people really need to get over the word battleship. its a term for a purely military vessel, but such a thing does not exist in any trek space ship. even klingon ships have science officers and scientific equipment. its a word closest to matching what these vessels are. i dont see anyone having a problem with ships being called cruisers, destroyers and frigates, those are just as purely military orientated as battleship is. it is a size based distinguished, its not about the ships role.
and the only reason the galaxy doesn't separate when its going into a fight is because 90% of its potential energy weapon firepower comes from the 2 main arrays. ive explained why they are the most powerful 100 times in this thread and sourced the information, i should not have to again. they are so much more powerful then any of the other arrays, that they never fire unless one of the 2 main arrays dont have line of sight on the target. or they are trying to hit a borg cube with as many frequencies as they can to try to damage it.
a separated galaxy seems to me to have about the combat potential of an ambassador class. the 2 longest arrays are about the size of the ambassador 6 longest. though its smaller and has much less crew and damage soak, its also got much more torpedo damage potential, and would be faster. thats when a sovereign can beat the galaxy, when its saucer is separated. even the Prometheus would have a good chance i imagine.
and the only reason the galaxy doesn't separate when its going into a fight is because 90% of its potential energy weapon firepower comes from the 2 main arrays. ive explained why they are the most powerful 100 times in this thread and sourced the information, i should not have to again. they are so much more powerful then any of the other arrays, that they never fire unless one of the 2 main arrays dont have line of sight on the target. or they are trying to hit a borg cube with as many frequencies as they can to try to damage it.
a separated galaxy seems to me to have about the combat potential of an ambassador class. the 2 longest arrays are about the size of the ambassador 6 longest. though its smaller and has much less crew and damage soak, its also got much more torpedo damage potential, and would be faster. thats when a sovereign can beat the galaxy, when its saucer is separated. even the Prometheus would have a good chance i imagine.
I must have missed that argument+proof. Do you know which page that is on?
As for separated combat. I'll have to take a look at the TNG Tech Manual again for the phasers, but it seems as though it really doesn't matter how long the phaser strips are in terms of damage output. Otherwise, Riker would have no need to separate the ship in TNG: "Best of Both Worlds, Pt II", as the whole ship could just sit there and tank, fire torpedoes and phasers, and the antimatter spread. Besides, when relieved of the extra power requirements of the saucer, there would be more free power available to the weapon systems on the Stardrive, including phaser emitters.
More tactically capable starships like the Sovereign and Prometheus would likely have a better chance of defeating a Galaxy-class when separated, but only because the ship doesn't have as much hull and shielding as when in "docked" configuration.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Who's to say she has less hull strength when split, that's just a game balance feature.
But i also agree that size of emitter doesn't matter in terms of power. The main arrays have a huge firing arc so that could be the reson. but split the same area is covered by the hidden phaser strip and the venterial phaser strips.
Amen! These Galaxy Fanboys clearly have some serious delusions of grandeur to think that the SAME 20 or so whiners constitute a "fringe movement".
Then again, maybe it IS a "fringe movement" much like the "Flat Earthers" who believe that the Earth is really flat. The "logical reasoning" by these Galaxy Fanbors is about the same.
no... i can't bielieve it.
i leave this thead for 1 week and you come sneak around without even warning me!!!:D
after all what we been trought together, how dare you!!:D:
but don't you worry, our fringe movement will make it, hehe.
we have already infiltrated cryptic and perfect world headquater.
we will modify the bo layout of all version of the galaxy.
we have a good plan for it, swapt it bo layout with the prometheus,yeah, not just copy it, but swapt it, what do you think about that, hm?
that is just the beguining of our mastepiece plan you known, we also planning to remove canon weaponerie in the game, and shield of the escort:D
yeah after all they don't need shield.;)
we will also put in place the galaxy class starship event: everyone in the game would have to fly the galaxy ship for 1 hours to honor the treatement this ship have been enduring since these 3 years.
during the event a recorded voice of dontdrunkimshoot will explain why the galaxy ship is the most powerfull ship in star trek universe and therefore in STO.
they will be subtitle for the deaf people don't worry.
2 new stf specifically made for this ship:
1) i kill a deathstar on my own with my galaxy
2) i eat 2 vger at breakfast every morning with my galaxy.
do you think we will stop with sto? hahaha, don't count on that!!!
we have already submitted to all government in the world the construction of real galaxy ship among other things like replace the statue of liberty with a galaxy ship model as well as the effel tower, yeah we thaught it will be better like this.
this post is to small to detail everything that we have think of so i ll stop here.
the galaxy fanboy will rules the planet and there nothing that you can do about it MWUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
once they get second generation saucer sep working on the galaxy, the venture costumes lower neck causing problems applying that to it, there will be a fleet galaxy X, and according to geko other changes. the reason nothing has changed yet is because that tech isn't ready. they want to introduce any changes with that new tech.
its going to be so funny when we do get what we want when that tech is finished. so funny. i'll have to rename my galaxy the USS lol @ polaronbeam1
<
THIS! hahahahaha, ho yeah i will have to do that exactly too, at least for one month, hehehe.
There are several plausible reasons for why DW era Galaxy-class starships had their saucers attached.
1) Existing Galaxy's might as well keep their saucer facilities attached. The large phaser arrays are also a benefit.
2) There are issues with crewing and the space available for crew in the Star drive. Sure they can work there, but is there space for 500 crew for months of service?
3) The shield grid may be weaker without the saucer attached. The saucer has a greater surface area, and surface area is used by starship shield grid systems to generate the shield bubble.
4) Problems with long-term warp. The ship is designed to be with a saucer attached for regular warp speed operations. Perhaps there are some fuel concerns with running the ship without the big wide saucer.
5) Troop transport. After all, AR 558 needs more troops. Got room in the Star drive?
6) Turn rate. We see Galaxy's with the saucer engines running all the time in DS9, as opposed to TNG. Perhaps it has something to do with sunlight thrust or required turn speed (although reduced mass from No-Saucer would make this redundant?)
7) Shuttle bay services. Just in case missions require the use of the very large hangar deck on the Saucer.
8) Command / Computing services. TNG Tech Manual says there are two computer cores in the saucer, compared to one on the Star drive. If the Galaxy class is in a command role, they might need the extra processing power separate from tactical and defensive systems.
Add to those:
The possibility that not all Galaxy class ships were constructed to have a saucer separation. Perhaps the second (and beyond) production runs might have just been revised into a one piece hull because Starfleet determined that saucer sep' wasn't as useful as they thought it would be.
The FX guys didn't want to spend more time, effort and money showing the Galaxy class with its saucers seperated because it was easier to use a full Galaxy hull than dealing with saucer and stardrive
people really need to get over the word battleship. its a term for a purely military vessel, but such a thing does not exist in any trek space ship. even klingon ships have science officers and scientific equipment. its a word closest to matching what these vessels are. i dont see anyone having a problem with ships being called cruisers, destroyers and frigates, those are just as purely military orientated as battleship is. it is a size based distinguished, its not about the ships role.
Klingons have science officers on their ships because they offer tactical benefits in battle. Its not too often that one could imagine a Neg'Var doing stellar cartography or sending landing parties to do botany research.
and the only reason the galaxy doesn't separate when its going into a fight is because 90% of its potential energy weapon firepower comes from the 2 main arrays. ive explained why they are the most powerful 100 times in this thread and sourced the information, i should not have to again. they are so much more powerful then any of the other arrays, that they never fire unless one of the 2 main arrays dont have line of sight on the target. or they are trying to hit a borg cube with as many frequencies as they can to try to damage it.
The reason why the Galaxy doesn't separate while going into a fight was the higher costs of film work (later CG work) needed to show it correctly in fighting sequences. The budgeting allowed it to only be sequenced in the most "dramatic" moments of the show and in the movies it was used as a goodbye salute to the Enterprise-D. The producers of later Star Trek shows/movies decided to not have "hero" ships with this function because of it. The Prometheus MVAM'ed in one episode and not shown again.
a separated galaxy seems to me to have about the combat potential of an ambassador class. the 2 longest arrays are about the size of the ambassador 6 longest. though its smaller and has much less crew and damage soak, its also got much more torpedo damage potential, and would be faster. thats when a sovereign can beat the galaxy, when its saucer is separated. even the Prometheus would have a good chance i imagine.
Honestly, we really don't know who would beat what separated or not, because it hasn't been shown in canon. Answer me this, if the Galaxy was such a great "battleship" and the most powerful ship in Starfleet, including during DS9 and shortly thereafter, why was the "flagship" of the Federation built on a Sovereign hull (by your standards an inferior ship) during a time of war? Why not recommission a Galaxy as the next Enterprise (as they did with the Enterprise-A) or designate another Galaxy as the Federation flagship?
Flagship is a designation given to many ships in the fleet not just 1. It has been speculated that there are between anywhere from 30 to 70 flagships of Starfleet. It's entirely possible that the sovereigns and galaxies were all flagships on top of a few other ships that belong to other ship classes.
actually flagship has two meanings
1) The ship of the admiral
2) The best ship in the fleet
Even the current US Navy uses the terms like this. I was stationed onboard USS CONSTELLATION CV-64...it was an aircraft carrier now decommissioned. In 1981 President Ronald Regan presented the ship with a presidential flag and declared the ship America's Flagship.
I believe number 2 is what the Star Fleet uses to declare their flagships...on numerous occasions the Enterprise is mentioned as the flagship...when not having any flag officers present.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I must have missed that argument+proof. Do you know which page that is on?
As for separated combat. I'll have to take a look at the TNG Tech Manual again for the phasers, but it seems as though it really doesn't matter how long the phaser strips are in terms of damage output. Otherwise, Riker would have no need to separate the ship in TNG: "Best of Both Worlds, Pt II", as the whole ship could just sit there and tank, fire torpedoes and phasers, and the antimatter spread. Besides, when relieved of the extra power requirements of the saucer, there would be more free power available to the weapon systems on the Stardrive, including phaser emitters.
More tactically capable starships like the Sovereign and Prometheus would likely have a better chance of defeating a Galaxy-class when separated, but only because the ship doesn't have as much hull and shielding as when in "docked" configuration.
ive explained it like every 3 or 4 pages. :rolleyes: here i go again
the dorsal main array, the longer one on top, has 200 independent emitters all lined up in a row. each emitter is a fully functioning weapon, with its own eps conduit, its own stored energy, and its own ability to fire a shot. this is true for every emitter in every phaser array in every ship with phaser arrays. not only can they all operate independently, but they can force couple, and pass their own stored energy down the array to a point were multiple emitters are used to fire a shot. thats that moving glow effect you see in the show, the energy of each one of those emitters passing their energy down to the selected fireing point. thus, the longer the array, the more powerful a ships best shot can be. some think the time it takes the charge to move across the array has something to do with output too, but to me it seems like it simply drains an emitter's stored energy, or it doesn't use the emitter. with 200 to chose from, you can pretty exactly dial in how strong you want the shot to be.
this is the most obvious explanation based on the charge effect you see in the show, and based on what the tech manual says about phaser arrays.
removing the warp core from that equation would not actually lower the potential damage of the main array per shot, it would just lower the rate of fire. the emitters would likely not be able to all be charged as quickly without the volume of plasma the core can create.
pound for pound, the sovereign is more tactical, but the galaxy has more then twice the number of pounds. ships that are less combat capable, like the sovereign and prometheus, do not have a chance of defeating a galaxy class. the sovereign's longest array isn't even half as long as the smaller of the 2 large galaxy arrays. since they came originally with more advanced emitters, its likely the sovereigns best shot is up to half as powerful as the galaxy's best shot. and the Prometheus's arrays are only about half or less as long as the sovereigns, spit balls compared to the galaxy.
the enterprise E was NEVER referred to as the flagship. the only time flagship was said in any of the movies, was when they commented saying the flagship had been destroyed, by the cube. if i was star fleet, and a ship crew got one of the galaxy class ships destroyed, an enterprise no less, because for some reason they did not use even 10% of the arsenal they had available, the last thing i would do is give them another galaxy class. they got the sovereign class enterprise E for the same reason kirk did not get the excelsior, both crews were just barely in starfleets good graces. the sovereign is an exceptional ship that can do exceptional things. in the future it will be the new face of starfleet. might as well make an enterprise out of one. total combat potential is not the measuring stick to them that it would be to us.
no... i can't bielieve it.
i leave this thead for 1 week and you come sneak around without even warning me!!!:D
after all what we been trought together, how dare you!!:D:
but don't you worry, our fringe movement will make it, hehe.
we have already infiltrated cryptic and perfect world headquater.
we will modify the bo layout of all version of the galaxy.
we have a good plan for it, swapt it bo layout with the prometheus,yeah, not just copy it, but swapt it, what do you think about that, hm?
that is just the beguining of our mastepiece plan you known, we also planning to remove canon weaponerie in the game, and shield of the escort:D
yeah after all they don't need shield.;)
we will also put in place the galaxy class starship event: everyone in the game would have to fly the galaxy ship for 1 hours to honor the treatement this ship have been enduring since these 3 years.
during the event a recorded voice of dontdrunkimshoot will explain why the galaxy ship is the most powerfull ship in star trek universe and therefore in STO.
they will be subtitle for the deaf people don't worry.
2 new stf specifically made for this ship:
1) i kill a deathstar on my own with my galaxy
2) i eat 2 vger at breakfast every morning with my galaxy.
do you think we will stop with sto? hahaha, don't count on that!!!
we have already submitted to all government in the world the construction of real galaxy ship among other things like replace the statue of liberty with a galaxy ship model as well as the effel tower, yeah we thaught it will be better like this.
this post is to small to detail everything that we have think of so i ll stop here.
the galaxy fanboy will rules the planet and there nothing that you can do about it MWUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
actually flagship has two meanings
1) The ship of the admiral
2) The best ship in the fleet
Even the current US Navy uses the terms like this. I was stationed onboard USS CONSTELLATION CV-64...it was an aircraft carrier now decommissioned. In 1981 President Ronald Regan presented the ship with a presidential flag and declared the ship America's Flagship.
I believe number 2 is what the Star Fleet uses to declare their flagships...on numerous occasions the Enterprise is mentioned as the flagship...when not having any flag officers present.
finaly someone who knowes what flagship means, as fellow navy it is nice to see someone here who actualy knows the navel terms they use +1
Flagship is a designation given to many ships in the fleet not just 1. It has been speculated that there are between anywhere from 30 to 70 flagships of Starfleet. It's entirely possible that the sovereigns and galaxies were all flagships on top of a few other ships that belong to other ship classes.
Actually, in several episodes (namely TNG), the Enterprise-D is mentioned as the Federation flagship, meaning the only one.
ive explained it like every 3 or 4 pages. :rolleyes: here i go again
the dorsal main array, the longer one on top, has 200 independent emitters all lined up in a row. each emitter is a fully functioning weapon, with its own eps conduit, its own stored energy, and its own ability to fire a shot. this is true for every emitter in every phaser array in every ship with phaser arrays. not only can they all operate independently, but they can force couple, and pass their own stored energy down the array to a point were multiple emitters are used to fire a shot. thats that moving glow effect you see in the show, the energy of each one of those emitters passing their energy down to the selected fireing point. thus, the longer the array, the more powerful a ships best shot can be. some think the time it takes the charge to move across the array has something to do with output too, but to me it seems like it simply drains an emitter's stored energy, or it doesn't use the emitter. with 200 to chose from, you can pretty exactly dial in how strong you want the shot to be.
this is the most obvious explanation based on the charge effect you see in the show, and based on what the tech manual says about phaser arrays.
removing the warp core from that equation would not actually lower the potential damage of the main array per shot, it would just lower the rate of fire. the emitters would likely not be able to all be charged as quickly without the volume of plasma the core can create.
pound for pound, the sovereign is more tactical, but the galaxy has more then twice the number of pounds. ships that are less combat capable, like the sovereign and prometheus, do not have a chance of defeating a galaxy class. the sovereign's longest array isn't even half as long as the smaller of the 2 large galaxy arrays. since they came originally with more advanced emitters, its likely the sovereigns best shot is up to half as powerful as the galaxy's best shot. and the Prometheus's arrays are only about half or less as long as the sovereigns, spit balls compared to the galaxy.
Have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe now, that in the twenty or so years since the Galaxy was developed that they have found a better way to phaser energy blasts? I understand that you are all about the size and everything, but even in our lowly 20th and 21st century, we have seen miniaturization of electronics and circuitry that requires less surface area to move energy from once place to another. Even in the 23rd-24th century "they have the technology" to improve on things and miniaturize them.
Also, when Starfleet is building and refitting ships during a time of war (such as DS9), why would they gimp their ships by not upgrading the ships to the vaunted "large galaxy arrays." I know if I was in Utopia Planetia or whatever other shipyard, I would be finding any way possible, duck tape all down the secondary hull and make crew take turns breathing included, to put the most powerful weapons I can on ships, especially new designs. The Sovereigns saucer essentially is a 90' twist of the Galaxy's. There is no reason why the Sovereign couldn't have equipped the array, even if they had to make the array two deep for the surface area, not to mention plastering one down each side of the secondary hull. If the Galaxy and her beams were that good, newer classes of ships wouldn't have been necessary and the next Enterprise would have been another Galaxy, but it wasn't was it?
I know, I know, the Galaxy is and always shall be the epitome of a "battleship" :rolleyes:
the enterprise E was NEVER referred to as the flagship. the only time flagship was said in any of the movies, was when they commented saying the flagship had been destroyed, by the cube. if i was star fleet, and a ship crew got one of the galaxy class ships destroyed, an enterprise no less, because for some reason they did not use even 10% of the arsenal they had available, the last thing i would do is give them another galaxy class. they got the sovereign class enterprise E for the same reason kirk did not get the excelsior, both crews were just barely in starfleets good graces. the sovereign is an exceptional ship that can do exceptional things. in the future it will be the new face of starfleet. might as well make an enterprise out of one. total combat potential is not the measuring stick to them that it would be to us.
And where was it canonically said that Picard and crew were "barely in Starfleets good graces"? The only time there was any possible connotation of that was when the Enterprise-E was ordered to stay away from the Borg cube incurision in First Contact, and that was because Picard had once been in the collective, not because that he wasn't in "good graces". If he or his crew were not in good graces, they wouldn't have been placed on a Starfleet cruiser, or possibly even space duty. The Enterprise surely would not have been placed in diplomatic duties contacting species that they wanted to enlist help with fighting the Dominion (Insurrection) and Riker surely would not have been given command of the Titan, especially since he was the officer in command of the "D" when she only "used 10% of her arsenal".
ive explained it like every 3 or 4 pages. :rolleyes: here i go again
the dorsal main array, the longer one on top, has 200 independent emitters all lined up in a row. each emitter is a fully functioning weapon, with its own eps conduit, its own stored energy, and its own ability to fire a shot. this is true for every emitter in every phaser array in every ship with phaser arrays. not only can they all operate independently, but they can force couple, and pass their own stored energy down the array to a point were multiple emitters are used to fire a shot. thats that moving glow effect you see in the show, the energy of each one of those emitters passing their energy down to the selected fireing point. thus, the longer the array, the more powerful a ships best shot can be. some think the time it takes the charge to move across the array has something to do with output too, but to me it seems like it simply drains an emitter's stored energy, or it doesn't use the emitter. with 200 to chose from, you can pretty exactly dial in how strong you want the shot to be.
this is the most obvious explanation based on the charge effect you see in the show, and based on what the tech manual says about phaser arrays.
removing the warp core from that equation would not actually lower the potential damage of the main array per shot, it would just lower the rate of fire. the emitters would likely not be able to all be charged as quickly without the volume of plasma the core can create.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Phaser_bank
In the 2270s, a new system was developed, tying the phasers directly into the main reactor. While increasing phaser power, it had the disadvantage of cutting off most of or all phaser power if the reactor was damaged. (Star Trek: The Motion Picture; Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan)
By the 24th century, the number of emitters in each bank had been increased to the point where they were laid out in long strips called phaser arrays. (Star Trek: The Next Generation) However, the term "phaser bank" was still used, particularly in reference to units with smaller numbers of emitters. (DS9: "The Maquis, Part I")
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Phaser_emitter
In the 2270s, phaser emitter designs had improved and the new design routed power directly from the warp engines, which increased their effectiveness and strength. The only drawback was that if an antimatter imbalance occurred, the phasers would be automatically cut off. (Star Trek: The Motion Picture)
The TNG Tech Manual also states a few things about the shipboard phasers (11.1):
The power level commanded by the system or voluntarily set by the responsible officer determines the relative proportion of protonic charge that will be created and pulse frequency in the final emitter stage...
Energy from all discharged segments passes directionally over neighboring segments due to force coupling, converging on the release point, where the beam will emerge and travel at c to the target. Narrow beams are created by rapid segment order firing; wider fan or cone beams result from slower firing rates. Wide beams are, of course, prone to marked power loss per unit area covered.
No mention of power in this quote, but it has significance later on.
In Separated Flight Mode, the Saucer Module is cut off from the main EPS, and it must then rely on increased fusion generator output to power the arrays. Recharge times can be maintained at [less than or equal to] 0.5 seconds, but firing endurance drops to <15 minutes at full power.
First, using both of these sources, it can be seen that the warp reactor in a Galaxy-class starship affects the power available, and thus power output via the 3-stage phaser beam preparation and firing sequence. It was specifically stated that when the saucer is separated, the output (endurance, or strength of the beam over time) is markedly decreased, but recharge rates are not affected.
Thus, it is warp power, transferred via the EPS grid to the 3-stage phaser arrays, that determines the output of said arrays. Length of the array has no impact other than the ability to vary the type of shots fired.
This may be why the saucer is usually kept attached; in the event that a wide beam setting is needed, the Stardrive's arrays are too small to effectively create the wide-beam setting that the large arrays can. Also, the large arrays cover many attack vectors. Since it is stated also in the Tech Manual that the "most effective tactic is to maintain contact between the Threat shield or physical hull", it would be beneficial to have an array that can track a moving target, rather than be forced to constantly switch arrays and deal less damage in a period of time.
The combination of long arrays and short arrays, like the mission profile for the Galaxy-class starship, are designed to be flexible and adaptive to a hostile situation. It's probable that in the Dominion War, Galaxy-class starships needed to be as tactically flexible as possible, which includes being able to deal damage efficiently and in different forms if required; which is probably why the Saucer remained "glued" to the Stardrive for all of the combat scenes in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
finaly someone who knowes what flagship means, as fellow navy it is nice to see someone here who actualy knows the navel terms they use +1
I've listed my BOFFS based on actual Navy ship positions and not star trek's. I dont have a first officer I have a XO....
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Flagship is a designation given to many ships in the fleet not just 1. It has been speculated that there are between anywhere from 30 to 70 flagships of Starfleet. It's entirely possible that the sovereigns and galaxies were all flagships on top of a few other ships that belong to other ship classes.
just posting this but off screen they alomost did make 1701-e another galaxy
just posting this but off screen they alomost did make 1701-e another galaxy
The Star Trek Art Department did prematurely repaint the (4-foot?) Enterprise-D model with the registry NCC-1701-E, but that was before First Contact demanded the construction of the Sovereign-class Enterprise-E.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
the main reactor not being connected, when the ship is separated, to the main arrays contradicts your contradiction. i mean seriously, of all the things to try to nitpic.
The TNG Tech Manual also states a few things about the shipboard phasers (11.1):
No mention of power in this quote, but it has significance later on.
And 11.2 "Phaser operations":
First, using both of these sources, it can be seen that the warp reactor in a Galaxy-class starship affects the power available, and thus power output via the 3-stage phaser beam preparation and firing sequence. It was specifically stated that when the saucer is separated, the output (endurance, or strength of the beam over time) is markedly decreased, but recharge rates are not affected.
Thus, it is warp power, transferred via the EPS grid to the 3-stage phaser arrays, that determines the output of said arrays. Length of the array has no impact other than the ability to vary the type of shots fired.
thats a contradiction of itself then. when each emitter is its own capacitor, they can ether have lower rate of fire by fully charging them with less available plasma, or charge then as much as possible wile deciding to maintain the same rate of fire. for whatever reason, they decided to diffidently say that the only choice is to fire at reduced power, rather then at a reduced rate of fire.
This may be why the saucer is usually kept attached; in the event that a wide beam setting is needed, the Stardrive's arrays are too small to effectively create the wide-beam setting that the large arrays can. Also, the large arrays cover many attack vectors. Since it is stated also in the Tech Manual that the "most effective tactic is to maintain contact between the Threat shield or physical hull", it would be beneficial to have an array that can track a moving target, rather than be forced to constantly switch arrays and deal less damage in a period of time.
The combination of long arrays and short arrays, like the mission profile for the Galaxy-class starship, are designed to be flexible and adaptive to a hostile situation. It's probable that in the Dominion War, Galaxy-class starships needed to be as tactically flexible as possible, which includes being able to deal damage efficiently and in different forms if required; which is probably why the Saucer remained "glued" to the Stardrive for all of the combat scenes in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.
you did all that quoting of the manual but somehow managed to miss the part that explains how phasers work.
A typical large phaser array aboard the USS Enterprise, such as the upper dorsal array on the Saucer Module, consists of two hundred emitter segments in a dense linear arrangement for optimal control of firing order, thermal effects, field halos, and target impact. Groups of emitters are supplied by redundant sets of energy feeds from the primary trunks of the electro plasma system (EPS), and are similarly interconnected by fire control, thermal management, and sensor lines. The visible hull surface configuration of the phaser is a long shallow raised strip, the bulk of the hardware submerged within the vehicle frame.
The first stage of the array segment is the EPS submaster flow regulator, the principal mechanism controlling phaser power levels for firing. The flow regulator leads into the plasma distribution manifold (PDM), which branches into two hundred supply conduits to an equal number of prefire chambers. The final stage of the system is the phaser emitter crystal.
backs up what i said about each emitter being a fully functional weapon, each having its own charge, and each being supplied with power.
Energy from all discharged segments passes directionally over neighboring segments due to force coupling, converging on the release point, where the beam will emerge and travel at cto the target.
and this is were they mention the visible charge effect you see in the show, of the energy from all the emitters that the glow effect is seen converging to the fireing point. its not as spelled out as what i said, but its there. a bigger array uses can use more emitters per shot, big arrays win.
Have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe now, that in the twenty or so years since the Galaxy was developed that they have found a better way to phaser energy blasts? I understand that you are all about the size and everything, but even in our lowly 20th and 21st century, we have seen miniaturization of electronics and circuitry that requires less surface area to move energy from once place to another. Even in the 23rd-24th century "they have the technology" to improve on things and miniaturize them.
considered and dismissed. arrays are a mature technology, such a radical advancement is not going to take place. in the less then 10 years, not 20, between the enterprise D and E launch, mkXII emitters didn't get the 220% more powerful they would need to be for the sovereign classe's biggest array to break even with a galaxies biggest. and even if they were that much better, the galaxy was just a refit away from having the same emitter type. its a moot point, the sovereign looses as soon as array length is a factor it is in determining power.
Also, when Starfleet is building and refitting ships during a time of war (such as DS9), why would they gimp their ships by not upgrading the ships to the vaunted "large galaxy arrays." I know if I was in Utopia Planetia or whatever other shipyard, I would be finding any way possible, duck tape all down the secondary hull and make crew take turns breathing included, to put the most powerful weapons I can on ships, especially new designs. The Sovereigns saucer essentially is a 90' twist of the Galaxy's. There is no reason why the Sovereign couldn't have equipped the array, even if they had to make the array two deep for the surface area, not to mention plastering one down each side of the secondary hull. If the Galaxy and her beams were that good, newer classes of ships wouldn't have been necessary and the next Enterprise would have been another Galaxy, but it wasn't was it?
I know, I know, the Galaxy is and always shall be the epitome of a "battleship" :rolleyes:
good question, why not have only galaxy class? oh i dont know, proboly a thousand reasons. we should have galaxy class delivering cargo to colonies, surveying star systems other galaxy class charted, running errands in the core worlds, ya sounds great, who needs classes of ships at every size and ability.
its likely ships have an array that is just long enough for them to full array discharge at a certain rate of fire, and no bigger. no ship even has the size it would need to mount an array the size the galaxy has, even the sovereign. the large array on the galaxy is about the same circumference as the sovereigns saucer edge. there is a serious lack of general understanding of just how much larger the galaxy is then the sov.
modifying arrays or adding them to existing ships seems nigh impossible for them. from pictures in the tng tech manual, its pretty clear that the array housing is part of the actual frame of the ship. with most of the array hardware below the surface, thats easy to believe. a refit would require most of the saucer section to be striped of outer hulll, and like 30% of the frame of the ship cut apart and rebuilt. clearly, the math was not good for such a procedure, or excelsior class would have had phaser arrays in the 2340s. coming with such a large array is a major factor in the galaxy not obsoleting itself like the ambassador class did. newer ships a quarter its size have longer arrays then it does.
And where was it canonically said that Picard and crew were "barely in Starfleets good graces"? The only time there was any possible connotation of that was when the Enterprise-E was ordered to stay away from the Borg cube incurision in First Contact, and that was because Picard had once been in the collective, not because that he wasn't in "good graces". If he or his crew were not in good graces, they wouldn't have been placed on a Starfleet cruiser, or possibly even space duty. The Enterprise surely would not have been placed in diplomatic duties contacting species that they wanted to enlist help with fighting the Dominion (Insurrection) and Riker surely would not have been given command of the Titan, especially since he was the officer in command of the "D" when she only "used 10% of her arsenal".
im sure the admirals were too stoned to care that the galaxy class enterprise got destroyed by a bop. im sure they were totally chill about that. also, it took riker another decade almost to get a command, must have felt sorry for him at that point.
the main reactor not being connected, when the ship is separated, to the main arrays contradicts your contradiction. i mean seriously, of all the things to try to nitpic.
thats a contradiction of itself then. when each emitter is its own capacitor, they can ether have lower rate of fire by fully charging them with less available plasma, or charge then as much as possible wile deciding to maintain the same rate of fire. for whatever reason, they decided to diffidently say that the only choice is to fire at reduced power, rather then at a reduced rate of fire.
you did all that quoting of the manual but somehow managed to miss the part that explains how phasers work.
backs up what i said about each emitter being a fully functional weapon, each having its own charge, and each being supplied with power.
and this is were they mention the visible charge effect you see in the show, of the energy from all the emitters that the glow effect is seen converging to the fireing point. its not as spelled out as what i said, but its there. a bigger array uses can use more emitters per shot, big arrays win.
considered and dismissed. arrays are a mature technology, such a radical advancement is not going to take place. in the less then 10 years, not 20, between the enterprise D and E launch, mkXII emitters didn't get the 220% more powerful they would need to be for the sovereign classe's biggest array to break even with a galaxies biggest. and even if they were that much better, the galaxy was just a refit away from having the same emitter type. its a moot point, the sovereign looses as soon as array length is a factor it is in determining power.
good question, why not have only galaxy class? oh i dont know, proboly a thousand reasons. we should have galaxy class delivering cargo to colonies, surveying star systems other galaxy class charted, running errands in the core worlds, ya sounds great, who needs classes of ships at every size and ability.
its likely ships have an array that is just long enough for them to full array discharge at a certain rate of fire, and no bigger. no ship even has the size it would need to mount an array the size the galaxy has, even the sovereign. the large array on the galaxy is about the same circumference as the sovereigns saucer edge. there is a serious lack of general understanding of just how much larger the galaxy is then the sov.
modifying arrays or adding them to existing ships seems nigh impossible for them. from pictures in the tng tech manual, its pretty clear that the array housing is part of the actual frame of the ship. with most of the array hardware below the surface, thats easy to believe. a refit would require most of the saucer section to be striped of outer hulll, and like 30% of the frame of the ship cut apart and rebuilt. clearly, the math was not good for such a procedure, or excelsior class would have had phaser arrays in the 2340s. coming with such a large array is a major factor in the galaxy not obsoleting itself like the ambassador class did. newer ships a quarter its size have longer arrays then it does.
im sure the admirals were too stoned to care that the galaxy class enterprise got destroyed by a bop. im sure they were totally chill about that. also, it took riker another decade almost to get a command, must have felt sorry for him at that point.
I have never once seen any proof that the main phasers are more powerful than any other Phaser strip. As far as we know the smaller strips to the charge thing too. the only thing is the fire arc of those arrays. For one thing escapes your logic. If your right that they are the most powerful then why have them on the saucer rather then the stardrive/ BATTLE section?
I have never once seen any proof that the main phasers are more powerful than any other Phaser strip. As far as we know the smaller strips to the charge thing too. the only thing is the fire arc of those arrays. For one thing escapes your logic. If your right that they are the most powerful then why have them on the saucer rather then the stardrive/ BATTLE section?
the enterprise D only fired the main array. the technical manual explanation proves that the more emitters there are, the more powerful the best shot can be, because its a combination of all the power every emitter was storing. less emitters in the strip, less power available for the shot. dont tell me there isn't proof, there is only denial. did you not read my post? was it just to big?
maybe its called the battle section, and battle bridge, because the only time it would separate is to do battle under very particular circumstances? if the separated to mainly do some kind of scientific study, it would proboly be called the science section. placing so much value on the word battle makes my head hurt, call me when you people get over words like battle section and battleship. im not stupid enough to argue at a level this low.
I do have to say from the Galaxy Dread, to the Odessey, the day of the cruiser is done. If you spent money on it at the time, good move. If you bought it recently, do not forget to flush because what came out of the box needs to be.
People go on about tankiness, true enough and Odessey and Assault are more versatile, but then again, the threat scale makes "tanking" somewhat useless. In PvP time and again I have seen Galaxy dread pilots spout off, then in a 1v1 the ship folds like oragami. There are times I love trolling ESD chat for one of them that things they are something only to sap all their power, turn them off completely and watch them crack. The cloaking device on it is really quite useless and takes up a slot better to letting them live for an additional 5 seconds before they have been completely resistance stripped.
I am sorry to say and hurt the fan boys, but, its outdated, and cryptic will simply release something new. Never expect them to do anything to fix, buff, add too, or change with these ships.
If you are considering buying one, save your money for the next release of a ship. Its the 25th century, let the 24th century rest in peace. A Galaxy is merely a trophy and testament how Patrick Stewart carried B and C actors for so long.
the enterprise D only fired the main array. the technical manual explanation proves that the more emitters there are, the more powerful the best shot can be, because its a combination of all the power every emitter was storing. less emitters in the strip, less power available for the shot. dont tell me there isn't proof, there is only denial. did you not read my post? was it just to big?
maybe its called the battle section, and battle bridge, because the only time it would separate is to do battle under very particular circumstances? if the separated to mainly do some kind of scientific study, it would proboly be called the science section. placing so much value on the word battle makes my head hurt, call me when you people get over words like battle section and battleship. im not stupid enough to argue at a level this low.
we saw her use other arrays, heck one time we saw a phaser out of the torp bay. but note again doesn't prove your point. in only shows that those phaser arrays had a good firing arc so usually used when firing not they were the UBER phaserarray. so also againt why split Voyager's saucer arrays, they could easily be one, or the sov's upper saucer array. The ONLY reason i see is that it didn't matter the size of the array. just the arcs.
the main reactor not being connected, when the ship is separated, to the main arrays contradicts your contradiction. i mean seriously, of all the things to try to nitpic.
No, the purpose of including that is to say that all shipboard phasers run off of warp reactor power; and that power affects the strength and energy of the emitted phaser beam. Nice try, but I wasn't born yesterday.
thats a contradiction of itself then. when each emitter is its own capacitor, they can ether have lower rate of fire by fully charging them with less available plasma, or charge then as much as possible wile deciding to maintain the same rate of fire. for whatever reason, they decided to diffidently say that the only choice is to fire at reduced power, rather then at a reduced rate of fire.
The TNG Tech Manual never stated anything about "lower rate of fire... charging with available plasma". In fact, the only thing the Manual states about plasma is the fact that it supplies power to the phaser array system; and that a regulator monitors the incoming flow of plasma. There is NO written connection between the rate at which the phaser array fires, and the plasma flowing into the system.
A typical large phaser array aboard the USS Enterprise, such as the upper dorsal array on the Saucer Module, consists of two hundred emitter segments in a dense linear arrangement for optimal control of firing order, thermal effects, field halos, and target impact. Groups of emitters are supplied by redundant sets of energy feeds from the primary trunks of the electro plasma system (EPS), and are similarly interconnected by fire control, thermal management, and sensor lines. The visible hull surface configuration of the phaser is a long shallow raised strip, the bulk of the hardware submerged within the vehicle frame.
The first stage of the array segment is the EPS submaster flow regulator, the principal mechanism controlling phaser power levels for firing. The flow regulator leads into the plasma distribution manifold (PDM), which branches into two hundred supply conduits to an equal number of prefire chambers. The final stage of the system is the phaser emitter crystal.
backs up what i said about each emitter being a fully functional weapon, each having its own charge, and each being supplied with power.
I wasn't arguing against that. You stated that the shipboard phaser array length affects the firing rate. Nowhere in the TNG Tech Manual does it say that. It says that firing rate is separate from warp power; and power input affects power output of the weapon.
It does NOT say anything about "removing the warp core from that equation would not actually lower the potential damage of the main array per shot, it would just lower the rate of fire" (Your words). The amount of energy outputted by a system should not be greater than the input energy into a system. Makes sense, right? Simple physics offers that, and I can give you a quote for that too.
http://library.thinkquest.org/2745/data/lawce1.htm
Energy in a system may take on various forms (e.g. kinetic, potential, heat, light). The law of conservation of energy states that energy may neither be created nor destroyed. Therefore the sum of all the energies in the system is a constant.
You're saying the output > input. If this occurred as you claim it would, Star Trek would fall apart.
Energy from all discharged segments passes directionally over neighboring segments due to force coupling, converging on the release point, where the beam will emerge and travel at c to the target.
and this is were they mention the visible charge effect you see in the show, of the energy from all the emitters that the glow effect is seen converging to the fireing point. its not as spelled out as what i said, but its there. a bigger array uses can use more emitters per shot, big arrays win.
Incorrect. Like you said, the visible charge effect shows all of the energy passing from selected charged segments into one location, where the Beam of Death emanates from.
The TNG Tech Manual did not specify that all of the segments of the entire array are used for a phaser shot. TNG and DS9 supports this, we see the charge effect start, but not from the very ends of the array, but from the middle.
Skip ahead to 1:42 (the stuff before it is the leadup to the battle). The charge-up effect starts about 25 meters left from the bow and 25 meters fore of the saucer's port axis. Second beam is even smaller than that; 50 meters below the saucer's port axis and at the end of the emitter. The distances between the two shots' initial starting points is nearly the same as the entire length of the Stardrive Section's forward phaser array; indicating that the only purpose of having an extraordinarily long phaser strip is for, as I said before, keeping the beam consistently tracking a target (TNG Tech Manual supports this!), and not for this super Death Star-esque chargeup that you claim takes up 100% of the emitters in the array. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JoQzuPjSk0
Skip ahead to 5:22 and keep hitting the pause/play button. The 1st chargeup starts at opposite ends of the array; one at the start of the array (portside) and the other, right of the forward axis. Again, even though the chargeup sequence takes a longer distance of array than the Stardrive's entire forward array, the chargeup does not use up the whole array. The 2nd shot has a much smaller chargeup distance along the array; again, the start of the array portside, and the other start point just above the ship's port axis. This shot is slightly larger than the Stardrive's main phaser array.
the enterprise D only fired the main array. the technical manual explanation proves that the more emitters there are, the more powerful the best shot can be, because its a combination of all the power every emitter was storing. less emitters in the strip, less power available for the shot. dont tell me there isn't proof, there is only denial. did you not read my post? was it just to big?
First, that is wrong, the Enterprise-D fired several arrays other than the main one - even firing from arrays that don't exist (Best of Both Worlds, the mysterious pylon firings). There was a Borg episode where the ventral array on the secondary hull fired a beam at a sun or something.
And like I said before, even though the whole array is there, the actual chargeup area is smaller than the entire array; in other words, in the show(s), Galaxy-class starships were consistently seen firing only a select portion of the entire array.
And there is proof. Video proof, which no one can dispute.
Again. It's likely the saucer was attached to the ship just to offer the unbroken direction of phaser fire, to allow the most effective tactic.
(P.S. Sorry if that's a lot of reading )
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
No, the purpose of including that is to say that all shipboard phasers run off of warp reactor power; and that power affects the strength and energy of the emitted phaser beam. Nice try, but I wasn't born yesterday.
The TNG Tech Manual never stated anything about "lower rate of fire... charging with available plasma". In fact, the only thing the Manual states about plasma is the fact that it supplies power to the phaser array system; and that a regulator monitors the incoming flow of plasma. There is NO written connection between the rate at which the phaser array fires, and the plasma flowing into the system.
I wasn't arguing against that. You stated that the shipboard phaser array length affects the firing rate. Nowhere in the TNG Tech Manual does it say that. It says that firing rate is separate from warp power; and power input affects power output of the weapon.
It does NOT say anything about "removing the warp core from that equation would not actually lower the potential damage of the main array per shot, it would just lower the rate of fire" (Your words). The amount of energy outputted by a system should not be greater than the input energy into a system. Makes sense, right? Simple physics offers that, and I can give you a quote for that too.
You're saying the output > input. If this occurred as you claim it would, Star Trek would fall apart.
Incorrect. Like you said, the visible charge effect shows all of the energy passing from selected charged segments into one location, where the Beam of Death emanates from.
The TNG Tech Manual did not specify that all of the segments of the entire array are used for a phaser shot. TNG and DS9 supports this, we see the charge effect start, but not from the very ends of the array, but from the middle.
Skip ahead to 1:42 (the stuff before it is the leadup to the battle). The charge-up effect starts about 25 meters left from the bow and 25 meters fore of the saucer's port axis. Second beam is even smaller than that; 50 meters below the saucer's port axis and at the end of the emitter. The distances between the two shots' initial starting points is nearly the same as the entire length of the Stardrive Section's forward phaser array; indicating that the only purpose of having an extraordinarily long phaser strip is for, as I said before, keeping the beam consistently tracking a target (TNG Tech Manual supports this!), and not for this super Death Star-esque chargeup that you claim takes up 100% of the emitters in the array. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JoQzuPjSk0
Skip ahead to 5:22 and keep hitting the pause/play button. The 1st chargeup starts at opposite ends of the array; one at the start of the array (portside) and the other, right of the forward axis. Again, even though the chargeup sequence takes a longer distance of array than the Stardrive's entire forward array, the chargeup does not use up the whole array. The 2nd shot has a much smaller chargeup distance along the array; again, the start of the array portside, and the other start point just above the ship's port axis. This shot is slightly larger than the Stardrive's main phaser array.
First, that is wrong, the Enterprise-D fired several arrays other than the main one - even firing from arrays that don't exist (Best of Both Worlds, the mysterious pylon firings). There was a Borg episode where the ventral array on the secondary hull fired a beam at a sun or something.
And like I said before, even though the whole array is there, the actual chargeup area is smaller than the entire array; in other words, in the show(s), Galaxy-class starships were consistently seen firing only a select portion of the entire array.
And there is proof. Video proof, which no one can dispute.
Again. It's likely the saucer was attached to the ship just to offer the unbroken direction of phaser fire, to allow the most effective tactic.
(P.S. Sorry if that's a lot of reading )
The Galaxy does have phaser strips on the pylons, they are right at the curve. But i completely agree with you.
easily explained by saying that discharging the entire array at once would necessitate re-energising the whole array before firing a second shot, and that shorter charge sequences allow faster fire rates.
That is true, but the amount of power placed into the system does not directly affect the firing rate, as drunk claims it does.
"removing the warp core from that equation would not actually lower the potential damage of the main array per shot, it would just lower the rate of fire"
there is also the possibility of diminishing returns from longer arrays meaning that although a shoot discharging the entire array may be more powerful on its own, it way well be less power efficient. while also leaving the arrays counter battery function weakened as the whole array is recharged.
That's exactly why the Stardrive's forward array might be better suited to damage output. It has a smaller chargeup distance, true, but it can be used for multiple bursts of medium energy output, as opposed to charging the whole dorsal main array of the docked Saucer. The possible reason this isn't used is, again, because keeping the phaser beam locked on a moving target is more tactically effective.
...regardless of the actual beam type, pulse or continuous, or the specific Threat situation, the most effective tactic is to maintain contact between the beam and the Threat shield or physical hull.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
true if it where a closed system. its not a closed system.
doubling of charge up time of the array's capacitors to peak/optimal is one of the obvious points of give in the system if you lose half your generator output for example.
so long as the maximum capacity of the array is there, unless it gets damaged and total store capacity is diminished, but thats another issue.
not quite.
the smaller array has fewer sequenced emitter "nodes" i guess the word would be.
the smaller array would lack capacity not only in trying to discharge a burst that used the whole array, but lacks the ability to cycle clusters of nodes for sustained rapid fire.
sure, at the lower end of the scale it may be able to recharge its lower capacity faster... possibly easier to power the smaller array directly from generator output...
but the smaller array still doesnt have the internal capacitance to put out the equivalent of an anti-capital beam discharge that the gals saucer array could manage.
see, that breaks the laws of physics.
a high energy pulse will all ways have higher damage potential than discharging the same power over a minute due to absorption/conduction by the targets armor.
in particle beams the higher value of the pulse would cause more disruptive damage to the structure of the targets armor causing it to be weaker to consecutive shots in that area.
in dew's the sudden energy spike will be harder to conduct away from the contact point.
THIS being EXACTLY the point of the defiant having pulse cannons. to let it hit a class above its weight level compared to other fed ships.(but then the kdf knew THAT 400 years ago:rolleyes:)
that gets a bit fuzzy with C beams... but they dont exist in startrek, and if they do, nothing shown on screen in the ST franchise could take a hit from one.
think of it this way;
the stardrive array is everything up to a 10 inch gun,
the saucer array is everything up to an 18inch gun with the option of nuclear shells.
also, how do you get a custom avatar on this forum?
again there's nothing to prove a larger array equals more firepower, just a better firing arc for again why would Intrepid have a split array when their is space to connect it.
Also again if theory was co9rrect why put the most powerful phasers on the part of the ship NOT planed to be in combat when split. Your theory would mean tha uber phaser should be on the Stardrive NOT the saucer. Thus your theory is proven wrong.
again there's nothing to prove a larger array equals more firepower, just a better firing arc for again why would Intrepid have a split array when their is space to connect it.
Also again if theory was co9rrect why put the most powerful phasers on the part of the ship NOT planed to be in combat when split. Your theory would mean tha uber phaser should be on the Stardrive NOT the saucer. Thus your theory is proven wrong.
nor is it taking into account that a phaser array on the Sovy might use different technology that makes the larger arrays obsolete
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
"battle section", "macross quarter", "stardrive" sure whatever.:rolleyes:
i would like to know the definition of battleship you use that makes you so annoyed at its use in this thread though.
simply the largest category of ship. since ALL space craft are very multipurpose, none of the purely military terms are a perfect fit. battleship was always primarily about size. if a battleship was smaller, it was then called a cruiser. no one can see past the word battle, so a stupid tangent argument has to occur, over and over and over.
No, the purpose of including that is to say that all shipboard phasers run off of warp reactor power; and that power affects the strength and energy of the emitted phaser beam. Nice try, but I wasn't born yesterday.
that point has very little reliance, im not sure why its being dwelled on. plasma is plasma, whether generated by the warp core of impulse reactors, the change to the refit enterprise was most likely a reorganization of the EPS network on the ship. weapons are now included on the power grid along with the warp engines. regardless, there is no warp core attached to the main arrays when it is separated. thats the only point i made there, theres no conspiracy, relax.
The TNG Tech Manual never stated anything about "lower rate of fire... charging with available plasma". In fact, the only thing the Manual states about plasma is the fact that it supplies power to the phaser array system; and that a regulator monitors the incoming flow of plasma. There is NO written connection between the rate at which the phaser array fires, and the plasma flowing into the system.
its supply and demand. its simple logic. without the plasma generated by the core and main impulse engine, there is less for the main arrays to work with. something would have to give. whatever the manual has to say on the subject, i didn't even remember that it said anything about it, i trust though. do remember that the core makes the same plasma the impulse reactors do, its not extra special. plasma from any source, if there was enough, would fuel everything on the ship just fine, even the warp drive.
I wasn't arguing against that. You stated that the shipboard phaser array length affects the firing rate. Nowhere in the TNG Tech Manual does it say that. It says that firing rate is separate from warp power; and power input affects power output of the weapon.
It does NOT say anything about "removing the warp core from that equation would not actually lower the potential damage of the main array per shot, it would just lower the rate of fire" (Your words). The amount of energy outputted by a system should not be greater than the input energy into a system. Makes sense, right? Simple physics offers that, and I can give you a quote for that too.
You're saying the output > input. If this occurred as you claim it would, Star Trek would fall apart.
no, i did not say that, your not understanding the statement. remove the warp core from the equation refers to saucer separation. which removes the largest source of plasma, which would effect ether rate of fire, or as you say the manual sais, output. im not sure how you could misunderstand so severely. less plasma for the arrays means less array output, in some way. i think physics would agree.
Incorrect. Like you said, the visible charge effect shows all of the energy passing from selected charged segments into one location, where the Beam of Death emanates from.
The TNG Tech Manual did not specify that all of the segments of the entire array are used for a phaser shot. TNG and DS9 supports this, we see the charge effect start, but not from the very ends of the array, but from the middle.
EXACTLY! theres a ton of instances were there is not a full array discharge, they only use a few emitters, those shots are thus less powerful. its how they control how powerful a shot is, the number of emitters involved in the visual glow effect.
a bigger array can use more emitters per shot, big arrays win.
there is also quite a few instances of the entire arrays involved in the glow effect, even in DS9.
Skip ahead to 1:42 (the stuff before it is the leadup to the battle). The charge-up effect starts about 25 meters left from the bow and 25 meters fore of the saucer's port axis. Second beam is even smaller than that; 50 meters below the saucer's port axis and at the end of the emitter. The distances between the two shots' initial starting points is nearly the same as the entire length of the Stardrive Section's forward phaser array; indicating that the only purpose of having an extraordinarily long phaser strip is for, as I said before, keeping the beam consistently tracking a target (TNG Tech Manual supports this!), and not for this super Death Star-esque chargeup that you claim takes up 100% of the emitters in the array.
huh, i think i claimed this actually
a bigger array can use more emitters per shot, big arrays win.
would you like me to post a vid were we do see a galaxy use its entire array for a shot? because thee are quite a few instances were it does, any other youtube clip with the galaxy would show it. one example were it doesn't disproves nothing. it just proves that arrays work how i say they work.
that looked like a target subsystem attack, not a shoot the galor in half attack. a small number of emiters used, not the whole array. a disabled ship is much less explosive, in a tight, close quarters, fleet battle like that. if they blew that galor up at that range they would have been seriously damaged.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JoQzuPjSk0
Skip ahead to 5:22 and keep hitting the pause/play button. The 1st chargeup starts at opposite ends of the array; one at the start of the array (portside) and the other, right of the forward axis. Again, even though the chargeup sequence takes a longer distance of array than the Stardrive's entire forward array, the chargeup does not use up the whole array. The 2nd shot has a much smaller chargeup distance along the array; again, the start of the array portside, and the other start point just above the ship's port axis. This shot is slightly larger than the Stardrive's main phaser array.
poor quality and inconsistent effects from like 1990. the fact that there is the glow effect at all indicates that the energy of multiple emitters is still converging at the point that fires. proving the principle ive layed out.
First, that is wrong, the Enterprise-D fired several arrays other than the main one - even firing from arrays that don't exist (Best of Both Worlds, the mysterious pylon firings). There was a Borg episode where the ventral array on the secondary hull fired a beam at a sun or something.
And like I said before, even though the whole array is there, the actual chargeup area is smaller than the entire array; in other words, in the show(s), Galaxy-class starships were consistently seen firing only a select portion of the entire array.
And there is proof. Video proof, which no one can dispute.
Again. It's likely the saucer was attached to the ship just to offer the unbroken direction of phaser fire, to allow the most effective tactic.
(P.S. Sorry if that's a lot of reading )
i supose you didnt read a few posts back when i addredssed this. i dont want to write more then i have to so i excluded this point here. darmok was an admited tech mistake. thats all it was. in BOBW, like i had said earlier, shooting every array that had line of sight, at different frequencies all at the same time, in hopes that something would deal damage is how that is explained. also, no other target would be large enough to even have those smaller arrays able to hit a target infront of it other then a borg cube.
any energy used to fire shots from smaller arrays uses energy more effectively fired from a single much more powerful beam, only able to be generated by the huge main array, with up to 200 emitters worth of power able to be fired in 1 shot. the only other time the main array was not fired, and another array was, was when they caused that solor flare that destroyed lore's borg ship. not a single additional time was a shot not fired from the main array.
true if it where a closed system. its not a closed system.
doubling of charge up time of the array's capacitors to peak/optimal is one of the obvious points of give in the system if you lose half your generator output for example.
so long as the maximum capacity of the array is there, unless it gets damaged and total store capacity is diminished, but thats another issue.
The two scenarios deal with the Galaxy-class weaponry in less than optimal scenarios, which is nothing related to the capability of the ship.
not quite.
the smaller array has fewer sequenced emitter "nodes" i guess the word would be.
the smaller array would lack capacity not only in trying to discharge a burst that used the whole array, but lacks the ability to cycle clusters of nodes for sustained rapid fire.
sure, at the lower end of the scale it may be able to recharge its lower capacity faster... possibly easier to power the smaller array directly from generator output...
but the smaller array still doesnt have the internal capacitance to put out the equivalent of an anti-capital beam discharge that the gals saucer array could manage.
True, and that's why the saucer is most likely attached to the ship during the Dominion War. If the Stardrive could manage "anti-capital beam discharges", and have an array long enough to cover most attack vectors, there would be no need for the Saucer to be there.
(Of course, there would still be saucers attached to Galaxy-class starships if there was a need for extra space, such as troops or equipment or computer command support. Which is likely why all Galaxy-class starships had them attached anyways...)
That quote was taken directly from a book which has very credible technical information on this very ship. Are you arguing against a source which might very well be considered canon? (Technically it's called "apocryphal", which Ex Astris Scientia defines as "In Star Trek fandom, the term "apocryphal" represents any information that is not canon in a narrow sense, but is by some treated like or accepted as canon. This may include The Animated Series, the books by Jeri Taylor, reference books or deleted scenes.")
also, how do you get a custom avatar on this forum?
Go to the forum homepage, click on "User CP" at the top left, then "Set Avatar". You'll notice there is an option to upload a custom avatar. Use the upload, don't link from a website (linking feature i broken).
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Comments
and the only reason the galaxy doesn't separate when its going into a fight is because 90% of its potential energy weapon firepower comes from the 2 main arrays. ive explained why they are the most powerful 100 times in this thread and sourced the information, i should not have to again. they are so much more powerful then any of the other arrays, that they never fire unless one of the 2 main arrays dont have line of sight on the target. or they are trying to hit a borg cube with as many frequencies as they can to try to damage it.
a separated galaxy seems to me to have about the combat potential of an ambassador class. the 2 longest arrays are about the size of the ambassador 6 longest. though its smaller and has much less crew and damage soak, its also got much more torpedo damage potential, and would be faster. thats when a sovereign can beat the galaxy, when its saucer is separated. even the Prometheus would have a good chance i imagine.
I must have missed that argument+proof. Do you know which page that is on?
As for separated combat. I'll have to take a look at the TNG Tech Manual again for the phasers, but it seems as though it really doesn't matter how long the phaser strips are in terms of damage output. Otherwise, Riker would have no need to separate the ship in TNG: "Best of Both Worlds, Pt II", as the whole ship could just sit there and tank, fire torpedoes and phasers, and the antimatter spread. Besides, when relieved of the extra power requirements of the saucer, there would be more free power available to the weapon systems on the Stardrive, including phaser emitters.
More tactically capable starships like the Sovereign and Prometheus would likely have a better chance of defeating a Galaxy-class when separated, but only because the ship doesn't have as much hull and shielding as when in "docked" configuration.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
But i also agree that size of emitter doesn't matter in terms of power. The main arrays have a huge firing arc so that could be the reson. but split the same area is covered by the hidden phaser strip and the venterial phaser strips.
no... i can't bielieve it.
i leave this thead for 1 week and you come sneak around without even warning me!!!:D
after all what we been trought together, how dare you!!:D:
but don't you worry, our fringe movement will make it, hehe.
we have already infiltrated cryptic and perfect world headquater.
we will modify the bo layout of all version of the galaxy.
we have a good plan for it, swapt it bo layout with the prometheus,yeah, not just copy it, but swapt it, what do you think about that, hm?
that is just the beguining of our mastepiece plan you known, we also planning to remove canon weaponerie in the game, and shield of the escort:D
yeah after all they don't need shield.;)
we will also put in place the galaxy class starship event: everyone in the game would have to fly the galaxy ship for 1 hours to honor the treatement this ship have been enduring since these 3 years.
during the event a recorded voice of dontdrunkimshoot will explain why the galaxy ship is the most powerfull ship in star trek universe and therefore in STO.
they will be subtitle for the deaf people don't worry.
2 new stf specifically made for this ship:
1) i kill a deathstar on my own with my galaxy
2) i eat 2 vger at breakfast every morning with my galaxy.
do you think we will stop with sto? hahaha, don't count on that!!!
we have already submitted to all government in the world the construction of real galaxy ship among other things like replace the statue of liberty with a galaxy ship model as well as the effel tower, yeah we thaught it will be better like this.
this post is to small to detail everything that we have think of so i ll stop here.
the galaxy fanboy will rules the planet and there nothing that you can do about it MWUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
we are so evil...
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
THIS! hahahahaha, ho yeah i will have to do that exactly too, at least for one month, hehehe.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
Add to those:
The possibility that not all Galaxy class ships were constructed to have a saucer separation. Perhaps the second (and beyond) production runs might have just been revised into a one piece hull because Starfleet determined that saucer sep' wasn't as useful as they thought it would be.
The FX guys didn't want to spend more time, effort and money showing the Galaxy class with its saucers seperated because it was easier to use a full Galaxy hull than dealing with saucer and stardrive
Klingons have science officers on their ships because they offer tactical benefits in battle. Its not too often that one could imagine a Neg'Var doing stellar cartography or sending landing parties to do botany research.
The reason why the Galaxy doesn't separate while going into a fight was the higher costs of film work (later CG work) needed to show it correctly in fighting sequences. The budgeting allowed it to only be sequenced in the most "dramatic" moments of the show and in the movies it was used as a goodbye salute to the Enterprise-D. The producers of later Star Trek shows/movies decided to not have "hero" ships with this function because of it. The Prometheus MVAM'ed in one episode and not shown again.
Honestly, we really don't know who would beat what separated or not, because it hasn't been shown in canon. Answer me this, if the Galaxy was such a great "battleship" and the most powerful ship in Starfleet, including during DS9 and shortly thereafter, why was the "flagship" of the Federation built on a Sovereign hull (by your standards an inferior ship) during a time of war? Why not recommission a Galaxy as the next Enterprise (as they did with the Enterprise-A) or designate another Galaxy as the Federation flagship?
actually flagship has two meanings
1) The ship of the admiral
2) The best ship in the fleet
Even the current US Navy uses the terms like this. I was stationed onboard USS CONSTELLATION CV-64...it was an aircraft carrier now decommissioned. In 1981 President Ronald Regan presented the ship with a presidential flag and declared the ship America's Flagship.
I believe number 2 is what the Star Fleet uses to declare their flagships...on numerous occasions the Enterprise is mentioned as the flagship...when not having any flag officers present.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
ive explained it like every 3 or 4 pages. :rolleyes: here i go again
the dorsal main array, the longer one on top, has 200 independent emitters all lined up in a row. each emitter is a fully functioning weapon, with its own eps conduit, its own stored energy, and its own ability to fire a shot. this is true for every emitter in every phaser array in every ship with phaser arrays. not only can they all operate independently, but they can force couple, and pass their own stored energy down the array to a point were multiple emitters are used to fire a shot. thats that moving glow effect you see in the show, the energy of each one of those emitters passing their energy down to the selected fireing point. thus, the longer the array, the more powerful a ships best shot can be. some think the time it takes the charge to move across the array has something to do with output too, but to me it seems like it simply drains an emitter's stored energy, or it doesn't use the emitter. with 200 to chose from, you can pretty exactly dial in how strong you want the shot to be.
this is the most obvious explanation based on the charge effect you see in the show, and based on what the tech manual says about phaser arrays.
removing the warp core from that equation would not actually lower the potential damage of the main array per shot, it would just lower the rate of fire. the emitters would likely not be able to all be charged as quickly without the volume of plasma the core can create.
pound for pound, the sovereign is more tactical, but the galaxy has more then twice the number of pounds. ships that are less combat capable, like the sovereign and prometheus, do not have a chance of defeating a galaxy class. the sovereign's longest array isn't even half as long as the smaller of the 2 large galaxy arrays. since they came originally with more advanced emitters, its likely the sovereigns best shot is up to half as powerful as the galaxy's best shot. and the Prometheus's arrays are only about half or less as long as the sovereigns, spit balls compared to the galaxy.
the enterprise E was NEVER referred to as the flagship. the only time flagship was said in any of the movies, was when they commented saying the flagship had been destroyed, by the cube. if i was star fleet, and a ship crew got one of the galaxy class ships destroyed, an enterprise no less, because for some reason they did not use even 10% of the arsenal they had available, the last thing i would do is give them another galaxy class. they got the sovereign class enterprise E for the same reason kirk did not get the excelsior, both crews were just barely in starfleets good graces. the sovereign is an exceptional ship that can do exceptional things. in the future it will be the new face of starfleet. might as well make an enterprise out of one. total combat potential is not the measuring stick to them that it would be to us.
finaly someone who knowes what flagship means, as fellow navy it is nice to see someone here who actualy knows the navel terms they use +1
Actually, in several episodes (namely TNG), the Enterprise-D is mentioned as the Federation flagship, meaning the only one.
Have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe now, that in the twenty or so years since the Galaxy was developed that they have found a better way to phaser energy blasts? I understand that you are all about the size and everything, but even in our lowly 20th and 21st century, we have seen miniaturization of electronics and circuitry that requires less surface area to move energy from once place to another. Even in the 23rd-24th century "they have the technology" to improve on things and miniaturize them.
Also, when Starfleet is building and refitting ships during a time of war (such as DS9), why would they gimp their ships by not upgrading the ships to the vaunted "large galaxy arrays." I know if I was in Utopia Planetia or whatever other shipyard, I would be finding any way possible, duck tape all down the secondary hull and make crew take turns breathing included, to put the most powerful weapons I can on ships, especially new designs. The Sovereigns saucer essentially is a 90' twist of the Galaxy's. There is no reason why the Sovereign couldn't have equipped the array, even if they had to make the array two deep for the surface area, not to mention plastering one down each side of the secondary hull. If the Galaxy and her beams were that good, newer classes of ships wouldn't have been necessary and the next Enterprise would have been another Galaxy, but it wasn't was it?
I know, I know, the Galaxy is and always shall be the epitome of a "battleship" :rolleyes:
And where was it canonically said that Picard and crew were "barely in Starfleets good graces"? The only time there was any possible connotation of that was when the Enterprise-E was ordered to stay away from the Borg cube incurision in First Contact, and that was because Picard had once been in the collective, not because that he wasn't in "good graces". If he or his crew were not in good graces, they wouldn't have been placed on a Starfleet cruiser, or possibly even space duty. The Enterprise surely would not have been placed in diplomatic duties contacting species that they wanted to enlist help with fighting the Dominion (Insurrection) and Riker surely would not have been given command of the Titan, especially since he was the officer in command of the "D" when she only "used 10% of her arsenal".
Memory Alpha contradicts this.
The TNG Tech Manual also states a few things about the shipboard phasers (11.1): No mention of power in this quote, but it has significance later on.
And 11.2 "Phaser operations":
First, using both of these sources, it can be seen that the warp reactor in a Galaxy-class starship affects the power available, and thus power output via the 3-stage phaser beam preparation and firing sequence. It was specifically stated that when the saucer is separated, the output (endurance, or strength of the beam over time) is markedly decreased, but recharge rates are not affected.
Thus, it is warp power, transferred via the EPS grid to the 3-stage phaser arrays, that determines the output of said arrays. Length of the array has no impact other than the ability to vary the type of shots fired.
This may be why the saucer is usually kept attached; in the event that a wide beam setting is needed, the Stardrive's arrays are too small to effectively create the wide-beam setting that the large arrays can. Also, the large arrays cover many attack vectors. Since it is stated also in the Tech Manual that the "most effective tactic is to maintain contact between the Threat shield or physical hull", it would be beneficial to have an array that can track a moving target, rather than be forced to constantly switch arrays and deal less damage in a period of time.
The combination of long arrays and short arrays, like the mission profile for the Galaxy-class starship, are designed to be flexible and adaptive to a hostile situation. It's probable that in the Dominion War, Galaxy-class starships needed to be as tactically flexible as possible, which includes being able to deal damage efficiently and in different forms if required; which is probably why the Saucer remained "glued" to the Stardrive for all of the combat scenes in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
I've listed my BOFFS based on actual Navy ship positions and not star trek's. I dont have a first officer I have a XO....
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
just posting this but off screen they alomost did make 1701-e another galaxy
The Star Trek Art Department did prematurely repaint the (4-foot?) Enterprise-D model with the registry NCC-1701-E, but that was before First Contact demanded the construction of the Sovereign-class Enterprise-E.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
the main reactor not being connected, when the ship is separated, to the main arrays contradicts your contradiction. i mean seriously, of all the things to try to nitpic.
thats a contradiction of itself then. when each emitter is its own capacitor, they can ether have lower rate of fire by fully charging them with less available plasma, or charge then as much as possible wile deciding to maintain the same rate of fire. for whatever reason, they decided to diffidently say that the only choice is to fire at reduced power, rather then at a reduced rate of fire.
you did all that quoting of the manual but somehow managed to miss the part that explains how phasers work.
backs up what i said about each emitter being a fully functional weapon, each having its own charge, and each being supplied with power.
and this is were they mention the visible charge effect you see in the show, of the energy from all the emitters that the glow effect is seen converging to the fireing point. its not as spelled out as what i said, but its there. a bigger array uses can use more emitters per shot, big arrays win.
considered and dismissed. arrays are a mature technology, such a radical advancement is not going to take place. in the less then 10 years, not 20, between the enterprise D and E launch, mkXII emitters didn't get the 220% more powerful they would need to be for the sovereign classe's biggest array to break even with a galaxies biggest. and even if they were that much better, the galaxy was just a refit away from having the same emitter type. its a moot point, the sovereign looses as soon as array length is a factor it is in determining power.
good question, why not have only galaxy class? oh i dont know, proboly a thousand reasons. we should have galaxy class delivering cargo to colonies, surveying star systems other galaxy class charted, running errands in the core worlds, ya sounds great, who needs classes of ships at every size and ability.
its likely ships have an array that is just long enough for them to full array discharge at a certain rate of fire, and no bigger. no ship even has the size it would need to mount an array the size the galaxy has, even the sovereign. the large array on the galaxy is about the same circumference as the sovereigns saucer edge. there is a serious lack of general understanding of just how much larger the galaxy is then the sov.
https://imageshack.us/a/img143/8792/3axissizecompare.jpg
modifying arrays or adding them to existing ships seems nigh impossible for them. from pictures in the tng tech manual, its pretty clear that the array housing is part of the actual frame of the ship. with most of the array hardware below the surface, thats easy to believe. a refit would require most of the saucer section to be striped of outer hulll, and like 30% of the frame of the ship cut apart and rebuilt. clearly, the math was not good for such a procedure, or excelsior class would have had phaser arrays in the 2340s. coming with such a large array is a major factor in the galaxy not obsoleting itself like the ambassador class did. newer ships a quarter its size have longer arrays then it does.
im sure the admirals were too stoned to care that the galaxy class enterprise got destroyed by a bop. im sure they were totally chill about that. also, it took riker another decade almost to get a command, must have felt sorry for him at that point.
I have never once seen any proof that the main phasers are more powerful than any other Phaser strip. As far as we know the smaller strips to the charge thing too. the only thing is the fire arc of those arrays. For one thing escapes your logic. If your right that they are the most powerful then why have them on the saucer rather then the stardrive/ BATTLE section?
the enterprise D only fired the main array. the technical manual explanation proves that the more emitters there are, the more powerful the best shot can be, because its a combination of all the power every emitter was storing. less emitters in the strip, less power available for the shot. dont tell me there isn't proof, there is only denial. did you not read my post? was it just to big?
maybe its called the battle section, and battle bridge, because the only time it would separate is to do battle under very particular circumstances? if the separated to mainly do some kind of scientific study, it would proboly be called the science section. placing so much value on the word battle makes my head hurt, call me when you people get over words like battle section and battleship. im not stupid enough to argue at a level this low.
People go on about tankiness, true enough and Odessey and Assault are more versatile, but then again, the threat scale makes "tanking" somewhat useless. In PvP time and again I have seen Galaxy dread pilots spout off, then in a 1v1 the ship folds like oragami. There are times I love trolling ESD chat for one of them that things they are something only to sap all their power, turn them off completely and watch them crack. The cloaking device on it is really quite useless and takes up a slot better to letting them live for an additional 5 seconds before they have been completely resistance stripped.
I am sorry to say and hurt the fan boys, but, its outdated, and cryptic will simply release something new. Never expect them to do anything to fix, buff, add too, or change with these ships.
If you are considering buying one, save your money for the next release of a ship. Its the 25th century, let the 24th century rest in peace. A Galaxy is merely a trophy and testament how Patrick Stewart carried B and C actors for so long.
we saw her use other arrays, heck one time we saw a phaser out of the torp bay. but note again doesn't prove your point. in only shows that those phaser arrays had a good firing arc so usually used when firing not they were the UBER phaserarray. so also againt why split Voyager's saucer arrays, they could easily be one, or the sov's upper saucer array. The ONLY reason i see is that it didn't matter the size of the array. just the arcs.
No, the purpose of including that is to say that all shipboard phasers run off of warp reactor power; and that power affects the strength and energy of the emitted phaser beam. Nice try, but I wasn't born yesterday.
The TNG Tech Manual never stated anything about "lower rate of fire... charging with available plasma". In fact, the only thing the Manual states about plasma is the fact that it supplies power to the phaser array system; and that a regulator monitors the incoming flow of plasma. There is NO written connection between the rate at which the phaser array fires, and the plasma flowing into the system.
I wasn't arguing against that. You stated that the shipboard phaser array length affects the firing rate. Nowhere in the TNG Tech Manual does it say that. It says that firing rate is separate from warp power; and power input affects power output of the weapon.
It does NOT say anything about "removing the warp core from that equation would not actually lower the potential damage of the main array per shot, it would just lower the rate of fire" (Your words). The amount of energy outputted by a system should not be greater than the input energy into a system. Makes sense, right? Simple physics offers that, and I can give you a quote for that too. You're saying the output > input. If this occurred as you claim it would, Star Trek would fall apart.
Incorrect. Like you said, the visible charge effect shows all of the energy passing from selected charged segments into one location, where the Beam of Death emanates from.
The TNG Tech Manual did not specify that all of the segments of the entire array are used for a phaser shot. TNG and DS9 supports this, we see the charge effect start, but not from the very ends of the array, but from the middle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCm70favfYI
Skip ahead to 1:42 (the stuff before it is the leadup to the battle). The charge-up effect starts about 25 meters left from the bow and 25 meters fore of the saucer's port axis. Second beam is even smaller than that; 50 meters below the saucer's port axis and at the end of the emitter. The distances between the two shots' initial starting points is nearly the same as the entire length of the Stardrive Section's forward phaser array; indicating that the only purpose of having an extraordinarily long phaser strip is for, as I said before, keeping the beam consistently tracking a target (TNG Tech Manual supports this!), and not for this super Death Star-esque chargeup that you claim takes up 100% of the emitters in the array.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JoQzuPjSk0
Skip ahead to 5:22 and keep hitting the pause/play button. The 1st chargeup starts at opposite ends of the array; one at the start of the array (portside) and the other, right of the forward axis. Again, even though the chargeup sequence takes a longer distance of array than the Stardrive's entire forward array, the chargeup does not use up the whole array. The 2nd shot has a much smaller chargeup distance along the array; again, the start of the array portside, and the other start point just above the ship's port axis. This shot is slightly larger than the Stardrive's main phaser array.
First, that is wrong, the Enterprise-D fired several arrays other than the main one - even firing from arrays that don't exist (Best of Both Worlds, the mysterious pylon firings). There was a Borg episode where the ventral array on the secondary hull fired a beam at a sun or something.
And like I said before, even though the whole array is there, the actual chargeup area is smaller than the entire array; in other words, in the show(s), Galaxy-class starships were consistently seen firing only a select portion of the entire array.
And there is proof. Video proof, which no one can dispute.
Again. It's likely the saucer was attached to the ship just to offer the unbroken direction of phaser fire, to allow the most effective tactic.
(P.S. Sorry if that's a lot of reading
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
The Galaxy does have phaser strips on the pylons, they are right at the curve. But i completely agree with you.
That's exactly why the Stardrive's forward array might be better suited to damage output. It has a smaller chargeup distance, true, but it can be used for multiple bursts of medium energy output, as opposed to charging the whole dorsal main array of the docked Saucer. The possible reason this isn't used is, again, because keeping the phaser beam locked on a moving target is more tactically effective.
Of course. :P
EDIT: Off topic: Scimitar stats released. http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?p=930741
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
again there's nothing to prove a larger array equals more firepower, just a better firing arc for again why would Intrepid have a split array when their is space to connect it.
Also again if theory was co9rrect why put the most powerful phasers on the part of the ship NOT planed to be in combat when split. Your theory would mean tha uber phaser should be on the Stardrive NOT the saucer. Thus your theory is proven wrong.
nor is it taking into account that a phaser array on the Sovy might use different technology that makes the larger arrays obsolete
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
simply the largest category of ship. since ALL space craft are very multipurpose, none of the purely military terms are a perfect fit. battleship was always primarily about size. if a battleship was smaller, it was then called a cruiser. no one can see past the word battle, so a stupid tangent argument has to occur, over and over and over.
that point has very little reliance, im not sure why its being dwelled on. plasma is plasma, whether generated by the warp core of impulse reactors, the change to the refit enterprise was most likely a reorganization of the EPS network on the ship. weapons are now included on the power grid along with the warp engines. regardless, there is no warp core attached to the main arrays when it is separated. thats the only point i made there, theres no conspiracy, relax.
its supply and demand. its simple logic. without the plasma generated by the core and main impulse engine, there is less for the main arrays to work with. something would have to give. whatever the manual has to say on the subject, i didn't even remember that it said anything about it, i trust though. do remember that the core makes the same plasma the impulse reactors do, its not extra special. plasma from any source, if there was enough, would fuel everything on the ship just fine, even the warp drive.
no, i did not say that, your not understanding the statement. remove the warp core from the equation refers to saucer separation. which removes the largest source of plasma, which would effect ether rate of fire, or as you say the manual sais, output. im not sure how you could misunderstand so severely. less plasma for the arrays means less array output, in some way. i think physics would agree.
EXACTLY! theres a ton of instances were there is not a full array discharge, they only use a few emitters, those shots are thus less powerful. its how they control how powerful a shot is, the number of emitters involved in the visual glow effect.
a bigger array can use more emitters per shot, big arrays win.
there is also quite a few instances of the entire arrays involved in the glow effect, even in DS9.
huh, i think i claimed this actually
a bigger array can use more emitters per shot, big arrays win.
would you like me to post a vid were we do see a galaxy use its entire array for a shot? because thee are quite a few instances were it does, any other youtube clip with the galaxy would show it. one example were it doesn't disproves nothing. it just proves that arrays work how i say they work.
that looked like a target subsystem attack, not a shoot the galor in half attack. a small number of emiters used, not the whole array. a disabled ship is much less explosive, in a tight, close quarters, fleet battle like that. if they blew that galor up at that range they would have been seriously damaged.
poor quality and inconsistent effects from like 1990. the fact that there is the glow effect at all indicates that the energy of multiple emitters is still converging at the point that fires. proving the principle ive layed out.
i supose you didnt read a few posts back when i addredssed this. i dont want to write more then i have to so i excluded this point here. darmok was an admited tech mistake. thats all it was. in BOBW, like i had said earlier, shooting every array that had line of sight, at different frequencies all at the same time, in hopes that something would deal damage is how that is explained. also, no other target would be large enough to even have those smaller arrays able to hit a target infront of it other then a borg cube.
any energy used to fire shots from smaller arrays uses energy more effectively fired from a single much more powerful beam, only able to be generated by the huge main array, with up to 200 emitters worth of power able to be fired in 1 shot. the only other time the main array was not fired, and another array was, was when they caused that solor flare that destroyed lore's borg ship. not a single additional time was a shot not fired from the main array.
True, and that's why the saucer is most likely attached to the ship during the Dominion War. If the Stardrive could manage "anti-capital beam discharges", and have an array long enough to cover most attack vectors, there would be no need for the Saucer to be there.
(Of course, there would still be saucers attached to Galaxy-class starships if there was a need for extra space, such as troops or equipment or computer command support. Which is likely why all Galaxy-class starships had them attached anyways...)
That quote was taken directly from a book which has very credible technical information on this very ship. Are you arguing against a source which might very well be considered canon? (Technically it's called "apocryphal", which Ex Astris Scientia defines as "In Star Trek fandom, the term "apocryphal" represents any information that is not canon in a narrow sense, but is by some treated like or accepted as canon. This may include The Animated Series, the books by Jeri Taylor, reference books or deleted scenes.")
Go to the forum homepage, click on "User CP" at the top left, then "Set Avatar". You'll notice there is an option to upload a custom avatar. Use the upload, don't link from a website (linking feature i broken).
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!