Common Misconceptions
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Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »Yesterday in a frost I got a compliment on holeen based on me being the only veno that bothers to purge it. Very sad.
Ugh. Not to purge bosses that obviously need purging is indeed sad.
I can't imagine how long it probably takes to kill a boss with those buffs x_x
"I didn't know how buff icons look like" isn't an excuse either. You might not know how they buffs look like but if they are stuck on the boss then it should ring a bell.
The first time I came across a boss that needed purge (TT2-2) I didn't even know he needs purge but I looked at those icons, put the mouse over them, read the description and proceeded to purge. I generally always check the description on debuff/buff icons that I've never seen before.
Also I agree about frost. I've been frost runs and apart from the fact that you save the Barbarian from repair costs, I see no other reason to why it's so necessary to have a Hercules tank. Isn't a Barbarian better? DDs don't have to hold back their damage output with a Barbarian as much as they have to with a Hercules. I'd happily help the Barbarian with his repair cost if he has money problems or something O.o
And thank you LadyMaraJade
[SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »You can say that you are the best veno out there and rule over all herc venos for whatever that'll do you. But you also admitted that you got kicked for someone better. So obveriosly that squad leader don't think you are worth keeping. Aleast I can say when I join a squad no one kicks me thinking they can get a better replacement.
I have never been kicked out of a squad. NEVER. Not saying i have never made mistakes but it hasn't come to that. I don't lie to get into squads, if it's a TT run i make sure the leader knows i'm unherc'ed before asking for an invite. And i never said i was the best veno ever nor was i boasting. I said most venos my level (herc or no herc) don't perform their basic job, which as a COMPETENT veno alone gives me an advantage over most of the field. And since it was easy to guess you might argue things are different at a higher level range i did make the case for having outperformed SOME high level venos in runs i'm familiar with. I've also made runs with higher level herc'ed venos which were amazing players in case you're thick enough you need me to spell it out. Where do you get i'm the best veno ever from that? I make no other claim but being COMPETENT and of knowing my job. I'm reliable and skilled, it's not boasting to set things right. Your average veno is a weak DD and a glorified pet cleric regardless of wether they own an herc or not.
And your insecurity and pathological need for aproval do seem disgusting to me. Was there a moment you were getting kicked out of squads or is this coming from an irl thing? It's not my fault you invested a sick amount of time or money in this game and that now you feel everyone else should do the same to be accepted into your circle. We are not on the same server, but if we were i really couldn't freaking care less if i ever got to squad with you. I squad with others to PLAY the game, not to prove my worth. I'm competent enough and sufficiently geared and skilled i'll pull my own weight in a squad. You think not having an herc makes that unimportant? Cool, it's YOUR LOSS, not mine. You can't justify your demand from a REAL need can you? Just the arbitrary view the better geared player will always be better? You're not better in any way than a lowbie that started playing this game yesterday. The only difference is you have progressed to the very end of the game and have had your character grow fat, that's it. You only want to run with other fatties burguer boy? By all means go ahead, no one is preventing you from anything. Please let me know once you're done rolling around on your virtual cash and are ready to discuss actual gameplay...0 -
Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »Ugh. Not to purge bosses that obviously need purging is indeed sad.
I can't imagine how long it probably takes to kill a boss with those buffs x_x
"I didn't know how buff icons look like" isn't an excuse either. You might not know how they buffs look like but if they are stuck on the boss then it should ring a bell.
The first time I came across a boss that needed purge (TT2-2) I didn't even know he needs purge but I looked at those icons, put the mouse over them, read the description and proceeded to purge. I generally always check the description on debuff/buff icons that I've never seen before.
Also I agree about frost. I've been frost runs and apart from the fact that you save the Barbarian from repair costs, I see no other reason to why it's so necessary to have a Hercules tank. Isn't a Barbarian better? DDs don't have to hold back their damage output with a Barbarian as much as they have to with a Hercules. I'd happily help the Barbarian with his repair cost if he has money problems or something O.o
And thank you LadyMaraJade
In a 80s average squad it great to have an herc veno because of the bishop boss makes a lot easier when herc is tanking....(most off 80s fail squads die on that boss)0 -
_Spot_ - Lost City wrote: »In a 80s average squad it great to have an herc veno because of the bishop boss makes a lot easier when herc is tanking....(most off 80s fail squads die on that boss)
As far as i understand this depends on who you've got off-tanking, you don't need an herc for this...0 -
_Spot_ - Lost City wrote: »In a 80s average squad it great to have an herc veno because of the bishop boss makes a lot easier when herc is tanking....(most off 80s fail squads die on that boss)
Lol.
I know exactly how to sort that.
Barb tanks, everyone else concentrates on bishops. Its only when people (or the whole party) think that they dont need to help kill the bishops, that the bishops become an issue.
Im kinda sick of having to scream at the rest of the party in my Sins FCs that bishops > DD on boss.
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Oh and no herc doesnt mean a bad veno. It just means a veno who doesnt want a ground pet to farm TT. Mine has a nix, for PK and grinding. I hate TT and wont ever go in it. Why the hell should I save up all that money to buy a pet il only ever use for 20 levels? (FCing).
And at 83, Any veno should be able to tank what she needs to in FC, unless she gets slept or stunned etc.
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rage. But seriously, im not buying a sodding herc. Ever. 0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »So is a herc isn't considered a gear to a veno... then what is a herc. And why would an archer hold back just so the barb can have aggro... archer these days can tank all but tt bosses. Holding back in other situtions just so the barb can have his aggro and pride is just stupid. Thats like telling a 5aps user to hold back so a tiger form barb can have his aggro... stupid and slow things down.Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »Why do you keep putting words into my mouth?
If he can tank, good for him. There's a claw BM I run Nirvana with that I don't even try to take aggro from.
*My* problem is his assertion that 1) venos are effectively hangers-on if they don't show up with a herc and 2) anyone else who can't keep aggro from lvl 100+ archer crits/5aps BM claws is a fail tank.
Or have you not noticed, from every barb on the server, that PWI has failed to keep barb skills up with everyone's else ridiculous aggro?
I've spent the last 10 levels building this barb to keep aggro from a lvl 10x wiz with a +10 weapon. Why? Not because of my e-peen. Because if I can keep a hold of the bastage, you DD's can beat the living **** out of him faster. That's the whole "working as a team" part.
RedMenace
\still stands - Watermelons and Peas
\\I'm sure teenage testosterone (or Estrogen, in your case) expalins much of this thread
I don't recall saying barbs who can't keep aggro off an arch or 5aps bm is a fail tank... but hey... call yourself whatever you want. But I do recall saying that its stupid for a tank to attempt to take aggro when there is a dd in squad perfectly capable of tanking (even quoted my post for you).
A congratulation should be in order that you manage to hold aggro from a +10 wiz... now there is just a matter of all the +10 archers and +5 or above int bm/sins outs there. There is maybe what... a dozen or two +10 wizards out there. But guess what... there is hundreds of +10 or above archers... probably close to thousands of +5 or above int bm/sins. So you basically just spent the last 10 levels of your game play making a build thats capable to holding aggro from less then 5% of the dd population (when they are going all out). And guess what... if that said wizard can just tank... then all your effort for the past 10 levels just became useless.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
For me, I know right off if it's an icon I'm not very familiar with.Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »Ugh. Not to purge bosses that obviously need purging is indeed sad.
I can't imagine how long it probably takes to kill a boss with those buffs x_x
"I didn't know how buff icons look like" isn't an excuse either. You might not know how they buffs look like but if they are stuck on the boss then it should ring a bell.
The first time I came across a boss that needed purge (TT2-2) I didn't even know he needs purge but I looked at those icons, put the mouse over them, read the description and proceeded to purge. I generally always check the description on debuff/buff icons that I've never seen before.0 -
Hundreds of +10 Archers? Thousands of +5 BMs with int gear? LOL, some people are seriously in need of a reality check...0
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MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Hundreds of +10 Archers? Thousands of +5 BMs with int gear? LOL, some people are seriously in need of a reality check...
I am not sure where in the necks of woods you are from.... but where I am... well... where people actually have money for stuff. For every active +10 wizard... there is proably around 10 +10 archers. And ever last bm/sin will have +5 weapon... NO EXCUSES.
Before you try to bring up anything... just how many +10 wizards can you even name... nevertheless actually know? Every single active archer on my friend list have a +10 cv or better... and I am pretty sure every last damned bm/sin on my friend list WILL have a +5 weapon at the least. Hell... with the exception of myself... every archer on my friend list also have a +10 or close fist/claw in addition to their +10 or greater bow.
You might think that +5 is some sort of achievement. But in my world +5 on a weapon is not even worth mentioning.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »I am not sure where in the necks of woods you are from.... but where I am... well... where people actually have money for stuff. For every active +10 wizard... there is proably around 10 +10 archers. And ever last bm/sin will have +5 weapon... NO EXCUSES.
Before you try to bring up anything... just how many +10 wizards can you even name... nevertheless actually know? Every single active archer on my friend list have a +10 cv or better... and I am pretty sure every last damned bm/sin on my friend list WILL have a +5 weapon at the least. Hell... with the exception of myself... every archer on my friend list also have a +10 or close fist/claw in addition to their +10 or greater bow.
You might think that +5 is some sort of achievement. But in my world +5 on a weapon is not even worth mentioning.
LoL, neck of the woods? Yea, i've been spending far too much time vactioning on Nightscream and you know what a bad reception sat phones get there... Can't really rely on print media for good gearing statistics these days but i'll make sure to visit an online cafe next time i'm in Archo...
Most of your ubergeared chars are the alts of someone or their friends/spouses/siblings... How many actually active high level toons geared to YOUR standard do you think there are on any given server? Let's say for argument's sake only half of regular players participate in Celestial Tiger, given only the first 150-200 spots get any reward at all you can make a good extrapolation off of that. So, 300-400 per sever? On a game that, even if you don't buy into the often quoted 100k figure for population is what? How much of a percentage is that on tens of thousands. So even if on HT Tigers was rewarding twice as many people as on Sanct, which i very much doubt, you'd be getting no more than 50-60 active Archers with a +10 refined wep at best. And you think there are hundreds on YOUR server? Boy, people must be running out of lame excuses to keep you off their squads...0 -
Common Misconception #Over 9000:
This thread isn't just about "no-hercules venomancers" and everyone else debating about said pet, and calling each other names. Yes. This is a happy friendly topic b:cuteMadness?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I am not sure where in the necks of woods you are from.... but where I am... well... where people actually have money for stuff.
You know, Kiyoshi... listening to some of your posts, it becomes increasingly apparent to me that 99% of the population of PWI couldn't ever get a spot in one of your squads.You might think that +5 is some sort of achievement. But in my world +5 on a weapon is not even worth mentioning.
I mean really... +5 isn't worth mention? Maybe the neck of the woods where you are from includes several money-growing trees, but for the rest of us it's just not worth the money (if one's a CSer) or the time (if they aren't) to +10 everything. Last time I visited pwcalc.ru, I played around with a build in which I +3'd all my final armors (the Dark Floria mold set, minus the nearly impossible to get shins) and ornaments and +5'd my final weapons. I'm happy with that plan. But obviously I'd be chased out of one of your squads with torches and pitchforks.
You see why I don't care about endgame? My choices are either (A) never get a squad for anything "important," or (B) sell my house/car/soul to obtain my equips, which will then be used to get more or better equips, which will then be used for..... TW? Oh wait, I don't have a chance in hell in TW unless I join Enrage after spending all that money on that gear. XD
So yeah... this is pretty much why I haven't participated in the herc debate for awhile. We get it: Hercs are required in Kiyoshi-land. That's great. You have fun with that. I'll be over here pondering whether most of your type will eventually get bored of endgame or just ragequit the next time PWE nerfs something. Because really, when you think about it, it's going to be one or the other. :P[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »LoL, neck of the woods? Yea, i've been spending far too much time vactioning on Nightscream and you know what a bad reception sat phones get there... Can't really rely on print media for good gearing statistics these days but i'll make sure to visit an online cafe next time i'm in Archo...
Most of your ubergeared chars are the alts of someone or their friends/spouses/siblings... How many actually active high level toons geared to YOUR standard do you think there are on any given server? Let's say for argument's sake only half of regular players participate in Celestial Tiger, given only the first 150-200 spots get any reward at all you can make a good extrapolation off of that. So, 300-400 per sever? On a game that, even if you don't buy into the often quoted 100k figure for population is what? How much of a percentage is that on tens of thousands. So even if on HT Tigers was rewarding twice as many people as on Sanct, which i very much doubt, you'd be getting no more than 50-60 active Archers with a +10 refined wep at best. And you think there are hundreds on YOUR server? Boy, people must be running out of lame excuses to keep you off their squads...
So your getting all your information off a tiger event? For every +10 that goes to tiger... there is probably 10 more that doesn't. And every last bm/sin who hits 100 will have a +5 weapon. I am in a pretty decent sized guild... and I am pretty sure everyone regardless of class in my guild have a +5... or else they would have been kicked a long time ago. And I highly doubt if anyone in our rival guild doesn't have aleast a +5. And once in a while I'll run into a random no name that have a weapon that my +10 can't even hold a candle to.
Just cause someone is active... doesn't mean they ahve to play every day of the week... it doesn't mean they have to play any day of the week days... just as long as they show up during the weekend or for tw. Hell if you must get on the couple days a week to be considered active... i haven't been active for better half of the year.
And really... do you really expect your 7x *** to know more about the make up of the 100s then me... who have several character in the 100s. You aspire to have +6... while I wonder why that dead guy over haven't refine his +6 more.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »
I mean really... +5 isn't worth mention? Maybe the neck of the woods where you are from includes several money-growing trees, but for the rest of us it's just not worth the money (if one's a CSer) or the time (if they aren't) to +10 everything. Last time I visited pwcalc.ru, I played around with a build in which I +3'd all my final armors (the Dark Floria mold set, minus the nearly impossible to get shins) and ornaments and +5'd my final weapons. I'm happy with that plan. But obviously I'd be chased out of one of your squads with torches and pitchforks.
How much do you think a +5 cost? You can get that without dragon orbs by refining with maybe 200 mirages (or less). The price of mirages is practically 10k each... so 200 mirages at 10k each comes out to 2 million coins. Lets just say that your the unluckiest person on the face of the earth and double that... 4 million coins. So are you really going to tell me that a level 100 character will not have 4 million coins to refine his weapon to a simple +5? at today's gold to coin ratio... 4 million coins is about 9 usd. are you really not going to have 9 dollars to invest in a game that you have been playing for who knows how long? even if you are dead on about not spending money on the game and go for the worse way to make money... nirvana runs. thats 8 average nirvana runs (if you are taking home 1/6 of the drops). really now? you played for aleast a year... but can't be bothered to run 8 nirvanas?1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »So your getting all your information off a tiger event? For every +10 that goes to tiger... there is probably 10 more that doesn't. And every last bm/sin who hits 100 will have a +5 weapon. I am in a pretty decent sized guild... and I am pretty sure everyone regardless of class in my guild have a +5... or else they would have been kicked a long time ago. And I highly doubt if anyone in our rival guild doesn't have aleast a +5. And once in a while I'll run into a random no name that have a weapon that my +10 can't even hold a candle to.
Just cause someone is active... doesn't mean they ahve to play every day of the week... it doesn't mean they have to play any day of the week days... just as long as they show up during the weekend or for tw. Hell if you must get on the couple days a week to be considered active... i haven't been active for better half of the year.
And really... do you really expect your 7x *** to know more about the make up of the 100s then me... who have several character in the 100s. You aspire to have +6... while I wonder why that dead guy over haven't refine his +6 more.
Ok, let's settle this. PROVE ME WRONG. Tell me your guild's name, we'll investigate. Tell me who your rivals are. In fact, list for me all guilds whose archers would be required to have a +10 refined wep and list all independents that you know conform to this standard. Let's see if we can find 100 active Archers with a +10 refined wep in HT. You say logging on once a week is your standard for active? Fine, we'll work off that.
If you're right a mere post with whatever offhand knowledge you have should easily shut me up. Now, DELIVER. I'll publicly apologize to you, admit i was owned and will never again question anything you say if you can prove what you say to be reality in a place other than your head. Come on, i'm just a lowbie 7x veno, show me my place. I dare you.
I don't log in to the game to participate in the wallet race, if i was into that i would be doing it in a club where at least i would get to go home every night with a wannabe gold digger (and yes, i could afford to) not on an MMO where someone living in their mom's basement and having access to his full minimum wage check as disposable income may fancy to be better than anyone else.
I want to live like common people. b:sin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqgXzPfAxjo0 -
At what point did I say I would have trouble refining to +5? It's beyond that where it gets expensive. But more importantly, you're only calculating for a single piece of gear. +5 in one gear costs 4mil, sure, let's go with that. I will have four weapons at endgame (bow, xbow, sling, and claw - and no, not a -int claw). At 4mil per weapon, that'll run me 16mil. Then there's armor and ornaments. Given that these only require 1 mirage per attempt, let's say +5 on any one of those will run me an additional 2 mil.Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »How much do you think a +5 cost? You can get that without dragon orbs by refining with maybe 200 mirages (or less). The price of mirages is practically 10k each... so 200 mirages at 10k each comes out to 2 million coins. Lets just say that your the unluckiest person on the face of the earth and double that... 4 million coins. So are you really going to tell me that a level 100 character will not have 4 million coins to refine his weapon to a simple +5? at today's gold to coin ratio... 4 million coins is about 9 usd. are you really not going to have 9 dollars to invest in a game that you have been playing for who knows how long? even if you are dead on about not spending money on the game and go for the worse way to make money... nirvana runs. thats 8 average nirvana runs (if you are taking home 1/6 of the drops). really now? you played for aleast a year... but can't be bothered to run 8 nirvanas?
(4 weapons x 4mil) + (6 armors x 2mil) + (4 ornaments x 2mil) = 16mil + 12mil + 8mil = 36mil to refine an entire set of gear to +5.
Now, I can think of a lot of uses for 36mil... outfitting my alts with mounts and aerogears (for those who don't already have one), giving said alts a chance at decent weaponry, or putting a dent in the massive undertaking that is getting (and learning) Lv11 skills for my main all come to mind.
Oh, I know what you're going to say next: "don't supply your alts with stuff at the expense of your main." Sure, if I sold everything my alts own I could afford to +5 or +6 all my equips and maybe even get some gold armors. I never said I couldn't. I just said it wasn't worth it. And to me, it's not. I'd rather play 8 or 9 characters who I have fun with than pursue citizenship in Kiyoshi-land. :P[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
I will have four weapons at endgame (bow, xbow, sling, and claw - and no, not a -int claw).
Why the hell would you have 4 weapons at endgame, when you can't even afford to refine one?
That's just dumb. As equally stupid as blowing money to buy mounts for an alt and then complaining when people say your gear is subpar.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."0 -
I'm not putting words in your mouth, I'm putting words to your actions. What I see is you suddenly getting riled up when Kiyo says that DDs should tank because barbs won't be holding aggro against them anyways. That's fine, more or less. But then you go on to say you don't mind if DDs tank as long as they tell you beforehand. Anyways if you feel like explaining that away as someone else's attitude then go ahead...it's no skin off my back really.Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »Why do you keep putting words into my mouth?
If he can tank, good for him. There's a claw BM I run Nirvana with that I don't even try to take aggro from.
*My* problem is his assertion that 1) venos are effectively hangers-on if they don't show up with a herc and 2) anyone else who can't keep aggro from lvl 100+ archer crits/5aps BM claws is a fail tank.
Or have you not noticed, from every barb on the server, that PWI has failed to keep barb skills up with everyone's else ridiculous aggro?
I've spent the last 10 levels building this barb to keep aggro from a lvl 10x wiz with a +10 weapon. Why? Not because of my e-peen. Because if I can keep a hold of the bastage, you DD's can beat the living **** out of him faster. That's the whole "working as a team" part.
RedMenace
\still stands - Watermelons and Peas
\\I'm sure teenage testosterone (or Estrogen, in your case) expalins much of this thread
And FYI, I am already out of my teenage years, and this herc business hardly seems an e-peen contest except in the case of the non-herced venos trying to claim they're as big as herced venos. I've put my case down already...whether you want to get a herc is entirely your business, but when you make the choice not to get one, you don't get to QQ about squads not wanting you. And the rest of you don't go yammering about how you never get kicked from squads; I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about people who QQ about squads wanting herc venos instead of finding a way around it. It has nothing to do with my e-peen or your e-peen, it's about venos learning to live with what they decide without demanding their peers to bend their standards.0 -
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Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »At what point did I say I would have trouble refining to +5? It's beyond that where it gets expensive. But more importantly, you're only calculating for a single piece of gear. +5 in one gear costs 4mil, sure, let's go with that. I will have four weapons at endgame (bow, xbow, sling, and claw - and no, not a -int claw). At 4mil per weapon, that'll run me 16mil. Then there's armor and ornaments. Given that these only require 1 mirage per attempt, let's say +5 on any one of those will run me an additional 2 mil.
(4 weapons x 4mil) + (6 armors x 2mil) + (4 ornaments x 2mil) = 16mil + 12mil + 8mil = 36mil to refine an entire set of gear to +5.
Now, I can think of a lot of uses for 36mil... outfitting my alts with mounts and aerogears (for those who don't already have one), giving said alts a chance at decent weaponry, or putting a dent in the massive undertaking that is getting (and learning) Lv11 skills for my main all come to mind.
Oh, I know what you're going to say next: "don't supply your alts with stuff at the expense of your main." Sure, if I sold everything my alts own I could afford to +5 or +6 all my equips and maybe even get some gold armors. I never said I couldn't. I just said it wasn't worth it. And to me, it's not. I'd rather play 8 or 9 characters who I have fun with than pursue citizenship in Kiyoshi-land. :P
I did mention that there is a pretty good odd for getting +5 with 2 mil... 4 mil if your the unluckiest guy on earth. So you plan on being the unluckest guy on earth for all 4 of your weapon, all 6 of your armor, and all 4 of your orna? Thats being the unluckiest guy alive a total of 14 times. If thats really your luck... then nothing I or anyone can do about it. In reality you'll only need half of your calculated 36 mil.
And really... do you actually need or use all 3 ranged weapons? I personally only have 2 ranged weapon... 1 at +10 and the other at +1 (3* bow with distract... which I found... if it wasn't for the useless rare add on of distract i won't even have it.). My claw is the 7x mold claw (dark flash or whatever... which i bought mold for 200k) at +1. I literally can't think of a single good reason for a resources strap archer for having equal refines on 3-4 totally different weapons.
EDIT: If you really are "poorer" (or as however you put it) then me... then there is no point for you to try to live beyond even my means (my 1 main weapon vs your 4).1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Oh, I can afford to. I just don't yet. Only one of the weps I currently use, do I plan to keep in endgame. I'll get around to refining it at some point. :PRawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »Why the hell would you have 4 weapons at endgame, when you can't even afford to refine one?
As for why I keep 4 weps? I have fun using them (much like I have fun on my veno with all her various pets, none of which is a herc). I'm at a loss as to why I'd need any other reason. o.O
Who's complaining? "Par" is relative. I'm sure I wouldn't be allowed into Club Rawrgh, either, because of my gear, but I wouldn't complain - I'd just laugh.Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »That's just dumb. As equally stupid as blowing money to buy mounts for an alt and then complaining when people say your gear is subpar.
If I ever cared about being "serious" and +10ing my gear, and ditching my preferred gears for the statistically "best" ones, here's what would have to happen to convince me. There'd have to be an instance or other game feature that:- I cannot partake in properly because my gear does not afford me enough survivability due to HP from refinements, --OR-- because my build and weapons are not sufficient for doing my job properly (meaning, there'd have to be an instance where the bosses have to die in a certain amount of time lest bad things happen or the instance resets... and the sole difference between success or fail is whether I, personally +10'd my wep).... --AND--
- I actually care about; meaning, there'd have to be some reward from it that I actually want or that is clearly necessary to my advancement through the core gameplay of PWI.
At present, no instance, challenge, or other game feature present in the current endgame meets those criteria for me. So what motive do I have to +10?
Endgame instances, to me, are largely boring. I'm 91. I know all the base skills that I can know up to this point (with the exception of Blessing of the Condor), and I know how to properly play my class. What's left for me? Why do I continue to play? Well, I do hope to eventually raise enough coin to learn most or all of my sage skills... and finally, hit 100 and learn Awaken (possibly Blood Vow too, although Sage STA would make it largely unnecessary). This is an interesting goal to me. Realizing the skill potential of my class keeps me playing.
But at 100, if I have Awaken and Blood Vow and all the sage skills... there's nothing left that interests me, so all I can do is retire my main and play on my alts until and unless the level cap is raised.
To me, the core gameplay of PWI is the quests and various other goals on the world map itself (including Heaven/Hell). Culti, including OHT map unlocking quests, are the closest thing this game has to a linear structure. And while this occasionally requires that I complete various instance objectives, I've got no qualms with that.
tl;dr: As of yet, nothing I care about necessitates that I +10 all my equips, nor is there any core gameplay reason to do so (except, perhaps, to do it a little faster). The day that PWE makes +10 equips required to proceed through the game is the day I quit.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »But at 100, if I have Awaken and Blood Vow and all the sage skills... there's nothing left that interests me, so all I can do is retire my main and play on my alts until and unless the level cap is raised.
If you really are going for awaken or vow... then let me put something into perspective for you. the coin cost to get awaken OR vow or the coin equilvent to get it can refine a weapon to +7/8... probably closer to +8.
EDIT: As far as i am concerned (correct me if i am wrong)... no archer on HT has both skills... even the +12 archers. So for a guy who refuse to get +10... you are setting an awfully high goal.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »If you really are going for awaken or vow... then let me put something into perspective for you. the coin cost to get awaken OR vow or the coin equilvent to get it can refine a weapon to +7/8... probably closer to +8.
EDIT: As far as i am concerned (correct me if i am wrong)... no archer on HT has both skills... even the +12 archers. So for a guy who refuse to get +10... you are setting an awfully high goal.
If Accelerator can get Warsoul, then I wont even argue with his goals.0 -
Oneji - Heavens Tear wrote: »[/COLOR]
If Accelerator can get Warsoul, then I wont even argue with his goals.
well... considering he (acc) is the one of the first person to get +10 (on his wizard). but we're talking about a guy here who doesn't think he even needs a +10.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »If you really are going for awaken or vow... then let me put something into perspective for you. the coin cost to get awaken OR vow or the coin equilvent to get it can refine a weapon to +7/8... probably closer to +8.
EDIT: As far as i am concerned (correct me if i am wrong)... no archer on HT has both skills... even the +12 archers. So for a guy who refuse to get +10... you are setting an awfully high goal.
If HT doesn't have a single archer with both 100 skills, that's pathetic, because I do. And I don't even CS that much. Most of my gear is +5.0 -
Hm. o.OKiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »If you really are going for awaken or vow... then let me put something into perspective for you. the coin cost to get awaken OR vow or the coin equilvent to get it can refine a weapon to +7/8... probably closer to +8.
EDIT: As far as i am concerned (correct me if i am wrong)... no archer on HT has both skills... even the +12 archers. So for a guy who refuse to get +10... you are setting an awfully high goal.
Chrono Pages sell for 2mil on HT, on average. You need 20 of them.
Medium Ink sells for 105k each from the forge NPC. You need 10 of them.
So in order to make Awaken or Blood Vow, you would need a little over 41mil, right? Judging by the amount of coin some people can throw around, 82mil for both of one's 100 skills shouldn't be that impossible a goal for those +12ers.
So unless I'm missing something, why is this so impossible? If its equivalent is just to refine something to +8, and there are plenty of people who've farmed that kind of coin anyway, why does nobody have both of them?
I'm never afraid to stand corrected, but there seems to be a nugget of information I'm missing, here. :P
At any rate, I don't have my heart set on both of those skills, or even one of them (though I'd much prefer Awaken to Blood Vow). I'm more interested in getting most or all of my sage skills throughout the 90s, which would be about as lofty a goal, no?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
It's amazing how those who consider themselves to be in power can be afraid of such a simple thing as the truth...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqccyUpnZwA
I now consider what i have argued to have gone unchallenged.0 -
there'd have to be an instance where the bosses have to die in a certain amount of time lest bad things happen or the instance resets.
Delta, 3-3Endgame instances, to me, are largely boring. I'm 91.
You've barely experienced half the game.Well, I do hope to eventually raise enough coin to learn most or all of my sage skills...
Sage archer, lol.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."0 -
And the difference between success or failure in those instances is one +10 archer versus one +5 archer? Forgive me for being skeptical that the margin of error is just that specific.Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »Delta, 3-3
Can you elaborate on that using some basis other than your own personal opinion? :P Or should I just disregard this one?Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »You've barely experienced half the game.
Hell, people like you are half the reason I went sage. I like to troll statistical perfectionists.Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »Sage archer, lol. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
No Herc venos FTW!!! ^_^[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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