Assassin vs Fist BM?

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear

DarkHam - Harshlands wrote: »

Funny how TideBorns have so much pride after only being out for a week x.X

its not about pride. its about other classes saying the sins and psys suck and have no uses compared to the classes already out. and alot of us are trying to prove that that is not true. alot of ppl are saying that fist BMs/archers will annialate sins and that wizzards/venos will annialate psys when they NEVER even fought a high lvled sin/psy before. its stupid to make these claims and ppl seem to make reasons to why the other classes own the new classes. and we simply give reasons to defend the class. u cant make such claims without even facing a 70+ or 80+ sin.

all of my arguments have been speculation just like all of the counter arguments have been. NONE of us know how sins and psys will play out in high lvls. but saying a sin/psy will be useless and that other classes will outperform them is just stupid. its even been said countless times by both the devs of PW AND the GMs that the assassin and psy class are great pvp classes with unparalled dmg potential. u can not ignore such statements coming straight from the higher ups and makers of this game.

not to mention that some of the high lvl daggers allow us to atk outside of other melee classes atk range while they are being stuned/slept/immobilized. if ur going to make such statements on how a fist BM or archer will own a sin u cant ignore these things. same goes for psy and there extremly fast channeling combined with high power.

Hichel - Harshlands

DarkHam - Harshlands wrote: »

Funny how TideBorns have so much pride after only being out for a week x.X

I think its not pride, but TideBorns havent reached high levels yet to see what they can truly be.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

u rly have the spirits and coin to max both fist skills and pole skills? this is a legitimate question btw. also while ur skill does give 25% crit rate, at higher lvls we will NATURALLY have about that same ammount of crit rate and a skill to increase that crit rate even more.

i max all 4 paths every level

Joshcja - Sanctuary

maocchi wrote: »

Can we start reading posts before replying? I said a Fist BM's lack of large skill arsenal is not a minus. That means a Fist BM is NOT supposed to spam skills. Assassins can spam as many skill and apply as many effects as they want. But at the end of the day, if you can't do enough damage and take enough damage (both of which Fist BMs excel at, provided the fight is purely physical), they can't have the upperhand in a fight. No class in PWI can render an opponent completely helpless for the entire duration of a fight. Not even BMs.

Also, I mentioned that those points were my speculation (which is what this thread was about in the first place, although many seem to have forgotten). I'm not underestimating potential of Assassins nor do I think Assassins stand no chance. I just think there's no viable theory as of YET as to how Assassins can win against one of the deadliest end game character types.

charm tick is 10 seconds bm stunlock can last forever at sage demon with fists for chi yes we'll eventually miss or have aleion fail but 10 seconds is all we need realy

sorry for the double post

Lusca - Sanctuary

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

charm tick is 10 seconds bm stunlock can last forever at sage demon with fists for chi yes we'll eventually miss or have aleion fail but 10 seconds is all we need realy

sorry for the double post

Maze steps
A special movement of tide born assassins. increase own movement speed and become immune to stuns and immobilization


i don't have it yet but i should tomorrow i hope, and if the description is correct and it does only use one spark then makes stunning a sin pretty hard and there are anti stun genie skills =]

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

charm tick is 10 seconds bm stunlock can last forever at sage demon with fists for chi yes we'll eventually miss or have aleion fail but 10 seconds is all we need realy

sorry for the double post

with the ammount of skills a sin has to prevent a stunlock, im pretty sure a BM wont be able to keep a sin stunlocked like they can with other classes. and i havent tested it yet (altho some of the higher sins can do it if they wish) but from what i heard force stealth forces u into steal even when stuned. if that is true then not only will all status effects be removed, but u will be invisible and will not take further dmg from the fist BM. so it will be very hard/near impossible to keep a sin stunlocked especially if this is the case.

Heartstone - Dreamweaver

ArkToNE - Harshlands wrote: »

With level 10 skills

Dagger Mastery +60% Dagger Damage
Chill of the Deep +30 Attack Levels
Subsea Strike +30% Damage Amp for 8 seconds (stacks with BM Dragon, but not Extreme Poison)
Wolf Emblem +30% Critical Damage

Inner Harmony 200 Chi (at level 10, 150 at level 1), Rising Dragon Strike 150 Chi, Shadow Escape 100 Chi, Tackling Strike 50 Chi. This totals to 500 chi (5 sparks) that can be gained EXTREMELY quickly.

So you can spark erupt 5 times, advanced 2 times with 1 spark stock, and demon/sage 1 time with 2 spark stock.

Replacement? No, noteworthy? Oh yes.

gonna be endless demon spark xD.

Lusca - Sanctuary

also a fight between a sin and a fist bm won't be a pure physical fight, if a bm ever use his lower m def and raise p def self buff i'm going to hit him with a pretty nasty thunderstorm when his hp is just above half =]

but as far as i can tell sins are not made to kill ha classes lol

ArkToNE - Harshlands

While Assassins don't have too much of a chance against BMs, we can irritate them to no end. With skills that reduce the BM's attack speed by 50% (lasts 30 seconds, can be recast every 8 seconds), and additional 25% Physical Attack Skill evasion, Fist BMs are going to find themselves having a hard time keeping up with the damage they're used to dishing even with Misty Forest rings. This is just for the defensive aspect.

As an offense, the Assassin can reach 30 Attack levels, meaning they'll always pierce through the armor to some extent. They also have the option to remain spark erupted the entire fight or constantly 30% Amp to add that extra damage. As if that wasn't bad enough, they have to deal with being slept every 15 seconds, immobilized every 15 seconds, and stunned every time the Assassin uses Shadow Teleport.


In the end. All melee classes are going to have a rough time fighting assassins. They'd still have a good chance of winning, but they're still going to run into a large bit of trouble.

Hichel - Harshlands

it should be interesting with genie skills btw

Bartack - Heavens Tear

Assasins will likely do more dps until demon spark wears off, unless they can hit 5 attacks per second. If not, they wont be able to 'spam spark' like fist bm (or fist barb, even higher dps!) But this is fine, as assasin will NOT want to do that kind of dps against anything that takes that long to kill. Only thing that takes that kind of punishment is a boss, and LA sins are NOT gonna want to tank. However, if sin buffs work with other weapons, someone may try to roll a HA fist sin to out dps fist bm's, and even fist barbs. b:shocked

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Lusca - Sanctuary wrote: »

Maze steps
A special movement of tide born assassins. increase own movement speed and become immune to stuns and immobilization


i don't have it yet but i should tomorrow i hope, and if the description is correct and it does only use one spark then makes stunning a sin pretty hard and there are anti stun genie skills =]

will of bolshivia

also we're used to every other class having anti stun pots skill and genis and yet we sti manage to set up locks

no sin chi skills dont allow infinite hell

but they can chain 3 2 spark skills at level 59...seems rather deadly to me

still no clear winner till the dust settles on this expansionb:bye

Drmelvin - Heavens Tear

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

u rly have the spirits and coin to max both fist skills and pole skills? this is a legitimate question btw.

Lol.... Seriously have you never played a BM before? The original post was talking about maxed level, equips and such so yeah more than just the fist path would be maxed, My cleric is 90 and has all skills maxed (4 or 5 demon skills) and still has about 3m spirit left over.

FadeDaggers - Lost City wrote: »

Thts maybe because ur 90 but if the sin is same lvl as the bm as mentioned in thread u wont be able to see or target him

Im not talking about my cleric seeing them.

maocchi wrote: »

If crit rate is going to decide who wins...

Fist BM with Dragon Bane + Demonic Eruption = epic win.

Stun won't come in play majority of the times since both classes have skills that prevent any form of freeze/slow down.

Fist BMs also have Golden Bell + Marrow Physical which would render most physical damage nearly harmless.

Do we also want to mention that Fist BMs have access to Diamon Sutra, a survival skill that dominates over any survival skills Assassins have?

Also, if the Assassin allows the BM to hit him enough times, he would drop before DoT can do its job.

Lastly, Fist BM not having a large arsenal of skills is not a minus. The greatest damage of Fist BMs come from auto attacking, not skills. Will of Bodhistava + auto attack can probably drop the Assassin. Of course, this is just my speculation and in no way a fact.

And no, I'm not biased towards fists. I have both Fist BM and an Assassin. Assassin is indeed powerful but when it comes to growth rate, Fist BM grows more and more useful while Assassin has no noticeable change in usefulness.

At least some people who play this game has some sense in how pvp works.

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear

k, u guys can take what im about to say with a grain of salt and believe it or not believe it, but i just seen a duel between a 70+ (oracle noob) sin against a 70+ HA axe BM. the sin won 3 times in a row... the guy was doing insane spike dmg with his crits =/. the BM did beat the sin twice aswell tho. one of the sins skill (idk which one it was but it was one of the lvl 59 skills im sure) took nearly half the BMs HP when it critted.

now u guys can beleive that or not, but afterwhat i seen i can now fully beleive in the power of a sin. and the dude was a supposed oracle noob even so think of how a skilled sin player would do.b:surrender

Drmelvin - Heavens Tear

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

k, u guys can take what im about to say with a grain of salt and believe it or not believe it, but i just seen a duel between a 70+ (oracle noob) sin against a 70+ HA axe BM. the sin won 3 times in a row... the guy was doing insane spike dmg with his crits =/. the BM did beat the sin twice aswell tho. one of the sins skill (idk which one it was but it was one of the lvl 59 skills im sure) took nearly half the BMs HP when it critted.

now u guys can beleive that or not, but afterwhat i seen i can now fully beleive in the power of a sin. and the dude was a supposed oracle noob even so think of how a skilled sin player would do.b:surrender

Axe BM have a different build than fist bm because they have less dex which means its more likely that the sin could get a hit on him but since fist bm have a ton of dex the eva rate increases so it would be more difficult

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear

so, we bringing evasion into this argument now...? well if thats the case, who do u think will have more evasion in the end. a HA fist BM or a full dex sin?b:bye

if we going to talk about it being more dificult because of evasion them a fist BM will definatly have a harder time hitting a sin because of there much higher evasion rates later on. not to mention all the other skills sins have to let them avoid things event more. a sin will also have more accuracy on top of that.

Drmelvin - Heavens Tear

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

so, we bringing evasion into this argument now...? well if thats the case, who do u think will have more evasion in the end. a HA fist BM or a full dex sin?b:bye

if we going to talk about it being more dificult because of evasion them a fist BM will definatly have a harder time hitting a sin because of there much higher evasion rates later on. not to mention all the other skills sins have to let them avoid things event more. a sin will also have more accuracy on top of that.

The BM would also have alot of accuracy but since the sin lacks phy def when they land a hit it will do most likely equal damage to what the sin has done in maybe 3 - 4 attacks (just a guess) Besides ive been archers get dropped by axe BMs and they follow the same build as a sin.

I was just saying that its likely that the lack of dex for the axe bm played a part in that duel since he would have lower acc and lower eva whereas fist users dont share that issue

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear

archers do follow the same build but i do not think they have as many evasion skills like sins does. most of the skills sin do have make up for them not being able to wear HA. there reviving skill gives 20% extra HP once they die and if u have a charm on then its back to full HP. so they basically have 2 lives. and the skill might even be spammable (dont quote me on that tho). and force stelth to get them out of any touch situation a fist BM might put them in. forcing stealth when u know ur about to get killed and ur charm has not cooled down might be key in a fight. it will give u escape from certain death and let ur charm cooldown fast enought to heal back to fool. all while giving u a spark and removing any status effects u might have on u.

but this stuff is all just on paper. like i think u and alot of ppl already said we will just have to wait and see what a sins place in the world will be in a couple of months.

and even if the lack of dex proved to play a part in it, it still proves that a sin can still do decent dmg on a HA char with high p def like a BM has.

Legendadry - Harshlands

Alot of players in PWI seem to not understand the reality about being a blademaster. That's not entirely their fault either. Terms such as a fist bm or a sword bm or an axe bm does not mean that bm only uses just that weapon. As a blademaster you use the weapon path that gives u the most advantage over ur opponent at the moment. All the BM skills come in handy and at 90+ you should have at least 3 paths of skills to choose from+ everything else. So to answer your question a BM whose main path is Fists still follows the same attack pattern that all bm's should and most do. You stunlock w/ whichever combo u have to completely make the oppnonent useless. so as soon as a BM stuns the sin, depending on the skill of the blademaster its allready over. For the sin it would depend heavily on how well they use their skills. Bleed wont do that much of damage to a Heavy armor user such as a Blademaster w/ all that HP. A sins best bet considering that both opponents have their skills at least to lvl 59, would be for a sin to keep the blademaster stuned for as long as possible. Therefore the outcome would depend greatly on the users of each class. If the Blademaster isnt great at stunning the sin may win. If the sin isnt great at using their skills at the right the time the blademaster could roll them. Really sins are supposed to be squishy target killers. they get in and they get out quickly. BM's are for massive pk parties stuning several targets adn killing them all at once. Sin is more for single target BM is more for multiple targets.

Lusca - Sanctuary

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

will of bolshivia

what does a skill that stops the bm from being stunned or frozen help said bm to stun lock anything?





lol people mentioned i think in a different thread that fist bms have a skill that gives them 25% more crit rate so that they would have a higher crit rate than assassins but if this is the skill, you guys forgot to mention the 50% less attack power part

Dragons bane

Mana 200
Channel Instant
Cooldown 5 minutes
Weapon Any

Requisite Cultivation Aware of Vacuity
Invented by a famous Blademaster while fighting a beastly dragon. This ferocious technique
promised him victory, and was taught to others with the name Dragon Bane. Reduces attack power by 50% but increases critical hit by 25% for 30 seconds.

Requires one Spark.
Note: Critical hits will not be displayed if landed.

Legendadry - Harshlands

Lusca - Sanctuary wrote: »

what does a skill that stops the bm from being stunned or frozen help said bm to stun lock anything?

please roll a BM b4 u think u know how to play one. if a BM cant be stuned or frozen or slept that means a sin cant to anything to him but kite. However sins also have the same skill. so if its a smart sin they'll use that when the bm uses his

Lusca - Sanctuary

Legendadry - Harshlands wrote: »

please roll a BM b4 u think u know how to play one. if a BM cant be stuned or frozen or slept that means a sin cant to anything to him but kite. However sins also have the same skill. so if its a smart sin they'll use that when the bm uses his

oh please, were have i ever said i think i know how to play a bm?

and it wasn't about what the sin could do to the bm it was about the sins ability to avoid getting stun locked


and when a squishy class whos only elemental skills come from a genie has to fight some one in heavy armor it doesn't take a genus to realize they are going to have a tough time, but it also doesn't mean a sin will just drop dead in 2 seconds every time they fight a bm

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear

The reduction in attack power doesn't work the way you think it does. In fact its hardly noticeable at all.

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver

As for pure dps goes, Sin would win since a fist BM have to split points between STR for damage and DEX for crit while a Sin of the same level would have higher crit % while more points towards damage.

But 1 v 1 goes, I think fist BM would win. Imagine fighting an Archer that doesn't have metal damage and can only melee. The reason Archers are so powerful is because their high crit AND that they can do magic damage, which hurts a lot. Even if I don't stun lock the **** out of a Sin, just using Roar and Aeolian once in a while can mess up Sin's dps. Sin's gotta hit through HA while fist BM is punching at LA. Ask a demon fist BM to Dragon Bane and spark on an Archer for you and have the Archer not kite and see how fast the Archer drops. When I was fist fighting against Minigod, lvl 100 Archer, I had to Bane then spark at the start because I wasn't charmed and he was. He sparked right after I did of course, but when his immunity ran out, he died in a couple of seconds. It was so fast I couldn't believe it. I don't think I even had my FC fists and - int bracer at that moment.

Quilue - Sanctuary

you're supposed to cast dragon bane then triple spark to get rid of the reduction

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

edit:

oops, wrong sin topic


there. .too many similar.. 3:|

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As for pure dps goes, Sin would win since a fist BM have to split points between STR for damage and DEX for crit while a Sin of the same level would have higher crit % while more points towards damage.

But 1 v 1 goes, I think fist BM would win. Imagine fighting an Archer that doesn't have metal damage and can only melee. The reason Archers are so powerful is because their high crit AND that they can do magic damage, which hurts a lot. Even if I don't stun lock the **** out of a Sin, just using Roar and Aeolian once in a while can mess up Sin's dps. Sin's gotta hit through HA while fist BM is punching at LA. Ask a demon fist BM to Dragon Bane and spark on an Archer for you and have the Archer not kite and see how fast the Archer drops. When I was fist fighting against Minigod, lvl 100 Archer, I had to Bane then spark at the start because I wasn't charmed and he was. He sparked right after I did of course, but when his immunity ran out, he died in a couple of seconds. It was so fast I couldn't believe it. I don't think I even had my FC fists and - int bracer at that moment.

sins are -.15 away from 5 hits per second so they'll never hit 5 per second stop saying their a dps class thier spike oreinted

Konariraiden - Heavens Tear

Undine + Level 10 Black Ice Dragon Strike = Wizards Win.

Lusca - Sanctuary

Konariraiden - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Undine + Level 10 Black Ice Dragon Strike = Wizards Win.

this is a bm vs sin thread not a wizzie one >=[

go back to wizzie forums and teach oraclers how to pvp =P lolol

Konariraiden - Heavens Tear

Lusca - Sanctuary wrote: »

this is a bm vs sin thread not a wizzie one >=[

go back to wizzie forums and teach oraclers how to pvp =P lolol

Every thread is a Wizard thread when I'm around. This is PvP we're talking about...you gotta keep your eyes open for gankers like me! Oops, yer dead!

*drops Sadness card*