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A new nerf thread by Pax - Tier 4 Omega Passive for Shields

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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    p2wsucks wrote: »
    Lastly, I wouldn't assume the changes are PvP related, they tend to adjust things when they're obviously OP in PvE long before changing them in PvP.

    If only there were some way to put this in a very large font, bold, underlined, flashing highlight, with a catchy jingle at the top of the PvP section of the forums...

    ...but there are certain folks with a certain fondness for a certain aspect of the game that would completely miss it and still blame PvP for many changes.

    :(
  • wolfpack12cwolfpack12c Member Posts: 242 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    After a lot of study and testing this proc seems to not be as bad as i thought if anything it evens the playing field a little. I was against it at first but what it dose is make team play 10x more important i was just doing a fkeet pvp and came to relize we had no issue killing the players with it when we worked together. I think the proc can stay the way it is but lower the heal by maybe 25%. After today i find that it just might be what was needed to make the lesser pvp based players get on the level of the mid range players. If it dise seem like to big of an issue the by all mean feel free to disagree but ive changed my mind. Dont nerf
    -"There is no such thing as an I win button!" "Um, Sir. Whats this button that says (I win) for then?"
  • p2wsucksp2wsucks Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    After a lot of study and testing this proc seems to not be as bad as i thought if anything it evens the playing field a little. I was against it at first but what it dose is make team play 10x more important i was just doing a fkeet pvp and came to relize we had no issue killing the players with it when we worked together. I think the proc can stay the way it is but lower the heal by maybe 25%. After today i find that it just might be what was needed to make the lesser pvp based players get on the level of the mid range players. If it dise seem like to big of an issue the by all mean feel free to disagree but ive changed my mind. Dont nerf

    I'm sorry, but this is way too anecdotal and lacking of specifics.

    1st, you mention you're on a team, but were you fighting PuGs, other teams?

    Was the other side good before these changes? Did they focus fire and cross support?

    Was your team good before these changes? How much did you focus fire and cross support?

    Did either team use more advanced tactics such as decoying, hit & run, disrupting/disabling support ships, elaborate debuff/attack combinations etc?

    Why is handing out a crutch that "make the lesser pvp based players get on the level of mid range players" a good thing?

    How much if any P2W or other OP TRIBBLE was used aside from the reputation proc? Was anyone using the placate proc etc?
    [Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
    Random Quote from Kerrat
    "Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
    C&H Fed banter
  • stevehalestevehale Member Posts: 437
    edited December 2012
    Anything that makes a bad player better also makes an exceptional player better. It doesn't close the gap, it just shifts it.
    __________________________________________
    Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
    It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
    May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    It's just flat out stupid, completely makes tractor beans and tachyon beams and the vesta beam and the maco heavy grav beam... Basically any ability that uses a duration target lock completely useless.

    The moment they flicker your powered go onto cooldown.

    Way to nerf science yet again -_-
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • blznfunblznfun Member Posts: 241 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I can't wait till the day the devs just tell the community shut up, stop your whining, do their thing and say, "This is the way its going to be..." Like it or don't. We don't care.

    For you neysayers out there that are going to say, "Then I won't play!" Good, we didn't need you anyways...
    jeremy-t_doff_signiture5635.jpg
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  • rooster75rooster75 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Wow talk about a pot calling the kettle black roflmao, troll much there do ya? :D

    All the time. :cool:
  • p2wsucksp2wsucks Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    blznfun wrote: »
    I can't wait till the day the devs just tell the community shut up, stop your whining, do their thing and say, "This is the way its going to be..." Like it or don't. We don't care.

    For you neysayers out there that are going to say, "Then I won't play!" Good, we didn't need you anyways...

    Who's the emo angry one again?

    All I did was point out you were factually wrong ...
    [Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
    Random Quote from Kerrat
    "Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
    C&H Fed banter
  • blznfunblznfun Member Posts: 241 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    p2wsucks wrote: »
    Who's the emo angry one again?

    All I did was point out you were factually wrong ...

    Um, I don't think my comment was directed at you, and I don't think I even read your comment. I was just pointing something out that is factually true. I can see why PvP is so broke in this game because of all the whining that goes on about "this and that" and whats "overpowered" and what's not. Eventually the devs are going to say "buzz off" to the PvP community and just do what they want. Personally, I would like it that way. Keep everything as designed and just do their thing...

    It is coming, its only a matter of time. "History" proves that.
    jeremy-t_doff_signiture5635.jpg
    =/\= 106th Fleet =/\=
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    Original Handle: the_orig_jean_luc_picard
  • p2wsucksp2wsucks Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    blznfun wrote: »
    Um, I don't think my comment was directed at you, and I don't think I even read your comment. I was just pointing something out that is factually true. I can see why PvP is so broke in this game because of all the whining that goes on about "this and that" and whats "overpowered" and what's not. Eventually the devs are going to say "buzz off" to the PvP community and just do what they want. Personally, I would like it that way. Keep everything as designed and just do their thing...

    It is coming, its only a matter of time. "History" proves that.

    Hate to break it to you, but Devs have been doing that from the start. You really know nothing about this game do you?
    [Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
    Random Quote from Kerrat
    "Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
    C&H Fed banter
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    blznfun wrote: »
    I can't wait till the day the devs just tell the community shut up, stop your whining, do their thing and say, "This is the way its going to be..." Like it or don't. We don't care.

    For you neysayers out there that are going to say, "Then I won't play!" Good, we didn't need you anyways...

    I am a veteran pvpr and I would be happy if they said this. Why? Because it would be the truth finally. I hate being lied to by them about how important pvp is to then only to then be shafted.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • blznfunblznfun Member Posts: 241 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    p2wsucks wrote: »
    Hate to break it to you, but Devs have been doing that from the start. You really know nothing about this game do you?

    Obviously it hasn't been enough. They still listen to the PvP community too much. I would rather see them not listen at all and just focus on bug reports, or things that are actually broken in this game that need attention. If this means the death or removal of PvP then so be it.
    I used to be an avid PvP'r (not associated with the OPvP crowd). But when I see the attitude of some (not all but most) that use and abuse everything to their advantage to get a kill, and when that can't be accomplished anymore and refuse to adapt and change to the changing of an MMO is where I have a problem. It seems that everytime something good comes up, the majority of the PvP community whines about it because they can't get that "all important kill/win" easily anymore and actually have to "earn" their wins.

    Get over it, get over the selfishness, and the desire to win every match you encounter and learn to change like the game changes, I think at that point you will be fine.
    jeremy-t_doff_signiture5635.jpg
    =/\= 106th Fleet =/\=
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    Joined: Oct/2008
    Original Handle: the_orig_jean_luc_picard
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Wasnt it the PvP community that got the MACO shield bug fixed, the TB mine, SNB, VM, AMS and many other broken or out of whack things to the attention of the Devs?

    Frankly I think they have done more good than harm to STO. If not in some part for them this game would truely be a pointless Monty Hall endevor.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Outside of some clarification on what archon said... might show up in Tribble notes - how is this thread still going?
  • blznfunblznfun Member Posts: 241 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    bitemepwe wrote: »
    Wasnt it the PvP community that got the MACO shield bug fixed, the TB mine, SNB, VM, AMS and many other broken or out of whack things to the attention of the Devs?

    Frankly I think they have done more good than harm to STO. If not in some part for them this game would truely be a pointless Monty Hall endevor.

    Bugs, yes, out of whack things, no. Out of whack is only "out of whack" to the PvP community because it doesn't allow for that easy kill.

    But frankly, I have said my peace, and I don't want to get drug into your PvP whining fest here like always happens with the PvP posters.
    jeremy-t_doff_signiture5635.jpg
    =/\= 106th Fleet =/\=
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    Original Handle: the_orig_jean_luc_picard
  • captain01982captain01982 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    blznfun is right..the pvp community are the ones who are whining babies..every time cryptic comes out with something..its the pvp community that whines..and what happens cryptic nerfs because quite frankly pvp community are the babies of the game..if you dont like something cryptic does then stop playing the game..end of story.bottom line..blznfun is not the baby..its the pvpers
    =/\= 106th Fleet =/\=
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  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I have a couple points to bring up:

    1. This thread is getting majorly taken off topic.

    2. There's a lot of people who need to be told: Pot meet kettle. And for a more obscure one: Tu quoque

    Folks, if you start making complaints about PvP, IN the PvP forum, you really, honestly think that is going to go over well? I mean that. If no one wants to get into 'whine fests with PvPers' in this area of the forum...the solution is simple, DON'T POST IN HERE. Getting into that elsewhere in the forum with a PvPer, that is a different tale.

    By just simply complaining, you don't help the matter at all whatsoever, and in turn, eventually become no better, or even worse than the very thing you are making complaints on in the first place.

    KDF players might be seen as whining, PvPers might be seen as whining, because it seems to really seems to be the only thing that ever works anymore. Long ago, players 'played nice' and everything when the game was much smaller, and much more new, they didn't know what was going to happen up to this point. Eventually, playing nice got nothing, so they whined and made as much noise as they could until things changed.

    If a line of events only ever brings about a single conclusion, and nothing else works, then wouldn't you do that again and again? Besides, no one, NO ONE has 'clean hands' about not whining. ALL groups have done it to varying degrees of success over the course of this game.

    So again, pot meet kettle.

    Now, let's actually get back on topic. I don't always agree with Pax, but I WAS enjoying the discussion we were having for the most part until it got de-railed.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • p2wsucksp2wsucks Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    blznfun is right..the pvp community are the ones who are whining babies..every time cryptic comes out with something..its the pvp community that whines..and what happens cryptic nerfs because quite frankly pvp community are the babies of the game..if you dont like something cryptic does then stop playing the game..end of story.bottom line..blznfun is not the baby..its the pvpers

    Actually, he's wrong factually and now so are you. Your fleetmate and now you have been the ones tossing insults around. This is typical PvEer forum PvP, insult rather than list out facts to support a position. I have actually recieved a death threat from a PvEer via a forum post, nothing close to that from PvPers.

    Cryptic rarely nerfs anything. Most often it is fixes b/c of the negative impact it has on PvE. This game has been nothing but 1 big giant power creep since f2p and quite frankly it started before that when it was pay-to-play and they introduced C-store ships and lied about them being balanced. A Dev confirmed this by saying they were always designed to be OP as a way to defend the 1st +.5 ships and their consoles being released.

    Your fleetmate admitted to not reading the post of others. If he had, he'd have read how prior to this stuff making it onto tribble let alone the holodeck myself and others had expressed from both PvP and PvE perspectives concerns regarding the reputation system. He would have seen how the Devs ignore those concerns and suggestions around them.

    All you two are doing is trolling and badly.
    [Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
    Random Quote from Kerrat
    "Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
    C&H Fed banter
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    mimey2 wrote: »
    Now, let's actually get back on topic.

    The topic was kind of finished, no?

    Stuff was broken. They're going to fix it. Details are vague as usual. There will likely be another thread after the fix.
  • shookyangshookyang Member Posts: 1,122
    edited December 2012
    12 second placate seems a remarkably long time to me.
    Well, the T4 Romulan heal on crit ability can only be used once every 10 seconds at best.

    Perhaps they are adding the 2 seconds you placated the target in this cooldown?
  • merimac0201merimac0201 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Hey, just give all the T4 passives to NPCs and listen to the whining in the PVE Forums...
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Hey, just give all the T4 passives to NPCs and listen to the whining in the PVE Forums...


    Hahaha. So true. :) I'd love to see that happen.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Hey, just give all the T4 passives to NPCs and listen to the whining in the PVE Forums...

    BEST IDEA EVER! seriously, give the npc's even a fraciton of what they give us.

    id love to see npc's with snb doffs, and with vm's all over the place with doffs, and grav pulses that go 30+seconds, and chaining shockwaves, and multiple tricobalts being deployed and the "time stop" stuff and and....

    -drools- like i said... just a FRACTION of what we get is needed to be passed onto the npc's.


    please.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Oh man, that would be so awesome! Borg one shotting you with invisi-torps?

    That'd be nothing compared to the random Wells class appearing outta nowhere, time stopping you, then dropping 2 or 3 NPC-buffed trics. :D
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • heegoo419heegoo419 Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    blznfun wrote: »
    I can see why PvP is so broke in this game because of all the whining that goes on about "this and that" and whats "overpowered" and what's not.

    It is coming, its only a matter of time. "History" proves that.



    Last I checked, none of us in the PvP community have direct access to any part of the development of this game, so to say that we broke it with our "whining" is somewhat ignorant. Cryptic is the ones either breaking things or not doing the proper testing before releasing it onto holodeck.

    Obviously it hasn't been enough. They still listen to the PvP community too much. I would rather see them not listen at all and just focus on bug reports, or things that are actually broken in this game that need attention. If this means the death or removal of PvP then so be it.
    I used to be an avid PvP'r (not associated with the OPvP crowd). But when I see the attitude of some (not all but most) that use and abuse everything to their advantage to get a kill, and when that can't be accomplished anymore and refuse to adapt and change to the changing of an MMO is where I have a problem. It seems that everytime something good comes up, the majority of the PvP community whines about it because they can't get that "all important kill/win" easily anymore and actually have to "earn" their wins.

    Get over it, get over the selfishness, and the desire to win every match you encounter and learn to change like the game changes, I think at that point you will be fine.

    "They listen to the pvp community too much".....

    Seriously?? *rolls eyes*

    You want them to focus on bug reports? Well no kidding we would all like to have them focus on bug reports. It would be great if that system actually worked, and not just get generic responses back and then 6 months later we get a fix for it...

    It is pretty clear that you don't PvP anymore, because I'm pretty sure that 99% of the active PvPe's will tell you that they are constantly having to adapt and change for PvP. And EVERYONE who PvP's EARN their wins, kinda the point of PvP to be honest.


    b
    lznfun is right..the pvp community are the ones who are whining babies..every time cryptic comes out with something..its the pvp community that whines..and what happens cryptic nerfs because quite frankly pvp community are the babies of the game..if you dont like something cryptic does then stop playing the game..end of story.bottom line..blznfun is not the baby..its the pvpers


    First off let me say that while I admire that you are loyal to your Fleetmate, calling an entire community within this game "babies" because we want something fixed that is either broken or not tested enough before it was released to live, is very much ignorant. And thats ok because everyone is entiled to their own opinion and I as a member of the PvP community forgive you for this comment due based on that you made this comment is ignorance, and this is partially why:

    Believe it or not it's not just the PvP community who does not like the way this T4 shield regen passive it working right now. I PvP yes, but am also a very active PvE player as well. I love doing my STF's and my Fleet actions on both ground and space.

    And this T4 passive which I have earned on my main toon is ruining the fun of STF's and Fleet actions for me. I did a Hive Space Elite with my fleet yesterday and my shields never dropped a single time. Not once. The only time I dies was because of a 750,000 plasma ball hit. All I had to do was park in one spot, fire my weapons and keep and hazard emitter going just to keep the plasma from bleeding through too much. It ruined the fun and excitement and the challenge for me what-so-ever.

    So this is my thoughts on this, the reason why your are upset that the PvP community brought this shield passive situation up is because you're having issues running the elite STF's and you need this broken power to keep you alive. I would be more than happy to help you correct this issue by showing you all how to complete these STF's on elite quickly and while still having fun. My @ handle is @Aternal99 So please I'm all about sharing any knowledge I have so hit me up any time
    Risa Squadron
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    i was in a C&H last night vs like 3 invincible escorts, and even though i could theoretically burn them all to death, they were imposable to tank. we were losing pretty badly, so i said TRIBBLE it and slotted both tier 4 shield heals, brokenness be damned. i was then able to tank all of them, and kill them 3v1. they of course couldn't out damage the broken passive, but i could still burn them to death. we ended up winning after that.

    sorry, my new fleet vorcha plasma build is invincible now :rolleyes:
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    LOL, way to go Cryptic. :(

    At least those clowns got clowned.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • doomiciledoomicile Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Dying in PvE is serious business.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • dareaudareau Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    blznfun wrote: »
    Obviously it hasn't been enough. They still listen to the PvP community too much. I would rather see them not listen at all and just focus on bug reports, or things that are actually broken in this game that need attention. If this means the death or removal of PvP then so be it.
    I used to be an avid PvP'r (not associated with the OPvP crowd). But when I see the attitude of some (not all but most) that use and abuse everything to their advantage to get a kill, and when that can't be accomplished anymore and refuse to adapt and change to the changing of an MMO is where I have a problem. It seems that everytime something good comes up, the majority of the PvP community whines about it because they can't get that "all important kill/win" easily anymore and actually have to "earn" their wins.

    Get over it, get over the selfishness, and the desire to win every match you encounter and learn to change like the game changes, I think at that point you will be fine.

    I don't PvP.

    Currently running both T4 Rep Shield heals, no shield-affecting consoles, on a Vesta. About the only time I see the shields on this build drop into yellow is when parked and playing the "trade shot for shot" game with a Mogli or comprable ship. If I do 50% throttle on 52/25 power, I barely take visible shield damage - so much so that I've swapped my ensign universal Tac Team into HY torp I so I can play with the Omega Torpedo's "disintegration effect"... I don't die from direct hull hits, I die from burns and bleedthrough now-a-days...

    Sorry, when the game has any kind of "I win" button / skill, something needs to be done about it. Here we have a situation calling for a repair, and I await what it'll look like...
    Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...

    To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
  • stealthriderstealthrider Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    As more and more people unlock T4 reputation, more and more are abusing these passives.

    People I could easily kill a few days ago are now invincible. I get my T4 passives tomorrow, but I'm not slotting them until this TRIBBLE is fixed. It's just not fun to see 800,000 damage dealt and 0 kills at the end of a match.
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