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A new nerf thread by Pax - Tier 4 Omega Passive for Shields

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  • mancommancom Member Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    now that is BS, the borg set heals show up. i was looking forward to parcing and seeing an extra ~25% shield heals from this, if i get it. i mean i expect at least that.
    The Borg set 3-piece bonus shows up, yes. But that is an old thing, not one of the new procs.

    Do you mean that you see the T4 rep procs show up in the log?
    1042856
  • luxchristianluxchristian Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    praxi5 wrote: »
    Why.

    Just why.

    It's not as if any of these passives are needed in PvE at all. I can easily bust out 30K Beam Overloads on the regs without having to use any OP buffs, passives, or P2W in PvE. Did anyone really feel as if they were underpowered?

    If the forum, ESD chat and all the "NERF the Borgs" thread are an indicator: YES, there are a lot of players who feel underpowered.

    They are even some players who are complaining that the race against the NSC in the winterland is too hard! That it is impossible to win if you aren't some l33t hardcore FPS player :eek:
  • ddesjardinsddesjardins Member Posts: 3,056 Media Corps
    edited December 2012
    Wow, guess I underestimated it's value. Looks like I'm getting it now, and I might just try PvP again, before I'm spawn jumped 20+ times and decide for the third time PvP douchiness is not for me.

    Yeah PvP is broken. Yeah, the are saying that a new version is coming. I'll wait for the new version before I waste my time in PvP again.

    That passive looks awesome though...
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  • xantrisxantris Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I can see how it might be annoying for the folks who like to duel, but I think there is an overreaction to the actual power of this ability in group combat where targets are being focus fired and debuffed.
  • shookyangshookyang Member Posts: 1,122
    edited December 2012
    bitemepwe wrote: »
    YaY!!! Another thing one has to grind to remain competitive is vastly out of whack it seems.

    That's how I love my PvP.................not.
    If spending less than 5 mins a day to get 400 Romulan marks after 10 days (at it's worst) is grinding, I don't know how else to help you.
  • zarathos1978zarathos1978 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    In a team play with healers doing their job, a cross healed "target" with now native regen and it's own boost to shield resistance/regeneration will be pretty tough. Not untouchable (unless it's zombie cruiser, I think), but pretty hard to kill.

    I wonder - how new passive regen will look like on ship with highest possible regenerative [reg]x3 shield? On something like sci/ops Odyssey or Star Cruiser? With proper consoles, deflector, all eng native buffs, some BOFF healing/buffing abilities going on?

    Or on two such cruisers cross healing/extending each other.

    5v5 PuG in FvK with Feds flying 4 such cruisers and 1 escort? 3 cruisers and 2 escorts? What about 5 sci ships with half of them maxed for shield regen/healing?
    Focus fire from 3-5 people will still destroy a ship.

    From 3-5 escorts or tac cruisers. What about other team having cruisers only (eng/tac) and cross healing? What about PuGs where you cannot count on the best team composition and can end with 5 escorts vs 5 cruisers? Cruisers wont be able to kill escorts, but will escorts be able to kill cross healing cruisers?
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  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    It triggers a GOOD proc for YOU when you land a crit... how does this make crit a bad thing... seems to me you want to crit as often as you can so your targets can't target you. lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
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  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    My understanding was that it triggers when you suffer a critical hit.

    Edit:

    But that's correct, it is the other way round:

    http://www.stowiki.org/Reputation_System#Rewards

    "You have a 5% chance to Placate your target when you critically hit them in space combat. Damaging the target further may break this Placate effect."

    Indeed

    The placate triggers on crit... the in game info says it doesn't break on dmg... but regardless as Mancons vid proves it does the job... in a target rich field and with the proper high crit high fire rate setup it would be as good as a battle cloak. Combo it with a KHG shield and perhaps even the Entertainer doff... and you have a recipe for extreme annoyance. If we all run setups like that it will be horrible. The only thing you will be able to keep target on will be pets. lol

    The Romulan shield heal is what triggers on a crit... so you can have someone that is getting healed by crits... this one however is Supposed to have a 10s limiter. Meaning it can only trigger once every 10s.... and assuming you don't get critted for 5s or so after the 10s expires this would give you another 20% chance roll... considering the high crit rate I would guess this one will proc for most people around 2-4 times a min... which doesn't seem all that over powered to me as long as it does in fact have the 10s limiter borticus mentioned.

    The passive borg regen.... myself I think its to strong and needs to be toned down a bit, shield regen has always been ALLOT better then people give it credit for... if you doubt it just switch to 125 shield power and have a buddy shoot at you with nothing else up... regen is not bad in this game at all, if you are running 75+ shield power, the numbers I am hearing people pull though are crazy... my sci toon already pull 1200 regen when I go to full shields... if I understand this passive right those toons should be able to pull close to 2000 with this passive...

    One other thing I am wondering about and not sure if anyone has tested... Do the Sci Shield regen units also effect the bonus from the passive... if they do I could imagine a sci with a borg shield 1-2 field gens and 1-2 regen units would have darn close to perfect shields if they can keep there shield power over 75. Guess I have to break out my target shields 3s again.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    does anyone know if the placates "stack"? also, is it energy weapons only that trigger the placate?

    the "one crit they all crit" with torps/mines could be very powerful if both those questions anwser "yes".

    -_-


    and they wonder why we're so upset about things they do.

    yep.

    they care.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • aetam1aetam1 Member Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I suppose they just wanted to make sure that every 1v1 ends in a draw. You will either not be able to overcome shield healing or you can't target the enemy due to placate.

    Or they want to force the cheese on us. Tric mines wont care that much about shield heal.

    My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    maicake716 wrote: »
    does anyone know if the placates "stack"? also, is it energy weapons only that trigger the placate?

    the "one crit they all crit" with torps/mines could be very powerful if both those questions anwser "yes".

    -_-


    and they wonder why we're so upset about things they do.

    yep.

    they care.

    As far as I know the same logic would apply to plasma energy weapons procs... of course we are getting a nice plasma torp around the same time that has a 100% chance to land a nice burn dot... Going by Mancons vid it doesn't seem there is any resist granted... even if it doesn't stack a string of dot crits should do the trick.

    I look forward to watching borg cubes and gates freak out and switch targets all over the place it should be funny.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
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  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Hmm Evasive conn doffs might look good again... as well as aegis 2 piece... toons with out Elusive will regret it terribly....

    Seems to me if someone is being really annoying the best thing to do is evasive... and perhaps devidian subspace thingy to boost your defense high enough that they can't land enough crits to be annoying... and then kill them with before they wear off.... haha ya this doesn't sound good.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Hm, the shield heals need to be countered by circumventing shields. The placate could be countered with AOE (which is too weak to achieve anything on its own) and with coordinating one's fire... if someone shoots at your buddy, then he won't be able to shoot (and placate) you... so, it will be more like

    A shoots at B, placating him, while B gets his shield heals. B shoots at C, C shoots at D, placating him, and triggering his shield heals, D shoots at A.

    I'd say you are better off with the shield heal.

    blaa blaa blaa more focuse fire...

    Don't think you really understand the 5v5 dynamics that this is going to change... right now you can force teams to mess up on there heal rotations. (which unless there brain dead = > healing then dmg) ... right now you can put some preasure on a healer or a fake target and draw out heals so you can in fact kill the real target... what this passive does is give the healers a HUGE cushion to sit on that means putting fire on them will be next to pointless... if a team has a engi healer all they have to do is high rotate shield freq, and perhaps a shield bat to boost there regen to stupid numbers, and they can continue to concentrate there healing on the team. A wise team that is running combos of placate procs on escorts and shield heals on cruisers... will be so annoying that the game will be unplayable as I see it... as it is well matched teams go 30+min... more passive healing for the healing team mates, and placate procs for the dmg dealers... I have no doubt 2 well built and good teams will litterly call matches at 1+ hour with scores like 2 to 1. Unless everyone just starts dropping tric mines.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • cliftona91cliftona91 Member Posts: 254
    edited December 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    I think it is better to not count on any nerfs in this area, but draw conclusions from it. Hm, leaning back and thinking about it... what will be the results of "more passive shield heals in PvP"?

    Focus fire from 3-5 people will still destroy a ship. Escort Alpha strikes will be largely unaffected, unless you count on crits too much. Pressure damage (over a certain time > 6 seconds) will obviously suffer. As someone else said, circumventing shields becomes more important. Transphasic torpedoes, plasma torpedoes (and the new versions of the Scorpion fighters that use them), possibly even plasma beams, Eject Warp Plasma... draining energy with polarons, energy siphon, consoles and drones will still be very useful.

    And DEM3 for cruisers that can have it.
  • illcadiaillcadia Member Posts: 1,412 Bug Hunter
    edited December 2012
    mancom wrote: »
    Here is a video showing the effect of the T4 placate proc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9ZX8-mQGq4


    Regarding the healing procs: I also felt that they were too powerful when I first saw the stats. Today I could do some tests thanks to some friendly players who had reached T4 rep. The healing is completely overpowered. A tactical escort with the two T4 shield heals and a regular EPtS/TSS/TT escort setup was able to tank the damage of a tactical Jem'hadar ship while standing still. With only TT and shield redistribution in addition to the procs one can almost tank a tactical DPS cruiser.


    And of course Cryptic took precautions: Neither of the two heals show up in the combat log as to avoid hard numbers being posted to show just how bad the situation is.



    Testing for the shield heal is rather borked at the moment, because it is erroneously applying the shield heal ever 1 second, not every 6 seconds.
  • mancommancom Member Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    illcadia wrote: »
    Testing for the shield heal is rather borked at the moment, because it is erroneously applying the shield heal ever 1 second, not every 6 seconds.
    If this is true, they need to sack their QA department and whoever wrote the code for this.
    1042856
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    mancom wrote: »
    If this is true, they need to sack their QA department and whoever wrote the code for this.

    No kidding... its like they never tested any of the gear and bonuses after tier 3.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
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  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    shookyang wrote: »
    If spending less than 5 mins a day to get 400 Romulan marks after 10 days (at it's worst) is grinding, I don't know how else to help you.

    Read my reply again. Its not the grind in itself. Its the other thing that has to be ground to remain competitive in PvP when PvP itself is still unbalanced in many areas.

    I was lamenting the old days when one could play with Greens and Blues and the sets where a boost but not needed, then DOffs came along and added thier own twists, and now we have Rep Passives that seem to be unbalanced are a part of the mix.

    It does make me wonder how anyone is going to ever enter PvP and expect to catch up with those whom have been here a while considering if one looks closely these Rep passives are mainly a PvP thing. Very few, if any of them, are needed or have much effect in making PvE any easier than it already is.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
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