Assassin vs Fist BM?

DarkHam - Harshlands wrote: »

Funny how TideBorns have so much pride after only being out for a week x.X

its not about pride. its about other classes saying the sins and psys suck and have no uses compared to the classes already out. and alot of us are trying to prove that that is not true. alot of ppl are saying that fist BMs/archers will annialate sins and that wizzards/venos will annialate psys when they NEVER even fought a high lvled sin/psy before. its stupid to make these claims and ppl seem to make reasons to why the other classes own the new classes. and we simply give reasons to defend the class. u cant make such claims without even facing a 70+ or 80+ sin.

all of my arguments have been speculation just like all of the counter arguments have been. NONE of us know how sins and psys will play out in high lvls. but saying a sin/psy will be useless and that other classes will outperform them is just stupid. its even been said countless times by both the devs of PW AND the GMs that the assassin and psy class are great pvp classes with unparalled dmg potential. u can not ignore such statements coming straight from the higher ups and makers of this game.

not to mention that some of the high lvl daggers allow us to atk outside of other melee classes atk range while they are being stuned/slept/immobilized. if ur going to make such statements on how a fist BM or archer will own a sin u cant ignore these things. same goes for psy and there extremly fast channeling combined with high power.

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

u rly have the spirits and coin to max both fist skills and pole skills? this is a legitimate question btw. also while ur skill does give 25% crit rate, at higher lvls we will NATURALLY have about that same ammount of crit rate and a skill to increase that crit rate even more.

i max all 4 paths every level

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

charm tick is 10 seconds bm stunlock can last forever at sage demon with fists for chi yes we'll eventually miss or have aleion fail but 10 seconds is all we need realy

sorry for the double post

Maze steps
A special movement of tide born assassins. increase own movement speed and become immune to stuns and immobilization


i don't have it yet but i should tomorrow i hope, and if the description is correct and it does only use one spark then makes stunning a sin pretty hard and there are anti stun genie skills =]

ArkToNE - Harshlands wrote: »

With level 10 skills

Dagger Mastery +60% Dagger Damage
Chill of the Deep +30 Attack Levels
Subsea Strike +30% Damage Amp for 8 seconds (stacks with BM Dragon, but not Extreme Poison)
Wolf Emblem +30% Critical Damage

Inner Harmony 200 Chi (at level 10, 150 at level 1), Rising Dragon Strike 150 Chi, Shadow Escape 100 Chi, Tackling Strike 50 Chi. This totals to 500 chi (5 sparks) that can be gained EXTREMELY quickly.

So you can spark erupt 5 times, advanced 2 times with 1 spark stock, and demon/sage 1 time with 2 spark stock.

Replacement? No, noteworthy? Oh yes.

gonna be endless demon spark xD.

While Assassins don't have too much of a chance against BMs, we can irritate them to no end. With skills that reduce the BM's attack speed by 50% (lasts 30 seconds, can be recast every 8 seconds), and additional 25% Physical Attack Skill evasion, Fist BMs are going to find themselves having a hard time keeping up with the damage they're used to dishing even with Misty Forest rings. This is just for the defensive aspect.

As an offense, the Assassin can reach 30 Attack levels, meaning they'll always pierce through the armor to some extent. They also have the option to remain spark erupted the entire fight or constantly 30% Amp to add that extra damage. As if that wasn't bad enough, they have to deal with being slept every 15 seconds, immobilized every 15 seconds, and stunned every time the Assassin uses Shadow Teleport.


In the end. All melee classes are going to have a rough time fighting assassins. They'd still have a good chance of winning, but they're still going to run into a large bit of trouble.

Assasins will likely do more dps until demon spark wears off, unless they can hit 5 attacks per second. If not, they wont be able to 'spam spark' like fist bm (or fist barb, even higher dps!) But this is fine, as assasin will NOT want to do that kind of dps against anything that takes that long to kill. Only thing that takes that kind of punishment is a boss, and LA sins are NOT gonna want to tank. However, if sin buffs work with other weapons, someone may try to roll a HA fist sin to out dps fist bm's, and even fist barbs. b:shocked

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

u rly have the spirits and coin to max both fist skills and pole skills? this is a legitimate question btw.

Lol.... Seriously have you never played a BM before? The original post was talking about maxed level, equips and such so yeah more than just the fist path would be maxed, My cleric is 90 and has all skills maxed (4 or 5 demon skills) and still has about 3m spirit left over.

FadeDaggers - Lost City wrote: »

Thts maybe because ur 90 but if the sin is same lvl as the bm as mentioned in thread u wont be able to see or target him

Im not talking about my cleric seeing them.

maocchi wrote: »

If crit rate is going to decide who wins...

Fist BM with Dragon Bane + Demonic Eruption = epic win.

Stun won't come in play majority of the times since both classes have skills that prevent any form of freeze/slow down.

Fist BMs also have Golden Bell + Marrow Physical which would render most physical damage nearly harmless.

Do we also want to mention that Fist BMs have access to Diamon Sutra, a survival skill that dominates over any survival skills Assassins have?

Also, if the Assassin allows the BM to hit him enough times, he would drop before DoT can do its job.

Lastly, Fist BM not having a large arsenal of skills is not a minus. The greatest damage of Fist BMs come from auto attacking, not skills. Will of Bodhistava + auto attack can probably drop the Assassin. Of course, this is just my speculation and in no way a fact.

And no, I'm not biased towards fists. I have both Fist BM and an Assassin. Assassin is indeed powerful but when it comes to growth rate, Fist BM grows more and more useful while Assassin has no noticeable change in usefulness.

At least some people who play this game has some sense in how pvp works.

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

k, u guys can take what im about to say with a grain of salt and believe it or not believe it, but i just seen a duel between a 70+ (oracle noob) sin against a 70+ HA axe BM. the sin won 3 times in a row... the guy was doing insane spike dmg with his crits =/. the BM did beat the sin twice aswell tho. one of the sins skill (idk which one it was but it was one of the lvl 59 skills im sure) took nearly half the BMs HP when it critted.

now u guys can beleive that or not, but afterwhat i seen i can now fully beleive in the power of a sin. and the dude was a supposed oracle noob even so think of how a skilled sin player would do.b:surrender

Axe BM have a different build than fist bm because they have less dex which means its more likely that the sin could get a hit on him but since fist bm have a ton of dex the eva rate increases so it would be more difficult

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

so, we bringing evasion into this argument now...? well if thats the case, who do u think will have more evasion in the end. a HA fist BM or a full dex sin?b:bye

if we going to talk about it being more dificult because of evasion them a fist BM will definatly have a harder time hitting a sin because of there much higher evasion rates later on. not to mention all the other skills sins have to let them avoid things event more. a sin will also have more accuracy on top of that.

The BM would also have alot of accuracy but since the sin lacks phy def when they land a hit it will do most likely equal damage to what the sin has done in maybe 3 - 4 attacks (just a guess) Besides ive been archers get dropped by axe BMs and they follow the same build as a sin.

I was just saying that its likely that the lack of dex for the axe bm played a part in that duel since he would have lower acc and lower eva whereas fist users dont share that issue

Alot of players in PWI seem to not understand the reality about being a blademaster. That's not entirely their fault either. Terms such as a fist bm or a sword bm or an axe bm does not mean that bm only uses just that weapon. As a blademaster you use the weapon path that gives u the most advantage over ur opponent at the moment. All the BM skills come in handy and at 90+ you should have at least 3 paths of skills to choose from+ everything else. So to answer your question a BM whose main path is Fists still follows the same attack pattern that all bm's should and most do. You stunlock w/ whichever combo u have to completely make the oppnonent useless. so as soon as a BM stuns the sin, depending on the skill of the blademaster its allready over. For the sin it would depend heavily on how well they use their skills. Bleed wont do that much of damage to a Heavy armor user such as a Blademaster w/ all that HP. A sins best bet considering that both opponents have their skills at least to lvl 59, would be for a sin to keep the blademaster stuned for as long as possible. Therefore the outcome would depend greatly on the users of each class. If the Blademaster isnt great at stunning the sin may win. If the sin isnt great at using their skills at the right the time the blademaster could roll them. Really sins are supposed to be squishy target killers. they get in and they get out quickly. BM's are for massive pk parties stuning several targets adn killing them all at once. Sin is more for single target BM is more for multiple targets.

Lusca - Sanctuary wrote: »

what does a skill that stops the bm from being stunned or frozen help said bm to stun lock anything?

please roll a BM b4 u think u know how to play one. if a BM cant be stuned or frozen or slept that means a sin cant to anything to him but kite. However sins also have the same skill. so if its a smart sin they'll use that when the bm uses his

The reduction in attack power doesn't work the way you think it does. In fact its hardly noticeable at all.

you're supposed to cast dragon bane then triple spark to get rid of the reduction

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As for pure dps goes, Sin would win since a fist BM have to split points between STR for damage and DEX for crit while a Sin of the same level would have higher crit % while more points towards damage.

But 1 v 1 goes, I think fist BM would win. Imagine fighting an Archer that doesn't have metal damage and can only melee. The reason Archers are so powerful is because their high crit AND that they can do magic damage, which hurts a lot. Even if I don't stun lock the **** out of a Sin, just using Roar and Aeolian once in a while can mess up Sin's dps. Sin's gotta hit through HA while fist BM is punching at LA. Ask a demon fist BM to Dragon Bane and spark on an Archer for you and have the Archer not kite and see how fast the Archer drops. When I was fist fighting against Minigod, lvl 100 Archer, I had to Bane then spark at the start because I wasn't charmed and he was. He sparked right after I did of course, but when his immunity ran out, he died in a couple of seconds. It was so fast I couldn't believe it. I don't think I even had my FC fists and - int bracer at that moment.

sins are -.15 away from 5 hits per second so they'll never hit 5 per second stop saying their a dps class thier spike oreinted

Konariraiden - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Undine + Level 10 Black Ice Dragon Strike = Wizards Win.

this is a bm vs sin thread not a wizzie one >=[

go back to wizzie forums and teach oraclers how to pvp =P lolol