Prime example is, while the federation was at piece and had no plans for war. The GCS was made and became the flagship, the romulans who always build their ships for a future fight built the D'D. Both the GCS and the D'D in TNG were considered equals and a fight between them would end in both ships being destroyed.
the galaxy was created in a period of several wars taking place. several tzenkethy wars, a cardasian war that dragged on hot and cold for its entire development, a war with the tholians that resulted in the loss of a space dock style starbase, and other more minor conflicts.
there's no indication at all that the galaxy wasn't built to serve as a battleship when needed, especially when specifically configured as one, and with the standard armament it came with. it was made flexible enough to be fit to the hilt with science labs and luxury apartments though, as you saw on the enterprise, but even with these things dragging on its tactical abilities, only a d'deridex was a match for them.
funny how the cardasian war wrapped up right quick after galaxy and nebula started hitting the field, and how good the Phoenix and Benjamin Maxwell were at killing cardasians. i bet at least 3 of those original 6 galaxy class weren't dinking around with civilian crews at that time, but cutting a swath through the cardasians. i can only figure that war dragged on so long because the federation was fighting it almost exclusively excelsior vs galor, and all the ambassador class were off on actual deep space missions. that stalemate caused by that stale ship class is most likely what inspired things like the saber, steamrunner, norway, akira and sovereign. borg and dominion might have added urgency to the development and production, but their existence needed to be inspired much earlier for them to role out when they did.
When looking at Star Trek TV & Movies, I really don't get how people throw in this idea that Starfleet designs its ships for diplomacy & exploration first and foremost in their capability. All of their designs are combat capable and for their respective sizes and classes, can take care of themselves. This most definitely is true with their Cruisers and larger, heavier designs.
The simple reason is this: The Federation, among the major powers of the Alpha & Beta Quadrants is the largest single political and military entity. When you become a major player in anything, you're going to be involved in a lot of things that you may or may not want to be a part of. And for the Federation, that means war. All throughout the history of the Federation it's found itself involved in conflict. The basis of its foundation was due to conflict. From ENT era, to TOS, TNG, DS9, the associated movies, you hear of so, so many conflicts that the Federation has been involved in. Hell, there was a portion when its 2 biggest rivals, the Klingons & Romulans, actually formed an alliance for a while.
Because of this, I never can see a period where Starfleet pushes its designs without the capability for being a warship, except maybe for a Medical ship or something like that, a pure support ship. Too many times Starfleet has found itself called on by the Federation to fight for and defend her. For their ships not to be considered warships is a bit short sighted, even for the happy, touchie-feelie-good theme of TNG. Starfleet has been called upon too many times to fight something.
As for the Galaxy, a great moment for the class was the Dominion War and the battles being shown. One pitched battle where the lines close in and the shooting starts. The "Galaxy Wing" was subsequently called in for the push and they start clearing the trash.
@warmaker001b, dontdrunkimshoot and everyone agreeing them
I 100% agree with you.
But how comes that the devs don't know or care about all that?
They claim they watch all relevant episodes before creating something. Why have they no clue about the Galaxy Class?
Or do they? but they just don't care, because it doesn't fit into their idea of how Star Trek has supposed to be? (you know Starfleet being more like the Peacekeepers from Farscape and so on)
I just wonder what causes such a bizarre understanding of Star Trek as the devs show it.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
as far as how old the ship is too, a starship is not an Iphone, its a shell, and basically everything in it can be refit and replaced. hell, they probably do most of that kind of work with industrial transporters. untill the galaxy class space frame is deemed so outdated and primative its not fit to hold a crew, it will be a very large, very upgradeable platform. this goes for basically any other design too, and we see this proven correct by all the excelcior class in the TNG era
@warmaker001b, dontdrunkimshoot and everyone agreeing them
I 100% agree with you.
But how comes that the devs don't know or care about all that?
They claim they watch all relevant episodes before creating something. Why have they no clue about the Galaxy Class?
Or do they? but they just don't care, because it doesn't fit into their idea of how Star Trek has supposed to be? (you know Starfleet being more like the Peacekeepers from Farscape and so on)
I just wonder what causes such a bizarre understanding of Star Trek as the devs show it.
I dunno.
The Galaxy is clearly aimed towards being the "Tank Class" in a Trinity style system when that system was abolished by Cryptic long ago by their own design.
I'm thinking all the old KDF & Federation ships need a balance pass or allow more degrees of flexibility. Like giving a universal station or two to the old ships.
On the Galaxy again, I tend to think of her as a large, extremely tough ship that can handle a lot of functions. We see it take a pounding. We see it have good firepower. We see it do a lot of fancy "science-y" things. It moves far, far better onscreen than what it actually does in STO.
You guys keep talking about these wars. At most i think the bulk of them were Desert Storm like in duraation with the Cardassian being the longest. As such the Galaxy design peace first, battle second. otherwise why have families on board. This doesn't mean she isn't capable of functioning as a battleship but that's a secondary role. Thus why the Sovereign was made. She is the opposite of the Galaxy.
the galaxy was created in a period of several wars taking place. several tzenkethy wars, a cardasian war that dragged on hot and cold for its entire development, a war with the tholians that resulted in the loss of a space dock style starbase, and other more minor conflicts.
Wait, a Tholian war? I don't remember hearing about this conflict. I'm familiar with the Cardassian conflict and the Tzenkethi conflict, but I never heard anything about a Tholian conflict.
Wait, a Tholian war? I don't remember hearing about this conflict. I'm familiar with the Cardassian conflict and the Tzenkethi conflict, but I never heard anything about a Tholian conflict.
the starbase i mentioned, riker's dad was the only survivor of that particular battle. i dont recall it being explicitly called a war, but you don't just destroy a starbase without there being a state of war at some stage.
if further evidence the galaxy was NOT created in a piece time, and the ships like the excelsior WERE, have a look here.
You guys keep talking about these wars. At most i think the bulk of them were Desert Storm like in duraation with the Cardassian being the longest. As such the Galaxy design peace first, battle second. otherwise why have families on board. This doesn't mean she isn't capable of functioning as a battleship but that's a secondary role. Thus why the Sovereign was made. She is the opposite of the Galaxy.
this cardasian war was multi decade, sisco spoke of serving in the LAST tzenkethy war. regardless if these things happened or not, no starfleet vessel, especially not the galaxy being the largest and most powerful ever, were launched underguned. the sovereign is a large heaver cruiser, it is not a replacement or even in the weight class of the galaxy.
You guys keep talking about these wars. At most i think the bulk of them were Desert Storm like in duraation with the Cardassian being the longest. As such the Galaxy design peace first, battle second. otherwise why have families on board. This doesn't mean she isn't capable of functioning as a battleship but that's a secondary role. Thus why the Sovereign was made. She is the opposite of the Galaxy.
Repeated wars with the Klingon Empire, whether they were full fledge "Hot" all out wars, or "Cold War" style as seen in the TOS era movies. In the "Cold War" style, which constituted most of Fed-Klingon history, they may not have been in a declared war, but there's enough skirmishes to keep every captain on both sides on their toes. I mean, in Search For Spock, both powers were not at war, yet Kruge took his Bird of Prey into Federation territory in his bid to get the Genesis project for himself. He even attacked and destroyed 1 Starfleet vessel and was trying to destroy another. And both the Federation & Klingon Empire were not at war.
Even during the time of the Federation-Klingon alliance, it took considerable effort to preserve the alliance. Hell, it was even outright broken in DS9 just prior to the Dominion War and it got to a point the Klingons attacked DS9. That ended and the peace and later the alliance was preserved.
The Federation had to go through some stupid **** to try to remain at least on decent terms with the Klingon Empire.
The Romulans and Federation had some very nasty fighting. In the TOS episode "Balance of Terror," there was a war between the two powers roughly 100 years before the events of the episode. The fighting was bloody and no quarter was given. Potential for war renewing between both groups was a major, major concern for Kirk, yet he was trying his best to catch the Romulan BOP. Anyways, you even had 1 Enterprise bridge officer having very aggressive tones with the Romulans. Which were justified. The Romulans DID break the tenets of the longstanding Peace Treaty and attacked Federation outposts on their own side of the Neutral Zone, and were trying to get away with it. He had also lost a relative from that war from long ago, yet his blood boiled when it came to anything related to the Romulans.
Even outside the events from TOS, the Romulans have been very aggressive with the Federation.
- Repeated incursions into Federation space and being a sore spot for Picard.
- Constantly luring the Enterprise into the Neutral Zone or better yet, try to get them into Romulan Space and then nailing her, painting her as a violator of the Peace Treaty.
- Underhandedly supporting the House of Duras in their bid for the Chancellor seat, which would make the Klingons a bit more open to the Romulans (big maybe, IMO) but quite possibly more aggressive towards the Federation. Picard had to deal with this dire threat to the alliance and the Federation.
- How many dirty tricks did the Federation, Picard, and the crew of the Enterprise had to deal with in regards to the Romulans just in TNG alone? It's like, beyond count.
But by the time of the TNG series, the most recent major conflict the Federation had was with the Cardassians.
And throughout the Star Trek IP, you have had Starfleet characters with burning resentment towards their rivals and foes. Kirk with his hatred of the Klingons for the death of his son, which he only got over that grudge only from the events of "Undiscovered Country." His bridge officer I referred to earlier, who wasn't even alive during the last Fed-Rom War, but hated the Romulans since he lost family from that war to the Romulans. You had Captain Maxwell of the USS Phoenix (Nebula-class) in TNG, who was waging his own personal war and vendetta with the Cardassians, convinced that they were breaking the terms of the peace treaty and preparing their forces in the area for war with the Federation. Maxwell lost his family to the Cardassians during the war and had no love for the Cardassians. As messed up as Capt Maxwell's actions were and being a loose cannon, he was completely right about the Cardassians, and Picard vowed afterwards that the Federation would be keeping a closer eye on them.
And on top of all this, you had various events that could cause the loss of a Starfleet vessel and its crew. Some by accident, some by malicious intent, some because it was due to something they had no information about. Exploration or not, Starfleet sends its ships capable for war if need be. They may not be outfitted on the same levels of high tech gear like the USS Enterprise-D/E, USS Defiant, but their ships are ready to fight, even if they were old, overworked, underpowered vessels like Picard's USS Stargazer.
The Galaxy is clearly aimed towards being the "Tank Class" in a Trinity style system when that system was abolished by Cryptic long ago by their own design.
I'm thinking all the old KDF & Federation ships need a balance pass or allow more degrees of flexibility. Like giving a universal station or two to the old ships.
On the Galaxy again, I tend to think of her as a large, extremely tough ship that can handle a lot of functions. We see it take a pounding. We see it have good firepower. We see it do a lot of fancy "science-y" things. It moves far, far better onscreen than what it actually does in STO.
Doesn't explain how a Advanced Heavy Cruiser Retrofit a ship that was built before the galaxy class can out performed it as well as the sovereign class as well in the game. By the way your wrong about the galaxy class being a tank like ship or a ship just for families while being combat second. It was used in wars like the dominion war and can be retrofitted for combat anytime.
They should have 3 version of the galaxy class if people want it for tanking use the current fleet version. If they want it for science give it a LT commander science console and change the ensign to universal and give its console lay out such as 4 eng 4 science and 2 tac. If a player wants tac galaxy class do the same thing as the science one but change it to tac and give it a console lay out of 4 eng, 4 tac and 2 science.
the starbase i mentioned, riker's dad was the only survivor of that particular battle. i dont recall it being explicitly called a war, but you don't just destroy a starbase without there being a state of war at some stage.
if further evidence the galaxy was NOT created in a piece time, and the ships like the excelsior WERE, have a look here.
this cardasian war was multi decade, sisco spoke of serving in the LAST tzenkethy war. regardless if these things happened or not, no starfleet vessel, especially not the galaxy being the largest and most powerful ever, were launched underguned. the sovereign is a large heaver cruiser, it is not a replacement or even in the weight class of the galaxy.
Repeated wars with the Klingon Empire, whether they were full fledge "Hot" all out wars, or "Cold War" style as seen in the TOS era movies. In the "Cold War" style, which constituted most of Fed-Klingon history, they may not have been in a declared war, but there's enough skirmishes to keep every captain on both sides on their toes. I mean, in Search For Spock, both powers were not at war, yet Kruge took his Bird of Prey into Federation territory in his bid to get the Genesis project for himself. He even attacked and destroyed 1 Starfleet vessel and was trying to destroy another. And both the Federation & Klingon Empire were not at war.
Even during the time of the Federation-Klingon alliance, it took considerable effort to preserve the alliance. Hell, it was even outright broken in DS9 just prior to the Dominion War and it got to a point the Klingons attacked DS9. That ended and the peace and later the alliance was preserved.
The Federation had to go through some stupid **** to try to remain at least on decent terms with the Klingon Empire.
The Romulans and Federation had some very nasty fighting. In the TOS episode "Balance of Terror," there was a war between the two powers roughly 100 years before the events of the episode. The fighting was bloody and no quarter was given. Potential for war renewing between both groups was a major, major concern for Kirk, yet he was trying his best to catch the Romulan BOP. Anyways, you even had 1 Enterprise bridge officer having very aggressive tones with the Romulans. Which were justified. The Romulans DID break the tenets of the longstanding Peace Treaty and attacked Federation outposts on their own side of the Neutral Zone, and were trying to get away with it. He had also lost a relative from that war from long ago, yet his blood boiled when it came to anything related to the Romulans.
Even outside the events from TOS, the Romulans have been very aggressive with the Federation.
- Repeated incursions into Federation space and being a sore spot for Picard.
- Constantly luring the Enterprise into the Neutral Zone or better yet, try to get them into Romulan Space and then nailing her, painting her as a violator of the Peace Treaty.
- Underhandedly supporting the House of Duras in their bid for the Chancellor seat, which would make the Klingons a bit more open to the Romulans (big maybe, IMO) but quite possibly more aggressive towards the Federation. Picard had to deal with this dire threat to the alliance and the Federation.
- How many dirty tricks did the Federation, Picard, and the crew of the Enterprise had to deal with in regards to the Romulans just in TNG alone? It's like, beyond count.
But by the time of the TNG series, the most recent major conflict the Federation had was with the Cardassians.
And throughout the Star Trek IP, you have had Starfleet characters with burning resentment towards their rivals and foes. Kirk with his hatred of the Klingons for the death of his son, which he only got over that grudge only from the events of "Undiscovered Country." His bridge officer I referred to earlier, who wasn't even alive during the last Fed-Rom War, but hated the Romulans since he lost family from that war to the Romulans. You had Captain Maxwell of the USS Phoenix (Nebula-class) in TNG, who was waging his own personal war and vendetta with the Cardassians, convinced that they were breaking the terms of the peace treaty and preparing their forces in the area for war with the Federation. Maxwell lost his family to the Cardassians during the war and had no love for the Cardassians. As messed up as Capt Maxwell's actions were and being a loose cannon, he was completely right about the Cardassians, and Picard vowed afterwards that the Federation would be keeping a closer eye on them.
And on top of all this, you had various events that could cause the loss of a Starfleet vessel and its crew. Some by accident, some by malicious intent, some because it was due to something they had no information about. Exploration or not, Starfleet sends its ships capable for war if need be. They may not be outfitted on the same levels of high tech gear like the USS Enterprise-D/E, USS Defiant, but their ships are ready to fight, even if they were old, overworked, underpowered vessels like Picard's USS Stargazer.
Again all those wars could have been Gulf War like being short. Even the Cardassian one. The biggest point is the fact the first Galaxys were launch with FAMILIES onboard the first ever in starfleet history. Why do that if you have had multiple long conflicts. YOU DON'T so most of the time of the last 20 years to the launch of the E-D was relative piece with the Cardassian War being the big one and not much is known about that one except that Obrien and maxwell fought in it and maxwell lost his family and ended before he got the Phoenix and likely ended before TNG got started.
And the galaxy IS undergunned for her size. For again designed for Exploration first Combat second. They Yesterday's E-D is likely much stronger then the prime E-D because she was designed for combat. Then we see the Venture refit with increased her firepower. In Stock form the Galaxy is undergunned FOR HER SIZE but she trades that versitility. She can do ANYTHING. thus why i say the best fix for the GAl R in game in all universal BO
(...) For again designed for Exploration first Combat second(...)
What does this even mean? Why do you think a ship that is meant to face planet-eating horrors lurking in the unknown depths of deep space on it's own is in any way shape or form undergunned? Half the creatures the Enterprise encountered during TNG would laugh at anything the Klingons, Dominion, Cardassians or Romulans come up with and wipe out their civilization with an wink of an eye. How do you assume that this form of Exploration is less dangerous than reggular ship-on-ship combat?
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
What does this even mean? Why do you think a ship that is meant to face planet-eating horrors lurking in the unknown depths of deep space on it's own is in any way shape or form undergunned? Half the creatures the Enterprise encountered during TNG would laugh at anything the Klingons, Dominion, Cardassians or Romulans come up with and wipe out their civilization with an wink of an eye. How do you assume that this form of Exploration is less dangerous than reggular ship-on-ship combat?
Actually the Galaxy is under armed. I mean had a lot of phaser arrays and torpedo launchers, but most times against ships her own size, she barely breaks even most times.
I mean only reason Enterprise survived was plot armor. I mean good grief eventhough the Duras sisters had that edge with the shield frequency, the Enterprise couldn't punch through the shields of an old B'rel BoP in a few broadsides?
Gimme a break.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Actually the Galaxy is under armed. I mean had a lot of phaser arrays and torpedo launchers, but most times against ships her own size, she barely breaks even most times.
I mean only reason Enterprise survived was plot armor. I mean good grief eventhough the Duras sisters had that edge with the shield frequency, the Enterprise couldn't punch through the shields of an old B'rel BoP in a few broadsides?
Gimme a break.
Why is the Generations scene always considered peak performance and everything shown in TNG is either ignored or shrugged off? I can't defend the Generations scene, I have no explanation why they stopped fighting or why they fired such a low powered beam, but this is hardly an indication for lacking firepower cosnidering everything shown in TNG and beyond.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Again all those wars could have been Gulf War like being short. Even the Cardassian one. The biggest point is the fact the first Galaxys were launch with FAMILIES onboard the first ever in starfleet history. Why do that if you have had multiple long conflicts. YOU DON'T so most of the time of the last 20 years to the launch of the E-D was relative piece with the Cardassian War being the big one and not much is known about that one except that Obrien and maxwell fought in it and maxwell lost his family and ended before he got the Phoenix and likely ended before TNG got started.
And the galaxy IS undergunned for her size. For again designed for Exploration first Combat second. They Yesterday's E-D is likely much stronger then the prime E-D because she was designed for combat. Then we see the Venture refit with increased her firepower. In Stock form the Galaxy is undergunned FOR HER SIZE but she trades that versitility. She can do ANYTHING. thus why i say the best fix for the GAl R in game in all universal BO
While i do not fully agree with you, i think it gave me an idea.
I think it's pretty unlikely that Cryptic is going to rework the G-R, especially since they made their faux 3 Pack.
So what about a Yesterdays Enterprise Galaxy?
That ship features various differences compared to the prime universe GCS.
2000 Crew, Enterprise being the first GCS ship (unlike the prime universe Enterprise, which was the third GCS), Shield grid 2x as strong as a Ambassador Class (whatever that may mean in STO terms), different Bridge and other interiors, much higher emphasis on tactical aspect IMO.
So what would that mean if they'd release such a ship to STO?
As we saw , it wasn't very maneuverable (despite the technical limitations of the early 90's). I think that ship should be a behemoth compared to the regular Galaxy Class.
Maybe a lower turnrate but much stronger hull. More energy for weapons and shields and a much more versatile BOFF layout. (At least a Lt. Cmrd universal IMO)
Maybe something like the proposed GCS console set, Dontdrunk once posted.
By releasing such a ship, Cryptics devs could still have their toothless boring G-R in STO.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Its simple why in generation the Ent D got beat down on by a bop. If you can penetrate the shields of a ship and pepper it with photon torpedos its going to be on the defensive. And for as why the Ent D didnt rail the bop, it took the first hit and it was a nasty one. Several shots later its warpcore was overloading, and leaking plasma.
But mainly, the writers wanted the Ent D down so it was going down no matter what. Just like how the Defiant, ran through the battle field blasting everything in DS9 and didnt get wtfstomped. Plot armor goes both ways, either it saves you or it kills you.
And keep in mind that tv show budgets effected the writing and scenes very very much. In several scenes we see the Ent D move fast and agile, so just cause it doesnt do that in every battle doesnt mean its big and slow.
And just cause it doesn't vaporize everything doesn't mean that its weak, in several shots on the shows it takes down ships quickly. The movement of the galaxy is about right in this game with some fleet rcs consoles.
The fire power is laughably off as well as its science capabilities. The Ambassadors layout is closer to the Ent D, then the Galaxy R is. But the D'd layout is bang on for the G-R. Right mix of eng, tac, and sci. So Im going for something close to the Fleet D'd layout, or bust.
Comments
the galaxy was created in a period of several wars taking place. several tzenkethy wars, a cardasian war that dragged on hot and cold for its entire development, a war with the tholians that resulted in the loss of a space dock style starbase, and other more minor conflicts.
there's no indication at all that the galaxy wasn't built to serve as a battleship when needed, especially when specifically configured as one, and with the standard armament it came with. it was made flexible enough to be fit to the hilt with science labs and luxury apartments though, as you saw on the enterprise, but even with these things dragging on its tactical abilities, only a d'deridex was a match for them.
funny how the cardasian war wrapped up right quick after galaxy and nebula started hitting the field, and how good the Phoenix and Benjamin Maxwell were at killing cardasians. i bet at least 3 of those original 6 galaxy class weren't dinking around with civilian crews at that time, but cutting a swath through the cardasians. i can only figure that war dragged on so long because the federation was fighting it almost exclusively excelsior vs galor, and all the ambassador class were off on actual deep space missions. that stalemate caused by that stale ship class is most likely what inspired things like the saber, steamrunner, norway, akira and sovereign. borg and dominion might have added urgency to the development and production, but their existence needed to be inspired much earlier for them to role out when they did.
The simple reason is this: The Federation, among the major powers of the Alpha & Beta Quadrants is the largest single political and military entity. When you become a major player in anything, you're going to be involved in a lot of things that you may or may not want to be a part of. And for the Federation, that means war. All throughout the history of the Federation it's found itself involved in conflict. The basis of its foundation was due to conflict. From ENT era, to TOS, TNG, DS9, the associated movies, you hear of so, so many conflicts that the Federation has been involved in. Hell, there was a portion when its 2 biggest rivals, the Klingons & Romulans, actually formed an alliance for a while.
Because of this, I never can see a period where Starfleet pushes its designs without the capability for being a warship, except maybe for a Medical ship or something like that, a pure support ship. Too many times Starfleet has found itself called on by the Federation to fight for and defend her. For their ships not to be considered warships is a bit short sighted, even for the happy, touchie-feelie-good theme of TNG. Starfleet has been called upon too many times to fight something.
As for the Galaxy, a great moment for the class was the Dominion War and the battles being shown. One pitched battle where the lines close in and the shooting starts. The "Galaxy Wing" was subsequently called in for the push and they start clearing the trash.
I 100% agree with you.
But how comes that the devs don't know or care about all that?
They claim they watch all relevant episodes before creating something. Why have they no clue about the Galaxy Class?
Or do they? but they just don't care, because it doesn't fit into their idea of how Star Trek has supposed to be? (you know Starfleet being more like the Peacekeepers from Farscape and so on)
I just wonder what causes such a bizarre understanding of Star Trek as the devs show it.
I dunno.
The Galaxy is clearly aimed towards being the "Tank Class" in a Trinity style system when that system was abolished by Cryptic long ago by their own design.
I'm thinking all the old KDF & Federation ships need a balance pass or allow more degrees of flexibility. Like giving a universal station or two to the old ships.
On the Galaxy again, I tend to think of her as a large, extremely tough ship that can handle a lot of functions. We see it take a pounding. We see it have good firepower. We see it do a lot of fancy "science-y" things. It moves far, far better onscreen than what it actually does in STO.
the starbase i mentioned, riker's dad was the only survivor of that particular battle. i dont recall it being explicitly called a war, but you don't just destroy a starbase without there being a state of war at some stage.
if further evidence the galaxy was NOT created in a piece time, and the ships like the excelsior WERE, have a look here.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Conflicts
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Federation-Cardassian_War
this cardasian war was multi decade, sisco spoke of serving in the LAST tzenkethy war. regardless if these things happened or not, no starfleet vessel, especially not the galaxy being the largest and most powerful ever, were launched underguned. the sovereign is a large heaver cruiser, it is not a replacement or even in the weight class of the galaxy.
Repeated wars with the Klingon Empire, whether they were full fledge "Hot" all out wars, or "Cold War" style as seen in the TOS era movies. In the "Cold War" style, which constituted most of Fed-Klingon history, they may not have been in a declared war, but there's enough skirmishes to keep every captain on both sides on their toes. I mean, in Search For Spock, both powers were not at war, yet Kruge took his Bird of Prey into Federation territory in his bid to get the Genesis project for himself. He even attacked and destroyed 1 Starfleet vessel and was trying to destroy another. And both the Federation & Klingon Empire were not at war.
Even during the time of the Federation-Klingon alliance, it took considerable effort to preserve the alliance. Hell, it was even outright broken in DS9 just prior to the Dominion War and it got to a point the Klingons attacked DS9. That ended and the peace and later the alliance was preserved.
The Federation had to go through some stupid **** to try to remain at least on decent terms with the Klingon Empire.
The Romulans and Federation had some very nasty fighting. In the TOS episode "Balance of Terror," there was a war between the two powers roughly 100 years before the events of the episode. The fighting was bloody and no quarter was given. Potential for war renewing between both groups was a major, major concern for Kirk, yet he was trying his best to catch the Romulan BOP. Anyways, you even had 1 Enterprise bridge officer having very aggressive tones with the Romulans. Which were justified. The Romulans DID break the tenets of the longstanding Peace Treaty and attacked Federation outposts on their own side of the Neutral Zone, and were trying to get away with it. He had also lost a relative from that war from long ago, yet his blood boiled when it came to anything related to the Romulans.
Even outside the events from TOS, the Romulans have been very aggressive with the Federation.
- Repeated incursions into Federation space and being a sore spot for Picard.
- Constantly luring the Enterprise into the Neutral Zone or better yet, try to get them into Romulan Space and then nailing her, painting her as a violator of the Peace Treaty.
- Underhandedly supporting the House of Duras in their bid for the Chancellor seat, which would make the Klingons a bit more open to the Romulans (big maybe, IMO) but quite possibly more aggressive towards the Federation. Picard had to deal with this dire threat to the alliance and the Federation.
- How many dirty tricks did the Federation, Picard, and the crew of the Enterprise had to deal with in regards to the Romulans just in TNG alone? It's like, beyond count.
But by the time of the TNG series, the most recent major conflict the Federation had was with the Cardassians.
And throughout the Star Trek IP, you have had Starfleet characters with burning resentment towards their rivals and foes. Kirk with his hatred of the Klingons for the death of his son, which he only got over that grudge only from the events of "Undiscovered Country." His bridge officer I referred to earlier, who wasn't even alive during the last Fed-Rom War, but hated the Romulans since he lost family from that war to the Romulans. You had Captain Maxwell of the USS Phoenix (Nebula-class) in TNG, who was waging his own personal war and vendetta with the Cardassians, convinced that they were breaking the terms of the peace treaty and preparing their forces in the area for war with the Federation. Maxwell lost his family to the Cardassians during the war and had no love for the Cardassians. As messed up as Capt Maxwell's actions were and being a loose cannon, he was completely right about the Cardassians, and Picard vowed afterwards that the Federation would be keeping a closer eye on them.
And on top of all this, you had various events that could cause the loss of a Starfleet vessel and its crew. Some by accident, some by malicious intent, some because it was due to something they had no information about. Exploration or not, Starfleet sends its ships capable for war if need be. They may not be outfitted on the same levels of high tech gear like the USS Enterprise-D/E, USS Defiant, but their ships are ready to fight, even if they were old, overworked, underpowered vessels like Picard's USS Stargazer.
Doesn't explain how a Advanced Heavy Cruiser Retrofit a ship that was built before the galaxy class can out performed it as well as the sovereign class as well in the game. By the way your wrong about the galaxy class being a tank like ship or a ship just for families while being combat second. It was used in wars like the dominion war and can be retrofitted for combat anytime.
Again all those wars could have been Gulf War like being short. Even the Cardassian one. The biggest point is the fact the first Galaxys were launch with FAMILIES onboard the first ever in starfleet history. Why do that if you have had multiple long conflicts. YOU DON'T so most of the time of the last 20 years to the launch of the E-D was relative piece with the Cardassian War being the big one and not much is known about that one except that Obrien and maxwell fought in it and maxwell lost his family and ended before he got the Phoenix and likely ended before TNG got started.
And the galaxy IS undergunned for her size. For again designed for Exploration first Combat second. They Yesterday's E-D is likely much stronger then the prime E-D because she was designed for combat. Then we see the Venture refit with increased her firepower. In Stock form the Galaxy is undergunned FOR HER SIZE but she trades that versitility. She can do ANYTHING. thus why i say the best fix for the GAl R in game in all universal BO
What does this even mean? Why do you think a ship that is meant to face planet-eating horrors lurking in the unknown depths of deep space on it's own is in any way shape or form undergunned? Half the creatures the Enterprise encountered during TNG would laugh at anything the Klingons, Dominion, Cardassians or Romulans come up with and wipe out their civilization with an wink of an eye. How do you assume that this form of Exploration is less dangerous than reggular ship-on-ship combat?
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*facepalm*
*double facepalm*
*tripple facepalm combo*
That is all.
Actually the Galaxy is under armed. I mean had a lot of phaser arrays and torpedo launchers, but most times against ships her own size, she barely breaks even most times.
I mean only reason Enterprise survived was plot armor. I mean good grief eventhough the Duras sisters had that edge with the shield frequency, the Enterprise couldn't punch through the shields of an old B'rel BoP in a few broadsides?
Gimme a break.
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Why is the Generations scene always considered peak performance and everything shown in TNG is either ignored or shrugged off?
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I think it's pretty unlikely that Cryptic is going to rework the G-R, especially since they made their faux 3 Pack.
So what about a Yesterdays Enterprise Galaxy?
That ship features various differences compared to the prime universe GCS.
2000 Crew, Enterprise being the first GCS ship (unlike the prime universe Enterprise, which was the third GCS), Shield grid 2x as strong as a Ambassador Class (whatever that may mean in STO terms), different Bridge and other interiors, much higher emphasis on tactical aspect IMO.
So what would that mean if they'd release such a ship to STO?
As we saw , it wasn't very maneuverable (despite the technical limitations of the early 90's). I think that ship should be a behemoth compared to the regular Galaxy Class.
Maybe a lower turnrate but much stronger hull. More energy for weapons and shields and a much more versatile BOFF layout. (At least a Lt. Cmrd universal IMO)
Maybe something like the proposed GCS console set, Dontdrunk once posted.
By releasing such a ship, Cryptics devs could still have their toothless boring G-R in STO.
But mainly, the writers wanted the Ent D down so it was going down no matter what. Just like how the Defiant, ran through the battle field blasting everything in DS9 and didnt get wtfstomped. Plot armor goes both ways, either it saves you or it kills you.
And keep in mind that tv show budgets effected the writing and scenes very very much. In several scenes we see the Ent D move fast and agile, so just cause it doesnt do that in every battle doesnt mean its big and slow.
And just cause it doesn't vaporize everything doesn't mean that its weak, in several shots on the shows it takes down ships quickly. The movement of the galaxy is about right in this game with some fleet rcs consoles.
The fire power is laughably off as well as its science capabilities. The Ambassadors layout is closer to the Ent D, then the Galaxy R is. But the D'd layout is bang on for the G-R. Right mix of eng, tac, and sci. So Im going for something close to the Fleet D'd layout, or bust.