Common Misconceptions

Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »

I wasn't the one who brought it up. If you don't care to know, don't ask. I hope you've learned your lesson young man.

I'm a girl

Yes Sir! **salutes


Now to rid the visual.

Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »

You can't. What was seen cannot be unseen.

Plus...Trolling is a art.

Dunno, I could troll the Veno boards a bit. Things seen over there could make two fly boys rubbin bow strings look like a regular walk in the park. b:laugh

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

here is the thing... veno with or without herc always takes 1 spot... which any duplicate char would take 2 or more spots. so if you can get a better fill for that 1 spot... why not get a better fill. there is no placing all responsibility on a pet... there is if we can get a veno with a better pet... why not get a veno with a better pet.
i personally don't give a rat's furry *** if my veno have or don't have a herc... cause my squad or aleast the people i run with will make up for any incompetent or short comings the veno or any other squad member may have. but until you or any other reach this stage... a veno's pet is genuine concern. if you don't want to get a herc cause you don't want to blend in... or its too expensive... or you don't need it... or whatever other reason. then you can sit on the sidelines like all the archers who refuse to get cv or refine pass +5. while people like me... who have no problem getting a herc... and cv... and refines... gets invited to squad and enjoy the game without being rejected cause of my short comings.

Here's the thing, is not an actual shortcoming. I explained this from a gameplay point of view, but you refuse to see it because ubergeared high level noobs have absolutely nothing else going for them. Apparently asking you to THINK may be a bit too much, so just stick to whatever routine is it you do on runs and trust the herc'ed or unherc'ed veno in your squad (whatever your rat furry *** is feeling in the mood for) will save you if things deviate even a little from whatever is it you are familiar with.

No, it's not the sidelines if i'm not squadding with people like you. Because i'll be trying those very same runs with the archers that don't get refines past +5 and whoever else you neanderthals think unworthy (i pretty much guess you are not as picky about clerics, but if you are all the more power to me) where we will make up for raw power using strategy and skill. It's freaking PvE man, do you honestly expect me to believe a competent squad cannot handle it? Are +6 refines required for content your level? I would actually hope for you to be right because that would mean i would actually have challenging tasks ahead of me in this game rather than simply grinding/Csing/merching my way to high levels so i can join squads that have turned what little endgame content there is into a boring routine job...

But don't worry, we won't discriminate against people like you, because we are basically healthy well adjusted adults that understand the sole purpose in doing this is to have fun. b:chuckle

No, it's not the sidelines if i'm not squadding with people like you. Because i'll be trying those very same runs with the archers that don't get refines past +5 and whoever else you neanderthals think unworthy (i pretty much guess you are not as picky about clerics, but if you are all the more power to me) where we will make up for raw power using strategy and skill.

It doesn't matter how "skilled" you are. You can have the best strategy ever and have the most skill ever but a TT boss is still going to take all day to die if you have +2 refines and not a single peice of -int gear

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

ahhh... god bless those 3 hour nirvana runs... and 5 hour 3-3 runs. what will people do without them. and btw... those who have strategy and skills to finish a run in aleast decent timing... will have the coins to buy raw power. which comes back to good players will find ways to make money to buy the good gears. its only the players lacking skills who can't find the money to buy good gears. and just a hint... some of the higher instance actually require raw power and skills... having one 1 and not the other will not get you anywhere.

and Lenore... get back in bed now... naked.

Oh, so now you care about the time it takes you to do a run? Haven't i shown you throughout this thread is actually FASTER to do runs without having an herc tanking, regardless of wether a veno owns one or not--- Don't we love contradictions? What's the use of your ubergear if you have to gimp your damage so you won't steal aggro? You can't refine hercs, they have very real limits...

And getting to the end of a run, no matter how long it takes you, is the first step in becoming more efficient. The second run goes faster, and the third... So don't you worry about wether we will manage...

My point was that at endgame there are certain standards of gear that need to be met, one of which is that a veno should have a herc.


Pre-endgame, i.e mid 9x and lower then no, I wouldn't expect a veno to have a herc, but I'd rather take the one that does on an instance run than one that doesn't

For the OP, some useful information.

BB aka Blue Bubble aka Regeneration Aura: Multi-casting this does not stack the damage reduction, although the heals will. Still better to have one IH spam and a BB rather than 2 BB's. BB also cancels out apoc Items that do damage reduction while it is up.

RB, aka Red Bubble aka Heaven's Wrath: This one does stack the -chan effect, but does not stack the damage boost. In most cases it is better to have one DDing though because that will help more than 2 RB's. RB cancels out sparks while it is up. You can cast spark for the short immunity, or triple spark for the added purify, but the damage boost you get from the spark is overwritten by RB right after the spark is cast. (people will argue that the -chan does not stack, I know they will. here's how I know it does work. We had a 86 Cleric, LA with around 5300hp to tank, Myself in my early 70's at the time, a low 60 veno, and 3 other low 60's clerics. 86 cleric tanked the instance (as I mentioned already), the veno pulled, and we all healed. At the bosses, I BB'ed, the other 3 clerics RB'ed and the 86 veno plume shot the bosses to death. Normal cleric attacks is like using a powder loader we cast so slow. In comparison, she looked like the was using a full automatic, the cooldown on casting was the only thing slowing her down.)

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

My point was that at endgame there are certain standards of gear that need to be met, one of which is that a veno should have a herc.


Pre-endgame, i.e mid 9x and lower then no, I wouldn't expect a veno to have a herc, but I'd rather take the one that does on an instance run than one that doesn't

Fair enough, i simply disagree that an herc is needed and have stated my reasons for that...

I will be playing FW for a while and once a certain MMO gets released next year my cycle here will be over. While there are certainly some goals i would like to acomplish before that time, i'm certainly not spending half the time i've got left in this game grinding for an herc just to fit in. I will simply have to stick to squadding with people whose intelligence allows them to challenge established wisdom.

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Seriously? a 5 hour run? i don't have that kind of time. A 100 Bm swapping between fist and axe, A 101 barb, (not using the claw ****, BM actually did most of the tanking), and 4 clerics ranging from 80 to 99. (I have no idea why we had the 80 in the squad but hey, wasn't my call.) We completed the run in a little over 3 hours. This was a week an a half ago, before they extended the timer from 4 hours to 8 hours. And yes, we finished the run to the last boss. No veno, and we just flew through.

every wonder why they increase tt from 4 to 8 hours... and not any of the other instances... now you know.

Cocobelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Also, they're not getting "badder and badder" at keeping aggro. Try keeping aggro from a 5aps BM, sins or a -50% chanelling wizard, psychic. b:shutup

a Herc can keep aggro from 5aps BM? o.o

___
anyway, if all ppl expecting all Venos to hv Herc, then all newborn Venos with no Herc now will forever be bad, bcos no one would invite them to squad and let him/her to have a squad Experience...


on the side note, its all up to the squad anyway, more or less its like saying "need a Barb with CV weapon at least +10 bcos we hv AR with CV weapon +5"

or maybe just "need a AR with CV weapon at least +7.."
why I want to squad with Herc'd Veno? I dunno, I just want to hv a rich and well-geared up squad members.


anyway, a little suggestion, can the Dev make some update on Veno Pet's Skills ?__?
make it like they hv Skill Lv6 that can be learned at Lv100 or something..
bcos right now the max Lv is 5 right? (not all) and it was learned at lv.80....
at lv.90~100 some of the Venos will hv high refined weapon / higher MAtk that would always steal aggro from the Pet..



and +1 to OP^^

Energize - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Lmao. Venos are useless without a herc? A veno that has a herc is a sign of a good veno? Many of you seem to be deluded.. My old char (83 as you see in avatar) had a herc and nix; however, my new veno doesn't have any of those luxuries and you're going to tell me that I'm a bad veno and/or useless? Lol get out of here. I definitely know more about my class than anyone else that isn't a veno and I probably do know more than a lot of venos today. How pathetic.

Level 83 max Veno cant speak. It wasnt until 90+ on my Veno that suddenly i saw how the instances were more demanding of a much more durable pet. When AoEs will 1 shot regular pets, or even in lures, when the pet cant make it through the feild of mobs to the far boss/guard you're trying to lure without dying... you need a more durable pet.

It has nothing to do with the skill of the veno. It has to do with the usefulness of the Veno, and thats different. If the pet keeps dying instead of doing the task it needs to do, then its not useful.

Also, i'd like to see a magmite tank the bosses in FF that the Veno is needed to tank. Again, a second veno wouldnt need a herc, or if there's 2 worthy tanks already in the party then the veno wouldnt need a herc. But since people want to maximize the DPS & minimize the utility characters (and yes Veno isnt max DPS, they are utility), they take a tank, a healer, 3 dps, and 1 final to offtank & lure & debuff bosses (aka the veno). By taking a Veno without a Herc, it means one of their DPS spots now needs to be taken by an offtank (although in this age of 5aps BMs, thats not necessarily a sacrifice and thereby it may not be as much of an issue).

Regardless of all that, the squad knows the role of the spot in the party they want filled, and if that role needs a Herc, and you dont have one, then you're S.O.L.. It doesnt matter how skilled you are, the prodigal genious of Venomancers, your pet still wont survive what they want it to do.

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Come on man, it's just a game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiQmQhA-OrM

Dark and I... unlike some other people... like to stay competitive. Like it was mention millions of times before... an average veno don't need hercs... but a competitive one does. From the looks of your level your average (in your server) at best... so there is really no reason for you to get a herc. But other people... such as my 101 veno... who has a herc, a nix, pet bag filled with other pets, tt99 gold and event gear can be bearly considered to be average in the competitive arena on HT.

OIdpop - Heavens Tear wrote: »

no its jsut a sign of some one spendign a butt load on a pet.I have seen/been with plenty venos using no hercs at high lvl's and doing jsut as good..a high lvl veno with no herc and mastering what they have in their bag..ill take anyday.

I am beginning to see that I have higher expection/definition of certain terms then the majority of forum goers. For me... average level would be the level of my sin (100)... high level would be above that of my archer (101). Borderline passing would be a mix of tt99/90. Average would be aleast +5 armor and above for weapon (venos with legendary pets). Decent would be +7 armor and +10 weapon. While top tier would need to have the levels and nirvana recast of armor/weapon with HIGH refines. I may have also been spoiled by the fact that I am aways surrounded by the upper percentile of the population from start to finish. First rad then enrage and for a short time a break away fraction of enrage during their first dominance. What you (in general) would consider to be skilled (veno included) could very well just be mediocre in my book.
It might be by my standards 90% of the population is classified as sub-par... but hey… when you log on and see nothing but 100+ with nothing but +10/12 gears… your standards change.

ZAPATON - Sanctuary wrote: »

And that is when you got to remember this is a game, and people come here for fun, and not for fancy numbers XD

Edit: For some reason it wouldn't let me quote the whole thing, so I just replaced it for "Stuff" XD

It is a game... but like all games there are people who just want to sit around and do whatever... and then there are people who are competitive and aim for the best. The whole arguement about herc can be boiled down to herc-less veno being out competited by herc venos... even if the herc veno is the late comer or doesn't even exist yet. My suggestion to every herc-less veno is that if they want to stay competitive get a herc... then you won't be complaining about being dropped from squads. And i also have mentioned many times that if you are fine with being a run of the mill player... then NO herc is needed.

This game... like all other games... and even real life games (sports or whatever). The best players will have the financial backing... and the ones with financial backing are usually the best players. When people argue that there skilled players who are not rich in the game. Thats like saying there is skilled players in the minor leagues of a sport. Sure... those minor league players are skilled... but lets face it... the true skilled players are in the majors. And those are the players with the big bucks.

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Level 83 max Veno cant speak. It wasnt until 90+ on my Veno that suddenly i saw how the instances were more demanding of a much more durable pet. When AoEs will 1 shot regular pets, or even in lures, when the pet cant make it through the feild of mobs to the far boss/guard you're trying to lure without dying... you need a more durable pet.

Didn't need them when hercs didn't exist. Squads managed to get the job done then, why can't they now? People are getting lazy, wanting everything to be handed to them. "I don't want to kill all these mobs to get to the boss."

I don't have a herc. I'll never have a herc. And I don't want one. It's a fallacy to assume that a herc'd veno automatically makes that veno better than an unherc'd veno. Even herc'd venos can be idiots.