What losses?
The Yamato to an Iconian software transmission purpose unknown? Can't count it.
The Odyssey which took surprisingly little damage despite being "unshielded" and took a ship sized torpedo into its deflector dish and warpcore? Can't count that one either.
There are no canon loses of the Galaxy class to enemy weapon fire.
And none during the entire length of the Dominion War.
The Odyssey was the victim of a kamikaze attack and was lost before the start of the Dominion War.
There is no on-screen evidence that says the Sovereign is a more tactically oriented ship.
Nothing.
In fact her combat record is dismal.
She plays no role in the destruction of the Borg Cube. Picard could have been aboard an escape pod and given them the coordinates. The did destroy an unshielded sphere.
Never fired a shot against the Son'a Battleships, had to use the elements to win.
In a straight fight would have lost, if for no other reason than they had Isolytic weapons.
In Nemesis she gets owned. She even runs out of weapon power before making a dent.
The Sovereign isn't what we have dreamed it into being.
Not cool Skyranger. I hope you find yourself getting well sooner, rather than later.
I'm just getting over Walking Pnemonia myself.
Incorrect.
The script for The Best Of Both Worlds: Part 2 states that J.P. Hanson's flagship was of the Galaxy class. And it was lost. Hanson's last message to Riker was from his vessel's battle bridge, both in the script and on-screen.
So, a Galaxy was lost to enemy fire prior to the arrival of the Dominion.
The script for The Best Of Both Worlds: Part 2 states that J.P. Hanson's flagship was of the Galaxy class. And it was lost. Hanson's last message to Riker was from his vessel's battle bridge, both in the script and on-screen.
So, a Galaxy was lost to enemy fire prior to the arrival of the Dominion.
Nope, he was in an excel. for why show up to the Enterprise in an excel only to switch later. That script is incorrect.
What losses?
The Yamato to an Iconian software transmission purpose unknown? Can't count it.
The Odyssey which took surprisingly little damage despite being "unshielded" and took a ship sized torpedo into its deflector dish and warpcore? Can't count that one either.
There are no canon loses of the Galaxy class to enemy weapon fire.
And none during the entire length of the Dominion War.
The Odyssey was the victim of a kamikaze attack and was lost before the start of the Dominion War.
There is no on-screen evidence that says the Sovereign is a more tactically oriented ship.
Nothing.
In fact her combat record is dismal.
She plays no role in the destruction of the Borg Cube. Picard could have been aboard an escape pod and given them the coordinates. The did destroy an unshielded sphere.
Never fired a shot against the Son'a Battleships, had to use the elements to win.
In a straight fight would have lost, if for no other reason than they had Isolytic weapons.
In Nemesis she gets owned. She even runs out of weapon power before making a dent.
The Sovereign isn't what we have dreamed it into being.
the sovereign makes a splendid excelsior and ambassador replacement thought huh? the sovereign was always a head scratcher. did they intentionally replace the enterprise D with a wholly inferior, though a bit more advanced, ship? because thats what they created.
new more powerful phaser emitters, but no array even half as long as the main arrays on a galaxy. quite a few torpedo launchers, and quantum torpedoes. but none of the launchers can fire more then about 3 of 4 torps before reloading, as seen in nemisis. the additional pre nemisis refit launchers are small and just single shot launchers. that vs the 2 enormous launchers the galaxy had, each capable of firing about 10 torps sequentially a second, with no observed upper limit for capacity before it has to reload.
its smaller to, obviously. less then half the volume of a galaxy. these ships are not in the same weight class, they do not compete at all, its rather silly to compare them.
according to gordie that last torpedoe directly hitting engineering sealed its fate, regardless of the rest of the fight. like the odyssey, it tanked a ton of direct to hull hits. though very small, bops appear to have weapons comparable to the defiant, so a threat to anything. if the enterprise had, i dont know, fired more then a single shot, 3 at most would proboly have done it, it could have blown that bop away easy. but, the script didn't call for the D actually surviving the movie. they had to write the bridge crew completely TRIBBLE, to lode to a bop. but i guess them not acting TRIBBLE that would make the klingons TRIBBLE for picking a fight even if they could bypass the D's shields. regardless, everything about that fight was TRIBBLE, and those 2 perfectly placed torpedoes at the beginning were what killed it.
What losses?
The Yamato to an Iconian software transmission purpose unknown? Can't count it.
The Odyssey which took surprisingly little damage despite being "unshielded" and took a ship sized torpedo into its deflector dish and warpcore? Can't count that one either.
There are no canon loses of the Galaxy class to enemy weapon fire.
And none during the entire length of the Dominion War.
The Odyssey was the victim of a kamikaze attack and was lost before the start of the Dominion War.
There is no on-screen evidence that says the Sovereign is a more tactically oriented ship.
Nothing.
In fact her combat record is dismal.
She plays no role in the destruction of the Borg Cube. Picard could have been aboard an escape pod and given them the coordinates. The did destroy an unshielded sphere.
Never fired a shot against the Son'a Battleships, had to use the elements to win.
In a straight fight would have lost, if for no other reason than they had Isolytic weapons.
In Nemesis she gets owned. She even runs out of weapon power before making a dent.
The Sovereign isn't what we have dreamed it into being.
You do forget the Death of the Enterprise D however and she was about to be destroyed in Yesterday's Enterprise and a Galaxy was lost in Parallels.
However... Yeah... The Sovvy, despite being newer and looking more seriously armored, did not actually have a very glorious career.
I believe Wesley also said that their warp core containment was already dangerously low, even before the parallel Enterprise-D fired the torpedo at it's Borg-scarred counterpart.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
There is no on-screen evidence that says the Sovereign is a more tactically oriented ship.
Nothing.
In fact her combat record is dismal.
She plays no role in the destruction of the Borg Cube. Picard could have been aboard an escape pod and given them the coordinates. The did destroy an unshielded sphere.
Never fired a shot against the Son'a Battleships, had to use the elements to win.
In a straight fight would have lost, if for no other reason than they had Isolytic weapons.
In Nemesis she gets owned. She even runs out of weapon power before making a dent.
The Sovereign isn't what we have dreamed it into being.
The sov was made to fight the borg like the defaint. And by playing no part in the cubes destruction i guess its phaser and quantum torps being shot into the cube was total nonfactor.
About the son'a you willing to go firing all crazy like in a nebula full of explosive gas? Besides they were ordered to go contact starfleet not kill the son'a.
And in nemesis you know the reason it doesnt make a dent is cause the E couldnt SEE the scimitar to shoot it, but it could see the E. Its not surprising it runs out of ammo before making a dent.
Im not saying the E is super powerful. Im just saying your view on those battles seems very clouded. In the end the E is marginally more powerful then a galaxy and its mainly due to its toughness not its firepower.
The sov was made to fight the borg like the defaint. And by playing no part in the cubes destruction i guess its phaser and quantum torps being shot into the cube was total nonfactor.
About the son'a you willing to go firing all crazy like in a nebula full of explosive gas? Besides they were ordered to go contact starfleet not kill the son'a.
And in nemesis you know the reason it doesnt make a dent is cause the E couldnt SEE the scimitar to shoot it, but it could see the E. Its not surprising it runs out of ammo before making a dent.
Im not saying the E is super powerful. Im just saying your view on those battles seems very clouded. In the end the E is marginally more powerful then a galaxy and its mainly due to its toughness not its firepower.
i think its a little naive to think the sovereign class was created in just the time between between wolf 359 and first contact. the galaxy reportedly took 20 years from start to finish to create, the sov proboly took half that long at least. the borg influenced a lot, from tactics and technology, but other then directly leading to the defiant i doubt it was the fundamental influence people assume it was. that goes for all the new classed you see in first contact and later DS9.
the E was outmatched by the persuading sona, they didn't fight, just tried to flee. since they couldn't out run them, they had to get clever
in nemisis, thanks to how great beam arrays are, the scimitar was lit up nearly the whole fight. it was hitting it constantly, with torps too. it would have been real interesting to see how a 2379 spec galaxy would have done vs a scimitar, with its much huger mkXII phaser arrays dealing MUCH more damage per shot, or with the volume of fire those torpedo launchers of hers were capable of. with the erta damage soak, and extra post dominion war hull armor, and a non peace time internal configuration unlike what the enterprise D had, that would not have been such a 1 sided fight
Ent-D lost to a warpcore explosion caused by a conveniently placed torpedo.(And to Riker)
Same thing would take out the Sovereign. I fail to see your point.
If I shoot your ship and it causes your engine to blow up....that means I beat you.
A klingon BOP damaged the ENT-D to the point of destruction.
Thats like saying Luke Skywalker didnt blow up the Death Star it was a chain reaction....caused by a conveniently placed torpedo
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
i think its a little naive to think the sovereign class was created in just the time between between wolf 359 and first contact. the galaxy reportedly took 20 years from start to finish to create, the sov proboly took half that long at least. the borg influenced a lot, from tactics and technology, but other then directly leading to the defiant i doubt it was the fundamental influence people assume it was. that goes for all the new classed you see in first contact and later DS9.
the E was outmatched by the persuading sona, they didn't fight, just tried to flee. since they couldn't out run them, they had to get clever
in nemisis, thanks to how great beam arrays are, the scimitar was lit up nearly the whole fight. it was hitting it constantly, with torps too. it would have been real interesting to see how a 2379 spec galaxy would have done vs a scimitar, with its much huger mkXII phaser arrays dealing MUCH more damage per shot, or with the volume of fire those torpedo launchers of hers were capable of. with the erta damage soak, and extra post dominion war hull armor, and a non peace time internal configuration unlike what the enterprise D had, that would not have been such a 1 sided fight
<<When did constrution start for the Enterprise-E?>>
We never addressed this point, but my working assumption was that the E-E
had her keel laid sometime during TNG's last season and was probably going
to be given another name. When the E-D was destroyed, that Sovereign-class
ship was nearing completion and was then christened Enterprise. This same
sort of thing happened during WWII. After the carrier Yorktown was sunk at
Midway, the US Navy decided to rename a carrier then under construction
in honor of the fallen ship.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
i think its a little naive to think the sovereign class was created in just the time between between wolf 359 and first contact. the galaxy reportedly took 20 years from start to finish to create, the sov proboly took half that long at least. the borg influenced a lot, from tactics and technology, but other then directly leading to the defiant i doubt it was the fundamental influence people assume it was. that goes for all the new classed you see in first contact and later DS9.
the E was outmatched by the persuading sona, they didn't fight, just tried to flee. since they couldn't out run them, they had to get clever
in nemisis, thanks to how great beam arrays are, the scimitar was lit up nearly the whole fight. it was hitting it constantly, with torps too. it would have been real interesting to see how a 2379 spec galaxy would have done vs a scimitar, with its much huger mkXII phaser arrays dealing MUCH more damage per shot, or with the volume of fire those torpedo launchers of hers were capable of. with the erta damage soak, and extra post dominion war hull armor, and a non peace time internal configuration unlike what the enterprise D had, that would not have been such a 1 sided fight
Everything I saw says that the sovreign project was a long term research project with the idea if in need the sovreign(tactical orient ship) could be built and launch quickly. And it was quite a few years between Generations and FC. thus you see the uniform change and Fc era ships. And since the E-E isn't the prototype I could see her made in a year.
Still in about a decade most of the original Galaxys built were destroyed. that had to make them think. How many other ships class have that type of record. The Sovriegn however has 2 sets of sheilds, Quantum toprs, and is faster, And note E-E went up against the Scimitar which had fire clock, if it wasn't cloacked more damaged would have been done. The galaxy is a godd ship but sadly her intial design left her unprepared for the wars to come. thus you seethe venture refit. and eventually the Gal X
Name them.
Ent-D Yamato Odyssey
During the Dominion War she had the best kill to death ratio. 0 deaths.
The Sovereign does not have 2 sets of shields that is fan fiction/speculation.
You do forget the Death of the Enterprise D however and she was about to be destroyed in Yesterday's Enterprise and a Galaxy was lost in Parallels.
Haha! I did forget about it in that post. Yesterday's Enterprise we don't see her lose though and in Parallels I'm not really sure you can count that one.
However... Yeah... The Sovvy, despite being newer and looking more seriously armored, did not actually have a very glorious career.
The sov was made to fight the borg like the defaint. And by playing no part in the cubes destruction i guess its phaser and quantum torps being shot into the cube was total nonfactor.
No she wasn't. Find me a canon source that says she was made to fight the Borg.
And no, her shots didn't. The FLEET that she was a part of could have done that without her being there so her contribution is a non factor.
About the son'a you willing to go firing all crazy like in a nebula full of explosive gas? Besides they were ordered to go contact starfleet not kill the son'a.
24 High Power Phaser Banks
6 Quantum Tubes
(Since people here seem to think more automatically equals better/more powerful. Perhaps these numbers will "show" just how undergunned the Sovereign was to the Son'a Battleships.)
Isolytic weapons.
And in nemesis you know the reason it doesnt make a dent is cause the E couldnt SEE the scimitar to shoot it, but it could see the E. Its not surprising it runs out of ammo before making a dent.
Actually it is very surprising that she ran out of ammo and power that quickly.
For a ship that was supposedly "made to fight the Borg" wouldn't you want a ship that could last longer than say... 2 or 3 minutes in a straight up fight?
Or have enough torpedo ammunition to be a threat past 45 some odd torps?
Even when the Scimitar wasn't cloaked the Ent E couldn't do anything to it.
Im not saying the E is super powerful. Im just saying your view on those battles seems very clouded. In the end the E is marginally more powerful then a galaxy and its mainly due to its toughness not its firepower.
And I'm saying that people have let the shiny factor get into their eyes to much.
The ship is impressive, but she is not the Battleship that the Galaxy class is.
Check out her performance in comparison to other ships shown on-screen and using that information you will see that she is out performed in the combat department by the Galaxy.
<<When did constrution start for the Enterprise-E?>>
We never addressed this point, but my working assumption was that the E-E
had her keel laid sometime during TNG's last season and was probably going
to be given another name. When the E-D was destroyed, that Sovereign-class
ship was nearing completion and was then christened Enterprise. This same
sort of thing happened during WWII. After the carrier Yorktown was sunk at
Midway, the US Navy decided to rename a carrier then under construction
in honor of the fallen ship.
Aside from not being canon, you are talking about an assumption of one person.
Even if that person is Moore.
It also seems to ignore the naming rules of Star Fleet in that for some reason or another they name the first of the ships from that class after the class name itself.
So the first Sovereign off the line would have been the USS Sovereign itself.
Aside from not being canon, you are talking about an assumption of one person.
Even if that person is Moore.
It also seems to ignore the naming rules of Star Fleet in that for some reason or another they name the first of the ships from that class after the class name itself.
So the first Sovereign off the line would have been the USS Sovereign itself.
the first ship was the USS Sovereign
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Name them.
Ent-D Yamato Odyssey
During the Dominion War she had the best kill to death ratio. 0 deaths.
The Sovereign does not have 2 sets of shields that is fan fiction/speculation.
No she wasn't. Find me a canon source that says she was made to fight the Borg.
And no, her shots didn't. The FLEET that she was a part of could have done that without her being there so her contribution is a non factor.
24 High Power Phaser Banks
6 Quantum Tubes
(Since people here seem to think more automatically equals better/more powerful. Perhaps these numbers will "show" just how undergunned the Sovereign was to the Son'a Battleships.)
Isolytic weapons.
Actually it is very surprising that she ran out of ammo and power that quickly.
For a ship that was supposedly "made to fight the Borg" wouldn't you want a ship that could last longer than say... 2 or 3 minutes in a straight up fight?
Or have enough torpedo ammunition to be a threat past 45 some odd torps?
Even when the Scimitar wasn't cloaked the Ent E couldn't do anything to it.
And I'm saying that people have let the shiny factor get into their eyes to much.
The ship is impressive, but she is not the Battleship that the Galaxy class is.
Check out her performance in comparison to other ships shown on-screen and using that information you will see that she is out performed in the combat department by the Galaxy.
you are comparing the actions of one ship in a show that ran for 7 seasons against a ship that appeared in 3 terrible to ok movies
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
<<When did constrution start for the Enterprise-E?>>
We never addressed this point, but my working assumption was that the E-E
had her keel laid sometime during TNG's last season and was probably going
to be given another name. When the E-D was destroyed, that Sovereign-class
ship was nearing completion and was then christened Enterprise. This same
sort of thing happened during WWII. After the carrier Yorktown was sunk at
Midway, the US Navy decided to rename a carrier then under construction
in honor of the fallen ship.
theres a difference between constructing the ship, and the start of the project that engineered and designed the class. it does not take 20 years to assemble a galaxy class. the uss sovereign was proboly mostly constructed and was doing test flights by the time wolf 359 happens, but was far from ready to be commissioned and on active duty
Name them.
Ent-D Yamato Odyssey
During the Dominion War she had the best kill to death ratio. 0 deaths.
The Sovereign does not have 2 sets of shields that is fan fiction/speculation.
No she wasn't. Find me a canon source that says she was made to fight the Borg.
And no, her shots didn't. The FLEET that she was a part of could have done that without her being there so her contribution is a non factor.
24 High Power Phaser Banks
6 Quantum Tubes
(Since people here seem to think more automatically equals better/more powerful. Perhaps these numbers will "show" just how undergunned the Sovereign was to the Son'a Battleships.)
Isolytic weapons.
Actually it is very surprising that she ran out of ammo and power that quickly.
For a ship that was supposedly "made to fight the Borg" wouldn't you want a ship that could last longer than say... 2 or 3 minutes in a straight up fight?
Or have enough torpedo ammunition to be a threat past 45 some odd torps?
Even when the Scimitar wasn't cloaked the Ent E couldn't do anything to it.
And I'm saying that people have let the shiny factor get into their eyes to much.
The ship is impressive, but she is not the Battleship that the Galaxy class is.
Check out her performance in comparison to other ships shown on-screen and using that information you will see that she is out performed in the combat department by the Galaxy.
Note I said original Galaxys. the original set inculed 6 gal hulls 3 comissioned. Galaxy, Yamato, E-D. Some say there was also Columbia and it was destroyed due to an engine flaw but i'll skip that one for now.
Yamato was first to go due to Iconian program. Oydessey is comissoned to replace her and being one of the spare hulls could be quickly finished and they tried a new bridge layout with her. She fought the dominion and considering she had no sheilds did well but a single bug ship got through her defenses and blew. Months later E-D goes down to a 20 year old BOP of a retired class. Again no sheilds and took some beating but the Duras sister had good aim, most of the shots on the engineering section and even a scraped a nacelle. do to plot riker doesn't unleash hell on the bop but in the end she is gone. So in about a decade all but the Galaxy and 2 spare hulls are destroyed. Starfleet had to rethink the class. the first answer was the Venture. Likely one of the other spare hulls but the added phaser strips to add defe nse among other not known changes but with war coming they couldn't do it to all the Galaxys. they need them out now. so we get the DW. A bare bones battle capable Galaxy with minor tech improve ments. Some hint at a renforced neck. But after the DW this ships were probably sent back to spacedock for final completetion and will likely be upgraded to Venture specs.
In the end while the Galaxy can be refitted for battle she was designed as an exploreer first. Sov was designed as a warships first but given enough to also do thisngs the Galaxy can do. Sov and Gal are oppisite sides of the same coin. and note Nemisis ammo problem was plot driven. Also note the FC fleet in FC l;asted much longer than Hansons fleet in Best of both worlds. the major difference was ship type.
359 the bulk of the fleet would havge been 23rd centruy classes with tech refits like Sratoga and Hansons flagships. we did have a handful of Ambassador and gal tech era ships but out of a fleet of 40 they were likely 10. and they only lasted minutes
FC. The bulk of these ships were produced in the last couple of years so the latest in fed tech with a handful of older ships like a Miranda. and they lasted hours for E-E to get there..
Dw was not really a planned war so Starfleet was not fully ready and early losses dictaded have older ships just so they have numbers. and with hundreds of Excels and Miranda's they would make up the bulk of the fleets. I would not be surprised in those 2 classes alone made up 50 percent of the fleet. but there numbers had to have been hit hard after the war. so more FC era ships would be built to replace them. However some Lakota variant Excels could have been made.
Note I said original Galaxys. the original set inculed 6 gal hulls 3 comissioned. Galaxy, Yamato, E-D. Some say there was also Columbia and it was destroyed due to an engine flaw but i'll skip that one for now.
Yamato was first to go due to Iconian program. Oydessey is comissoned to replace her and being one of the spare hulls could be quickly finished and they tried a new bridge layout with her. She fought the dominion and considering she had no sheilds did well but a single bug ship got through her defenses and blew. Months later E-D goes down to a 20 year old BOP of a retired class. Again no sheilds and took some beating but the Duras sister had good aim, most of the shots on the engineering section and even a scraped a nacelle. do to plot riker doesn't unleash hell on the bop but in the end she is gone. So in about a decade all but the Galaxy and 2 spare hulls are destroyed. Starfleet had to rethink the class. the first answer was the Venture. Likely one of the other spare hulls but the added phaser strips to add defe nse among other not known changes but with war coming they couldn't do it to all the Galaxys. they need them out now. so we get the DW. A bare bones battle capable Galaxy with minor tech improve ments. Some hint at a renforced neck. But after the DW this ships were probably sent back to spacedock for final completetion and will likely be upgraded to Venture specs.
In the end while the Galaxy can be refitted for battle she was designed as an exploreer first. Sov was designed as a warships first but given enough to also do thisngs the Galaxy can do. Sov and Gal are oppisite sides of the same coin. and note Nemisis ammo problem was plot driven. Also note the FC fleet in FC l;asted much longer than Hansons fleet in Best of both worlds. the major difference was ship type.
359 the bulk of the fleet would havge been 23rd centruy classes with tech refits like Sratoga and Hansons flagships. we did have a handful of Ambassador and gal tech era ships but out of a fleet of 40 they were likely 10. and they only lasted minutes
FC. The bulk of these ships were produced in the last couple of years so the latest in fed tech with a handful of older ships like a Miranda. and they lasted hours for E-E to get there..
Dw was not really a planned war so Starfleet was not fully ready and early losses dictaded have older ships just so they have numbers. and with hundreds of Excels and Miranda's they would make up the bulk of the fleets. I would not be surprised in those 2 classes alone made up 50 percent of the fleet. but there numbers had to have been hit hard after the war. so more FC era ships would be built to replace them. However some Lakota variant Excels could have been made.
there was 6 total chassis made wile the uss galaxy was finishing its final trials, they only intended to fully build the first 3, and save the rest for later, for any number of reasons. if the yamato blew up because of a serious flaw, they would be pretty glad they held off building a bunch of biggest ever flawed ships.
my guess is that after the D first encountered the borg, the galaxy class went into MASS production. if they started much later then that, it would be hard to explain the 10 or 20 you can see at a time there in DS9. by the dominion war there was proboly 30 to 50 of them, maybe those last 20 were the striped down shells with nothing but what it needed to serve as a battleship. the rest that were already built, highly likely not to have been setup like the peace time enterprise D, and proboly striped of most none essentials too, and up armored on the neck and engineering hull.
70% of a galaxy class starship's interior space is modular, and hot swappable. its more customizable then the ships in sto! the galaxy was not designed to be an explorer to the exclusion of other things, the enterprise D was configured to be overwhelmingly an explorer, thats all. depending on how that interior space is used, it can be a full on battleship, or a flying research facility/city. thanks to the ingenious phaser array, laying a hugely powerful gun across a large amount of the surface and taking minimal interior space, the ship can have hugely powerful guns without taking up a ton of modular interior space.
there really isnt this 'venture refit' that galaxy physical model was only shown with those extra arrays because undoing the galaxy X bastardization wasn't so easy. you see the venture later without them, with the cgi switch, its basically retconed. those extra arrays are useless anyway. anything those small arrays could hit, one of the 2 huge main arrays could as well. and there was the other secondary hull arrays covering those fireing arcs too. totally useless additions best forgotten.
there was 6 total chassis made wile the uss galaxy was finishing its final trials, they only intended to fully build the first 3, and save the rest for later, for any number of reasons. if the yamato blew up because of a serious flaw, they would be pretty glad they held off building a bunch of biggest ever flawed ships.
my guess is that after the D first encountered the borg, the galaxy class went into MASS production. if they started much later then that, it would be hard to explain the 10 or 20 you can see at a time there in DS9. by the dominion war there was proboly 30 to 50 of them, maybe those last 20 were the striped down shells with nothing but what it needed to serve as a battleship. the rest that were already built, highly likely not to have been setup like the peace time enterprise D, and proboly striped of most none essentials too, and up armored on the neck and engineering hull.
70% of a galaxy class starship's interior space is modular, and hot swappable. its more customizable then the ships in sto! the galaxy was not designed to be an explorer to the exclusion of other things, the enterprise D was configured to be overwhelmingly an explorer, thats all. depending on how that interior space is used, it can be a full on battleship, or a flying research facility/city. thanks to the ingenious phaser array, laying a hugely powerful gun across a large amount of the surface and taking minimal interior space, the ship can have hugely powerful guns without taking up a ton of modular interior space.
there really isnt this 'venture refit' that galaxy physical model was only shown with those extra arrays because undoing the galaxy X bastardization wasn't so easy. you see the venture later without them, with the cgi switch, its basically retconed. those extra arrays are useless anyway. anything those small arrays could hit, one of the 2 huge main arrays could as well. and there was the other secondary hull arrays covering those fireing arcs too. totally useless additions best forgotten.
I say about 20 Galaxys in total during DW. And show me a picture of the Venture without the strips.
I say about 20 Galaxys in total during DW. And show me a picture of the Venture without the strips.
Which would translate into the Galaxy is capable of doing multi-roles. So why not make it in the same respect as the Vesta... a Multi-Mission Cruiser! The Odyssey should not be the three pack at all, Cryptic would have sold it better if it had been the Galaxy that was getting the glamour treatment.
Note I said original Galaxys. the original set inculed 6 gal hulls 3 comissioned. Galaxy, Yamato, E-D. Some say there was also Columbia and it was destroyed due to an engine flaw but i'll skip that one for now.
It was 12 ships.
6 completed 6 broken down and put into storage.
In the end while the Galaxy can be refitted for battle she was designed as an exploreer first. Sov was designed as a warships first but given enough to also do thisngs the Galaxy can do. Sov and Gal are oppisite sides of the same coin. and note Nemisis ammo problem was plot driven. Also note the FC fleet in FC l;asted much longer than Hansons fleet in Best of both worlds. the major difference was ship type.
Pure speculation on the Sovereign being designed as a warship or even being designed more for battle than exploration/peace. That is purely fan fiction.
There is nothing out there backed by canon that says the Sovereign was designed specifically for the Borg, with the Borg in mind, for combat over exploration or anything of the sort.
If you are going to claim that the ammo problem in Nemesis is plot driven then I can claim the same for the Enterprise D. The show was supposed to see its destruction, it was stupidity that claimed the BoP as the plot element to do so. Openly admitted even. Riker's total lack of anything in retaliation or self defense, even going to so far as to openly expose the most vulnerable part of the ship to the enemy...
I agree with the FC Fleet being able to last longer due to it being made up of newer ships.
But we also don't know how far out they actually engaged the Borg Cube or how large the Fleet was or how many losses they ended up taking.
An argument can certainly be made out of making the Amby, Galaxy, and even a theoretical Fleet Exeter all skins for the AC line of ships.
It'd make everyone happier and it would serve to make up for the design meta moving away from what was planned back in pre launch and even pre F2p. Just make it so that to get the extra skins you have to own the retrofit version of the ship whose skin you wanted to have on your AC. ANd just like that, problem solved.
Useless uniqueness is useless.
Its one thing to move the skin type to a different type of ship, another to want to ramp up one class (Galaxy) because other ships can do something that they cannot. If they made it available as a skin type for other ships that'd be fine. I would argue against it being the same as the Sovy and other ships, the maneuverability should be worse than the small cruisers is.
Is it not those exact same 3 movies that have you and others saying that the Sovereign is the better ship?
because in every instance of ship switching the crew went to an either an equal or better ship
TOS ENT to TMP ENT = Better ship
TMP ENT to ENT-A = Equal ship
ENT-A to ENT-B = Better ship
ENT-B to ENT-C = Better ship
ENT-C to ENT-D = Better ship
If this is true then why isn't it that the E is better or equal to the D????
I dont think Picard would accept a ship that was weaker or not as powerful as the previous ship. Imagine if in this game you make lvl 30 and your only choice is a ship weaker than the one you had?
Geordi mentions that the E is the most advanced ship in the fleet. Is he only talking about the warp core or the transporters?
Don't they say the same thing about the D in TNG? Why is it if they say the D is the most advanced ship in the fleet at that time we all admit its the best ship but when they say it about the E it has to be denied?
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
there was 6 total chassis made wile the uss galaxy was finishing its final trials, they only intended to fully build the first 3, and save the rest for later, for any number of reasons. if the yamato blew up because of a serious flaw, they would be pretty glad they held off building a bunch of biggest ever flawed ships.
my guess is that after the D first encountered the borg, the galaxy class went into MASS production. if they started much later then that, it would be hard to explain the 10 or 20 you can see at a time there in DS9. by the dominion war there was proboly 30 to 50 of them, maybe those last 20 were the striped down shells with nothing but what it needed to serve as a battleship. the rest that were already built, highly likely not to have been setup like the peace time enterprise D, and proboly striped of most none essentials too, and up armored on the neck and engineering hull.
You seem to like to throw the term "battleship" around easily around the Galaxy class. It was never a battleship, nor intended to be one. Battleships have one job, to blow up other ships, buildings and people. Even with "modular designs" the ship doesn't fit it, especially with a saucer section that is designed to separate and leave because it isn't tactically necessary. At least the Prometheus sections are designed to stick around in a fight.
70% of a galaxy class starship's interior space is modular, and hot swappable. its more customizable then the ships in sto! the galaxy was not designed to be an explorer to the exclusion of other things, the enterprise D was configured to be overwhelmingly an explorer, thats all. depending on how that interior space is used, it can be a full on battleship, or a flying research facility/city. thanks to the ingenious phaser array, laying a hugely powerful gun across a large amount of the surface and taking minimal interior space, the ship can have hugely powerful guns without taking up a ton of modular interior space.
Is this the same phaser array that leaves the ship after saucer separation?
It was 12 ships.
6 completed 6 broken down and put into storage.
Pure speculation on the Sovereign being designed as a warship or even being designed more for battle than exploration/peace. That is purely fan fiction.
There is nothing out there backed by canon that says the Sovereign was designed specifically for the Borg, with the Borg in mind, for combat over exploration or anything of the sort.
If you are going to claim that the ammo problem in Nemesis is plot driven then I can claim the same for the Enterprise D. The show was supposed to see its destruction, it was stupidity that claimed the BoP as the plot element to do so. Openly admitted even. Riker's total lack of anything in retaliation or self defense, even going to so far as to openly expose the most vulnerable part of the ship to the enemy...
I agree with the FC Fleet being able to last longer due to it being made up of newer ships.
But we also don't know how far out they actually engaged the Borg Cube or how large the Fleet was or how many losses they ended up taking.
Do you have their names? Including Columbia i count 4 inital launched ships with 4 in storage. Odyessy and Venture were among the spare hulls.
Look at the history of Starfleet. TOS through TMp era the ships were evenly balanced between peace and war. TNG era. they were at peace with Klingons and Rommies and no one else could go toe toe with them in a extended war. Thus you see designs lean more to the peace side. Intrepid was that last of these ships. Fc era ships lean for war as the time showed it. Thus any FC era ships IS more tacically oriented but still useful in peace time. thus as i have said Gal and Sov are tow sides of the same coin.
You seem to like to throw the term "battleship" around easily around the Galaxy class. It was never a battleship, nor intended to be one. Battleships have one job, to blow up other ships, buildings and people. Even with "modular designs" the ship doesn't fit it, especially with a saucer section that is designed to separate and leave because it isn't tactically necessary. At least the Prometheus sections are designed to stick around in a fight.
more antifan fanon. battleships is the term that describes the largest and most heavily armed type of ship. im not sure what restrictive metric you judge the term by, but it fits that criteria. in yesterdays enterprise, you see a galaxy class set up to be a battleship, not an explorer. there is no exterior difference, it was designed to fill any role, to be configured for any role between science vessel and dedicated combat battleship.
Is this the same phaser array that leaves the ship after saucer separation?
it sure did separate when it went into battle a lot didn't it? oh wait it didn't, there was just that 1 time in season 1. and that wasnt to fight off a powerful foe, just one that was invisible and could attack at will with impunity. the civilians were safe from its harassment wile the star drive section, that by itself proboly had about the combat potential of an ambassador class, look the hits and dealt with the attacker. the saucer seperation was not something that improved combat ability. doesn't mater much in game, it turns better separated. theres is nothing in game that correctly represents large phaser arrays, so theres no disadvantage other then a bit less hitpoints. the beam arrays in game? accurate representation of the tiny aft arrays on the stardrive section, not the large arrays on large federation ships. the galaxy should be fireing a single BO 3 every 2 seconds from its forward arrays in game, that would be accurate
with how phaser arrays work, assuming they got most of their power from the warp core, the separated saucer would have the same potential firepower, just less rate of fire. each of the 200 emitters holds its own charge like a battery, and can contribute its energy to the fireing point. the more emitters involved in this, the more powerful the best shot can be. it would just be a question of how long it would take to charge all the emitters from just the impulse reactors.
because in every instance of ship switching the crew went to an either an equal or better ship
TOS ENT to TMP ENT = Better ship
TMP ENT to ENT-A = Equal ship
ENT-A to ENT-B = Better ship
ENT-B to ENT-C = Better ship
ENT-C to ENT-D = Better ship
If this is true then why isn't it that the E is better or equal to the D????
I dont think Picard would accept a ship that was weaker or not as powerful as the previous ship. Imagine if in this game you make lvl 30 and your only choice is a ship weaker than the one you had?
Geordi mentions that the E is the most advanced ship in the fleet. Is he only talking about the warp core or the transporters?
Don't they say the same thing about the D in TNG? Why is it if they say the D is the most advanced ship in the fleet at that time we all admit its the best ship but when they say it about the E it has to be denied?
Picard isn't "choosing" his Captaincy based on the power of the ship vs his last.
It is his duty, and that is that. If his duty to the Fleet says that he is Captain of a Garbage Scow, than he is Captain of a Garbage Scow until told otherwise.
Advanced does not mean more powerful.
Look at the Combustion engine over the last decade. Several "advances" have been made to allow them to run more efficiently. Despite being more efficient, many of them are not more "powerful" than they have ever been, or in some cases even been in recent years.
Advanced denotes more in the way the development of the tech has been carried out and implemented rather than in a way to exhibit strength.
You seem to like to throw the term "battleship" around easily around the Galaxy class. It was never a battleship, nor intended to be one. Battleships have one job, to blow up other ships, buildings and people. Even with "modular designs" the ship doesn't fit it, especially with a saucer section that is designed to separate and leave because it isn't tactically necessary. At least the Prometheus sections are designed to stick around in a fight.
Is this the same phaser array that leaves the ship after saucer separation?
The term battleship has only been used in conjunction with the Galaxy class.
In 3 separate episodes the ship has been referred to as a Battleship.
Something that no other ship has been labeled as in Star Fleet.
Do you have their names? Including Columbia i count 4 inital launched ships with 4 in storage. Odyessy and Venture were among the spare hulls.
Look at the history of Starfleet. TOS through TMp era the ships were evenly balanced between peace and war. TNG era. they were at peace with Klingons and Rommies and no one else could go toe toe with them in a extended war. Thus you see designs lean more to the peace side. Intrepid was that last of these ships. Fc era ships lean for war as the time showed it. Thus any FC era ships IS more tacically oriented but still useful in peace time. thus as i have said Gal and Sov are tow sides of the same coin.
There were 6 according to Roddenberry.
USS Galaxy
USS Enterprise D
USS Yamato
USS Odyssey
USS Venture
USS Challenger (Appears in Voyager at the end)
These 6 are believed to be the original 6.
Several other ships are noted on screen that also belong to the Galaxy Class.
During the TNG era they were not at peace.
There were still tensions with the Klingons. War had just concluded with the Cardassians.
Conflicts with the Tzenthki, Tholians and another race whoms name escapes me at the moment, had all been in recent conflict with the Federation. So the era in which the Galaxy entered and was constructed during was a fairly turbulent one.
Additionally the Galaxy has been mentioned as being a mobile starbase for the purposes of showing the flag and defending against encroachment by hostile powers.
It was also stated that Commodore Santin was afraid that fielding a ship with such destructive capabilities might serve as a provocation to the Federation's enemies. (FASA RPG module: Star Trek: The Next Generation Officer's Manual)
Not true since in the episode "Defiant", Gul Dukat describes the Defiant as "one of the most heavily armed warships in the Quadrant
why is it when the 'D' is described as the most advance ship it is better than every thing but when the same thing is said about the 'E' we have to make excuses for it
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Picard isn't "choosing" his Captaincy based on the power of the ship vs his last.
It is his duty, and that is that. If his duty to the Fleet says that he is Captain of a Garbage Scow, than he is Captain of a Garbage Scow until told otherwise.
Advanced does not mean more powerful.
Look at the Combustion engine over the last decade. Several "advances" have been made to allow them to run more efficiently. Despite being more efficient, many of them are not more "powerful" than they have ever been, or in some cases even been in recent years.
Advanced denotes more in the way the development of the tech has been carried out and implemented rather than in a way to exhibit strength.
The term battleship has only been used in conjunction with the Galaxy class.
In 3 separate episodes the ship has been referred to as a Battleship.
Something that no other ship has been labeled as in Star Fleet.
There were 6 according to Roddenberry.
USS Galaxy
USS Enterprise D
USS Yamato
USS Odyssey
USS Venture
USS Challenger (Appears in Voyager at the end)
These 6 are believed to be the original 6.
Several other ships are noted on screen that also belong to the Galaxy Class.
During the TNG era they were not at peace.
There were still tensions with the Klingons. War had just concluded with the Cardassians.
Conflicts with the Tzenthki, Tholians and another race whoms name escapes me at the moment, had all been in recent conflict with the Federation. So the era in which the Galaxy entered and was constructed during was a fairly turbulent one.
Additionally the Galaxy has been mentioned as being a mobile starbase for the purposes of showing the flag and defending against encroachment by hostile powers.
It was also stated that Commodore Santin was afraid that fielding a ship with such destructive capabilities might serve as a provocation to the Federation's enemies. (FASA RPG module: Star Trek: The Next Generation Officer's Manual)
Odyssey, Venture, and Challenger I'll grant be of the originaly group but originally as the spare hulls. And when the Yamato, and ED went down Odyssey, and Likly Challenger launched to replace them. Then Oydssey went down and we have Venture. So in the end still total of 6 hulls for first run and as time changed Starfleet started mass production and we get the DW era of Galaxys.
Um by the time the Galaxy was launch they were in a strong Alliance with the Klingons. They had peace and haven't heard from the Rommies in decades. and the cardassian war like most of the others mention were more skirmish than actual war. the the carddie war likely as long as the first gulf war. and still could have been over before Galaxy launch. we don't know when the carddie war was. O'brian could have just came out of the academy when it happened. And Captain maxwell was old enough to be a veteran captain at the time. It was the mentality of the fleet that betrayed the Galaxy. They had no major threat at the time. Only after the Galaxy was launch did they encounter the borg and the dominion. THe early TNG era was essentually the Carter years for the fleet and the 2370's was the Regan years.
Comments
Incorrect.
The script for The Best Of Both Worlds: Part 2 states that J.P. Hanson's flagship was of the Galaxy class. And it was lost. Hanson's last message to Riker was from his vessel's battle bridge, both in the script and on-screen.
So, a Galaxy was lost to enemy fire prior to the arrival of the Dominion.
Nope, he was in an excel. for why show up to the Enterprise in an excel only to switch later. That script is incorrect.
the sovereign makes a splendid excelsior and ambassador replacement thought huh? the sovereign was always a head scratcher. did they intentionally replace the enterprise D with a wholly inferior, though a bit more advanced, ship? because thats what they created.
new more powerful phaser emitters, but no array even half as long as the main arrays on a galaxy. quite a few torpedo launchers, and quantum torpedoes. but none of the launchers can fire more then about 3 of 4 torps before reloading, as seen in nemisis. the additional pre nemisis refit launchers are small and just single shot launchers. that vs the 2 enormous launchers the galaxy had, each capable of firing about 10 torps sequentially a second, with no observed upper limit for capacity before it has to reload.
its smaller to, obviously. less then half the volume of a galaxy. these ships are not in the same weight class, they do not compete at all, its rather silly to compare them.
according to gordie that last torpedoe directly hitting engineering sealed its fate, regardless of the rest of the fight. like the odyssey, it tanked a ton of direct to hull hits. though very small, bops appear to have weapons comparable to the defiant, so a threat to anything. if the enterprise had, i dont know, fired more then a single shot, 3 at most would proboly have done it, it could have blown that bop away easy. but, the script didn't call for the D actually surviving the movie. they had to write the bridge crew completely TRIBBLE, to lode to a bop. but i guess them not acting TRIBBLE that would make the klingons TRIBBLE for picking a fight even if they could bypass the D's shields. regardless, everything about that fight was TRIBBLE, and those 2 perfectly placed torpedoes at the beginning were what killed it.
You do forget the Death of the Enterprise D however and she was about to be destroyed in Yesterday's Enterprise and a Galaxy was lost in Parallels.
However... Yeah... The Sovvy, despite being newer and looking more seriously armored, did not actually have a very glorious career.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
The sov was made to fight the borg like the defaint. And by playing no part in the cubes destruction i guess its phaser and quantum torps being shot into the cube was total nonfactor.
About the son'a you willing to go firing all crazy like in a nebula full of explosive gas? Besides they were ordered to go contact starfleet not kill the son'a.
And in nemesis you know the reason it doesnt make a dent is cause the E couldnt SEE the scimitar to shoot it, but it could see the E. Its not surprising it runs out of ammo before making a dent.
Im not saying the E is super powerful. Im just saying your view on those battles seems very clouded. In the end the E is marginally more powerful then a galaxy and its mainly due to its toughness not its firepower.
i think its a little naive to think the sovereign class was created in just the time between between wolf 359 and first contact. the galaxy reportedly took 20 years from start to finish to create, the sov proboly took half that long at least. the borg influenced a lot, from tactics and technology, but other then directly leading to the defiant i doubt it was the fundamental influence people assume it was. that goes for all the new classed you see in first contact and later DS9.
the E was outmatched by the persuading sona, they didn't fight, just tried to flee. since they couldn't out run them, they had to get clever
in nemisis, thanks to how great beam arrays are, the scimitar was lit up nearly the whole fight. it was hitting it constantly, with torps too. it would have been real interesting to see how a 2379 spec galaxy would have done vs a scimitar, with its much huger mkXII phaser arrays dealing MUCH more damage per shot, or with the volume of fire those torpedo launchers of hers were capable of. with the erta damage soak, and extra post dominion war hull armor, and a non peace time internal configuration unlike what the enterprise D had, that would not have been such a 1 sided fight
If I shoot your ship and it causes your engine to blow up....that means I beat you.
A klingon BOP damaged the ENT-D to the point of destruction.
Thats like saying Luke Skywalker didnt blow up the Death Star it was a chain reaction....caused by a conveniently placed torpedo
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
this is from Ron D Moore:
http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/6952/ron87.txt&date=2007-07-27+08:45:16
<<When did constrution start for the Enterprise-E?>>
We never addressed this point, but my working assumption was that the E-E
had her keel laid sometime during TNG's last season and was probably going
to be given another name. When the E-D was destroyed, that Sovereign-class
ship was nearing completion and was then christened Enterprise. This same
sort of thing happened during WWII. After the carrier Yorktown was sunk at
Midway, the US Navy decided to rename a carrier then under construction
in honor of the fallen ship.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Everything I saw says that the sovreign project was a long term research project with the idea if in need the sovreign(tactical orient ship) could be built and launch quickly. And it was quite a few years between Generations and FC. thus you see the uniform change and Fc era ships. And since the E-E isn't the prototype I could see her made in a year.
Name them.
Ent-D Yamato Odyssey
During the Dominion War she had the best kill to death ratio. 0 deaths.
The Sovereign does not have 2 sets of shields that is fan fiction/speculation.
No she wasn't. Find me a canon source that says she was made to fight the Borg.
And no, her shots didn't. The FLEET that she was a part of could have done that without her being there so her contribution is a non factor.
24 High Power Phaser Banks
6 Quantum Tubes
(Since people here seem to think more automatically equals better/more powerful. Perhaps these numbers will "show" just how undergunned the Sovereign was to the Son'a Battleships.)
Isolytic weapons.
Actually it is very surprising that she ran out of ammo and power that quickly.
For a ship that was supposedly "made to fight the Borg" wouldn't you want a ship that could last longer than say... 2 or 3 minutes in a straight up fight?
Or have enough torpedo ammunition to be a threat past 45 some odd torps?
Even when the Scimitar wasn't cloaked the Ent E couldn't do anything to it.
And I'm saying that people have let the shiny factor get into their eyes to much.
The ship is impressive, but she is not the Battleship that the Galaxy class is.
Check out her performance in comparison to other ships shown on-screen and using that information you will see that she is out performed in the combat department by the Galaxy.
Aside from not being canon, you are talking about an assumption of one person.
Even if that person is Moore.
It also seems to ignore the naming rules of Star Fleet in that for some reason or another they name the first of the ships from that class after the class name itself.
So the first Sovereign off the line would have been the USS Sovereign itself.
the first ship was the USS Sovereign
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
you are comparing the actions of one ship in a show that ran for 7 seasons against a ship that appeared in 3 terrible to ok movies
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
theres a difference between constructing the ship, and the start of the project that engineered and designed the class. it does not take 20 years to assemble a galaxy class. the uss sovereign was proboly mostly constructed and was doing test flights by the time wolf 359 happens, but was far from ready to be commissioned and on active duty
Note I said original Galaxys. the original set inculed 6 gal hulls 3 comissioned. Galaxy, Yamato, E-D. Some say there was also Columbia and it was destroyed due to an engine flaw but i'll skip that one for now.
Yamato was first to go due to Iconian program. Oydessey is comissoned to replace her and being one of the spare hulls could be quickly finished and they tried a new bridge layout with her. She fought the dominion and considering she had no sheilds did well but a single bug ship got through her defenses and blew. Months later E-D goes down to a 20 year old BOP of a retired class. Again no sheilds and took some beating but the Duras sister had good aim, most of the shots on the engineering section and even a scraped a nacelle. do to plot riker doesn't unleash hell on the bop but in the end she is gone. So in about a decade all but the Galaxy and 2 spare hulls are destroyed. Starfleet had to rethink the class. the first answer was the Venture. Likely one of the other spare hulls but the added phaser strips to add defe nse among other not known changes but with war coming they couldn't do it to all the Galaxys. they need them out now. so we get the DW. A bare bones battle capable Galaxy with minor tech improve ments. Some hint at a renforced neck. But after the DW this ships were probably sent back to spacedock for final completetion and will likely be upgraded to Venture specs.
In the end while the Galaxy can be refitted for battle she was designed as an exploreer first. Sov was designed as a warships first but given enough to also do thisngs the Galaxy can do. Sov and Gal are oppisite sides of the same coin. and note Nemisis ammo problem was plot driven. Also note the FC fleet in FC l;asted much longer than Hansons fleet in Best of both worlds. the major difference was ship type.
359 the bulk of the fleet would havge been 23rd centruy classes with tech refits like Sratoga and Hansons flagships. we did have a handful of Ambassador and gal tech era ships but out of a fleet of 40 they were likely 10. and they only lasted minutes
FC. The bulk of these ships were produced in the last couple of years so the latest in fed tech with a handful of older ships like a Miranda. and they lasted hours for E-E to get there..
Dw was not really a planned war so Starfleet was not fully ready and early losses dictaded have older ships just so they have numbers. and with hundreds of Excels and Miranda's they would make up the bulk of the fleets. I would not be surprised in those 2 classes alone made up 50 percent of the fleet. but there numbers had to have been hit hard after the war. so more FC era ships would be built to replace them. However some Lakota variant Excels could have been made.
there was 6 total chassis made wile the uss galaxy was finishing its final trials, they only intended to fully build the first 3, and save the rest for later, for any number of reasons. if the yamato blew up because of a serious flaw, they would be pretty glad they held off building a bunch of biggest ever flawed ships.
my guess is that after the D first encountered the borg, the galaxy class went into MASS production. if they started much later then that, it would be hard to explain the 10 or 20 you can see at a time there in DS9. by the dominion war there was proboly 30 to 50 of them, maybe those last 20 were the striped down shells with nothing but what it needed to serve as a battleship. the rest that were already built, highly likely not to have been setup like the peace time enterprise D, and proboly striped of most none essentials too, and up armored on the neck and engineering hull.
70% of a galaxy class starship's interior space is modular, and hot swappable. its more customizable then the ships in sto! the galaxy was not designed to be an explorer to the exclusion of other things, the enterprise D was configured to be overwhelmingly an explorer, thats all. depending on how that interior space is used, it can be a full on battleship, or a flying research facility/city. thanks to the ingenious phaser array, laying a hugely powerful gun across a large amount of the surface and taking minimal interior space, the ship can have hugely powerful guns without taking up a ton of modular interior space.
there really isnt this 'venture refit' that galaxy physical model was only shown with those extra arrays because undoing the galaxy X bastardization wasn't so easy. you see the venture later without them, with the cgi switch, its basically retconed. those extra arrays are useless anyway. anything those small arrays could hit, one of the 2 huge main arrays could as well. and there was the other secondary hull arrays covering those fireing arcs too. totally useless additions best forgotten.
I say about 20 Galaxys in total during DW. And show me a picture of the Venture without the strips.
Which would translate into the Galaxy is capable of doing multi-roles. So why not make it in the same respect as the Vesta... a Multi-Mission Cruiser! The Odyssey should not be the three pack at all, Cryptic would have sold it better if it had been the Galaxy that was getting the glamour treatment.
It was 12 ships.
6 completed 6 broken down and put into storage.
Pure speculation on the Sovereign being designed as a warship or even being designed more for battle than exploration/peace. That is purely fan fiction.
There is nothing out there backed by canon that says the Sovereign was designed specifically for the Borg, with the Borg in mind, for combat over exploration or anything of the sort.
If you are going to claim that the ammo problem in Nemesis is plot driven then I can claim the same for the Enterprise D. The show was supposed to see its destruction, it was stupidity that claimed the BoP as the plot element to do so. Openly admitted even. Riker's total lack of anything in retaliation or self defense, even going to so far as to openly expose the most vulnerable part of the ship to the enemy...
I agree with the FC Fleet being able to last longer due to it being made up of newer ships.
But we also don't know how far out they actually engaged the Borg Cube or how large the Fleet was or how many losses they ended up taking.
Is it not those exact same 3 movies that have you and others saying that the Sovereign is the better ship?
All other fleet cruisers > galaxy. Please fix devs?
/thread?
Its one thing to move the skin type to a different type of ship, another to want to ramp up one class (Galaxy) because other ships can do something that they cannot. If they made it available as a skin type for other ships that'd be fine. I would argue against it being the same as the Sovy and other ships, the maneuverability should be worse than the small cruisers is.
because in every instance of ship switching the crew went to an either an equal or better ship
TOS ENT to TMP ENT = Better ship
TMP ENT to ENT-A = Equal ship
ENT-A to ENT-B = Better ship
ENT-B to ENT-C = Better ship
ENT-C to ENT-D = Better ship
If this is true then why isn't it that the E is better or equal to the D????
I dont think Picard would accept a ship that was weaker or not as powerful as the previous ship. Imagine if in this game you make lvl 30 and your only choice is a ship weaker than the one you had?
Geordi mentions that the E is the most advanced ship in the fleet. Is he only talking about the warp core or the transporters?
Don't they say the same thing about the D in TNG? Why is it if they say the D is the most advanced ship in the fleet at that time we all admit its the best ship but when they say it about the E it has to be denied?
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
You seem to like to throw the term "battleship" around easily around the Galaxy class. It was never a battleship, nor intended to be one. Battleships have one job, to blow up other ships, buildings and people. Even with "modular designs" the ship doesn't fit it, especially with a saucer section that is designed to separate and leave because it isn't tactically necessary. At least the Prometheus sections are designed to stick around in a fight.
Is this the same phaser array that leaves the ship after saucer separation?
Do you have their names? Including Columbia i count 4 inital launched ships with 4 in storage. Odyessy and Venture were among the spare hulls.
Look at the history of Starfleet. TOS through TMp era the ships were evenly balanced between peace and war. TNG era. they were at peace with Klingons and Rommies and no one else could go toe toe with them in a extended war. Thus you see designs lean more to the peace side. Intrepid was that last of these ships. Fc era ships lean for war as the time showed it. Thus any FC era ships IS more tacically oriented but still useful in peace time. thus as i have said Gal and Sov are tow sides of the same coin.
Picard isn't "choosing" his Captaincy based on the power of the ship vs his last.
It is his duty, and that is that. If his duty to the Fleet says that he is Captain of a Garbage Scow, than he is Captain of a Garbage Scow until told otherwise.
Advanced does not mean more powerful.
Look at the Combustion engine over the last decade. Several "advances" have been made to allow them to run more efficiently. Despite being more efficient, many of them are not more "powerful" than they have ever been, or in some cases even been in recent years.
Advanced denotes more in the way the development of the tech has been carried out and implemented rather than in a way to exhibit strength.
The term battleship has only been used in conjunction with the Galaxy class.
In 3 separate episodes the ship has been referred to as a Battleship.
Something that no other ship has been labeled as in Star Fleet.
There were 6 according to Roddenberry.
USS Galaxy
USS Enterprise D
USS Yamato
USS Odyssey
USS Venture
USS Challenger (Appears in Voyager at the end)
These 6 are believed to be the original 6.
Several other ships are noted on screen that also belong to the Galaxy Class.
During the TNG era they were not at peace.
There were still tensions with the Klingons. War had just concluded with the Cardassians.
Conflicts with the Tzenthki, Tholians and another race whoms name escapes me at the moment, had all been in recent conflict with the Federation. So the era in which the Galaxy entered and was constructed during was a fairly turbulent one.
Additionally the Galaxy has been mentioned as being a mobile starbase for the purposes of showing the flag and defending against encroachment by hostile powers.
It was also stated that Commodore Santin was afraid that fielding a ship with such destructive capabilities might serve as a provocation to the Federation's enemies. (FASA RPG module: Star Trek: The Next Generation Officer's Manual)
why is it when the 'D' is described as the most advance ship it is better than every thing but when the same thing is said about the 'E' we have to make excuses for it
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Odyssey, Venture, and Challenger I'll grant be of the originaly group but originally as the spare hulls. And when the Yamato, and ED went down Odyssey, and Likly Challenger launched to replace them. Then Oydssey went down and we have Venture. So in the end still total of 6 hulls for first run and as time changed Starfleet started mass production and we get the DW era of Galaxys.
Um by the time the Galaxy was launch they were in a strong Alliance with the Klingons. They had peace and haven't heard from the Rommies in decades. and the cardassian war like most of the others mention were more skirmish than actual war. the the carddie war likely as long as the first gulf war. and still could have been over before Galaxy launch. we don't know when the carddie war was. O'brian could have just came out of the academy when it happened. And Captain maxwell was old enough to be a veteran captain at the time. It was the mentality of the fleet that betrayed the Galaxy. They had no major threat at the time. Only after the Galaxy was launch did they encounter the borg and the dominion. THe early TNG era was essentually the Carter years for the fleet and the 2370's was the Regan years.