Defiant Battle Cloak

bridgern

With the new 1000 day Vet ships the Klingons got now an escort with a battle cloak, I think it is time that also the Defiant get's a battle cloak. Otherwise the Federation is completly loosing out against the Klingons, that can mount on every ship Cannons, and 95% of their ships have a cloak, battle cloak or advanced battle cloak.

leeandrew80

I agree, the Defiant NEEDS a battle cloak. The reason it didn't get one so far was because of balancing for both factions. To be honest, I doubt the Defiant getting a BC will be that much of a major issue. Considering most players in this game only play PvE, why not give that little ship what it deserves? Besides from the fact that in Trek any ship with a cloak could use it when ever... :-)

misterde3

In other words: battlecloaks for everyone!

stofsk

The Defiant not having a battlecloak makes no difference to me (I have the Defiant). Sure there have been moments when I wished I could just cloak to escape my impending doom, but eh. Having played with a KDF character and a BoP it's hardly the get out of jail free card some think of it.

Also I am reminded of how the Defiant handled its cloaking device in the actual show... and there were plenty of times when it would have been handy for her to cloak and get out of dodge, but it seemed particularly sensitive to battle damage. In 'Way of the Warrior' its cloak was knocked out of comission when Sisko beamed Dukat and the Detapa council off their stricken vessel. In 'Sacrifice of Angels' attrition and piled-up battle damage had 'fried' it when they could really have used it to escape a desperate melee. Other times when they've used the cloak tactically was for the 'alpha-strike-immediately-upon-decloak' thing which they did in 'The Die Is Cast' and 'Way of the Warrior'.

So really I don't have a problem with the Defiant not having battlecloak. It fits the canon better IMO.

rgrgeom

i don't think the defiant needs battle cloak although it would be good but i really don't use it very much and since pvp is useless there's no real need. i am annoyed about the fact that the kdf do get a battle cloak on their 1000 day vet reward. personally i would rather have theres than the chimera. ours looks like TRIBBLE and to add insult to injury the kdf still get a battle cloak with it. bit of a TRIBBLE take. im not saying the feds necessarily need a cloak but balance things a little at least

bridgern

misterde3 wrote: »

In other words: battlecloaks for everyone!

Not necessary, cruisers does not need a battle cloak because they have the survivability but I could see it for escorts, at least for some of them.

tebsu

it may fit canon for you but its a problem in kerrat. lot of times, i get "alpha-strike"-shoot by a klingon (not destroying my ship) and then he cloaks. he is doing this over and over again (really happend not just once but quite often) so i cannot teach him a lesson. makes kerrat less funny for me.

okay lets say i dont have a problem with the cloak not being a battle cloak but then at least do not make it as a console for us but instead as in the ship implemented...

misterde3

bridgern wrote: »

Not necessary, cruisers does not need a battle cloak because they have the survivability but I could see it for escorts, at least for some of them.

The Defiant also has a lot more survivability than the BoP AND the highest agility of all the escorts of its tier.
And of we go by canon, Klingon cruisers should cloak just like BoPs.
Same should go for Raptors, the Defiant's counterpart of course.

xathanael

I'll trade you One (1) Battle-Cloak for...say...a KDF Escort with Five (5) Tac Consoles.
Deal? Didn't think so. Quit whining and just enjoy what you have

hanover

A battle cloak might be a nice little perk to add to the fleet Defiant....

bitemepwe

"completely losing out to the Klingons..."

Oh please...............:rolleyes:

levi3

bitemepwe wrote: »

"completely losing out to the Klingons..."

Oh please...............:rolleyes:

I think I already beat the OP to this idea didn't I Roach?

xathanael

hanover2 wrote: »

A battle cloak might be a nice little perk to add to the fleet Defiant....

Why? It already gets a 5th Tac Console Slot, it doesn't need a Battle Cloak on top of that

hanover

nikolaivladikov wrote: »

Why? It already gets a 5th Tac Console Slot, it doesn't need a Battle Cloak on top of that

I barely use my cloak now, and if it were another console i probably wouldn't use the battle cloak very often. I just think it would be nifty, is all.

levi3

All Fed ships need to be outfitted withe the Phased battle cloak from the TNG episode - where Rikers old captain - now an Adm were working on the experimental cloak in secret and there was a mutiny on the ship.

That and a 50% hull increase across the board!!

Yeah Baby!!

hanover

Let's not pretend this is about anything but Klingon players' need to feel special by having a toy the Feds can't play with.

:rolleyes:

captainf00k

I fly the defiant as my main ship. I don't think that the Defiant needs a battle cloak. That would probably be overpowered. I do however see a few issues which could use attention:

1. Spam sees through and rips off cloak negating it's purpose. In KvF you might as well not use it as there's usually 1 or 2 carriers.

2. Context windows drop cloak. That makes no sense. I don't remember the Defiant decloaking every time Warf said something to Sisko.

3. The time to cloak is an issue. A battle cloak would be too short of a window (shoot, cloak, rinse, repeat). 10+ seconds to drop red alert is too long. As it stands now, the cloak, which uses a console space, is a bit of a one trick pony. In order to use it more than once during a spawn/lifespan in PvP you need to jet far from the battle and hope no spam is around or following you.

It would be nice to see #1 and 2 fixed. Perhaps there is some middle ground for #3.

adamkafei

captainf00k wrote: »

2. Context windows drop cloak. That makes no sense. I don't remember the Defiant decloaking every time Warf said something to Sisko.

It would be nice to see #1 and 2 fixed. Perhaps there is some middle ground for #3.

Cryptic have stated somewhere "The cloak is working as intended", sorry as much as i agree with you on this one, Cryptic have spoken

bridgern

bitemepwe wrote: »

"completely losing out to the Klingons..."

Oh please...............:rolleyes:

Ok than do a PVP match were you go against 10 Klingon ships that all have a cloak and all are either consiting of Fleet Vor'cha's B'rel's and Fleet Quin Heavy Raptors and each of them is getting a +15% to their damage.

I play both sides FED and KDF and the Klingons can overun a FED fleet easily, for the FED's it is much harder.

And now the KDF have access to an Escort with a battle cloak, that is tougher than the C-Store and the Fleet version of the Defiant.

havam

since today's patch has once again raised the bar for completely outlandish changes to space mechanics.

All hail the [Cloaked alpha I win button]
Item: Consumable
55% chance to kill the other team, 65% against KDF players,
Comes with a shinny blaze of cannon fire glory animation
Makes me feel real pro*

799 Lobi


*YMMV

drkfrontiers

rgrgeom wrote: »

i don't think the defiant needs battle cloak although it would be good but i really don't use it very much and since pvp is useless there's no real need. i am annoyed about the fact that the kdf do get a battle cloak on their 1000 day vet reward. personally i would rather have theres than the chimera. ours looks like TRIBBLE and to add insult to injury the kdf still get a battle cloak with it. bit of a TRIBBLE take. im not saying the feds necessarily need a cloak but balance things a little at least

The kdf ship sacrificed shield mod for the cloak. There is balance.

drkfrontiers

hanover2 wrote: »

Let's not pretend this is about anything but Klingon players' need to feel special by having a toy the Feds can't play with.

:rolleyes:

What are you talking about. The ships are virtually identical.

The kdf version comes with a cloak which is a cannon archetype of ship for the Klingon Empire.

The federation ship got more shields, and quite frankly more firepower that the factions history or backstory warrants.

theultimatefunky

leeandrew80 wrote: »

I agree, the Defiant NEEDS a battle cloak. The reason it didn't get one so far was because of balancing for both factions. To be honest, I doubt the Defiant getting a BC will be that much of a major issue. Considering most players in this game only play PvE, why not give that little ship what it deserves? Besides from the fact that in Trek any ship with a cloak could use it when ever... :-)

this game is the most unbalanced game ever, the klingons are WAY more overpowered than the feds, the dev's seem to be giving klinks tech that only the romulans would use, i mean consoles that take EVERY system offline for like 6-10 sec's hmmm vry unfair especially in pvp, and now they have a escort with battle cloak, this is why im NEVER doing pvp vs klinks again and that includes kerrat, not untill the game is truly balanced and stop over powering the klinks with stupid disable consoles, and no im not a classic klink hater as i have a max level klink that i play with all the time, and no i dont have any of the consoles as i dont have any of the klink c-store ships

bitemepwe

theultimatefunky wrote: »

this game is the most unbalanced game ever, the klingons are WAY more overpowered than the feds, the dev's seem to be giving klinks tech that only the romulans would use, i mean consoles that take EVERY system offline for like 6-10 sec's hmmm vry unfair especially in pvp, and now they have a escort with battle cloak, this is why im NEVER doing pvp vs klinks again and that includes kerrat, not untill the game is truly balanced and stop over powering the klinks with stupid disable consoles, and no im not a classic klink hater as i have a max level klink that i play with all the time, and no i dont have any of the consoles as i dont have any of the klink c-store ships

What console that takes every system offline?

It cant be the Plasmonic leech as it only drains 16 points a system max from the target and only if the target is completely unspecced to resist drain. If the taget is specced to resist drain then the PL only drains about 5 points a system.
The Plasmonic leech was nerfed since the last you played I believe.

bitemepwe

bridgern wrote: »

Ok than do a PVP match were you go against 10 Klingon ships that all have a cloak and all are either consiting of Fleet Vor'cha's B'rel's and Fleet Quin Heavy Raptors and each of them is getting a +15% to their damage.

OK.
As long as you take your Defiant against 10 fed ships consisting of Fleet Cruisers, Fleet Science vessels, Fed Carriers (don"t forget the TB pets) and Fleet Defiants (which also get +15% damage from decloaking) and attempt to decloak and alpha strike any of them without dying afterwards.

If you are having issues holding off the KDF attack in PvP then I suggest you are being out played and your fed team of the moment needs to work together better.

I play both sides FED and KDF and the Klingons can overun a FED fleet easily, for the FED's it is much harder.

Not from what I have seen in PvP. When the feds work together the greatly increase the chance to win and often roll the KDF in the process.

And now the KDF have access to an Escort with a battle cloak, that is tougher than the C-Store and the Fleet version of the Defiant.

Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit
Hull 33,000
Shield Modifier 0.9
weapons:
Fore :4
Aft: 3
Crew: 50
consoles:
tactical: 5
engineer: 3
science: 2
devices: 2
turnrate: 17

versus

Hull Strength: 34,500
Shield Modifier: 0.833
Crew: 750
Weapons: 4 Fore, 3 Aft
Device Slots: 3
Console Modifications: 4 Tactical, 3 Engineering, 2 Science
Base Turn Rate: 14 degrees per second


Wow, that extra 1500 Hull makes us OP? doubtful.
Maybe its the -3 points difference in turnrate making the GrandVet reward ship slower than a Defiant?
It must be that -1 to tactical slots. The KDF GV ship only has 4. Thats why the GrandVet ship is OP.

The only way the KDF GV ship is tougher than a Defiant is if the player uses the LTC for Engineering and flies it like a cruiser. You are putting way too much into the battle cloak being OP.
Otherwise the Defiant is still the biggest escort alpha strike heavy hitter and escort tanker in the game.

misterde3

You forgot the highter shield mod on the Fleet-Defiant.;)

phyrexianhero

bridgern wrote: »

With the new 1000 day Vet ships the Klingons got now an escort with a battle cloak, I think it is time that also the Defiant get's a battle cloak. Otherwise the Federation is completly loosing out against the Klingons, that can mount on every ship Cannons, and 95% of their ships have a cloak, battle cloak or advanced battle cloak.

I fly a Defiant and even though it'd benefit me, I think its important that KDF has exclusive use of battle cloak. They do have a few centuries more experience on cloaking technology.

travelingmaster

bitemepwe wrote: »

OK.
As long as you take your Defiant against 10 fed ships consisting of Fleet Cruisers, Fleet Science vessels, Fed Carriers (don"t forget the TB pets) and Fleet Defiants (which also get +15% damage from decloaking) and attempt to decloak and alpha strike any of them without dying afterwards.

If you are having issues holding off the KDF attack in PvP then I suggest you are being out played and your fed team of the moment needs to work together better.


Not from what I have seen in PvP. When the feds work together the greatly increase the chance to win and often roll the KDF in the process.



Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit
Hull 33,000
Shield Modifier 0.9
weapons:
Fore :4
Aft: 3
Crew: 50
consoles:
tactical: 5
engineer: 3
science: 2
devices: 2
turnrate: 17

versus

Hull Strength: 34,500
Shield Modifier: 0.833
Crew: 750
Weapons: 4 Fore, 3 Aft
Device Slots: 3
Console Modifications: 4 Tactical, 3 Engineering, 2 Science
Base Turn Rate: 14 degrees per second


Wow, that extra 1500 Hull makes us OP? doubtful.
Maybe its the -3 points difference in turnrate making the GrandVet reward ship slower than a Defiant?
It must be that -1 to tactical slots. The KDF GV ship only has 4. Thats why the GrandVet ship is OP.

The only way the KDF GV ship is tougher than a Defiant is if the player uses the LTC for Engineering and flies it like a cruiser. You are putting way too much into the battle cloak being OP.
Otherwise the Defiant is still the biggest escort alpha strike heavy hitter and escort tanker in the game.

Yeah, it's funny as hell listening to Feddies whine about the battlecloak. All it does is enable a slightly easier escape. . .and in all honesty, you could use the Photonic Displacement console to have a fairly effective escape route, or you could stock up on Evasive conn doffs and keep out of people's reach. The battlecloak is nowhere near 'OP'. It's useful, that's all. The Enhanced Battlecloak on a B'rel is a thing of beauty, and good players know how to use every bit of that advantage to harass and even kill enemies from cloak.

bitemepwe

travelingmaster wrote: »

bitemepwe wrote: »

Yeah, it's funny as hell listening to Feddies whine about the battlecloak. All it does is enable a slightly easier escape. . .and in all honesty, you could use the Photonic Displacement console to have a fairly effective escape route, or you could stock up on Evasive conn doffs and keep out of people's reach. The battlecloak is nowhere near 'OP'. It's useful, that's all.

Exactly!! It helps one flee from a fight easier. If one is already fleeing from a fight then one was losing said fight the battle cloak doesn't change that it just keeps me from dying becuase I can run hide quicker.
So in the grand scheme of things my new GV destroyer is gonna be able to run from a fight as easily as a BoP. Big deal.
How the hell is that OP?

The Enhanced Battlecloak on a B'rel is a thing of beauty, and good players know how to use every bit of that advantage to harass and even kill enemies from cloak.

Now this is the truth and had they put the EBC on any ship but the fleet ning'toa I would have complained as loudly as anyone.

hereticknight085

bridgern wrote: »

With the new 1000 day Vet ships the Klingons got now an escort with a battle cloak, I think it is time that also the Defiant get's a battle cloak. Otherwise the Federation is completly loosing out against the Klingons, that can mount on every ship Cannons, and 95% of their ships have a cloak, battle cloak or advanced battle cloak.

To the above.

NO.

voporak

My main ship is the Fleet Defiant. And you know what I say? No. I agree with Roach. The F. Defiant already dominates most of the game. And when combined with a subspace jump console (yes, I do use one) all hell can break loose.