and arrogant... The core of this game is PvE, if you can't see that you're blind.
Also claiming that PvP'ers are the only ones who understand game mechanics... now if THAT isn't arrogant, I don't know what it is.
Sadly PvP'ers are also loudmouths who (again lack of maturity) cry and scream and stomp the ground untill they get what they want... And then they find something new to ***** about.
EVERY major change to skills has been the direct result of PvP'ers crying to Cryptic, and everytime they alter it, its still not got enough, and it will never be for you, untill the game has been dumbed down so much that you all leave, and leave the rest of us with a game that is boring beyond belief.
where i did say pvp is the core of the game?! i said "the really good pvp'ers have most knowledge on ingame mechanics", not pvp'ers are the only ones who have in whole........ and sry, but that's an experience i made in not your glorious "since-beta-3-years", but in more over a year now and while still being on a hard learning curve in pvp^^... in pve i achieved everything there is for me! all sets, all ships i want, all gear i want for my 25 ships (intended as arrogant statement :P).........
i'm not the one who's shouting "arrogance", but sry: your whole post screams just that word+immaturity ^^.... i just make up my mind dear sir. thx.
ll.Before anyone starts listing of how to counter cloaks and drain keep in mind that at best its a hassle most players prefer to not deal with. In other games the rogue stealth classes are almost considered trolling/ganking classes by default for a reason. Most people simply prefer to avoid the hassle altogether.
FvF is going to change a bit when Romulans enter the fray, every Romulan ship has a cloak.
Even if they finally get around to adding Territorial Control, it would be too late. PvP in STO is so much of a joke it's better to find another game to do PvPing.
If Cryptic got a clue Territorial control would some sort of PvE race type of situation, not based in direct PvP. WoW has fantastic PvPvE maps that serve as good examples of this, Alterac Valley, Wintergrasp and Strand of the Ancients all come to mind. Wintergrasp is my personal favorite but who can resist driving siege engines and busting down walls?
I used to PvP all the time, in the first couple of years. My main char is a Tac, and he flew a Star Cruiser for some time and did quite well. I even won top damage a few times with that boat.
My other char is Sci, and he leveled up almost exclusively by doing PvP. (mainly because I didn't feel like doing the same missions over again...) This was back when Sci could really frustrate the enemy. The Klinks would come rolling in, there'd usually be bait everyone would rush to, meanwhile I can see the cloaked ships trying to flank us as we go after the bait. Once they knew we were on to them they'd try to run, but I would shut down their engines, and so forth. It was great fun on the way to level 50.
Once level 50, things changed. The KDF started to die off; finding enough Klinks to even start a match took longer and longer.
Then there was Fed vs Fed. Here it became one of two categories: you'd either face a PuG which could turn out to be a well-fought battle, or you'd face a pre-made where you get killed quickly. 14-1 felt like a victory compared to being swept 15-0. I don't like to lose, so that got old fast.
I haven't PvP'd with either Fed char since coming back from hiatus. I have gone to Ker'rat with my Klink though, mainly to get the drops, as I finished leveling him from Captain to Lieutenant General. Many times I had the map to myself so I can get my drop in peace. Other times I would gank the Fed(s) a bit just for fun.
I stopped doing F vs K right after the aceton assimilator spam started. When there are 7 or 8 of them at the spawn within the first 2 min of a match it gets old real fast. Kerrat is starting to get almost as bad with them. Out of every wep or ability in the game I hate the assimilator the most, so much that I wont PVP Klingons anymore.
Right there is the lack of maturity I am talking about...
Assuming PvP is the basis for the entire game is plain failure and arrogant... The core of this game is PvE, if you can't see that you're blind.
Also claiming that PvP'ers are the only ones who understand game mechanics... now if THAT isn't arrogant, I don't know what it is.
Sadly PvP'ers are also loudmouths who (again lack of maturity) cry and scream and stomp the ground untill they get what they want... And then they find something new to ***** about.
EVERY major change to skills has been the direct result of PvP'ers crying to Cryptic, and everytime they alter it, its still not got enough, and it will never be for you, untill the game has been dumbed down so much that you all leave, and leave the rest of us with a game that is boring beyond belief.
The problem isn't the PvPers, it's Cryptic; balance isn't something they're good at.
PvPers strive for balance, not OP garbage - yet PvEers cry when their toys get broken. Remember how many people whined when they found they suddenly couldn't hold entire groups of probes away from the Time Gate by just spamming Tractor Mines because the big bad PvPers wanted them changed so they weren't an iWin button?
And, lets by honest - the vast majority of PvEers don't fully understand game mechanics. Undoubtedly there are those that do. But then there's the ones using Aceton Beam 3 on Transformers for the Radiation Damage.
PvE difficulty is a joke, even on Elite. NWS isn't hard either. All you need is 5 Tac/Escorts to DPS blitz the TRIBBLE out of it, just like every other PvE mission/event in the game. And if it gets rough, just pop a TBR until you can CSV cleanse everything in 2 seconds again.
And you can see the borg in episodes (there's a borg front after all).
And if you had bothered to actually read the post you quoted you would understand that Kerrat is a level 6/7 mission for Feds. Gamma O is level 43ish. So yes, Kerrat is the only place you can generally encounter Borg before you're pulling near to end-game. You don't encounter Borg anywhere else for some 35 levels - unless it's a really random Exploration Zone mission.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I play both sides and have no interest in PvP. I especially have little interest on Fed side, because I just don't find that being the target for a bunch of stealthed rogues, er, cloaked Klinks, is really that entertaining for any one but the stealthed rogues.
When LoR gets here then both sides can skulk around cloaked, hopefully never finding each other for hours at a time. That'll be fun.
Honestly, look at this thread. It's mostly a bunch of KDF players slapping each other on the back telling each other how brave and cool they are for killing people who aren't interested in PvP in the first place.
It's sad in a way that's obvious to every one but the people doing it.
^This.
Maybe some day the Feds will get some of that Klingom "uniqueness."
Hope the Romulans hand them their buts.
D'deridex should have Battle Cloaks for Romulan uniqueness.
I think it will be very interesting to see what happens when there are a lot of cloaked Rommie/feds flying around in may/June. Ker'rat needs a change - definately should become a PvP lvl 40+ only zone - no farming. There are so many other drops now it's not really needed.
FvF is also going to be drastically changed with the fed/rommies.
I wonder if PvP will die in this game. talk of a PvP rep is also a bad thing as it will make it even harder for new players to compete - just get killed and dump it all together. Or become a massive afker situation the likes of something the game has never seen.
5+ years of nothing but PVP in games like World of Tanks or NavyField. I needed story instead of mindless and endless sessions of blowing other people up.
5+ years of nothing but PVP in games like World of Tanks or NavyField. I needed story instead of mindless and endless sessions of blowing other people up.
That's the big problem with all MMO's they can only put out enough story that will last a few hours that players eat up.
I mean what is the avg lenght of your stand alone game these days 10-20 hrs MAX for $50-$60 bucks - plus they might have some DLC's - The avg MMO player does min 10 hours a week.
Games like Skyrim are an exception and extremely rare with 200+ hrs of story missions.
YES... It is a PvP-zone... But YES it is also a PvE-zone... Consider it a mission were 2 sides fight each other in PvP in order to complete a PvE mission.
So it is actually both... If anyone visiting that place cannot respect that your parents did not teach you manners when growing up.
I play only KDF... For this I have my reasons that are not important.
What is important is that Ker'rat has a KDF-version called N'Vak in Omega Leonis, in this system I have never seen a Fed ship...
Why not request of the dev team to create a copy/paste model of Ker'rat/N'Vak in Sirius sector so that less experienced pvp players can play their wargames (which is also actually a daily mission) or do some farming with possibly some fed vs fed PvP without being jumped by KDF PvP players... That would leave the current system in the Fed/KDF neutral zone for only PvP... Maybe leave a few respawnable Cubes and Spheres to keep it 'borg', but no quests just a place were both feds and kdf can go for some "interesting" PvP.
Because I am sorry to say but many posts that I read here seem very pro-PvP and TRIBBLE the rest. I stopped reading at page 6 simply because I just couldn't handle all the selfish pro-PvP whining anymore.
I only started playing Kerrat two days ago and must confess.... I LOVE it! It's much better than the PVP ques imo. The fact that you can mix PVE with PVP makes the game all the more fun and story line more factual. After all, how many times has a Fed ship not been fired on unexpectedly during a mission?!
I find that PVP against Klinks tends to be the most fun, despite losing to them the most. Its more informative and friendly too overall and arguably they are the best PVP group hands down. That being said, I love flying Fed and going against them, especially in Kerrat. The only thing I don't like in Kerrat is the timer counting down and bringing us all back to the same spot. Sometimes you could be in the middle of a great dog fight and wham, your back to square one again.
Although, it is hilarious to watch the klinks in their BOP's scattering like mice and trying to cloak as the feds just fire away happily and take most of them out.... ah, Kerrat alone has given me cause to buy a Life Time Subscription the next time it goes on sell.
In another instance I found this klink being attacked by a tactical cube and several spheres and probes. Clearly, his time was up. In the spirit of Star Trek I swooped in from behind and... started protecting him and attacked the spheres and cube!! I am positive the klink captain must have been surprised to say the least. He managed to survive and together we fought and destroyed the cube and the remaining probes. We parted ways amicably ... fun!
Overall, I wish there was much more PVPve in STO. It certainly makes PVE more interesting and lets face it, the NPS's lack the "human" component. There is so much potential here that I am surprised that STO hasn't taken advantage of this more. Anyways, all this is just my humble opinion. That being said, its what would keep me coming back to the game, PVPve that is. I would add too that I wish we can fight against other feds if we wanted too. It would certainly eliminate AFK'rs
Edit: Admittedly, I don't think I have managed to earn even one piece of dill in Kerrat though... lol
"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward." - Rocky Balboa (2006)
I am worried that this type of attitude and this type of play in Ker'rat is what keeps many Feds out of the FvK Q's
I would much rather them make Ker'rat a neutral zone where Feds can farm free if they want - and instead have the Q's pop on a much faster and more consitent basis.
As someone pointed out most of the Feds are doing FvF - maybe they have been scared off of FvK PvP
This needs to change or PvP is dead in STO(more so for the KDF)
So let me make sure I understand you; You think that the way to promote pvp is to stop those big mean klingons shooting at the gentle little farmers and scaring them away?
So, in essence, you want to take away the games only form of open pvp to make more pvp?
Comments
out of my experinece i'd say, it's because pve teaches nothing viable about the game mechanics (specs, shared cd's, gear...). you have to know nothing about mechanics to level up to 50 and successfully complete estfs
my performance in pvp since i started to pvp got better and better by trying and asking. i do not have a ton of knowledge, but i found my build(s) and mostly know how to handle it (i use more than 10 ships on the same character in pvp).
as for fvk:
-advanced interceptors (yes, i'm totally convinced they are much worser than danubes)
-aceton in spawn-spam
-some other gimmicks i'm not aware of right now...
a while ago i took 2 pve'ers with little knowledge about mechanics into fvk c&h (they wanted to see some real klinks ;D). they were totally scared and didn't even see a ray of light... but they wanted to get better and i gave some hints.
...and kerr'at:
if a klink comes along.... >)...
What you're experiencing is known as bias. It has very little to do with the relative quality of posts, and more to do with your own intellectual or emotional pre disposition towards a certain point of view.
In my own opinion, self identified PvPers in this thread are split pretty evenly between those who seem to genuinely just like PvP and want to have fun doing what they do, and those who seem angry or offended that other people just don't want to PvP. The need to belittle the "other" is rampant on both sides of the discussion.
In all fairness however, the thread asks players (Fed players, specifically) why they don't PvP. It doesn't ask PvPers what they think of non PvPers. So only one side of the supposed argument is even staying on topic.
The topic of the thread is asking, specifically, Fed players, whether they PvP and if they don't, why not. If it bothers you that people are actually answering the question, then perhaps take your own advice and stop complaining, stay in your own area, etc.
I don't see any one who is trying to take anything away from PvPers at all, but maybe you can quote an example from this thread? What I do see are many people who simply don't PvP much, and are giving their reasons why. Whether or not you consider those reasons "whiny" or whatever basically doesn't matter.
What do you expect to see? people saying that they don't PvP because it's too awesome and they don't like to have fun? Get real.
Anyway, back on topic: I'm not sure there is any way to get people interested in PvP if they don't already swing that way. There's not a ton of reward for PvP, the learning curve is pretty steep, and there's very little peer pressure to do it because barely any one does it. When you throw in the fact that some PvPers give a very poor impression on the forums and that some people may have had bad experiences in other MMOs, it's a tough hill to climb.
I have never seen kdfs spawn camping feds in kerrat. But feds spawn camping kdfs happens a lot.
And you can see the borg in episodes (there's a borg front after all).
All I do is killing people trying to score in kerrat (especially if i see they are first), killing people farming nodes and cubes, and people engaging me. If they like staying idle at the fed spawn camp for dilithium that's fine and i will leave them alone.
Sometimes, I might help some fed friends to rank 1st too but that's really rare.
There are many places where you can farm vendor trash. But kerrat is the only place where you can farm white Mk XII trash. So, you have to earn it. And you earn it by getting better at pvp.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Coupled with the fact that the PvP community is largely responsible for the damage to skills and abilities in the game, just makes that part of the game uninteresting to me.
That's true.
But you can also do it for the lulz. Most of the players in kerrat are actually easier to kill than probes. That's just silly and incredibly funny. :P But admittedly, the most exciting fights are against experienced players. And these people really earned their vendor trash.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
just a thought:
the ones who have most knowledge on ingame mechanics (the really good pvp'ers, or not?!; don't count me in there) are responsible for breaking them?! ^^... isn't it more likely the pve'ers complaining about fixing/adjusting broken stuff? don't tell me pve means a challenge to you, if you're in since beta
that just prooves to me that good pvp'ers have most knowledge, regarding the pve farmers in there.
Yes. And no. Some balance issues were raised by the pvp subforum (which isn't representative of the pvp community). It has major consequences on pve most of the times.
You want a pve challenge? see my sig. :P
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
They will probably keep queuing up, isn't there a pvp Dilithium daily that only requires you show up to 3 PvP matches? But that's all they'll do, show up. Die. Rinse and repeat 2 more times. Its really just a form of farming. To you they seemed to be trying, but what makes getting killed faster than running out to meet the enemy?:D
As for FvF and FvK and why so few queu for FvK.... its pretty obvious to me. FvF has the advantage of not having to deal with extensive drain builds, battlecloak, very few cloaks, and likely less "i'm the greatest killer that ever lived, bow to me rawr!!" attitude. The fact that the KDF players are often veterans of many years while the feds have a significant portion of new players that are lucky to hold off a few weak NPCs also plays into this. The fact that many of the above mentioned KDF veterans work out their envy and frustration by frankly picking on far weaker opponents just because they can. It makes the whole thing leave a bitter taste in everyone's mouth. Some will consider trash talk a normal part of PvP, and then wonder why so few bother to have anything to do with it at all.
Before anyone starts listing of how to counter cloaks and drain keep in mind that at best its a hassle most players prefer to not deal with. In other games the rogue stealth classes are almost considered trolling/ganking classes by default for a reason. Most people simply prefer to avoid the hassle altogether.
The faster you kill them the happier they are lol, if you took your time and hid cloaked wasting their time ..... that would upset them!
Right there is the lack of maturity I am talking about...
Assuming PvP is the basis for the entire game is plain failure and arrogant... The core of this game is PvE, if you can't see that you're blind.
Also claiming that PvP'ers are the only ones who understand game mechanics... now if THAT isn't arrogant, I don't know what it is.
Sadly PvP'ers are also loudmouths who (again lack of maturity) cry and scream and stomp the ground untill they get what they want... And then they find something new to ***** about.
EVERY major change to skills has been the direct result of PvP'ers crying to Cryptic, and everytime they alter it, its still not got enough, and it will never be for you, untill the game has been dumbed down so much that you all leave, and leave the rest of us with a game that is boring beyond belief.
hehe... sry, nope. indeed pve no longer means a challenge to me, so not to you as i see :P
i did not complete the no-win-scenario yet. and here's why i'm not interested in:
it not really means a challenge to me. if i concentrate on and am going in with a pre- or pugmade, we probably would hit it at about the 3-5th time. it's always the same procedure (with different enemies, sure).
when i join a pvp map (i just love c&h, the most of a battle like in the shows you'll find ingame i'd say :cool:), i never know what to expect.
and i know those stated changes impact pve. but mostly idc, because it's not about the changes if you ask me, it's about the system they're made in ^^.
if sci- and eng abilities f.e. would get counted for mission completitions/rewards and the ai ships would be weaker in hull-strength, but smarter and more powerful in whole (i do not include bosses here now!)...... may in such a system those changes wouldn't affect the fight against bad-ai-zombies as it now does.
*EDIT:
where i did say pvp is the core of the game?! i said "the really good pvp'ers have most knowledge on ingame mechanics", not pvp'ers are the only ones who have in whole........ and sry, but that's an experience i made in not your glorious "since-beta-3-years", but in more over a year now and while still being on a hard learning curve in pvp^^... in pve i achieved everything there is for me! all sets, all ships i want, all gear i want for my 25 ships (intended as arrogant statement :P).........
i'm not the one who's shouting "arrogance", but sry: your whole post screams just that word+immaturity ^^.... i just make up my mind dear sir. thx.
FvF is going to change a bit when Romulans enter the fray, every Romulan ship has a cloak.
If Cryptic got a clue Territorial control would some sort of PvE race type of situation, not based in direct PvP. WoW has fantastic PvPvE maps that serve as good examples of this, Alterac Valley, Wintergrasp and Strand of the Ancients all come to mind. Wintergrasp is my personal favorite but who can resist driving siege engines and busting down walls?
Yeah, I think FvF will finally die then, except for Dil farmers which are all too happy to die as quickly and efficiently as possible.
My other char is Sci, and he leveled up almost exclusively by doing PvP. (mainly because I didn't feel like doing the same missions over again...) This was back when Sci could really frustrate the enemy. The Klinks would come rolling in, there'd usually be bait everyone would rush to, meanwhile I can see the cloaked ships trying to flank us as we go after the bait. Once they knew we were on to them they'd try to run, but I would shut down their engines, and so forth. It was great fun on the way to level 50.
Once level 50, things changed. The KDF started to die off; finding enough Klinks to even start a match took longer and longer.
Then there was Fed vs Fed. Here it became one of two categories: you'd either face a PuG which could turn out to be a well-fought battle, or you'd face a pre-made where you get killed quickly. 14-1 felt like a victory compared to being swept 15-0. I don't like to lose, so that got old fast.
I haven't PvP'd with either Fed char since coming back from hiatus. I have gone to Ker'rat with my Klink though, mainly to get the drops, as I finished leveling him from Captain to Lieutenant General. Many times I had the map to myself so I can get my drop in peace. Other times I would gank the Fed(s) a bit just for fun.
I also don't like playing a mage in a Sci Fi game.
2 aceton asses and orion interceptors a day keep the feds away. ^^
The problem isn't the PvPers, it's Cryptic; balance isn't something they're good at.
PvPers strive for balance, not OP garbage - yet PvEers cry when their toys get broken. Remember how many people whined when they found they suddenly couldn't hold entire groups of probes away from the Time Gate by just spamming Tractor Mines because the big bad PvPers wanted them changed so they weren't an iWin button?
And, lets by honest - the vast majority of PvEers don't fully understand game mechanics. Undoubtedly there are those that do. But then there's the ones using Aceton Beam 3 on Transformers for the Radiation Damage.
PvE difficulty is a joke, even on Elite. NWS isn't hard either. All you need is 5 Tac/Escorts to DPS blitz the TRIBBLE out of it, just like every other PvE mission/event in the game. And if it gets rough, just pop a TBR until you can CSV cleanse everything in 2 seconds again.
^This.
Maybe some day the Feds will get some of that Klingom "uniqueness."
Hope the Romulans hand them their buts.
D'deridex should have Battle Cloaks for Romulan uniqueness.
FvF is also going to be drastically changed with the fed/rommies.
I wonder if PvP will die in this game. talk of a PvP rep is also a bad thing as it will make it even harder for new players to compete - just get killed and dump it all together. Or become a massive afker situation the likes of something the game has never seen.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10052253
Why are you not rejoicing?
That's the big problem with all MMO's they can only put out enough story that will last a few hours that players eat up.
I mean what is the avg lenght of your stand alone game these days 10-20 hrs MAX for $50-$60 bucks - plus they might have some DLC's - The avg MMO player does min 10 hours a week.
Games like Skyrim are an exception and extremely rare with 200+ hrs of story missions.
YES... It is a PvP-zone... But YES it is also a PvE-zone... Consider it a mission were 2 sides fight each other in PvP in order to complete a PvE mission.
So it is actually both... If anyone visiting that place cannot respect that your parents did not teach you manners when growing up.
I play only KDF... For this I have my reasons that are not important.
What is important is that Ker'rat has a KDF-version called N'Vak in Omega Leonis, in this system I have never seen a Fed ship...
Why not request of the dev team to create a copy/paste model of Ker'rat/N'Vak in Sirius sector so that less experienced pvp players can play their wargames (which is also actually a daily mission) or do some farming with possibly some fed vs fed PvP without being jumped by KDF PvP players... That would leave the current system in the Fed/KDF neutral zone for only PvP... Maybe leave a few respawnable Cubes and Spheres to keep it 'borg', but no quests just a place were both feds and kdf can go for some "interesting" PvP.
Because I am sorry to say but many posts that I read here seem very pro-PvP and TRIBBLE the rest. I stopped reading at page 6 simply because I just couldn't handle all the selfish pro-PvP whining anymore.
I find that PVP against Klinks tends to be the most fun, despite losing to them the most. Its more informative and friendly too overall and arguably they are the best PVP group hands down. That being said, I love flying Fed and going against them, especially in Kerrat. The only thing I don't like in Kerrat is the timer counting down and bringing us all back to the same spot. Sometimes you could be in the middle of a great dog fight and wham, your back to square one again.
Although, it is hilarious to watch the klinks in their BOP's scattering like mice and trying to cloak as the feds just fire away happily and take most of them out.... ah, Kerrat alone has given me cause to buy a Life Time Subscription the next time it goes on sell.
In another instance I found this klink being attacked by a tactical cube and several spheres and probes. Clearly, his time was up. In the spirit of Star Trek I swooped in from behind and... started protecting him and attacked the spheres and cube!! I am positive the klink captain must have been surprised to say the least. He managed to survive and together we fought and destroyed the cube and the remaining probes. We parted ways amicably ... fun!
Overall, I wish there was much more PVPve in STO. It certainly makes PVE more interesting and lets face it, the NPS's lack the "human" component. There is so much potential here that I am surprised that STO hasn't taken advantage of this more. Anyways, all this is just my humble opinion. That being said, its what would keep me coming back to the game, PVPve that is. I would add too that I wish we can fight against other feds if we wanted too. It would certainly eliminate AFK'rs
Edit: Admittedly, I don't think I have managed to earn even one piece of dill in Kerrat though... lol
I lose to Klingons too easily
And I really want a new PvP map, or a (could be a Fleet) Starbase siege
I hope STO get's better ...
So let me make sure I understand you; You think that the way to promote pvp is to stop those big mean klingons shooting at the gentle little farmers and scaring them away?
So, in essence, you want to take away the games only form of open pvp to make more pvp?