Thats a bit of a double standard is it not. The Defiant cannot be compared to the BOP, buts its convenient to say that the Defiant needs the BOP battle cloak?
I'm not the one who's trying to get a Battle Cloak for the Defiant... I really don't care which way it goes, I don't use it much anyways.
Fact still stands, Escorts for Federation are comparable to the Raptors for the Klingon Defense Force.
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yeah just face it team, battle cloaks are the domain of the klingon's alone. the day they make them a fed thing, will be the day I just uninstall and say...
5 Consoles vs Battle Cloak...gee I wonder which one is more of a advantage?
Mind you the normal BoP has 3 tac consoles and only 6 weapon slots to the normal Defiant's 4 tac consoles and 7 weapons slots.
The Fleet Defiant has 5 tac consoles to the Fleet Hoh'sus's 4 tac slots and still the 7 weapon slots on the Fleet Defiant to the 6 on the Fleet Hoh'sus.
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Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
what happens when we get a Romulan faction and every Romulan ship can Cloak?
You use eject warp plasma or there is science skill that helps this.Coaks really don't do anything is game play at range 10.you would have to be at range 30 out to make it effective.
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I have two feds that use the defiant, guess what? There is nothing wrong with them, or their builds.Want a battlecloak? Roll out a klingon character. For crying out loud, the devs didn't give the KDF alot of perks in this game.Can't one whinning fed player let them have this one unique skill? My main character is a fed, but I have three klingon alts, and three fed alts.I like the different abilities and ships they both bring to my entertainment experence in this game.
So no,I don't think the OP, or my fed toons should have the battlecloak.I respect the diehard KDF fans in this game, to defend their rights to this ability.
Yoohooo! Treaty of Algeron is still valid! Stops starfleet from DEVELOPING cloaking technology, so the cloaking device from the defiant, and the one on the Gal X is all they have!
If you want battle cloak, roll a KDF character.
I have two characters that i use regularly. Drex, a tac in a Hegh'ta BOP/Mirror Qin, and Arctic, a trill tac in a Fleet Defiant R with the cloaking device.
I'm the guy that uses unconventional builds, and don't fall to the normal. I also don't believe in "No-BS" TRIBBLE, it's in the game, it's ready to be used. Think Clint Eastwood in Heartbreak Ridge.
Y'know folks, this whole 'Battle Cloak' thing for the Feds is gonna happen even less because of the fact of Romulan Rep.
I REALLY doubt the Federation would want to tick off their new Romulan and Reman allies. If anything, the Federation would just say that they're simply shifting the Treaty of Algeron to be with these new Romulans instead of the old empire.
Heck, if anything, the Klingons should get some better cloaking, or cloaking-esque technology from all this. They'd jump on the chance I think to help the Romulans if it meant learning more on cloaking technology.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
as long as i can remember we are still playing Star Trek Online, and not shoot me online.
so the canon says FED's have no cloaks, except for defiant - with romulan help.
for all FED whiners - Your ships are better, you also have bigger pool to choose from, and if you don't like it, just start a KDF character.
The reason why you fail in PVP is NOT the cloak, but the fact that you cannot play the game.
Not all of you, of course, i have seen premade FED groups which took our (KDF) pug team apart in 20 seconds.. (not very often)
so i suggest you just do a little theorycrafting, some training, put a team together... and it is impossible for you NOT to win.
Though, to be fair, if enough Feds had to deal with the "Ensign Flatulent just decloaked us sir" where your on-bridge chatter decloaks you with no emissions, maybe it would get fixed...instead of being passed off as 'working as intended'.
You have a good point there.
Maybe let Feds have their cloak long enough to complain so that gets fixed, then take it away? :rolleyes:
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Every once in a while, when you lift the toilet seat up, it's just there, a "Klingons are op"-thread. Usually it is the result of someone having bit into a sour apple.
A contract is a contract...(but only between Ferengi).
The point is KDF is running around with Battlecloaks and saying "MINE!" when KDF was not the originator of the cloaking device, if we have a Romulan faction it means Romulan ships will have cloak.
I am pointing out KDF "exclusive" content is not even theirs, neither fighters or cloaking devices originated in the KDF so the whole claim about "taking away from the KDF originality" is absurd, Fighters were first shown in DS9 as used by the Federation and later in a movie by the Romulans but yet we have the KDF talking about how they losing carriers was "taking away from the KDF" and if as much I agree the Federation should not have cloaking devices, at least widespread usage it still does not change the KDF cannot go about how they are losing their originality when the moment we get a Romulan Faction they will by default gain access to Cloak.
It really doesn't matter as you will never use the cloak oh I do on my BoP retro but going by the movies it was just prototype.It was never seen afters not even in Gen. Mortak's BoP or he could of beaten the Jem adar easy.those fighter are just small shuttles.
You will never use the cloak as I never do it is just a was of time.It was never in Starfleet Command 1 and 2 only the Roms had it incase drones(missles) were fired at them and they have less tractors or phasers to take them out so they cloak.The klingon have what is called an add anti drone defence abroad thier ships so do feds.
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Also I am reminded of how the Defiant handled its cloaking device in the actual show... and there were plenty of times when it would have been handy for her to cloak and get out of dodge, but it seemed particularly sensitive to battle damage. In 'Way of the Warrior' its cloak was knocked out of comission when Sisko beamed Dukat and the Detapa council off their stricken vessel. In 'Sacrifice of Angels' attrition and piled-up battle damage had 'fried' it when they could really have used it to escape a desperate melee. Other times when they've used the cloak tactically was for the 'alpha-strike-immediately-upon-decloak' thing which they did in 'The Die Is Cast' and 'Way of the Warrior'.
So really I don't have a problem with the Defiant not having battlecloak. It fits the canon better IMO.
I feel the need to mention this if it already has been apologies. That being said on to the episode you quote 'way of the warrior'. The reason why the ships cloak was knocked out was cause sisco lowered the defiants shields, to beam dukat and the rest of the cardies on board allowing the klingons to shoot up the ship. The cloak on board was on loan from the romulans whose cloaking technology was more advanced then klingon cloaking tech. other episodes mentioned the ship had taken so many hits i'm supprised it helds together.
And lastly i don't remember the defiant having to wait to go off red alert to cloak. :P
I dont have much of a opinion on this topic on weather this should be added
As far as space STFs go with the defiant, I only use the cloak for Alpha strike,CRFIII,andHYT, against assimilated Neg'vars, and Raptors. The other STFs I usually pull the cloak, and add another Neutronium console for added durability. I don't see the need for a battlecloak for my gameplay style (fed side).:P
I only have a Federation Character and yes my Odyssey Tactical Cruiser is still a work in progress. i however enjoy flying alongside KDF players in STF. yes your ships arent as strong but you have modified your playing style to suit. I am not one of these people who will whine my ship isnt good enough or i dont have enough fire power. As i said my Ship is a work in progress.
But i never complain about lousy DPS. hell when i go into STF its actually good fun to see how much firepower a KDF ship has.
and if im one of those cruisers who you are refering to, ill say this. I dont want a cloaking device. why do i need one. a ship the size of an Odyssey Cruiser would put out so much energy signatures that a cloak would be pointless.
On my KDF toon, I never use the cloak 95% of the time as i see it as dishonorable, but against the Borg, it is useful for getting away from that tactical cube when it give you that dirty look
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
On my KDF toon, I never use the cloak 95% of the time as i see it as dishonorable, but against the Borg, it is useful for getting away from that tactical cube when it give you that dirty look
Then you fail to understand Klingons. One, you think cloaking is dishonorable, two you use what you think is dishonorable when it suits you, and three you run away from a fight... using a means that you already think is dishonorable. You must be a Duras.:P
The Defiant not having a battlecloak makes no difference to me (I have the Defiant). Sure there have been moments when I wished I could just cloak to escape my impending doom, but eh. Having played with a KDF character and a BoP it's hardly the get out of jail free card some think of it.
^ This, precisely. I have to strongly suspect that the majority of the Feds crying for a battle cloak have never played KDF in a BOP. I do, regularly... more than I play Fed side. And I LOVE my Hegh'Ta. But even in the KDF it get's more scathing reviews than glowing ones because it takes a very unique play style. In return for the Battle Cloak you give up quite a bit in shield/hull points. While cloaked you regen but slower than when not cloaked. The battle cloaking BOP is an Alpha striker, period. Get in, kill 'em, then get the hell outta dodge ASAP. Even in the KDF there are more who never manage to acquire the knack than do. I also fly a Defiant, Fed side and love it as is. It has better hull/shield support. It can be squishy, but nothing like a BOP. You willing to give up hull/shield points for an ability you may never master and might not enjoy even if you did?
*STO*Its mission: To destroy strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations... and then kill them, to boldly annihilate what no one has annihilated before!
Then you fail to understand Klingons. One, you think cloaking is dishonorable, two you use what you think is dishonorable when it suits you, and three you run away from a fight... using a means that you already think is dishonorable. You must be a Duras.:P
ROFLMAO - Yep... sounds like House of Duras to me!
*STO*Its mission: To destroy strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations... and then kill them, to boldly annihilate what no one has annihilated before!
^ This, precisely. I have to strongly suspect that the majority of the Feds crying for a battle cloak have never played KDF in a BOP. I do, regularly... more than I play Fed side. And I LOVE my Hegh'Ta. But even in the KDF it get's more scathing reviews than glowing ones because it takes a very unique play style. In return for the Battle Cloak you give up quite a bit in shield/hull points. While cloaked you regen but slower than when not cloaked. The battle cloaking BOP is an Alpha striker, period. Get in, kill 'em, then get the hell outta dodge ASAP. Even in the KDF there are more who never manage to acquire the knack than do. I also fly a Defiant, Fed side and love it as is. It has better hull/shield support. It can be squishy, but nothing like a BOP. You willing to give up hull/shield points for an ability you may never master and might not enjoy even if you did?
Agreed, the BoP only has a certain number of roles it can really be viable in, despite the full universal Boffslots. Technically, you can set up a BoP and toon to have the BoP do anything you want it to. The thing is, there will almost always be a ship that does what you're doing, and does it better. The BoP is a virtual jack-of-all-trades, and that has downsides to it.
The way I see it, there are three basic roles the BoP can really be useful in. One is the hit-and-run alpha-striking combined with the decloak, which requires a sense of timing and a bit of luck. Second, the B'Rel retrofit minelayer/torpboat/sci-spammer. . .again, a build that takes getting used to in terms of playstyle. Third, the regular-BC sci-spammer/healboat. . .take a Hegh'ta and load it up with sci and eng abilities and turn it into a makeshift support vessel that can slow down enemies, shut them down, or debuff them. . .and also throw out a few extends, HEs, and Eng Teams. This would likely be done better by a B'Rel Retro, but a Hegh'ta can manage it.
The BoP almost always has trouble tanking under heavy fire. Lower shield mod, lower hullpoints, low amount of eng console slots. . .you would have to devote quite a few boff ability slots towards tanking skills to make a BoP truly tank well. In the meantime, you lose either DPS ability or you lose the ability to sci-spam/heal others.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
i have the cloak and found myself switching it out for theta radiation to help slow down those pesky nanite spheres etc. cloak is prity useless in PVE personally. it is kinda handy in PVP which to be honest doesn't really exist anymore so no complaints really. have to say though if PVP took off big time and open sector PVP became a reality a battle cloak would be good. Theirs not much defence against an enemy that basically focuses all attacks on a single ship and flies away cloaked to re-heal and repeat over and over again. yes theirs mines and other things but really it gets annoying after a while. kinda ruines PVP for the feds. I know the klinks dont get much their way but it does destroy PVP a little. Maybe some day we can all dream of an equal klingon empire to the feds. where both sides are fully fleshed out and combat is fair and fun. maybe then things will change. till then i doubt any change will occur.
Comments
I'm not the one who's trying to get a Battle Cloak for the Defiant... I really don't care which way it goes, I don't use it much anyways.
Fact still stands, Escorts for Federation are comparable to the Raptors for the Klingon Defense Force.
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yeah just face it team, battle cloaks are the domain of the klingon's alone. the day they make them a fed thing, will be the day I just uninstall and say...
"yeah.. enough of that aggravation..."
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=424011
They each have their "own" advantage.
Defiants have the cloak + 5 TAC consoles
BOP has battle cloak + NOT 5 TAC consoles.
The way I see it, Feds want it all.
Mind you the normal BoP has 3 tac consoles and only 6 weapon slots to the normal Defiant's 4 tac consoles and 7 weapons slots.
The Fleet Defiant has 5 tac consoles to the Fleet Hoh'sus's 4 tac slots and still the 7 weapon slots on the Fleet Defiant to the 6 on the Fleet Hoh'sus.
Support a KDF equivalent to the Vesta Here
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
So no,I don't think the OP, or my fed toons should have the battlecloak.I respect the diehard KDF fans in this game, to defend their rights to this ability.
If you want battle cloak, roll a KDF character.
I have two characters that i use regularly. Drex, a tac in a Hegh'ta BOP/Mirror Qin, and Arctic, a trill tac in a Fleet Defiant R with the cloaking device.
I REALLY doubt the Federation would want to tick off their new Romulan and Reman allies. If anything, the Federation would just say that they're simply shifting the Treaty of Algeron to be with these new Romulans instead of the old empire.
Heck, if anything, the Klingons should get some better cloaking, or cloaking-esque technology from all this. They'd jump on the chance I think to help the Romulans if it meant learning more on cloaking technology.
so the canon says FED's have no cloaks, except for defiant - with romulan help.
for all FED whiners - Your ships are better, you also have bigger pool to choose from, and if you don't like it, just start a KDF character.
The reason why you fail in PVP is NOT the cloak, but the fact that you cannot play the game.
Not all of you, of course, i have seen premade FED groups which took our (KDF) pug team apart in 20 seconds.. (not very often)
so i suggest you just do a little theorycrafting, some training, put a team together... and it is impossible for you NOT to win.
You have a good point there.
Maybe let Feds have their cloak long enough to complain so that gets fixed, then take it away? :rolleyes:
You will never use the cloak as I never do it is just a was of time.It was never in Starfleet Command 1 and 2 only the Roms had it incase drones(missles) were fired at them and they have less tractors or phasers to take them out so they cloak.The klingon have what is called an add anti drone defence abroad thier ships so do feds.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Its not an IWIN button. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Yeah, that's right.
I feel the need to mention this if it already has been apologies. That being said on to the episode you quote 'way of the warrior'. The reason why the ships cloak was knocked out was cause sisco lowered the defiants shields, to beam dukat and the rest of the cardies on board allowing the klingons to shoot up the ship. The cloak on board was on loan from the romulans whose cloaking technology was more advanced then klingon cloaking tech. other episodes mentioned the ship had taken so many hits i'm supprised it helds together.
And lastly i don't remember the defiant having to wait to go off red alert to cloak. :P
I dont have much of a opinion on this topic on weather this should be added
but i needed to address that subject
[/SIGPIC]
But i never complain about lousy DPS. hell when i go into STF its actually good fun to see how much firepower a KDF ship has.
and if im one of those cruisers who you are refering to, ill say this. I dont want a cloaking device. why do i need one. a ship the size of an Odyssey Cruiser would put out so much energy signatures that a cloak would be pointless.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Then you fail to understand Klingons. One, you think cloaking is dishonorable, two you use what you think is dishonorable when it suits you, and three you run away from a fight... using a means that you already think is dishonorable. You must be a Duras.:P
^ This, precisely. I have to strongly suspect that the majority of the Feds crying for a battle cloak have never played KDF in a BOP. I do, regularly... more than I play Fed side. And I LOVE my Hegh'Ta. But even in the KDF it get's more scathing reviews than glowing ones because it takes a very unique play style. In return for the Battle Cloak you give up quite a bit in shield/hull points. While cloaked you regen but slower than when not cloaked. The battle cloaking BOP is an Alpha striker, period. Get in, kill 'em, then get the hell outta dodge ASAP. Even in the KDF there are more who never manage to acquire the knack than do. I also fly a Defiant, Fed side and love it as is. It has better hull/shield support. It can be squishy, but nothing like a BOP. You willing to give up hull/shield points for an ability you may never master and might not enjoy even if you did?
ROFLMAO - Yep... sounds like House of Duras to me!
Agreed, the BoP only has a certain number of roles it can really be viable in, despite the full universal Boffslots. Technically, you can set up a BoP and toon to have the BoP do anything you want it to. The thing is, there will almost always be a ship that does what you're doing, and does it better. The BoP is a virtual jack-of-all-trades, and that has downsides to it.
The way I see it, there are three basic roles the BoP can really be useful in. One is the hit-and-run alpha-striking combined with the decloak, which requires a sense of timing and a bit of luck. Second, the B'Rel retrofit minelayer/torpboat/sci-spammer. . .again, a build that takes getting used to in terms of playstyle. Third, the regular-BC sci-spammer/healboat. . .take a Hegh'ta and load it up with sci and eng abilities and turn it into a makeshift support vessel that can slow down enemies, shut them down, or debuff them. . .and also throw out a few extends, HEs, and Eng Teams. This would likely be done better by a B'Rel Retro, but a Hegh'ta can manage it.
The BoP almost always has trouble tanking under heavy fire. Lower shield mod, lower hullpoints, low amount of eng console slots. . .you would have to devote quite a few boff ability slots towards tanking skills to make a BoP truly tank well. In the meantime, you lose either DPS ability or you lose the ability to sci-spam/heal others.
If defiant gets battle cloak, then it must give up 1 Tac slot, 1 Weapons slot, hull, and shields just like the BOP had to when it got battle cloak.
Still comfortable with that request?
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