So, having read some 19 pages of factual reports of the economics of an F2P, P2W, MMO where everything is fine, no wait, the dilithium markets are failing, no wait, supply and demand, no wait, ... No one has hit on the issue of time.
First, let me say it doesn't matter if you talk of Zen or dilithium or EC or Lobi, they have NO real value. One may have spent money on zen, but try going to a store and buying food for your family or paying for college with zen. EVERYTHING in this game is a program backed by an executable file and some art work which, we're the server turned off and the game no more, you would have absolutely nothing to show for your time, effort or expenditures.
The real issue is time. The more hours one plays the more imaginary wealth they may obtain and the more influence they can have over imaginary MMO land. When we reduce the amount of awards obtained per time spent in game players with lots of time on their hands to play win, and those with job obligations, families, and the money to buy imaginary shinies lose. The Grind, as we call it, is time. It's valuable. Now we work at a game that was fun to get those shineys instead of just PLAYING the game. This is not the sort of conditions that make most want to sub and keeps spending real money in sprites and script. I personally want to come home after 11 hours, spend a couple hours in game, have some fun to take a break from reality, then go spend time with family after knowing my time in game had the result of fun with the side effect that I obtained some pixels and numbers to award my game experience. I want that time in game to be just as productive as possible, and want those awards to be the equivalent of those who don't spend a dime in game but have the shineys free.
There are more Dil sinks now and less being obtained per minute in game. This means less progression or dilution of progression in character development and projects. More time invested in activities that may be less fun. That is not the way to encourage the playerbase.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
I just can't do it. The foundry has been down for about a week, so I've been grinding. After 3 days at about 2 hours a night, I just can't continue to do these same monotonous tasks over and over and over again.
I'm not sure how any of you folks can play the game this way. It's like the entire mechanics of what we're supposed to do in sto now revolve around chores, and they are not easy chores to do. Well, wait, they are easy but the magnitude of the number of tasks are so huge.
I look at my starbase requirements and I instantly give up. It's like when dad punished me by giving me some scissors to mow the yard.
Right now, I'm in a small fleet that has about 10 people. Our embassy and our starbase projects are asking us right now for nearly 700,000 dilithium, after we've already dished more than half a million.
I keep in mind that SB progression isn't mean to be done in a day.
My fleet is also small and just got the phase 2 upgrade started. It took a surprisingly long time to collect the marks needed..... But we did it eventually.
As for the lawn mower analogy.... I'd liken it to mowing your yard with a Weed Cutter
If you'd actually read this thread properly you'd realize I already posted about it being really about time. Using our concern for the time we have to irritate us in to spending in order to save time.
We're like thousands of hamsters in a wheel that is in full frontal view of a promised dream of an immersive star trek game... but no matter how much we run... we'll never get there
Anyway, I've bought a lot of nice stuffs lately thanks to the dropping of Zen prices. It seems to be bouncing between 120 and 130 all week. I figure it'll stabilize somewhere in there.
Anyway, I've bought a lot of nice stuffs lately thanks to the dropping of Zen prices. It seems to be bouncing between 120 and 130 all week. I figure it'll stabilize somewhere in there.
My blog! Zen|Dilithium tracking on Thursdays http://samonmaui.blogspot.com As a lifetime member of STO, I officially became a financial liability as of April 2012 when compared to a subscriber.
Um, unless you believe there are a lot of them (to be fair, I'm one); and all the LTS folks are dumping their 500 ZP monthly stipend on the market every month (I haven't done that at all with mine except once last February 2012); the majority of ZP on the Dilithium Exchange has been bought with real money by someone at some point (even the monthly subbers as effectively, $5 of their monthly sub fee is essentially converted to 500 ZP off the top.)
Cryptic isn't really losing anything in the current market situation.
People who spend their monthly splendid make Cryptic/PWE zero ... zip ... nadda ... nothing. Their money is already accounted for and "gone" regardless if the markets go 1 Zen to 1 Dilithium or up to 1 Zen to 1 million Dilithium.
People (such as myself) who pull out their credit card to purchase Zen for Dilithium are a income source out of the dilithium exchange, our money simply stops if we don't see a value in spending the money anymore.
People who spend their monthly splendid make Cryptic/PWE zero ... zip ... nadda ... nothing. Their money is already accounted for and "gone" regardless if the markets go 1 Zen to 1 Dilithium or up to 1 Zen to 1 million Dilithium.
People (such as myself) who pull out their credit card to purchase Zen for Dilithium are a income source out of the dilithium exchange, our money simply stops if we don't see a value in spending the money anymore.
Jim
The real question is how many people will continue to buy Zen with real money at a price of 120?
At what point do you guys say it's too low and stop?
An equilibrium will be reached at some point, and when it does everyone will adapt.
I would suggest that Cryptic pay attention to the exchange rate and adjust future dilithium costs accordingly.
Hence I thread I create for them to add more dilthium dailies to the Fed side - easy to do and easy to impliment - Cryptic can basically copy and paste over to Fed from the KDF
each is 480 dilthium and the last 2 can be run while doing other things
The monthly stipend is representative of a $15.00 ongoing investment in STO. The only case where the money is accounted for and gone is if it is a stipend from a Lifetimer whose account has fully paid for itself.
The investment is when they purchased the subscription, anything else is just zero's and one's in Cryptic's server.
No real money is changing hands. No new money is being generated for Cryptic.
So, anybody else noticed that since season 7, the exchange rates have plummeted!? This is great for those who earn Dilithium in game and want to buy Zen as they are now able to get more Zen for their Dilithium. But for those who spend money on Zen and want to convert some of it to Dilithium, the current market rates are atrocious.
I find it a little strange that PWE/Cryptic haven't done anything to stop this, since it now actually promotes people not spending money on Zen and instead getting their Zen for in game Dilithium.
This post was merged, I started a new topic not noticing there was already one going. So yeah, it may sound like I missed the OP, because I did haha.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
Personally I enjoy the zen-dilith prices falling as I am a F2P player that works very hard at collecting lots of dilithium to sell so I can get some of the nice store items, so all you subscribers that have eveerything and get those free points that do nothing for you please keep buying my dilithium. After all once you bought all there is to buy from the store what good are free points doing you.:D
Hence I thread I create for them to add more dilthium dailies to the Fed side - easy to do and easy to impliment - Cryptic can basically copy and paste over to Fed from the KDF
each is 480 dilthium and the last 2 can be run while doing other things
Last time I used the exchange to put zen into dill it was 170 dill for one zen.
Now it's 122 dill for one zen but the prices off ships starbases and all stay the same ???
I don't know about you guys but this is a bit lame to do this to us :eek:
Drop the prices off ships and starbases or get the exchange going again this is no fun Devs !!!
Don't you guys think you sqeeze us enough allready ??? Jeeeezzzzzz:mad::mad::mad:
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
I find this (peeeeep) this is outrages even to buy Zen what good will that be I needed the Dill to get the starbase to tier 5 and the embasy and my personal gear but this is not going well at this raid you might buy a lot off zen but thats no good for a fleet ......:mad::mad::mad:
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Not a valid option now
it is more cost effective for us to make our own dilith
at 170 it was fair
now we have to pay nearly twice as much to provide for our fleets special projects and the number of those just DOUBLED
so until things even out or there is a zen option to get the projects done
selling zen is unrealistic
What good does 500zen a month do for a subscriber if they have nothing to spend it on?
greediness gets you nowhere. Either come off ur zen or farm the dilithium urself, ur choice. As for the hard working F2P people that grind lots of dlithium to sell we shall rejoice for the short lived time we can.
Play the market yall. Cost of Zen is lower. Buy the Zen and sit on it. When the rate moves the other direction, sell the Zen for profit. It may take time but, that is what an active player market does. Look at the world markets. They fluctuate all the time. Investors must adapt and play the market to their benefit.
What good does 500zen a month do for a subscriber if they have nothing to spend it on?
greediness gets you nowhere. Either com off ur zen or farm the dilithium urself, ur choice. As for the hard working F2P people that grind lots of dlithium to sell we shall rejoice for the short lived time we can.
To be a hard working f2p you need to not have a job, life, family. It's bad enough as a subscriber which by the way gets you squat-all that 500ZEN Stipend couldn't even buy an increase in Doff rosters.
Last time I used the exchange to put zen into dill it was 170 dill for one zen.
Now it's 122 dill for one zen but the prices off ships starbases and all stay the same ???
I don't know about you guys but this is a bit lame to do this to us :eek:
Drop the prices off ships and starbases or get the exchange going again this is no fun Devs !!!
Don't you guys think you sqeeze us enough allready ??? Jeeeezzzzzz:mad::mad::mad:
Lame to do this to us? You mean the other players? You do realize Cryptic does not set the exchange rate themselves?
Comments
First, let me say it doesn't matter if you talk of Zen or dilithium or EC or Lobi, they have NO real value. One may have spent money on zen, but try going to a store and buying food for your family or paying for college with zen. EVERYTHING in this game is a program backed by an executable file and some art work which, we're the server turned off and the game no more, you would have absolutely nothing to show for your time, effort or expenditures.
The real issue is time. The more hours one plays the more imaginary wealth they may obtain and the more influence they can have over imaginary MMO land. When we reduce the amount of awards obtained per time spent in game players with lots of time on their hands to play win, and those with job obligations, families, and the money to buy imaginary shinies lose. The Grind, as we call it, is time. It's valuable. Now we work at a game that was fun to get those shineys instead of just PLAYING the game. This is not the sort of conditions that make most want to sub and keeps spending real money in sprites and script. I personally want to come home after 11 hours, spend a couple hours in game, have some fun to take a break from reality, then go spend time with family after knowing my time in game had the result of fun with the side effect that I obtained some pixels and numbers to award my game experience. I want that time in game to be just as productive as possible, and want those awards to be the equivalent of those who don't spend a dime in game but have the shineys free.
There are more Dil sinks now and less being obtained per minute in game. This means less progression or dilution of progression in character development and projects. More time invested in activities that may be less fun. That is not the way to encourage the playerbase.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
My fleet is also small and just got the phase 2 upgrade started. It took a surprisingly long time to collect the marks needed..... But we did it eventually.
As for the lawn mower analogy.... I'd liken it to mowing your yard with a Weed Cutter
My character Tsin'xing
If you'd actually read this thread properly you'd realize I already posted about it being really about time. Using our concern for the time we have to irritate us in to spending in order to save time.
We're like thousands of hamsters in a wheel that is in full frontal view of a promised dream of an immersive star trek game... but no matter how much we run... we'll never get there
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Well, more changes inbound. We'll see if they help or not.
http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?p=765961
Not sure what's going to be implemented, though.
My blog! Zen|Dilithium tracking on Thursdays
http://samonmaui.blogspot.com
As a lifetime member of STO, I officially became a financial liability as of April 2012 when compared to a subscriber.
People who spend their monthly splendid make Cryptic/PWE zero ... zip ... nadda ... nothing. Their money is already accounted for and "gone" regardless if the markets go 1 Zen to 1 Dilithium or up to 1 Zen to 1 million Dilithium.
People (such as myself) who pull out their credit card to purchase Zen for Dilithium are a income source out of the dilithium exchange, our money simply stops if we don't see a value in spending the money anymore.
Jim
The real question is how many people will continue to buy Zen with real money at a price of 120?
At what point do you guys say it's too low and stop?
Hence I thread I create for them to add more dilthium dailies to the Fed side - easy to do and easy to impliment - Cryptic can basically copy and paste over to Fed from the KDF
each is 480 dilthium and the last 2 can be run while doing other things
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=465021
The investment is when they purchased the subscription, anything else is just zero's and one's in Cryptic's server.
No real money is changing hands. No new money is being generated for Cryptic.
I said stop at 155 dil per Zen, or about 40% of what the Dill to Zen conversion was in January when I joined the game.
Jim
I find it a little strange that PWE/Cryptic haven't done anything to stop this, since it now actually promotes people not spending money on Zen and instead getting their Zen for in game Dilithium.
This post was merged, I started a new topic not noticing there was already one going. So yeah, it may sound like I missed the OP, because I did haha.
No. What are you talking about
They may be legally required to recognize stipends as money under GAAP. Gift cards, including promotional ones, are supposed to be treated this way.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
More dailies for Fed? Sure.
But not in the way you suggested in your other thread. The overwhelming majority of posters in that thread disagreed with you - as do I.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Now it's 122 dill for one zen but the prices off ships starbases and all stay the same ???
I don't know about you guys but this is a bit lame to do this to us :eek:
Drop the prices off ships and starbases or get the exchange going again this is no fun Devs !!!
Don't you guys think you sqeeze us enough allready ??? Jeeeezzzzzz:mad::mad::mad:
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
simple as that
The prices are lowering because of the changes in S7 reducing the amount of dilithium being supplied to the exchange.
couldn't agree more with this one. Stop being stingy with all that zen you don't need and buy our dilithium.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
it is more cost effective for us to make our own dilith
at 170 it was fair
now we have to pay nearly twice as much to provide for our fleets special projects and the number of those just DOUBLED
so until things even out or there is a zen option to get the projects done
selling zen is unrealistic
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
What good does 500zen a month do for a subscriber if they have nothing to spend it on?
greediness gets you nowhere. Either come off ur zen or farm the dilithium urself, ur choice. As for the hard working F2P people that grind lots of dlithium to sell we shall rejoice for the short lived time we can.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
To be a hard working f2p you need to not have a job, life, family. It's bad enough as a subscriber which by the way gets you squat-all that 500ZEN Stipend couldn't even buy an increase in Doff rosters.
Thankyou and goodnight.
(ex-f2p)
#2311#2700#2316#2500
But FTP people or subscribers does not matter
it now costs nearly 1600 zen PER project in dilith
its better for us not to trade zen and to wait for the ferengi to die off
Lame to do this to us? You mean the other players? You do realize Cryptic does not set the exchange rate themselves?