what happens when we get a Romulan faction and every Romulan ship can Cloak?
The feds continue to ask for widespread cloaking using the RSE now as the excuse of why they need it.
KDF fans do nothing as we understand why the feds do not have widespread cloaking, that such an advantage as claoking is very situational in combat and it is not OP, though it can be annoying.
Frankly , I look forward to the RSE and thier better cloaking.
I read the thread, and saw quite a few people say that there are several fed ships that already have a cloak. Uh, NOT TRUE. Only the Defiant has one I believe, even though there are 4 of them...The regular, the refit, the retrofit and the sao paulo. Oh wait, the fleet one too. I am sure that there are oh i dunno 50 or so ships on fed side that can't equip a cloak. And NONE of them are battle cloaks. So we are at a distinct disadvantage.
I read the thread, and saw quite a few people say that there are several fed ships that already have a cloak. Uh, NOT TRUE. Only the Defiant has one I believe, even though there are 4 of them...The regular, the refit, the retrofit and the sao paulo. Oh wait, the fleet one too. I am sure that there are oh i dunno 50 or so ships on fed side that can't equip a cloak. And NONE of them are battle cloaks. So we are at a distinct disadvantage.
They might also be referring to the Federation Dreadnought Cruiser.
Besides, considering how fragile the BOPs are, it hardly qualifies as distinct disadvantage.
By that same argument the KDF can argue that they are at a distinct disadvantage in comparison to:
Fl Defiant Hull: 33,000 vs. Hegh'ta 24,000
Fl. Defiant Shield: 5,173 vs. Hegh'ta 3,980
Tac. Consoles: 5-tac vs Hegh'ta 3-tac
All consoles: 10 consoles vs. Hegh'ta 9 consoles
Weapons: 4x 3x weapons vs Hegh'ta 4x 2x weapons
Fl. Defiant turn rate: 17 vs Hegh'ta 21 turn)
I'm surprised that the Feds haven't being screaming blue murder for a better turn rate.... Oh wait! They have.
I don't even use cloak on my fleet defiant because I tend to have far better consoles loaded instead, and swap them with others so I can keep chaining univ consoles.
Never been a big fan of the standard cloak.
Battle-cloak however, I love on my Hegh'ta, and it's part of WHY I fly a Bird of Prey exclusively. I have 1 less BOFF slot, 1 less tactical console and 1 less aft weapon. The idea of having a fleet defiant with a battlecloak is kind of ludicrous to me because it already leaves my Hegh'ta in the dust on so many levels.
The exhiliration of using battlecloak while tanking a tac cube in ISE is something I just don't feel when flying my fleet defiant. You need precise timing or you're going to be in trouble because you don't have a hefty hull.
Putting a battlecloak on the Defiant just sort of trivializes that... much like all the klingon consoles being trivialized because they're ending up in lockboxes now. I'm finding myself playing my Klingon less and less now days, and I can only imagine the massive exodus that's going to happen once (if) Romulans are added to the game.
Might as well put a cloak on the jem'hadar bug ship to be honest and put the final nail in the coffin on Birds of Prey. They're re-adding them soon, so they'll be pretty common.
The only thing comparable to the Defiant class ship is the Raptor class ships... Birds-of-Prey are raiders apparently, so they get the battle cloaks.
So you can't compare the Defiant to a Bird-of-Prey.
Thats a bit of a double standard is it not. The Defiant cannot be compared to the BOP, buts its convenient to say that the Defiant needs the BOP battle cloak?
Thats a bit of a double standard is it not. The Defiant cannot be compared to the BOP, buts its convenient to say that the Defiant needs the BOP battle cloak?
i myself use a defiant R and i think she is fine the way she is Defiant R's do not need a battle cloak the cloak they have is good enough it is meant to be a fed equivilant to the KDF raptor and as the guy i am quoting said BOB's are in a class of their own they have stuff they can only do giving the Defiant a battle cloak will make them OP for sure or make them blow up more often.
Keeping to Canon, the Defiant SHOULD have a battle cloak. Keeping to the balance of the game, I really don't see a problem with giving the very rare Fleet Defiant the same.
We all have access to the Jem'Hadar set, we can all disable a cloak... Cmon people, for the PvE areas especially, a Battle Cloak is hardly a horrific thing. I say keep the cloak limited to the C-Store ship, but enable it as a Battle Cloak for the Fleet version of the same.
The Dreadnought, yea, I agree with it not having a Battle Cloak.
To put it to Canon Response, the Treaty of Algeron was with the now defunct Romulan Government. As such I think it is high time we research ways to better use our existing cloaked vessels and perhaps expand the capability to other ships.
Personally I think the Defiant AND the Raptor should have Battlecloak. The only cloaking vessels that should not have them are the Tankier ships (cruisers, BC's), that would be come unkillable with them.
I think the discussion can freely be ended, as Borticus has announced that not only will the KHG 3-piece become more of an AOE EBC+ with the stealth of a MES2 (low stealth is its weakness if you ask me), but they will be making the STF sets cross-faction by introducing 'Adapted' versions of the other faction's set, with the same stats but different cosmetics.
Pretty cool, right?
And before somebody mistakes my post for sarcasm, I really AM looking forward to those changes, especially since my KDF alt is only a deflector away from KHG Mk XII, not to mention the MACO set suits my STF builds best.
Speaking of which, when comparing secondary attacks, which is better? KHG or standard pulsewave? What range does the grenade launcher even have?
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
With the new 1000 day Vet ships the Klingons got now an escort with a battle cloak, I think it is time that also the Defiant get's a battle cloak. Otherwise the Federation is completly loosing out against the Klingons, that can mount on every ship Cannons, and 95% of their ships have a cloak, battle cloak or advanced battle cloak.
Sure, just as soon as Klingons get an escort w/ carrier pets. Go ahead and throw 5 tac consoles on there while we're at it, and you got a deal.
Quit whining! Preserve Klingon identity! No Fed battle cloaks at all, please! It is almost a painful a plea as those asking for a playable Jupiter-class battleship.
Quit whining! Preserve Klingon identity! No Fed battle cloaks at all, please! It is almost a painful a plea as those asking for a playable Jupiter-class battleship.
Anyway, my two cents.
My 2cents:
The Federation doesn't need a Battle Cloak, we just don't.
Also we do Need that playable Jupiter and I resent your statement good sir or Madam.:D
The vet ship isn't an escort, it's a Bird of Prey. Learn the difference.
Is there a difference? Yes.
Do I know what it is? Yes... do you?
The Klingon escort is a Raptor, not a Bird of Prey. Bird of Prey vessels have universal boff stations and a sizable energy bonus for weapons. Birds of Prey also make escorts look durable. Also, despite the lower shield output than anything else in the game, and certainly lower than science vessels, birds of prey are the closest thing you have to a science vessel on KDF without touching the overpriced zen ships.
Keeping to Canon, the Defiant SHOULD have a battle cloak. Keeping to the balance of the game, I really don't see a problem with giving the very rare Fleet Defiant the same.
We all have access to the Jem'Hadar set, we can all disable a cloak... Cmon people, for the PvE areas especially, a Battle Cloak is hardly a horrific thing. I say keep the cloak limited to the C-Store ship, but enable it as a Battle Cloak for the Fleet version of the same.
The Dreadnought, yea, I agree with it not having a Battle Cloak.
To put it to Canon Response, the Treaty of Algeron was with the now defunct Romulan Government. As such I think it is high time we research ways to better use our existing cloaked vessels and perhaps expand the capability to other ships.
If you cannot see the problem of given a 5-tac console ship, one of the best escorts in the game a battle cloak, then you have a lot to learn about balance.
Just look at what the BOP has because of that cloak.
Are you prepared to downgrade the weapon compliment, hull, shields, and TAC consoles for the battle-cloak.
Yes, I didn't think so.
Also, give the Fl. Defiant the battlecloak would negate having any other ship in the game. What would you need cruisers for? Or Science ships? Think about what I have just said carefully. Very, very carefully.
You are asking for a ship that has 120% offensive capability + 100% defensive capability for any vessel of its class + the ability to simply cloak when things get tough, without sacrificing anything. Every single KDF ship with the battle cloak sacrifices something to do that.
When someone starts using "what's cannon" or "what would be good for PvE", in my experience, I see them caring little for balance.
Keeping to Canon, the Defiant SHOULD have a battle cloak. Keeping to the balance of the game, I really don't see a problem with giving the very rare Fleet Defiant the same.
We all have access to the Jem'Hadar set, we can all disable a cloak... Cmon people, for the PvE areas especially, a Battle Cloak is hardly a horrific thing. I say keep the cloak limited to the C-Store ship, but enable it as a Battle Cloak for the Fleet version of the same.
The Dreadnought, yea, I agree with it not having a Battle Cloak.
To put it to Canon Response, the Treaty of Algeron was with the now defunct Romulan Government. As such I think it is high time we research ways to better use our existing cloaked vessels and perhaps expand the capability to other ships.
Or is this a case of only selectively using canon where it is convenient for the Federation side?
The reason the Defiant does not have a BC is not canon, it's called game mechanics.
There is a reason I wrote "battlecloaks for everyone" earlier in this thread.
Because that's what we'll end up with when we invoke canon for this.
And as far as STO's own storyline goes keep this in mind:
The Path to 2409: 2395
After the revelation that Starfleet was testing a cloaking device, tensions between the Federation, Romulans and Klingons were at their highest point since the destruction of the Romulan homeworld in 2387. After a full inquiry, six members of Starfleet Security were court-martialed.
It took three months for Federation President Aennik Okeg to convince the Romulans and the Klingons to send representatives to a summit to discuss the situation. When the meeting finally began, Okeg made the Federation's position clear. He apologized for the experiments into cloaking technology, and said that he had signed an executive order banning all research into or creation of Federation cloaking technology.
"The narrow legal view may be that the Treaty of Algeron ended when Romulus was destroyed," Okeg said. "The Romulan Star Empire we knew is gone, and you are a new people. What has not changed is the Federation's commitment to peace."
In other terms: the Federation President actually disagrees with you.
In other terms: the Federation President actually disagrees with you.[/QUOTE]
LOL!!!!!!.......but seriously, I can't think of too many ships that actually had a battle cloak in the canon universe. The Romulan ship in the last next generationmovie, the scitar I think it was called, the future Enterprise in the last episode of the next generation didn't have it, the klingon ship in star trek 6 (also came with a captian quoting shakespear) and thats all I can come up with. I love the Defiant class ship. My 2 main toons both fly them and while I'm working my way up to have a fleet where I can build fleet Defiants. The improvements to the ship and the 5th tactical console make it a great ship. I rarely use my cloak because I would rather use more consoles to either boost my stats or boost my defence. I'm still debating what 5th console to place, either a phaser or quantum boost. In place of a battle cloak if anything else were added for suposed ballance I would say the most fitting possibilities would either be a dual quantum torp launcher, or a 360 degree fire arc single phaser array. I would rather see them be items to get in game...not the c-store, or lobi store, but in general I don't think the Defiant class ship needs anything more than what they have from the introduction of the fleet ship. If there was anything I would change at all I would offer a fleet version of the Sao Palo class, as I thought it had a better bridge officer lay out for survivability.
I fail to see an issue here but maybe that's because I'm a sci capt with 6 points in sensors. Befor you ask I spend a lot of time in kar'ret that's why. So let the klings keep battle cloak. Guess what if you think it's unfair that they have battle cloak or its oped then play a kling or a sci toon. Sci toons have this cool thing called sensor scan then we can attack them while they are cloaked and there shields are down. Yeah keep battle cloak on the klings it's not that great
-"There is no such thing as an I win button!""Um, Sir. Whats this button that says (I win) for then?"
Thats a bit of a double standard is it not. The Defiant cannot be compared to the BOP, buts its convenient to say that the Defiant needs the BOP battle cloak?
I'm not the one who's trying to get a Battle Cloak for the Defiant... I really don't care which way it goes, I don't use it much anyways.
Fact still stands, Escorts for Federation are comparable to the Raptors for the Klingon Defense Force.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
i3-2100 3.10GHz
8GB Kingston HyperX Fury Blue 1333Mhz DDR3 RAM CL9
ASUS DirectCU II GTX 660 OC 2GB GDDR5
yeah just face it team, battle cloaks are the domain of the klingon's alone. the day they make them a fed thing, will be the day I just uninstall and say...
Comments
Sorry, science vessels are a federation unique ship class :P
R.I.P
:mad:
The feds continue to ask for widespread cloaking using the RSE now as the excuse of why they need it.
KDF fans do nothing as we understand why the feds do not have widespread cloaking, that such an advantage as claoking is very situational in combat and it is not OP, though it can be annoying.
Frankly , I look forward to the RSE and thier better cloaking.
R.I.P
They might also be referring to the Federation Dreadnought Cruiser.
Besides, considering how fragile the BOPs are, it hardly qualifies as distinct disadvantage.
By that same argument the KDF can argue that they are at a distinct disadvantage in comparison to:
Fl Defiant Hull: 33,000 vs. Hegh'ta 24,000
Fl. Defiant Shield: 5,173 vs. Hegh'ta 3,980
Tac. Consoles: 5-tac vs Hegh'ta 3-tac
All consoles: 10 consoles vs. Hegh'ta 9 consoles
Weapons: 4x 3x weapons vs Hegh'ta 4x 2x weapons
Fl. Defiant turn rate: 17 vs Hegh'ta 21 turn)
I'm surprised that the Feds haven't being screaming blue murder for a better turn rate.... Oh wait! They have.
So you can't compare the Defiant to a Bird-of-Prey.
i3-2100 3.10GHz
8GB Kingston HyperX Fury Blue 1333Mhz DDR3 RAM CL9
ASUS DirectCU II GTX 660 OC 2GB GDDR5
Never been a big fan of the standard cloak.
Battle-cloak however, I love on my Hegh'ta, and it's part of WHY I fly a Bird of Prey exclusively. I have 1 less BOFF slot, 1 less tactical console and 1 less aft weapon. The idea of having a fleet defiant with a battlecloak is kind of ludicrous to me because it already leaves my Hegh'ta in the dust on so many levels.
The exhiliration of using battlecloak while tanking a tac cube in ISE is something I just don't feel when flying my fleet defiant. You need precise timing or you're going to be in trouble because you don't have a hefty hull.
Putting a battlecloak on the Defiant just sort of trivializes that... much like all the klingon consoles being trivialized because they're ending up in lockboxes now. I'm finding myself playing my Klingon less and less now days, and I can only imagine the massive exodus that's going to happen once (if) Romulans are added to the game.
Might as well put a cloak on the jem'hadar bug ship to be honest and put the final nail in the coffin on Birds of Prey. They're re-adding them soon, so they'll be pretty common.
Thats a bit of a double standard is it not. The Defiant cannot be compared to the BOP, buts its convenient to say that the Defiant needs the BOP battle cloak?
i myself use a defiant R and i think she is fine the way she is Defiant R's do not need a battle cloak the cloak they have is good enough it is meant to be a fed equivilant to the KDF raptor and as the guy i am quoting said BOB's are in a class of their own they have stuff they can only do giving the Defiant a battle cloak will make them OP for sure or make them blow up more often.
We all have access to the Jem'Hadar set, we can all disable a cloak... Cmon people, for the PvE areas especially, a Battle Cloak is hardly a horrific thing. I say keep the cloak limited to the C-Store ship, but enable it as a Battle Cloak for the Fleet version of the same.
The Dreadnought, yea, I agree with it not having a Battle Cloak.
To put it to Canon Response, the Treaty of Algeron was with the now defunct Romulan Government. As such I think it is high time we research ways to better use our existing cloaked vessels and perhaps expand the capability to other ships.
Pretty cool, right?
And before somebody mistakes my post for sarcasm, I really AM looking forward to those changes, especially since my KDF alt is only a deflector away from KHG Mk XII, not to mention the MACO set suits my STF builds best.
Speaking of which, when comparing secondary attacks, which is better? KHG or standard pulsewave? What range does the grenade launcher even have?
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Sure, just as soon as Klingons get an escort w/ carrier pets. Go ahead and throw 5 tac consoles on there while we're at it, and you got a deal.
Three words:
Photonic. DIsplacement. Console.
Quit whining! Preserve Klingon identity! No Fed battle cloaks at all, please! It is almost a painful a plea as those asking for a playable Jupiter-class battleship.
Anyway, my two cents.
My 2cents:
The Federation doesn't need a Battle Cloak, we just don't.
Also we do Need that playable Jupiter and I resent your statement good sir or Madam.:D
Founder and Current CO of Gamma Strike Force
Player since December 2009
Is there a difference? Yes.
Do I know what it is? Yes... do you?
The Klingon escort is a Raptor, not a Bird of Prey. Bird of Prey vessels have universal boff stations and a sizable energy bonus for weapons. Birds of Prey also make escorts look durable. Also, despite the lower shield output than anything else in the game, and certainly lower than science vessels, birds of prey are the closest thing you have to a science vessel on KDF without touching the overpriced zen ships.
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → Ⓑ Ⓐ
If you cannot see the problem of given a 5-tac console ship, one of the best escorts in the game a battle cloak, then you have a lot to learn about balance.
Just look at what the BOP has because of that cloak.
Are you prepared to downgrade the weapon compliment, hull, shields, and TAC consoles for the battle-cloak.
Yes, I didn't think so.
Also, give the Fl. Defiant the battlecloak would negate having any other ship in the game. What would you need cruisers for? Or Science ships? Think about what I have just said carefully. Very, very carefully.
You are asking for a ship that has 120% offensive capability + 100% defensive capability for any vessel of its class + the ability to simply cloak when things get tough, without sacrificing anything. Every single KDF ship with the battle cloak sacrifices something to do that.
When someone starts using "what's cannon" or "what would be good for PvE", in my experience, I see them caring little for balance.
Keeping it canon means:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmnoN6lCtwg
Klingon cruisers should have battlecloak as well.
Or is this a case of only selectively using canon where it is convenient for the Federation side?
The reason the Defiant does not have a BC is not canon, it's called game mechanics.
There is a reason I wrote "battlecloaks for everyone" earlier in this thread.
Because that's what we'll end up with when we invoke canon for this.
And as far as STO's own storyline goes keep this in mind:
The Path to 2409: 2395
After the revelation that Starfleet was testing a cloaking device, tensions between the Federation, Romulans and Klingons were at their highest point since the destruction of the Romulan homeworld in 2387. After a full inquiry, six members of Starfleet Security were court-martialed.
It took three months for Federation President Aennik Okeg to convince the Romulans and the Klingons to send representatives to a summit to discuss the situation. When the meeting finally began, Okeg made the Federation's position clear. He apologized for the experiments into cloaking technology, and said that he had signed an executive order banning all research into or creation of Federation cloaking technology.
"The narrow legal view may be that the Treaty of Algeron ended when Romulus was destroyed," Okeg said. "The Romulan Star Empire we knew is gone, and you are a new people. What has not changed is the Federation's commitment to peace."
In other terms: the Federation President actually disagrees with you.
LOL!!!!!!.......but seriously, I can't think of too many ships that actually had a battle cloak in the canon universe. The Romulan ship in the last next generationmovie, the scitar I think it was called, the future Enterprise in the last episode of the next generation didn't have it, the klingon ship in star trek 6 (also came with a captian quoting shakespear) and thats all I can come up with. I love the Defiant class ship. My 2 main toons both fly them and while I'm working my way up to have a fleet where I can build fleet Defiants. The improvements to the ship and the 5th tactical console make it a great ship. I rarely use my cloak because I would rather use more consoles to either boost my stats or boost my defence. I'm still debating what 5th console to place, either a phaser or quantum boost. In place of a battle cloak if anything else were added for suposed ballance I would say the most fitting possibilities would either be a dual quantum torp launcher, or a 360 degree fire arc single phaser array. I would rather see them be items to get in game...not the c-store, or lobi store, but in general I don't think the Defiant class ship needs anything more than what they have from the introduction of the fleet ship. If there was anything I would change at all I would offer a fleet version of the Sao Palo class, as I thought it had a better bridge officer lay out for survivability.
battle cloak is for the KDF, end of story. ( hopefully!! ahhh no devs! )
I'm not the one who's trying to get a Battle Cloak for the Defiant... I really don't care which way it goes, I don't use it much anyways.
Fact still stands, Escorts for Federation are comparable to the Raptors for the Klingon Defense Force.
i3-2100 3.10GHz
8GB Kingston HyperX Fury Blue 1333Mhz DDR3 RAM CL9
ASUS DirectCU II GTX 660 OC 2GB GDDR5
yeah just face it team, battle cloaks are the domain of the klingon's alone. the day they make them a fed thing, will be the day I just uninstall and say...
"yeah.. enough of that aggravation..."
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=424011