the new classes first seen in first contact were 2 decades in the making. created because there was a serious lack of modern designs at every ship size. they weren't created overnight, and because of the borg. the intrepid isn't from some previous era, it was one of the many new classes launches in the 2360.
actually i figure interpid maybe 2368. Voyager was the second one launch and that happened in late 2371, Same year as E-D's death. Now the Genesis of the FC era ships could have easily stated when E-D encounter the borg and Wolf 359 but they had only started production in the past couple of years, that's why so many were by Earth at the time. Both Borg attacks Starfleet had only days to assemble a fleet. so what were so many new ships doing there at the time. going through final fittings and such but were operational enough to be launched against the borg. Interpid shows a clear change in thinking with fleet. I believe she was the last of the explorer orient ships fleet was going to design for awhile. and even then her production wa slowed when Voyager was thought destroyed. In WW2 Us shipyards could produce a frieghter in 4 days. Most of the Battleships sunk at Pearl Harbor were back up and working in 2 years. Commander Shelby said that Starfleet could replace the 40 ship loss of Wolf 359 in a year. When Starfleet saw the war looming i bet they got their yards going full bore they can make ships fast.
What about the ability of the ships survival as it is bio neuarl pack and the fact it can land to conduct repairs.The sovvy was desinged for taking on the borg.
It wasn't a grat idea to have famlies on board a warship.What does the Lakota and Defiant have to do with this even they can take on the Galaxy.
You just love the Galaxy don't you.
Bio nural increase the ships reaction time to commands. so that could be a minor upgrade but a good. one.
Now a Lakota type Excel and a Defiant go toe to toe with a Galaxy. Possibly. O'brien said that Lakota's phaser were equal to those seen on a Galaxy so maybe they could have fitted Galaxy level sheilds and beefed engine performance. if Gal saucer sep it would have edge for the Lakota now has 2 targets to deal with. Defiant. Well she is design purely for combat and with her speed and manuverablility she has an edge over a galaxy ans she could get in close like she did against Regency One though the was a gigantic Neghvar the strat can still apply. We see during DS9 that they saw a problem with the Galaxy and worked on fixing it. Time was just against them so the DW Galaxy is built and i beleive after the war they would all be refitted to Venture specs, for Venture was the last pre DW era Galaxy produced. thus she's fully operational. the Dw's would eventually have the Venture strips and the science equipment installed. wether families would return that's another issue. Initally the Galaxy was supposed to explore space on ten year tours so I can see why the ship wwas designs with families in mind. ten years on the same ship people will fall in love, marry, and have kids. They ship was the most heavily armed at the time a fleet thought she was fine. Then the fact that most of the original Galaxys are destroyed in about 10 years after launch, no matter if it was plot driven destruction the simple fact Starfleets best ship of the time is getting hammered. So they have to look at what they're doing wrong and the main thing was that they had made ships of peace during a time of growing conflict.
I do like the Galaxy, but i understand what she was designed for, exploration first combat second. thus why I suggest the universal BO slots for all the bo stations. the ship above all was versitile. able to do multiple things at once. and since the Klingons have a whole line of universal Bo slotted ships why not the feds.
actually i figure interpid maybe 2368. Voyager was the second one launch and that happened in late 2371, Same year as E-D's death. Now the Genesis of the FC era ships could have easily stated when E-D encounter the borg and Wolf 359 but they had only started production in the past couple of years, that's why so many were by Earth at the time. Both Borg attacks Starfleet had only days to assemble a fleet. so what were so many new ships doing there at the time. going through final fittings and such but were operational enough to be launched against the borg. Interpid shows a clear change in thinking with fleet. I believe she was the last of the explorer orient ships fleet was going to design for awhile. and even then her production wa slowed when Voyager was thought destroyed. In WW2 Us shipyards could produce a frieghter in 4 days. Most of the Battleships sunk at Pearl Harbor were back up and working in 2 years. Commander Shelby said that Starfleet could replace the 40 ship loss of Wolf 359 in a year. When Starfleet saw the war looming i bet they got their yards going full bore they can make ships fast.
it took 20 years to design the galaxy class, it took at least 10 to design the sovereign, and between 5 and 10 for all the other new classes. theres a big difference between assembling a ship and creating a new class from scratch. most of them were proboly inspired most of all by the on and off hot wars with the cardasian since the 2350, multiple tzenkethy wars, and even a tholain war, all taking place since the 2340s when the galaxy class project began. these wars were mostly fought by excelsiors and mirandas, ships seriously starting to show their age even by then. the borg threat likely effected the development of most of these new ships to a degree, but they would have already been in progress by the mid 2360s, or already launched by then and just never seen. there is no canon launch date for nearly any of them.
'fight the borg' is just a set of tactics and technologies designed to resist their draining and holding attacks and to counter adaptation. the only ship that looks purpose built for that is the defiant, designed to have a high firepower to size and cost ratio. expendable. most of those FC ships are large cruisers, that shouts not designed just to fight the borg, but to fill the rolls a ship their size needs to fill and incorporate those 'fight the borg' technologies and tactics. even older ships can be upgraded with 'fight the borg' tech. its just tech, not some sweeping ship building change.
intrepid- basically a smaller, cheaper galaxy class, launched with several advanced new technologies, well armed for its size. i dont see how you could say this was just a crummy explorer, not a combat cruiser. i dont really see how you could say that about the galaxy ether, with the size of that main array or the amount of torpedoes it can spew, but whatever.
akira- a heavy cruiser with a few large phaser arrays and a ton of small torpedo launchers. likely the ship starfleet always wished it had when dealing with the cardasians and tzenkethy. launch date unknown, could have been right around the time the galaxy was launched, looks more like the galaxy then the sovereign.
saber- small general purpose ship, likely a direct replacement for the miranda. looks sovereign esk
norway- new destroyer, for filling roles the excelsior and miranda filled. launch date unknown, could have been any time between the galaxy and sovereign launch
steamrunner- registry numbers would indicate that this is from the 2350. might have gotten an overhaul at about the time the saber and sovereign launched, and looks similar as a result
sovereign- stated to be a replacement for the excelsior, as in when the excelsior was top of the line back 50 or more years ago. large not quite battleship sized cruiser, general purpose, has advanced technologies, likely intended to mirror the service record of the excelsior class for starfleet for the next 70-100 years. of all these new classes, proboly was in development the longest. its sharper darker design language predating ever seeing the borg.
defiant- actually built to fight the borg, actually small enough so that its couple year design time is believable
prometheus- high speedlight cruiser, a frigate or corvette squadron interceptor. advanced, but does not have the raw fire power it would need to be a serious threat to any thing the size of a heavy cruiser or larger. angular and sharp looking, instead of a collection of ovals like galaxy, akira, and intrepid.
Bio nural increase the ships reaction time to commands. so that could be a minor upgrade but a good. one.
Now a Lakota type Excel and a Defiant go toe to toe with a Galaxy. Possibly. O'brien said that Lakota's phaser were equal to those seen on a Galaxy so maybe they could have fitted Galaxy level sheilds and beefed engine performance. if Gal saucer sep it would have edge for the Lakota now has 2 targets to deal with.
no, no, no, no. not even remotely close. "thats a lot of firepower for an excelsior class ship", is all obrian said. the tiny defiant is a match for an old cruiser 60 times its size with weapons uprated as high as they could be. good for both of them. a galaxy could proboly destroy 5 lakotas, they arent even close, they dont even have phaser arrays. separating the saucer separates the main array from the warp core, your left with 2 inferior combat sections compared to a complete galaxy class.
Defiant. Well she is design purely for combat and with her speed and manuverablility she has an edge over a galaxy ans she could get in close like she did against Regency One though the was a gigantic Neghvar the strat can still apply.
the main array has a fireing arc of anything it has line of sight with. theres no were for it to hide. the only blind spots are directly below or behind the secondary hull, or between the naccels. and there are 4 small arrays covering every one of those blind spots.
We see during DS9 that they saw a problem with the Galaxy and worked on fixing it. Time was just against them so the DW Galaxy is built and i beleive after the war they would all be refitted to Venture specs, for Venture was the last pre DW era Galaxy produced. thus she's fully operational. the Dw's would eventually have the Venture strips and the science equipment installed. wether families would return that's another issue. Initally the Galaxy was supposed to explore space on ten year tours so I can see why the ship wwas designs with families in mind. ten years on the same ship people will fall in love, marry, and have kids. They ship was the most heavily armed at the time a fleet thought she was fine. Then the fact that most of the original Galaxys are destroyed in about 10 years after launch, no matter if it was plot driven destruction the simple fact Starfleets best ship of the time is getting hammered. So they have to look at what they're doing wrong and the main thing was that they had made ships of peace during a time of growing conflict.
I do like the Galaxy, but i understand what she was designed for, exploration first combat second. thus why I suggest the universal BO slots for all the bo stations. the ship above all was versitile. able to do multiple things at once. and since the Klingons have a whole line of universal Bo slotted ships why not the feds.
the galaxy was built to have 70% of its internal space modular, so it could be set up to be ether a peace time explorer, or a war time battleship. thats what it was built for. regardless, its always armed with the largest and most powerful phaser arrays, and the highest volume torpedo launchers of any starfleet ship in all of canon, and its the largest starfleet ship by more then a factor of 2. even kitted out for peace time its provocative that it even exists, its so powerful.
it took 20 years to design the galaxy class, it took at least 10 to design the sovereign, and between 5 and 10 for all the other new classes. theres a big difference between assembling a ship and creating a new class from scratch. most of them were proboly inspired most of all by the on and off hot wars with the cardasian since the 2350, multiple tzenkethy wars, and even a tholain war, all taking place since the 2340s when the galaxy class project began. these wars were mostly fought by excelsiors and mirandas, ships seriously starting to show their age even by then. the borg threat likely effected the development of most of these new ships to a degree, but they would have already been in progress by the mid 2360s, or already launched by then and just never seen. there is no canon launch date for nearly any of them.
'fight the borg' is just a set of tactics and technologies designed to resist their draining and holding attacks and to counter adaptation. the only ship that looks purpose built for that is the defiant, designed to have a high firepower to size and cost ratio. expendable. most of those FC ships are large cruisers, that shouts not designed just to fight the borg, but to fill the rolls a ship their size needs to fill and incorporate those 'fight the borg' technologies and tactics. even older ships can be upgraded with 'fight the borg' tech. its just tech, not some sweeping ship building change.
intrepid- basically a smaller, cheaper galaxy class, launched with several advanced new technologies, well armed for its size. i dont see how you could say this was just a crummy explorer, not a combat cruiser. i dont really see how you could say that about the galaxy ether, with the size of that main array or the amount of torpedoes it can spew, but whatever.
akira- a heavy cruiser with a few large phaser arrays and a ton of small torpedo launchers. likely the ship starfleet always wished it had when dealing with the cardasians and tzenkethy. launch date unknown, could have been right around the time the galaxy was launched, looks more like the galaxy then the sovereign.
saber- small general purpose ship, likely a direct replacement for the miranda. looks sovereign esk
norway- new destroyer, for filling roles the excelsior and miranda filled. launch date unknown, could have been any time between the galaxy and sovereign launch
steamrunner- registry numbers would indicate that this is from the 2350. might have gotten an overhaul at about the time the saber and sovereign launched, and looks similar as a result
sovereign- stated to be a replacement for the excelsior, as in when the excelsior was top of the line back 50 or more years ago. large not quite battleship sized cruiser, general purpose, has advanced technologies, likely intended to mirror the service record of the excelsior class for starfleet for the next 70-100 years. of all these new classes, proboly was in development the longest. its sharper darker design language predating ever seeing the borg.
defiant- actually built to fight the borg, actually small enough so that its couple year design time is believable
prometheus- high speedlight cruiser, a frigate or corvette squadron interceptor. advanced, but does not have the raw fire power it would need to be a serious threat to any thing the size of a heavy cruiser or larger. angular and sharp looking, instead of a collection of ovals like galaxy, akira, and intrepid.
no, no, no, no. not even remotely close. "thats a lot of firepower for an excelsior class ship", is all obrian said. the tiny defiant is a match for an old cruiser 60 times its size with weapons uprated as high as they could be. good for both of them. a galaxy could proboly destroy 5 lakotas, they arent even close, they dont even have phaser arrays. separating the saucer separates the main array from the warp core, your left with 2 inferior combat sections compared to a complete galaxy class.
the main array has a fireing arc of anything it has line of sight with. theres no were for it to hide. the only blind spots are directly below or behind the secondary hull, or between the naccels. and there are 4 small arrays covering every one of those blind spots.
the galaxy was built to have 70% of its internal space modular, so it could be set up to be ether a peace time explorer, or a war time battleship. thats what it was built for. regardless, its always armed with the largest and most powerful phaser arrays, and the highest volume torpedo launchers of any starfleet ship in all of canon, and its the largest starfleet ship by more then a factor of 2. even kitted out for peace time its provocative that it even exists, its so powerful.
I said combat oriented, the borg was just one aspect of it for FC era ships. And okay Lakota wasn't stated on their to have Galaxy level phasers. but they were more powerful, could they be at Galaxy level. Maybe. And arrays over turrets is just better cooldown and firing arc. And phaser able to fit in their will work and note she did do a number on the Defiant. A ship solely designed for combat. And A gal an hit a Defiant, but if the Defiant is being very manuverable she could do damage.
No Intrepid isn't a cheaper Galaxy, Nebula is. Intrepid was an experiment to have a more manuverable cruiser. THey galaxy can be made more combat orient i never said she couldn't she just had an inherit flaw she had no control over. She IS among the most powerful but she was design during an era of peace. Again the wars you mention there is no date on when they started or ended but they could have been short wars. I relate them to First Gulf War in duration.
And I'm saying that people have let the shiny factor get into their eyes to much.
The ship is impressive, but she is not the Battleship that the Galaxy class is.
more antifan fanon. battleships is the term that describes the largest and most heavily armed type of ship. im not sure what restrictive metric you judge the term by, but it fits that criteria. in yesterdays enterprise, you see a galaxy class set up to be a battleship, not an explorer. there is no exterior difference, it was designed to fill any role, to be configured for any role between science vessel and dedicated combat battleship.
I am using anti-fan fanon? I'm not the one claiming that either the Galaxy or the Sovereign are battleships. neither class are. A battleships main and only purpose is to be the most destructive and imposing type of ship, no science labs, no ball rooms, etc... No matter how much you love the Galaxy, both ships are just cruisers and cruisers are not battleships.
it sure did separate when it went into battle a lot didn't it? oh wait it didn't, there was just that 1 time in season 1. and that wasnt to fight off a powerful foe, just one that was invisible and could attack at will with impunity. the civilians were safe from its harassment wile the star drive section, that by itself proboly had about the combat potential of an ambassador class, look the hits and dealt with the attacker. the saucer seperation was not something that improved combat ability. doesn't mater much in game, it turns better separated. theres is nothing in game that correctly represents large phaser arrays, so theres no disadvantage other then a bit less hitpoints. the beam arrays in game? accurate representation of the tiny aft arrays on the stardrive section, not the large arrays on large federation ships. the galaxy should be fireing a single BO 3 every 2 seconds from its forward arrays in game, that would be accurate
with how phaser arrays work, assuming they got most of their power from the warp core, the separated saucer would have the same potential firepower, just less rate of fire. each of the 200 emitters holds its own charge like a battery, and can contribute its energy to the fireing point. the more emitters involved in this, the more powerful the best shot can be. it would just be a question of how long it would take to charge all the emitters from just the impulse reactors.
If the saucer seperation didnt improve the ships tactical ability, why was the Galaxies stardrive bridge is called the "battle-bridge"? Is that because its where the battle-of-the-bands is held? Remember the renegade Klingons in "Heart of Glory" season 1 of TNG speaking about how when the saucers section with Worf:
"KORRIS: We have heard this ship can separate in time of battle.
WORF: Yes. When relieved of its bulk, the Enterprise becomes an exceptional weapon. "
The ship is designed to fight without its saucer, not with it.
The Galaxy class has been stated as being a Battleship in 3 unrelated episodes.
Yesterday's Enterprise
All Good Things
Conundrum
Yesterday's Enterprise and All Good Things can be placed in the Alternate Reality realm.
In the episode Conundrum the ship was classified as a Battleship based on her specifications.
So yes, she is a battleship.
Canon backs it.
As a side note, the ship carried civilians due to its nature of being a long term exploration vessel.
Capable of ten year missions.
In the TNG Episode "When the bough breaks" Dr. Crusher is seen telling the parents that they knew the risks involved with bringing their families and children with them.
The ship was no luxury liner. She was meant to be capable of encountering the unknown and holding her own.
Whether that was thru Science, Diplomacy, Investigation or Combat. She was equipped to do it all.
Even being a mobile star base if needed in remote regions of Federation influence.
it took 20 years to design the galaxy class, it took at least 10 to design the sovereign, and between 5 and 10 for all the other new classes. theres a big difference between assembling a ship and creating a new class from scratch. most of them were proboly inspired most of all by the on and off hot wars with the cardasian since the 2350, multiple tzenkethy wars, and even a tholain war, all taking place since the 2340s when the galaxy class project began. these wars were mostly fought by excelsiors and mirandas, ships seriously starting to show their age even by then. the borg threat likely effected the development of most of these new ships to a degree, but they would have already been in progress by the mid 2360s, or already launched by then and just never seen. there is no canon launch date for nearly any of them.
'fight the borg' is just a set of tactics and technologies designed to resist their draining and holding attacks and to counter adaptation. the only ship that looks purpose built for that is the defiant, designed to have a high firepower to size and cost ratio. expendable. most of those FC ships are large cruisers, that shouts not designed just to fight the borg, but to fill the rolls a ship their size needs to fill and incorporate those 'fight the borg' technologies and tactics. even older ships can be upgraded with 'fight the borg' tech. its just tech, not some sweeping ship building change.
intrepid- basically a smaller, cheaper galaxy class, launched with several advanced new technologies, well armed for its size. i dont see how you could say this was just a crummy explorer, not a combat cruiser. i dont really see how you could say that about the galaxy ether, with the size of that main array or the amount of torpedoes it can spew, but whatever.
akira- a heavy cruiser with a few large phaser arrays and a ton of small torpedo launchers. likely the ship starfleet always wished it had when dealing with the cardasians and tzenkethy. launch date unknown, could have been right around the time the galaxy was launched, looks more like the galaxy then the sovereign.
saber- small general purpose ship, likely a direct replacement for the miranda. looks sovereign esk
norway- new destroyer, for filling roles the excelsior and miranda filled. launch date unknown, could have been any time between the galaxy and sovereign launch
steamrunner- registry numbers would indicate that this is from the 2350. might have gotten an overhaul at about the time the saber and sovereign launched, and looks similar as a result
sovereign- stated to be a replacement for the excelsior, as in when the excelsior was top of the line back 50 or more years ago. large not quite battleship sized cruiser, general purpose, has advanced technologies, likely intended to mirror the service record of the excelsior class for starfleet for the next 70-100 years. of all these new classes, proboly was in development the longest. its sharper darker design language predating ever seeing the borg.
defiant- actually built to fight the borg, actually small enough so that its couple year design time is believable
prometheus- high speedlight cruiser, a frigate or corvette squadron interceptor. advanced, but does not have the raw fire power it would need to be a serious threat to any thing the size of a heavy cruiser or larger. angular and sharp looking, instead of a collection of ovals like galaxy, akira, and intrepid.
no, no, no, no. not even remotely close. "thats a lot of firepower for an excelsior class ship", is all obrian said. the tiny defiant is a match for an old cruiser 60 times its size with weapons uprated as high as they could be. good for both of them. a galaxy could proboly destroy 5 lakotas, they arent even close, they dont even have phaser arrays. separating the saucer separates the main array from the warp core, your left with 2 inferior combat sections compared to a complete galaxy class.
the main array has a fireing arc of anything it has line of sight with. theres no were for it to hide. the only blind spots are directly below or behind the secondary hull, or between the naccels. and there are 4 small arrays covering every one of those blind spots.
the galaxy was built to have 70% of its internal space modular, so it could be set up to be ether a peace time explorer, or a war time battleship. thats what it was built for. regardless, its always armed with the largest and most powerful phaser arrays, and the highest volume torpedo launchers of any starfleet ship in all of canon, and its the largest starfleet ship by more then a factor of 2. even kitted out for peace time its provocative that it even exists, its so powerful.
Also The Sovereign from what I've read was a long term research project going back decades. The idea was if Starfleet needed a Battle Cruiser fast The Sovereign would be the answer. Through that time a design team you look at the current incarnation of the Sovereign and redesign it with new tech that they have tested on other classes. in the late 2360's they said to bring her out with the last round of design.
The Galaxy class has been stated as being a Battleship in 3 unrelated episodes.
Yesterday's Enterprise
All Good Things
Conundrum
Yesterday's Enterprise and All Good Things can be placed in the Alternate Reality realm.
In the episode Conundrum the ship was classified as a Battleship based on her specifications.
So yes, she is a battleship.
Canon backs it.
I'llsay she and Sovie are the closest things the feds have to battleships. I think Fed mentaility is coming into play there. Starfleet has always been a hybrid Military and science organization. THeir main goals is to explore space and protect the federation. and there ships reveal that. Defiant was the first real warship they ever built. all there other ships had both war and peace time roles.
As for a the galaxy not seperating all the time. again Staarfleet general doesn't start conflicts so a spur of the moment fight they wouldn't split. for it would take minutes to move the civilians to saucer and seprerate. Nearly all the times we saw that manuvuer was before a planned battle. the only exceptions are Encounter at Farpoint and Generations.
If the saucer seperation didnt improve the ships tactical ability, why was the Galaxies stardrive bridge is called the "battle-bridge"? Is that because its where the battle-of-the-bands is held? Remember the renegade Klingons in "Heart of Glory" season 1 of TNG speaking about how when the saucers section with Worf:
"KORRIS: We have heard this ship can separate in time of battle.
WORF: Yes. When relieved of its bulk, the Enterprise becomes an exceptional weapon. "
The ship is designed to fight without its saucer, not with it.
It has been called several names.
Perhaps its being called the Battle Bridge is a reflection of the capabilities of the ship without the saucer. Without the saucer section the stardrive is essentially just a flying weapon.
It has an engine, shields, phasers, two oversized torpedo tubes and not much else.
It essentially becomes a large escort like vessel.
As for your comment about the ship being designed to fight without the saucer.
All evidence to the contrary.
It has been seen at its most effective while functioning as a whole.
It inflicted the bulk of its damage against the Borg Cube as a complete vessel and the separation later on was purely as a distraction based on a known stratagem by Picard.
She doesn't separate in Yesterday's Enterprise when having an additional target may have been an advantage. Nor in any DS9 Dominion War episodes where her full combat capabilities would have been in need.
So yes Worf is correct.
Without the Saucer section she becomes an overgunned and exceptionally maneuverable ship.
Or an "exceptional weapon"
I'llsay she and Sovie are the closest things the feds have to battleships. I think Fed mentaility is coming into play there. Starfleet has always been a hybrid Military and science organization. THeir main goals is to explore space and protect the federation. and there ships reveal that. Defiant was the first real warship they ever built. all there other ships had both war and peace time roles.
As for a the galaxy not seperating all the time. again Staarfleet general doesn't start conflicts so a spur of the moment fight they wouldn't split. for it would take minutes to move the civilians to saucer and seprerate. Nearly all the times we saw that manuvuer was before a planned battle. the only exceptions are Encounter at Farpoint and Generations.
The Sovereign has never been stated as being a ship of war. Nor a battleship. Yes I understand the restrictions here, movies vs 7 seasons. So its somewhat of a slanted debate to begin with. While I personally believe that the Sovereign at launch had a more powerful phaser array than the Galaxy at her launch, there isn't a reason to not give the Galaxy MkXII Arrays. Especially when you consider that she already had MKXI in Generations. Simply put, the Sovereign doesn't have the bulk to be a battleship. And would be hardpressed to even be considered a battle-cruiser if not for the extreme emphasis placed on the number of Torpedo tubes incorporated into her design.
Again I point to the Dominion War episodes of DS9. Those were pre-planned engagements where all available firepower and advantages would have been being asked for.
Also in TNG there were several times where conflict was not just anticipated but expected, and again the ship did not separate.
It has been called several names.
Perhaps its being called the Battle Bridge is a reflection of the capabilities of the ship without the saucer. Without the saucer section the stardrive is essentially just a flying weapon.
It has an engine, shields, phasers, two oversized torpedo tubes and not much else.
It essentially becomes a large escort like vessel.
As for your comment about the ship being designed to fight without the saucer.
All evidence to the contrary.
It has been seen at its most effective while functioning as a whole.
It inflicted the bulk of its damage against the Borg Cube as a complete vessel and the separation later on was purely as a distraction based on a known stratagem by Picard.
She doesn't separate in Yesterday's Enterprise when having an additional target may have been an advantage. Nor in any DS9 Dominion War episodes where her full combat capabilities would have been in need.
So yes Worf is correct.
Without the Saucer section she becomes an overgunned and exceptionally maneuverable ship.
Or an "exceptional weapon"
Again I point to the Dominion War episodes of DS9. Those were pre-planned engagements where all available firepower and advantages would have been being asked for.
Also in TNG there were several times where conflict was not just anticipated but expected, and again the ship did not separate.
Note the DW galaxy were only battle capable, not fully functional so saucer sep may not be availible. also note the Saucer doesn't not have a warp drive so it would have to seperate at battle area. It was also likely it was cheaper to keep the gal togethor for the show than split her.
defiants a corvette at most a frigate.
not a battleship.
battleship = huge armoured ship with massive guns. defiant is closer to a pt boat than a battleship.
a soyuz would be a better battleship if you account for tech, since it actually has those massive cannons attached and was an actual destroyer.
an akira would just be a better battleship than a defiant, despite still only being a torpedo cruiser.
its fight against the excel, one of ds9's big plot armor moments, that would have been another red squad moment.
Note i NEVER said Defiant was a Battleship and said she was a WARSHIP, meaning she was designed solely for combat. And note also as a compact warship she is powerful for her size. Valiant had two problems going for it. One she was still damaged from the first battle. When Nog got on board she could only go Warp 3, A Defiant is capable of Warp 8 under normal circumstances.
Two, Red Squad was still a bunch of inexperience cadets.
Also The Dominion battleships is huge and all warship. Galaxy is a powerful ship but multiroled so a Dom battleship is more powerful than a gal.
Yesterday's Enterprise would be a battle ship/ troop transport since she was design in time of war and she reflected it for that was Starfleet mentaility. so toe to toe with a prime universe Gal the Y-E has edge but the Prime has better living conditions.
Actually, the Defiant is more akin to a heavily built submarine. It can cloak (submerge), deal great damage to ships much larger than itself (HY torpedoes, and nowadays, nuclear warheads), and if caught, it can't take as much damage as a Galaxy-class (sinks).
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
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Actually, the Defiant is more akin to a heavily built submarine. It can cloak (submerge), deal great damage to ships much larger than itself (HY torpedoes, and nowadays, nuclear warheads), and if caught, it can't take as much damage as a Galaxy-class (sinks).
But only THE Defiant is allowed to cloak, the rest can't by treaty
But only THE Defiant is allowed to cloak, the rest can't by treaty
That is true. I'm pretty sure the second Defiant couldn't cloak, and for sure the Valiant doesn't.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
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That is true. I'm pretty sure the second Defiant couldn't cloak, and for sure the Valiant doesn't.
he Second Defiant could havbe cloaked since she was renamed Defiant and perhaps the treaty allowed it. but the Mp Defiants will not have it. Sto makes the exception considering the choas of the RSE at the time.
he Second Defiant could havbe cloaked since she was renamed Defiant and perhaps the treaty allowed it. but the Mp Defiants will not have it. Sto makes the exception considering the choas of the RSE at the time.
Possibly. If the second Defiant was actually seen cloaking, then that would be the second of only two Federation ships "allowed" to cloak. Which is good. I wouldn't want Picard's speech in TNG: "Pegasus" to go to waste.
As for STO, that's not canon, and I won't count that.
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Note the DW galaxy were only battle capable, not fully functional so saucer sep may not be availible. also note the Saucer doesn't not have a warp drive so it would have to seperate at battle area. It was also likely it was cheaper to keep the gal togethor for the show than split her.
The Saucer could have been left at starbase prior to the launching of the fleet. So that theory doesn't hold water and sinks.
Also, just building the stardrive section would have been the cheapest way of launching a Galaxy for combat. So if what some are saying is true of the Galaxy, that she is a floating luxury liner or that the stardrive section is where it is really at, then why bother attaching the saucer at all? So I disagree again that the stardrive was the superior combat vessel.
I do however agree that it was likely cheaper for the producers to use a complete Galaxy model instead.
The Saucer Separation is a part of the superstructure. She literally can't leave starbase without it
Note i NEVER said Defiant was a Battleship and said she was a WARSHIP, meaning she was designed solely for combat. And note also as a compact warship she is powerful for her size. Valiant had two problems going for it. One she was still damaged from the first battle. When Nog got on board she could only go Warp 3, A Defiant is capable of Warp 8 under normal circumstances.
Two, Red Squad was still a bunch of inexperience cadets.
Also The Dominion battleships is huge and all warship. Galaxy is a powerful ship but multiroled so a Dom battleship is more powerful than a gal.
Yesterday's Enterprise would be a battle ship/ troop transport since she was design in time of war and she reflected it for that was Starfleet mentaility. so toe to toe with a prime universe Gal the Y-E has edge but the Prime has better living conditions.
Regardless of damage or crew, a Defiant is no match for a Dominion Battleship.
Not even a Negh'Var could take on one of those beasts in a one on one fight.
I don't know about the comparison between the two ships between realities.
While I do believe that the Y-E would likely have the edge in combat, I am curious as to what changes they would have made. I'm thinking more redundancies, armor, additional torpedo tubes perhaps?
The Saucer could have been left at starbase prior to the launching of the fleet. So that theory doesn't hold water and sinks.
Also, just building the stardrive section would have been the cheapest way of launching a Galaxy for combat. So if what some are saying is true of the Galaxy, that she is a floating luxury liner or that the stardrive section is where it is really at, then why bother attaching the saucer at all? So I disagree again that the stardrive was the superior combat vessel.
I do however agree that it was likely cheaper for the producers to use a complete Galaxy model instead.
The Saucer Separation is a part of the superstructure. She literally can't leave starbase without it
Regardless of damage or crew, a Defiant is no match for a Dominion Battleship.
Not even a Negh'Var could take on one of those beasts in a one on one fight.
I don't know about the comparison between the two ships between realities.
While I do believe that the Y-E would likely have the edge in combat, I am curious as to what changes they would have made. I'm thinking more redundancies, armor, additional torpedo tubes perhaps?
Perhaps it could have been left at starbase. But a DW Galaxy could be smilar to Y-E Galaxy by holding troops which the saucer is useful for. Also it is likely the Galaxys were given to veteran Captains who are not use to the tactic. in all Picard used it once, Geordi once, Riker Twice and Riker is known for unorthodox tactics.
And I agree Defiants are no match for Battleships but they have the firepower of the battlecruiser in it's tiny hull
Perhaps it could have been left at starbase. But a DW Galaxy could be smilar to Y-E Galaxy by holding troops which the saucer is useful for. Also it is likely the Galaxys were given to veteran Captains who are not use to the tactic. in all Picard used it once, Geordi once, Riker Twice and Riker is known for unorthodox tactics.
And I agree Defiants are no match for Battleships but they have the firepower of the battlecruiser in it's tiny hull
No troops were needed in those engagements.
Pure space battle. Also a Veteran Captain should be more than capable of handling such a maneuver and tactic. That said. Removing the Saucer wouldn't present a challenge tactically.
It's still a ship that adheres to all the same laws as every other ship out there.
You'd be hard pressed to put that kind of firepower into a 120m frame +)
She does pack a wallop though. I suspect that she would really shine when used in greater numbers akin to the BoP strategies. Send in a wing of 3 or 4 and watch them pummel a target before breaking formation and reforming behind your own lines. Would be pretty devastating.
There are several plausible reasons for why DW era Galaxy-class starships had their saucers attached.
1) Existing Galaxy's might as well keep their saucer facilities attached. The large phaser arrays are also a benefit.
2) There are issues with crewing and the space available for crew in the Star drive. Sure they can work there, but is there space for 500 crew for months of service?
3) The shield grid may be weaker without the saucer attached. The saucer has a greater surface area, and surface area is used by starship shield grid systems to generate the shield bubble.
4) Problems with long-term warp. The ship is designed to be with a saucer attached for regular warp speed operations. Perhaps there are some fuel concerns with running the ship without the big wide saucer.
5) Troop transport. After all, AR 558 needs more troops. Got room in the Star drive?
6) Turn rate. We see Galaxy's with the saucer engines running all the time in DS9, as opposed to TNG. Perhaps it has something to do with sunlight thrust or required turn speed (although reduced mass from No-Saucer would make this redundant?)
7) Shuttle bay services. Just in case missions require the use of the very large hangar deck on the Saucer.
8) Command / Computing services. TNG Tech Manual says there are two computer cores in the saucer, compared to one on the Star drive. If the Galaxy class is in a command role, they might need the extra processing power separate from tactical and defensive systems.
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The Saucer could have been left at starbase prior to the launching of the fleet. So that theory doesn't hold water and sinks.
Also, just building the stardrive section would have been the cheapest way of launching a Galaxy for combat. So if what some are saying is true of the Galaxy, that she is a floating luxury liner or that the stardrive section is where it is really at, then why bother attaching the saucer at all? So I disagree again that the stardrive was the superior combat vessel.
I do however agree that it was likely cheaper for the producers to use a complete Galaxy model instead.
The Saucer Separation is a part of the superstructure. She literally can't leave starbase without it
Regardless of damage or crew, a Defiant is no match for a Dominion Battleship.
Not even a Negh'Var could take on one of those beasts in a one on one fight.
I don't know about the comparison between the two ships between realities.
While I do believe that the Y-E would likely have the edge in combat, I am curious as to what changes they would have made. I'm thinking more redundancies, armor, additional torpedo tubes perhaps?
you said "I'llsay she and Sovie are the closest things the feds have to battleships".
im pointing out htat statment as wrong, the sovvie.... at a stretch, but the defiant, is tiny, and nothing in its claimed design focus changes that.
thats a good point.
arent the main duterium stores in the saucer?
By Dominion War The Sovie and the gal are the biggest ships in the fleet, and the most powerful. Thus the closest thing they have to battleships.
There are several plausible reasons for why DW era Galaxy-class starships had their saucers attached.
1) Existing Galaxy's might as well keep their saucer facilities attached. The large phaser arrays are also a benefit.
2) There are issues with crewing and the space available for crew in the Star drive. Sure they can work there, but is there space for 500 crew for months of service?
3) The shield grid may be weaker without the saucer attached. The saucer has a greater surface area, and surface area is used by starship shield grid systems to generate the shield bubble.
4) Problems with long-term warp. The ship is designed to be with a saucer attached for regular warp speed operations. Perhaps there are some fuel concerns with running the ship without the big wide saucer.
5) Troop transport. After all, AR 558 needs more troops. Got room in the Star drive?
6) Turn rate. We see Galaxy's with the saucer engines running all the time in DS9, as opposed to TNG. Perhaps it has something to do with sunlight thrust or required turn speed (although reduced mass from No-Saucer would make this redundant?)
7) Shuttle bay services. Just in case missions require the use of the very large hangar deck on the Saucer.
8) Command / Computing services. TNG Tech Manual says there are two computer cores in the saucer, compared to one on the Star drive. If the Galaxy class is in a command role, they might need the extra processing power separate from tactical and defensive systems.
It's not that they "failed". They just haven't been heard by the Devs; or the Devs don't care about the opinions of a few select people. Which is perfectly within their rights as the designers of this successful video game.
Hypothetical scenario. Say the Devs actually care about changing the ship. They publicly apologize for the ship we have had for the past 3 years, and vow to change it.
The Devs decide to swap the Ambassador and Galaxy. Ambassador owners now have the ship stats of the Galaxy. Galaxy owners now have their ships with the stats of the Ambassador.
Imagine how disappointed, enraged, furious the Ambassador and Fleet Ambassador owners would be. Their ship has effectively been hit by the hardest ship nerf in the history of this game! Their ships now have TRIBBLE turn rates, bad BOFF seating, etc., and it even doesn't have any special console to go with it, to at least try and make up for the shortcomings of the nerfed Ambassador. Complaints issue forth on this forum and to Customer Service about how their ship, which some have paid real money for (FSMs via C-Store), has been sharply decreased in effectiveness.
This is precisely why Cryptic's Devs can't just say "Well let's just swap the ship looks/stats!", because no matter what change they make, it affects a great deal of customers in their game. And they can't change the current Galaxy layout, because they need something to fill that setup, just like the Defiant and Intrepid have virtually the same type of layout (Cmdr/LtCmdr/Ens X | Lt Y | Lt Z), just in a different form.
I just wanted to put that hypothetical scenario out there, as any change that the Devs make affects a great deal of players. Be careful what you wish for; you may find a lot of hate coming your way from a group of people negatively affected by a change you requested.
Well that fact of the matter is, they actually shouldn't have to make the Galaxy into the Ambassador. Overall, Cruisers should generally be more powerful then what they are. The best way to do this is simply to reduce the damage that players put out or introduce a new "Expertise" stat that would allow you to get added resistances to player damage etc.
The problem isn't really the galaxy, the problem is actually the whole game. Escorts can do far too much, they can tank and put out insane DPS and this problem, if not fixed will eventually bury the game. Beams need an increase in damage output and cannons need to have significantly more power drain to limit the number that people can put on their ship.
I think the Galaxy is an ideal prototype for side mounted weaponry as well, Saucer Seperation also needs improving to put it up there with the Chevron Seperation of the Odyssey.
All these people saying "The Galaxy is not a warship"... maybe not during TNG but REMEMBER during TNG, it was a new class and there were only 6 of them. They BECAME warships during the Dominion War and STO should be better at reflecting this.
Its very easy to figure out why they didnt seperate in the dominion wars.
1) In TNG they seperated because they had family on board and combat was not planned. In DS9 the battles were planned thus knowing your going into combat means leaving everyone else at a starbase.
2) In TNG the Ent-D was alone and needed the mobility. In DS9 the galaxys were part of fleets holding formations thus mobility wasnt nessary.
If Cryptic had stuck with the original model of cruisers being tanks when the game 1st launched then looking at the free ships at Rear Admiral Lower Half the Sovereign and the Star Cruiser the Galaxy-r does fit in with those ships, although being a ship you drop 2000 zen on it should be slightly better than a ship you get free.
Where it all went wrong is the introduction of the Excelsior, the Regent, the Odyssey and the Ambassador on the Fed side. All these ships have far better boff setups, are more flexible in there roles as tanks, healers and combat vessels. The Galaxy in comparison to these ships is the worst ship out of the 4 of them. It is not a plus 1 Z-Store ship when compared to other Z-Store ships.
Examples.
Lt. Cmd : Sabre vs Gladius and Nova vs Rhode Island def improvement over the free ships
Command : Akira vs Thunderchild Nebula vs Nebula Excelsior vs Excelsior again improvements between free and chargeable ships
Captain : Galaxy vs Venture Intrepid vs Intrepid
So then we get to VA and look at the Galaxy-r compare her to the other VA cruisers in the Z-Store and quick frankly we have been sold a Rear Admiral Lower Half ship disguised as a VA ship.
So she needs to be brought up to VA standards and my boff suggestion is for the Gal-r
She doesn't step on the Odyssey, Regent or Excelsiors toes with the ability to have a Lt. Cmd tactical station or the Ambassadors by having a Lt. Cmd Science station. But she does have the ability to be dam more flexible with the universal Lt. seat Sci build or tactical build.
If Cryptic had stuck with the original model of cruisers being tanks when the game 1st launched then looking at the free ships at Rear Admiral Lower Half the Sovereign and the Star Cruiser the Galaxy-r does fit in with those ships, although being a ship you drop 2000 zen on it should be slightly better than a ship you get free.
Where it all went wrong is the introduction of the Excelsior, the Regent, the Odyssey and the Ambassador on the Fed side. All these ships have far better boff setups, are more flexible in there roles as tanks, healers and combat vessels. The Galaxy in comparison to these ships is the worst ship out of the 4 of them. It is not a plus 1 Z-Store ship when compared to other Z-Store ships.
Examples.
Lt. Cmd : Sabre vs Gladius and Nova vs Rhode Island def improvement over the free ships
Command : Akira vs Thunderchild Nebula vs Nebula Excelsior vs Excelsior again improvements between free and chargeable ships
Captain : Galaxy vs Venture Intrepid vs Intrepid
So then we get to VA and look at the Galaxy-r compare her to the other VA cruisers in the Z-Store and quick frankly we have been sold a Rear Admiral Lower Half ship disguised as a VA ship.
So she needs to be brought up to VA standards and my boff suggestion is for the Gal-r
She doesn't step on the Odyssey, Regent or Excelsiors toes with the ability to have a Lt. Cmd tactical station or the Ambassadors by having a Lt. Cmd Science station. But she does have the ability to be dam more flexible with the universal Lt. seat Sci build or tactical build.
One of the best solutions I've heard on here. True fans of the Galaxy do not want it to be like the Defiant, we just want a more flexible build to be able to fly it competitively.
Comments
actually i figure interpid maybe 2368. Voyager was the second one launch and that happened in late 2371, Same year as E-D's death. Now the Genesis of the FC era ships could have easily stated when E-D encounter the borg and Wolf 359 but they had only started production in the past couple of years, that's why so many were by Earth at the time. Both Borg attacks Starfleet had only days to assemble a fleet. so what were so many new ships doing there at the time. going through final fittings and such but were operational enough to be launched against the borg. Interpid shows a clear change in thinking with fleet. I believe she was the last of the explorer orient ships fleet was going to design for awhile. and even then her production wa slowed when Voyager was thought destroyed. In WW2 Us shipyards could produce a frieghter in 4 days. Most of the Battleships sunk at Pearl Harbor were back up and working in 2 years. Commander Shelby said that Starfleet could replace the 40 ship loss of Wolf 359 in a year. When Starfleet saw the war looming i bet they got their yards going full bore they can make ships fast.
Bio nural increase the ships reaction time to commands. so that could be a minor upgrade but a good. one.
Now a Lakota type Excel and a Defiant go toe to toe with a Galaxy. Possibly. O'brien said that Lakota's phaser were equal to those seen on a Galaxy so maybe they could have fitted Galaxy level sheilds and beefed engine performance. if Gal saucer sep it would have edge for the Lakota now has 2 targets to deal with. Defiant. Well she is design purely for combat and with her speed and manuverablility she has an edge over a galaxy ans she could get in close like she did against Regency One though the was a gigantic Neghvar the strat can still apply. We see during DS9 that they saw a problem with the Galaxy and worked on fixing it. Time was just against them so the DW Galaxy is built and i beleive after the war they would all be refitted to Venture specs, for Venture was the last pre DW era Galaxy produced. thus she's fully operational. the Dw's would eventually have the Venture strips and the science equipment installed. wether families would return that's another issue. Initally the Galaxy was supposed to explore space on ten year tours so I can see why the ship wwas designs with families in mind. ten years on the same ship people will fall in love, marry, and have kids. They ship was the most heavily armed at the time a fleet thought she was fine. Then the fact that most of the original Galaxys are destroyed in about 10 years after launch, no matter if it was plot driven destruction the simple fact Starfleets best ship of the time is getting hammered. So they have to look at what they're doing wrong and the main thing was that they had made ships of peace during a time of growing conflict.
I do like the Galaxy, but i understand what she was designed for, exploration first combat second. thus why I suggest the universal BO slots for all the bo stations. the ship above all was versitile. able to do multiple things at once. and since the Klingons have a whole line of universal Bo slotted ships why not the feds.
it took 20 years to design the galaxy class, it took at least 10 to design the sovereign, and between 5 and 10 for all the other new classes. theres a big difference between assembling a ship and creating a new class from scratch. most of them were proboly inspired most of all by the on and off hot wars with the cardasian since the 2350, multiple tzenkethy wars, and even a tholain war, all taking place since the 2340s when the galaxy class project began. these wars were mostly fought by excelsiors and mirandas, ships seriously starting to show their age even by then. the borg threat likely effected the development of most of these new ships to a degree, but they would have already been in progress by the mid 2360s, or already launched by then and just never seen. there is no canon launch date for nearly any of them.
'fight the borg' is just a set of tactics and technologies designed to resist their draining and holding attacks and to counter adaptation. the only ship that looks purpose built for that is the defiant, designed to have a high firepower to size and cost ratio. expendable. most of those FC ships are large cruisers, that shouts not designed just to fight the borg, but to fill the rolls a ship their size needs to fill and incorporate those 'fight the borg' technologies and tactics. even older ships can be upgraded with 'fight the borg' tech. its just tech, not some sweeping ship building change.
intrepid- basically a smaller, cheaper galaxy class, launched with several advanced new technologies, well armed for its size. i dont see how you could say this was just a crummy explorer, not a combat cruiser. i dont really see how you could say that about the galaxy ether, with the size of that main array or the amount of torpedoes it can spew, but whatever.
akira- a heavy cruiser with a few large phaser arrays and a ton of small torpedo launchers. likely the ship starfleet always wished it had when dealing with the cardasians and tzenkethy. launch date unknown, could have been right around the time the galaxy was launched, looks more like the galaxy then the sovereign.
saber- small general purpose ship, likely a direct replacement for the miranda. looks sovereign esk
norway- new destroyer, for filling roles the excelsior and miranda filled. launch date unknown, could have been any time between the galaxy and sovereign launch
steamrunner- registry numbers would indicate that this is from the 2350. might have gotten an overhaul at about the time the saber and sovereign launched, and looks similar as a result
sovereign- stated to be a replacement for the excelsior, as in when the excelsior was top of the line back 50 or more years ago. large not quite battleship sized cruiser, general purpose, has advanced technologies, likely intended to mirror the service record of the excelsior class for starfleet for the next 70-100 years. of all these new classes, proboly was in development the longest. its sharper darker design language predating ever seeing the borg.
defiant- actually built to fight the borg, actually small enough so that its couple year design time is believable
prometheus- high speedlight cruiser, a frigate or corvette squadron interceptor. advanced, but does not have the raw fire power it would need to be a serious threat to any thing the size of a heavy cruiser or larger. angular and sharp looking, instead of a collection of ovals like galaxy, akira, and intrepid.
no, no, no, no. not even remotely close. "thats a lot of firepower for an excelsior class ship", is all obrian said. the tiny defiant is a match for an old cruiser 60 times its size with weapons uprated as high as they could be. good for both of them. a galaxy could proboly destroy 5 lakotas, they arent even close, they dont even have phaser arrays. separating the saucer separates the main array from the warp core, your left with 2 inferior combat sections compared to a complete galaxy class.
the main array has a fireing arc of anything it has line of sight with. theres no were for it to hide. the only blind spots are directly below or behind the secondary hull, or between the naccels. and there are 4 small arrays covering every one of those blind spots.
the galaxy was built to have 70% of its internal space modular, so it could be set up to be ether a peace time explorer, or a war time battleship. thats what it was built for. regardless, its always armed with the largest and most powerful phaser arrays, and the highest volume torpedo launchers of any starfleet ship in all of canon, and its the largest starfleet ship by more then a factor of 2. even kitted out for peace time its provocative that it even exists, its so powerful.
I said combat oriented, the borg was just one aspect of it for FC era ships. And okay Lakota wasn't stated on their to have Galaxy level phasers. but they were more powerful, could they be at Galaxy level. Maybe. And arrays over turrets is just better cooldown and firing arc. And phaser able to fit in their will work and note she did do a number on the Defiant. A ship solely designed for combat. And A gal an hit a Defiant, but if the Defiant is being very manuverable she could do damage.
No Intrepid isn't a cheaper Galaxy, Nebula is. Intrepid was an experiment to have a more manuverable cruiser. THey galaxy can be made more combat orient i never said she couldn't she just had an inherit flaw she had no control over. She IS among the most powerful but she was design during an era of peace. Again the wars you mention there is no date on when they started or ended but they could have been short wars. I relate them to First Gulf War in duration.
Neither classes are battleships
I am using anti-fan fanon? I'm not the one claiming that either the Galaxy or the Sovereign are battleships. neither class are. A battleships main and only purpose is to be the most destructive and imposing type of ship, no science labs, no ball rooms, etc... No matter how much you love the Galaxy, both ships are just cruisers and cruisers are not battleships.
If the saucer seperation didnt improve the ships tactical ability, why was the Galaxies stardrive bridge is called the "battle-bridge"? Is that because its where the battle-of-the-bands is held? Remember the renegade Klingons in "Heart of Glory" season 1 of TNG speaking about how when the saucers section with Worf:
"KORRIS: We have heard this ship can separate in time of battle.
WORF: Yes. When relieved of its bulk, the Enterprise becomes an exceptional weapon. "
The ship is designed to fight without its saucer, not with it.
The Galaxy class has been stated as being a Battleship in 3 unrelated episodes.
Yesterday's Enterprise
All Good Things
Conundrum
Yesterday's Enterprise and All Good Things can be placed in the Alternate Reality realm.
In the episode Conundrum the ship was classified as a Battleship based on her specifications.
So yes, she is a battleship.
Canon backs it.
As a side note, the ship carried civilians due to its nature of being a long term exploration vessel.
Capable of ten year missions.
In the TNG Episode "When the bough breaks" Dr. Crusher is seen telling the parents that they knew the risks involved with bringing their families and children with them.
The ship was no luxury liner. She was meant to be capable of encountering the unknown and holding her own.
Whether that was thru Science, Diplomacy, Investigation or Combat. She was equipped to do it all.
Even being a mobile star base if needed in remote regions of Federation influence.
Also The Sovereign from what I've read was a long term research project going back decades. The idea was if Starfleet needed a Battle Cruiser fast The Sovereign would be the answer. Through that time a design team you look at the current incarnation of the Sovereign and redesign it with new tech that they have tested on other classes. in the late 2360's they said to bring her out with the last round of design.
I'llsay she and Sovie are the closest things the feds have to battleships. I think Fed mentaility is coming into play there. Starfleet has always been a hybrid Military and science organization. THeir main goals is to explore space and protect the federation. and there ships reveal that. Defiant was the first real warship they ever built. all there other ships had both war and peace time roles.
As for a the galaxy not seperating all the time. again Staarfleet general doesn't start conflicts so a spur of the moment fight they wouldn't split. for it would take minutes to move the civilians to saucer and seprerate. Nearly all the times we saw that manuvuer was before a planned battle. the only exceptions are Encounter at Farpoint and Generations.
It has been called several names.
Perhaps its being called the Battle Bridge is a reflection of the capabilities of the ship without the saucer. Without the saucer section the stardrive is essentially just a flying weapon.
It has an engine, shields, phasers, two oversized torpedo tubes and not much else.
It essentially becomes a large escort like vessel.
As for your comment about the ship being designed to fight without the saucer.
All evidence to the contrary.
It has been seen at its most effective while functioning as a whole.
It inflicted the bulk of its damage against the Borg Cube as a complete vessel and the separation later on was purely as a distraction based on a known stratagem by Picard.
She doesn't separate in Yesterday's Enterprise when having an additional target may have been an advantage. Nor in any DS9 Dominion War episodes where her full combat capabilities would have been in need.
So yes Worf is correct.
Without the Saucer section she becomes an overgunned and exceptionally maneuverable ship.
Or an "exceptional weapon"
The Sovereign has never been stated as being a ship of war. Nor a battleship. Yes I understand the restrictions here, movies vs 7 seasons. So its somewhat of a slanted debate to begin with. While I personally believe that the Sovereign at launch had a more powerful phaser array than the Galaxy at her launch, there isn't a reason to not give the Galaxy MkXII Arrays. Especially when you consider that she already had MKXI in Generations. Simply put, the Sovereign doesn't have the bulk to be a battleship. And would be hardpressed to even be considered a battle-cruiser if not for the extreme emphasis placed on the number of Torpedo tubes incorporated into her design.
Again I point to the Dominion War episodes of DS9. Those were pre-planned engagements where all available firepower and advantages would have been being asked for.
Also in TNG there were several times where conflict was not just anticipated but expected, and again the ship did not separate.
Note the DW galaxy were only battle capable, not fully functional so saucer sep may not be availible. also note the Saucer doesn't not have a warp drive so it would have to seperate at battle area. It was also likely it was cheaper to keep the gal togethor for the show than split her.
Note i NEVER said Defiant was a Battleship and said she was a WARSHIP, meaning she was designed solely for combat. And note also as a compact warship she is powerful for her size. Valiant had two problems going for it. One she was still damaged from the first battle. When Nog got on board she could only go Warp 3, A Defiant is capable of Warp 8 under normal circumstances.
Two, Red Squad was still a bunch of inexperience cadets.
Also The Dominion battleships is huge and all warship. Galaxy is a powerful ship but multiroled so a Dom battleship is more powerful than a gal.
Yesterday's Enterprise would be a battle ship/ troop transport since she was design in time of war and she reflected it for that was Starfleet mentaility. so toe to toe with a prime universe Gal the Y-E has edge but the Prime has better living conditions.
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But only THE Defiant is allowed to cloak, the rest can't by treaty
That is true. I'm pretty sure the second Defiant couldn't cloak, and for sure the Valiant doesn't.
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he Second Defiant could havbe cloaked since she was renamed Defiant and perhaps the treaty allowed it. but the Mp Defiants will not have it. Sto makes the exception considering the choas of the RSE at the time.
Possibly. If the second Defiant was actually seen cloaking, then that would be the second of only two Federation ships "allowed" to cloak. Which is good. I wouldn't want Picard's speech in TNG: "Pegasus" to go to waste.
As for STO, that's not canon, and I won't count that.
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The Saucer could have been left at starbase prior to the launching of the fleet. So that theory doesn't hold water and sinks.
Also, just building the stardrive section would have been the cheapest way of launching a Galaxy for combat. So if what some are saying is true of the Galaxy, that she is a floating luxury liner or that the stardrive section is where it is really at, then why bother attaching the saucer at all? So I disagree again that the stardrive was the superior combat vessel.
I do however agree that it was likely cheaper for the producers to use a complete Galaxy model instead.
The Saucer Separation is a part of the superstructure. She literally can't leave starbase without it
Regardless of damage or crew, a Defiant is no match for a Dominion Battleship.
Not even a Negh'Var could take on one of those beasts in a one on one fight.
I don't know about the comparison between the two ships between realities.
While I do believe that the Y-E would likely have the edge in combat, I am curious as to what changes they would have made. I'm thinking more redundancies, armor, additional torpedo tubes perhaps?
Perhaps it could have been left at starbase. But a DW Galaxy could be smilar to Y-E Galaxy by holding troops which the saucer is useful for. Also it is likely the Galaxys were given to veteran Captains who are not use to the tactic. in all Picard used it once, Geordi once, Riker Twice and Riker is known for unorthodox tactics.
And I agree Defiants are no match for Battleships but they have the firepower of the battlecruiser in it's tiny hull
No troops were needed in those engagements.
Pure space battle. Also a Veteran Captain should be more than capable of handling such a maneuver and tactic. That said. Removing the Saucer wouldn't present a challenge tactically.
It's still a ship that adheres to all the same laws as every other ship out there.
You'd be hard pressed to put that kind of firepower into a 120m frame +)
She does pack a wallop though. I suspect that she would really shine when used in greater numbers akin to the BoP strategies. Send in a wing of 3 or 4 and watch them pummel a target before breaking formation and reforming behind your own lines. Would be pretty devastating.
1) Existing Galaxy's might as well keep their saucer facilities attached. The large phaser arrays are also a benefit.
2) There are issues with crewing and the space available for crew in the Star drive. Sure they can work there, but is there space for 500 crew for months of service?
3) The shield grid may be weaker without the saucer attached. The saucer has a greater surface area, and surface area is used by starship shield grid systems to generate the shield bubble.
4) Problems with long-term warp. The ship is designed to be with a saucer attached for regular warp speed operations. Perhaps there are some fuel concerns with running the ship without the big wide saucer.
5) Troop transport. After all, AR 558 needs more troops. Got room in the Star drive?
6) Turn rate. We see Galaxy's with the saucer engines running all the time in DS9, as opposed to TNG. Perhaps it has something to do with sunlight thrust or required turn speed (although reduced mass from No-Saucer would make this redundant?)
7) Shuttle bay services. Just in case missions require the use of the very large hangar deck on the Saucer.
8) Command / Computing services. TNG Tech Manual says there are two computer cores in the saucer, compared to one on the Star drive. If the Galaxy class is in a command role, they might need the extra processing power separate from tactical and defensive systems.
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By Dominion War The Sovie and the gal are the biggest ships in the fleet, and the most powerful. Thus the closest thing they have to battleships.
those are all valid points and very plausible
Well that fact of the matter is, they actually shouldn't have to make the Galaxy into the Ambassador. Overall, Cruisers should generally be more powerful then what they are. The best way to do this is simply to reduce the damage that players put out or introduce a new "Expertise" stat that would allow you to get added resistances to player damage etc.
The problem isn't really the galaxy, the problem is actually the whole game. Escorts can do far too much, they can tank and put out insane DPS and this problem, if not fixed will eventually bury the game. Beams need an increase in damage output and cannons need to have significantly more power drain to limit the number that people can put on their ship.
I think the Galaxy is an ideal prototype for side mounted weaponry as well, Saucer Seperation also needs improving to put it up there with the Chevron Seperation of the Odyssey.
All these people saying "The Galaxy is not a warship"... maybe not during TNG but REMEMBER during TNG, it was a new class and there were only 6 of them. They BECAME warships during the Dominion War and STO should be better at reflecting this.
1) In TNG they seperated because they had family on board and combat was not planned. In DS9 the battles were planned thus knowing your going into combat means leaving everyone else at a starbase.
2) In TNG the Ent-D was alone and needed the mobility. In DS9 the galaxys were part of fleets holding formations thus mobility wasnt nessary.
Where it all went wrong is the introduction of the Excelsior, the Regent, the Odyssey and the Ambassador on the Fed side. All these ships have far better boff setups, are more flexible in there roles as tanks, healers and combat vessels. The Galaxy in comparison to these ships is the worst ship out of the 4 of them. It is not a plus 1 Z-Store ship when compared to other Z-Store ships.
Examples.
Lt. Cmd : Sabre vs Gladius and Nova vs Rhode Island def improvement over the free ships
Command : Akira vs Thunderchild Nebula vs Nebula Excelsior vs Excelsior again improvements between free and chargeable ships
Captain : Galaxy vs Venture Intrepid vs Intrepid
So then we get to VA and look at the Galaxy-r compare her to the other VA cruisers in the Z-Store and quick frankly we have been sold a Rear Admiral Lower Half ship disguised as a VA ship.
So she needs to be brought up to VA standards and my boff suggestion is for the Gal-r
Lt tactical
Lt Universal
Cmd Engineering
Lt Engineering
Lt Science
Consoles
4 Engineering
2 Science
3 Tactical
And this for the fleet Galaxy
Lt tactical
Lt Universal
Cmd Engineering
Lt Engineering
Lt Science
Consoles
4 Engineering
3 Science
3 Tactical
She doesn't step on the Odyssey, Regent or Excelsiors toes with the ability to have a Lt. Cmd tactical station or the Ambassadors by having a Lt. Cmd Science station. But she does have the ability to be dam more flexible with the universal Lt. seat Sci build or tactical build.
One of the best solutions I've heard on here. True fans of the Galaxy do not want it to be like the Defiant, we just want a more flexible build to be able to fly it competitively.