problem 3. those time shuttles would quite literally be tier 5 ships, being from the 29th century. voyager was very nearly destroyed by one easily. these full sized time ships? each one of them would be impervious to anything from the 25th century, they would be unharmable, and could 1 shot anything. 1 of those ships could solo the 25th century borg collective, and the dominion, at the same time. there is a 4 century difference in tech levels, its indefensible that these are in game at all. partly because of what i mentioned in problem 2, and partly because there is no possible way to suspend your disbelief at what im seeing, that it could ever happen in the canon. its indecency, i know it when i see it.
Didn't Cryptic (or maybe it was CBS) say they wouldn't do the Enterprise-J because it was too big a leap into the future, and they didn't want to go there?
If I recall correctly, the Enterprise-J is a 26th Century starship.
So they skip the 26th Century...for being "too far in the future"....
...but go right to the 29th Century?
Maybe I failed grade school math, but I'm pretty sure the 29th Century is 300 years FURTHER into the future than the 26th Century.
Please, correct me if I made a math fail. :rolleyes:
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
Didn't Cryptic (or maybe it was CBS) say they wouldn't do the Enterprise-J because it was too big a leap into the future, and they didn't want to go there?
No. It was because of the size of the ship. The J is too big to fit into the scale, thus they came up with the idea of the F - a future Enterprise that still fit their game scale.
I've since talked with CBS and we've agreed we are not doing the J because it is just not appropriate as it was envisioned as a player ship that everyone should be flying around in (its just too big as described to be gameplay appropriate).
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
so.. was the explosion in that episode of voyager where got stuck in 20th century earth the random computer guys fault or our fault because we stole all the time ships ?
What ever happened to the Temporal Prime Directive?
1) It's a time of war. Nobody is going to play by the rules. Klingons don't have such limitations so Federation has to put the directive aside if they want to survive.
2) As I recall the series, Relativity came from the future to alter the past. Where was the Temporal Prime Directive then?
problem 1. by going down this path story wise, you are re telling the most hated story lines found in star trek. its convoluted with TRIBBLE pull after TRIBBLE pull that doesnt need to make any sense and are always resolved with the most bs techno babel found in all of trek.
Time travel and alternative realities are one of my favourite episodes.
problem 2. the temporal agents from the 29th century would prevent ALL of this temporal lock box stuff from happening, thats their job. they would tirelessly tamper with the past until this chain of events would not occur. the star trek canon has a built in safe guard against unchecked temporal fan fiction level storyline like this, if only they could beam into cryptic head quarters and hand you a cease and desist notice.
There were times they didn't react. What makes you think they would intervene in case of boxes appearing out of nowhere that one can open with a key bought for a dollar? For crying out loud - it's just a game.
problem 3. those time shuttles would quite literally be tier 5 ships, being from the 29th century. voyager was very nearly destroyed by one easily. these full sized time ships? each one of them would be impervious to anything from the 25th century, they would be unharmable, and could 1 shot anything. 1 of those ships could solo the 25th century borg collective, and the dominion, at the same time. there is a 4 century difference in tech levels, its indefensible that these are in game at all. partly because of what i mentioned in problem 2, and partly because there is no possible way to suspend your disbelief at what im seeing, that it could ever happen in the canon. its indecency, i know it when i see it.
Just a game! Star Trek was without common sense countless times!
No. It was because of the size of the ship. The J is too big to fit into the scale, thus they came up with the idea of the F - a future Enterprise that still fit their game scale.
Ok, well that's my bad.
But then that brings up a variety of other points...
1. People complain about the NX Class, TOS Connie, Miranda, Oberth, Vulcan Science ship for being too "old" to be in the game. This just doesn't compute, since we now have ships that have even been created yet, which are in the game. Won't be created for another 400 years, based on the in-game date.
2. If the Federation were to get their hands on enough time-ships (or the Klingons for that matter) to put them into active service, they'd be so strong as to make all other ships obsolete. So, why aren't we mothballing every ship that isn't from the 29th Century?
3. Will Cryptic now produce only 29th Century designs for the game? It only makes sense, considering that we have other 29th Century ships in game now.
4. The presence of all these time ships, especially in the hands of both factions, would seem to indicate that we are now at "temporal war" with both factions using time ships to alter the past to gain the tactical advantage. Will all future mission content from Cryptic feature this new "Temporal War" they have kicked off?
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
But then that brings up a variety of other points...
1. People complain about the NX Class, TOS Connie, Miranda, Oberth, Vulcan Science ship for being too "old" to be in the game. This just doesn't compute, since we now have ships that have even been created yet, which are in the game. Won't be created for another 400 years, based on the in-game date.
2. If the Federation were to get their hands on enough time-ships (or the Klingons for that matter) to put them into active service, they'd be so strong as to make all other ships obsolete. So, why aren't we mothballing every ship that isn't from the 29th Century?
3. Will Cryptic now produce only 29th Century designs for the game? It only makes sense, considering that we have other 29th Century ships in game now.
4. The presence of all these time ships, especially in the hands of both factions, would seem to indicate that we are now at "temporal war" with both factions using time ships to alter the past to gain the tactical advantage. Will all future mission content from Cryptic feature this new "Temporal War" they have kicked off?
As I said above, ships are about making Trek fanboys happy. They're not about making canon balance sense. My 22nd Century NX blows up Negvars just like my 25th Century Odyssey. I can get my butt kicked by a 23rd Century D7 in my 25th Century Regent just as easily as I can in my 22nd Century D'kyr.
There's no concept of temporal ship balance. There hasn't been since the game introduced TOS Connies at Launch. The ships are in the game to make people geek-out and let them live out their Trek fantasy. They're balanced to their own Tier scale and nothing else. That's really all there is to it.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
1) It's a time of war. Nobody is going to play by the rules. Klingons don't have such limitations so Federation has to put the directive aside if they want to survive.
If this is the case, the entirety of the focus of the game would need to change. Tossing in time travel as a weapon, changes the entire dynamic of war.
For example, the Klingons can now go back in time to alter the outcome of the Organian Peace Treaty, or even prevent it from happening. Starfleet may even cease to exist, because of a war which happened as a result of the interference.
Alternatively, Starfleet could go back to the era of Archer with an armada of 25th Century ships of the line and decimate the Klingon Empire, reducing it to a shell of it's former self, or wiping it out completely.
Additionally, tampering with these events, removes the players (Starfleet and the Klingon Empire) from other historical events, such as the Dominion War, which alters the fate of the entire galaxy.
Or, a Starfleet Captain gets careless, and the Romulans capture a timeship. The Tal Shiar goes back in time and removes the Federation and the Klingon Empire from existence, making them the dominant power in the galaxy, until the Borg show up and wipe them out.
You see the problem here?
In a game like this, you can't just introduce something as RIDICULOUS as time ships, on a mass scale, without major consequences in the story.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
At some point the Federation would join more proactively with the Time war (not to be confused with the Last Great time war) so maybe by the 25th century agents from the 29th, are helping people out form the 25th. Being as the enemies of the Federation are getting help from the future, it would make sense for them to do the same. As for the temporal prime directive that applied to the 24th century. With it being a state of Time war their prime directive would be a lot different than just not interfering.
I don't know... It's all awesome, but it doesn't quite fit. I'll probably overspend on this to theme one character as a future starfleet officer, but that's not the problem...
And it's not that the linkage between ship consoles and Lobi store sets and the timeships will probably create a hideously overpowered (and overpriced) monstrocity the likes of which even STO has never seen before, and which definitively kill off the old "we don't want to turn this into a pay to win game" company line.
I think I just burned out in some weird way. I really like the lockbox, as long as I pretend Ferengi have nothing to do with it and whatnot, and I know I'll probably be rabidly spending on it but I can think of nothing that ever possibly be put in a lockbox again to make me game for round five.
Not the usual rage. Not even mildly annoyed. (And that's really unusual for me.) Just... done.
I'll keep playing. Can't put my finger on it exactly. I just don't feel invested in this game anymore.
Quite a lot of interesting stuff Very interesting, truly
Now with that out of the way, thecosmic1 is correct: in any MMO, not just STO, they're about making the fans happy by pulling in ALL content from their shows, even if it makes no sense in canon. That's their general design, aside from gameplay fun (the latter of which is entirely subjective though).
Frankly, the fact people worry about canon balance when there's no ground for it in the first place is mind-boggling.
And also, people broke the Prime Directive all the time (with or without consequences). What's the Temporal Prime Directive at this time but another easily-ignored law? Fact is, ST captains frequently broke the rules to react to situations... why shouldn't we do the same in-game as well? It's part of the experience
My two cents.
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
A good game let's you become someone, something special. This becoming is the drawing of any game. Having new ships brings little benefit gameplay wise, becoming wise.
Hence, rather than buying the eleventhousandth ship, I create new characters and level them. But after the fifth that became boring too. I appreciate the huge amount of work put into the art and game mechanics of these ships, but since I dont own a single lockbox ship, they being too much trouble to get, this will remain for me at the level of Hollywood news, nice that they are there, but of little concern to me.
Bought this Fleet Scourge Destroyer to realise it is an escort in another skin. Better skin perhaps. Still I dont feel the urge to play either of them. Dilithium, dilithium, I only see purple.
Must grind dilithium for todays fleet project. That after I finished grinding the marks.
Heck, I had to play another game today, to ease up a bit after the work playing STO became.
Whatever we deny or embrace, we belong togheter./ Pat Benatar
1)....There were times they didn't react. What makes you think they would intervene in case of boxes appearing out of nowhere that one can open with a key bought for a dollar? For crying out loud - it's just a game...Just a game! Star Trek was without common sense countless times!
Thank You! Yes! Some REAL common sense!
Look at it this way, peeps and peepettes,It's now, effectively, a Sci-Fi space shooter with it's roots (loosely) in the Trek 'verse. Honestly? A totally "canon" Star Trek game would get pretty boring fairly quick for any serious Sci-Fi fan as Star Trek was as often lame as it was ground breaking and breath-taking. We now have a game where you can fly ships from almost anywhen/anywhere, with a list of races (including player created races) that beggers the imagination (though they're all, basically humanoid... c'mon Cryptic... how about some non-humanoid types?). In many respects your limits are simply your own imagination. My VA who dresses in a style intended, intentionally, to look as much like a WWII fighter pilot as I can achieve fights, effectively, alongside characters in the most futuristic looking armor/space suits. What's not to LOVE??
True, in keeping with the few other really good Sci-Fi/Space based games out there it would be grand if we could truly play Merc/Privateer type characters and build shipping/warship/mercantile empires, etc. But we can get fairly close to that. We have the Fleets and now Starbases (and broad hints from Cryptic that the whole Fleet Starbase thing will undergo tremendous expansion in the coming years). So far I can't find anything to seriously complain about and SO MUCH to love!
EXCEPT... I want my T5 TOS CONNIE!!!... I have the K'Tinga! Just need the TOS Connie! Other than that, though... ROFL
*STO*Its mission: To destroy strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations... and then kill them, to boldly annihilate what no one has annihilated before!
I haven't been playing the game for months, but I check the main website regularly, hoping for the introduction of more story content... And I see this?
:eek:
...Lock boxes are one thing. Run your lottery, make your money. Fine. Really, I'm ok with it. People want to be silly and spend zillions of dollars for the uber-tiny chance at some chase-ship... I'm ok with that. Heck, I had even plopped down $5-10 a couple times on the first two lock boxes. Though if you REALLY want my money, make some good stories and worthwhile game play, the ability to buy ships directly from the C-Store, and I'll do it it. I used to... There was once a time I bought everything you ever released from the C-Store. I spend thousands of dollars (not an exaggeration) on this game back in the first two years... But nothing since... No point. Nothing to play besides grind.
Anyway...
I love the fact that the Lobi store's goodies will remain so we can possibly save up for the items. That's a nice change. I only wish the costume unlocks were account-wide as they are in similar stores in Champions Online (I'm thinking of the Drifter Store as being the Lobi counter-part, for those familiar. But really, in CO, all Costume parts are account-unlocks whether you buy them from the Recognition store (an in-game "drop" or "mission" currency, similar to STO's old marks/badges) or the Questionite Store (CO's version of Dilithium).)
But you guys really are F'ing with the story of Star Trek. You're blasting the game's continuity right out of the water and letting the worms outta the tube and the toothpaste outta the can. 29th Century Ships being "regularlly available" in the 25th Century? Crazy. Stupid.
All the many other interesting things to explore in Star Trek and you guys bring TimeTravel to the forefront? And I don't mean as a "controlled" aspect of the story or mission (like Past Imperfect), but something the everyday player can play with every day. I mean really?!? :rolleyes:
Meh. >shrugs< >shakes head< Whatever...
It's funny. The longer I wait for something good/interesting to come along, the easier I find it is to stay away.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
There won't be an power creep. You'll find that the 29th century ships aren't any tougher then any other T5 ships in the game. They'll simply have a special console ability all their own. They'll die just as fast or slow as a Regent, Recluse, Odyssey, or anything else.
"Story" power creep.
The fact that these ships won't be more powerful (being from the future) than what we've got in the 25th Century already muddles the whole thing, but I was talking about the ante being upped since we're now getting into more Time Travel oriented stuff. Where do you go after Time Travel?
With that in mind, it looks to me like we may even be heading into even more dangerous waters with Mirror Time Travel ships being a thing. The levels of silly we're moving into here are starting to become astounding.
Quite a lot of interesting stuff Very interesting, truly
Now with that out of the way, thecosmic1 is correct: in any MMO, not just STO, they're about making the fans happy by pulling in ALL content from their shows, even if it makes no sense in canon. That's their general design, aside from gameplay fun (the latter of which is entirely subjective though).
Frankly, the fact people worry about canon balance when there's no ground for it in the first place is mind-boggling.
And also, people broke the Prime Directive all the time (with or without consequences). What's the Temporal Prime Directive at this time but another easily-ignored law? Fact is, ST captains frequently broke the rules to react to situations... why shouldn't we do the same in-game as well? It's part of the experience
My two cents.
Well, if that's the new company line...
Then I am hereby officially requesting from the Devs a TOS Constitution, which levels with my character.
If we're gonna have 29th Century ships, then having TOS era ships is not a problem, and they should be usable for the ENTIRETY of the game, not just the first 10+ levels.
I'd also like to request the rare TOS era Miranda, as featured in the "Vanguard" series. Also scalable with my character.
If we're gonna open this Pandora's box, we better be ready to open ALL of them.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
If this is the case, the entirety of the focus of the game would need to change. Tossing in time travel as a weapon, changes the entire dynamic of war.
For example, the Klingons can now go back in time to alter the outcome of the Organian Peace Treaty, or even prevent it from happening. Starfleet may even cease to exist, because of a war which happened as a result of the interference.
Alternatively, Starfleet could go back to the era of Archer with an armada of 25th Century ships of the line and decimate the Klingon Empire, reducing it to a shell of it's former self, or wiping it out completely.
Additionally, tampering with these events, removes the players (Starfleet and the Klingon Empire) from other historical events, such as the Dominion War, which alters the fate of the entire galaxy.
Or, a Starfleet Captain gets careless, and the Romulans capture a timeship. The Tal Shiar goes back in time and removes the Federation and the Klingon Empire from existence, making them the dominant power in the galaxy, until the Borg show up and wipe them out.
You see the problem here?
In a game like this, you can't just introduce something as RIDICULOUS as time ships, on a mass scale, without major consequences in the story.
If you play the devidian mission as a KDF, you can ask the guy why don't we go back and wipe out The Federation..and the guy says we can't because that would change certain events that have to happen.
example dominion war: No Federation, no Klingon Empire, dominion rules all. So i don't see the KDF going back to wipe them out, or never having the alliance at all.
Also, if a Romulan went back in time, wipe out the FED's and KDF, and the borg come and take out the Romulans than, the guy would never had the technology
to go back in time in the first place, or maybe he did... or no maybe not MY HEAD HURTS
1) It's a time of war. Nobody is going to play by the rules. Klingons don't have such limitations so Federation has to put the directive aside if they want to survive.
2) As I recall the series, Relativity came from the future to alter the past. Where was the Temporal Prime Directive then?
Wrong on 2 counts:
1. The Federation and KDF of the 25th Century may be in a "time of war", but who's to say that the same remains true for the Federation and KDF equivalents of the 29th Century (400 years later) ? According to canon, 29th Century "Temporal Agents" would be actively monitoring the timeline for any undue influence or alterations to the timeline. As soon as a Wells Class ship appears in the 25th Century, the Temporal Agents would notice it as a "ripple" in the timeline, and take steps to prevent it's occurance.
2. Points to #1. And in the episode in question, the Relativity REMAINED in the 29th Century. They sent a couple of Temporal Agents into the past to retrieve Seven of Nine, and use her (and her knowledge of Voyager and it's crew), to fix the timeline. If you saw the episode, you may recall that the timeline was being altered by an individual who shouldn't even exist in the 24th Century: Braxton. Or more precisely, a "future, temporal-psychosis induced" Braxton. He figured, obliterating Voyager from the timeline, would prevent any of the temporal incursions that Voyager caused, from ever happening, thus preventing his eventual temporal psychosis.
So yes, the 29th Century agents interferred in events of the past, but only to such a degree as to FIX the timeline. They didn't send their ship into the past, and let crews of the 24th Century Starfleet, pilot their ship.
The Aeon Class (shuttle) DID travel back to the 24th Century (and briefly to the 20th Century). That version of Braxton believed Voyager caused the future destruction of the "Sol" system (a ship from the past, which didn't belong in the 29th Century). He believed destroying Voyager, would "fix" the timeline.
sooo.... if we get that Wells Class ship, do we still have to fly around that Sun in the Devidian Series mission or can we just activate the Flux Compensator power and go there directly with 88 mph ?
Problem is theres very few canon ships left to make so they have to look elsewhere, for me they should have looked elsewhere as it does not make sense.
The rest of the goodies in the box looks quite nice.
The Andorian ship coming out at the end of the year sounds interesting - would have been better for a lock box (Maybe it will be one)
If you play the devidian mission as a KDF, you can ask the guy why don't we go back and wipe out The Federation..and the guy says we can't because that would change certain events that have to happen.
example dominion war: No Federation, no Klingon Empire, dominion rules all. So i don't see the KDF going back to wipe them out, or never having the alliance at all.
Also, if a Romulan went back in time, wipe out the FED's and KDF, and the borg come and take out the Romulans than, the guy would never had the technology
to go back in time in the first place, or maybe he did... or no maybe not MY HEAD HURTS
It's time travel it's not suppose to make sense.
The truth is in some timelines the Borg probably did succeed at First Contact, and someone from the KDF probably did go back in time and wipe out the Federation, and so on. If you follow the theory that every time something in the past changes it simply creates a new branch of time - which is where the JJ-verse exists - then clearly any number of things probably did happen. This just happens to be STO's branch of time, and they're dictating the direction that branch will take.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
1) It's a time of war. Nobody is going to play by the rules. Klingons don't have such limitations so Federation has to put the directive aside if they want to survive.
2) As I recall the series, Relativity came from the future to alter the past. Where was the Temporal Prime Directive then?!
1) Federation doesn't work like that and never will.
2) The Relativity never traveled back in Time, instead they transported 7 of 9 through time and space.
Quite a lot of interesting stuff Very interesting, truly
Now with that out of the way, thecosmic1 is correct: in any MMO, not just STO, they're about making the fans happy by pulling in ALL content from their shows, even if it makes no sense in canon. That's their general design, aside from gameplay fun (the latter of which is entirely subjective though).
They couldve just added a mission where you encounter a Relativity-class timeship and recruited to prevent the timeline from being corrupted.
And also, people broke the Prime Directive all the time (with or without consequences). What's the Temporal Prime Directive at this time but another easily-ignored law? Fact is, ST captains frequently broke the rules to react to situations... why shouldn't we do the same in-game as well? It's part of the experience
My two cents.
This isn't Kirk bringing back Humpback Whales or the Doctor's Mobile Emitter, we are talking hundreds of 29th Century timeships being sold as used cars in the early 25th Century! :eek:
so.. was the explosion in that episode of voyager where got stuck in 20th century earth the random computer guys fault or our fault because we stole all the time ships ?
Nah, it's Janeway's fault for using the Timeline for tissue paper.
Now I'm eagerly waiting to see the stats of the sets and ships. Let's see if the devs can make the special consoles and sets usefull but not the ultimate build to have with the lockbox ship + lobi ship + lobi set consoles. Lockbox ships are currently pay to win, and I don't really like that aspect of the lockboxes but let's see if they are able not to kill any kind of balance in game for the sake of a few more sales.
As I have said in other threads about this subject, nothing is STO is about canon balance. We're playing in a game where a TOS-era D7 can destroy a Sovereign - a D7 could not even scratch a Sovereign in canon. We're talking about a game where 22nd Century NXs sit in orbit around Sol next to 25th Century Odysseys - and between them are sitting 23rd Century TOS Connies, Mirandas, and Oberths.
The game's about making Trek fanboys happy. It's not about making canon sense. If it were none of the traditional ships would be in this game. Period.
They should have chosen an earlier timeline then, don't you think? Pleases the ship geeks, the canon soldiers, and your average fanboys all at the same time while still giving themselves some wiggle room to develop new ships.
Instead, they billed this game as the extension of the prime universe. What we got was a casino with flashy lights and starships displayed on spinning platforms that you have a chance to gamble at winning...
So we get the Wells Class to STO after all.
A ship from the 29th century... i'm ok with that.
But where are the people raging when some of us want to give the Galaxy Class a bit more Firepower?
Since the devs don't care for canon, believeability or even consistency i think it's ok if we also get a T5 Constitution, Miranda and Constellation (yeah, why not the NX, at least these ships look better than ANYTHING cryptic has ever done) with the BOFF & Console layout of a Star Cruiser and a Galaxy class with the BOFF & console layout of the Regent class.
With the introduction of the Wells Class, STO has finally reached the level where i just can't take it for serious anymore.
Im a bit disappointed about the mirror ships this time, i was hoping to get a Mirror Galaxy Class instead of a DSSV, RSV and a Qin.
I don't think they will be more popular than the Mirror Assault Cruiser and Mirror Star Cruiser. Both ships aren't nearly a iconic as a cruiser ship type.
Althrough i probably will get a Mirror DSSV (if it has the BOFF and Console Layout of STO RSV.). I just find the DSSV much cooler looking than the RSV, but thats just my personal taste.
Sorry if anything i wrote has been discussed already.
Thank you for reading.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Comments
Didn't Cryptic (or maybe it was CBS) say they wouldn't do the Enterprise-J because it was too big a leap into the future, and they didn't want to go there?
If I recall correctly, the Enterprise-J is a 26th Century starship.
So they skip the 26th Century...for being "too far in the future"....
...but go right to the 29th Century?
Maybe I failed grade school math, but I'm pretty sure the 29th Century is 300 years FURTHER into the future than the 26th Century.
Please, correct me if I made a math fail. :rolleyes:
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
Bugs ships by themselves might still be halfway rare, any other ship type is as common as dirt by now.
If you count them all together now, I suspect they might already have reached an equilibrium with normal Fed/KDF ships among the core playerbase.
If every player had the funds, would anyone still fly faction/era appropriate ships at all?
Is it time to mothball Starfleet?
*Pulls out calculator*
*Brings up calculator built into computer*
*types problem in on Google*
*Uses mental math*
26th century + 300 years = 29th century. But I could be wrong.
Lock box ships are mainly useful for the coolness. they aren't really much better.
My character Tsin'xing
2) As I recall the series, Relativity came from the future to alter the past. Where was the Temporal Prime Directive then?
Time travel and alternative realities are one of my favourite episodes.
There were times they didn't react. What makes you think they would intervene in case of boxes appearing out of nowhere that one can open with a key bought for a dollar? For crying out loud - it's just a game.
Just a game! Star Trek was without common sense countless times!
Ok, well that's my bad.
But then that brings up a variety of other points...
1. People complain about the NX Class, TOS Connie, Miranda, Oberth, Vulcan Science ship for being too "old" to be in the game. This just doesn't compute, since we now have ships that have even been created yet, which are in the game. Won't be created for another 400 years, based on the in-game date.
2. If the Federation were to get their hands on enough time-ships (or the Klingons for that matter) to put them into active service, they'd be so strong as to make all other ships obsolete. So, why aren't we mothballing every ship that isn't from the 29th Century?
3. Will Cryptic now produce only 29th Century designs for the game? It only makes sense, considering that we have other 29th Century ships in game now.
4. The presence of all these time ships, especially in the hands of both factions, would seem to indicate that we are now at "temporal war" with both factions using time ships to alter the past to gain the tactical advantage. Will all future mission content from Cryptic feature this new "Temporal War" they have kicked off?
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
There's no concept of temporal ship balance. There hasn't been since the game introduced TOS Connies at Launch. The ships are in the game to make people geek-out and let them live out their Trek fantasy. They're balanced to their own Tier scale and nothing else. That's really all there is to it.
If this is the case, the entirety of the focus of the game would need to change. Tossing in time travel as a weapon, changes the entire dynamic of war.
For example, the Klingons can now go back in time to alter the outcome of the Organian Peace Treaty, or even prevent it from happening. Starfleet may even cease to exist, because of a war which happened as a result of the interference.
Alternatively, Starfleet could go back to the era of Archer with an armada of 25th Century ships of the line and decimate the Klingon Empire, reducing it to a shell of it's former self, or wiping it out completely.
Additionally, tampering with these events, removes the players (Starfleet and the Klingon Empire) from other historical events, such as the Dominion War, which alters the fate of the entire galaxy.
Or, a Starfleet Captain gets careless, and the Romulans capture a timeship. The Tal Shiar goes back in time and removes the Federation and the Klingon Empire from existence, making them the dominant power in the galaxy, until the Borg show up and wipe them out.
You see the problem here?
In a game like this, you can't just introduce something as RIDICULOUS as time ships, on a mass scale, without major consequences in the story.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
And it's not that the linkage between ship consoles and Lobi store sets and the timeships will probably create a hideously overpowered (and overpriced) monstrocity the likes of which even STO has never seen before, and which definitively kill off the old "we don't want to turn this into a pay to win game" company line.
I think I just burned out in some weird way. I really like the lockbox, as long as I pretend Ferengi have nothing to do with it and whatnot, and I know I'll probably be rabidly spending on it but I can think of nothing that ever possibly be put in a lockbox again to make me game for round five.
Not the usual rage. Not even mildly annoyed. (And that's really unusual for me.) Just... done.
I'll keep playing. Can't put my finger on it exactly. I just don't feel invested in this game anymore.
Now with that out of the way, thecosmic1 is correct: in any MMO, not just STO, they're about making the fans happy by pulling in ALL content from their shows, even if it makes no sense in canon. That's their general design, aside from gameplay fun (the latter of which is entirely subjective though).
Frankly, the fact people worry about canon balance when there's no ground for it in the first place is mind-boggling.
And also, people broke the Prime Directive all the time (with or without consequences). What's the Temporal Prime Directive at this time but another easily-ignored law? Fact is, ST captains frequently broke the rules to react to situations... why shouldn't we do the same in-game as well? It's part of the experience
My two cents.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Hence, rather than buying the eleventhousandth ship, I create new characters and level them. But after the fifth that became boring too. I appreciate the huge amount of work put into the art and game mechanics of these ships, but since I dont own a single lockbox ship, they being too much trouble to get, this will remain for me at the level of Hollywood news, nice that they are there, but of little concern to me.
Bought this Fleet Scourge Destroyer to realise it is an escort in another skin. Better skin perhaps. Still I dont feel the urge to play either of them. Dilithium, dilithium, I only see purple.
Must grind dilithium for todays fleet project. That after I finished grinding the marks.
Heck, I had to play another game today, to ease up a bit after the work playing STO became.
Thank You! Yes! Some REAL common sense!
Look at it this way, peeps and peepettes,It's now, effectively, a Sci-Fi space shooter with it's roots (loosely) in the Trek 'verse. Honestly? A totally "canon" Star Trek game would get pretty boring fairly quick for any serious Sci-Fi fan as Star Trek was as often lame as it was ground breaking and breath-taking. We now have a game where you can fly ships from almost anywhen/anywhere, with a list of races (including player created races) that beggers the imagination (though they're all, basically humanoid... c'mon Cryptic... how about some non-humanoid types?). In many respects your limits are simply your own imagination. My VA who dresses in a style intended, intentionally, to look as much like a WWII fighter pilot as I can achieve fights, effectively, alongside characters in the most futuristic looking armor/space suits. What's not to LOVE??
True, in keeping with the few other really good Sci-Fi/Space based games out there it would be grand if we could truly play Merc/Privateer type characters and build shipping/warship/mercantile empires, etc. But we can get fairly close to that. We have the Fleets and now Starbases (and broad hints from Cryptic that the whole Fleet Starbase thing will undergo tremendous expansion in the coming years). So far I can't find anything to seriously complain about and SO MUCH to love!
EXCEPT... I want my T5 TOS CONNIE!!!... I have the K'Tinga! Just need the TOS Connie! Other than that, though... ROFL
:eek:
...Lock boxes are one thing. Run your lottery, make your money. Fine. Really, I'm ok with it. People want to be silly and spend zillions of dollars for the uber-tiny chance at some chase-ship... I'm ok with that. Heck, I had even plopped down $5-10 a couple times on the first two lock boxes. Though if you REALLY want my money, make some good stories and worthwhile game play, the ability to buy ships directly from the C-Store, and I'll do it it. I used to... There was once a time I bought everything you ever released from the C-Store. I spend thousands of dollars (not an exaggeration) on this game back in the first two years... But nothing since... No point. Nothing to play besides grind.
Anyway...
I love the fact that the Lobi store's goodies will remain so we can possibly save up for the items. That's a nice change. I only wish the costume unlocks were account-wide as they are in similar stores in Champions Online (I'm thinking of the Drifter Store as being the Lobi counter-part, for those familiar. But really, in CO, all Costume parts are account-unlocks whether you buy them from the Recognition store (an in-game "drop" or "mission" currency, similar to STO's old marks/badges) or the Questionite Store (CO's version of Dilithium).)
But you guys really are F'ing with the story of Star Trek. You're blasting the game's continuity right out of the water and letting the worms outta the tube and the toothpaste outta the can. 29th Century Ships being "regularlly available" in the 25th Century? Crazy. Stupid.
All the many other interesting things to explore in Star Trek and you guys bring TimeTravel to the forefront? And I don't mean as a "controlled" aspect of the story or mission (like Past Imperfect), but something the everyday player can play with every day. I mean really?!? :rolleyes:
Meh. >shrugs< >shakes head< Whatever...
It's funny. The longer I wait for something good/interesting to come along, the easier I find it is to stay away.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
"Story" power creep.
The fact that these ships won't be more powerful (being from the future) than what we've got in the 25th Century already muddles the whole thing, but I was talking about the ante being upped since we're now getting into more Time Travel oriented stuff. Where do you go after Time Travel?
With that in mind, it looks to me like we may even be heading into even more dangerous waters with Mirror Time Travel ships being a thing. The levels of silly we're moving into here are starting to become astounding.
Well, if that's the new company line...
Then I am hereby officially requesting from the Devs a TOS Constitution, which levels with my character.
If we're gonna have 29th Century ships, then having TOS era ships is not a problem, and they should be usable for the ENTIRETY of the game, not just the first 10+ levels.
I'd also like to request the rare TOS era Miranda, as featured in the "Vanguard" series. Also scalable with my character.
If we're gonna open this Pandora's box, we better be ready to open ALL of them.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
If you play the devidian mission as a KDF, you can ask the guy why don't we go back and wipe out The Federation..and the guy says we can't because that would change certain events that have to happen.
example dominion war: No Federation, no Klingon Empire, dominion rules all. So i don't see the KDF going back to wipe them out, or never having the alliance at all.
Also, if a Romulan went back in time, wipe out the FED's and KDF, and the borg come and take out the Romulans than, the guy would never had the technology
to go back in time in the first place, or maybe he did... or no maybe not MY HEAD HURTS
It's time travel it's not suppose to make sense.
Wrong on 2 counts:
1. The Federation and KDF of the 25th Century may be in a "time of war", but who's to say that the same remains true for the Federation and KDF equivalents of the 29th Century (400 years later) ? According to canon, 29th Century "Temporal Agents" would be actively monitoring the timeline for any undue influence or alterations to the timeline. As soon as a Wells Class ship appears in the 25th Century, the Temporal Agents would notice it as a "ripple" in the timeline, and take steps to prevent it's occurance.
2. Points to #1. And in the episode in question, the Relativity REMAINED in the 29th Century. They sent a couple of Temporal Agents into the past to retrieve Seven of Nine, and use her (and her knowledge of Voyager and it's crew), to fix the timeline. If you saw the episode, you may recall that the timeline was being altered by an individual who shouldn't even exist in the 24th Century: Braxton. Or more precisely, a "future, temporal-psychosis induced" Braxton. He figured, obliterating Voyager from the timeline, would prevent any of the temporal incursions that Voyager caused, from ever happening, thus preventing his eventual temporal psychosis.
So yes, the 29th Century agents interferred in events of the past, but only to such a degree as to FIX the timeline. They didn't send their ship into the past, and let crews of the 24th Century Starfleet, pilot their ship.
The Aeon Class (shuttle) DID travel back to the 24th Century (and briefly to the 20th Century). That version of Braxton believed Voyager caused the future destruction of the "Sol" system (a ship from the past, which didn't belong in the 29th Century). He believed destroying Voyager, would "fix" the timeline.
The rest of the goodies in the box looks quite nice.
The Andorian ship coming out at the end of the year sounds interesting - would have been better for a lock box (Maybe it will be one)
1) Federation doesn't work like that and never will.
2) The Relativity never traveled back in Time, instead they transported 7 of 9 through time and space.
They couldve just added a mission where you encounter a Relativity-class timeship and recruited to prevent the timeline from being corrupted.
This isn't Kirk bringing back Humpback Whales or the Doctor's Mobile Emitter, we are talking hundreds of 29th Century timeships being sold as used cars in the early 25th Century! :eek:
Are you kidding me? "Few canon ships left"?
There is at least a dozen more canonical ships yet to be added on the Federation side. And the two canonical ships on the KDF side.
My character Tsin'xing
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
They should have chosen an earlier timeline then, don't you think? Pleases the ship geeks, the canon soldiers, and your average fanboys all at the same time while still giving themselves some wiggle room to develop new ships.
Instead, they billed this game as the extension of the prime universe. What we got was a casino with flashy lights and starships displayed on spinning platforms that you have a chance to gamble at winning...
A ship from the 29th century... i'm ok with that.
But where are the people raging when some of us want to give the Galaxy Class a bit more Firepower?
Since the devs don't care for canon, believeability or even consistency i think it's ok if we also get a T5 Constitution, Miranda and Constellation (yeah, why not the NX, at least these ships look better than ANYTHING cryptic has ever done) with the BOFF & Console layout of a Star Cruiser and a Galaxy class with the BOFF & console layout of the Regent class.
With the introduction of the Wells Class, STO has finally reached the level where i just can't take it for serious anymore.
Im a bit disappointed about the mirror ships this time, i was hoping to get a Mirror Galaxy Class instead of a DSSV, RSV and a Qin.
I don't think they will be more popular than the Mirror Assault Cruiser and Mirror Star Cruiser. Both ships aren't nearly a iconic as a cruiser ship type.
Althrough i probably will get a Mirror DSSV (if it has the BOFF and Console Layout of STO RSV.). I just find the DSSV much cooler looking than the RSV, but thats just my personal taste.
Sorry if anything i wrote has been discussed already.
Thank you for reading.