Common Misconceptions

Allisandre - Sanctuary

After playing the game for a very long time I am often surprised that the things that people don't know, realize, or misunderstand. So I figured I'd fire off a thread listing them. I do ask that you post respectfully and that the troll stay out, but I know that won't happen so I'll just suck the good points out later and update this, the primary list.

1. Barbs tanking in 59. All of the bosses have magical attacks and barbs just don't have any decent magical defense. HP isn't the issue here, and a wizard can hold aggro if the rest of the squad plays smart. So please, stop thinking the barb is always the tanker. (Also not that Drake and Glutt have a fire DoT attack and whoever is tanking needs to be purified regularly so that these to stack up badly.)(Almost forgot to mention that the same is true for Calcid and Trioc in 39.) Yes barbs are good tanks, but people need to realize that in some cases, other classes can tank, and may even be a better choice.

2. The veno pulls. With the addition of genies, it is possible for other classes to pull. HOWEVER, if you have a veno in the squad, let them pull. If you decide that you wish to pull with your genie instead, then discuss it beforehand. Many a party is wiped because the veno goes to pull and some other player decides that he/she will instead.

3. Do BH's to level up. While BH is a great tool to level, and is awesome for filling that gap in the higher levels, leveling exclusively with BH is just going to make life harder for you. Sure you can get from 0 to 60 in 5 days, but what have you learned? Now you've got a huge pile of skills to learn and no money or spirit needed to learn them. For venomancers it is especially hard keeping the pets caught up with your level. Do your quests first, and fill in the space after quests with BH. You'll play better when you know how to play your character and have the skills you need to not fail. (NOTE: Despite the arguments, you learn more about your characters skills soloing in the lower levels than you do in BH squads. Once you have achieved the higher levels, BH is a necessary part of leveling because it basically replaces the tedium of grinding. By this point you should know how to play your character for the most part. You'd be surprised at how many don't. (oh wait, you do know, look at all the QQ threads on failed BH runs.))

4. You have to spend money to do good in the game. No, this is absolutely not true. I hardly spend any money in the cash shop, and when I do, it's usually just a couple of charms when they are on sale. I've for a 94cleric with good gear that does TW, an 82 barb, also with excellent gear for his level, and a few other characters that have done just fine without spending oodles of cash on the game. Use your coins wisely, farm and merchant for the extra cash you need and you'll do just fine.

5. A venomancer is worthless if she doesn't have a herc. Yes the herc is good, but it's not that exclusive anymore. The abilities of the herc were nerfed many months ago and it is much more difficult for a herc to hold aggro. The only difference between a walker and a herc at level 90 is about 1200hp and the skills. My walker will actually take aggro from an equally leveled herc if I'm not careful. So knock it off and let non-herced venos do FCC ect.

6. The squad got wiped at 'X' boss because the cleric wan't healing everyone. Clerics seems to get blamed a lot for people dying, especially at bosses. Never mind that the archer/assasin/blademaster was going all out in an effort to prove how OP they were and take aggro from the barb. What usually happens is that the cleric is focused on healing the barb, someone without enough HP to tank gets aggro, and pandemonium ensues. When you take aggro, it resets the values. Also, there's is some delay in seeing that a person is taking aggro and noticing their hp drop, selecting said individual, and then beginning the healing process. Typically, they die, and the aggro goes to the next individual dealing a lot of damage. Give the clerics a break and pay attention to how you are fighting and what you are aggroing. (Also keep in mine that hyper-leveled clerics often have sucky heal skills because they can't afford to level them)

7. Reflect will reduce the damage I take. Bramble guard does not reduce your damage taken all it does is return some of the attackers damage back to them. Skill Description: "Cast a bramble shield of protection on a friendly target. Returns XX% of melee damage to attackers." The Psychic version reads similarly but with a lot more words because of the soulforce. (NOTE: I have tested this extensively on both my venomancer and my psychic and there was NO reduction in the damage taken by the mob hitting me.)

8. Skills and equips boost your flying speed. Specifically True Form, SumerSprint, gear that adds to speed ect. No matter what class you are, or gear or whatever, your base flying speed is 5. The Aerogear will add to that, along with apoc speed boosts and the white genies base skill, and some skill that the Tideborn have. (forget the names, will add later.) For example: A Barb in True Form has a run speed of 8. When he takes to the air, his +3 aerogear does not add the +3 to 8 making +11. Rather it adds the +3 to a SET base speed of 5 to make it +8. (yes the barb would be slower flying than runnin, and in some cases a barb can get faster than a mount.)

9. Venomancers can get banned for attacking ground mobs from the air, with an air pet. As long as the mob is able to fight back it is totally legal. Mob does not have to be able to attack the veno, but at least her pet. The only occation where this is bannable is where there is a glitch that prevents the mob from fighting back without resetting. The only one I am familiar with that glitches atm is Gouf.

10. BB / RB Infos

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

BB aka Blue Bubble aka Regeneration Aura: Multi-casting this does not stack the damage reduction, although the heals will. Still better to have one IH spam and a BB rather than 2 BB's. BB also cancels out apoc Items that do damage reduction while it is up.

RB, aka Red Bubble aka Heaven's Wrath: This one does stack the -chan effect, but does not stack the damage boost. In most cases it is better to have one DDing though because that will help more than 2 RB's. RB cancels out sparks while it is up. You can cast spark for the short immunity, or triple spark for the added purify, but the damage boost you get from the spark is overwritten by RB right after the spark is cast. (people will argue that the -chan does not stack, I know they will. here's how I know it does work. We had a 86 Cleric, LA with around 5300hp to tank, Myself in my early 70's at the time, a low 60 veno, and 3 other low 60's clerics. 86 cleric tanked the instance (as I mentioned already), the veno pulled, and we all healed. At the bosses, I BB'ed, the other 3 clerics RB'ed and the 86 veno plume shot the bosses to death. Normal cleric attacks is like using a powder loader we cast so slow. In comparison, she looked like the was using a full automatic, the cooldown on casting was the only thing slowing her down.)

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

I'd also like to add, Blue Bubble also overwrites a sage Sage spark damage reduction.

Red Bubble also cancel's Hell spark's -interval bonus and hell spark damage boost as well. Demon BMs such as my self get highly annoyed with a cleric decides they want to cast it rather than DDing, or putting it far enough away so the melee aren't affected by it and only the ranged and BB are.

RB does increase the healing output of BB.

11. The +1% Critical Hit Rate arrow. It has been verified by both archers and GM's that the increase in critstrike rate ONLY occurs when the arrow is fired. Just having it sitting there does not actually increase your rate, even though it shows in your character screen.

Updated: Added the useful info on the cleric skills provided by SylenThunder and Michael_dark.
Also, when quoting this post, please reduce it to the specifics that you are quoting, not the entire post. It's cluttering up the thread.

GreenBeans - Dreamweaver

Allisandre - Sanctuary wrote: »

After playing the game for a very long time I am often surprised that the things that people don't know, realize, or misunderstand. So I figured I'd fire off a thread listing them. I do ask that you post respectfully and that the troll stay out, but I know that won't happen so I'll just suck the good points out later and update this, the primary list.

1. Barbs tanking in 59. All of the bosses have magical attacks and barbs just don't have any decent magical defense. HP isn't the issue here, and a wizard can hold aggro if the rest of the squad plays smart. So please, stop thinking the barb is always the tanker. (Also not that Drake and Glutt have a fire DoT attack and whoever is tanking needs to be purified regularly so that these to stack up badly.)(Almost forgot to mention that the same is true for Calcid and Trioc in 39.)
No one said barbs are the only tanks but it would be in the same sense as me being a cleric decided, hey i hope you brought alot of pots because i'm going to DD. Barbs make good tanks.
2. The veno pulls. With the addition of genies, it is possible for other classes to pull. HOWEVER, if you have a veno in the squad, let them pull. If you decide that you wish to pull with your genie instead, then discuss it beforehand. Many a party is wiped because the veno goes to pull and some other player decides that he/she will instead. Noob squad, nuff said.

3. Do BH's to level up. While BH is a great tool to level, and is awesome for filling that gap in the higher levels, leveling exclusively with BH is just going to make life harder for you. Sure you can get from 0 to 60 in 5 days, but what have you learned? Now you've got a huge pile of skills to learn and no money or spirit needed to learn them. For venomancers it is especially hard keeping the pets caught up with your level. Do your quests first, and fill in the space after quests with BH. You'll play better when you know how to play your character and have the skills you need to not fail.She's right BH's help but.....oracles are frosting on the cake! What do you learn from oracles you ask? That blood red player killing sins don't like oracler's thats what.

4. You have to spend money to do good in the game. No, this is absolutely not true. I hardly spend any money in the cash shop, and when I do, it's usually just a couple of charms when they are on sale. I've for a 94cleric with good gear that does TW, an 82 barb, also with excellent gear for his level, and a few other characters that have done just fine without spending oodles of cash on the game. Use your coins wisely, farm and merchant for the extra cash you need and you'll do just fine.You don't have to it's just easier to.

5. A venomancer is worthless if she doesn't have a herc. Yes the herc is good, but it's not that exclusive anymore. The abilities of the herc were nerfed many months ago and it is much more difficult for a herc to hold aggro. The only difference between a walker and a herc at level 90 is about 1200hp and the skills. My walker will actually take aggro from an equally leveled herc if I'm not careful. So knock it off and let non-herced venos do FCC ect.
venomancer without herc is worthless kthnxb:chuckle
6. The squad got wiped at 'X' boss because the cleric wan't healing everyone. Clerics seems to get blamed a lot for people dying, especially at bosses. Never mind that the archer/assasin/blademaster was going all out in an effort to prove how OP they were and take aggro from the barb. What usually happens is that the cleric is focused on healing the barb, someone without enough HP to tank gets aggro, and pandemonium ensues. When you take aggro, it resets the values. Also, there's is some delay in seeing that a person is taking aggro and noticing their hp drop, selecting said individual, and then beginning the healing process. Typically, they die, and the aggro goes to the next individual dealing a lot of damage. Give the clerics a break and pay attention to how you are fighting and what you are aggroing. (Also keep in mine that hyper-leveled clerics often have sucky heal skills because they can't afford to level them)
3 ih on the tank 1 squad heal. keeps aggro vollyball at bay
7. Reflect will reduce the damage I take. Bramble guard does not reduce your damage taken all it does is return some of the attackers damage back to them. Skill Description: "Cast a bramble shield of protection on a friendly target. Returns XX% of melee damage to attackers." The Psychic version reads similarly but with a lot more words because of the soulforce.
Psy's still hurts like hell <_<
8. Skills and equips boost your flying speed. Specifically True Form, SumerSprint, gear that adds to speed ect. No matter what class you are, or gear or whatever, your base flying speed is 5. The Aerogear will add to that, along with apoc speed boosts and the white genies base skill. (forget the names, will add later.) b:victory

9. Venomancers can get banned for attacking ground mobs from the air, with an air pet. As long as the mob is able to fight back it is totally legal. Mob does not have to be able to attack the veno, but at least her pet. The only occation where this is bannable is where there is a glitch that prevents the mob from fighting back without resetting. The only one I am familiar with that glitches atm is Gouf. It is also bannable to kill veno's pets from outside a sz while they are inside sz, their reaction is funny.....not from experience from observation >_>

/10characters

SecretFlame - Archosaur

totally agree, specially in

1. Barbs tanking in 59. aaah stop asking for barbs to things other classes can tank, starting Qingzi a Wizard can tank it and requires less healing than a barb (I'm Cleric and Barb btw) there is Krixxix, Triox, Suserix and I dont remember others atm.

6. The squad got wiped at 'X' boss because the cleric wan't healing everyone. ahhh I hate when DD get stupid at bosses compiting for who gets the bigest Crit hit, ... assasins with so little HP and worst defense in game, and Psys with their -16 defense lvl love to do this and then QQ *why didnt you instant heal me with your super healing mind reading skills cleric*

this thread should be a must read for ppl getting in their 30-40

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Allisandre - Sanctuary wrote: »

After playing the game for a very long time I am often surprised that the things that people don't know, realize, or misunderstand. So I figured I'd fire off a thread listing them. I do ask that you post respectfully and that the troll stay out, but I know that won't happen so I'll just suck the good points out later and update this, the primary list.

1. Barbs tanking in 59. All of the bosses have magical attacks and barbs just don't have any decent magical defense. HP isn't the issue here, and a wizard can hold aggro if the rest of the squad plays smart. So please, stop thinking the barb is always the tanker. (Also not that Drake and Glutt have a fire DoT attack and whoever is tanking needs to be purified regularly so that these to stack up badly.)(Almost forgot to mention that the same is true for Calcid and Trioc in 39.)

2. The veno pulls. With the addition of genies, it is possible for other classes to pull. HOWEVER, if you have a veno in the squad, let them pull. If you decide that you wish to pull with your genie instead, then discuss it beforehand. Many a party is wiped because the veno goes to pull and some other player decides that he/she will instead.

3. Do BH's to level up. While BH is a great tool to level, and is awesome for filling that gap in the higher levels, leveling exclusively with BH is just going to make life harder for you. Sure you can get from 0 to 60 in 5 days, but what have you learned? Now you've got a huge pile of skills to learn and no money or spirit needed to learn them. For venomancers it is especially hard keeping the pets caught up with your level. Do your quests first, and fill in the space after quests with BH. You'll play better when you know how to play your character and have the skills you need to not fail.

4. You have to spend money to do good in the game. No, this is absolutely not true. I hardly spend any money in the cash shop, and when I do, it's usually just a couple of charms when they are on sale. I've for a 94cleric with good gear that does TW, an 82 barb, also with excellent gear for his level, and a few other characters that have done just fine without spending oodles of cash on the game. Use your coins wisely, farm and merchant for the extra cash you need and you'll do just fine.

5. A venomancer is worthless if she doesn't have a herc. Yes the herc is good, but it's not that exclusive anymore. The abilities of the herc were nerfed many months ago and it is much more difficult for a herc to hold aggro. The only difference between a walker and a herc at level 90 is about 1200hp and the skills. My walker will actually take aggro from an equally leveled herc if I'm not careful. So knock it off and let non-herced venos do FCC ect.

6. The squad got wiped at 'X' boss because the cleric wan't healing everyone. Clerics seems to get blamed a lot for people dying, especially at bosses. Never mind that the archer/assasin/blademaster was going all out in an effort to prove how OP they were and take aggro from the barb. What usually happens is that the cleric is focused on healing the barb, someone without enough HP to tank gets aggro, and pandemonium ensues. When you take aggro, it resets the values. Also, there's is some delay in seeing that a person is taking aggro and noticing their hp drop, selecting said individual, and then beginning the healing process. Typically, they die, and the aggro goes to the next individual dealing a lot of damage. Give the clerics a break and pay attention to how you are fighting and what you are aggroing. (Also keep in mine that hyper-leveled clerics often have sucky heal skills because they can't afford to level them)

7. Reflect will reduce the damage I take. Bramble guard does not reduce your damage taken all it does is return some of the attackers damage back to them. Skill Description: "Cast a bramble shield of protection on a friendly target. Returns XX% of melee damage to attackers." The Psychic version reads similarly but with a lot more words because of the soulforce.

8. Skills and equips boost your flying speed. Specifically True Form, SumerSprint, gear that adds to speed ect. No matter what class you are, or gear or whatever, your base flying speed is 5. The Aerogear will add to that, along with apoc speed boosts and the white genies base skill. (forget the names, will add later.)

9. Venomancers can get banned for attacking ground mobs from the air, with an air pet. As long as the mob is able to fight back it is totally legal. Mob does not have to be able to attack the veno, but at least her pet. The only occation where this is bannable is where there is a glitch that prevents the mob from fighting back without resetting. The only one I am familiar with that glitches atm is Gouf.

That's all I can think of at the moment

1. who the f cares... an archer can probably tank better then a wiz at that level.

2. veno lures are slow... when in doubt rambo.

3. bh is actually a great way to learn your class. whats solo grind going to teach you about skills?

4. any half assed noob can tw... just cause you tw doesn't mean you are remotely skilled. and yes... to be worth anything you either have to A. charge zhen or B. merchant.

5. wait what... since when they nerf the herc... people should really tell me these things. herc isn't nerf at all... its just the instances got harder. even then... herc is still the best pet by far. and yes... any veno with a herc will be that much ahead of a veno without one. 1.2k hp is actually a WHOLE ****ING A LOT.

8. holy ****... people really should tell me these things. i don't know what to say here... this just make you look stupid. you mention every speed boost skill... except the one that actually increase fly speed.

9. dude... people should really tell those nix training venos in that 1 past map with all the easy mobs.

Eoria - Harshlands

GreenBeans wrote:

veno without herc is useless

Wrong.

Venos are not just their pet. People here need to get this out of their heads.

Venos just by themselves have a myriad of uses:

1. Amplify damage
2. Pdef break
3. 100% chance of debuff (purge) unlike the debuff bow, crossbow, and spear
4. Longer lure range than a genie
5. AOE seal/freeze
6. Chi switch
7. And if sage, there's the sharptooth effect on sage Soul Degen

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Wrong.

Venos are not just their pet. People here need to get this out of their heads.

Venos just by themselves have a myriad of uses:

1. Amplify damage
2. Pdef break
3. 100% chance of debuff (purge) unlike the debuff bow, crossbow, and spear
4. Longer lure range than a genie
5. AOE seal/freeze
6. Chi switch
7. And if sage, there's the sharptooth effect on sage Soul Degen

while herc does not make a veno good... a good veno will have a herc... its just how the games work. decent/good players will always get the best of everything... and herc is at the top of its class.

GreenBeans - Dreamweaver

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Wrong.

Venos are not just their pet. People here need to get this out of their heads.

Venos just by themselves have a myriad of uses:

1. Amplify damage
2. Pdef break
3. 100% chance of debuff (purge) unlike the debuff bow, crossbow, and spear
4. Longer lure range than a genie
5. AOE seal/freeze
6. Chi switch
7. And if sage, there's the sharptooth effect on sage Soul Degen

plume shell, dimensional seal, plume shot gg.

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary

One is the only legit one.
The rest fail.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Kiyoshi wrote:

3. bh is actually a great way to learn your class. whats solo grind going to teach you about skills?

Plenty, if you're low-leveled.

You've been around awhile, Kiyoshi. Are you telling me you don't remember when you learned that Lightning Strike wasn't subjected to the damage penalty at melee range? Or that Frost Arrow was a good PVE opener (and that you could get by with only it and Knockback Arrow in standard grinding to save MP)? Or that the description on Aim Low isn't accurate, and trying to "stun" something in casting range of you would still make you take damage? I remember learning all those things while grinding and questing before I was lv30.

Can I start a character I know nothing about, chug Scarlet Fruits until I'm 30 and then Oracle the rest of the way? Sure I could, but I'd suck at the character. They're called "Oracle Noobs" for a reson.

Or to throw out an analogy... it's like you gave me a gigantic rocket launcher. Cool, right? Now I can do a lot of damage! 'Cept, y'know, since I've never actually held a rocket launcher in my life or trained to fire one properly and accurately, I'm more of a threat to myself and everyone around me.

Re-read the OP's argument. Are BHs useful and necessary? Sure, especially after 60 or so. But you seem to think the OP is talking that period, when she specifically referenced people going from "0 to 60 in 5 days." Not the same thing.




EDIT: Oh, and the herc bias is total bull. If my veno ever reaches a level where people care, I don't want to hear any lip for not spending $80 on an alt to get the single most overpopulated and uninteresting pet in the game.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

3. BH does give you spirit, I don't get where you get the idea that BH gives you XP without giving you spirit.

4. Go get rank 9 without cash shopping.

5. A herc is a sign of a good veno, at higher levels if a veno still doesn't have a herc it's probably because the veno is bad.

7. It helps hold aggro though

8. No one over level 60 thinks that's true.

Silest - Sanctuary

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

while herc does not make a veno good... a good veno will have a herc... its just how the games work. decent/good players will always get the best of everything... and herc is at the top of its class.

Herc is not everything >_>. It can't tank some mobs.

Also veno lure is slow? lol.... Yeah maybe til 41.

ZAPATON - Sanctuary

1. Barbs tanking in 59. You're right, magic classes do better than barbs here... but barbs can still do it. Its up to the squad.

2. The veno pulls. Hm... Some venomancers, even up to high lvls, aren't really "experienced" with pull and end up pulling 2 or 3 mobs instead of just 1, due to, for example, forgetting that their hercules was brambled when sent to pull. In some occasions, even the venomancer him/her/itself will prefer for someone to pull with genie (if its faster, and/or safer for him/her/it and the fellow pet). But yes, any squad member that wishes to pull with genie, should let the venomancer (and the squad) know before.

Edit: Also for people comparing venomancer lure with genie lure, venomancers have 2 ways of luring:
- With their pet
- With pet tame skill

3. Do BH's to level up. I do agree that you learn your fair amount of how to play your class doing quests. However, you also learn to play your class as a team member in BHs.

4. You have to spend money to do good in the game. I agree completely on this one. Besides, what "best", "top rate", "excellent", etc; means, depends on each individual's point of view, and what his/her/its goals are.

5. A venomancer is worthless if she doesn't have a herc. I also agree on this one. But I believe a venomancer can learn to play its class through failure (just like any other class). With or without a hercules.

6. The squad got wiped at 'X' boss because the cleric wan't healing everyone. Seen a lot of this. But also seen a few cases where the cleric was actually guilty b:chuckle

7. Reflect will reduce the damage I take. I've run into people who believe that b:chuckle

8. Skills and equips boost your flying speed. Specifically True Form, SumerSprint, gear that adds to speed ect. Been there, done that b:surrender

9. Venomancers can get banned for attacking ground mobs from the air, with an air pet. That... and what about the "venomancers can get banned if they pull boss through door"? I'm not sure but I think that one is valid (while the air pet one only is valid if the mob/boss can't fight back).

Even if you did list every single one out there, and if the topic was turned into a Sticky, it seems to me that most players don't visit the forums untill they notice they've messed up their characters b:chuckle

Xoria - Sanctuary

PWE "fixed" the problem of venomancers luring through the door by adding an enemy that would attack the pet as it went for the boss (TT3-x).

I also agree that a venomancer should not be judge by the lack of one pet that costs 80m/ $200 respectively. A hercules will just make certain bosses "easier" to tank. Example: When a venomancer reaches that level to finally hit TT, if it has a hercules, she can solo ASAP. A shadou cub needs to level up a bit more; golems need a lot more levels than the cub or the hercules.

Venomancer lures are much safer than genie lures, in my honest opinion. They have a longer range and I've found a lot of people that pull with a genie will get to close and everything jumps in on the puller. If you know that a venomancer is going to pull, click on her pet and check to see if reflect is on; it shows up as a buff like it would on a player character.

I think what the original poster meant by not leveling skills from bounty hunts is the fact that bounty hunts don't give anywhere near as much as you would get if you went out and actually did quests and killed those monsters. Leveling Xoria, when double experience was rare, at level 40, she had all of her buffs maxed out. Going in and helping in random bounty hunts, I've found very few clerics, by the time they are level 6x, may not have those buffs maxed out/ have their AoE versions.

You can play this game without spending your pay- check on it. Nice to see someone threw in Rank 9. Didn't someone do the calculations and getting that, along with the gear that would make you get to 350k reputation, would cost, like, $19,000? This isn't the original version of the game where reputation drops like candy in Brimstone and Eden (or it used to).

I'd agree with what was originally posted aside from number 8; never looked into it myself as when I was buffed, I was too busy hurrying to where I needed to be.

ZAPATON - Sanctuary

Xoria - Sanctuary wrote: »

PWE "fixed" the problem of venomancers luring through the door by adding an enemy that would attack the pet as it went for the boss (TT3-x).

Did they do that to Qingzi's door too? b:question

MANray_ - Sanctuary

While i do certainly agree with you on most of the points listed, i would like to point out that certain misconceptions are not entirely baseless.

1. Barbs tanking 59. I've got near 5k mag def, 1 k phys and 3k hp unbuffed. I can't tank 59. Leaving aggro out of it (and i do some very decent damage for a veno my level) i'll need an exceptionally good Cleric to even stand a chance. Add DD that can effectively manage aggro and you'll realize in a PUG chances are bad we'll manage. Most robes at this level range don't even skill Alpha Male into their genies and they're generally not prepared to handle these bosses. I've seen far more Sins succeed at the job than all robe classes combined. And i've been running 59 for months now... Barbs and decent BMs are usually safer, i don't mean to carry on the misperception but practical reality does require that you consider the actual capabilities of players on the field, not what they should accomplish under ideal conditions.

2. Venos Pulling. Veno is almost without exception the better choice. I can honestly say i see it an average of once a run (again, i'm talking PUGs) that someone fails a pull using Earthflame. Some lures, like Ofotis, are really best left in the hands of venos as even the pet cleric/weak DD variety can handle such jobs with ease. Venos also have a secondary advantage in that a) they're usually more experienced about what to do when a pull goes wrong and b) they're expendable. Sure, Clerics can usually pull using Cyclone but this is rarely a good idea because you also have to deal with consequences. 90% of the time i've seen a Barb or BM miss a pull i've also seen a DD die, this doesn't happen as often with venos.

3. BH for leveling. This has become established practice. BH runs are more fun than grinding and will provide you with the better time to xp ratio. You shouldn't level as fast as you can however, unless you have adequate resources. I think this is where the distinction lies.

4. Money to do good. This is relative. If you want to own a nice aero and a couple of outfits i would recommend charging some zhen. Regardless of which at higher levels the costs of gearing/skilling alone will force you to either level at a very slow pace or to diminish your capabilities, which does impact squadwork. Then again you can always try merchanting...

5. Venomancer worthless without herc. I couldn't agree with you more but facts on the ground are if you want to regularly get into many instance runs you will need an herc. I'm an hercless veno myself, it odes mean you'll have to adjust to ocassional rudeness and being left out of many things.

6. Cleric wasn't healing everyone. Yes, i agree the Cleric is not to blame for deaths caused by DD's failure to manage aggro. However acting fast is also a part of the Cleric's job and sometimes DD make for better tanks than HA types. Precisely the point for robes at 59... I have seen squads wiped because the Cleric was too centered on the tank when it is DD that was more in need of help. All classes should know how to adjust to different players and situations.

7. Reflect will reduce damage. This is an easy mistake to make as the skill description does encourage ambiguity. I see little harm coming from this however as whoever will need damage reduction will likely want aggro as well. And most players do shy away from Bramble anyway.

8. Noobie mistake, this isn't much of a serious issue, and on the other hand does have the potential to make for some very amusing anecdotes.

9. Again, nothing too important. BTW, i do try to avoid using airpets when facing land bosses. The problem is venos using an air pet are likely airborne when doing so which can lead to complications (PQ boss resetting) apart from a diminished damage output. Personally i've always considered ranged classes attacking from the air on PvE to be somewhat cowardly, but that's just an opinion.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Plenty, if you're low-leveled.

You've been around awhile, Kiyoshi. Are you telling me you don't remember when you learned that Lightning Strike wasn't subjected to the damage penalty at melee range? Or that Frost Arrow was a good PVE opener (and that you could get by with only it and Knockback Arrow in standard grinding to save MP)? Or that the description on Aim Low isn't accurate, and trying to "stun" something in casting range of you would still make you take damage? I remember learning all those things while grinding and questing before I was lv30.

Can I start a character I know nothing about, chug Scarlet Fruits until I'm 30 and then Oracle the rest of the way? Sure I could, but I'd suck at the character. They're called "Oracle Noobs" for a reson.

Or to throw out an analogy... it's like you gave me a gigantic rocket launcher. Cool, right? Now I can do a lot of damage! 'Cept, y'know, since I've never actually held a rocket launcher in my life or trained to fire one properly and accurately, I'm more of a threat to myself and everyone around me.

Re-read the OP's argument. Are BHs useful and necessary? Sure, especially after 60 or so. But you seem to think the OP is talking that period, when she specifically referenced people going from "0 to 60 in 5 days." Not the same thing.




EDIT: Oh, and the herc bias is total bull. If my veno ever reaches a level where people care, I don't want to hear any lip for not spending $80 on an alt to get the single most overpopulated and uninteresting pet in the game.

i learn from a very different time (in game) then you. i started the game on the first weekend it was out... and was more or less in the top 10% (level wise) of the game. most of my learning came from fbs... just cause there is so many of them and so little people to actually do them. i probably never really grinded until those death knights next to 1k.

there is actually nothing wrong with oracles... provided you actually learn all the skills afterwards. my sin was babied from 0-90 by an 100+ arch/veno/cleric and bh100 exp cubes... his weapon progression went from lvl 10 supply dagger to 43 mold dagger to 80 mold to tt99 gold. i learned everything on my sin in fb79/89/frost... with no quests. and now whenever anyone wanted me for anything... they don't just ask if you wanna come.... they ask you wanna come on your sin.

a herc/nix to a veno is like a cv to an archer. the weapon doesn't make the archer... but you can bet that any named archer will have an cv (or better).... same logic. yea... herc/nix is expensive... but any named veno will have them. while its not good to judge a veno by the pet... the pet is a good indicator of the effort put in to the veno.

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide

Who cares if barb or wizzy tanks. Both will survive.

Carnica - Heavens Tear

Allisandre - Sanctuary wrote: »

2. The veno pulls. With the addition of genies, it is possible for other classes to pull. HOWEVER, if you have a veno in the squad, let them pull. If you decide that you wish to pull with your genie instead, then discuss it beforehand. Many a party is wiped because the veno goes to pull and some other player decides that he/she will instead.

I've always pulled in FBs and never pulled a mob down to party-wipe us all... the few times I've had problems I did the smart thing and let the monsters get me then rezzed by the cleric. b:victory

5. A venomancer is worthless if she doesn't have a herc. Yes the herc is good, but it's not that exclusive anymore. The abilities of the herc were nerfed many months ago and it is much more difficult for a herc to hold aggro. The only difference between a walker and a herc at level 90 is about 1200hp and the skills. My walker will actually take aggro from an equally leveled herc if I'm not careful. So knock it off and let non-herced venos do FCC ect.

Absolutely. So sick of seeing in WC "LF HERC VENO for FF". Don't tell me which pet I need to use, you know nothing about me, nor do you have a clue that I've been here since 2008, I have a lot of good pets (Including a NIX!) and I have not felt the need to blow another $200 on a Herc. (Several of my pets have Herc Skills, too.)

Judge a Veno by their skills and experience, not by what pet they have, sheesh.

For those who disagree, how would you like other classes telling you what sword/bow/weapon to use?

ChopChop - Raging Tide

100% agree with the op .
Kisma is another boss thats glitched from air pets.

Omni and Kashu 2 of the 49 culti bosses are also easier to tank with magic classes.

As for those that say cash shoping your gear makes you worth something, i totaly think the opposite . It just makes life easier for people who cant be bothered to put in the effort .

Sadly thats what PWI has become, a worthles game that measures your character not by how good you can play but by how much you spent on your gear.

I guess the next step is to add a rep item to cash shop so people dont have to put the effort in for that aswell.

Xoria - Sanctuary

Also, on note of a Hercules pet, wasn't there some long discussion and long time ago that in the original Perfect World, no one uses a hercules pet because a pet frog, given all of herc's skills, makes a far better tanker?

I know I've read that somewhere.... b:puzzled

Renza - Raging Tide

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

5. A herc is a sign of a good veno, at higher levels if a veno still doesn't have a herc it's probably because the veno is bad.

erm, in what reference? they were skilled enough to whip out a CC and throw 80-120$ into PWE's face?
or they were that addicted to the game, to farm farm farm farm farm insanely, not buy anything apart from envenom parasite on terms of skills whilst you have a partner grinding every day for about 10 hours for DQ
or get to a good enough lvl to keep doing solo TT runs for as much cash as possible and/ or find a good merchanting technique to get an insane amount of cash in persistent merchanting keeping ur comp on 24/7?

uhmm i can definatly see how that makes a good veno lol, my veno has a herc, i threw money at PW for it, thing is i used a veno from pw-my for about 1-2 year so i already new how to play one properly, but cash handling doesnt = good at there class.

i rly wish ppl wud stop making such a stupid assumption of *you haz herc? u gewd!*, leme just say, ive seen some terrible herc venos, such as a veno that was stupid enough to get rid of bramble, the one skill that realy helps deal extra damage and keep agro, not bother to teach or level up the skill Bash for it, another good agro skill...

Xoria - Sanctuary wrote: »

PWE "fixed" the problem of venomancers luring through the door by adding an enemy that would attack the pet as it went for the boss (TT3-x).

ironicly, venos can still lure it through the door even without a herc, all they did was make it a tiny bit of a pain to get repetitively stuned if unsuccessful.

Xoria - Sanctuary

Renza - Raging Tide wrote: »

ironicly, venos can still lure it through the door even without a herc, all they did was make it a tiny bit of a pain to get repetitively stuned if unsuccessful.

Hence the quotes around fixed~ b:thanks

Renza - Raging Tide

Xoria - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hence the quotes around fixed~ b:thanks

*silly me*

but u cant use the words "fixed" in PW, thats only a myth b:chuckle

Airyll - Dreamweaver

1. BH59 can be tanked by mage classes, but at the same time the amount of sheer fail this can lead to is beyond stupid. If you don't know what I mean, let me tell you the story of the multiple number of wizards or clerics I have watched who

a) attack the boss while in melee range, take aggro and die in a few hits
b) don't purify themselves while on Drake or Glutt and then complain and cry about it when they die
c) downright can't tank in the first place, die half way through and then ask us to save the boss while they town and run back

From personal experience? Archers and assassins both do better at tanking BH59 bosses then many magic classes I've watched. It's safer to have a barb tank, even if it's not necessary.

5. A venomancer without a Herc shouldn't be deemed as useless. Plenty of skilled venomancers out there do not have Hercs and as such, refuse to get them. The Magmite or the cub can be equally great at tanking if they have the same skills (and therefore, buffs) that the Herc starts with.

At the same time, a 1.2k difference in HP is nothing to be sniffed at and, as such, can make the difference between life or death. It's all very well downplaying the HP of a pet because you think it's defence is uber, but a bet with ultimately high defence but low HP isn't necessarily a better choice. Herc isn't necessary but it is the best pet in terms of tanking.
(Hercs also tend to cover up and hide a lot of **** ups made by venomancers, so saying that a veno with a Herc is indefinitely better then one without is stupid to say in the first instance.)

On that note, however, because the Herc is viewed as the better pet... if you aren't willing to get one, you aren't really in a position to complain about everybody who asks for one. Complain about the people who view Herc venos as worthless all you like but a Herc makes things easier on both venomancer and squad and not everybody who wants a venomancer to have a Herc does it because they think all others suck ***. Sometimes it is genuinely because the Herc is the better choice of pet and it's safer to go with that option. If you aren't willing to get a Herc to be in with the crowd? Well... deal with it.

Also, somebody earlier asked "How would other classes like it if they were told which weapon to use?"

Maybe you're blind or maybe you just haven't noticed, but they are. Or have you conveniently remained ignorant to everybody who is now asking for 5aps DDs (AKA fist users) because then you can act like you're the only class being subjected to this sort of talk. News flash: you aren't. Stop acting like it.

Allisandre - Sanctuary

Xoria - Sanctuary wrote: »

Also, on note of a Hercules pet, wasn't there some long discussion and long time ago that in the original Perfect World, no one uses a hercules pet because a pet frog, given all of herc's skills, makes a far better tanker?

I know I've read that somewhere.... b:puzzled

Yes, PW-MY is pretty solid on using the frog. I find that it makes an awesome tank for magic bosses. (may be better than the herc, but without the hp, or a herc to campare with yet, I'm not sure) So my two main land pets at the moment are a Walker with Roar, Bash, Tough and Flesh Ream. The Frog which still has it's base skills, a Cloud Skatefish with Thunderbolt, Icicle, and Fireball (still deciding on 4th skill maybe flesh ream), A Tabby Plumdrop that I mostly use for the debuffing skills, and a Turtle which I struggle to keep leveled, but so far outclasses the other water pets I've come across. BTW, all pets skills are maxed for their level with the exception of the tabby and the turtle. I'm discovering that very few people, even those with hercs, know or bother to level the skills on their pets.

Note: the Walker has almost exactly the same Def as the Rocks do, but more DD power and comes with better skills. (plus they are level 2) The cloud skatefish at level 60 had almost exactly the same defense as the foxwing, but did almost 2x the damage that the foxwing did.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Just to clear this up. As popular as the frog may be in PW-MY (and it really is a pity we don't get to see much of them here) it will never be as good as an herc, even if given the self buffs. The herc's base stats far exceed those of any other land pet and the Frog will in general terms be outperformed by even some non legendary pets such as the Glacial Walker. It's only advantage relative to the Shaodu Cub is damage.

I strongly disagree with the idea that a veno is useless without an herc, but the fact remains the capabilities of one do almost make for different roles for herc'ed and unherc'ed venos. The Scorp and the Wanderer do outdamage the herc, and are better suited for the dps role, while the characteristics of many other pets allow them to compete in either specialized roles (ranged tanking/pulling) or those which may require the use of certain pet skills (Howl, Shriek). Personally i use a Tabby and a Shaodu Cub and do feel i can bring much to a squad (i don't have an herc because of personal choice) but it would be wishful thinking to believe my pets could ever match an herc or fulfill it's role.

Having said this, there are only two basic roles which do require an herc; tanking and crowd control. The herc is basically worse at any of such roles than specialized classes and will simply be only more convenient. Do keep in mind this basically comes down to somewhat easing the pressure on a rookie Cleric or saving a Barb's repair bill. And this convenience does come at the cost of time, those squads requiring hercs are going at a much slower pace they could otherwise be, and basically wasting an enormous part of the potential of their DDs. True, if you can't find a tank/Cleric combo the herc can substitute, but since solo TT runs are no longer worth it for most venos this basically comes down to having an easier time recruiting for a BH, not an easier time on the run as this basically means everyone must significantly gimp the damage output.

Personally i don't think it's worth it to have an herc perform a role better suited for a Barb/BM or even other classes but this is a call for every squad to make. This doesn't mean we should engage in unproductive and delussional reasoning however, no other land pet can match an herc's full potential.

Xoria - Sanctuary

Renza - Raging Tide wrote: »

*silly me*

but u cant use the words "fixed" in PW, thats only a myth b:chuckle

b:chuckle

Allisandre - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm discovering that very few people, even those with hercs, know or bother to level the skills on their pets.

Now that is very scary indeed! b:shocked b:embarrass

Roriror - Lost City

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

1. who the f cares... an archer can probably tank better then a wiz at that level.

2. veno lures are slow... when in doubt rambo.

3. bh is actually a great way to learn your class. whats solo grind going to teach you about skills?

4. any half assed noob can tw... just cause you tw doesn't mean you are remotely skilled. and yes... to be worth anything you either have to A. charge zhen or B. merchant.

5. wait what... since when they nerf the herc... people should really tell me these things. herc isn't nerf at all... its just the instances got harder. even then... herc is still the best pet by far. and yes... any veno with a herc will be that much ahead of a veno without one. 1.2k hp is actually a WHOLE ****ING A LOT.

8. holy ****... people really should tell me these things. i don't know what to say here... this just make you look stupid. you mention every speed boost skill... except the one that actually increase fly speed.

9. dude... people should really tell those nix training venos in that 1 past map with all the easy mobs.

1.No an archer that lvl can't.

2.impatient people like you are reason squads get wiped.

3.agreed with first part but second part... solo you use more skills and learn to survive. in squad you have help.

4.just ignorant. v.v

5.stop replacing venos with barbs and you shouldn't have to worry about this.

8.stop being so jumpy... so she forgot something... chill out.

all together my point to you sir.

you don't know everything stop pretending.

Haden - Dreamweaver

Allisandre - Sanctuary wrote: »

1. Barbs tanking in 59. All of the bosses have magical attacks and barbs just don't have any decent magical defense. HP isn't the issue here, and a wizard can hold aggro if the rest of the squad plays smart. So please, stop thinking the barb is always the tanker. (Also not that Drake and Glutt have a fire DoT attack and whoever is tanking needs to be purified regularly so that these to stack up badly.)(Almost forgot to mention that the same is true for Calcid and Trioc in 39.) Bm's can do it too XP

2. The veno pulls. With the addition of genies, it is possible for other classes to pull. HOWEVER, if you have a veno in the squad, let them pull. If you decide that you wish to pull with your genie instead, then discuss it beforehand. Many a party is wiped because the veno goes to pull and some other player decides that he/she will instead. eh, whoever is set, ready willing and able to do it I let them

3. Do BH's to level up. While BH is a great tool to level, and is awesome for filling that gap in the higher levels, leveling exclusively with BH is just going to make life harder for you. Sure you can get from 0 to 60 in 5 days, but what have you learned? Now you've got a huge pile of skills to learn and no money or spirit needed to learn them. For venomancers it is especially hard keeping the pets caught up with your level. Do your quests first, and fill in the space after quests with BH. You'll play better when you know how to play your character and have the skills you need to not fail. BH's are great for Learning squad based tactics and placement in squads, such as off tankers, damage dealers, healers and knowing when to, and when not to stop DD.

4. You have to spend money to do good in the game. No, this is absolutely not true. I hardly spend any money in the cash shop, and when I do, it's usually just a couple of charms when they are on sale. I've for a 94cleric with good gear that does TW, an 82 barb, also with excellent gear for his level, and a few other characters that have done just fine without spending oodles of cash on the game. Use your coins wisely, farm and merchant for the extra cash you need and you'll do just fine. Eh again, Learning a method against cashshopping , so long as you're patient and have time to learn how to fight off boredom you can play pwi without cashshopping.

5. A venomancer is worthless if she doesn't have a herc. Yes the herc is good, but it's not that exclusive anymore. The abilities of the herc were nerfed many months ago and it is much more difficult for a herc to hold aggro. The only difference between a walker and a herc at level 90 is about 1200hp and the skills. My walker will actually take aggro from an equally leveled herc if I'm not careful. So knock it off and let non-herced venos do FCC ect.
Most important things that make a herc an all class tanker killer are the skills it comes with. Buying a herc is the cheaper way, and method of getting their skills. However getting an armored bear with Strong, protect, blessing of the pack or reflect, then it becomes comparable, however the base stats on a herc still do over power the bear. However, you can manage the game without a herc if you're willing to pay twice as much to train it up, impressive, but pointless.

6. The squad got wiped at 'X' boss because the cleric wan't healing everyone. Clerics seems to get blamed a lot for people dying, especially at bosses. Never mind that the archer/assasin/blademaster was going all out in an effort to prove how OP they were and take aggro from the barb. What usually happens is that the cleric is focused on healing the barb, someone without enough HP to tank gets aggro, and pandemonium ensues. When you take aggro, it resets the values. Also, there's is some delay in seeing that a person is taking aggro and noticing their hp drop, selecting said individual, and then beginning the healing process. Typically, they die, and the aggro goes to the next individual dealing a lot of damage. Give the clerics a break and pay attention to how you are fighting and what you are aggroing. (Also keep in mine that hyper-leveled clerics often have sucky heal skills because they can't afford to level them)
the moment clerics stop getting blamed for getting people killed, is the moment tanks stop getting blamed for losing aggro

7. Reflect will reduce the damage I take. Bramble guard does not reduce your damage taken all it does is return some of the attackers damage back to them. Skill Description: "Cast a bramble shield of protection on a friendly target. Returns XX% of melee damage to attackers." The Psychic version reads similarly but with a lot more words because of the soulforce.

Veno's are the only class who have a reflect skill that reduces damage, Bramblehood; so technically, yes that is correct, but in regards to the other reflective skills, nope.

8. Skills and equips boost your flying speed. Specifically True Form, SumerSprint, gear that adds to speed ect. No matter what class you are, or gear or whatever, your base flying speed is 5. The Aerogear will add to that, along with apoc speed boosts and the white genies base skill. (forget the names, will add later.)
2 skills boost your flight speed, Essential Sutra Psychic skill, and Wind Force Discipline initial skill outside of that, you're correct, but its irrelevant because no one keeps the discipline initial skill.
9. Venomancers can get banned for attacking ground mobs from the air, with an air pet. As long as the mob is able to fight back it is totally legal. Mob does not have to be able to attack the veno, but at least her pet. The only occation where this is bannable is where there is a glitch that prevents the mob from fighting back without resetting. The only one I am familiar with that glitches atm is Gouf.
Gouf Aerox cheif, Kimsa Claw king glitch

b:surrender

Lenore - Harshlands

Carnica - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Judge a Veno by their skills and experience, not by what pet they have, sheesh.

For those who disagree, how would you like other classes telling you what sword/bow/weapon to use?

First of all, why would I be upset if someone told me to use my Heaven Shatterer instead of my Crimson Soulsmasher? They would be right, because HS is just a better bow and it serves not only myself but my party better. I guarantee you if I am level 100+ with a +12 bow that I found outside an fb19 cave, I certainly would not be welcome in BH100s as often as I'd like.

Secondly, you must have missed the tons of worldchats that specifically "tell" dps classes to use their claws.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Allisandre - Sanctuary wrote: »

After playing the game for a very long time I am often surprised that the things that people don't know, realize, or misunderstand. So I figured I'd fire off a thread listing them. I do ask that you post respectfully and that the troll stay out, but I know that won't happen so I'll just suck the good points out later and update this, the primary list.

1. Barbs tanking in 59. All of the bosses have magical attacks and barbs just don't have any decent magical defense. HP isn't the issue here, and a wizard can hold aggro if the rest of the squad plays smart. So please, stop thinking the barb is always the tanker. (Also not that Drake and Glutt have a fire DoT attack and whoever is tanking needs to be purified regularly so that these to stack up badly.)(Almost forgot to mention that the same is true for Calcid and Trioc in 39.)

2. The veno pulls. With the addition of genies, it is possible for other classes to pull. HOWEVER, if you have a veno in the squad, let them pull. If you decide that you wish to pull with your genie instead, then discuss it beforehand. Many a party is wiped because the veno goes to pull and some other player decides that he/she will instead.

3. Do BH's to level up. While BH is a great tool to level, and is awesome for filling that gap in the higher levels, leveling exclusively with BH is just going to make life harder for you. Sure you can get from 0 to 60 in 5 days, but what have you learned? Now you've got a huge pile of skills to learn and no money or spirit needed to learn them. For venomancers it is especially hard keeping the pets caught up with your level. Do your quests first, and fill in the space after quests with BH. You'll play better when you know how to play your character and have the skills you need to not fail.

4. You have to spend money to do good in the game. No, this is absolutely not true. I hardly spend any money in the cash shop, and when I do, it's usually just a couple of charms when they are on sale. I've for a 94cleric with good gear that does TW, an 82 barb, also with excellent gear for his level, and a few other characters that have done just fine without spending oodles of cash on the game. Use your coins wisely, farm and merchant for the extra cash you need and you'll do just fine.

5. A venomancer is worthless if she doesn't have a herc. Yes the herc is good, but it's not that exclusive anymore. The abilities of the herc were nerfed many months ago and it is much more difficult for a herc to hold aggro. The only difference between a walker and a herc at level 90 is about 1200hp and the skills. My walker will actually take aggro from an equally leveled herc if I'm not careful. So knock it off and let non-herced venos do FCC ect.

6. The squad got wiped at 'X' boss because the cleric wan't healing everyone. Clerics seems to get blamed a lot for people dying, especially at bosses. Never mind that the archer/assasin/blademaster was going all out in an effort to prove how OP they were and take aggro from the barb. What usually happens is that the cleric is focused on healing the barb, someone without enough HP to tank gets aggro, and pandemonium ensues. When you take aggro, it resets the values. Also, there's is some delay in seeing that a person is taking aggro and noticing their hp drop, selecting said individual, and then beginning the healing process. Typically, they die, and the aggro goes to the next individual dealing a lot of damage. Give the clerics a break and pay attention to how you are fighting and what you are aggroing. (Also keep in mine that hyper-leveled clerics often have sucky heal skills because they can't afford to level them)

7. Reflect will reduce the damage I take. Bramble guard does not reduce your damage taken all it does is return some of the attackers damage back to them. Skill Description: "Cast a bramble shield of protection on a friendly target. Returns XX% of melee damage to attackers." The Psychic version reads similarly but with a lot more words because of the soulforce.

8. Skills and equips boost your flying speed. Specifically True Form, SumerSprint, gear that adds to speed ect. No matter what class you are, or gear or whatever, your base flying speed is 5. The Aerogear will add to that, along with apoc speed boosts and the white genies base skill. (forget the names, will add later.)

9. Venomancers can get banned for attacking ground mobs from the air, with an air pet. As long as the mob is able to fight back it is totally legal. Mob does not have to be able to attack the veno, but at least her pet. The only occation where this is bannable is where there is a glitch that prevents the mob from fighting back without resetting. The only one I am familiar with that glitches atm is Gouf.

That's all I can think of at the moment

I've got into some heated arguments over #7..

Do you think we can dispel some myths about Holeen in frost too?

Carnica - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Absolutely. So sick of seeing in WC "LF HERC VENO for FF". Don't tell me which pet I need to use, you know nothing about me, nor do you have a clue that I've been here since 2008, I have a lot of good pets (Including a NIX!) and I have not felt the need to blow another $200 on a Herc. (Several of my pets have Herc Skills, too.)

Judge a Veno by their skills and experience, not by what pet they have, sheesh.

For those who disagree, how would you like other classes telling you what sword/bow/weapon to use?

Will your skills and experience help a scorpion or magmite or glacial walker hold aggro against DD classes? Highly doubtful. Not even hercs can hold aggro at some point when archers/sins/BM's do so much dps, but people wanting herc veno's are certainly not in the wrong. If you can afford a nix you can definitely afford a herc, though it seems your ego has trouble not taking personally people prefering a herc veno over you with your likely crappy ground/instance pet. *shrugs*