To make my response a tad more specific. I am a mostly fed player (with a maxed level klingon who has max level gear), and I am also a defiant fan (tough little ship ;P). And I still say to defiant battlecloak: NO. FFS people. That thing has good base hp, 5 tac consoles, I say again, 5, and turns like a beast. It already can cloak.
So you have a ship with HUGE burst potential (highest in the game I believe) that can sneak up on targets and then remove their right to exist, and now you want to give it the ability to cloak in battle? Seriously? The only reason I can see for wanting to do that is to get into a better position to exterminate your victim, or to get away. If you're unable to do the first one, get out of your defiant and go into a cruiser and tank/heal, cuz if you can't fly a ship that maneuverable into a better position, you need to get a ship that doesn't need to move much. NOW. And if it's for the second one? Um... did you ever hear of PH + TT1 + EPtS + EM and then run like hell?
I see NO need whatsoever of ANY kind for the defiant to have a battlecloak. And if you want to increase your burst capability with this? GTFO and go home. Now.
Man and I thought the cruiser threads were getting to the point of ludicrous. I now know what ludicrous truly is.
To OP, what are you smokin bro, I want some.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
My main ship is the Fleet Defiant. And you know what I say? No. I agree with Roach. The F. Defiant already dominates most of the game. And when combined with a subspace jump console (yes, I do use one) all hell can break loose.
The Fleet D is a gun and the player merely has thr trigger. Point it, shoot and watch the target "teleport in a fine red mist" as my favorite saying goes.
The jumper is just a double tap for zombies (and its fun):P
Well in the defense of the feds, the KDF does have the sexiest cruiser in existence (Tor'Kaht Retrofit), and you guys do have the fun consoles (plasmonic leech, Isometric Charge), and you guys do have cloak. So how can you NOT want to be a fed kdf? XD
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Well in the defense of the feds, the KDF does have the sexiest cruiser in existence (Tor'Kaht Retrofit), and you guys do have the fun consoles (plasmonic leech, Isometric Charge), and you guys do have cloak. So how can you NOT want to be a fed kdf? XD
Yes, the KDF is a very sexy, manly faction. That's why people who want our stuff should join the ****ing faction, instead of stealing KDF exclusives and putting them on Fed vessels.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
I don't think you read any of the posts here. Level the playing field? Are you frakkin TRIBBLE? What part about 5 tac consoles, great turn, and good hull and defensive abilities is not computing? If you give it a battlecloak, that will COMPLETELY break the Defiant.
I love the ship, but I want her to be fair, not broken.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
I don't see how it would break the ship. That's stupid. I don't see why the Klingons can have it but the defiant or galaxy x can't.
We are only talking about 2 ships.
Not everyone uses them anyway.
It probably won't happen but I wish it would. Why should only Klingons have it?
And btw, there is no need for name calling ******!
Heh... Wow... You don't see how it would break the ship. You do realize the defiant is among the most powerful if not the most powerful federation escort there is right? And a decloaking alpha strike (plus all the additional appropriate buffs and debuffs) from one of them can vaporize an oddy operations cruiser running full field generators and neutronium with maxed out tanking skills that has also activated the appropriate defensive buffs right?
The klingons can have battle cloak for one very simple reason. They started with cloaking technology. It's their thing. The original defiant cloak was a ROMULAN cloaking device. And the only battle cloak the romulans have is the scimitar class dreadnaught, and that's actually a REMAN device. And it's a perfect, I say again PERFECT cloak.
Soooo that being the case, why would the federation ever have access to such a cloaking device? Even in canon, they never were able to get their hands on a klingon cloaking device. So there is no reason as to why the feds would ever have one. And if you gave the defiant the battle cloak, that would be broken. Seriously broken. The only godsend is you can burst the defiant down if it makes a mistake. But that would have to be a serious mistake. If you gave the ship a battle cloak, it would be able to get away even more easily.
But think about it. This ship is almost perfect. It's fast, crazy powerful, very very VERY maneuverable, and can be quite tanky as is. Allow me to give you its exact stats.
*Additional Notes:
This ship can use the Universal Cloaking Module acquired from the Tactical Escort Retrofit
Due to the small size of the sprite, this ships actual turn rate is much higher
Looking at the above statistics, the only weakness I see is the non-universal ensign, which isn't too big of a problem. But that ship has massive firepower capability, the ability to cloak already, GREAT turn rate and durability. Does ANYTHING listed above say "Give me a battle-cloak?" I asked the OP a question, and I'll ask you the same thing.
What are you smoking? Cuz I want some to get rid of any semblance of sanity I have left.
As for the Dreadnaught? What? Where did that come from? This is a Defiant thread.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
By the way, I've heard people say that the .9 shield mod on the fleet defiant is a typo and it's actually .99, not sure if this is true but I wouldn't be surprised if it is.
Wow. Are you kidding me? You seriously don't see why this is just stupid? Yes, stats matter. And a cloak is a weapon. Here is why stats matter. It's stats show that a cloak is not required and not needed. And with the ships already existing capabilities, a cloak is excessive to say the least. But let me ask you this, since you don't seem capable of seeing reason.
Why should a defiant have a battle cloak? How will this level the playing field? What benefits will it give and how will it balance PvP?
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
With the new 1000 day Vet ships the Klingons got now an escort with a battle cloak, I think it is time that also the Defiant get's a battle cloak. Otherwise the Federation is completly loosing out against the Klingons, that can mount on every ship Cannons, and 95% of their ships have a cloak, battle cloak or advanced battle cloak.
NO!!!
First off, I have the Defiant so it's not that I wouldn't want this for the fact that I don't have battle cloak on Fed.
But, KDF has only two things better about them than Fed: KHG ground set bonus, and ships.
Take those away, and KDF has nothing over Fed.
...other than Ferasans, of course.
__________________________________ CO noob and STO veteran.
Ok. You've made your point. Allow me to explain. And please try to see it from somewhere outside your defiant's bridge. In fact the post right before mine puts out reason #1. Do feds have a battle cloak? No. Does the KDF have it? Yes. It's something that makes the two factions unique. It's something that separates them. That in and of itself should be reason enough.
Secondly, the battle cloak changes combat completely for the defiant. Current meta is you alpha strike and hope to destroy them. If you fail, you beat them down, but they know where you are and can counter attack/destroy you. If you give the defiant a battle-cloak, they can re-cloak and then attack again, from a different angle with another 15% attack bonus. Basically you will turn the defiant into a tougher, more heavily armed and nastier version of a BoP. Again, something unique to the KDF.
Lastly, the defiant doesn't need it. How does it affect stats? It doesn't directly affect them. There is no change at all to its actual stats. But it changes how those stats can be used. It changes game-play for the ship. Anyone you ask will tell you that the Fleet Defiant is second only to the bug when it comes to sheer power of that ship class (or if they have only fought those weakling slime npcs, they will say it's the MOST powerful escort). With stats like that, you don't need the battle-cloak, and again, with stats like that, you give them a battle-cloak and it becomes unstoppable.
I know you escort pilots like your ships, and they are already VERY powerful, arguably more so than any other ship class, especially fed escorts (raptors still have that turn issue). Add on a cloak and your escort is crazily powerful. Give it the ability to RE-CLOAK?? I don't mean to rant here, but COME ON. That's nuts.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
*Additional Notes:
This ship can use the Universal Cloaking Module acquired from the Tactical Escort Retrofit
Hegh'ta Heavy Bird Of Prey (not even fleet version)
Hull Points: irrelevant due to ability to stay out of canon arc with ease and then cloak.
Shield Modifier: irrelevant due to ability to stay out of canon arc with ease and then cloak.
Fore Weapons: 4 (DHC enabled)
Rear Weapons: 2
Crew: 100
BOff Setup: All universal. Infinite variation.
Device Slots: 2
Console Setup: 3 Tactical, 3 Engineering, 3 Science
Base Turn Rate: 21
*Additional Notes:
This ship can use the battle cloak without wasting any module slot.
Amazing how none of the klingons here mention that turn rate, yet keep spamming on about a minor shield and hull difference...
Completely irrelevant when you can stay out of the enemy arc with ease... Hell, that's enough turn rate to out-turn some shuttles (without even any turn rate modules)...
First off, by sprite size, I mean size of ship in game. That affects it's pivot point which affects turn rate (more specifically cannon arc, since it can keep the cannons on target more easily). So no, not drunk, just following it's weird in game physics.
But if you took away the attack bonus from the decloak on the defiant only, I would find that acceptable.
(and here comes the fed rage).
Oh and one more thing, you can stay out of cannon arcs, but guess what, beam arrays can still frag you.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
First off, by sprite size, I mean size of ship in game. That affects it's pivot point which affects turn rate (more specifically cannon arc, since it can keep the cannons on target more easily). So no, not drunk, just following it's weird in game physics.
Fair enough. This affects cannon arcs but only for an extra moment.
But if you took away the attack bonus from the decloak on the defiant only, I would find that acceptable.
(and here comes the fed rage).
I would suggest that defiant retro's come with a battle cloak (as above) and the normal defiant comes with the original device (even though I believe the alpha is stupid - how the hell does a cloak increase damage?)
I would also suggest that possibly the Qin (only) could recieve a battle cloak *upgrade module* for complete balance with these changes. This device would probably also need to lower hull strength (and/or shield strength).
Oh and one more thing, you can stay out of cannon arcs, but guess what, beam arrays can still frag you.
If you decloak in the defiant's arc, sure - but that's your own fault. Come in from an angle and they should not be able to get their arc on you to take down your shields in time for beams to finish you off.
I really am not trying to take sides here, but I do believe the defiant's current cloak is a joke at that tier - as is the qin raptor's. I believe that balance could be found however that should suit everyone.
>>>UniqueOne-Providing you with easy PVP kills since Feb 2012<<<
That beam part was actually in reference to cruisers, not to the defiant. And if I ever see a defiant with beam arrays, I can guarantee you I will drag a tac cube over to it to kill it because that's just an insult to that ship.
However with your idea, you don't really want to give a tier 3 ship a cloak, since after all, those are 25th century versions of the defiant class, not the actual defiant. In fact, the "original device" was destroyed at chintoka by a breen chel'gret cruiser. The USS Sau Paulo did not have a cloak.
But I say leave it as is, with the Defiant R having a standard cloak, and if you ever give a battle cloak to ANY defiant class, then remove any buffs it gives.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
That beam part was actually in reference to cruisers, not to the defiant. And if I ever see a defiant with beam arrays, I can guarantee you I will drag a tac cube over to it to kill it because that's just an insult to that ship.
Well I sometimes use a few beams with subsystem targeting (and cannons on the downed shield) on a defiant just for fun.
However with your idea, you don't really want to give a tier 3 ship a cloak, since after all, those are 25th century versions of the defiant class, not the actual defiant. In fact, the "original device" was destroyed at chintoka by a breen chel'gret cruiser. The USS Sau Paulo did not have a cloak.
Yeah they are 25th centry ships, but not flown at that time. It is not unrealistic to believe that module tech has increased since then - even if the ship design itself is still the same.
But I say leave it as is, with the Defiant R having a standard cloak, and if you ever give a battle cloak to ANY defiant class, then remove any buffs it gives.
I believe the standard cloak is junk (and the buff also), but a bc with removed buffs would be fair.
>>>UniqueOne-Providing you with easy PVP kills since Feb 2012<<<
I still don't get why Klingon players are always trying to "1 up" fed players.
You mean when the Feds want to give the Defiant a battlecloak but at the same time say no to a battlecloak on its actual counterpart the Raptor the Klingon players are trying to 1 up the Feds?
How does that worK?
At the end of the day I doubt anything will actually change which makes this whole thread a waste of time
So stop complaining about how much of a bad idea it is to fit the defiant with a battle cloak!
Will be interesting to see if they give the Romulan faction a perfect cloak or not.
There is talk of making them playable in the future.
We know.
But it's doubtful they'll get a "perfect cloak" (what does that mean anyway?).
And if you followed several of the couple dozen thread that have come up on this mattr over the last 2 1/2 years you'll know that most of the KDF players want them to have battlecloaks on all their ships.
Because the Romulans are the masters of cloak.
So it's not about keeping the battlecloak a KDF exclusive, it's about giving it to a faction where it makes actual sense.
You mean when the Feds want to give the Defiant a battlecloak but at the same time say no to a battlecloak on its actual counterpart the Raptor the Klingon players are trying to 1 up the Feds?
How does that worK?
Comments
So you have a ship with HUGE burst potential (highest in the game I believe) that can sneak up on targets and then remove their right to exist, and now you want to give it the ability to cloak in battle? Seriously? The only reason I can see for wanting to do that is to get into a better position to exterminate your victim, or to get away. If you're unable to do the first one, get out of your defiant and go into a cruiser and tank/heal, cuz if you can't fly a ship that maneuverable into a better position, you need to get a ship that doesn't need to move much. NOW. And if it's for the second one? Um... did you ever hear of PH + TT1 + EPtS + EM and then run like hell?
I see NO need whatsoever of ANY kind for the defiant to have a battlecloak. And if you want to increase your burst capability with this? GTFO and go home. Now.
Man and I thought the cruiser threads were getting to the point of ludicrous. I now know what ludicrous truly is.
To OP, what are you smokin bro, I want some.
The Fleet D is a gun and the player merely has thr trigger. Point it, shoot and watch the target "teleport in a fine red mist" as my favorite saying goes.
The jumper is just a double tap for zombies (and its fun):P
R.I.P
Me too.
R.I.P
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
So they should roll a Klingon character and quit whining.
Learn how the other side plays then you can develop an opinion on battlecloak.
The defiant 'needs' a battle cloak?
LOLOLOL.
um.... no. Perhaps L2P?
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
yea why dont tell to dev team to give the entire kdf to the feds and finish all this baby cry of feds :rolleyes:
Yes, the KDF is a very sexy, manly faction. That's why people who want our stuff should join the ****ing faction, instead of stealing KDF exclusives and putting them on Fed vessels.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
At least in the combat ships like the defiant.
Give us the option so we can level the PvP playing field.
I love the ship, but I want her to be fair, not broken.
We are only talking about 2 ships.
Not everyone uses them anyway.
It probably won't happen but I wish it would. Why should only Klingons have it?
And btw, there is no need for name calling ******!
Heh... Wow... You don't see how it would break the ship. You do realize the defiant is among the most powerful if not the most powerful federation escort there is right? And a decloaking alpha strike (plus all the additional appropriate buffs and debuffs) from one of them can vaporize an oddy operations cruiser running full field generators and neutronium with maxed out tanking skills that has also activated the appropriate defensive buffs right?
The klingons can have battle cloak for one very simple reason. They started with cloaking technology. It's their thing. The original defiant cloak was a ROMULAN cloaking device. And the only battle cloak the romulans have is the scimitar class dreadnaught, and that's actually a REMAN device. And it's a perfect, I say again PERFECT cloak.
Soooo that being the case, why would the federation ever have access to such a cloaking device? Even in canon, they never were able to get their hands on a klingon cloaking device. So there is no reason as to why the feds would ever have one. And if you gave the defiant the battle cloak, that would be broken. Seriously broken. The only godsend is you can burst the defiant down if it makes a mistake. But that would have to be a serious mistake. If you gave the ship a battle cloak, it would be able to get away even more easily.
But think about it. This ship is almost perfect. It's fast, crazy powerful, very very VERY maneuverable, and can be quite tanky as is. Allow me to give you its exact stats.
Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit
Hull Points: 33,000
Shield Modifier: 0.9
Fore Weapons: 4 (DHC enabled)
Rear Weapons: 3
Crew: 50
BOff Setup: Ensign Tactical, LtCmdr Tactical, Cmdr Tactical, Lt. Engineering, Lt. Science
Device Slots: 2
Console Setup: 5 Tactical, 3 Engineering, 2 Science
Base Turn Rate: 17
+15 Bonus Power to Weapons
*Additional Notes:
This ship can use the Universal Cloaking Module acquired from the Tactical Escort Retrofit
Due to the small size of the sprite, this ships actual turn rate is much higher
Looking at the above statistics, the only weakness I see is the non-universal ensign, which isn't too big of a problem. But that ship has massive firepower capability, the ability to cloak already, GREAT turn rate and durability. Does ANYTHING listed above say "Give me a battle-cloak?" I asked the OP a question, and I'll ask you the same thing.
What are you smoking? Cuz I want some to get rid of any semblance of sanity I have left.
As for the Dreadnaught? What? Where did that come from? This is a Defiant thread.
It just gives it more survivability. Same as a bop.
Why wouldn't the federation have access to such tech? Are you forgetting that phasing cloak they were developing in secret?
You are ranting stats that are totally unnecessary to the point of this thread. :rolleyes:
A battle cloak wouldn't change the defiants stats in any way.
Alpha strikes would still be the same as they are now.
Maybe you should stop smoking so much coz its affecting your ability to see reason.
Why should a defiant have a battle cloak? How will this level the playing field? What benefits will it give and how will it balance PvP?
When cloaking in the middle of a fight, your shields go down. It makes you even more vulnerable until the cloak is fully in place.
I've died many times trying to escape with my battle cloak. I might have survived had I stayed uncloaked and just tried to keep my shields up.
(Which is what we do now with the defiant)
Show me HOW it changes the ships stats to have a battle cloak instead of the normal one it has now.
I'm really not seeing your lint of view here.
NO!!!
First off, I have the Defiant so it's not that I wouldn't want this for the fact that I don't have battle cloak on Fed.
But, KDF has only two things better about them than Fed: KHG ground set bonus, and ships.
Take those away, and KDF has nothing over Fed.
...other than Ferasans, of course.
CO noob and STO veteran.
Secondly, the battle cloak changes combat completely for the defiant. Current meta is you alpha strike and hope to destroy them. If you fail, you beat them down, but they know where you are and can counter attack/destroy you. If you give the defiant a battle-cloak, they can re-cloak and then attack again, from a different angle with another 15% attack bonus. Basically you will turn the defiant into a tougher, more heavily armed and nastier version of a BoP. Again, something unique to the KDF.
Lastly, the defiant doesn't need it. How does it affect stats? It doesn't directly affect them. There is no change at all to its actual stats. But it changes how those stats can be used. It changes game-play for the ship. Anyone you ask will tell you that the Fleet Defiant is second only to the bug when it comes to sheer power of that ship class (or if they have only fought those weakling slime npcs, they will say it's the MOST powerful escort). With stats like that, you don't need the battle-cloak, and again, with stats like that, you give them a battle-cloak and it becomes unstoppable.
I know you escort pilots like your ships, and they are already VERY powerful, arguably more so than any other ship class, especially fed escorts (raptors still have that turn issue). Add on a cloak and your escort is crazily powerful. Give it the ability to RE-CLOAK?? I don't mean to rant here, but COME ON. That's nuts.
Hegh'ta Heavy Bird Of Prey (not even fleet version)
Hull Points: irrelevant due to ability to stay out of canon arc with ease and then cloak.
Shield Modifier: irrelevant due to ability to stay out of canon arc with ease and then cloak.
Fore Weapons: 4 (DHC enabled)
Rear Weapons: 2
Crew: 100
BOff Setup: All universal. Infinite variation.
Device Slots: 2
Console Setup: 3 Tactical, 3 Engineering, 3 Science
Base Turn Rate: 21
*Additional Notes:
This ship can use the battle cloak without wasting any module slot.
Amazing how none of the klingons here mention that turn rate, yet keep spamming on about a minor shield and hull difference...
Completely irrelevant when you can stay out of the enemy arc with ease... Hell, that's enough turn rate to out-turn some shuttles (without even any turn rate modules)...
Err what? How does the graphics effect the turn rate exactly? I can only assume this must be some typo, or you were drunk at the time of writing this.
Defiant getting a battle cloak - I don't think it would be a bad thing - but it's not going to happen. Cryptic lost the balance plot a long time ago.
Give the defiants a battle cloak and remove the decloak damage bonus. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone - The ludicrus alpha strike and balance.
But if you took away the attack bonus from the decloak on the defiant only, I would find that acceptable.
(and here comes the fed rage).
Oh and one more thing, you can stay out of cannon arcs, but guess what, beam arrays can still frag you.
Fair enough. This affects cannon arcs but only for an extra moment.
I would suggest that defiant retro's come with a battle cloak (as above) and the normal defiant comes with the original device (even though I believe the alpha is stupid - how the hell does a cloak increase damage?)
I would also suggest that possibly the Qin (only) could recieve a battle cloak *upgrade module* for complete balance with these changes. This device would probably also need to lower hull strength (and/or shield strength).
If you decloak in the defiant's arc, sure - but that's your own fault. Come in from an angle and they should not be able to get their arc on you to take down your shields in time for beams to finish you off.
I really am not trying to take sides here, but I do believe the defiant's current cloak is a joke at that tier - as is the qin raptor's. I believe that balance could be found however that should suit everyone.
However with your idea, you don't really want to give a tier 3 ship a cloak, since after all, those are 25th century versions of the defiant class, not the actual defiant. In fact, the "original device" was destroyed at chintoka by a breen chel'gret cruiser. The USS Sau Paulo did not have a cloak.
But I say leave it as is, with the Defiant R having a standard cloak, and if you ever give a battle cloak to ANY defiant class, then remove any buffs it gives.
I get you want to make the two factions unique and different from each other.
If that's the case then take away all the cloaks permanently for Feds!
But wait, the galaxy x is from an alt future where they started equipping fed ships with cloaks! Why? Because they were at war with the Klingons!
Sound familiar?
At the end of the day I doubt anything will actually change which makes this whole thread a waste of time
So stop complaining about how much of a bad idea it is to fit the defiant with a battle cloak!
Will be interesting to see if they give the Romulan faction a perfect cloak or not.
There is talk of making them playable in the future.
Well I sometimes use a few beams with subsystem targeting (and cannons on the downed shield) on a defiant just for fun.
Yeah they are 25th centry ships, but not flown at that time. It is not unrealistic to believe that module tech has increased since then - even if the ship design itself is still the same.
I believe the standard cloak is junk (and the buff also), but a bc with removed buffs would be fair.
What didn't that surprise me. :rolleyes:
You can have some kind of particle burst consule to decloak us for 5 sec though.
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You mean when the Feds want to give the Defiant a battlecloak but at the same time say no to a battlecloak on its actual counterpart the Raptor the Klingon players are trying to 1 up the Feds?
How does that worK?
An alternate future where the Klingons completely conquered the Romulans.
Does not sound familiar.
We know.
But it's doubtful they'll get a "perfect cloak" (what does that mean anyway?).
And if you followed several of the couple dozen thread that have come up on this mattr over the last 2 1/2 years you'll know that most of the KDF players want them to have battlecloaks on all their ships.
Because the Romulans are the masters of cloak.
So it's not about keeping the battlecloak a KDF exclusive, it's about giving it to a faction where it makes actual sense.
i am a fed and i dont say that.
Neihter do I say everything "the Klings" supposedly say.
And if we are precise, neither are you a Fed nor am I a Kling because it's all fictional anyway.;)