OK, ok... if your not going to give me a Battle Cloak, can I please have a Ablative Generator please
I actually would not be totally against this idea though I would expect gamewide Cloaking to go BattleCloak with no handicaps and further remove any existing handicaps from ships for Universal SLots as well.
Having every fed vessel be able go Immune almost at will and still spam Mines and Torps with ease would basically make them the mirror reflection of a KDF B'rel somewhat.
This may be why both abilities are just on a single class of ship respectively.
Then the Cruisers needs to make an escape plan for such an event while in combat.
Many options exist to facilitate a quick escape so cloaking is not needed.
As well Cruisers are not near as nimble as escorts for a reason. I never once in any canon considered media saw any cruiser move with dogfight capable alacrity equal to an escort.
.
I agree but in canon Fed criusers are not so nible as Klink ones are and have less shielding.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
So, that bearded troll is still going strong on this in a Federation forum, not a Klingon forum...
You don't know much about me don't you well there a lots of real Trek Gamers who do and they know what race I fly for and what fleet I was in.I doubt you ever heard of the Elite Federation Force have you goes back to 1999 on MPlayer.
I play Federation so that is why.
btw this is off topic.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
I don't think it's possible to "prove" anything without a written statement by someone within the Star Trek universe via a special information pipeline into that universe.
But what we can to is look at examples (at least when it comes to maneuverability)
I'll try to do that with one I can think of right now.
The Vor'cha and Excelsior are roughly the same size and, given what's written in various soft-canon books, roughly the same mass.
In "Way of the Warrior", the Defiant had a Vor'cha at her rear and was unable to outmaneuver it.
While it's true the Defiant had to stay close to Dukhat's ship, the only restrictions we ever heard of during transport were
-shields down
-range
-not a warp unless both ships are at same speed
there was never any mentioning of a need to hold the ship still so the need to transport people off the ship should not have hampered the Defiant's maneuvers.
In "Paradise Lost" the Defiant literally flew circles around the Lakota.
So we have two example and we have a common baseline for comparison:
the Defiant
And in this comparison two ships of similar size and mass have very different maneurability compared to the exact same ship.
p.s. I know you didn't direct this at me, but I hope you don't mind my answer
I would expect gamewide Cloaking to go BattleCloak with no handicaps
As in bumping up all cloaks a tier up? That's something I'd be looking forward to, cloaking in this game is equivalent to a stronger Mask Energy Signature, not exactly much good.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Nope, just lots and lots of poorly repressed anger that folks from "That side of the trax" might have strong opinions on a certain subject, and the temerity not to stay in their ghetto when voicing said opinions.
Y'know, since we're not 'Polite company".
I know, disagreeing is already a crime, playing KDF is an even worse crime etc.
I've seen it all, including a guy who said we shouldn't have gotten the Ka'tanco (back when we had lower tiers) because we killed Kirk's son (and meant it).
But here's the thing people around here utterly fail to explain to me.
In canon Trek the Defiant had a battlecloak.
In canon Trek the K't'inga had a battlecloak.
In canon Trek the BoP had a battlecloak.
The devs have said time and again that the reason the BoP is the only ship in STO with a battlecloak is due to game mechanics and to give it something unique.
So why do the players scream for a battlecloak for the Defiant (and some even for the Dreadnought cruiser) since "it's canon" but the Klingon battlecruisers shouldn't get it...because it's also canon they should have it.
Probably because it's a Klingon ship type and that's a crime too.
I don't think it's possible to "prove" anything without a written statement by someone within the Star Trek universe via a special information pipeline into that universe.
But what we can to is look at examples (at least when it comes to maneuverability)
I'll try to do that with one I can think of right now.
The Vor'cha and Excelsior are roughly the same size and, given what's written in various soft-canon books, roughly the same mass.
In "Way of the Warrior", the Defiant had a Vor'cha at her rear and was unable to outmaneuver it.
While it's true the Defiant had to stay close to Dukhat's ship, the only restrictions we ever heard of during transport were
-shields down
-range
-not a warp unless both ships are at same speed
there was never any mentioning of a need to hold the ship still so the need to transport people off the ship should not have hampered the Defiant's maneuvers.
In "Paradise Lost" the Defiant literally flew circles around the Lakota.
So we have two example and we have a common baseline for comparison:
the Defiant
And in this comparison two ships of similar size and mass have very different maneurability compared to the exact same ship.
p.s. I know you didn't direct this at me, but I hope you don't mind my answer
There a plenty of cannon episodes that show ships move really well or they don't. The galaxy class moves quicker on screen than in the show. The Negh'var moves slower in the shows but faster in game.
The Defiant vs Vorcha, the defiant didnt seem to move as fast as it should be able to, plus it had to keep within transporter range of the Cardasian ship.
Asw for the Lakota, there was nothing holding the defiant back.
But my argument was simple question to the person i quoted. Where is the evidence that KDF ships have better shields and more nimble?
There a plenty of cannon episodes that show ships move really well or they don't. The galaxy class moves quicker on screen than in the show. The Negh'var moves slower in the shows but faster in game.
Show...screen, can you please specify what means what because you leave me guessing here.
The Defiant vs Vorcha, the defiant didnt seem to move as fast as it should be able to, plus it had to keep within transporter range of the Cardasian ship.
Asw for the Lakota, there was nothing holding the defiant back.
The transporters have a range of 40,000 kilometers (TNGTM) so as I already mentioned before this is not an argument that makes sense.
I agree but in canon Fed criusers are not so nible as Klink ones are and have less shielding.
An escape plan usually has little to do with the vessels actaul speed rating as the plan usaully involves a EngBatt+EVM+change to full engine power or Dueterium +EVM+full change to engine power.
Many make a keybind for and spam the key when needed.
I also have read that canonically speaking, Star Fleet had better shielding and warp drives while the Klingons had more armor and better impulse drives.
As in bumping up all cloaks a tier up? That's something I'd be looking forward to, cloaking in this game is equivalent to a stronger Mask Energy Signature, not exactly much good.
It was a sarcastic response to the UFP getting widespread Ablative armor on all vessels as an option.
I would expect the KDF/RSE cloaking to be better than the federation by a small margin.
Say the KDF keep battle cloaking on the BoPs, get the ability to cloak in combat with regular claokinga s well but have a longer CD to do so.
The Feds could cloak in combat as well, I guess, though they would have a slightly higher CD then are regular cloakers.
But honestly its all a sarcasm as I expect teh Devs to no more change claoking than they will give Ablative console a true universal setting.
hey hey I have an idea. Give the Feds there freaking battle cloak on the Dreadnought and Defiant. just give battle cloak to the KDF Cruisers and Raptors and keep them on the BoPs :D:P:cool: ya'll wanna talk about canon? Every KDF ship that could cloak had battle cloak... last night a fleet member and I were doing pvp in defiants... did i use the cloak? yes but the thing is the cloak wasn't really needed.
The Emperor isn't please with Cryptic apparent lack of progress for the Empire. Lord Vader is on his way
hey hey I have an idea. Give the Feds there freaking battle cloak on the Dreadnought and Defiant. just give battle cloak to the KDF Cruisers and Raptors and keep them on the BoPs :D:P:cool: ya'll wanna talk about canon? Every KDF ship that could cloak had battle cloak... last night a fleet member and I were doing pvp in defiants... did i use the cloak? yes but the thing is the cloak wasn't really needed.
Honestly, the cloaks have far too much effect in the game. It should be used more for positioning for initial engagements, not to be used every time the ship goes out of red alert (except for the battle cloak on the B.O.P. only).
I don't think you read any of the posts here. Level the playing field? Are you frakkin TRIBBLE? What part about 5 tac consoles, great turn, and good hull and defensive abilities is not computing? If you give it a battlecloak, that will COMPLETELY break the Defiant.
I love the ship, but I want her to be fair, not broken.
i agree in my opinion Fleet Defiant with battlecloak= Bug ship 2.0 in terms of OPness
the base cloak as it is seems pretty useless over all minus the damage buff and even then it's not like you can just cloak during combat to refresh that. Maybe if they upped the damage you take while cloaked it would seem less OP? For me, it's just kind of pointless since i don't like to run away from the fight any time i want to get a damage buff so i've taken out the console all together, but i would gladly add it back in if i could cloak when ever i wanted to instead of only when i never really need it.
I still think it would work better to make it canon and allow those who have it able to use it, and just update the advanced versions from there. It's like the MVAE having to stop to separate, that's not how it worked on screen and i really don't see who it would hurt to fix it in game.
the base cloak as it is seems pretty useless over all minus the damage buff and even then it's not like you can just cloak during combat to refresh that. Maybe if they upped the damage you take while cloaked it would seem less OP? For me, it's just kind of pointless since i don't like to run away from the fight any time i want to get a damage buff so i've taken out the console all together, but i would gladly add it back in if i could cloak when ever i wanted to instead of only when i never really need it.
I still think it would work better to make it canon and allow those who have it able to use it, and just update the advanced versions from there. It's like the MVAE having to stop to separate, that's not how it worked on screen and i really don't see who it would hurt to fix it in game.
You do take more damage while cloaked, in the sense that your shields are down. This is why it's usually suicide to cloak while under fire, unless you've got polarize hull, Brace for Impact and maybe 1 other good hull buff in place to keep you from getting eviscerated. The only other exception is when the attacking feddie is so inept that his weapons barely do damage.
The regular battlecloak doesn't allow for a lot of defensive/healing abilities to be used while cloaked, as well. . .one of the advantages of using the B'rel retro's enhanced battlecloak.
I cloak for two general reasons: To temporarily exit the battle and give my abilities time to recharge, and to boost an alpha strike. When I 'run' from a fight, it's usually with the intention of re-entering it at my own choosing. That's a luxury the battlecloak gives you. . .and the BoPs need it. They're sub-par in almost all stat categories, and the battlecloak acts as an equalizer to keep them relevant. Otherwise, they might as well just be raptors with a few universal boffslots.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
You do take more damage while cloaked, in the sense that your shields are down. This is why it's usually suicide to cloak while under fire, unless you've got polarize hull, Brace for Impact and maybe 1 other good hull buff in place to keep you from getting eviscerated. The only other exception is when the attacking feddie is so inept that his weapons barely do damage.
Are you talking about Battle Cloak or regular cloak?
Ships under regular cloak do not take direct hull damage. As soon as it goes to Red Alert, the shields are up instantly. Which means, it's ups before the weapon fire even comes close to the hull.
In planetside 2, the infiltrator has a cloaking device but when activated it starts a timer then runs out soon after, followed by a cool down period before it can be used again.
This is an idea.
Or you could get the adapted honour guard 3 part set and use its ABC/mask energy signature power.
Cryptic, I'll make you a deal. Move the cloak back to "built-in ability" instead of a console, just for the Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit and without removing any console space, and I'll stop bothering you about battle cloaks.
Cryptic, I'll make you a deal. Move the cloak back to "built-in ability" instead of a console, just for the Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit and without removing any console space, and I'll stop bothering you about battle cloaks.
I'm sorry, 1) what do you mean back to? It's always been a console 2.) why?
The Defiant is already a top escort. Any additional bonus to it it would make it completely unbalanced in all regards.
*EDIT, I do have a suspicion what the person in question will answer, let's see if I'm right*
Efforting this I as we speak. Compiling sources for what its worth as any evidence will most likely dismissed as non-canon if its not from onscreen, on TV or listed in Memory Alpha ior generally suits the fan notion of how things are.
Comments
I actually would not be totally against this idea though I would expect gamewide Cloaking to go BattleCloak with no handicaps and further remove any existing handicaps from ships for Universal SLots as well.
Having every fed vessel be able go Immune almost at will and still spam Mines and Torps with ease would basically make them the mirror reflection of a KDF B'rel somewhat.
This may be why both abilities are just on a single class of ship respectively.
R.I.P
Exageration.
Maybe so. but pretty sure they would lose most of the people who still pay for the game
I agree but in canon Fed criusers are not so nible as Klink ones are and have less shielding.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
THIS GAME IS NOT CANON.
i3-2100 3.10GHz
8GB Kingston HyperX Fury Blue 1333Mhz DDR3 RAM CL9
ASUS DirectCU II GTX 660 OC 2GB GDDR5
You don't know much about me don't you well there a lots of real Trek Gamers who do and they know what race I fly for and what fleet I was in.I doubt you ever heard of the Elite Federation Force have you goes back to 1999 on MPlayer.
I play Federation so that is why.
btw this is off topic.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Can you prove this?
I don't think it's possible to "prove" anything without a written statement by someone within the Star Trek universe via a special information pipeline into that universe.
But what we can to is look at examples (at least when it comes to maneuverability)
I'll try to do that with one I can think of right now.
The Vor'cha and Excelsior are roughly the same size and, given what's written in various soft-canon books, roughly the same mass.
In "Way of the Warrior", the Defiant had a Vor'cha at her rear and was unable to outmaneuver it.
While it's true the Defiant had to stay close to Dukhat's ship, the only restrictions we ever heard of during transport were
-shields down
-range
-not a warp unless both ships are at same speed
there was never any mentioning of a need to hold the ship still so the need to transport people off the ship should not have hampered the Defiant's maneuvers.
In "Paradise Lost" the Defiant literally flew circles around the Lakota.
So we have two example and we have a common baseline for comparison:
the Defiant
And in this comparison two ships of similar size and mass have very different maneurability compared to the exact same ship.
p.s. I know you didn't direct this at me, but I hope you don't mind my answer
I presume this means people with a beared avatar are only permitted to post in Klingon forums.
As in bumping up all cloaks a tier up? That's something I'd be looking forward to, cloaking in this game is equivalent to a stronger Mask Energy Signature, not exactly much good.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I know, disagreeing is already a crime, playing KDF is an even worse crime etc.
I've seen it all, including a guy who said we shouldn't have gotten the Ka'tanco (back when we had lower tiers) because we killed Kirk's son (and meant it).
But here's the thing people around here utterly fail to explain to me.
In canon Trek the Defiant had a battlecloak.
In canon Trek the K't'inga had a battlecloak.
In canon Trek the BoP had a battlecloak.
The devs have said time and again that the reason the BoP is the only ship in STO with a battlecloak is due to game mechanics and to give it something unique.
So why do the players scream for a battlecloak for the Defiant (and some even for the Dreadnought cruiser) since "it's canon" but the Klingon battlecruisers shouldn't get it...because it's also canon they should have it.
Probably because it's a Klingon ship type and that's a crime too.
There a plenty of cannon episodes that show ships move really well or they don't. The galaxy class moves quicker on screen than in the show. The Negh'var moves slower in the shows but faster in game.
The Defiant vs Vorcha, the defiant didnt seem to move as fast as it should be able to, plus it had to keep within transporter range of the Cardasian ship.
Asw for the Lakota, there was nothing holding the defiant back.
But my argument was simple question to the person i quoted. Where is the evidence that KDF ships have better shields and more nimble?
Show...screen, can you please specify what means what because you leave me guessing here.
The transporters have a range of 40,000 kilometers (TNGTM) so as I already mentioned before this is not an argument that makes sense.
Okay, fine.
*EDIT, I do have a suspicion what the person in question will answer, let's see if I'm right*
An escape plan usually has little to do with the vessels actaul speed rating as the plan usaully involves a EngBatt+EVM+change to full engine power or Dueterium +EVM+full change to engine power.
Many make a keybind for and spam the key when needed.
I also have read that canonically speaking, Star Fleet had better shielding and warp drives while the Klingons had more armor and better impulse drives.
R.I.P
such a keen observant.
R.I.P
It was a sarcastic response to the UFP getting widespread Ablative armor on all vessels as an option.
I would expect the KDF/RSE cloaking to be better than the federation by a small margin.
Say the KDF keep battle cloaking on the BoPs, get the ability to cloak in combat with regular claokinga s well but have a longer CD to do so.
The Feds could cloak in combat as well, I guess, though they would have a slightly higher CD then are regular cloakers.
But honestly its all a sarcasm as I expect teh Devs to no more change claoking than they will give Ablative console a true universal setting.
R.I.P
Honestly, the cloaks have far too much effect in the game. It should be used more for positioning for initial engagements, not to be used every time the ship goes out of red alert (except for the battle cloak on the B.O.P. only).
It is what someone on another Trek board said to me as he has read everything to do about Trek.
Don't you think I jknow something about this as STG is way Older than this board and we just don't talk about gaming anything Star Trek.
oh come on now.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
i agree in my opinion Fleet Defiant with battlecloak= Bug ship 2.0 in terms of OPness
I still think it would work better to make it canon and allow those who have it able to use it, and just update the advanced versions from there. It's like the MVAE having to stop to separate, that's not how it worked on screen and i really don't see who it would hurt to fix it in game.
You do take more damage while cloaked, in the sense that your shields are down. This is why it's usually suicide to cloak while under fire, unless you've got polarize hull, Brace for Impact and maybe 1 other good hull buff in place to keep you from getting eviscerated. The only other exception is when the attacking feddie is so inept that his weapons barely do damage.
The regular battlecloak doesn't allow for a lot of defensive/healing abilities to be used while cloaked, as well. . .one of the advantages of using the B'rel retro's enhanced battlecloak.
I cloak for two general reasons: To temporarily exit the battle and give my abilities time to recharge, and to boost an alpha strike. When I 'run' from a fight, it's usually with the intention of re-entering it at my own choosing. That's a luxury the battlecloak gives you. . .and the BoPs need it. They're sub-par in almost all stat categories, and the battlecloak acts as an equalizer to keep them relevant. Otherwise, they might as well just be raptors with a few universal boffslots.
Ships under regular cloak do not take direct hull damage. As soon as it goes to Red Alert, the shields are up instantly. Which means, it's ups before the weapon fire even comes close to the hull.
That is one advantage to the regular cloak.
This is an idea.
Or you could get the adapted honour guard 3 part set and use its ABC/mask energy signature power.
/thread
its frankly sub standard and a knock off
why should it even come close to a proper cloak
I'm sorry, 1) what do you mean back to? It's always been a console 2.) why?
The Defiant is already a top escort. Any additional bonus to it it would make it completely unbalanced in all regards.
Efforting this I as we speak. Compiling sources for what its worth as any evidence will most likely dismissed as non-canon if its not from onscreen, on TV or listed in Memory Alpha ior generally suits the fan notion of how things are.
R.I.P
Ah, yeah, watch these videos for an idea of how to pilot one:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAAgaD-zbotq2By_2-8qqIg/videos?view=0
^ On topic.