<<When did constrution start for the Enterprise-E?>>
We never addressed this point, but my working assumption was that the E-E
had her keel laid sometime during TNG's last season and was probably going
to be given another name. When the E-D was destroyed, that Sovereign-class
ship was nearing completion and was then christened Enterprise. This same
sort of thing happened during WWII. After the carrier Yorktown was sunk at
Midway, the US Navy decided to rename a carrier then under construction
in honor of the fallen ship.
theres a difference between constructing the ship, and the start of the project that engineered and designed the class. it does not take 20 years to assemble a galaxy class. the uss sovereign was proboly mostly constructed and was doing test flights by the time wolf 359 happens, but was far from ready to be commissioned and on active duty
Name them.
Ent-D Yamato Odyssey
During the Dominion War she had the best kill to death ratio. 0 deaths.
The Sovereign does not have 2 sets of shields that is fan fiction/speculation.
No she wasn't. Find me a canon source that says she was made to fight the Borg.
And no, her shots didn't. The FLEET that she was a part of could have done that without her being there so her contribution is a non factor.
24 High Power Phaser Banks
6 Quantum Tubes
(Since people here seem to think more automatically equals better/more powerful. Perhaps these numbers will "show" just how undergunned the Sovereign was to the Son'a Battleships.)
Isolytic weapons.
Actually it is very surprising that she ran out of ammo and power that quickly.
For a ship that was supposedly "made to fight the Borg" wouldn't you want a ship that could last longer than say... 2 or 3 minutes in a straight up fight?
Or have enough torpedo ammunition to be a threat past 45 some odd torps?
Even when the Scimitar wasn't cloaked the Ent E couldn't do anything to it.
And I'm saying that people have let the shiny factor get into their eyes to much.
The ship is impressive, but she is not the Battleship that the Galaxy class is.
Check out her performance in comparison to other ships shown on-screen and using that information you will see that she is out performed in the combat department by the Galaxy.
Note I said original Galaxys. the original set inculed 6 gal hulls 3 comissioned. Galaxy, Yamato, E-D. Some say there was also Columbia and it was destroyed due to an engine flaw but i'll skip that one for now.
Yamato was first to go due to Iconian program. Oydessey is comissoned to replace her and being one of the spare hulls could be quickly finished and they tried a new bridge layout with her. She fought the dominion and considering she had no sheilds did well but a single bug ship got through her defenses and blew. Months later E-D goes down to a 20 year old BOP of a retired class. Again no sheilds and took some beating but the Duras sister had good aim, most of the shots on the engineering section and even a scraped a nacelle. do to plot riker doesn't unleash hell on the bop but in the end she is gone. So in about a decade all but the Galaxy and 2 spare hulls are destroyed. Starfleet had to rethink the class. the first answer was the Venture. Likely one of the other spare hulls but the added phaser strips to add defe nse among other not known changes but with war coming they couldn't do it to all the Galaxys. they need them out now. so we get the DW. A bare bones battle capable Galaxy with minor tech improve ments. Some hint at a renforced neck. But after the DW this ships were probably sent back to spacedock for final completetion and will likely be upgraded to Venture specs.
In the end while the Galaxy can be refitted for battle she was designed as an exploreer first. Sov was designed as a warships first but given enough to also do thisngs the Galaxy can do. Sov and Gal are oppisite sides of the same coin. and note Nemisis ammo problem was plot driven. Also note the FC fleet in FC l;asted much longer than Hansons fleet in Best of both worlds. the major difference was ship type.
359 the bulk of the fleet would havge been 23rd centruy classes with tech refits like Sratoga and Hansons flagships. we did have a handful of Ambassador and gal tech era ships but out of a fleet of 40 they were likely 10. and they only lasted minutes
FC. The bulk of these ships were produced in the last couple of years so the latest in fed tech with a handful of older ships like a Miranda. and they lasted hours for E-E to get there..
Dw was not really a planned war so Starfleet was not fully ready and early losses dictaded have older ships just so they have numbers. and with hundreds of Excels and Miranda's they would make up the bulk of the fleets. I would not be surprised in those 2 classes alone made up 50 percent of the fleet. but there numbers had to have been hit hard after the war. so more FC era ships would be built to replace them. However some Lakota variant Excels could have been made.
Note I said original Galaxys. the original set inculed 6 gal hulls 3 comissioned. Galaxy, Yamato, E-D. Some say there was also Columbia and it was destroyed due to an engine flaw but i'll skip that one for now.
Yamato was first to go due to Iconian program. Oydessey is comissoned to replace her and being one of the spare hulls could be quickly finished and they tried a new bridge layout with her. She fought the dominion and considering she had no sheilds did well but a single bug ship got through her defenses and blew. Months later E-D goes down to a 20 year old BOP of a retired class. Again no sheilds and took some beating but the Duras sister had good aim, most of the shots on the engineering section and even a scraped a nacelle. do to plot riker doesn't unleash hell on the bop but in the end she is gone. So in about a decade all but the Galaxy and 2 spare hulls are destroyed. Starfleet had to rethink the class. the first answer was the Venture. Likely one of the other spare hulls but the added phaser strips to add defe nse among other not known changes but with war coming they couldn't do it to all the Galaxys. they need them out now. so we get the DW. A bare bones battle capable Galaxy with minor tech improve ments. Some hint at a renforced neck. But after the DW this ships were probably sent back to spacedock for final completetion and will likely be upgraded to Venture specs.
In the end while the Galaxy can be refitted for battle she was designed as an exploreer first. Sov was designed as a warships first but given enough to also do thisngs the Galaxy can do. Sov and Gal are oppisite sides of the same coin. and note Nemisis ammo problem was plot driven. Also note the FC fleet in FC l;asted much longer than Hansons fleet in Best of both worlds. the major difference was ship type.
359 the bulk of the fleet would havge been 23rd centruy classes with tech refits like Sratoga and Hansons flagships. we did have a handful of Ambassador and gal tech era ships but out of a fleet of 40 they were likely 10. and they only lasted minutes
FC. The bulk of these ships were produced in the last couple of years so the latest in fed tech with a handful of older ships like a Miranda. and they lasted hours for E-E to get there..
Dw was not really a planned war so Starfleet was not fully ready and early losses dictaded have older ships just so they have numbers. and with hundreds of Excels and Miranda's they would make up the bulk of the fleets. I would not be surprised in those 2 classes alone made up 50 percent of the fleet. but there numbers had to have been hit hard after the war. so more FC era ships would be built to replace them. However some Lakota variant Excels could have been made.
there was 6 total chassis made wile the uss galaxy was finishing its final trials, they only intended to fully build the first 3, and save the rest for later, for any number of reasons. if the yamato blew up because of a serious flaw, they would be pretty glad they held off building a bunch of biggest ever flawed ships.
my guess is that after the D first encountered the borg, the galaxy class went into MASS production. if they started much later then that, it would be hard to explain the 10 or 20 you can see at a time there in DS9. by the dominion war there was proboly 30 to 50 of them, maybe those last 20 were the striped down shells with nothing but what it needed to serve as a battleship. the rest that were already built, highly likely not to have been setup like the peace time enterprise D, and proboly striped of most none essentials too, and up armored on the neck and engineering hull.
70% of a galaxy class starship's interior space is modular, and hot swappable. its more customizable then the ships in sto! the galaxy was not designed to be an explorer to the exclusion of other things, the enterprise D was configured to be overwhelmingly an explorer, thats all. depending on how that interior space is used, it can be a full on battleship, or a flying research facility/city. thanks to the ingenious phaser array, laying a hugely powerful gun across a large amount of the surface and taking minimal interior space, the ship can have hugely powerful guns without taking up a ton of modular interior space.
there really isnt this 'venture refit' that galaxy physical model was only shown with those extra arrays because undoing the galaxy X bastardization wasn't so easy. you see the venture later without them, with the cgi switch, its basically retconed. those extra arrays are useless anyway. anything those small arrays could hit, one of the 2 huge main arrays could as well. and there was the other secondary hull arrays covering those fireing arcs too. totally useless additions best forgotten.
there was 6 total chassis made wile the uss galaxy was finishing its final trials, they only intended to fully build the first 3, and save the rest for later, for any number of reasons. if the yamato blew up because of a serious flaw, they would be pretty glad they held off building a bunch of biggest ever flawed ships.
my guess is that after the D first encountered the borg, the galaxy class went into MASS production. if they started much later then that, it would be hard to explain the 10 or 20 you can see at a time there in DS9. by the dominion war there was proboly 30 to 50 of them, maybe those last 20 were the striped down shells with nothing but what it needed to serve as a battleship. the rest that were already built, highly likely not to have been setup like the peace time enterprise D, and proboly striped of most none essentials too, and up armored on the neck and engineering hull.
70% of a galaxy class starship's interior space is modular, and hot swappable. its more customizable then the ships in sto! the galaxy was not designed to be an explorer to the exclusion of other things, the enterprise D was configured to be overwhelmingly an explorer, thats all. depending on how that interior space is used, it can be a full on battleship, or a flying research facility/city. thanks to the ingenious phaser array, laying a hugely powerful gun across a large amount of the surface and taking minimal interior space, the ship can have hugely powerful guns without taking up a ton of modular interior space.
there really isnt this 'venture refit' that galaxy physical model was only shown with those extra arrays because undoing the galaxy X bastardization wasn't so easy. you see the venture later without them, with the cgi switch, its basically retconed. those extra arrays are useless anyway. anything those small arrays could hit, one of the 2 huge main arrays could as well. and there was the other secondary hull arrays covering those fireing arcs too. totally useless additions best forgotten.
I say about 20 Galaxys in total during DW. And show me a picture of the Venture without the strips.
I say about 20 Galaxys in total during DW. And show me a picture of the Venture without the strips.
Which would translate into the Galaxy is capable of doing multi-roles. So why not make it in the same respect as the Vesta... a Multi-Mission Cruiser! The Odyssey should not be the three pack at all, Cryptic would have sold it better if it had been the Galaxy that was getting the glamour treatment.
Note I said original Galaxys. the original set inculed 6 gal hulls 3 comissioned. Galaxy, Yamato, E-D. Some say there was also Columbia and it was destroyed due to an engine flaw but i'll skip that one for now.
It was 12 ships.
6 completed 6 broken down and put into storage.
In the end while the Galaxy can be refitted for battle she was designed as an exploreer first. Sov was designed as a warships first but given enough to also do thisngs the Galaxy can do. Sov and Gal are oppisite sides of the same coin. and note Nemisis ammo problem was plot driven. Also note the FC fleet in FC l;asted much longer than Hansons fleet in Best of both worlds. the major difference was ship type.
Pure speculation on the Sovereign being designed as a warship or even being designed more for battle than exploration/peace. That is purely fan fiction.
There is nothing out there backed by canon that says the Sovereign was designed specifically for the Borg, with the Borg in mind, for combat over exploration or anything of the sort.
If you are going to claim that the ammo problem in Nemesis is plot driven then I can claim the same for the Enterprise D. The show was supposed to see its destruction, it was stupidity that claimed the BoP as the plot element to do so. Openly admitted even. Riker's total lack of anything in retaliation or self defense, even going to so far as to openly expose the most vulnerable part of the ship to the enemy...
I agree with the FC Fleet being able to last longer due to it being made up of newer ships.
But we also don't know how far out they actually engaged the Borg Cube or how large the Fleet was or how many losses they ended up taking.
An argument can certainly be made out of making the Amby, Galaxy, and even a theoretical Fleet Exeter all skins for the AC line of ships.
It'd make everyone happier and it would serve to make up for the design meta moving away from what was planned back in pre launch and even pre F2p. Just make it so that to get the extra skins you have to own the retrofit version of the ship whose skin you wanted to have on your AC. ANd just like that, problem solved.
Useless uniqueness is useless.
Its one thing to move the skin type to a different type of ship, another to want to ramp up one class (Galaxy) because other ships can do something that they cannot. If they made it available as a skin type for other ships that'd be fine. I would argue against it being the same as the Sovy and other ships, the maneuverability should be worse than the small cruisers is.
Is it not those exact same 3 movies that have you and others saying that the Sovereign is the better ship?
because in every instance of ship switching the crew went to an either an equal or better ship
TOS ENT to TMP ENT = Better ship
TMP ENT to ENT-A = Equal ship
ENT-A to ENT-B = Better ship
ENT-B to ENT-C = Better ship
ENT-C to ENT-D = Better ship
If this is true then why isn't it that the E is better or equal to the D????
I dont think Picard would accept a ship that was weaker or not as powerful as the previous ship. Imagine if in this game you make lvl 30 and your only choice is a ship weaker than the one you had?
Geordi mentions that the E is the most advanced ship in the fleet. Is he only talking about the warp core or the transporters?
Don't they say the same thing about the D in TNG? Why is it if they say the D is the most advanced ship in the fleet at that time we all admit its the best ship but when they say it about the E it has to be denied?
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
there was 6 total chassis made wile the uss galaxy was finishing its final trials, they only intended to fully build the first 3, and save the rest for later, for any number of reasons. if the yamato blew up because of a serious flaw, they would be pretty glad they held off building a bunch of biggest ever flawed ships.
my guess is that after the D first encountered the borg, the galaxy class went into MASS production. if they started much later then that, it would be hard to explain the 10 or 20 you can see at a time there in DS9. by the dominion war there was proboly 30 to 50 of them, maybe those last 20 were the striped down shells with nothing but what it needed to serve as a battleship. the rest that were already built, highly likely not to have been setup like the peace time enterprise D, and proboly striped of most none essentials too, and up armored on the neck and engineering hull.
You seem to like to throw the term "battleship" around easily around the Galaxy class. It was never a battleship, nor intended to be one. Battleships have one job, to blow up other ships, buildings and people. Even with "modular designs" the ship doesn't fit it, especially with a saucer section that is designed to separate and leave because it isn't tactically necessary. At least the Prometheus sections are designed to stick around in a fight.
70% of a galaxy class starship's interior space is modular, and hot swappable. its more customizable then the ships in sto! the galaxy was not designed to be an explorer to the exclusion of other things, the enterprise D was configured to be overwhelmingly an explorer, thats all. depending on how that interior space is used, it can be a full on battleship, or a flying research facility/city. thanks to the ingenious phaser array, laying a hugely powerful gun across a large amount of the surface and taking minimal interior space, the ship can have hugely powerful guns without taking up a ton of modular interior space.
Is this the same phaser array that leaves the ship after saucer separation?
It was 12 ships.
6 completed 6 broken down and put into storage.
Pure speculation on the Sovereign being designed as a warship or even being designed more for battle than exploration/peace. That is purely fan fiction.
There is nothing out there backed by canon that says the Sovereign was designed specifically for the Borg, with the Borg in mind, for combat over exploration or anything of the sort.
If you are going to claim that the ammo problem in Nemesis is plot driven then I can claim the same for the Enterprise D. The show was supposed to see its destruction, it was stupidity that claimed the BoP as the plot element to do so. Openly admitted even. Riker's total lack of anything in retaliation or self defense, even going to so far as to openly expose the most vulnerable part of the ship to the enemy...
I agree with the FC Fleet being able to last longer due to it being made up of newer ships.
But we also don't know how far out they actually engaged the Borg Cube or how large the Fleet was or how many losses they ended up taking.
Do you have their names? Including Columbia i count 4 inital launched ships with 4 in storage. Odyessy and Venture were among the spare hulls.
Look at the history of Starfleet. TOS through TMp era the ships were evenly balanced between peace and war. TNG era. they were at peace with Klingons and Rommies and no one else could go toe toe with them in a extended war. Thus you see designs lean more to the peace side. Intrepid was that last of these ships. Fc era ships lean for war as the time showed it. Thus any FC era ships IS more tacically oriented but still useful in peace time. thus as i have said Gal and Sov are tow sides of the same coin.
You seem to like to throw the term "battleship" around easily around the Galaxy class. It was never a battleship, nor intended to be one. Battleships have one job, to blow up other ships, buildings and people. Even with "modular designs" the ship doesn't fit it, especially with a saucer section that is designed to separate and leave because it isn't tactically necessary. At least the Prometheus sections are designed to stick around in a fight.
more antifan fanon. battleships is the term that describes the largest and most heavily armed type of ship. im not sure what restrictive metric you judge the term by, but it fits that criteria. in yesterdays enterprise, you see a galaxy class set up to be a battleship, not an explorer. there is no exterior difference, it was designed to fill any role, to be configured for any role between science vessel and dedicated combat battleship.
Is this the same phaser array that leaves the ship after saucer separation?
it sure did separate when it went into battle a lot didn't it? oh wait it didn't, there was just that 1 time in season 1. and that wasnt to fight off a powerful foe, just one that was invisible and could attack at will with impunity. the civilians were safe from its harassment wile the star drive section, that by itself proboly had about the combat potential of an ambassador class, look the hits and dealt with the attacker. the saucer seperation was not something that improved combat ability. doesn't mater much in game, it turns better separated. theres is nothing in game that correctly represents large phaser arrays, so theres no disadvantage other then a bit less hitpoints. the beam arrays in game? accurate representation of the tiny aft arrays on the stardrive section, not the large arrays on large federation ships. the galaxy should be fireing a single BO 3 every 2 seconds from its forward arrays in game, that would be accurate
with how phaser arrays work, assuming they got most of their power from the warp core, the separated saucer would have the same potential firepower, just less rate of fire. each of the 200 emitters holds its own charge like a battery, and can contribute its energy to the fireing point. the more emitters involved in this, the more powerful the best shot can be. it would just be a question of how long it would take to charge all the emitters from just the impulse reactors.
because in every instance of ship switching the crew went to an either an equal or better ship
TOS ENT to TMP ENT = Better ship
TMP ENT to ENT-A = Equal ship
ENT-A to ENT-B = Better ship
ENT-B to ENT-C = Better ship
ENT-C to ENT-D = Better ship
If this is true then why isn't it that the E is better or equal to the D????
I dont think Picard would accept a ship that was weaker or not as powerful as the previous ship. Imagine if in this game you make lvl 30 and your only choice is a ship weaker than the one you had?
Geordi mentions that the E is the most advanced ship in the fleet. Is he only talking about the warp core or the transporters?
Don't they say the same thing about the D in TNG? Why is it if they say the D is the most advanced ship in the fleet at that time we all admit its the best ship but when they say it about the E it has to be denied?
Picard isn't "choosing" his Captaincy based on the power of the ship vs his last.
It is his duty, and that is that. If his duty to the Fleet says that he is Captain of a Garbage Scow, than he is Captain of a Garbage Scow until told otherwise.
Advanced does not mean more powerful.
Look at the Combustion engine over the last decade. Several "advances" have been made to allow them to run more efficiently. Despite being more efficient, many of them are not more "powerful" than they have ever been, or in some cases even been in recent years.
Advanced denotes more in the way the development of the tech has been carried out and implemented rather than in a way to exhibit strength.
You seem to like to throw the term "battleship" around easily around the Galaxy class. It was never a battleship, nor intended to be one. Battleships have one job, to blow up other ships, buildings and people. Even with "modular designs" the ship doesn't fit it, especially with a saucer section that is designed to separate and leave because it isn't tactically necessary. At least the Prometheus sections are designed to stick around in a fight.
Is this the same phaser array that leaves the ship after saucer separation?
The term battleship has only been used in conjunction with the Galaxy class.
In 3 separate episodes the ship has been referred to as a Battleship.
Something that no other ship has been labeled as in Star Fleet.
Do you have their names? Including Columbia i count 4 inital launched ships with 4 in storage. Odyessy and Venture were among the spare hulls.
Look at the history of Starfleet. TOS through TMp era the ships were evenly balanced between peace and war. TNG era. they were at peace with Klingons and Rommies and no one else could go toe toe with them in a extended war. Thus you see designs lean more to the peace side. Intrepid was that last of these ships. Fc era ships lean for war as the time showed it. Thus any FC era ships IS more tacically oriented but still useful in peace time. thus as i have said Gal and Sov are tow sides of the same coin.
There were 6 according to Roddenberry.
USS Galaxy
USS Enterprise D
USS Yamato
USS Odyssey
USS Venture
USS Challenger (Appears in Voyager at the end)
These 6 are believed to be the original 6.
Several other ships are noted on screen that also belong to the Galaxy Class.
During the TNG era they were not at peace.
There were still tensions with the Klingons. War had just concluded with the Cardassians.
Conflicts with the Tzenthki, Tholians and another race whoms name escapes me at the moment, had all been in recent conflict with the Federation. So the era in which the Galaxy entered and was constructed during was a fairly turbulent one.
Additionally the Galaxy has been mentioned as being a mobile starbase for the purposes of showing the flag and defending against encroachment by hostile powers.
It was also stated that Commodore Santin was afraid that fielding a ship with such destructive capabilities might serve as a provocation to the Federation's enemies. (FASA RPG module: Star Trek: The Next Generation Officer's Manual)
Not true since in the episode "Defiant", Gul Dukat describes the Defiant as "one of the most heavily armed warships in the Quadrant
why is it when the 'D' is described as the most advance ship it is better than every thing but when the same thing is said about the 'E' we have to make excuses for it
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Picard isn't "choosing" his Captaincy based on the power of the ship vs his last.
It is his duty, and that is that. If his duty to the Fleet says that he is Captain of a Garbage Scow, than he is Captain of a Garbage Scow until told otherwise.
Advanced does not mean more powerful.
Look at the Combustion engine over the last decade. Several "advances" have been made to allow them to run more efficiently. Despite being more efficient, many of them are not more "powerful" than they have ever been, or in some cases even been in recent years.
Advanced denotes more in the way the development of the tech has been carried out and implemented rather than in a way to exhibit strength.
The term battleship has only been used in conjunction with the Galaxy class.
In 3 separate episodes the ship has been referred to as a Battleship.
Something that no other ship has been labeled as in Star Fleet.
There were 6 according to Roddenberry.
USS Galaxy
USS Enterprise D
USS Yamato
USS Odyssey
USS Venture
USS Challenger (Appears in Voyager at the end)
These 6 are believed to be the original 6.
Several other ships are noted on screen that also belong to the Galaxy Class.
During the TNG era they were not at peace.
There were still tensions with the Klingons. War had just concluded with the Cardassians.
Conflicts with the Tzenthki, Tholians and another race whoms name escapes me at the moment, had all been in recent conflict with the Federation. So the era in which the Galaxy entered and was constructed during was a fairly turbulent one.
Additionally the Galaxy has been mentioned as being a mobile starbase for the purposes of showing the flag and defending against encroachment by hostile powers.
It was also stated that Commodore Santin was afraid that fielding a ship with such destructive capabilities might serve as a provocation to the Federation's enemies. (FASA RPG module: Star Trek: The Next Generation Officer's Manual)
Odyssey, Venture, and Challenger I'll grant be of the originaly group but originally as the spare hulls. And when the Yamato, and ED went down Odyssey, and Likly Challenger launched to replace them. Then Oydssey went down and we have Venture. So in the end still total of 6 hulls for first run and as time changed Starfleet started mass production and we get the DW era of Galaxys.
Um by the time the Galaxy was launch they were in a strong Alliance with the Klingons. They had peace and haven't heard from the Rommies in decades. and the cardassian war like most of the others mention were more skirmish than actual war. the the carddie war likely as long as the first gulf war. and still could have been over before Galaxy launch. we don't know when the carddie war was. O'brian could have just came out of the academy when it happened. And Captain maxwell was old enough to be a veteran captain at the time. It was the mentality of the fleet that betrayed the Galaxy. They had no major threat at the time. Only after the Galaxy was launch did they encounter the borg and the dominion. THe early TNG era was essentually the Carter years for the fleet and the 2370's was the Regan years.
(...) O'brian could have just came out of the academy when it happened. (...)
O'Brien never went to Starfleet Academy since he's an non-commissioned officer. Won't argue with everything else, just wanted to mention that
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
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"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Not true since in the episode "Defiant", Gul Dukat describes the Defiant as "one of the most heavily armed warships in the Quadrant
why is it when the 'D' is described as the most advance ship it is better than every thing but when the same thing is said about the 'E' we have to make excuses for it
you have to look at point of view. the Cardassian Union at the time was run by a military regieme. And Defiant is a compact Warships so in there view she is better than a Galaxy. The Galaxy however can do more things. The Defiant class is either defending a station like the Defiant does, or escorts convoys when not at war. The Galaxy however can survey nebula's, host conferences and if the need arises be a powerhouse. She a multi function vessel. and despite her inital flaws among the most powerful ships in the fleet.
Oh and to look at the Sovereign is again figure out the mentallity of Starfleet at the time. They have faced the borg. having a growing problem with the dominion, relations with the Klingons strained. And sadly The Galaxy is not having a good track record at the time. Common sense says the ships design during this time will have a leaning to combat. Now like with most fleet ships the sov has arole during peace for the fed believe peace will eventually come and they can resume their prefered role. And tech increase would have also helped out. Now many believe the Galaxys main phaser arrays are more powerful than a Sovies. there is a 15 year difference between them and with Voyager we saw bio neural gelpacks. Then you have the borg research going on. those could have lead to more efficient arrays so while not as big as those main arrays on a galaxy they could have just the same amount of punch. AND Sovie was equipped with qutaums. Galaxy did not.
Now the Galaxy can be refited with that new tech and liukely the DWs had some but again this is why overall she and the sovie are about equal. But their leans make the difference. Galaxy Explorer first, Sovereign combat first. BOTH are capable of doing eachothers roles but each has the edge in their prefered area.
O'Brien never went to Starfleet Academy since he's an non-commissioned officer. Won't argue with everything else, just wanted to mention that
alright still could have been at the begining of his career in the fleet. there is so much gray area in that point of time. I say that the conflict might have lasted a year or 2 before peace. otherwise Explain Wounded or Paradise lost.
you have to look at point of view. the Cardassian Union at the time was run by a military regieme. And Defiant is a compact Warships so in there view she is better than a Galaxy. The Galaxy however can do more things. The Defiant class is either defending a station like the Defiant does, or escorts convoys when not at war. The Galaxy however can survey nebula's, host conferences and if the need arises be a powerhouse. She a multi function vessel. and despite her inital flaws among the most powerful ships in the fleet.
Sorry if i wasnt making myself clear. I wasn't saying the Defiant was a better ship than the Galaxy. I brought up the quote because someone said that Galaxy and only the Galaxy was refered to as a warship.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
alright still could have been at the begining of his career in the fleet. there is so much gray area in that point of time. I say that the conflict might have lasted a year or 2 before peace. otherwise Explain Wounded or Paradise lost.
You are quite right, according to MA O'Brien enlisted in 2346, the Fed-Card war officially lasted three years (2347-2350) while border skirmishes went on until the 60's.
EDIT: The galaxy should get a built-in BO ability to reflect the Mk XII arrays or at least get an overall power boost. She wouldn't become the OP powerhouse everyone seems to be afraid of this way
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Not true since in the episode "Defiant", Gul Dukat describes the Defiant as "one of the most heavily armed warships in the Quadrant
why is it when the 'D' is described as the most advance ship it is better than every thing but when the same thing is said about the 'E' we have to make excuses for it
I would say the Intrepid is more advanced than the Galaxy.That goes for te Prometheus as well.
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I would say the Intrepid is more advanced than the Galaxy.That goes for te Prometheus as well.
Even no there is no actual onscreen evidence to support that assessment. Of course, Voyager had plot armour and numerous Borg enhancements, however, it was repeatedly shown to be outmatched when faced with larger vessels then itself or a multitude of vessels. E.G. Kazon Carriers and Quarren ships from "Workforce".
Lets not forget that in "Prophecy", Voyager was attacked and nearly beaten by a D7 Class Klingon Warship. If the Intrepid would have been designed for war, she would have carried Quantum Torpedoes but no, she had 38 Class VI Photons instead. For some unknown reason, she had just two Tri-Colbalt Devices and its not clear what they were doing with them because as Seven of Nine asks Tuvok in "The Voyager Conspiracy", "Are these weapons typically carried on a Federation Starship?" to which Tuvok replies "No".
I think the Intrepid was mainly designed to be an interceptor, to replace the role of the aging Miranda as a cheap and efficent alternate to the massive Galaxy class. The ONLY direct comparison comes from the episode "Relativity".
Admiral Patterson says to Janeway. "Voyager may not be as big as a Galaxy Class ship but she's quick and smart... like her Captain".
Cryptic really dropped the ball on the Intrepid's intended function... It should have been the fastest ship in the game because that's what it was designed to do... Hold warp 9.975 for longer then any other vessel AND have much more agility then some of the other ships. Yes, I do believe the Intrepid could out-turn a Defiant Class. It was NEVER stated that she was a Science Vessel of any description or the Equinox would have recognized that because THEY were a Science Vessel.
According to pure stats, Voyager should really benefit from Cryptic's Warp Cores the most... It was designed with the Tricyclic Input Manifold in mind as a vessel that could not only sustain a very fast warp factor in terms of other ships pre-transwarp but could also stay there for days, allowing for easier travel. I would have hated to see how Voyager would have got home if she had been an Oberth.
In Summery...
In Canon - Intrepid = Interceptor/Fast Patrol Craft
In Game (STO) - Intrepid = Science Vessel with no real specialization (Obsolete to the Vesta)
In Canon - Intrepid = Interceptor/Fast Patrol Craft
In Game (STO) - Intrepid = Science Vessel with no real specialization (Obsolete to the Vesta)
Two Words: WTF Cryptic?
I get you point, though in STO every ship becomes obsolete once the new store ship is released Even their mighty Odyssey class (which should serve as a successor to bear the name "Enterprise") is merely a footnote since the Vesta came out. Why? DHCs make everything else obsolete
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I get you point, though in STO every ship becomes obsolete once the new store ship is released Even their mighty Odyssey class (which should serve as a successor to bear the name "Enterprise") is merely a footnote since the Vesta came out. Why? DHCs make everything else obsolete
That is pretty much, I think we are skirting round the main issue too... but I was really tired of Cryptic getting ship classifications absolutely wrong and away from their intended function. Essentially they say its for "game balance" to have more Science Vessels and Escorts because there was only ONE Escort in Starfleet.
But where is the game balance now that's used in this argument
The Saber, Norway, Steamrunner and Akira were all cruisers did not carry canons of any kind. Infact, both the Akira and Steamrunner were designed more with torpedoes in mind. I agree with your assessment that DHC's kind ruin the point of this game and beam arrays have been underpowered for a long long time now.
Not true since in the episode "Defiant", Gul Dukat describes the Defiant as "one of the most heavily armed warships in the Quadrant
why is it when the 'D' is described as the most advance ship it is better than every thing but when the same thing is said about the 'E' we have to make excuses for it
This is how these Galaxy Fanboys "roll". When the ship performs badly, it's "The Writer's Fault", but when the ship performs ok, it apparently is no longer a TELEVISON SHOW with those SAME writers and instead becomes a "real life view into the future where ACTUAL events are occurring".
CBS/Paramount has LONG since decreed that the Ent-E will be portrayed as a SUPERIOR successor to the Ent-D, which is why there has NEVER EVER been a Star Trek game in which the Galaxy Class Vessel came even close in firepower to the Sovereign class vessels. It will NEVER happen. These Galaxy fanboys apparently lack the ability to understand and accept that the Galaxy class vessel is not as "iconic" to other Star Trek fans as it is to THEM. Their "logic" is truly all over them map, they want to criticize other ships in the game and yet bizarrely expect to gain sympathy from those same players. They whine for THREE YEARS without having ANY game plan other than the SAME whining that has gotten them ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE in the same THREE YEARS.
Actually, it's pushed their ship FARTHER behind the newer released ships. When even the newly released Risian Corvette (Yes, from the PLEASURE planet RISA) has a MUCH better tactical set-up than their "beloved" Galaxy class, it continues to show to EVERYONE what Cryptic/CBS REALLY thinks of your "space hotel".
Even thought it's clear to everyone but the Galaxy fanboys that Cryptic/CBS doesn't care or give ANY validity to your "arguments", you keep pursuing the same failed strategy YEAR AFTER YEAR, with no alternate plan and no timeline. So, as long as you keep up the same FAILED strategies year after year, don't be surprised when you get the same FAILED results.
This is how these Galaxy Fanboys "roll". When the ship performs badly, it's "The Writer's Fault", but when the ship performs ok, it apparently is no longer a TELEVISON SHOW with those SAME writers and instead becomes a "real life view into the future where ACTUAL events are occurring".
CBS/Paramount has LONG since decreed that the Ent-E will be portrayed as a SUPERIOR successor to the Ent-D, which is why there has NEVER EVER been a Star Trek game in which the Galaxy Class Vessel came even close in firepower to the Sovereign class vessels. It will NEVER happen. These Galaxy fanboys apparently lack the ability to understand and accept that the Galaxy class vessel is not as "iconic" to other Star Trek fans as it is to THEM. Their "logic" is truly all over them map, they want to criticize other ships in the game and yet bizarrely expect to gain sympathy from those same players. They whine for THREE YEARS without having ANY game plan other than the SAME whining that has gotten them ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE in the same THREE YEARS.
Actually, it's pushed their ship FARTHER behind the newer released ships. When even the newly released Risian Corvette (Yes, from the PLEASURE planet RISA) has a MUCH better tactical set-up than their "beloved" Galaxy class, it continues to show to EVERYONE what Cryptic/CBS REALLY thinks of your "space hotel".
Even thought it's clear to everyone but the Galaxy fanboys that Cryptic/CBS doesn't care or give ANY validity to your "arguments", you keep pursuing the same failed strategy YEAR AFTER YEAR, with no alternate plan and no timeline. So, as long as you keep up the same FAILED strategies year after year, don't be surprised when you get the same FAILED results.
Obvious troll is obvious... so just ignore this guy please. He has no idea of what he's talking about and can't be respectful. He probably suffers with the delusion that the JHAS should be the most powerful ship in the game.
Obvious troll is obvious... so just ignore this guy please. He has no idea of what he's talking about and can't be respectful. He probably suffers with the delusion that the JHAS should be the most powerful ship in the game.
It's interesting when people disagree with you Galaxy fanboys, then they become a "troll", and they you attack the person without having the guts to try to deconstruct their point(s), because clearly you can't. But let me ask you this: what has your "self affirmations" gotten you in the last THREE YEARS?
Oh, you can dismiss me and all others who disagree with you as "trolls", but at the end of the day, you are no closer to your "goals" than you were in June 2010. Your "space hotel" become more and more irrelevant when even a Risian ship can beat it's can in space battle.
So you can ignore me and others who disagree with you all you want, but ironically, it appears that Cryptic/CBS is also ignoring you Galaxy fanboys in the same manner. Maybe they think of you as "Galaxy class trolls"?
Comments
theres a difference between constructing the ship, and the start of the project that engineered and designed the class. it does not take 20 years to assemble a galaxy class. the uss sovereign was proboly mostly constructed and was doing test flights by the time wolf 359 happens, but was far from ready to be commissioned and on active duty
Note I said original Galaxys. the original set inculed 6 gal hulls 3 comissioned. Galaxy, Yamato, E-D. Some say there was also Columbia and it was destroyed due to an engine flaw but i'll skip that one for now.
Yamato was first to go due to Iconian program. Oydessey is comissoned to replace her and being one of the spare hulls could be quickly finished and they tried a new bridge layout with her. She fought the dominion and considering she had no sheilds did well but a single bug ship got through her defenses and blew. Months later E-D goes down to a 20 year old BOP of a retired class. Again no sheilds and took some beating but the Duras sister had good aim, most of the shots on the engineering section and even a scraped a nacelle. do to plot riker doesn't unleash hell on the bop but in the end she is gone. So in about a decade all but the Galaxy and 2 spare hulls are destroyed. Starfleet had to rethink the class. the first answer was the Venture. Likely one of the other spare hulls but the added phaser strips to add defe nse among other not known changes but with war coming they couldn't do it to all the Galaxys. they need them out now. so we get the DW. A bare bones battle capable Galaxy with minor tech improve ments. Some hint at a renforced neck. But after the DW this ships were probably sent back to spacedock for final completetion and will likely be upgraded to Venture specs.
In the end while the Galaxy can be refitted for battle she was designed as an exploreer first. Sov was designed as a warships first but given enough to also do thisngs the Galaxy can do. Sov and Gal are oppisite sides of the same coin. and note Nemisis ammo problem was plot driven. Also note the FC fleet in FC l;asted much longer than Hansons fleet in Best of both worlds. the major difference was ship type.
359 the bulk of the fleet would havge been 23rd centruy classes with tech refits like Sratoga and Hansons flagships. we did have a handful of Ambassador and gal tech era ships but out of a fleet of 40 they were likely 10. and they only lasted minutes
FC. The bulk of these ships were produced in the last couple of years so the latest in fed tech with a handful of older ships like a Miranda. and they lasted hours for E-E to get there..
Dw was not really a planned war so Starfleet was not fully ready and early losses dictaded have older ships just so they have numbers. and with hundreds of Excels and Miranda's they would make up the bulk of the fleets. I would not be surprised in those 2 classes alone made up 50 percent of the fleet. but there numbers had to have been hit hard after the war. so more FC era ships would be built to replace them. However some Lakota variant Excels could have been made.
there was 6 total chassis made wile the uss galaxy was finishing its final trials, they only intended to fully build the first 3, and save the rest for later, for any number of reasons. if the yamato blew up because of a serious flaw, they would be pretty glad they held off building a bunch of biggest ever flawed ships.
my guess is that after the D first encountered the borg, the galaxy class went into MASS production. if they started much later then that, it would be hard to explain the 10 or 20 you can see at a time there in DS9. by the dominion war there was proboly 30 to 50 of them, maybe those last 20 were the striped down shells with nothing but what it needed to serve as a battleship. the rest that were already built, highly likely not to have been setup like the peace time enterprise D, and proboly striped of most none essentials too, and up armored on the neck and engineering hull.
70% of a galaxy class starship's interior space is modular, and hot swappable. its more customizable then the ships in sto! the galaxy was not designed to be an explorer to the exclusion of other things, the enterprise D was configured to be overwhelmingly an explorer, thats all. depending on how that interior space is used, it can be a full on battleship, or a flying research facility/city. thanks to the ingenious phaser array, laying a hugely powerful gun across a large amount of the surface and taking minimal interior space, the ship can have hugely powerful guns without taking up a ton of modular interior space.
there really isnt this 'venture refit' that galaxy physical model was only shown with those extra arrays because undoing the galaxy X bastardization wasn't so easy. you see the venture later without them, with the cgi switch, its basically retconed. those extra arrays are useless anyway. anything those small arrays could hit, one of the 2 huge main arrays could as well. and there was the other secondary hull arrays covering those fireing arcs too. totally useless additions best forgotten.
I say about 20 Galaxys in total during DW. And show me a picture of the Venture without the strips.
Which would translate into the Galaxy is capable of doing multi-roles. So why not make it in the same respect as the Vesta... a Multi-Mission Cruiser! The Odyssey should not be the three pack at all, Cryptic would have sold it better if it had been the Galaxy that was getting the glamour treatment.
It was 12 ships.
6 completed 6 broken down and put into storage.
Pure speculation on the Sovereign being designed as a warship or even being designed more for battle than exploration/peace. That is purely fan fiction.
There is nothing out there backed by canon that says the Sovereign was designed specifically for the Borg, with the Borg in mind, for combat over exploration or anything of the sort.
If you are going to claim that the ammo problem in Nemesis is plot driven then I can claim the same for the Enterprise D. The show was supposed to see its destruction, it was stupidity that claimed the BoP as the plot element to do so. Openly admitted even. Riker's total lack of anything in retaliation or self defense, even going to so far as to openly expose the most vulnerable part of the ship to the enemy...
I agree with the FC Fleet being able to last longer due to it being made up of newer ships.
But we also don't know how far out they actually engaged the Borg Cube or how large the Fleet was or how many losses they ended up taking.
Is it not those exact same 3 movies that have you and others saying that the Sovereign is the better ship?
All other fleet cruisers > galaxy. Please fix devs?
/thread?
Its one thing to move the skin type to a different type of ship, another to want to ramp up one class (Galaxy) because other ships can do something that they cannot. If they made it available as a skin type for other ships that'd be fine. I would argue against it being the same as the Sovy and other ships, the maneuverability should be worse than the small cruisers is.
because in every instance of ship switching the crew went to an either an equal or better ship
TOS ENT to TMP ENT = Better ship
TMP ENT to ENT-A = Equal ship
ENT-A to ENT-B = Better ship
ENT-B to ENT-C = Better ship
ENT-C to ENT-D = Better ship
If this is true then why isn't it that the E is better or equal to the D????
I dont think Picard would accept a ship that was weaker or not as powerful as the previous ship. Imagine if in this game you make lvl 30 and your only choice is a ship weaker than the one you had?
Geordi mentions that the E is the most advanced ship in the fleet. Is he only talking about the warp core or the transporters?
Don't they say the same thing about the D in TNG? Why is it if they say the D is the most advanced ship in the fleet at that time we all admit its the best ship but when they say it about the E it has to be denied?
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
You seem to like to throw the term "battleship" around easily around the Galaxy class. It was never a battleship, nor intended to be one. Battleships have one job, to blow up other ships, buildings and people. Even with "modular designs" the ship doesn't fit it, especially with a saucer section that is designed to separate and leave because it isn't tactically necessary. At least the Prometheus sections are designed to stick around in a fight.
Is this the same phaser array that leaves the ship after saucer separation?
Do you have their names? Including Columbia i count 4 inital launched ships with 4 in storage. Odyessy and Venture were among the spare hulls.
Look at the history of Starfleet. TOS through TMp era the ships were evenly balanced between peace and war. TNG era. they were at peace with Klingons and Rommies and no one else could go toe toe with them in a extended war. Thus you see designs lean more to the peace side. Intrepid was that last of these ships. Fc era ships lean for war as the time showed it. Thus any FC era ships IS more tacically oriented but still useful in peace time. thus as i have said Gal and Sov are tow sides of the same coin.
Picard isn't "choosing" his Captaincy based on the power of the ship vs his last.
It is his duty, and that is that. If his duty to the Fleet says that he is Captain of a Garbage Scow, than he is Captain of a Garbage Scow until told otherwise.
Advanced does not mean more powerful.
Look at the Combustion engine over the last decade. Several "advances" have been made to allow them to run more efficiently. Despite being more efficient, many of them are not more "powerful" than they have ever been, or in some cases even been in recent years.
Advanced denotes more in the way the development of the tech has been carried out and implemented rather than in a way to exhibit strength.
The term battleship has only been used in conjunction with the Galaxy class.
In 3 separate episodes the ship has been referred to as a Battleship.
Something that no other ship has been labeled as in Star Fleet.
There were 6 according to Roddenberry.
USS Galaxy
USS Enterprise D
USS Yamato
USS Odyssey
USS Venture
USS Challenger (Appears in Voyager at the end)
These 6 are believed to be the original 6.
Several other ships are noted on screen that also belong to the Galaxy Class.
During the TNG era they were not at peace.
There were still tensions with the Klingons. War had just concluded with the Cardassians.
Conflicts with the Tzenthki, Tholians and another race whoms name escapes me at the moment, had all been in recent conflict with the Federation. So the era in which the Galaxy entered and was constructed during was a fairly turbulent one.
Additionally the Galaxy has been mentioned as being a mobile starbase for the purposes of showing the flag and defending against encroachment by hostile powers.
It was also stated that Commodore Santin was afraid that fielding a ship with such destructive capabilities might serve as a provocation to the Federation's enemies. (FASA RPG module: Star Trek: The Next Generation Officer's Manual)
why is it when the 'D' is described as the most advance ship it is better than every thing but when the same thing is said about the 'E' we have to make excuses for it
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Odyssey, Venture, and Challenger I'll grant be of the originaly group but originally as the spare hulls. And when the Yamato, and ED went down Odyssey, and Likly Challenger launched to replace them. Then Oydssey went down and we have Venture. So in the end still total of 6 hulls for first run and as time changed Starfleet started mass production and we get the DW era of Galaxys.
Um by the time the Galaxy was launch they were in a strong Alliance with the Klingons. They had peace and haven't heard from the Rommies in decades. and the cardassian war like most of the others mention were more skirmish than actual war. the the carddie war likely as long as the first gulf war. and still could have been over before Galaxy launch. we don't know when the carddie war was. O'brian could have just came out of the academy when it happened. And Captain maxwell was old enough to be a veteran captain at the time. It was the mentality of the fleet that betrayed the Galaxy. They had no major threat at the time. Only after the Galaxy was launch did they encounter the borg and the dominion. THe early TNG era was essentually the Carter years for the fleet and the 2370's was the Regan years.
O'Brien never went to Starfleet Academy since he's an non-commissioned officer. Won't argue with everything else, just wanted to mention that
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you have to look at point of view. the Cardassian Union at the time was run by a military regieme. And Defiant is a compact Warships so in there view she is better than a Galaxy. The Galaxy however can do more things. The Defiant class is either defending a station like the Defiant does, or escorts convoys when not at war. The Galaxy however can survey nebula's, host conferences and if the need arises be a powerhouse. She a multi function vessel. and despite her inital flaws among the most powerful ships in the fleet.
Oh and to look at the Sovereign is again figure out the mentallity of Starfleet at the time. They have faced the borg. having a growing problem with the dominion, relations with the Klingons strained. And sadly The Galaxy is not having a good track record at the time. Common sense says the ships design during this time will have a leaning to combat. Now like with most fleet ships the sov has arole during peace for the fed believe peace will eventually come and they can resume their prefered role. And tech increase would have also helped out. Now many believe the Galaxys main phaser arrays are more powerful than a Sovies. there is a 15 year difference between them and with Voyager we saw bio neural gelpacks. Then you have the borg research going on. those could have lead to more efficient arrays so while not as big as those main arrays on a galaxy they could have just the same amount of punch. AND Sovie was equipped with qutaums. Galaxy did not.
Now the Galaxy can be refited with that new tech and liukely the DWs had some but again this is why overall she and the sovie are about equal. But their leans make the difference. Galaxy Explorer first, Sovereign combat first. BOTH are capable of doing eachothers roles but each has the edge in their prefered area.
alright still could have been at the begining of his career in the fleet. there is so much gray area in that point of time. I say that the conflict might have lasted a year or 2 before peace. otherwise Explain Wounded or Paradise lost.
Sorry if i wasnt making myself clear. I wasn't saying the Defiant was a better ship than the Galaxy. I brought up the quote because someone said that Galaxy and only the Galaxy was refered to as a warship.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
You are quite right, according to MA O'Brien enlisted in 2346, the Fed-Card war officially lasted three years (2347-2350) while border skirmishes went on until the 60's.
EDIT: The galaxy should get a built-in BO ability to reflect the Mk XII arrays or at least get an overall power boost. She wouldn't become the OP powerhouse everyone seems to be afraid of this way
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I would say the Intrepid is more advanced than the Galaxy.That goes for te Prometheus as well.
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Even no there is no actual onscreen evidence to support that assessment. Of course, Voyager had plot armour and numerous Borg enhancements, however, it was repeatedly shown to be outmatched when faced with larger vessels then itself or a multitude of vessels. E.G. Kazon Carriers and Quarren ships from "Workforce".
Lets not forget that in "Prophecy", Voyager was attacked and nearly beaten by a D7 Class Klingon Warship. If the Intrepid would have been designed for war, she would have carried Quantum Torpedoes but no, she had 38 Class VI Photons instead. For some unknown reason, she had just two Tri-Colbalt Devices and its not clear what they were doing with them because as Seven of Nine asks Tuvok in "The Voyager Conspiracy", "Are these weapons typically carried on a Federation Starship?" to which Tuvok replies "No".
I think the Intrepid was mainly designed to be an interceptor, to replace the role of the aging Miranda as a cheap and efficent alternate to the massive Galaxy class. The ONLY direct comparison comes from the episode "Relativity".
Admiral Patterson says to Janeway. "Voyager may not be as big as a Galaxy Class ship but she's quick and smart... like her Captain".
Cryptic really dropped the ball on the Intrepid's intended function... It should have been the fastest ship in the game because that's what it was designed to do... Hold warp 9.975 for longer then any other vessel AND have much more agility then some of the other ships. Yes, I do believe the Intrepid could out-turn a Defiant Class. It was NEVER stated that she was a Science Vessel of any description or the Equinox would have recognized that because THEY were a Science Vessel.
According to pure stats, Voyager should really benefit from Cryptic's Warp Cores the most... It was designed with the Tricyclic Input Manifold in mind as a vessel that could not only sustain a very fast warp factor in terms of other ships pre-transwarp but could also stay there for days, allowing for easier travel. I would have hated to see how Voyager would have got home if she had been an Oberth.
In Summery...
In Canon - Intrepid = Interceptor/Fast Patrol Craft
In Game (STO) - Intrepid = Science Vessel with no real specialization (Obsolete to the Vesta)
Two Words: WTF Cryptic?
I get you point, though in STO every ship becomes obsolete once the new store ship is released
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That is pretty much, I think we are skirting round the main issue too... but I was really tired of Cryptic getting ship classifications absolutely wrong and away from their intended function. Essentially they say its for "game balance" to have more Science Vessels and Escorts because there was only ONE Escort in Starfleet.
But where is the game balance now that's used in this argument
The Saber, Norway, Steamrunner and Akira were all cruisers did not carry canons of any kind. Infact, both the Akira and Steamrunner were designed more with torpedoes in mind. I agree with your assessment that DHC's kind ruin the point of this game and beam arrays have been underpowered for a long long time now.
This is how these Galaxy Fanboys "roll". When the ship performs badly, it's "The Writer's Fault", but when the ship performs ok, it apparently is no longer a TELEVISON SHOW with those SAME writers and instead becomes a "real life view into the future where ACTUAL events are occurring".
CBS/Paramount has LONG since decreed that the Ent-E will be portrayed as a SUPERIOR successor to the Ent-D, which is why there has NEVER EVER been a Star Trek game in which the Galaxy Class Vessel came even close in firepower to the Sovereign class vessels. It will NEVER happen. These Galaxy fanboys apparently lack the ability to understand and accept that the Galaxy class vessel is not as "iconic" to other Star Trek fans as it is to THEM. Their "logic" is truly all over them map, they want to criticize other ships in the game and yet bizarrely expect to gain sympathy from those same players. They whine for THREE YEARS without having ANY game plan other than the SAME whining that has gotten them ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE in the same THREE YEARS.
Actually, it's pushed their ship FARTHER behind the newer released ships. When even the newly released Risian Corvette (Yes, from the PLEASURE planet RISA) has a MUCH better tactical set-up than their "beloved" Galaxy class, it continues to show to EVERYONE what Cryptic/CBS REALLY thinks of your "space hotel".
Even thought it's clear to everyone but the Galaxy fanboys that Cryptic/CBS doesn't care or give ANY validity to your "arguments", you keep pursuing the same failed strategy YEAR AFTER YEAR, with no alternate plan and no timeline. So, as long as you keep up the same FAILED strategies year after year, don't be surprised when you get the same FAILED results.
Obvious troll is obvious... so just ignore this guy please. He has no idea of what he's talking about and can't be respectful. He probably suffers with the delusion that the JHAS should be the most powerful ship in the game.
It's interesting when people disagree with you Galaxy fanboys, then they become a "troll", and they you attack the person without having the guts to try to deconstruct their point(s), because clearly you can't. But let me ask you this: what has your "self affirmations" gotten you in the last THREE YEARS?
Oh, you can dismiss me and all others who disagree with you as "trolls", but at the end of the day, you are no closer to your "goals" than you were in June 2010. Your "space hotel" become more and more irrelevant when even a Risian ship can beat it's can in space battle.
So you can ignore me and others who disagree with you all you want, but ironically, it appears that Cryptic/CBS is also ignoring you Galaxy fanboys in the same manner. Maybe they think of you as "Galaxy class trolls"?