Well, guess if you die in a timeship, you can say it's a time loop. :rolleyes:
The canon argument is simple. From TOS to Enterprise, there was one basic rule regarding time travel in Star Trek - DON'T MESS UP THE PAST!
This is why time travel was always a delicate matter in not pulling a JJ in trashing the timeline. They would sneek around and try not to change the past and get back to their time. But now, we have 29th Century Timeships, showing up 400 years in the past to aid in a war in the open. And actually used by 25th Cenutry captains. Do you really think this would happen in Star Trek? Could you imagine if we travelled 400 years into the past and we gave Native Americans a Nuclear Bomb?
This lockbox proves to why many Trekkers and Trekkies don't like STO, because Cryptic completely disregards the IP for the sake of $$$. So now we are going to have hundreds of 29th Century ships flying around and there is not a thing we can do.
I was thinking of something to say and this post is pretty much how i feel about this new lockbox so i will quote it for the win
I should also add im not really much of a canon junkie and have overlooked a lot of the mess that cryptic has done with STO but for me playable timeships are just way too far.
For one the temporal prime directive/accords would not allow 25th century captains to command 29th century ships and the 29th or 31st century federation/starfleet would have put a stop to it before it happened. Also the ships should be vastly overpowered compared to everything else, like a big floating i win button.
There is just no way these ships should be playable, and any trek fan with the slightest of love for anything trek should be against them being playable ships as they make no sense whatsoever for being ingame.
I think its time for me to consider if i even want to play this game anymore as its obvious either cryptic have no clue about star trek or just dont care about makeing a good game anymore.
I have to limit my keys this time but the mirror universe ships are needed to add to my MU collection so may see how there price is on the exchange and also may sell my Star cruiser I got from the last lockbox as I have 3 ready to sell and was keeping them to see if the exchange price upped a bit. This may be the time I'm looking for
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
For a bunch of trek fans crying murder of canon, they sure are not acting like true Star Fleet officers.
I mean really, if everyone just not worry what the person next to them was driving or flying things would seem more peaceful. Especially when they keep saying that they are not getting the ship, so then whats the problem?
I'm pretty sure if the ships were not in lockboxes no one will scream as much...I mean people will cry fowl but not as much.
So basically if you do happen to win one of these or buy one out of the exchange you'll have your 1-3 days of it before you put it on your trophy wall of vanilla ships and then go back to what you were using before.
Oh as far as the "crying" you aren't getting the picture. I could go name all the new federation ships in the c-store as for this its a lockbox ship so they are hoping a few kdf players drop in thousands of dollars for it. Instead of having product A, selling Product A, and making their money in a legit fashion.
As another poster said a few pages back, you may as well just put the Millenium Falcon in a lockbox since that appeared, for a fraction of a second, in first contact. Or why not just go all out and put the Death Star in one? I'm sure that some absurd 'reasoning' involving Tholian space and the always-everywhere, finding everything first, Ferengi could be made up, and if it looks cool surely it HAS to be in STO.
If they can get the rights to it, sure why not I mean we got lightsabers last year, and no one cried canon foul...but then again those were free, so I'm sure people did not mind as much.
As another poster said a few pages back, you may as well just put the Millenium Falcon in a lockbox since that appeared, for a fraction of a second, in first contact. Or why not just go all out and put the Death Star in one? I'm sure that some absurd 'reasoning' involving Tholian space and the always-everywhere, finding everything first, Ferengi could be made up, and if it looks cool surely it HAS to be in STO.
If you go frame by frame on Star Trek 2009, just a few seconds before the Enterprise see's the Narada at Vulcan, R2-D2 flys by the screen on Sulu's side...
iLike this ship like every ST fan,but this ship is not place in ST:O,
its violating everything that Star Trek is. . .what is next Ent-J?
OK,put lockboxs i do not care. . .i well not buy it and that is it (i well not gamble whit my money,not on this game,on any game. . .ST(O) is not Casino.)
Perfect World have me big Disappointed but Cryptic and CBS too because they allowed this NON ST act. . .
I cannot believe how much time effort amd money
Sto has put into this .
I've read the fan forums here and I don't remember
Fans asking for this stuff
So STO knows what it's customers want even
Though those same customers have already
Placed there order for what they want.
It's like going out to eat and ordering a steak
But they bring you baked chicken.
I hope you make money STO but I am sure
None of it will be mine on this venture
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I never opened a lockbox, so frankly I do not care about this all that much. As well as about hordes of Wells timeships around ESD.
After all you already can see a 22 century Vulcan cruiser that's assimilated by Borg and captained by Federation science officer. Or Galaxy-X which was rebuild USS Enterprise D on the order of admiral Riker in fantasy timeline created by Q. Or ships from spider-like civilisation that was probably on the level on 24th century Feds in 22 century that are now captured and rebuild completely (said civilisation is living in totally different environment then humanoids) only so that few captains may pilot it.
Who cares about some 29th century ship in this mix?
What I do care is the fact that with the ships and most likely consoles/weapons the PvP got the kick in the groin. And they can remove all those scraps and drops of fun that were left in STO for me. Will see, but most probably it will be good-bye time when those ships hit queues.
All the arguments about canon aside, I still really dislike the lockbox concept. I've never bought a key, and I don't ever plan to, unless Cryptic takes a page out of ANet's book and puts lockbox keys on the loot tables (I'm not holding my breath there). Every single lockbox I've gotten has been deleted, as right now, they're completely useless to me. Heck, I'd even be happy if Cryptic tossed something into the game so I could turn in a stack of lockboxes once a day for some EC or dilithium or DXP or something. (And no, tossing lockboxes on the Exchange for two or three EC each doesn't count.)
Unless it is intentional. We don't know what future these ships are from, and what the intent in letting them loose on the 25th century is. Maybe there are more important concerns than the temporal prime directive, or maybe the whole idea behind the temporal prime directive has been proven wrong or has just been abandoned. Or it could be a very large-scale predestination paradox.
Also, what if 29th century Starfleet is too busy repairing all the other damage done by time-travelling Tholians?
Not to mention the mirror universe versions.
There are more occasions of time travel in the canon where future agents didn't intervene than where they did. There are obviously breaches of the temporal directive that are supposed to happen.
omfg i really hope they only named "sience" ship and are good for tactics, everytime this stupid boxes contain sience ships, cruisers, and damn shuttles plz give us tactic characters some usefull ship like the jem hadar at christmas -.-
Fergengi ship, cardasian ship, thalon ship.....you only see them a few days and then they disapear in a dark deep hangar because they are all TRIBBLE
ultimately, we don't know the whys and wherefore of how these timeships have managed to come back to the 25th centurry save that Tholians - who have always had a rep for time and dimensional related shenanigans- are involved somehow.
Maybe it was only one ship sent (per faction) but that temporal 'looping' has spun it off into multiple temporal clones of itself, which have been found, and are being used.
as to " but a 29th century Tomeship should be able to blast the snot out of a 25th century one..."
Maybe a 29th Century Ship SHOULD be able to blast the snot out of a 25th century one...but can't, and that's part of why they were sent back? Maybe due to the massive conflicts AND all the outside interference by various parties, ST:0's 25th Century has advanced farther and faster than it should have done? Perhaps that's what was being investigated in the first place?
Maybe the 29th century Temporal agencies haven't been able to put right the alterations in the timeline because they can't know what the cause was, hence sending investigators; but maybe it was partly that act that caused the whole thing?
We could really do with a story seaon or feaured episode arc to go along with this to at least put some kind of face on all of this.
Your absolutely right I do have free will and I used it to express an opinion so deal with it
I am dealing with it quite well. However I am still curious: if you are so bothered by reading people complain, why do you choose to read it? You are willingly doing something you admit bothers you, so you have only yourself to blame for that. And on top of that, you are complaining about other people complaining, making you guilty of the same thing you are complaining about other people doing.
I've been waiting for these ships for a long time. Although, it wasn't supposed to be in a lockbox. It would've been a 1000 day vet reward, because there won't be as much people piloting such advanced ships. It ruins the IP regardless, why use the Wells class if future Starfleet will attempt to remove it? The Klingon Empire wouldn't be as concerned, but it might be possible that Starfleet will not allow such timeships to exist between both factions.
There's no story to cover this up, this destroys what's left of canon. I honestly love the ships, they're beautiful, deadly, sleek, and ready for action. However, they are way too powerful for 24th Century Starfleet or the KDF. They need to be removed from the timeline, unless all of the technologies from them that are considered new be removed. The Mirror Universe
Luna and Destiny are vessels I would love to have, seeing a twin Luna class or Destiny will make me very happy (I don't have a KDF character so I don't care about the Qin).
There's a lot of stuff that I really love about the pack: KDF GETS ANTIMATTER SPREAD!
That's a good console there for people who can buy it. Polarized Disruptors would be the best energy weapon in PvP, since it combines polaron procs and disruptor procs, making it especially deadly. The timeships are my main concern, but unlike people who are going to complain that the lockbox sucks because it ruins the IP, I'm going to enjoy what they give me, because it's all going to the exchange anyway.
There's a major story update in Season 7, you just gotta wait for it. It all might be worth it.
Although, I would be seriously disappointed as a customer if Season 7 fails very badly, since we need a story update soon. We're all pretty tired of being VAs and depending on the Foundry as of now.
But more seriously, thank you Cryptic for the timeship. Been waiting for it for a while. Didn't expect there to be multiple versions much less mirror ones, though!
Would you like some polish so that you can shine the Dev's shoes for them?
Yeah, becausing expressing dislike toward something that you happen to like is wrong and therefore consitutes 'whining'.
:rolleyes:
Anyway, thanks for your elaborate, well reasoned post.
Welll, I also think you're whining. The devs add something to the game and you whine that it isn't what you wanted. You try to hide it behind saying that the game NEEDS things.(that it really doesn't)
Sure you're allowed to whine all you want, but I'm allowed to tell you to grow up and quit whining too.
For a bunch of trek fans crying murder of canon, they sure are not acting like true Star Fleet officers.
I mean really, if everyone just not worry what the person next to them was driving or flying things would seem more peaceful. Especially when they keep saying that they are not getting the ship, so then whats the problem?
I'm pretty sure if the ships were not in lockboxes no one will scream as much...I mean people will cry fowl but not as much.
I agree. Peeps scream bloody murder about how they hate the idea of it but... most of them are people who scream about anything and everything.
Are you off you Heads?????? i've been waiting for the temperal boxes to come out, i'm realy happy about that, BUT Keeping very rare ships in the lobi store is the worse idea i've ever seen!!! yes the ferengi set and other items should stay but not very rare ships!!, WHO EVER GIVE YOU THIS IDEA MUST BE WORKING FOR ANOTHER GAME lol.
also try making some instances that have (boss drops) that fleets/teams must do in groups of 30, and make it hard ffs, one ship drop or somthing epic that will bring team play back in to this game,,, did you never learn the leasons of what made WOW work????
and if you do make some don't make it so you can join pug groups for them lmao, make it so your team must be outside the instance with full group.
From the hip. Not that the KDF designs are unwelcome, but how do we know that Korath didn't contribute to the Wells-class? At least with regard to the temporal tech it uses. Or the Aeon for that matter?
I find the real problem with the klingon design (the korath), that they finally get a ship that's interestingly different, but its a grand prize. :mad:
"..and like children playing after sunset, we were surrounded by darkness." -Ruri Hoshino
Are you off you Heads?????? i've been waiting for the temperal boxes to come out, i'm realy happy about that, BUT Keeping very rare ships in the lobi store is the worse idea i've ever seen!!! yes the ferengi set and other items should stay but not very rare ships!!, WHO EVER GIVE YOU THIS IDEA MUST BE WORKING FOR ANOTHER GAME lol.
also try making some instances that have (boss drops) that fleets/teams must do in groups of 30, and make it hard ffs, one ship drop or somthing epic that will bring team play back in to this game,,, did you never learn the leasons of what made WOW work????
and if you do make some don't make it so you can join pug groups for them lmao, make it so your team must be outside the instance with full group.
Having read way too much of this thread, I must admit some of you are really taking these continuity issues a bit too hard. Star Trek has always been about imagination, more so when it comes as a MMORPG.
While the clutter of more or less believable weird ships may clash with a "classic" vision of Trek, please don't fail to see how it makes room for a little bit of everybody's ideas. The wide choice of weird ships - while played out as a cash cow of sorts I admit - is a springboard for Trek fans to play their ideas, to customize their character and his/her surroundings.
Some love to hop in Connies and dress their officers up in TOS costumes. Some love to play the 25th century storyline by the book. Now all you Trek geeks (no offense intended here ), don't tell me you can't ignore an occasional Wells or NX at DS9 (or wherever) if that's your thing. Some may love to play a timeship Captain. So what?
For my part, I can very well ignore all the Connies and still have an occasional bit of fun as a 25th century carrier commander with a thing for hopping in a shuttle and doing the dirty work for himself - as staunch Andorians do.
In other words: If you're so much into imagining a fictional universe as to fear this lockbox may ruin its continuity, I suspect you will also have the imaginative power to ignore a visible continuity break now and then and still roleplay your own vision.
Thanks Cryptic - for giving us all those lovely choices.
Krenn Temporal Destroyer (Mirror Universe) Looks awesome, to bad its a KDF and a science ship.
Mobius Temporal Destroyer (Mirror Universe) Looks awesome, hopefully people don't sell them for to much on the exchange, hahahahaha
I really wish they would put these ships on the C-Store so I could buy them, because I won't gamble for them thru the lock boxes.
That's not totally correct - both of the mirror lobi ships - "Temporal Destroyers" will have a Tactical focas instead of a science focas - IE the big bucks of 800 lobi each.
I've read the fan forums here and I don't remember
Fans asking for this stuff
I've asked myself that dozens of times on a variety of items that were head scratchers.
Things that do get asked for, get largely ignored or denied, and instead it seems we get what Cryptic wants to give us.
I know I specifically have asked for ship interiors, and bridges and era packs. I'm pretty sure others have asked for some of those items too.
And how long have people been asking for the Ambassador class?
So we can't have a ship that bore the name Enterprise, but we can have time traveling ships that don't even look like Starfleet vessels, but rather US Air Force fighter jets that were given growth hormones.
Let's take a look at some recent C-Store requests, shall we?
Yesterday's Enterprise Uniforms
Character Stances
TNG Bundle
Mercenary Ships
Constellation Class Starship
Terran Empire ships
Playable Races
TWOK Era Interior
Working Rank Insignia for TWOK Uniforms
ENT Bundle #2
Ambassador Class Starship
Norway Class Starship
So in the past 2-3 weeks, we've had these sort of requests. Most of them make pretty decent sense. Maybe I scratch my head a bit at the Mercenary ships and Terran Empire ships, but ok, whatever.
But, instead of working on LOGICAL stuff for the game / Z-Store, the stuff people actually ask for...
...we get 29th Century Time Travel Jet Fighter ships.
/facepalm
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
Comments
I was thinking of something to say and this post is pretty much how i feel about this new lockbox so i will quote it for the win
I should also add im not really much of a canon junkie and have overlooked a lot of the mess that cryptic has done with STO but for me playable timeships are just way too far.
For one the temporal prime directive/accords would not allow 25th century captains to command 29th century ships and the 29th or 31st century federation/starfleet would have put a stop to it before it happened. Also the ships should be vastly overpowered compared to everything else, like a big floating i win button.
There is just no way these ships should be playable, and any trek fan with the slightest of love for anything trek should be against them being playable ships as they make no sense whatsoever for being ingame.
I think its time for me to consider if i even want to play this game anymore as its obvious either cryptic have no clue about star trek or just dont care about makeing a good game anymore.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I mean really, if everyone just not worry what the person next to them was driving or flying things would seem more peaceful. Especially when they keep saying that they are not getting the ship, so then whats the problem?
I'm pretty sure if the ships were not in lockboxes no one will scream as much...I mean people will cry fowl but not as much.
Oh as far as the "crying" you aren't getting the picture. I could go name all the new federation ships in the c-store as for this its a lockbox ship so they are hoping a few kdf players drop in thousands of dollars for it. Instead of having product A, selling Product A, and making their money in a legit fashion.
If they can get the rights to it, sure why not I mean we got lightsabers last year, and no one cried canon foul...but then again those were free, so I'm sure people did not mind as much.
As another poster said a few pages back, you may as well just put the Millenium Falcon in a lockbox since that appeared, for a fraction of a second, in first contact. Or why not just go all out and put the Death Star in one? I'm sure that some absurd 'reasoning' involving Tholian space and the always-everywhere, finding everything first, Ferengi could be made up, and if it looks cool surely it HAS to be in STO.
======================================================================
If you go frame by frame on Star Trek 2009, just a few seconds before the Enterprise see's the Narada at Vulcan, R2-D2 flys by the screen on Sulu's side...
iLike this ship like every ST fan,but this ship is not place in ST:O,
its violating everything that Star Trek is. . .what is next Ent-J?
OK,put lockboxs i do not care. . .i well not buy it and that is it (i well not gamble whit my money,not on this game,on any game. . .ST(O) is not Casino.)
Perfect World have me big Disappointed but Cryptic and CBS too because they allowed this NON ST act. . .
Sto has put into this .
I've read the fan forums here and I don't remember
Fans asking for this stuff
So STO knows what it's customers want even
Though those same customers have already
Placed there order for what they want.
It's like going out to eat and ordering a steak
But they bring you baked chicken.
I hope you make money STO but I am sure
None of it will be mine on this venture
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Your absolutely right I do have free will and I used it to express an opinion so deal with it
After all you already can see a 22 century Vulcan cruiser that's assimilated by Borg and captained by Federation science officer. Or Galaxy-X which was rebuild USS Enterprise D on the order of admiral Riker in fantasy timeline created by Q. Or ships from spider-like civilisation that was probably on the level on 24th century Feds in 22 century that are now captured and rebuild completely (said civilisation is living in totally different environment then humanoids) only so that few captains may pilot it.
Who cares about some 29th century ship in this mix?
What I do care is the fact that with the ships and most likely consoles/weapons the PvP got the kick in the groin. And they can remove all those scraps and drops of fun that were left in STO for me. Will see, but most probably it will be good-bye time when those ships hit queues.
Not to mention the mirror universe versions.
There are more occasions of time travel in the canon where future agents didn't intervene than where they did. There are obviously breaches of the temporal directive that are supposed to happen.
Fergengi ship, cardasian ship, thalon ship.....you only see them a few days and then they disapear in a dark deep hangar because they are all TRIBBLE
Maybe it was only one ship sent (per faction) but that temporal 'looping' has spun it off into multiple temporal clones of itself, which have been found, and are being used.
as to " but a 29th century Tomeship should be able to blast the snot out of a 25th century one..."
Maybe a 29th Century Ship SHOULD be able to blast the snot out of a 25th century one...but can't, and that's part of why they were sent back? Maybe due to the massive conflicts AND all the outside interference by various parties, ST:0's 25th Century has advanced farther and faster than it should have done? Perhaps that's what was being investigated in the first place?
Maybe the 29th century Temporal agencies haven't been able to put right the alterations in the timeline because they can't know what the cause was, hence sending investigators; but maybe it was partly that act that caused the whole thing?
We could really do with a story seaon or feaured episode arc to go along with this to at least put some kind of face on all of this.
Mobius Temporal Destroyer (Mirror Universe) Looks awesome, hopefully people don't sell them for to much on the exchange, hahahahaha
I really wish they would put these ships on the C-Store so I could buy them, because I won't gamble for them thru the lock boxes.
I am dealing with it quite well. However I am still curious: if you are so bothered by reading people complain, why do you choose to read it? You are willingly doing something you admit bothers you, so you have only yourself to blame for that. And on top of that, you are complaining about other people complaining, making you guilty of the same thing you are complaining about other people doing.
There's no story to cover this up, this destroys what's left of canon. I honestly love the ships, they're beautiful, deadly, sleek, and ready for action. However, they are way too powerful for 24th Century Starfleet or the KDF. They need to be removed from the timeline, unless all of the technologies from them that are considered new be removed. The Mirror Universe
Luna and Destiny are vessels I would love to have, seeing a twin Luna class or Destiny will make me very happy (I don't have a KDF character so I don't care about the Qin).
There's a lot of stuff that I really love about the pack: KDF GETS ANTIMATTER SPREAD!
That's a good console there for people who can buy it. Polarized Disruptors would be the best energy weapon in PvP, since it combines polaron procs and disruptor procs, making it especially deadly. The timeships are my main concern, but unlike people who are going to complain that the lockbox sucks because it ruins the IP, I'm going to enjoy what they give me, because it's all going to the exchange anyway.
There's a major story update in Season 7, you just gotta wait for it. It all might be worth it.
Although, I would be seriously disappointed as a customer if Season 7 fails very badly, since we need a story update soon. We're all pretty tired of being VAs and depending on the Foundry as of now.
Sure you're allowed to whine all you want, but I'm allowed to tell you to grow up and quit whining too.
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
also try making some instances that have (boss drops) that fleets/teams must do in groups of 30, and make it hard ffs, one ship drop or somthing epic that will bring team play back in to this game,,, did you never learn the leasons of what made WOW work????
and if you do make some don't make it so you can join pug groups for them lmao, make it so your team must be outside the instance with full group.
I find the real problem with the klingon design (the korath), that they finally get a ship that's interestingly different, but its a grand prize. :mad:
Are those 29th century ships gonna have generic 25th century generic interiors? And, if so, I'd like to read some rationalization about it.
Thanks!
AM I the only one to feel this way????????
While the clutter of more or less believable weird ships may clash with a "classic" vision of Trek, please don't fail to see how it makes room for a little bit of everybody's ideas. The wide choice of weird ships - while played out as a cash cow of sorts I admit - is a springboard for Trek fans to play their ideas, to customize their character and his/her surroundings.
Some love to hop in Connies and dress their officers up in TOS costumes. Some love to play the 25th century storyline by the book. Now all you Trek geeks (no offense intended here
For my part, I can very well ignore all the Connies and still have an occasional bit of fun as a 25th century carrier commander with a thing for hopping in a shuttle and doing the dirty work for himself - as staunch Andorians do.
In other words: If you're so much into imagining a fictional universe as to fear this lockbox may ruin its continuity, I suspect you will also have the imaginative power to ignore a visible continuity break now and then and still roleplay your own vision.
Thanks Cryptic - for giving us all those lovely choices.
That's not totally correct - both of the mirror lobi ships - "Temporal Destroyers" will have a Tactical focas instead of a science focas - IE the big bucks of 800 lobi each.
I've asked myself that dozens of times on a variety of items that were head scratchers.
Things that do get asked for, get largely ignored or denied, and instead it seems we get what Cryptic wants to give us.
I know I specifically have asked for ship interiors, and bridges and era packs. I'm pretty sure others have asked for some of those items too.
And how long have people been asking for the Ambassador class?
So we can't have a ship that bore the name Enterprise, but we can have time traveling ships that don't even look like Starfleet vessels, but rather US Air Force fighter jets that were given growth hormones.
Let's take a look at some recent C-Store requests, shall we?
Yesterday's Enterprise Uniforms
Character Stances
TNG Bundle
Mercenary Ships
Constellation Class Starship
Terran Empire ships
Playable Races
TWOK Era Interior
Working Rank Insignia for TWOK Uniforms
ENT Bundle #2
Ambassador Class Starship
Norway Class Starship
So in the past 2-3 weeks, we've had these sort of requests. Most of them make pretty decent sense. Maybe I scratch my head a bit at the Mercenary ships and Terran Empire ships, but ok, whatever.
But, instead of working on LOGICAL stuff for the game / Z-Store, the stuff people actually ask for...
...we get 29th Century Time Travel Jet Fighter ships.
/facepalm
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey