So let me make sure I understand you; You think that the way to promote pvp is to stop those big mean klingons shooting at the gentle little farmers and scaring them away?
So, in essence, you want to take away the games only form of open pvp to make more pvp?
I think his point is that the first taste that Feds get of PvP is Kerrat - a place that isn't even really pure PvP and is full of players who just want to gank you rather then even attempt the Mission at hand. That turns many of the Fed players off, and so from around level 7 onward they have no real desire to ever PvP again.
The first taste of PvP shouldn't be an open zone camp-fest. Not if you want to keep players interested in PvP.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
So let me make sure I understand you; You think that the way to promote pvp is to stop those big mean klingons shooting at the gentle little farmers and scaring them away?
So, in essence, you want to take away the games only form of open pvp to make more pvp?
I don't think it's so much that as that FvK is full of a lot of BS; Siphon Drones, Interceptors, Acetons, Leech, etc.
There's also the fact that your average FeddyBear isn't as battle hardened from PvP as KDF players are. I've seen SO many Feds that not only do not use TacTeam, they don't even balance their shields. Heck, I even had an FvK match this morning where my Tac/Escort handily outhealed both Eng/Cruisers on my team... combined.
I think his point is that the first taste that Feds get of PvP is Kerrat - a place that isn't even really pure PvP and is full of players who just want to gank you rather then even attempt the Mission at hand. That turns many of the Fed players off, and so from around level 7 onward they have no real desire to ever PvP again.
The first taste of PvP shouldn't be an open zone camp-fest. Not if you want to keep players interested in PvP.
This is definitely 1 of the issues.
Fed side you start out from k-7 around lvl 6 into Ker'rat and it is KDF free until lvl 22 or so.
Then it becomes open PvP when they have been playing it for 15 levels as PvE ONLY
This is a bad set-up.
And no I said 1 of 2 things - make it PvP only - lots of other farming places now. Or neutral cease-fire zone.
It should be 1 or the other PvPvE just does not work well in STO.
Farmers are pissed - PvPers are pissed because the zone keeps resetting - everyone resets at the same location - zone is bugged half the time with Borg warping all over the map.
Fed side you start out from k-7 around lvl 6 into Ker'rat and it is KDF free until lvl 22 or so.
Next month it will be KDF full from level 6/7, though - just as it was pre-FTP.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
You fly around looking for cloaked klingons... no one around... you then die instantly from cloaked klingon using the uncloak buff (why the hell is there an uncloaking buff?), repeat till match over... its not fun to pvp fed vs klink. so go away.
How many are going to be rolling a new KDF toon anytime soon - like none.
Like none? What are you talking about?
I'd imagine most KDF players will make a new KDF character to play through the Tutorial, if not all the new early content.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Well that would make it better for the new fed players - lvl 6+ full of experience - battlehardened KDF PvPers
yeah that will be good for getting new Fed players into PvP
I never said it would make it better. I said it will suck, as it will be just as it was pre-FTP. Fed players will go into Kerrat at level 6/7 expecting to do a PvE mission, get camp-gawked by KDF, and then never bother to ever PvP again. You essentially chase the potential Fed PvPers away before they even learn if they want to do PvP.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
It's sad to see the attitude towards PvP in this thread. Unfortunately, I don't really have a counter-argument. PvP can suck, but it can also be glorious. When you have a team that at least somewhat knows what they're doing vs. another team of equal skill, there is no better fun to be had in any video game. PvP takes teamwork, and when you just team up with random people in the que, some of which may have never PvP'ed or are just doing it for the dilithium, it turns into a 1 sided slaughter that isn't fun.
I don't know what the fix is, but people saying you have to have elite gear or intimate knowledge of every skill is wrong. You need a basic understanding, which can easily be obtained by asking questions at the PvP forums here. It's just sad to see the general attitude towards PvP and how people give up on it so easily when it has the potential to be the best part of this game.
Fed side you start out from k-7 around lvl 6 into Ker'rat and it is KDF free until lvl 22 or so.
Then it becomes open PvP when they have been playing it for 15 levels as PvE ONLY
This is a bad set-up.
Its worse than that, my lvl ~18 Fed was dumped into the same Ker'rat that everybody is playing and got shot by knuckle-draggers with fleet gear. The design of Kerrat, feeding low-level PVE players into the gaping maw of end-game PVPers, is probably one of the worst things in the game.
- Spawn camping (that BOTH certain Feds and KDF are guilty of)
- Certain players hounding me throughout the map, determined to take me out.
- Taking on a dedicated PvP build packed with z store toys and clearly superior to my own ship
- Death by BoP alpha strike
- Death by even worse Jemmie Bug alpha strike
- Getting ganked 5 v 1
- Klinks taking me out while I'm tractored by a tac and getting overrun by Borg
- The quite colourful language that could occur in zone chat if someone is quite, quite upset.
Knowing all this, I still go to Ker'rat because I have a laugh. It's fun to get out of the situations listed above and it's fun to dish out some of my own punishment on the klinks responsible. It's because of these 'problems' I turn up in the first place, it's what makes the place exciting.
You fly around looking for cloaked klingons... no one around... you then die instantly from cloaked klingon using the uncloak buff (why the hell is there an uncloaking buff?), repeat till match over... its not fun to pvp fed vs klink. so go away.
I usually experience an aft barrage (Can't keep them away from my aft end) that ends after the BoP in question eats half a dozen Plasma meatballs and Battle Cloaks to run away (boldly like a warrior little girl)
Then 2 or 3 Sci BoP hits me with subneucleonic cheat, a few sensor scrambles, disables all my systems with there selective beam spells and then tractor beams me to be sure.
That's some good fun there.
There shouldn't be mages in STO just because Cryptic had to follow a tired old MMO trope.
I usually experience an aft barrage (Can't keep them away from my aft end) that ends after the BoP in question eats half a dozen Plasma meatballs and Battle Cloaks to run away (boldly like a warrior little girl)
Then 2 or 3 Sci BoP hits me with subneucleonic cheat, a few sensor scrambles, disables all my systems with there selective beam spells and then tractor beams me to be sure.
That's some good fun there.
There shouldn't be mages in STO just because Cryptic had to follow a tired old MMO trope.
How to improve STO:
Step 1) Remove Mage Class.
Oh yea, another thing that happens is viral matrix x 10... and the klinks get it first cause well they hit you with it when they uncloak.
I agree with Mr. Panda. The OP spamming of Leech and Aceton and the other "i win" abilities in FvsK has driven myself and many others away. I spent about 2 weeks, myself and a fleet mate farming in Kerrat every night. (he needed EC and some XII gear) And every night the same pack of KDF would all be in BOP's and run in a pack of 4 or 5 and remain cloaked the entire time until they spotted someone alone or fighting the Borg and then swoop in and one shot them with alpha strikes. Then brag in chat how awesome they are for being able to kill players by 4 of them attacking a single player at once. This caused after a few min all the Feds to change Zones or leave. Not so much the trolling and griefing in chat but the fact that they would not fight. As soon as any Feds went after them they would cloak and run. So from watching this night after night then seeing that most of the Fed teams and players just leave when this "pack" arrived. And then having them complain in chat about not having anyone to kill. Humm?? I wonder why
Maybe some day the Feds will get some of that Klingom "uniqueness."
Hope the Romulans hand them their buts.
D'deridex should have Battle Cloaks for Romulan uniqueness.
The uniqueness in KDF PVP is proficiency in PVP.
You should try it sometime instead of the Self-Defeatist Mentality alot of you Starfleet adopt.
The ships for the Federation are not the problem. Their ship lineup offers a very diverse group to choose from and are capable in the task. Escorts, Cruisers, Sci Vessels, there's great options in each.
What the REAL key deciding factor for the KDF in PVP, as I mentioned is proficiency. Proficiency on average for the KDF player population as a whole. Far more KDF players in our small population PVP regularly. That alone means that even in a PUG on PUG match, most of the time I'd lay my confidence with the KDF PUG.
I'm not saying there aren't good Fed PVPers. They are out there and we do get good back and forth matches even on the instanced Arena & Cap/Hold ones. There are Fed fleets out there with a good rep for PVP. But out of this huge morass of Fed players, only very few are active and / or proficient in PVP.
When you start out in PVP, expect to get wiped out quickly. The key thing to do if you want to get better is:
1. Learn the ins and out of STO's gameplay. The more you dig into ship abilities, stats, BOFF skills, etc., you start learning how inefficient for combat your build is. Once you get a better feel, you zoom off to...
2. Refine your Ship & BOFF layout. Build these layouts to a suitable style for your ship and playstyle.
3. Fight in PVP: Test out your adjustments, refine your reactions to use skills at the proper time. Watch your opponents and learn to look for strengths and weaknesses. Reacting to player actions in a PVP match is faster than PVE. Gets very crazy sometimes. And expect to get blown up sometime, or alot
4. Remember: Support your teammates. Cross team support, whether you're attacking whoever is attacking a teammate, or sending help via Attack Pattern Delta, Transfer Shield Strength, Eng/Tac/Sci Team, Extend Shields, etc., are the backbone of successful team. Regardless of what ships, captain type, weapons, gear, or even skill level on a team, if there is no teamwork, winning becomes more difficult, and the team with actual teamwork will roll the other. When I PVP as a Fed, crossteam support is a fundamental problem on average. When I PVP as KDF, crossteam support is likely to be found.
5. Lone members are easy prey. Strength is found with your allies, most especially so when you're new to PVP.
6. Resume at Step 1.
PVP for me is far more enticing because a well captained opposing ship / team is far more capable and dangerous than anything PVE offers. The only challenge PVE brings is cheap one-shotting, nothing else. In addition, due to the very nature of PVP requiring you to really learn the ins and outs of the game, and constantly adjusting your build, your character and ship will be very fine tuned to whatever PVE dares to throw at you. You'll learn to make more with less due to the forced efficiency of PVP.
Remember, if you start off in PVP, prepare to get humbled a bit with some confounding, quick deaths. Keep at it and learn the game more.
You can get away with practically anything in PVE. But not in PVP.
I agree with Mr. Panda. The OP spamming of Leech and Aceton and the other "i win" abilities in FvsK has driven myself and many others away. I spent about 2 weeks, myself and a fleet mate farming in Kerrat every night. (he needed EC and some XII gear) And every night the same pack of KDF would all be in BOP's and run in a pack of 4 or 5 and remain cloaked the entire time until they spotted someone alone or fighting the Borg and then swoop in and one shot them with alpha strikes. Then brag in chat how awesome they are for being able to kill players by 4 of them attacking a single player at once. This caused after a few min all the Feds to change Zones or leave. Not so much the trolling and griefing in chat but the fact that they would not fight. As soon as any Feds went after them they would cloak and run. So from watching this night after night then seeing that most of the Fed teams and players just leave when this "pack" arrived. And then having them complain in chat about not having anyone to kill. Humm?? I wonder why
You are complaining about PVPers looking for PVP in a PVP zone, which Kerrat is. I know all you'd like nothing more than to farm in peace in a PVP zone and reap the rewards.
I don't PVP much at endgame for a number of reasons. And the rare times I do, it is in non-serious, private games with friends/fleet - never the queues.
My reasons? Put briefly, in my opinion:
The learning curve for PVP is too steep
I don't like the current model, which has become subject to power creep - it has too many BOFF/DOFF/Gear/Set, etc powers which stack, and require too much button mashing
There are elements of the playerbase whose behaviour is unpleasant
There is no real incentive/reward to PVP
Put together, these make PVP not much fun and therefore not worth my time - in my humble opinion.
Longer Version:
For those who want further explanation of why I hold these views. These are all in my opinion:
Steep Learning Curve:
I'm not going to go into this as has already been covered. The PVP game is dramatically different from PVP. To have any hope of being passable at PVP takes a lot of time, and many hard lessons. I'm here to have fun, why should I put up with all the things that I don't like (listed below)? Why should I put myself through multiple 15-0 matches against players who are vastly more skilled than I will ever be? Why should I bother?
My gripes with the Current PVP Model:
The game is beginning to suffer from power creep. It is too built around builds and boff powers, and not enough on manuevre and positioning in my view. You pretty much have to use keybinds and cycle/mash buttons continually to stand a chance.
Boff powers play far too big a role, and are too powerful when stacked. I strongly dislike this model. I've seen it lead to ridiculously powerful Alpha/spike damage, whilst I've seen other players never dropping below full shields and 99% hull, even when under heavy attack by multiple players.
Even if all the other players were appalling, and carrying Common Mk I items - in my view this shouldn't happen. No build/combination of skills/powers should be that decisive.
I dabbled in PVP a bit in the early game. The few times it was enjoyable was at the lower levels, when all the players were at the same skill/equipment level - where there were no boff powers to mash and gaping equipment/skill gaps.
Player Behavour:
I popped into Kerrat briefly earlier to see if anything had changed. Despite what some have said, from my own experiences, a significant chunk of zone chat is childish trash. Here's some highlights from a 5 minute period earlier this evening (names/zones censored as a courtesy).
[Zone] ***@***: NAME CENSORED you think your hot b**h but your really not
[Zone] ***@***: I just dont wanna be trolled for the entire day by bop scratches
[Zone] ***@***: lol, you're a big man huh?
I have had similar experiences in PUG queue matches. It may only be a small minority that trash talks, but it spoils it for everyone, especially when it is from a player against which you realistically never stood much of a chance against (due to above issues). I come onto STO to have fun, not to be subject to abuse or hear childish insults thrown at others.
Lack of Incentives/Rewards:
KDF clearly have a very good reason to PVP. In addition to the repeatables and dailies, they also get bonus dil for kills, dying, etc. Feds don't.
I'm not saying the KDF should lose one of the few unique bonuses they still have. I'm just pointing out that there is not much to incentivise me to put up with all the above. The negatives outweigh the positives.
Sure, why bother figuring out how to cope with the game's challenges when you can be on Cryptic's case long enough to annoy them into removing any little obstacle.
Let them just make PvE environments where we pick flowers on green meadows and rainbows that give dil. pop out of the ground and the sun shines oh so bright! :P
Sure, why bother figuring out how to cope with the game's challenges when you can be on Cryptic's case long enough to annoy them into removing any little obstacle.
Let them just make PvE environments where we pick flowers on green meadows and rainbows that give dil. pop out of the ground and the sun shines oh so bright! :P
...We're halfway there with Eppoh tagging...I almost feel ashamed my proud warriors are reduced to tagging space bunnies for marks...
I don't PVP much at endgame for a number of reasons. And the rare times I do, it is in non-serious, private games with friends/fleet - never the queues.
My reasons? Put briefly, in my opinion:
The learning curve for PVP is too steep
I don't like the current model, which has become subject to power creep - it has too many BOFF/DOFF/Gear/Set, etc powers which stack, and require too much button mashing
There are elements of the playerbase whose behaviour is unpleasant
There is no real incentive/reward to PVP
Put together, these make PVP not much fun and therefore not worth my time - in my humble opinion.
Longer Version:
For those who want further explanation of why I hold these views. These are all in my opinion:
Steep Learning Curve:
I'm not going to go into this as has already been covered. The PVP game is dramatically different from PVP. To have any hope of being passable at PVP takes a lot of time, and many hard lessons. I'm here to have fun, why should I put up with all the things that I don't like (listed below)? Why should I put myself through multiple 15-0 matches against players who are vastly more skilled than I will ever be? Why should I bother?
My gripes with the Current PVP Model:
The game is beginning to suffer from power creep. It is too built around builds and boff powers, and not enough on manuevre and positioning in my view. You pretty much have to use keybinds and cycle/mash buttons continually to stand a chance.
Boff powers play far too big a role, and are too powerful when stacked. I strongly dislike this model. I've seen it lead to ridiculously powerful Alpha/spike damage, whilst I've seen other players never dropping below full shields and 99% hull, even when under heavy attack by multiple players.
Even if all the other players were appalling, and carrying Common Mk I items - in my view this shouldn't happen. No build/combination of skills/powers should be that decisive.
I dabbled in PVP a bit in the early game. The few times it was enjoyable was at the lower levels, when all the players were at the same skill/equipment level - where there were no boff powers to mash and gaping equipment/skill gaps.
Player Behavour:
I popped into Kerrat briefly earlier to see if anything had changed. Despite what some have said, from my own experiences, a significant chunk of zone chat is childish trash. Here's some highlights from a 5 minute period earlier this evening (names/zones censored as a courtesy).
[Zone] ***@***: NAME CENSORED you think your hot b**h but your really not
[Zone] ***@***: I just dont wanna be trolled for the entire day by bop scratches
[Zone] ***@***: lol, you're a big man huh?
I have had similar experiences in PUG queue matches. It may only be a small minority that trash talks, but it spoils it for everyone, especially when it is from a player against which you realistically never stood much of a chance against (due to above issues). I come onto STO to have fun, not to be subject to abuse or hear childish insults thrown at others.
Lack of Incentives/Rewards:
KDF clearly have a very good reason to PVP. In addition to the repeatables and dailies, they also get bonus dil for kills, dying, etc. Feds don't.
I'm not saying the KDF should lose one of the few unique bonuses they still have. I'm just pointing out that there is not much to incentivise me to put up with all the above. The negatives outweigh the positives.
Thank you for your detailed and straightforward input. You present some very reasonable arguments and positions. Outside of Ker'rat - which is a separate issue that has lots of problems - is there anything that you could think of to improve - make you want to do instanced PvP?(capture and hold/Arena)
What % of Feds PvP on a regular basis? What percent PvP ever?
Feds out number KDF at least 4 to 1 in the game - but in the PvP Q's - for Fed vs KDF it is usually 1 fed waiting and 5 KDF waiting.
So if you are a Fed why don't you come out and play with the KDF?
Have you ever joined Instanced PvP(the Q's - vs Ker'rat)?
Have you given up PvP?
You don't like PvP?
Other reasons?
Also added any suggestion you might think that would get you interested - or to come back?
People log onto their KDF chars when they want to PvP. Simple as that. Same thing that happens in every single game that allows characters from multiple factions on the same server/shard. People PvP with characters from the faction that seems to have a slight edge.
The definition of a player as a "pure" fed or KDF player is absolute nonsense. I'd bet that 95% of players in this game are running both a Fed and a KDF char, especially those that started after the second char slot was restricted to KDF. So when you're So when you're queuing for PvP on KDf side, you can be sure that most people you end up teaming up with are "Feds" by your definition.
I play both sides and have no interest in PvP. I especially have little interest on Fed side, because I just don't find that being the target for a bunch of stealthed rogues, er, cloaked Klinks, is really that entertaining for any one but the stealthed rogues.
When LoR gets here then both sides can skulk around cloaked, hopefully never finding each other for hours at a time. That'll be fun.
Honestly, look at this thread. It's mostly a bunch of KDF players slapping each other on the back telling each other how brave and cool they are for killing people who aren't interested in PvP in the first place.
It's sad in a way that's obvious to every one but the people doing it.
If you tried kvk PvP you would know the cloak is not the uber weapon that it is made out to be. Nor will it change a bad player into a good player. Only a BoP has the battle cloak and that ship line pays for it in hull and shield integrity. Fed players would ba amazed at how fast it dies. It's weak even by escort standards. Besides, a fleet retro decloaking with 5 tac consoles hits as hard or harder than any KDF ship.
The problem is feds have to work together better. Thats the real game changer. Cloak is junk against a cross healing team. I tried PvP on fed side and got killed because half the team runs out to fight at full impulse, half huddles by the spawn for the first 5 minutes, rarely does a PUG stay together, and only one or two players are cross healing. So the result is KDF take every player down with focus fire one by one. If they just stayed near each other and cross heal it makes a huge difference. Even w/ cloak, average KDF players will cross heal when not flying BoPs Anyways, when good fed players PvP its usually a good match and they have rolled KDF groups plenty. Point is, the cloak is not the difference maker.
Comments
The first taste of PvP shouldn't be an open zone camp-fest. Not if you want to keep players interested in PvP.
I don't think it's so much that as that FvK is full of a lot of BS; Siphon Drones, Interceptors, Acetons, Leech, etc.
There's also the fact that your average FeddyBear isn't as battle hardened from PvP as KDF players are. I've seen SO many Feds that not only do not use TacTeam, they don't even balance their shields. Heck, I even had an FvK match this morning where my Tac/Escort handily outhealed both Eng/Cruisers on my team... combined.
This is definitely 1 of the issues.
Fed side you start out from k-7 around lvl 6 into Ker'rat and it is KDF free until lvl 22 or so.
Then it becomes open PvP when they have been playing it for 15 levels as PvE ONLY
This is a bad set-up.
And no I said 1 of 2 things - make it PvP only - lots of other farming places now. Or neutral cease-fire zone.
It should be 1 or the other PvPvE just does not work well in STO.
Farmers are pissed - PvPers are pissed because the zone keeps resetting - everyone resets at the same location - zone is bugged half the time with Borg warping all over the map.
It need as big overhaul.
You mean rommie full right? Or at least lvl 10+
How many are going to be rolling a new KDF toon anytime soon - like none.
You fly around looking for cloaked klingons... no one around... you then die instantly from cloaked klingon using the uncloak buff (why the hell is there an uncloaking buff?), repeat till match over... its not fun to pvp fed vs klink. so go away.
I'd imagine most KDF players will make a new KDF character to play through the Tutorial, if not all the new early content.
Well that would make it better for the new fed players - lvl 6+ full of experience - battlehardened KDF PvPers
yeah that will be good for getting new Fed players into PvP
I don't know what the fix is, but people saying you have to have elite gear or intimate knowledge of every skill is wrong. You need a basic understanding, which can easily be obtained by asking questions at the PvP forums here. It's just sad to see the general attitude towards PvP and how people give up on it so easily when it has the potential to be the best part of this game.
@DevolvedOne
Subscribed For: 4 years 5 months 20 days at 26.10.2014
- Spawn camping (that BOTH certain Feds and KDF are guilty of)
- Certain players hounding me throughout the map, determined to take me out.
- Taking on a dedicated PvP build packed with z store toys and clearly superior to my own ship
- Death by BoP alpha strike
- Death by even worse Jemmie Bug alpha strike
- Getting ganked 5 v 1
- Klinks taking me out while I'm tractored by a tac and getting overrun by Borg
- The quite colourful language that could occur in zone chat if someone is quite, quite upset.
Knowing all this, I still go to Ker'rat because I have a laugh. It's fun to get out of the situations listed above and it's fun to dish out some of my own punishment on the klinks responsible. It's because of these 'problems' I turn up in the first place, it's what makes the place exciting.
I usually experience an aft barrage (Can't keep them away from my aft end) that ends after the BoP in question eats half a dozen Plasma meatballs and Battle Cloaks to run away (boldly like a warrior little girl)
Then 2 or 3 Sci BoP hits me with subneucleonic cheat, a few sensor scrambles, disables all my systems with there selective beam spells and then tractor beams me to be sure.
That's some good fun there.
There shouldn't be mages in STO just because Cryptic had to follow a tired old MMO trope.
How to improve STO:
Step 1) Remove Mage Class.
Oh yea, another thing that happens is viral matrix x 10... and the klinks get it first cause well they hit you with it when they uncloak.
Step 2) Remove Monster Factions.
Several weeks ago I PvPd twice in a row!
I was drunk & when the mates invited me I thought it would be an STF.
But in bouth cases the enemy where other federation players ships.
The uniqueness in KDF PVP is proficiency in PVP.
You should try it sometime instead of the Self-Defeatist Mentality alot of you Starfleet adopt.
The ships for the Federation are not the problem. Their ship lineup offers a very diverse group to choose from and are capable in the task. Escorts, Cruisers, Sci Vessels, there's great options in each.
What the REAL key deciding factor for the KDF in PVP, as I mentioned is proficiency. Proficiency on average for the KDF player population as a whole. Far more KDF players in our small population PVP regularly. That alone means that even in a PUG on PUG match, most of the time I'd lay my confidence with the KDF PUG.
I'm not saying there aren't good Fed PVPers. They are out there and we do get good back and forth matches even on the instanced Arena & Cap/Hold ones. There are Fed fleets out there with a good rep for PVP. But out of this huge morass of Fed players, only very few are active and / or proficient in PVP.
When you start out in PVP, expect to get wiped out quickly. The key thing to do if you want to get better is:
1. Learn the ins and out of STO's gameplay. The more you dig into ship abilities, stats, BOFF skills, etc., you start learning how inefficient for combat your build is. Once you get a better feel, you zoom off to...
2. Refine your Ship & BOFF layout. Build these layouts to a suitable style for your ship and playstyle.
3. Fight in PVP: Test out your adjustments, refine your reactions to use skills at the proper time. Watch your opponents and learn to look for strengths and weaknesses. Reacting to player actions in a PVP match is faster than PVE. Gets very crazy sometimes. And expect to get blown up sometime, or alot
4. Remember: Support your teammates. Cross team support, whether you're attacking whoever is attacking a teammate, or sending help via Attack Pattern Delta, Transfer Shield Strength, Eng/Tac/Sci Team, Extend Shields, etc., are the backbone of successful team. Regardless of what ships, captain type, weapons, gear, or even skill level on a team, if there is no teamwork, winning becomes more difficult, and the team with actual teamwork will roll the other. When I PVP as a Fed, crossteam support is a fundamental problem on average. When I PVP as KDF, crossteam support is likely to be found.
5. Lone members are easy prey. Strength is found with your allies, most especially so when you're new to PVP.
6. Resume at Step 1.
PVP for me is far more enticing because a well captained opposing ship / team is far more capable and dangerous than anything PVE offers. The only challenge PVE brings is cheap one-shotting, nothing else. In addition, due to the very nature of PVP requiring you to really learn the ins and outs of the game, and constantly adjusting your build, your character and ship will be very fine tuned to whatever PVE dares to throw at you. You'll learn to make more with less due to the forced efficiency of PVP.
Remember, if you start off in PVP, prepare to get humbled a bit with some confounding, quick deaths. Keep at it and learn the game more.
You can get away with practically anything in PVE. But not in PVP.
You are complaining about PVPers looking for PVP in a PVP zone, which Kerrat is. I know all you'd like nothing more than to farm in peace in a PVP zone and reap the rewards.
'Nuff said.
If I could simply disappear and run away to heal in my Fed ships I'd PvP more.
The Kumari gives Feds some idea of what BoPs have had for maneuverability all along.
AND I do have a Klingon General in a BoP, I know how "unique" Klingon ships are so no snowing me, I've been there, It got boring fast.
How To Improve STO:
Step 3) Remove PvP.
My reasons? Put briefly, in my opinion:
Put together, these make PVP not much fun and therefore not worth my time - in my humble opinion.
Longer Version:
For those who want further explanation of why I hold these views. These are all in my opinion:
Steep Learning Curve:
I'm not going to go into this as has already been covered. The PVP game is dramatically different from PVP. To have any hope of being passable at PVP takes a lot of time, and many hard lessons. I'm here to have fun, why should I put up with all the things that I don't like (listed below)? Why should I put myself through multiple 15-0 matches against players who are vastly more skilled than I will ever be? Why should I bother?
My gripes with the Current PVP Model:
The game is beginning to suffer from power creep. It is too built around builds and boff powers, and not enough on manuevre and positioning in my view. You pretty much have to use keybinds and cycle/mash buttons continually to stand a chance.
Boff powers play far too big a role, and are too powerful when stacked. I strongly dislike this model. I've seen it lead to ridiculously powerful Alpha/spike damage, whilst I've seen other players never dropping below full shields and 99% hull, even when under heavy attack by multiple players.
Even if all the other players were appalling, and carrying Common Mk I items - in my view this shouldn't happen. No build/combination of skills/powers should be that decisive.
I dabbled in PVP a bit in the early game. The few times it was enjoyable was at the lower levels, when all the players were at the same skill/equipment level - where there were no boff powers to mash and gaping equipment/skill gaps.
Player Behavour:
I popped into Kerrat briefly earlier to see if anything had changed. Despite what some have said, from my own experiences, a significant chunk of zone chat is childish trash. Here's some highlights from a 5 minute period earlier this evening (names/zones censored as a courtesy).
[Zone] ***@***: NAME CENSORED you think your hot b**h but your really not
[Zone] ***@***: I just dont wanna be trolled for the entire day by bop scratches
[Zone] ***@***: yer all a bunch of whiney TRIBBLE
[Zone] ***@***: LOL wana 1v1 u r****d?
[Zone] ***@***: i know u aint talking to me dog-child
[Zone] ***@***: brb, refreshing my tampon
[Zone] ***@***: t**t
[Zone] ***:***: god you suck donkeys balls
[Zone] ***:***: fed rhymes with dead
[Zone] ***@***: more lil TRIBBLE
[Zone] ***@***: hahaha you suck
[Zone] ***@***: lol, you're a big man huh?
I have had similar experiences in PUG queue matches. It may only be a small minority that trash talks, but it spoils it for everyone, especially when it is from a player against which you realistically never stood much of a chance against (due to above issues). I come onto STO to have fun, not to be subject to abuse or hear childish insults thrown at others.
Lack of Incentives/Rewards:
KDF clearly have a very good reason to PVP. In addition to the repeatables and dailies, they also get bonus dil for kills, dying, etc. Feds don't.
I'm not saying the KDF should lose one of the few unique bonuses they still have. I'm just pointing out that there is not much to incentivise me to put up with all the above. The negatives outweigh the positives.
This is hillarious!
Sure, why bother figuring out how to cope with the game's challenges when you can be on Cryptic's case long enough to annoy them into removing any little obstacle.
Let them just make PvE environments where we pick flowers on green meadows and rainbows that give dil. pop out of the ground and the sun shines oh so bright! :P
...We're halfway there with Eppoh tagging...I almost feel ashamed my proud warriors are reduced to tagging space bunnies for marks...
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Sort of look at pvp as geared out people who have nothing left to do and I feel they should give me paycheck if I have to be people's gameplay.
In the end I am grinding for gear and it's just less painful and faster on stf is all.
Sounds like "Carrot."
As in "on a stick" to get fresh meat in for the rabid PvP players.
Thank you for your detailed and straightforward input. You present some very reasonable arguments and positions. Outside of Ker'rat - which is a separate issue that has lots of problems - is there anything that you could think of to improve - make you want to do instanced PvP?(capture and hold/Arena)
People log onto their KDF chars when they want to PvP. Simple as that. Same thing that happens in every single game that allows characters from multiple factions on the same server/shard. People PvP with characters from the faction that seems to have a slight edge.
The definition of a player as a "pure" fed or KDF player is absolute nonsense. I'd bet that 95% of players in this game are running both a Fed and a KDF char, especially those that started after the second char slot was restricted to KDF. So when you're So when you're queuing for PvP on KDf side, you can be sure that most people you end up teaming up with are "Feds" by your definition.
If you tried kvk PvP you would know the cloak is not the uber weapon that it is made out to be. Nor will it change a bad player into a good player. Only a BoP has the battle cloak and that ship line pays for it in hull and shield integrity. Fed players would ba amazed at how fast it dies. It's weak even by escort standards. Besides, a fleet retro decloaking with 5 tac consoles hits as hard or harder than any KDF ship.
The problem is feds have to work together better. Thats the real game changer. Cloak is junk against a cross healing team. I tried PvP on fed side and got killed because half the team runs out to fight at full impulse, half huddles by the spawn for the first 5 minutes, rarely does a PUG stay together, and only one or two players are cross healing. So the result is KDF take every player down with focus fire one by one. If they just stayed near each other and cross heal it makes a huge difference. Even w/ cloak, average KDF players will cross heal when not flying BoPs