Assassin vs Fist BM?

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  • volst
    volst Posts: 180
    edited January 2010
    At level 100, any BM can probably just 1 shot any sin with Flash.

    Non-vit BM with 2k out of 13k HP + 10k attack + demon spark (use pot after) = 86k damage. Even if reduced by 1/4, that's still 21k. Stack it with EP = 25k damage. 50k with crit.

    Guaranteed hit. Sure you can try to just hide before it comes, but highly unlikely much of the sins (if any) has seen what this skill looks like and don't know when to expect it. The BM can also easily wait out deaden nerves buff.

    Additional example: 2k out of 13k HP + 10k atk + dragon + use tree with 100 str genie = 78k damage --> 20k pvp. 40k crit.
  • Lusca - Sanctuary
    Lusca - Sanctuary Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    volst wrote: »
    At level 100, any BM can probably just 1 shot any sin with Flash.

    Non-vit BM with 2k out of 13k HP + 10k attack + demon spark (use pot after) = 86k damage. Even if reduced by 1/4, that's still 21k. Stack it with EP = 25k damage. 50k with crit.

    Guaranteed hit. Sure you can try to just hide before it comes, but highly unlikely much of the sins (if any) has seen what this skill looks like and don't know when to expect it. The BM can also easily wait out deaden nerves buff.

    Additional example: 2k out of 13k HP + 10k atk + dragon + use tree with 100 str genie = 78k damage --> 20k pvp. 40k crit.

    well you are forgetting defense

    and you also seem to be forgetting nearly all sins aren't someones first character

    and sins can always stealth then sulk in a corner for a minute if deaden nerves runs out

    but the skill itself does look pretty powerful
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    volst wrote: »
    At level 100, any BM can probably just 1 shot any sin with Flash.

    Non-vit BM with 2k out of 13k HP + 10k attack + demon spark (use pot after) = 86k damage. Even if reduced by 1/4, that's still 21k. Stack it with EP = 25k damage. 50k with crit.

    Guaranteed hit. Sure you can try to just hide before it comes, but highly unlikely much of the sins (if any) has seen what this skill looks like and don't know when to expect it. The BM can also easily wait out deaden nerves buff.

    Additional example: 2k out of 13k HP + 10k atk + dragon + use tree with 100 str genie = 78k damage --> 20k pvp. 40k crit.

    for the price of this one skill you can get max - int and a few of the better 99 hell skills

    also it has a insane cool down and eats 2 sparks and can only really be used as a "las gasp" attack

    exedingly strong but its only gonna be good in 1 in 100 fights or less

    not sayin its bad but MSS or a bit of punching get the job done easier faster and are just generally more usefull for killing in a hurry
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • ElMiedo - Heavens Tear
    ElMiedo - Heavens Tear Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    We're talking strictly fist BM's right? In that case, a rib strike from the assasin should pretty much **** up the DPS of the BM seeing as how fist relies on auto-attacking.

    Realistically, a high leveled BM will have multi-pathed, and I don't think assasins can stand up to the damage capabilities of the other weapons. At least not for very long.
  • skyxiii
    skyxiii Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    volst wrote: »
    At level 100, any BM can probably just 1 shot any sin with Flash.

    Non-vit BM with 2k out of 13k HP + 10k attack + demon spark (use pot after) = 86k damage. Even if reduced by 1/4, that's still 21k. Stack it with EP = 25k damage. 50k with crit.

    Guaranteed hit. Sure you can try to just hide before it comes, but highly unlikely much of the sins (if any) has seen what this skill looks like and don't know when to expect it. The BM can also easily wait out deaden nerves buff.

    Additional example: 2k out of 13k HP + 10k atk + dragon + use tree withttp://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/images/smilies/shocked.gifh 100 str genie = 78k damage --> 20k pvp. 40k crit.

    If a sin sees his/her opponent sparking, they'll probably stealth.
    If bm uses pot, sins can use reduce damage pot.
    If BM tries to wait out Deaden? What's to keep the sin from attacking him?

    Barring pots, a pre-3 spark sin can get off at least 10 attack skills before the opponent is allowed to attack/cast by keeping the opponent ailed during the entire combo.
  • Lucifer - Dreamweaver
    Lucifer - Dreamweaver Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    to end this argument everyone should stop crying im sorry if i **** anyone off but a BM will always out do a sin sorry to say. Stuns and HA are enough and fists hit faster then daggers so TT90 Fists are better then ur daggers so end game Fist BM will hit faster with taking less damage from a sin due to HA....face it your role is to kill mages.....i fought a lvl 95 Sin and got his health down by half b4 geting killed witch is saying u are incredibly squishy if im over (at the time) 20 lvls lower then u (and im not a fist build straight axe) so if you kill a BM here or there thats good for you
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Lucifer - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    to end this argument everyone should stop crying im sorry if i **** anyone off but a BM will always out do a sin sorry to say. Stuns and HA are enough and fists hit faster then daggers so TT90 Fists are better then ur daggers so end game Fist BM will hit faster with taking less damage from a sin due to HA....face it your role is to kill mages.....i fought a lvl 95 Sin and got his health down by half b4 geting killed witch is saying u are incredibly squishy if im over (at the time) 20 lvls lower then u (and im not a fist build straight axe) so if you kill a BM here or there thats good for you

    Q_Q
    Lol...you do know that your post be a necro?
    by one day.....teh argument be over already lol...
    XD
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  • Aclucius - Lost City
    Aclucius - Lost City Posts: 260 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Lucifer - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    to end this argument everyone should stop crying im sorry if i **** anyone off but a BM will always out do a sin sorry to say. Stuns and HA are enough and fists hit faster then daggers so TT90 Fists are better then ur daggers so end game Fist BM will hit faster with taking less damage from a sin due to HA....face it your role is to kill mages.....i fought a lvl 95 Sin and got his health down by half b4 geting killed witch is saying u are incredibly squishy if im over (at the time) 20 lvls lower then u (and im not a fist build straight axe) so if you kill a BM here or there thats good for you

    As Hamsta said, you necroed a thread that was already over and done.

    Also, you obviously have forgotten that a lot of the high level Assassins at this time are Oracles, so you can't really say beating an Oracle is an achievement, especially since on Assassins, even if they have other high characters, simply because they don't know how to work with the Assassin.

    Assassins are squishy, but all they have to do is spam Puncture Wound, Rising Dragon Strike, Maze Step, and Deep Sting, combined with stealth. They do this, you will barely get any hits in on them, and you won't be able to stun lock them because of Maze Step.

    Sorry, but an Assassin who knows their class and skills well will beat a fist Blademaster. If they don't know their skills, then they really don't deserve to be at endgame.
  • maocchi
    maocchi Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Aclucius - Lost City wrote: »
    Assassins are squishy, but all they have to do is spam Puncture Wound, Rising Dragon Strike, Maze Step, and Deep Sting, combined with stealth. They do this, you will barely get any hits in on them, and you won't be able to stun lock them because of Maze Step.
    Only problem is that they can't spam it.
    Assassin will have to finish off the BM somehow before his combo reaches end and have to wait out another minute to restart the combo. It takes tremendous effort on Sin's part while it wouldn't take many hits from a BM for the Sin to drop dead.

    Look, we can keep throwing theories around all day, but it will accomplish nothing. Assassins have better skill utilities and BMs have more damage advantages. The only things that should be thrown in at this point are screenshots and videos.
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    On dreamweaver there is a level 100 sin and a level 100 fist BM. Both have 5 aps and equal gear. They are about even. The sin cant beat the BM and the BM can beat the sin. Both are really good at their class too.
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • StretchIt - Harshlands
    StretchIt - Harshlands Posts: 327 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    On dreamweaver there is a level 100 sin and a level 100 fist BM. Both have 5 aps and equal gear. They are about even. The sin cant beat the BM and the BM can beat the sin. Both are really good at their class too.

    how does the sin have 5aps without demon spark? b:shocked
    explain plox
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Trawne - Lost City
    Trawne - Lost City Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    StretchIt - Harshlands wrote: »
    how does the sin have 5aps without demon spark? b:shocked
    explain plox

    if he has all the interval gear and a 80 str genie relentless courage should put him at 5 aps. he just doesnt have the +xxx% damage to go with it b:laugh
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  • Aclucius - Lost City
    Aclucius - Lost City Posts: 260 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    On dreamweaver there is a level 100 sin and a level 100 fist BM. Both have 5 aps and equal gear. They are about even. The sin cant beat the BM and the BM can beat the sin. Both are really good at their class too.

    Could you provide screenshots/video?
  • Divine_Death - Dreamweaver
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,491 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    StretchIt - Harshlands wrote: »
    how does the sin have 5aps without demon spark? b:shocked
    explain plox

    I'm not sure if I cover it all but

    Nirvana Daggers: -0.1
    TT99 bracers: -0.1
    Rank armor: -0.1
    Cape+Tome: -0.1
    Lionheart set bonus: -0.05
    Ashura set bonus: -0.05
    (Nirvana leggings recast: -0.1?)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk
  • Killermate - Harshlands
    Killermate - Harshlands Posts: 437 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    On dreamweaver there is a level 100 sin and a level 100 fist BM. Both have 5 aps and equal gear. They are about even. The sin cant beat the BM and the BM can beat the sin. Both are really good at their class too.

    I want SSes
  • Divine_Death - Dreamweaver
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,491 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »
    I want SSes

    Of the gears or... the fight?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk
  • Killermate - Harshlands
    Killermate - Harshlands Posts: 437 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Of the gears or... the fight?

    Of the assassin's gears. I'm sin myself and i know it's not use to fight BM atm with not demon/sage skills or sparks.
  • Aclucius - Lost City
    Aclucius - Lost City Posts: 260 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    maocchi wrote: »
    Only problem is that they can't spam it.
    Assassin will have to finish off the BM somehow before his combo reaches end and have to wait out another minute to restart the combo. It takes tremendous effort on Sin's part while it wouldn't take many hits from a BM for the Sin to drop dead.

    Look, we can keep throwing theories around all day, but it will accomplish nothing. Assassins have better skill utilities and BMs have more damage advantages. The only things that should be thrown in at this point are screenshots and videos.

    I suppose it was my mistake for using the word spam when it does not correctly match what I meant.

    It doesn't matter how long they need to cool down for this combo, they only need to just repeat it. However, if they can manage, they can keep their own stun lock in while waiting to repeat this if necessary. Assassins have a variety of different ways to win these fights, they just really have to know how to use stealth to their advantage, and have lots of MP pots or a good charm.
  • Firefeng - Dreamweaver
    Firefeng - Dreamweaver Posts: 421 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »
    Of the assassin's gears. I'm sin myself and i know it's not use to fight BM atm with not demon/sage skills or sparks.

    The Assassin in question uses Deicide claws to reach 5 atks/sec, and double spark + wood apo, last I checked, which is enough to kill barbs with ~20k hp, and one of the best BMs on Dreamweaver. He doesn't have Nirvana daggers yet. Try using elemental damage apo next time you want to fight a heavy armor-user. He was hitting a level 100 Barb for over 1k damage five times a second.
    (Nirvana leggings recast: -0.1?)

    Recasted Nirvana legs are only -0.05, methinks. It's been a while since I've checked his gear, but I'm pretty sure he was sitting at -0.45 interval with daggers.
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  • Divine_Death - Dreamweaver
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,491 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »
    Of the assassin's gears. I'm sin myself and i know it's not use to fight BM atm with not demon/sage skills or sparks.

    K, so swordman's Sin has all that I posted execpet for the -0.1 daggers. He's using rank instead. TLN's Sin has the daggers but no rank plate or Nirvana leggings.

    Here's swordman's Sin's gears
    http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4885/20100219142512.png

    And this is TLN's Nirvana daggers
    http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/9206/20100219143129.png
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk
  • Zuenzu - Sanctuary
    Zuenzu - Sanctuary Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Well, I'm a 23 Assassin and I just fought a level 22 Fist BM and completely destroyed him, but I don't think that matters at all XD
  • StretchIt - Harshlands
    StretchIt - Harshlands Posts: 327 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    at level 20-25, neither of you have any great skills atm, sooo no biggie.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Zuenzu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Well, I'm a 23 Assassin and I just fought a level 22 Fist BM and completely destroyed him, but I don't think that matters at all XD
    You don't matter at all.
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • StretchIt - Harshlands
    StretchIt - Harshlands Posts: 327 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »
    You don't matter at all.

    roflcakes. b:chuckle
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Zuenzu - Sanctuary
    Zuenzu - Sanctuary Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »
    You don't matter at all.

    Ouch... I don't matter... =[
  • StretchIt - Harshlands
    StretchIt - Harshlands Posts: 327 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Zuenzu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Ouch... I don't matter... =[

    b:kiss huggies* only PvP servers matter
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Paimage - Harshlands
    Paimage - Harshlands Posts: 1,017 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    K, so swordman's Sin has all that I posted execpet for the -0.1 daggers. He's using rank instead. TLN's Sin has the daggers but no rank plate or Nirvana leggings.

    Here's swordman's Sin's gears
    http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4885/20100219142512.png

    And this is TLN's Nirvana daggers
    http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/9206/20100219143129.png

    Damn such a waste to b a sin with those gears on a pve server since sins r a more pvp class, what a waste...
  • Xirella - Harshlands
    Xirella - Harshlands Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    There is a rush you get when you see those green dots closing in and you know they are coming for you.
  • Divine_Death - Dreamweaver
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,491 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Paimage - Harshlands wrote: »
    Damn such a waste to b a sin with those gears on a pve server since sins r a more pvp class, what a waste...

    Yeah, glad I made mine on HL lol.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk
  • Lucifer - Dreamweaver
    Lucifer - Dreamweaver Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    Q_Q
    Lol...you do know that your post be a necro?
    by one day.....teh argument be over already lol...
    XD
    Necro Necro Necro Necro Necro

    ok im glad u find this hilarius everybody else laugh to make MagicHamsta happy
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