Except with season 7, those character slots are worth even less as you are just compounding the time it takes to gear and equip them with the huge amounts of time and resource gating. Cryptic really made having alts and replaying the game worthless.
I run an alt for every ship I have, and right now that's a lot of escorts. Just started building one for the steamrunner.
Sollaf: Join date Sep 2009, Lifer. Disgruntled with the JHSS, my Bug feels less shiny now.
It has been mentioned here a few times but the reason the price of zen has fallen is cause there is no use for it at the moment.
Look at the date, what happened? The next special project for starbases came out. The result is most of the playerbase is looking for dilithium to complete the project. by contrast, there is nothing in the C-store to entice players to look for zen.
I have been following the exchange pretty closely for about a week. it started out about 140-130 when I started looking into it. With the autumn sale, it spiked up to 152-155, but didn't maintain that level. Probably cause it really didn't benefit enough people to warrant a complete infux of zen. After the sale, it slowly went down, till today it plummeted with the release of the next starbase project.
Get some new "shiny" in the C-store for the masses to buy and it will most likely go up again.
I would, but there is nothing to buy. Zen is worthless with nothing of value to buy. Might as well keep the stockpile
That is my point. Nothing new in the C-store means no reason for Zen, so the price of zen falls, while a new limited time project in starbase means Dilithium need is at an all time high, so naturally it is more expensive then ever.
Granted a 50 point decrease is a bit much (people where talking about 100 dil = 1 Zen), but for the most part it seems to have stablized to mostly around 120 dil to 1 zen. If Cryptic releases something new into the C-store it will either go up to 150 or probably be closer to 135-40, since the starbase project is still pretty new.
I think the issue with the Vesta is it isn't really all that new.
Look at it from an instant gratification perspective. The Special Project just came out, So naturally people want to complete it NOW. Which means they want boatloads of Dil and they wanted it NOW.
The Vesta by comparison, is about 2-3 weeks old. True, you are probably still going to have people who don't have it and want it, but most of the Instant gratificationers already have one, so those who mght want it and don't have it aren't numerous enough to combat those who want the special project.
It has been mentioned here a few times but the reason the price of zen has fallen is cause there is no use for it at the moment.
Look at the date, what happened? The next special project for starbases came out. The result is most of the playerbase is looking for dilithium to complete the project. by contrast, there is nothing in the C-store to entice players to look for zen.
I have been following the exchange pretty closely for about a week. it started out about 140-130 when I started looking into it. With the autumn sale, it spiked up to 152-155, but didn't maintain that level. Probably cause it really didn't benefit enough people to warrant a complete infux of zen. After the sale, it slowly went down, till today it plummeted with the release of the next starbase project.
Get some new "shiny" in the C-store for the masses to buy and it will most likely go up again.
Also: by now, even the 'highrollers' will be reaching the end of the stockpiles of dil-converted old style stf rewards, I suspect.
It's definitely overpriced when it's not worth getting unless you get the bundle for all the consoles. $50 for a good ship is outrageous. I was trying to save up Dil for the Vesta bundle, but with S7 nerfing the best ways to make Dil, I gave up and bought the Excelsior refit during the sale. I'm pretty happy with that purchase, and I'm still able to get a decent amount of Zen every once in a while since the price of Zen is plummeting.
_____________________________________________________
Original Username - njdss4 - Original Join Date - July 28, 2008 (Official Forum Launch Date)
you do all realize Cryptic can simply add whatever amount of dilithium they want to this equation ? This isn't free market at work because it's a completely virtual currency which is controlled by folks behind a keyboard : bottom line is they will decide when and if they interfere .Comparing this to real world market mechanisms is ludicrous , to put it mildly ....
Cryptic have said several times that they don't/won't/can't interfere directly in the dilithium exchange.
If you take another look at the numbers, you will realize that less zen is being sold. Even though the dilithium costs have fallen, the amount of zen being sold has also fallen.
1 cent (1 Zen) currently = 116 insignificant pieces of dilithium.
Anyone selling zen at this point is throwing away money.
Last time I used the exchange to put zen into dill it was 170 dill for one zen.
Now it's 122 dill for one zen but the prices off ships starbases and all stay the same ???
I don't know about you guys but this is a bit lame to do this to us :eek:
Drop the prices off ships and starbases or get the exchange going again this is no fun Devs !!!
Don't you guys think you sqeeze us enough allready ??? Jeeeezzzzzz:mad::mad::mad:
Do the prices in your local game store adjust to follow the international exchange rates?
No, then why should Cryptic adjust ingame prices based on a player controlled exchange rate?
Right now Dilithium is EXTREMELY VALUABLE, and thus commanding a premium price.
Speaking for myself, since I literally do not have the time to grind a lot of Dilithium and since I place a much higher value on my hard cash than something that only exists on PWE's servers and in my head...
No, Dilithium is not all that valuable. If I could get it in large enough amounts to make a splash in how fast my fleet projects complete, I might change my mind a little bit.
As it is? I'm better off resigning myself to the idea that I need to hoard Dilithium over the long haul and save myself some money. I've burned through enough of my meager pre-S6 reserves already.
First, Dilithium is NOT more valuable than Zen.
PWE will ensure that.
The last thing they would want is to have an in-game currency de-value REAL world currency to the point of near parity.
You'd think they'd want to encourage people to buy Zen, wouldn't you? But even when the exchange rate is relatively high in favor of Zen, you can't buy enough Dilithium at a reasonable price to keep up with all of the sinks. So what's the point?
I know there are some players out there who seem to have money to burn, but I'm not one of them.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Enh... I could see Cryptic releasing a new service store item. Maybe a Dil refining cap increase..... hehe.... 1000 zen for a 500 point increase, and it stacks up to 8 times. Ok maybe 1000 Zen is too high, but you get the idea.
No, Dilithium is not all that valuable. If I could get it in large enough amounts to make a splash in how fast my fleet projects complete, I might change my mind a little bit.
Wait. You're saying it's not valuable because it's too scarce? How does that make sense? It may not be a good value for the money but that's a different question than whether it's valuable. (And it shouldn't be a separate question but it is.)
Okay... Here's how I think it should be.
Dilithium? More expensive than it is. Like, 25 dil per ZEN.
Dilithium costs? MUCH, MUCH lower but MORE of them. Go ahead and merge it with EC.
Basically, reduce the dilithium cost of every required (read: non-special) fleet project by 75% and cut the time in half, maybe 25% lower reward. Reduce all personal purchase prices by 25%. Make everything cost dilithium. Make everything award ore. Sell a few refinement cap increases or change refinement to be a shorter cooldown, smaller amount. (Ie. 3000 an hour refinement.)
25 dil per ZEN would be fine if the big costs were less but were more common. Focus on generating real activity and real choice. Choice enhances value.
Two more things:
- I'd also look at the addition of what I'd call "Social Projects." These are cheap-ish (when considering that EVERYONE can contribute, so maybe 300k dil), consumable projects that are tied to an area. So, for example, ESD would have one. Anyone in the game could contribute. And on completion, it triggers a 5 hour wedding event in ESD's main hall or maybe something like an extra academy event at SFA like the Q rodeo event. Special vendors pop for the event, offering pets, items, and discount consumables. Again, more sinks, not higher price.
- I'd look at Fleet Special Projects as something which should have an INDIVIDUAL perk for Fleet Credits for all fleet members who complete them, bought from Officer of the Watch. Complete the decoration/mannequin project? Go to OttW and he'll sell you the title of "Tailor" for 5k Fleet Credits, which comes with, say, 10k Development CXP bundled in. Costs Cryptic nothing extra directly but makes Fleet Special projects valuable. Do the extra station security project? Get an option to buy a title like "Security Analyst" and 10k Military CXP for 5k Fleet Credits. This makes FSPs a better value.
The way I see it, zen is a decent investment, and now that its price has crashed a bit I have no problem buying it up. Yes I have. Stockpile of dilithium from the stf conversion. My thoughts on the zen buying is that even if the price does not go back to the record highs of 300 plus, I could still flip it into some keys and drop them off at the exchange, then use the ec to buy mkxii goods or something else.
It is not your standard average player who is making a much smaller amount. It is those players who farmed 20+ alts for the 'investigate' daily. That takes a huge amount off of the market. But I could be wrong.
Yeah, I have 4 alts and that was their major source of Dil. I would do the Officer Report on each of them, then go play on my main toon. Sure, it was an exploit, but it did put more Dil in the economy and fleet projects. Now my alts average <1000 Dil per day from Doff missions and the Midterm. Where I used to make about 2500. Overall I'm down 7200 Dil per day. Just means I contribute ALOT less to projects and etc.
So if most are like me, that means Dil is worth more now so the Dil per Zen cost will drop alot. Simple economics, supply and demand. I have my bid out to buy 4400 Zen for 25 Dil/Zen... just a matter of time!
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
If people want to sell their Zen for cheap I will continue to buy it all the way down for one simple reason.
Zen = real life money
Dilithium = leisure time spent playing a game
Yes, I understand somebody will come up with the argument that one can earn Zen for free by doing surveys, however I'm willing to bet that it accounts for less than 10% of the total Zen out there.
Add in the fact that eventually PWE/Cryptic will add something to the C-Store that everybody will want which will cause the Zen/Dilithium ratio to spike right back up.
Yeah, I have 4 alts and that was their major source of Dil. I would do the Officer Report on each of them, then go play on my main toon. Sure, it was an exploit, but it did put more Dil in the economy and fleet projects. Now my alts average <1000 Dil per day from Doff missions and the Midterm. Where I used to make about 2500. Overall I'm down 7200 Dil per day. Just means I contribute ALOT less to projects and etc.
So if most are like me, that means Dil is worth more now so the Dil per Zen cost will drop alot. Simple economics, supply and demand. I have my bid out to buy 4400 Zen for 25 Dil/Zen... just a matter of time!
There is potentially a hard floor in place at 25 or 50 zen. Today's patch could EVENTUALLY change issues but i think Cryptic needs to prepare for a rough crash. We havent seen the bottom of this market yet.
Fleet projects: 250k (Granted these get turned into fleet creds but fleet items also need dilithium)
Vesta pack 5k Zen: The vesta package looks like a solid group of ships that one might be able to use effectively no matter their spec. Same couldnt be said for the Oddy's.
EC limit : 500 Zen. This may be the single most required item for a free player to have. But they never realize it until they've burned a couple thousand zen. THIS is something i feel needs ot be changed. an F2P player who cant put money in constantly isnt going to be thinking about that item when he's got the cash for a ship. Something i feel needs to change in either the advertising of this item or its necessity.
Changes are coming and that's sweet it might even bring some people back. BUT the damage has been done and there's a lot of lost ground to make up. There are many reasons STILL to horde dilithium.
No, Dilithium is not all that valuable. If I could get it in large enough amounts to make a splash in how fast my fleet projects complete, I might change my mind a little bit.
You mean those people who pay even more zen after s7 for dilithium are fools who dont know the true value :rolleyes:
value is given by how much people are willing to pay.Even a s*** can have a huge value if a large enough group of people are willing to pay for it.Doesnt matter if its virtual or not....value has nothing to do with touch :P
now where is the person who said "it will never go bellow 125"
Wait. You're saying it's not valuable because it's too scarce? How does that make sense? It may not be a good value for the money but that's a different question than whether it's valuable. (And it shouldn't be a separate question but it is.)
As far as my wallet is concerned, it's the same. If it's not good value for the money, to the point where I'm unwilling to spend money to get it, then it's not that valuable.
I don't disagree that Dilithium is important in the sense of what you can get for it in-game. But it's not real, it's entertainment. If extracting the money from my wallet starts to hurt, it's no longer entertaining.
Dilithium is artificially valuable in-game because Cryptic dribbles it out with an eyedropper and sucks it up with a firehose. I personally can't earn enough of it to exchange it for Zen, buy a lot of stuff from the Dil store, or complete projects quickly, so it's less valuable to me than it might be otherwise.
And I will reiterate that I will NEVER spend 1 Zen to get a lousy 25 Dilithium, EVER. You can't buy anything worth buying with 25 Dilithium, and you pretty much need at least 1000X that. If it drops below about 140, I won't even consider it.
So I'm not willing to pay for it, and I can't earn enough of it in the short run to exchange it for goods from the Zen store or otherwise significantly enhance my gaming experience. Hence, it is both scarce and non-valuable.
The way things work right now, it only encourages hoarding Dilithium. I spend as little of it as I can get away with, because I don't know when I'm going to need it or how much.
What Cryptic really needs to do is to improve the value of the C-Store and get people to put their leftover Zen into the exchange through the way they price things -- so that when you buy something you usually have Zen left over that you can't really spend on anything, so you buy Dilithium with it instead of sitting on it.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I'm still a bit baffled why the price of Dilithium hasn't gone down now that supply has increased. I can get my 8k per character limit in no time, providing I use the mark/bnp > dil projects.
As far as my wallet is concerned, it's the same. If it's not good value for the money, to the point where I'm unwilling to spend money to get it, then it's not that valuable.
I don't disagree that Dilithium is important in the sense of what you can get for it in-game. But it's not real, it's entertainment. If extracting the money from my wallet starts to hurt, it's no longer entertaining.
Dilithium is artificially valuable in-game because Cryptic dribbles it out with an eyedropper and sucks it up with a firehose. I personally can't earn enough of it to exchange it for Zen, buy a lot of stuff from the Dil store, or complete projects quickly, so it's less valuable to me than it might be otherwise.
And I will reiterate that I will NEVER spend 1 Zen to get a lousy 25 Dilithium, EVER. You can't buy anything worth buying with 25 Dilithium, and you pretty much need at least 1000X that. If it drops below about 140, I won't even consider it.
So I'm not willing to pay for it, and I can't earn enough of it in the short run to exchange it for goods from the Zen store or otherwise significantly enhance my gaming experience. Hence, it is both scarce and non-valuable.
The way things work right now, it only encourages hoarding Dilithium. I spend as little of it as I can get away with, because I don't know when I'm going to need it or how much.
What Cryptic really needs to do is to improve the value of the C-Store and get people to put their leftover Zen into the exchange through the way they price things -- so that when you buy something you usually have Zen left over that you can't really spend on anything, so you buy Dilithium with it instead of sitting on it.
Good to see some of the community mods posting again - was thinking you guys had gone awol
Comments
I've run out of things that I want to buy in the store. :P
I run an alt for every ship I have, and right now that's a lot of escorts. Just started building one for the steamrunner.
Looks like Brandon re-openned the thread in hopes that this time there will be no more name calling.
So lets keep it that way.
I remember it being in the 360 range months ago.
Look at the date, what happened? The next special project for starbases came out. The result is most of the playerbase is looking for dilithium to complete the project. by contrast, there is nothing in the C-store to entice players to look for zen.
I have been following the exchange pretty closely for about a week. it started out about 140-130 when I started looking into it. With the autumn sale, it spiked up to 152-155, but didn't maintain that level. Probably cause it really didn't benefit enough people to warrant a complete infux of zen. After the sale, it slowly went down, till today it plummeted with the release of the next starbase project.
Get some new "shiny" in the C-store for the masses to buy and it will most likely go up again.
Now it is needed for absolutely everything and zen is useless.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKUOB8MN4Kc
I'm not so sure that Cryptic is that smart. Math has always been one of their weakest points.
That is my point. Nothing new in the C-store means no reason for Zen, so the price of zen falls, while a new limited time project in starbase means Dilithium need is at an all time high, so naturally it is more expensive then ever.
Granted a 50 point decrease is a bit much (people where talking about 100 dil = 1 Zen), but for the most part it seems to have stablized to mostly around 120 dil to 1 zen. If Cryptic releases something new into the C-store it will either go up to 150 or probably be closer to 135-40, since the starbase project is still pretty new.
you can only have and play so many ships....unless you are a kdf
Look at it from an instant gratification perspective. The Special Project just came out, So naturally people want to complete it NOW. Which means they want boatloads of Dil and they wanted it NOW.
The Vesta by comparison, is about 2-3 weeks old. True, you are probably still going to have people who don't have it and want it, but most of the Instant gratificationers already have one, so those who mght want it and don't have it aren't numerous enough to combat those who want the special project.
It's ugly. It's overpriced.
Also: by now, even the 'highrollers' will be reaching the end of the stockpiles of dil-converted old style stf rewards, I suspect.
True enough, then you can fly all the ships. And keep up to date with the newest releases, if so inclined.
It's definitely overpriced when it's not worth getting unless you get the bundle for all the consoles. $50 for a good ship is outrageous. I was trying to save up Dil for the Vesta bundle, but with S7 nerfing the best ways to make Dil, I gave up and bought the Excelsior refit during the sale. I'm pretty happy with that purchase, and I'm still able to get a decent amount of Zen every once in a while since the price of Zen is plummeting.
Original Username - njdss4 - Original Join Date - July 28, 2008 (Official Forum Launch Date)
Cryptic have said several times that they don't/won't/can't interfere directly in the dilithium exchange.
Small correction.
Do the prices in your local game store adjust to follow the international exchange rates?
No, then why should Cryptic adjust ingame prices based on a player controlled exchange rate?
Cryptic, don't listen to these crybabies
:P
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Speaking for myself, since I literally do not have the time to grind a lot of Dilithium and since I place a much higher value on my hard cash than something that only exists on PWE's servers and in my head...
No, Dilithium is not all that valuable. If I could get it in large enough amounts to make a splash in how fast my fleet projects complete, I might change my mind a little bit.
As it is? I'm better off resigning myself to the idea that I need to hoard Dilithium over the long haul and save myself some money. I've burned through enough of my meager pre-S6 reserves already.
You'd think they'd want to encourage people to buy Zen, wouldn't you? But even when the exchange rate is relatively high in favor of Zen, you can't buy enough Dilithium at a reasonable price to keep up with all of the sinks. So what's the point?
I know there are some players out there who seem to have money to burn, but I'm not one of them.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
My character Tsin'xing
Wait. You're saying it's not valuable because it's too scarce? How does that make sense? It may not be a good value for the money but that's a different question than whether it's valuable. (And it shouldn't be a separate question but it is.)
Okay... Here's how I think it should be.
Dilithium? More expensive than it is. Like, 25 dil per ZEN.
Dilithium costs? MUCH, MUCH lower but MORE of them. Go ahead and merge it with EC.
Basically, reduce the dilithium cost of every required (read: non-special) fleet project by 75% and cut the time in half, maybe 25% lower reward. Reduce all personal purchase prices by 25%. Make everything cost dilithium. Make everything award ore. Sell a few refinement cap increases or change refinement to be a shorter cooldown, smaller amount. (Ie. 3000 an hour refinement.)
25 dil per ZEN would be fine if the big costs were less but were more common. Focus on generating real activity and real choice. Choice enhances value.
Two more things:
- I'd also look at the addition of what I'd call "Social Projects." These are cheap-ish (when considering that EVERYONE can contribute, so maybe 300k dil), consumable projects that are tied to an area. So, for example, ESD would have one. Anyone in the game could contribute. And on completion, it triggers a 5 hour wedding event in ESD's main hall or maybe something like an extra academy event at SFA like the Q rodeo event. Special vendors pop for the event, offering pets, items, and discount consumables. Again, more sinks, not higher price.
- I'd look at Fleet Special Projects as something which should have an INDIVIDUAL perk for Fleet Credits for all fleet members who complete them, bought from Officer of the Watch. Complete the decoration/mannequin project? Go to OttW and he'll sell you the title of "Tailor" for 5k Fleet Credits, which comes with, say, 10k Development CXP bundled in. Costs Cryptic nothing extra directly but makes Fleet Special projects valuable. Do the extra station security project? Get an option to buy a title like "Security Analyst" and 10k Military CXP for 5k Fleet Credits. This makes FSPs a better value.
Yeah, I have 4 alts and that was their major source of Dil. I would do the Officer Report on each of them, then go play on my main toon. Sure, it was an exploit, but it did put more Dil in the economy and fleet projects. Now my alts average <1000 Dil per day from Doff missions and the Midterm. Where I used to make about 2500. Overall I'm down 7200 Dil per day. Just means I contribute ALOT less to projects and etc.
So if most are like me, that means Dil is worth more now so the Dil per Zen cost will drop alot. Simple economics, supply and demand. I have my bid out to buy 4400 Zen for 25 Dil/Zen... just a matter of time!
Zen = real life money
Dilithium = leisure time spent playing a game
Yes, I understand somebody will come up with the argument that one can earn Zen for free by doing surveys, however I'm willing to bet that it accounts for less than 10% of the total Zen out there.
Add in the fact that eventually PWE/Cryptic will add something to the C-Store that everybody will want which will cause the Zen/Dilithium ratio to spike right back up.
There is potentially a hard floor in place at 25 or 50 zen. Today's patch could EVENTUALLY change issues but i think Cryptic needs to prepare for a rough crash. We havent seen the bottom of this market yet.
Fleet projects: 250k (Granted these get turned into fleet creds but fleet items also need dilithium)
Vesta pack 5k Zen: The vesta package looks like a solid group of ships that one might be able to use effectively no matter their spec. Same couldnt be said for the Oddy's.
EC limit : 500 Zen. This may be the single most required item for a free player to have. But they never realize it until they've burned a couple thousand zen. THIS is something i feel needs ot be changed. an F2P player who cant put money in constantly isnt going to be thinking about that item when he's got the cash for a ship. Something i feel needs to change in either the advertising of this item or its necessity.
Changes are coming and that's sweet it might even bring some people back. BUT the damage has been done and there's a lot of lost ground to make up. There are many reasons STILL to horde dilithium.
You mean those people who pay even more zen after s7 for dilithium are fools who dont know the true value :rolleyes:
value is given by how much people are willing to pay.Even a s*** can have a huge value if a large enough group of people are willing to pay for it.Doesnt matter if its virtual or not....value has nothing to do with touch :P
now where is the person who said "it will never go bellow 125"
As far as my wallet is concerned, it's the same. If it's not good value for the money, to the point where I'm unwilling to spend money to get it, then it's not that valuable.
I don't disagree that Dilithium is important in the sense of what you can get for it in-game. But it's not real, it's entertainment. If extracting the money from my wallet starts to hurt, it's no longer entertaining.
Dilithium is artificially valuable in-game because Cryptic dribbles it out with an eyedropper and sucks it up with a firehose. I personally can't earn enough of it to exchange it for Zen, buy a lot of stuff from the Dil store, or complete projects quickly, so it's less valuable to me than it might be otherwise.
And I will reiterate that I will NEVER spend 1 Zen to get a lousy 25 Dilithium, EVER. You can't buy anything worth buying with 25 Dilithium, and you pretty much need at least 1000X that. If it drops below about 140, I won't even consider it.
So I'm not willing to pay for it, and I can't earn enough of it in the short run to exchange it for goods from the Zen store or otherwise significantly enhance my gaming experience. Hence, it is both scarce and non-valuable.
The way things work right now, it only encourages hoarding Dilithium. I spend as little of it as I can get away with, because I don't know when I'm going to need it or how much.
What Cryptic really needs to do is to improve the value of the C-Store and get people to put their leftover Zen into the exchange through the way they price things -- so that when you buy something you usually have Zen left over that you can't really spend on anything, so you buy Dilithium with it instead of sitting on it.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Good to see some of the community mods posting again - was thinking you guys had gone awol