so now you are going to make up some story about moving fubar numbers around rather than fixing them?
where do you even get that idea from?
you just invented a ridiculous scenario of your own for the purpose of being an easy target, that is blatant straw-manning.
First, I'm not exactly sure what "straw" really has to do with this topic. Yet again, you are derailing from the purpose and topic of this thread.
Second, I said it was a hypothetical scenario to prove a point, not a practical application; as I have said here:
I just wanted to put that hypothetical scenario out there, as any change that the Devs make affects a great deal of players.
Third, an "easy target"? Then you are COMPLETELY missing the ENTIRE point of the scenario and associated lesson. Fortunately I'm a nice guy, so I'll rewrite it.
Group A wants change. Change happens; but in doing so, Group B is affected. As a result, one group is satisfied, but another has been severely affected and frustrated.
Any change will affect other players.
This is, basically, the warning I was trying to impress upon the readers of this thread.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
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no mater how badly this fact chaps polaronbeams TRIBBLE, this is simply a fact. there is not some fringe movement that wants a none suck galaxy class.
all the information about if from canon and tech manuals is just gravy. the way he attacks that stuff, you would think that the galaxy is the only ship that has to pass some canon power litmus test before it can be good in game too.
Well, it's also a FACT that after THREE YEARS of you guys whining, absolutely nothing has been done to your "space hotel". And as far as your so called "fringe movement", from what I can see, it's the same cast of whiners that have been crying in their milk for that same period of time with absolutely NO RESULTS, which quite frankly, is pretty pathetic.:D
The only problem is that there are 174 pages, but it's mostly the same people posting. Therefore size doesn't necessarily matter here.
Amen! These Galaxy Fanboys clearly have some serious delusions of grandeur to think that the SAME 20 or so whiners constitute a "fringe movement".
Then again, maybe it IS a "fringe movement" much like the "Flat Earthers" who believe that the Earth is really flat. The "logical reasoning" by these Galaxy Fanbors is about the same.:rolleyes:
My pleasure, since it illustrates the absolute failure that your "cause" has been for the last three years. The fact that even a ship from a pleasure planet such as Risa, has better tactical stats than your "space hotel" shows what Cryptic (with CBS's permission") thinks of your "arguments".
So when this thread is at 400 pages and it STILL has NOT changed the stats for your beloved "space hotel", your failure can at least illustrate to others that simply whining without any other action(s) will get them NOWHWHERE.
Just out of curiosity, what do you think my personal cause is in this thread? Not the OPs, not the other players, but mine, since your reply was to me.
Also, trying to degrade the ship by calling it a space hotel is the ultimate fail, because I happen to like that space hotel just because of that - it has civilians, families, kindergarten, school and all the works. It's the ultimate representation of a noble vision about enlightened ideals. So, if by calling it a space hotel you expected to get an angry reaction or to be taken as an insult - I'm afraid your shot missed, because quite frankly, it does completely the opposite to me.
And I wouldn't worry too much about my space hotel in STO, you can rest assured that with it's current stats in game, it could slap Risan Corvettes around all day long with me yawning and scratching my head with my right hand.
Amen! These Galaxy Fanboys clearly have some serious delusions of grandeur to think that the SAME 20 or so whiners constitute a "fringe movement".
Then again, maybe it IS a "fringe movement" much like the "Flat Earthers" who believe that the Earth is really flat. The "logical reasoning" by these Galaxy Fanbors is about the same.:rolleyes:
once they get second generation saucer sep working on the galaxy, the venture costumes lower neck causing problems applying that to it, there will be a fleet galaxy X, and according to geko other changes. the reason nothing has changed yet is because that tech isn't ready. they want to introduce any changes with that new tech.
its going to be so funny when we do get what we want when that tech is finished. so funny. i'll have to rename my galaxy the USS lol @ polaronbeam1
Thanks for the quote. You learn something new every day
The whole goal of that exercise was to give an example of why we can't just say "CHANGE EVERRY-THANG!!". Changing components of a dynamic game affects a lot of different, seemingly unrelated features of the game, as well as other players.
By showing the example, and explaining it in more basic terms, I don't believe I have failed at all; since you said that you "got it", that clearly explains to me that you understand the concept; which was my goal in the first place.
I'm not here to prove a point. I aspire to be the dose of reality to the people in this thread who insist on changing the Galaxy-class to suit them, without regard to the repercussions or execution of said change.
by this logic noting should ever be rebalanced ever, since it can be asserted under your reasoning;
'advantage X' cant be taken away from those using 'advantage X', because group x are satisfied using 'advantage X'.
you are literally arguing directly against balanced game-play, by using an example that doesnt actually seek to fix the problem, simply move it around.
That is true, however, if the greater population X benefits from the change at the cost of smaller population Y, then Cryptic may decide to take that action. You've seen it before in all sorts of nerfs and adjustments. People in the PvP forum are abuzz with disappointment in changes which ignore the smaller PvP community.
Applied to the Galaxy-class starship in this game, there are a small number of owners, and an even smaller number of owners who are concerned enough for a change. However, this dedicated group is miniscule compared to the thousands / millions of other players who would be affected by a change to this ship and its role as part of a line of Federation Starfleet cruisers.
And again, I'm not arguing anything, although it may seem as such. I'm just holding out the whole deal for you to look at. It's your choice whether you choose to act upon it, or refute and continue to protest against it.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
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Even no there is no actual onscreen evidence to support that assessment. Of course, Voyager had plot armour and numerous Borg enhancements, however, it was repeatedly shown to be outmatched when faced with larger vessels then itself or a multitude of vessels. E.G. Kazon Carriers and Quarren ships from "Workforce".
?
snip
When I said they are both more advanced they are.the Intrepeid comes with bioneural apcks instead of isoleiner chips ,multiphasic shielding.The Promth. is an advanced by it muti vector hull separation.The Glaxy maybe nig but these ships can run rings around it.
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When I said they are both more advanced they are.the Intrepeid comes with bioneural apcks instead of isoleiner chips ,multiphasic shielding.The Promth. is an advanced by it muti vector hull separation.The Glaxy maybe nig but these ships can run rings around it.
Advanced does not mean what you think it means.
A brand new handgun isn't going to take out a tank for example. Even though it is far more advanced.
The Intrepid and Prometheus are both newer ships with more advanced tech implemented throughout various aspects of the ships constructions. Both are faster and more agile. The Prometheus even is slanted more towards combat than the other two ships.
So yes those two can fly literal circles around the larger Galaxy, Nebula, Sovereign ship classes. But those three will swat those two out of the sky with their own superior firepower using tech that both classes use. Phasers, Torpedoes, Shields, SIF, general superstructure construction.
Unfortunately for everyone saying that those ships, because they are newer, are the most powerful. Ignore linear tech developments. No power doesn't increase ten fold every year or two. The techs involved are all mature technology, much like the internal combustion engine. These techs take time to make serious advances and the tech usually leaps forward due to a breakthru in an unrelated field of research.
All that it boils down to is asking for the ship to be a better more accurate representation of what was seen on screen instead of a flying brick of repetitive and locked-out engineering powers. There are so many ways of changing the ship without altering its role as the so called premier tank and allowing it greater flexabiltiy.
I have yet to see a single person post anything remotely relevant to opposing the changes.
Why can it not be turned into a more flexible ship?
No it doesn't alter anothers playstyle as has been suggested.
It will take nothing away from anyone but add selection and flavor for everyone.
All I am saying is Get Used To It. The Galaxy is here to stay, as it has for the past 3 years. 3 years! The past 1100 days!
About the IP: It's already gone, as you can see by the broken game mechanics which are supposed to be reflective of space/ground combat in Star Trek, and in fact you stated yourself are quickly becoming a mess.
But enough derailing, as that seems to be your motive in this thread; correct me with the truth of your purpose here, if I am wrong. The core of every post, every idea, in this thread should be about the Galaxy-class. Not about Cheyennes, not about Star Cruisers, not about power creep, not about broken game, not about Fanboys, not about X>Y, etc etc etc...
This is addressing everyone in this thread now. You want to talk Galaxy? Sure! I am jumping with joy to talk about this ship with you and anyone else! How it currently is (Reality), and what we all wish it was (Hypothetical scenarios). You want to talk about something else? I can make you a separate forum thread and help you set that up, if you want.
Enough derailing, irrelevant egotistical poking and garbage unrelated to this thread. It's annoying, a waste of everyone's time and energy, and frankly, reflective of no inner capability to craft a cohesive and on-topic idea.
I have yet to see a single person post anything remotely relevant to opposing the changes.
Why can it not be turned into a more flexible ship?
Because there are so few people who have had positive experience working with this ship, and wish to confront the aggravated population of this thread.
"Anything remotely relevant". Page 174 shows a brief hypothetical scenario of when a ship is changed, or rather in that case 'swapped', in this game. It's a cause and effect relationship. Because the Galaxy was swapped, Ambassador captains were enraged; which doesn't solve the problem, only closes one door and opens another.
A "true" solution would be to make a change that has only positive effects on the people who fly Galaxy-class starships, and absolutely no negative effects or backlash from anyone else. Of course, this will never happen.
It's safer for Cryptic to maintain the small, dissatisfied playerbase that is most of the people in this thread, than tick off a whole group of people who were affected by a change in the game which allows the Galaxy to adhere more to canon. Put yourself in Cryptic's shoes (no, don't quit ). Which is more manageable? A small mob, or a large mob?
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When I said they are both more advanced they are.the Intrepeid comes with bioneural apcks instead of isoleiner chips ,multiphasic shielding.The Promth. is an advanced by it muti vector hull separation.The Glaxy maybe nig but these ships can run rings around it.
I'll grtant that Prommie can take on a Galaxy, MVAM is the edge there. However Intrepid would lose. She was the last explorer leaning class before the FC change.
Galaxy is sold in the game store as a T5 ship. I bought it. It does not perform NEAR any other cruiser with the T5 designation.
TV, movie, and tech manual hullabaloo is irrelevant. We are talking about Star Trek Online. This game is not a Trek simulator. My T5 ship is not really a T5 ship. Needs reworked. Plenty of good (and to be fair, just as many bad) ideas stated in this thread to fix it. Cryptic, please fix.
I'll grtant that Prommie can take on a Galaxy, MVAM is the edge there. However Intrepid would lose. She was the last explorer leaning class before the FC change.
Multi-Vector offers the ship the ability to split into three components. However, this doesn't mean they are all pieces of a godly ship. It just means they are more maneuverable (less mass), have reduced power requirements for shipboard systems, and be able to "grow" a force that can attack from multiple directions.
The Galaxy-class has greater power requirements, but no doubt has a warp core that is designed to produce greater amounts of energy to allow those systems across the 600-something meter ship to function. It's difficult to tell without sources for the Prometheus' power output per section and when docked, but it can be assumed that power is plentiful on the Galaxy, but must be more carefully optimized on the Prometheus.
Since power has greater availability on the Galaxy-class, the weapons and defensive systems get the full power they need. The Galaxy-class has endured some terrific damage in full operational mode before; Best of Both Worlds, Tin Man, etc etc etc when the ship is working as designed.
I'll use the attack in TNG: "Yesterday's Enterprise" for this, since it's still fresh in my mind. Three K'Vort class KDF ships were attacking the militarized Enterprise-D. The Enterprise was required to defend its predecessor, so as someone has noted before, they couldn't go zipping around and evading the shots, lining up the torpedo tubes, etc. Regardless, a couple phaser shots at the K'Vorts destroyed one completely.
Despite their short victory, the ship was overwhelmed and facing destruction. No doubt by the time of the Prometheus, both ships' weapons and defensive systems are more advanced. Regardless, attacking from multiple angles is both the characteristic and selling point of the Prometheus over the Galaxy. Even if both are at equal technology levels, having 3 opponents with the same level of technology has an advantage over the single ship. The 3 opponents have the advantage and ability to force the hand of the single ship, simply because of greater numbers.
I'm not familiar enough with the Intrepid-class, since Voyager is not a typical Intrepid-class starship, and the only one seen in any of the shows besides Voyager is the Bellerophon, which was never seen in combat. I suppose Season 1 Voyager's combat scenes could be used as evidence, since that is as close as one can get to a baseline Intrepid-class starship, before Seven joined the show and the ship was enhanced.
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Because there are so few people who have had positive experience working with this ship, and wish to confront the aggravated population of this thread.
"Anything remotely relevant". Page 174 shows a brief hypothetical scenario of when a ship is changed, or rather in that case 'swapped', in this game. It's a cause and effect relationship. Because the Galaxy was swapped, Ambassador captains were enraged; which doesn't solve the problem, only closes one door and opens another.
A "true" solution would be to make a change that has only positive effects on the people who fly Galaxy-class starships, and absolutely no negative effects or backlash from anyone else. Of course, this will never happen.
It's safer for Cryptic to maintain the small, dissatisfied playerbase that is most of the people in this thread, than tick off a whole group of people who were affected by a change in the game which allows the Galaxy to adhere more to canon. Put yourself in Cryptic's shoes (no, don't quit ). Which is more manageable? A small mob, or a large mob?
That isn't relevant.
No-one would ask to have the Galaxy swapped with anything.
They are asking for the Galaxy to be upped to an appropriate level for its worth.
Being a T5.5 ship available through the C-Store it should be comparable to its counterparts. The ship is not. By asking for a turn buff of 1 or 2, a more flexible BOff layout, with a slight change to the Console layout is not going to affect the other cruiser or escort captains in a way that you seem to be suggesting. That is that they would be enraged at the changes that would have happened to their own ships.
We are not asking that anything be taken away from them.
By making the Galaxy more viable we are not taking away from the viability of those other ships. What would be more likely to happen is that there would be a greater assortment of Cruisers seen end-game. Ambassadors, Excelsiors, Assault Cruisers(Sovereigns), Galaxy's etc would all be seen end game as viable options.
Currently you are more likely to be discouraged from bringing one to an STF/ESTF then encouraged or even tolerated.
That is a problem. When a T5.5 ship is turned away from STF/ESTF's because players view the ship as having serious issues and being a liability, then yes, changes should be made.
Furthermore, when a gaming site like sto.gamepedia has this to say about the Fleet version of the Galaxy;
Performance
The Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit can be a very durable cruiser, and difficult to destroy if properly equipped. Its great Engineering bridge officer capabilities, along with five engineering consoles, offers huge defensive potential for the vessel. If properly set up, the Fleet Galaxy can be an effective tanker with the added capacity for small team healing simultaneously.
Alternatively, successful offensive builds have been seen to work, however it is not recommended for inexperienced players.
This vessel is not recommended for players looking to take a cruiser into Special Task Forces or 5v5 Arena.
Multi-Vector offers the ship the ability to split into three components. However, this doesn't mean they are all pieces of a godly ship. It just means they are more maneuverable (less mass), have reduced power requirements for shipboard systems, and be able to "grow" a force that can attack from multiple directions.
The Galaxy-class has greater power requirements, but no doubt has a warp core that is designed to produce greater amounts of energy to allow those systems across the 600-something meter ship to function. It's difficult to tell without sources for the Prometheus' power output per section and when docked, but it can be assumed that power is plentiful on the Galaxy, but must be more carefully optimized on the Prometheus.
Since power has greater availability on the Galaxy-class, the weapons and defensive systems get the full power they need. The Galaxy-class has endured some terrific damage in full operational mode before; Best of Both Worlds, Tin Man, etc etc etc when the ship is working as designed.
I'll use the attack in TNG: "Yesterday's Enterprise" for this, since it's still fresh in my mind. Three K'Vort class KDF ships were attacking the militarized Enterprise-D. The Enterprise was required to defend its predecessor, so as someone has noted before, they couldn't go zipping around and evading the shots, lining up the torpedo tubes, etc. Regardless, a couple phaser shots at the K'Vorts destroyed one completely.
Despite their short victory, the ship was overwhelmed and facing destruction. No doubt by the time of the Prometheus, both ships' weapons and defensive systems are more advanced. Regardless, attacking from multiple angles is both the characteristic and selling point of the Prometheus over the Galaxy. Even if both are at equal technology levels, having 3 opponents with the same level of technology has an advantage over the single ship. The 3 opponents have the advantage and ability to force the hand of the single ship, simply because of greater numbers.
I'm not familiar enough with the Intrepid-class, since Voyager is not a typical Intrepid-class starship, and the only one seen in any of the shows besides Voyager is the Bellerophon, which was never seen in combat. I suppose Season 1 Voyager's combat scenes could be used as evidence, since that is as close as one can get to a baseline Intrepid-class starship, before Seven joined the show and the ship was enhanced.
we saw what the prommie did to a nebula, and you can assume that a Gal is slightly stronger. But still again a more tacically orient ship vs the king of the Explorers even if a DW variant Mvam gives it the edge because of the multipe approach. Interpid is an okay cruiser and is not ment to go toe to toe with a Galaxy like ships. well armed for her class. Going by pre Seven stats.
we saw what the prommie did to a nebula, and you can assume that a Gal is slightly stronger. But still again a more tacically orient ship vs the king of the Explorers even if a DW variant Mvam gives it the edge because of the multipe approach. Interpid is an okay cruiser and is not ment to go toe to toe with a Galaxy like ships. well armed for her class. Going by pre Seven stats.
We saw what a Prometheus could do to a Nebula that had just flown itself apart trying to keep up with the Prometheus. Remember the Prometheus is the fastest ship in the fleet, and that Nebula was catching up to it...
Voyager was originally intended to be a Galaxy class vessel. But the producers didn't feel that viewers would be able to suspend belief and actually think that it was in trouble having seen how powerful the ship could be in TNG. So they went with a smaller less powerful ship in order to better set the stage for Voyager.
That isn't relevant.
No-one would ask to have the Galaxy swapped with anything.
Again, it was a hypothetical scenario. I can't speak for Cryptic in what they plan to do with the ship, if they decide to go back and edit it.
They are asking for the Galaxy to be upped to an appropriate level for its worth.
Being a T5.5 ship available through the C-Store it should be comparable to its counterparts. The ship is not. By asking for a turn buff of 1 or 2, a more flexible BOff layout
Right there. A more flexible BOFF Layout. So which ship will take its place, once the Galaxy gets an upped boff layout? Since it's evident that Cryptic insists on a ship from each line (cruiser, escort, sci ship) have Cmdr+LtCmdr+Ens X, Lt Y, Lt Z formula for boff layouts.
with a slight change to the Console layout is not going to affect the other cruiser or escort captains in a way that you seem to be suggesting. That is that they would be enraged at the changes that would have happened to their own ships.
Again, it was hypothetical. I can't speak for Cryptic. If I would, let's just say that this thread wouldn't exist.
We are not asking that anything be taken away from them.
By making the Galaxy more viable we are not taking away from the viability of those other ships. What would be more likely to happen is that there would be a greater assortment of Cruisers seen end-game. Ambassadors, Excelsiors, Assault Cruisers(Sovereigns), Galaxy's etc would all be seen end game as viable options.
Ideally, yes. Let's hope and pray that in the event this ship gets a revisit by Cryptic's Devs, they will not swap stats with other ships, and instead tweak the stats so the ship is more viable.
Currently you are more likely to be discouraged from bringing one to an STF/ESTF then encouraged or even tolerated.
That is a problem. When a T5.5 ship is turned away from STF/ESTF's because players view the ship as having serious issues and being a liability, then yes, changes should be made.
Furthermore, when a gaming site like sto.gamepedia has this to say about the Fleet version of the Galaxy;
Performance
The Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit can be a very durable cruiser, and difficult to destroy if properly equipped. Its great Engineering bridge officer capabilities, along with five engineering consoles, offers huge defensive potential for the vessel. If properly set up, the Fleet Galaxy can be an effective tanker with the added capacity for small team healing simultaneously.
Alternatively, successful offensive builds have been seen to work, however it is not recommended for inexperienced players.
This vessel is not recommended for players looking to take a cruiser into Special Task Forces or 5v5 Arena.
...
Oooh, bad source! I wrote that - check the page history.
But I'm honoured nonetheless that the truth of my words has had an impact on at least one person. If only I could say the same about some of the other people in this thread about the likelihood of a change to this ship.
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We saw what a Prometheus could do to a Nebula that had just flown itself apart trying to keep up with the Prometheus. Remember the Prometheus is the fastest ship in the fleet, and that Nebula was catching up to it...
Voyager was originally intended to be a Galaxy class vessel. But the producers didn't feel that viewers would be able to suspend belief and actually think that it was in trouble having seen how powerful the ship could be in TNG. So they went with a smaller less powerful ship in order to better set the stage for Voyager.
It's a pity they ruined that show ><
Yeah, a Galaxy would have an easy time. Just try to imagine the kazon Olga trying to take a Galaxy Voyager.
also Prommie fused, Galaxy has advantage, split Promie does.
we saw what the prommie did to a nebula, and you can assume that a Gal is slightly stronger. But still again a more tacically orient ship vs the king of the Explorers even if a DW variant Mvam gives it the edge because of the multipe approach. Interpid is an okay cruiser and is not ment to go toe to toe with a Galaxy like ships. well armed for her class. Going by pre Seven stats.
the Prometheus was an ultra high tech light cruiser, but nothing about it struck me as especially dangerous for its size. it had shorter main arrays then the intrepid even, and no cannons. it lacks heavy firepower, or large burst torpedo tubes, not every section necessarily even had torp tubes. the nebula that was giving chase was knocked out of warp and unable to continue pursuit. getting damaged at the speed it was going, which must have been beyond its emergency sprint speed, prevented them from continuing giving chase. had they both dropped out of warp to duke it out, the Prometheus and its parts would have gotten squashed likes bugs, it was facing a gigantic ship by comparison with the most powerful phaser arrays in all of canon.
the Prometheus is clearly an interceptor to the extreme, designed to engage small frigate squadrons like bird of prey or bug ships, alone, using its separation ability to even the odds. or to chase down a ship slightly out of its weight class and attempt to overwhelm it. it killed a d'deridex, after an akira and 2 defiant class focused fired on it off screen. at first the ship might seem uber, but like so many trek battles, they are written to aggrandize the small hero ship or favor the enemy underdog. i left out have the tacticly superior large battleship overwhelmingly squash the smaller ship, that never gets to happen. well, except once, when the valiant picked a fight with that huge jem hadar ship.
people are pretty hyped about the prom, but thats mainly because it was the newest ship. and they think new=most powerful, without exception. being big or small actually maters the most, and being most advanced, for a short time, means the least. becase the new tech just became part of the starfleet parts bins, and they upgrade ships constantly with new tech.
We saw what a Prometheus could do to a Nebula that had just flown itself apart trying to keep up with the Prometheus. Remember the Prometheus is the fastest ship in the fleet, and that Nebula was catching up to it...
Voyager was originally intended to be a Galaxy class vessel. But the producers didn't feel that viewers would be able to suspend belief and actually think that it was in trouble having seen how powerful the ship could be in TNG. So they went with a smaller less powerful ship in order to better set the stage for Voyager.
It's a pity they ruined that show ><
im sure they loved writing for voyager. they finally had the ship they were awkwardly writing for throughout tng. the small, vulnerable, underdog.
the Prometheus was an ultra high tech light cruiser, but nothing about it struck me as especially dangerous for its size. it had shorter main arrays then the intrepid even, and no cannons. it lacks heavy firepower, or large burst torpedo tubes, not every section necessarily even had torp tubes. the nebula that was giving chase was knocked out of warp and unable to continue pursuit. getting damaged at the speed it was going, which must have been beyond its emergency sprint speed, prevented them from continuing giving chase. had they both dropped out of warp to duke it out, the Prometheus and its parts would have gotten squashed likes bugs, it was facing a gigantic ship by comparison with the most powerful phaser arrays in all of canon.
the Prometheus is clearly an interceptor to the extreme, designed to engage small frigate squadrons like bird of prey or bug ships, alone, using its separation ability to even the odds. or to chase down a ship slightly out of its weight class and attempt to overwhelm it. it killed a d'deridex, after an akira and 2 defiant class focused fired on it off screen. at first the ship might seem uber, but like so many trek battles, they are written to aggrandize the small hero ship or favor the enemy underdog. i left out have the tacticly superior large battleship overwhelmingly squash the smaller ship, that never gets to happen. well, except once, when the valiant picked a fight with that huge jem hadar ship.
people are pretty hyped about the prom, but thats mainly because it was the newest ship. and they think new=most powerful, without exception. being big or small actually maters the most, and being most advanced, for a short time, means the least. becase the new tech just became part of the starfleet parts bins, and they upgrade ships constantly with new tech.
im sure they loved writing for voyager. they finally had the ship they were awkwardly writing for throughout tng. the small, vulnerable, underdog.
Disagree. she maybe a light cruiser but she packs a punch and her main card is MVAM. We saw it disable a nebula and destroy a D'Deridex. and she was designed during a time of war. and size of array isn't everything.. Again I said fused prommie would be at disadvatage to a Galaxy, split it has edge.
that dd kill was addressed in the post you just quoted.
getting the last salvo in on a ship that just got bombarded by an akira & defiant isnt that much of an achievment.
I'll grtant that Prommie can take on a Galaxy, MVAM is the edge there. However Intrepid would lose. She was the last explorer leaning class before the FC change.
I doubt it would lose and what this the FC?
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Fc is First Contact. we see a major ship design change from TNG to First Contact.
the new classes first seen in first contact were 2 decades in the making. created because there was a serious lack of modern designs at every ship size. they weren't created overnight, and because of the borg. the intrepid isn't from some previous era, it was one of the many new classes launches in the 2360.
What does FC have to with this though and how was the ship redesigned?
Starfleet mentaility. Look at interpid, the last ship class we see before First Contact. She had the typical light gray hull we have seen since TMP era. However FC comes out we see a darker gray for all the new ships. It is reasonable to say that something changed in Starfleet mentaility between VOY and FC. And considering what was happening at the time. Relations strained with the Klingons, the growing threat of the dominion. Starfleets era of Peaceful exploration right now is at an end. So new ships designs lean to combat. Note these ships still can preform peaceful missions so they have a post war future but ships like the Prommie, Akira, Sovereign are design for combat first, peace second. Starfleet also tries to refit existing designs in preparation for war. I believe the Lakota Refit is an attempt to make the Excel a more viable cruiser and it succeeds but i beleive the war starts before most excels can get the refit. Aslo all Galaxys built during the conflict are bare bones battle capable Galaxys with little science ability. They would likely have bio nerual gelpacks and sokme other tech changes but sadly not the Venture Phaser strips which i believe was directly related to Odyessy's destruction. again time was against them since till that point the Galaxy had a limited production. So nomatter how powerful a Glaxy is if it's facing a split Prommie on it's own the prommie has the tacical edge. I'm discounting the captain factor here just the ships abilites. Now if a prommie stayed fused I can see a Gal have an edge.
What about the ability of the ships survival as it is bio neuarl pack and the fact it can land to conduct repairs.The sovvy was desinged for taking on the borg.
It wasn't a grat idea to have famlies on board a warship.What does the Lakota and Defiant have to do with this even they can take on the Galaxy.
You just love the Galaxy don't you.
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Comments
First, I'm not exactly sure what "straw" really has to do with this topic. Yet again, you are derailing from the purpose and topic of this thread.
Second, I said it was a hypothetical scenario to prove a point, not a practical application; as I have said here:
and here:
Third, an "easy target"? Then you are COMPLETELY missing the ENTIRE point of the scenario and associated lesson. Fortunately I'm a nice guy, so I'll rewrite it.
Group A wants change. Change happens; but in doing so, Group B is affected. As a result, one group is satisfied, but another has been severely affected and frustrated.
Any change will affect other players.
This is, basically, the warning I was trying to impress upon the readers of this thread.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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Well, it's also a FACT that after THREE YEARS of you guys whining, absolutely nothing has been done to your "space hotel". And as far as your so called "fringe movement", from what I can see, it's the same cast of whiners that have been crying in their milk for that same period of time with absolutely NO RESULTS, which quite frankly, is pretty pathetic.:D
Amen! These Galaxy Fanboys clearly have some serious delusions of grandeur to think that the SAME 20 or so whiners constitute a "fringe movement".
Then again, maybe it IS a "fringe movement" much like the "Flat Earthers" who believe that the Earth is really flat. The "logical reasoning" by these Galaxy Fanbors is about the same.:rolleyes:
Just out of curiosity, what do you think my personal cause is in this thread? Not the OPs, not the other players, but mine, since your reply was to me.
Also, trying to degrade the ship by calling it a space hotel is the ultimate fail, because I happen to like that space hotel just because of that - it has civilians, families, kindergarten, school and all the works. It's the ultimate representation of a noble vision about enlightened ideals. So, if by calling it a space hotel you expected to get an angry reaction or to be taken as an insult - I'm afraid your shot missed, because quite frankly, it does completely the opposite to me.
And I wouldn't worry too much about my space hotel in STO, you can rest assured that with it's current stats in game, it could slap Risan Corvettes around all day long with me yawning and scratching my head with my right hand.
once they get second generation saucer sep working on the galaxy, the venture costumes lower neck causing problems applying that to it, there will be a fleet galaxy X, and according to geko other changes. the reason nothing has changed yet is because that tech isn't ready. they want to introduce any changes with that new tech.
its going to be so funny when we do get what we want when that tech is finished. so funny. i'll have to rename my galaxy the USS lol @ polaronbeam1
The whole goal of that exercise was to give an example of why we can't just say "CHANGE EVERRY-THANG!!". Changing components of a dynamic game affects a lot of different, seemingly unrelated features of the game, as well as other players.
By showing the example, and explaining it in more basic terms, I don't believe I have failed at all; since you said that you "got it", that clearly explains to me that you understand the concept; which was my goal in the first place.
I'm not here to prove a point. I aspire to be the dose of reality to the people in this thread who insist on changing the Galaxy-class to suit them, without regard to the repercussions or execution of said change.
That is true, however, if the greater population X benefits from the change at the cost of smaller population Y, then Cryptic may decide to take that action. You've seen it before in all sorts of nerfs and adjustments. People in the PvP forum are abuzz with disappointment in changes which ignore the smaller PvP community.
Applied to the Galaxy-class starship in this game, there are a small number of owners, and an even smaller number of owners who are concerned enough for a change. However, this dedicated group is miniscule compared to the thousands / millions of other players who would be affected by a change to this ship and its role as part of a line of Federation Starfleet cruisers.
And again, I'm not arguing anything, although it may seem as such. I'm just holding out the whole deal for you to look at. It's your choice whether you choose to act upon it, or refute and continue to protest against it.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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When I said they are both more advanced they are.the Intrepeid comes with bioneural apcks instead of isoleiner chips ,multiphasic shielding.The Promth. is an advanced by it muti vector hull separation.The Glaxy maybe nig but these ships can run rings around it.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Advanced does not mean what you think it means.
A brand new handgun isn't going to take out a tank for example. Even though it is far more advanced.
The Intrepid and Prometheus are both newer ships with more advanced tech implemented throughout various aspects of the ships constructions. Both are faster and more agile. The Prometheus even is slanted more towards combat than the other two ships.
So yes those two can fly literal circles around the larger Galaxy, Nebula, Sovereign ship classes. But those three will swat those two out of the sky with their own superior firepower using tech that both classes use. Phasers, Torpedoes, Shields, SIF, general superstructure construction.
Unfortunately for everyone saying that those ships, because they are newer, are the most powerful. Ignore linear tech developments. No power doesn't increase ten fold every year or two. The techs involved are all mature technology, much like the internal combustion engine. These techs take time to make serious advances and the tech usually leaps forward due to a breakthru in an unrelated field of research.
All that it boils down to is asking for the ship to be a better more accurate representation of what was seen on screen instead of a flying brick of repetitive and locked-out engineering powers. There are so many ways of changing the ship without altering its role as the so called premier tank and allowing it greater flexabiltiy.
I have yet to see a single person post anything remotely relevant to opposing the changes.
Why can it not be turned into a more flexible ship?
No it doesn't alter anothers playstyle as has been suggested.
It will take nothing away from anyone but add selection and flavor for everyone.
All I am saying is Get Used To It. The Galaxy is here to stay, as it has for the past 3 years. 3 years! The past 1100 days!
About the IP: It's already gone, as you can see by the broken game mechanics which are supposed to be reflective of space/ground combat in Star Trek, and in fact you stated yourself are quickly becoming a mess.
But enough derailing, as that seems to be your motive in this thread; correct me with the truth of your purpose here, if I am wrong. The core of every post, every idea, in this thread should be about the Galaxy-class. Not about Cheyennes, not about Star Cruisers, not about power creep, not about broken game, not about Fanboys, not about X>Y, etc etc etc...
This is addressing everyone in this thread now. You want to talk Galaxy? Sure! I am jumping with joy to talk about this ship with you and anyone else! How it currently is (Reality), and what we all wish it was (Hypothetical scenarios). You want to talk about something else? I can make you a separate forum thread and help you set that up, if you want.
Enough derailing, irrelevant egotistical poking and garbage unrelated to this thread. It's annoying, a waste of everyone's time and energy, and frankly, reflective of no inner capability to craft a cohesive and on-topic idea.
Because there are so few people who have had positive experience working with this ship, and wish to confront the aggravated population of this thread.
"Anything remotely relevant". Page 174 shows a brief hypothetical scenario of when a ship is changed, or rather in that case 'swapped', in this game. It's a cause and effect relationship. Because the Galaxy was swapped, Ambassador captains were enraged; which doesn't solve the problem, only closes one door and opens another.
A "true" solution would be to make a change that has only positive effects on the people who fly Galaxy-class starships, and absolutely no negative effects or backlash from anyone else. Of course, this will never happen.
It's safer for Cryptic to maintain the small, dissatisfied playerbase that is most of the people in this thread, than tick off a whole group of people who were affected by a change in the game which allows the Galaxy to adhere more to canon. Put yourself in Cryptic's shoes (no, don't quit
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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I'll grtant that Prommie can take on a Galaxy, MVAM is the edge there. However Intrepid would lose. She was the last explorer leaning class before the FC change.
Galaxy is sold in the game store as a T5 ship. I bought it. It does not perform NEAR any other cruiser with the T5 designation.
TV, movie, and tech manual hullabaloo is irrelevant. We are talking about Star Trek Online. This game is not a Trek simulator. My T5 ship is not really a T5 ship. Needs reworked. Plenty of good (and to be fair, just as many bad) ideas stated in this thread to fix it. Cryptic, please fix.
Multi-Vector offers the ship the ability to split into three components. However, this doesn't mean they are all pieces of a godly ship. It just means they are more maneuverable (less mass), have reduced power requirements for shipboard systems, and be able to "grow" a force that can attack from multiple directions.
The Galaxy-class has greater power requirements, but no doubt has a warp core that is designed to produce greater amounts of energy to allow those systems across the 600-something meter ship to function. It's difficult to tell without sources for the Prometheus' power output per section and when docked, but it can be assumed that power is plentiful on the Galaxy, but must be more carefully optimized on the Prometheus.
Since power has greater availability on the Galaxy-class, the weapons and defensive systems get the full power they need. The Galaxy-class has endured some terrific damage in full operational mode before; Best of Both Worlds, Tin Man, etc etc etc when the ship is working as designed.
I'll use the attack in TNG: "Yesterday's Enterprise" for this, since it's still fresh in my mind. Three K'Vort class KDF ships were attacking the militarized Enterprise-D. The Enterprise was required to defend its predecessor, so as someone has noted before, they couldn't go zipping around and evading the shots, lining up the torpedo tubes, etc. Regardless, a couple phaser shots at the K'Vorts destroyed one completely.
Despite their short victory, the ship was overwhelmed and facing destruction. No doubt by the time of the Prometheus, both ships' weapons and defensive systems are more advanced. Regardless, attacking from multiple angles is both the characteristic and selling point of the Prometheus over the Galaxy. Even if both are at equal technology levels, having 3 opponents with the same level of technology has an advantage over the single ship. The 3 opponents have the advantage and ability to force the hand of the single ship, simply because of greater numbers.
I'm not familiar enough with the Intrepid-class, since Voyager is not a typical Intrepid-class starship, and the only one seen in any of the shows besides Voyager is the Bellerophon, which was never seen in combat. I suppose Season 1 Voyager's combat scenes could be used as evidence, since that is as close as one can get to a baseline Intrepid-class starship, before Seven joined the show and the ship was enhanced.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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That isn't relevant.
No-one would ask to have the Galaxy swapped with anything.
They are asking for the Galaxy to be upped to an appropriate level for its worth.
Being a T5.5 ship available through the C-Store it should be comparable to its counterparts. The ship is not. By asking for a turn buff of 1 or 2, a more flexible BOff layout, with a slight change to the Console layout is not going to affect the other cruiser or escort captains in a way that you seem to be suggesting. That is that they would be enraged at the changes that would have happened to their own ships.
We are not asking that anything be taken away from them.
By making the Galaxy more viable we are not taking away from the viability of those other ships. What would be more likely to happen is that there would be a greater assortment of Cruisers seen end-game. Ambassadors, Excelsiors, Assault Cruisers(Sovereigns), Galaxy's etc would all be seen end game as viable options.
Currently you are more likely to be discouraged from bringing one to an STF/ESTF then encouraged or even tolerated.
That is a problem. When a T5.5 ship is turned away from STF/ESTF's because players view the ship as having serious issues and being a liability, then yes, changes should be made.
Furthermore, when a gaming site like sto.gamepedia has this to say about the Fleet version of the Galaxy;
Performance
The Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit can be a very durable cruiser, and difficult to destroy if properly equipped. Its great Engineering bridge officer capabilities, along with five engineering consoles, offers huge defensive potential for the vessel. If properly set up, the Fleet Galaxy can be an effective tanker with the added capacity for small team healing simultaneously.
Alternatively, successful offensive builds have been seen to work, however it is not recommended for inexperienced players.
This vessel is not recommended for players looking to take a cruiser into Special Task Forces or 5v5 Arena.
...
we saw what the prommie did to a nebula, and you can assume that a Gal is slightly stronger. But still again a more tacically orient ship vs the king of the Explorers even if a DW variant Mvam gives it the edge because of the multipe approach. Interpid is an okay cruiser and is not ment to go toe to toe with a Galaxy like ships. well armed for her class. Going by pre Seven stats.
We saw what a Prometheus could do to a Nebula that had just flown itself apart trying to keep up with the Prometheus. Remember the Prometheus is the fastest ship in the fleet, and that Nebula was catching up to it...
Voyager was originally intended to be a Galaxy class vessel. But the producers didn't feel that viewers would be able to suspend belief and actually think that it was in trouble having seen how powerful the ship could be in TNG. So they went with a smaller less powerful ship in order to better set the stage for Voyager.
It's a pity they ruined that show ><
Again, it was a hypothetical scenario. I can't speak for Cryptic in what they plan to do with the ship, if they decide to go back and edit it.
Right there. A more flexible BOFF Layout. So which ship will take its place, once the Galaxy gets an upped boff layout? Since it's evident that Cryptic insists on a ship from each line (cruiser, escort, sci ship) have Cmdr+LtCmdr+Ens X, Lt Y, Lt Z formula for boff layouts.
Again, it was hypothetical. I can't speak for Cryptic. If I would, let's just say that this thread wouldn't exist.
Ideally, yes. Let's hope and pray that in the event this ship gets a revisit by Cryptic's Devs, they will not swap stats with other ships, and instead tweak the stats so the ship is more viable.
Oooh, bad source! I wrote that - check the page history.
But I'm honoured nonetheless that the truth of my words has had an impact on at least one person. If only I could say the same about some of the other people in this thread about the likelihood of a change to this ship.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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Yeah, a Galaxy would have an easy time. Just try to imagine the kazon Olga trying to take a Galaxy Voyager.
also Prommie fused, Galaxy has advantage, split Promie does.
the Prometheus was an ultra high tech light cruiser, but nothing about it struck me as especially dangerous for its size. it had shorter main arrays then the intrepid even, and no cannons. it lacks heavy firepower, or large burst torpedo tubes, not every section necessarily even had torp tubes. the nebula that was giving chase was knocked out of warp and unable to continue pursuit. getting damaged at the speed it was going, which must have been beyond its emergency sprint speed, prevented them from continuing giving chase. had they both dropped out of warp to duke it out, the Prometheus and its parts would have gotten squashed likes bugs, it was facing a gigantic ship by comparison with the most powerful phaser arrays in all of canon.
the Prometheus is clearly an interceptor to the extreme, designed to engage small frigate squadrons like bird of prey or bug ships, alone, using its separation ability to even the odds. or to chase down a ship slightly out of its weight class and attempt to overwhelm it. it killed a d'deridex, after an akira and 2 defiant class focused fired on it off screen. at first the ship might seem uber, but like so many trek battles, they are written to aggrandize the small hero ship or favor the enemy underdog. i left out have the tacticly superior large battleship overwhelmingly squash the smaller ship, that never gets to happen. well, except once, when the valiant picked a fight with that huge jem hadar ship.
people are pretty hyped about the prom, but thats mainly because it was the newest ship. and they think new=most powerful, without exception. being big or small actually maters the most, and being most advanced, for a short time, means the least. becase the new tech just became part of the starfleet parts bins, and they upgrade ships constantly with new tech.
im sure they loved writing for voyager. they finally had the ship they were awkwardly writing for throughout tng. the small, vulnerable, underdog.
Disagree. she maybe a light cruiser but she packs a punch and her main card is MVAM. We saw it disable a nebula and destroy a D'Deridex. and she was designed during a time of war. and size of array isn't everything.. Again I said fused prommie would be at disadvatage to a Galaxy, split it has edge.
thery're was 3 D'Ds so not sure on that
I doubt it would lose and what this the FC?
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Fc is First Contact. we see a major ship design change from TNG to First Contact.
What does FC have to with this though and how was the ship redesigned?
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
the new classes first seen in first contact were 2 decades in the making. created because there was a serious lack of modern designs at every ship size. they weren't created overnight, and because of the borg. the intrepid isn't from some previous era, it was one of the many new classes launches in the 2360.
Starfleet mentaility. Look at interpid, the last ship class we see before First Contact. She had the typical light gray hull we have seen since TMP era. However FC comes out we see a darker gray for all the new ships. It is reasonable to say that something changed in Starfleet mentaility between VOY and FC. And considering what was happening at the time. Relations strained with the Klingons, the growing threat of the dominion. Starfleets era of Peaceful exploration right now is at an end. So new ships designs lean to combat. Note these ships still can preform peaceful missions so they have a post war future but ships like the Prommie, Akira, Sovereign are design for combat first, peace second. Starfleet also tries to refit existing designs in preparation for war. I believe the Lakota Refit is an attempt to make the Excel a more viable cruiser and it succeeds but i beleive the war starts before most excels can get the refit. Aslo all Galaxys built during the conflict are bare bones battle capable Galaxys with little science ability. They would likely have bio nerual gelpacks and sokme other tech changes but sadly not the Venture Phaser strips which i believe was directly related to Odyessy's destruction. again time was against them since till that point the Galaxy had a limited production. So nomatter how powerful a Glaxy is if it's facing a split Prommie on it's own the prommie has the tacical edge. I'm discounting the captain factor here just the ships abilites. Now if a prommie stayed fused I can see a Gal have an edge.
It wasn't a grat idea to have famlies on board a warship.What does the Lakota and Defiant have to do with this even they can take on the Galaxy.
You just love the Galaxy don't you.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers