Reduce Primal Mighty Swing mass pvp efficiency

Zanryu - Lothranis

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Seekers are almost as resistant as barbs @Zanryu - Lothranis, lets not forget they have constant 30+ def lvls perma on there. Them seekers hit very hard with mag skills (even more with zerkcrits), which never misses, while barbs have a serious problem of blindness, being able to armagemiss casters @_@

I don't buy that an equal geared Seeker will be able to destroy an equal geared Barbarian with combos. The Seeker has virtually no way to lock the Barbarian down, and only has one skill that bypasses Invoke. Though in order for that to work they'd have to go through every other defensive measure first (Solid Shield, HoS/Expel/AD, Cornered Beast). The Barb is going to be able to tank the Seeker quite well, even in stand up form, while having Tiger Form to fall back on should the need arise.

Also, even I can miss Casters now on clutch hits. Cards are something else man.

Really, this skill is ok in the hands of normal average barbs, you may call it "OP" in the hands of dex-built barbs who can deal a decent amount of damage (and actually hit) in those 4 seconds.

It doesn't matter what situation the skill is OP in if it's OP. Don't kid yourself, it's broken no matter what build of Barbarian uses it, but even if it's only one build that's OP with it that's irrelevant. If something is broken, it's broken, the only thing that a difference of what situation it's broken in makes is how it should be fixed.

As the guy said above, other barb skills might be considered OP too, so can Primal Swirling Mist and Redstone Venomworm, Chill of the Deep and ALMOST every other primal skill. (Except psychic's, psy's primals are pretty lame...)

Kek

lalalalala

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

lalalalala

Imagine a barb vs a barb nowadays...

would be an endless waste of charms and potions.

Back to the 0-stake, which leads to conclusion: Classes are balanced according to a global manner: Some better for mass and other better for individual, it is very difficult for devs to give barbs a mass PvP resistance that doesn't give them a massive resistance 1v1-wise. Or, nearly impossible.

Back to mighty swing subject: I think its great to counter purify spell I myself vote for "Leave it as it is.". It might be nasty against each and every class, but counterable by each and every class with any simple CC. (you can CC barb back "OH!") The effect antistun blocks is the one which stops you from attacking, the 'anti-stun ignoring' effect still allows you to attack and use skills freely.

I myself can counter primal mighty swing without tidal protection by simply using demon maze steps and a well timed throatcut, easy enough. I could stealth away, or overload stun locks also! And not even touching the tidal protection button. Tidal protection is overrated, I use focused mind mostly (except against venos, because tidal is good to keep my buffs safe b:laugh)

Zheii - Archosaur

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

Pay attention to the casting time. A barbarian alone cannot get any "real" advantage from using this skill, they will need someone else to do the killing job while people are stunned unless your purpose is to only interrupt.

Chi is sure nice, we get it from demon slam too. b:cute

This was what I was getting at! In my original post I was using it as an example in MASS PVP(because this is what this thread is about right? barbs in Mass PvP), where the barb goes in, stuns and DDs AoE on/around him, It from there spiraled out of control and I ended up trying to defend my view points, which may not be right, but that doesn't even matter.

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »

-Randomly comparing sin stuns to seeker stuns and then the rest I didn't bother to read because I don't care enough XD.-

I don't care about the comparison in skills, TO ME (take note that it's actually you know, my thoughts and opinions not the freaking bible) AoE stuns are (In mass PvP) total game changers if used correctly, and barbs have that ability. THAT IS WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET ACROSS.

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Holy ****, do i understand it right and is zheii trying to compare voidstep to untamed wrath and make untamed wrath look good ? b:laugh

Thats just hahahahahahahaha, i want to trade skills with you any day. And id give up a lot more than just untamed wrath if i could then get voidstep instead

I will never forget the day i was on my 77 seeker in FC. Never really having played the seeker that was only for zhenning and waiting for everyone to be ready for the mobs thingy, i was looking at what skills i actually had and stumbled upon voidstep. "Hey that looks nice for pvp" I select some random lvl 85 dude in squad to duel. Voidstep - blade afinity (the only skill i was familiar with besides vortex) - smash keyboard - dead enemy. Thats when i figured why seekers were considered OP and super easy to play.

z.z
So, a duel at lvl 77 in fc is what you base your knowledge of seekers off? Instantly anything you say in regards to seekers and or PvP might as well be gibberish for all the attention I'm going to pay it.

WannaBM - Archosaur

Zheii - Archosaur wrote: »

z.z
So, a duel at lvl 77 in fc is what you base your knowledge of seekers off? Instantly anything you say in regards to seekers and or PvP might as well be gibberish for all the attention I'm going to pay it.[/COLOR]

No, thats is not what i base my knowledge off. I dont even claim to have any knowledge. It was just a nice little anecdote. But i think it is not unreasonable for me to laugh at any comparison between voidstep and untamed wrath. Voidstep is the perfect skill (except for its cooldown) It is the skill i always dreamed of having. And im sure im not the only barb who dreams of having a skill that telports you to the enemy and stuns them as well. What fricken more could you want ?! Untamed wrath on the other hand has a special place with garote and firestorm: not on my skillbar because they are garbage.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I don't mind the two having Paralyze so much as Paralyze itself.

Its fine that the effect cannot be purified, but the biggest issue imo is that there's nothing you can do to resist it when you see it coming outside of flat-out immunity. What sort of sense does it make to be able to Paralyze someone who's under the effect of an anti-stun, be it Purify Spell's, a skill specific to their class, or a well timed genie skill?

If Paralyze is supposed to be a "better" stun, then just leave it as "unable to be purified/broken" so that it keeps the guaranteed follow-up should it land, but still allow it to be resisted like other movement-based negative status so that it can be properly managed.

^ I agree with this. This way it's still effective against Purify Proc weapons while still giving everyone a way to deal with it and I guess doesn't need to "nerf" any of the Paralyze skills ('cept Malefic Crush which has a huge drawback already).

trands

Joe - Morai wrote: »

OK the whole Mighty Swing thing is kinda getting old lately. That is just one of the 3 new OP skills a barb got lately.

The other skills are nice but not OP. Nobody is against barbs being more versatile in order to attract more players to an under-played class. None of the skills makes the barb a real DD factor in mass pvp (unlike your believe), they just give options to a barb outside "cata/flag or buff on paws".

Joe - Morai wrote: »

Primal/Demon Bestial Onslaught gives 40% crit for 6 seconds with a 8 Second cooldown (crit bonus applies on the attack itself alrdy, as usual). I for on ehave ~80% crit with that, nearly permanent.

You're 1 of the 7 classes that can get a crit boost. And still, archers/sins are still above you with base crit while being far more dangerous with range/hit from stealth and none of the other classes has to get within 12m. In mass pvp, 1 person having a crit boost is and will always be just 1 person with better crit. It will still depend on either gear or aa whether it's dangerous.

Joe - Morai wrote: »

Primal Stomp of the Beast king is the most OP skill barbs got with the new update by far. Did you guys even notice what that skill does? Well here I'm going to tell you. Every time the attack lands you get a debuff that causes you to take 8% more skill dmg and it stacks up to 5 times...letting you get 40% more dmg from all skills that are pounding your way. That amazing skill comes with a 3s Cooldown and is 100% Accu in the demon Version. You need ~20 seconds to built up 5 hits against melee targets and average stuns and stuff. and ofc it will stay upon the target if you keep freshing the hits with it but thats going to happen anyways since that skill is pretty fast and very usable.

As if you're going to hammer someone for 20 seconds without that person being healed or purified... Oh wait, it's possible thanks to paralyze now. OP part in there is paralyze, not an amp that is just a factor among many others.

Joe - Morai wrote: »

What should scare ppl the most is the combination of all 3 primal skills (sunder is great too, but mostly for PvE). A Barb that deals you a flat 40% more dmg overall with 70-80% crit all the time + the chance to paralyze for 4s every 6 seconds is what should you guys get creeped out. Its not Mighty swing alone that tears ppl apart. Stomp is far more OP if you ask me.

At least you're pointing out my point : barbs have been granted many ways to be useful outside their tanking role. They shouldn't excel in other fields, but just have good additions so they aren't just considered a buff when there is no cata to pull or flag to turn in. There is absolutely no need that they got that spammable paralyze.

Joe - Morai wrote: »

On the other hand there are also loads of +cough fail cough+ sage barbs that cant take that much of an advantage from the new skills as it was always obvious that demon barbs are by far superior in terms of killing and DDing then sage ones (although that gap kinda got a bit shortened with the focus on skill use only especially since the CD and Channel time for all primal skills are the same now).

You are way to much in a 1vs1 mindset. The thread is about mass-pvp. A barb, even strength build, as individual damage is just a damage factor among others. Even strength build, you're just a minor damage source for an AA class. In mass-pvp, it turns way more around disables, amps, cc, debuffs and so on, that allow a squad to create a synergy in damage output. That's why a paralyze is so powerful, and why a spammable version is considered OP by many.

All those solo-heros manage to do in TW/NW is take down some under-geared players for their pvp rankings and/or personal credits. They have no interest on the strategic lvl of a TW, map or nation.

Shadowvzss - Harshlands

i agree with trands in all what he said, damn hard to stack that amplify and crit is nice but well, sin hit and archer like 90% crit rate with next rebirth without any crit buff permanent

Joe - Morai

trands wrote: »

The other skills are nice but not OP. Nobody is against barbs being more versatile in order to attract more players to an under-played class. None of the skills makes the barb a real DD factor in mass pvp (unlike your believe), they just give options to a barb outside "cata/flag or buff on paws".



You're 1 of the 7 classes that can get a crit boost. And still, archers/sins are still above you with base crit while being far more dangerous with range/hit from stealth and none of the other classes has to get within 12m. In mass pvp, 1 person having a crit boost is and will always be just 1 person with better crit. It will still depend on either gear or aa whether it's dangerous.



As if you're going to hammer someone for 20 seconds without that person being healed or purified... Oh wait, it's possible thanks to paralyze now. OP part in there is paralyze, not an amp that is just a factor among many others.



At least you're pointing out my point : barbs have been granted many ways to be useful outside their tanking role. They shouldn't excel in other fields, but just have good additions so they aren't just considered a buff when there is no cata to pull or flag to turn in. There is absolutely no need that they got that spammable paralyze.



You are way to much in a 1vs1 mindset. The thread is about mass-pvp. A barb, even strength build, as individual damage is just a damage factor among others. Even strength build, you're just a minor damage source for an AA class. In mass-pvp, it turns way more around disables, amps, cc, debuffs and so on, that allow a squad to create a synergy in damage output. That's why a paralyze is so powerful, and why a spammable version is considered OP by many.

All those solo-heros manage to do in TW/NW is take down some under-geared players for their pvp rankings and/or personal credits. They have no interest on the strategic lvl of a TW, map or nation.

Where the hell is this thread about mass PvP? Mass PvP is a non-factor for me and the most "Pro"-players here. PvP is a massive show-off to see whos the best. Mass PvP is not really reliable for this as you have so many numbers factoring in that cant be predicted at all. Thus making it totally random BS. In 1on1 you can easily predict your enemy. If equally geared/skilled players fight against each other then only the one that doesnt do any mistake will win. That is possible any class vs any class.

Really and I will be radically honest this time:

Mass PvP is for ppl that lack serious skill and only ppl hang onto it that cant do a thing on their own. It's really pretty much the same in rl and I always raged about that too, so I wont quit it here. If someone wins over another one while being teamed up with 2 or more guys then it is just pathetic and no victory at all. Chances are just too high for a group to win over a single person, especially in rl.

I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. Teamwork is great, dont get me wrong. But so many ppl have such a twisted vision of pride and honour these days that it really scares me.

But tbh...the main reason why I hate mass PvP are the bragging guys. you just got ganked by 10 ppl and one guy pms you that you are a noob cuz you just died...these ppl...nothing makes me rage like such ppl.

All I'm saying and what I really want to get through to ppl:

KIlling someone while you are on a group is no achievement at all and nothing!!!! to be proud of and if you are indeed proud of yourself in such situations you lack loads of self-confidence. If one is strong only in a group then that one isnt strong and will be lost when the group gets split up.

BTT game related:

Mass PvP is a non factor for judging out whos the most powerful or OP class. Like I said, there are just way too many factors. It doesnt matter what kind of skills you use, if 2 or more ppl are hitting on you then you are supposed to lose anyways. What the hell are we talking about? That you guys, no matter your class, all wanna be able to tank and kill whole groups? seriously? delete yourselfes!

Better die with pride then live in shame.

trands

Joe - Morai wrote: »

Where the hell is this thread about mass PvP?

In the title b:chuckle

Which makes the rest of your reply off-topic and I'll just keep it at "I do not agree".

Joe - Morai

trands wrote: »

In the title b:chuckle

Which makes the rest of your reply off-topic and I'll just keep it at "I do not agree".

But it has no mass-PvP efficiency at all. If we really start arguing like that we could also say:

Reduce max squad size to 2 players because ganks of 10 vs 1 are just too powerful. Hots whole point was that 2 or more barb could perma lock one up without the chance of getting away. Ya thats true and its possible. But 2 or more barbs should alrdy be sufficient to kill another player, so it doesnt matter if he gets locked up.

Nothing like a Single Attack can ever be considered OP in mass-PvP. would it be a 4 sec AOE paralyze with 6s CD it would be a whole different story...but as it is now its far from OP and cant even be considered a threat in mass-PvP.

Take the game mechanics as they are or simply quite if you guys dont like it. I make my way around stuff that doesnt apply o me like mass-PvP and it works quite well (:

Shadowvzss - Harshlands

Joe - Morai wrote: »

But it has no mass-PvP efficiency at all. If we really start arguing like that we could also say:

Reduce max squad size to 2 players because ganks of 10 vs 1 are just too powerful. Hots whole point was that 2 or more barb could perma lock one up without the chance of getting away. Ya thats true and its possible. But 2 or more barbs should alrdy be sufficient to kill another player, so it doesnt matter if he gets locked up.

Nothing like a Single Attack can ever be considered OP in mass-PvP. would it be a 4 sec AOE paralyze with 6s CD it would be a whole different story...but as it is now its far from OP and cant even be considered a threat in mass-PvP.

Take the game mechanics as they are or simply quite if you guys dont like it. I make my way around stuff that doesnt apply o me like mass-PvP and it works quite well (:

i think they ain't meant to huge nerf but example 20 chi cost make it less spamable a bit (like wizz sleep but there cooldown is high another side it is instant)

trands

Shadowvzss - Harshlands wrote: »

i think they ain't meant to huge nerf but example 20 chi cost make it less spamable a bit (like wizz sleep but there cooldown is high another side it is instant)

Exactly.

Joe - Morai wrote: »

But it has no mass-PvP efficiency at all. If we really start arguing like that we could also say:

No matter how you put it, a game with all classes having aoe based skills and events that turn around 20vs20, 30vs30, 40vs40 and 80vs80 instances is mass-pvp based. Whether 1vs1 has an importance, is merely up to the player base likings.

Mass-pvp is not about a group vs Joe. It's about group vs group. I consider 1vs1 as pointless and boring. However, I leave those who do like it in their value. The ideas of "best class", "better player", "being stronger" and so on have no existence in my mind. Any reasoning on efficiency is based to a goal and thus subjective. I like group pvp more then 1vs1 exactly for the reason you dislike it: there is more influences on the result, factors you don't control. You can't accept that because you need a "winner", I like it because I don't see it that way. Life isn't fair, neither is a war-game. Factors like luck and numbers can out-weight pure force and "skill".

The thing is, I don't care whether I win or loose. I get pride from the renovation of my house, from my job, from projects that took years to accomplish, ... Not from killing someone in a game. I don't care if your e-peen is bigger then mine, mine is big enough anyway. I can take luck, bad odds and the billion of outside factors of group pvp, because for me it's just a distraction and I'm used to life not being fair/equal all the time. It makes things more interesting then sterilized equalized 1vs1.

Zanryu - Lothranis

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Imagine a barb vs a barb nowadays...

would be an endless waste of charms and potions.

Back to the 0-stake, which leads to conclusion: Classes are balanced according to a global manner: Some better for mass and other better for individual, it is very difficult for devs to give barbs a mass PvP resistance that doesn't give them a massive resistance 1v1-wise. Or, nearly impossible.

That is not true balance. That's them trying to make the game a paper/rock/scizors thing, only the order of the game is wrong and you end up with some scizors beating rock or some rocks beating paper because of how class mechanics work. The rock/paper/scizors style of balancing is horrible for an MMO, even if it only applies mainly to 1v1s.

Back to mighty swing subject: I think its great to counter purify spell I myself vote for "Leave it as it is.". It might be nasty against each and every class, but counterable by each and every class with any simple CC. (you can CC barb back "OH!") The effect antistun blocks is the one which stops you from attacking, the 'anti-stun ignoring' effect still allows you to attack and use skills freely.

Paralyze as a status needs to be changed, though I will agree that Purify Spell needs a counter.

I myself can counter primal mighty swing without tidal protection by simply using demon maze steps and a well timed throatcut, easy enough. I could stealth away, or overload stun locks also! And not even touching the tidal protection button. Tidal protection is overrated, I use focused mind mostly (except against venos, because tidal is good to keep my buffs safe b:laugh)

No. No you can't. I know you're trying to say that through proper timing you can counter getting hit by the skill because of the evasion buff that accompanies Demon Maze Steps, but Mighty Swing has 100% accuracy. You'll dodge the rest of their attacks fairly easily, but Might Swing will still get you. The way an Assassin dodges it is through the use of Tackling Slash and staying out of range. (I believe the range on daggers is ridiculous and the ability to attack a melee target while they can do virtually nothing to you in return is absolutely stupid, but that's an issue for another day and another thread.) An Assassin that uses Focused Mind over Tidal? Well.. that's that. I can't take anything you say seriously. I don't think you're actually worth the time to reply to at this point. Focused.. pfftbahbahahahahaahahahahaa

What I believe should be done in regards to Paralyze is...

I believe Purify Spell needs to retain its effect, seeing as there's no way they'll change it, but rather than give the general anti stun and speed buffs, the two are combined into a new buff icon. Paralyze is mainly around to counter Purify Spell, so after having given Purify Spell its own buff icon for the effects it has, make Paralyze ONLY go through that specific effect. Anti Stuns and Fortify should be made to resist it. Badge of Courage should break free of it. However, it should still be able to overlap stuns and still go off, as well as resist Purify, Faith, and any other method of removing it or preventing its application outside of a specific anti stun or stun break. It should also bypass Tidal Protection, Tiger Leap, and Blade Affinity. This
prevents classes with those buffs from simply taking the hit and having to expend nothing but a cooldown (and minimal chi in the BM's case) to have a chance to resist it. This would help to balance Assassins out mainly as even though they're able to resist everything else passively through Tidal, they could be hit by Paralyze meaning they'll have to either use their genie/anti stun in order to block or escape the status.

This makes it only truly counter Purify Spell as well as have counters, while also making the skills that grant the status worth obtaining even if they can be removed. I'm not so sure I'd want to fight heavies if we went back to a stunbreak meta, or anyone for that matter as a BM since everything I do relies on being able to lock targets down but Paralyze is broken no matter who uses it. (not that PWI really has a meta... but if there was something that was the norm it'd be people running stunbreaks in most cases)

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

No. No you can't. I know you're trying to say that through proper timing you can counter getting hit by the skill because of the evasion buff that accompanies Demon Maze Steps, but Mighty Swing has 100% accuracy. You'll dodge the rest of their attacks fairly easily, but Might Swing will still get you. The way an Assassin dodges it is through the use of Tackling Slash and staying out of range. (I believe the range on daggers is ridiculous and the ability to attack a melee target while they can do virtually nothing to you in return is absolutely stupid, but that's an issue for another day and another thread.) An Assassin that uses Focused Mind over Tidal? Well.. that's that. I can't take anything you say seriously. I don't think you're actually worth the time to reply to at this point. Focused.. pfftbahbahahahahaahahahahaa

Nope, i can resist the stun effect from mighty swing with the antistun debuff, if I do get freeze I can still counter with a timed stun/silence (depends on antistun status on barb). After CCing back I can just move, tackle and DD from outside barb's reach. b:bye And without touching the tidal protection. The extra evasion from maze steps is just a troller for barbarian's other skills.

But I personally don't focus barbs its a waste of gear repairs so I usually just tackle the barb or stealth away and go hunt a veno/cleric b:avoid

+1 to that "counter purify-spell" idea.

Zanryu - Lothranis

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Nope, i can resist the stun effect from mighty swing with the antistun debuff, if I do get freeze I can still counter with a timed stun/silence (depends on antistun status on barb). After CCing back I can just move, tackle and DD from outside barb's reach. b:bye And without touching the tidal protection. The extra evasion from maze steps is just a troller for barbarian's other skills.

But I personally don't focus barbs its a waste of gear repairs so I usually just tackle the barb or stealth away and go hunt a veno/cleric b:avoid

+1 to that "counter purify-spell" idea.

Have you fought someone with Paralyze? It goes through anti stun. I'm starting to think you have no experience with Primal skills.

opkossy

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Nope, i can resist the stun effect from mighty swing with the antistun debuff, if I do get freeze I can still counter with a timed stun/silence

This is the second time in this thread I've had to wonder at one of your posts about your capabilities.

Anti-stun doesn't block paralyze. At all. It would, on the other hand, prevent the freeze.... and I can't even try and claim you might have got the two mixed up to help you save face because during paralyze you aren't able to counter since it's, in essence, an unbreakable stun.

So.... do you actually know what you're talking about at this point? Or maybe you were just half asleep or something? o_O

Zanryu - Lothranis

OPKossy wrote: »

This is the second time in this thread I've had to wonder at one of your posts about your capabilities.

Anti-stun doesn't block paralyze. At all. It would, on the other hand, prevent the freeze.... and I can't even try and claim you might have got the two mixed up to help you save face because during paralyze you aren't able to counter since it's, in essence, an unbreakable stun.

So.... do you actually know what you're talking about at this point? Or maybe you were just half asleep or something? o_O

Maybe he's gotten REALLY lucky and every time he had anti stun up the Paralyze didn't go off. Or maybe he's only fought a Barbarian with the skill once. Who knows.

opkossy

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

Maybe he's gotten REALLY lucky and every time he had anti stun up the Paralyze didn't go off. Or maybe he's only fought a Barbarian with the skill once. Who knows.

Nah. Can't be the former cause of him claiming about how he'd counter the freeze... which wouldn't actually occur if the paralyze didn't go off because... well... anti-stun. At best he gets really really REALLY lucky with the mini-tidal demon focused mind gives but outside of that barely plausible explanation.... yeah.

Kiymori - Heavens Tear

OPKossy wrote: »

Nah. Can't be the former cause of him claiming about how he'd counter the freeze... which wouldn't actually occur if the paralyze didn't go off because... well... anti-stun. At best he gets really really REALLY lucky with the mini-tidal demon focused mind gives but outside of that barely plausible explanation.... yeah.

I am pretty sure he means tidal. By the way who was it I just read that suggested you could fully stack primal stomp of the beast king that many times based purely on paralyze lol? I wonder who is actually going to stand there long enough like an idiot and let it stack that many times.

XXHotXx - Morai

Kiymori - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I am pretty sure he means tidal. By the way who was it I just read that suggested you could fully stack primal stomp of the beast king that many times based purely on paralyze lol? I wonder who is actually going to stand there long enough like an idiot and let it stack that many times.

anyone that is being CCed hard \ paralyzed?

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

Have you fought someone with Paralyze? It goes through anti stun. I'm starting to think you have no experience with Primal skills.

Even like: If we get a "No move" effect from primal mighty swing we can just CC back, barbs have an antistun and that is slightly nasty, but most classes have a silence to go through anti-stun. Now figthing against 2 barbs with this **** would be as hard as fighting 2 bms or 2 sins stun locking. If these debuffs do overlap themselves (reset timer) then THERE is the point of unbalance.

Well, as these things are going I'm glad and I hope Absolute Domain+Ironguard still works against this **** lol

It does maybe need to be changed, but like you said in your thread change how these debuffs behave instead of adding chi cost/cooldown to the skill itself. (Because normal mighty swing used to be short cooldown and no chi cost)

Asterelle - Sanctuary

I'm fine with mighty swing countering purify spell but it shouldn't counter wings of grace. Wings of grace costs a full spark and 1 second of channeling for 12 seconds of usable anti stun. Mighty swing has 0.2s channel, 1/3 the cooldown, gains chi, never misses, and hard counters wings of grace. That's too much stuff.

Maybe they should just convert the archer anti stuns into something modern like tidal protection?

Zanryu - Lothranis

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm fine with mighty swing countering purify spell but it shouldn't counter wings of grace. Wings of grace costs a full spark and 1 second of channeling for 12 seconds of usable anti stun. Mighty swing has 0.2s channel, 1/3 the cooldown, gains chi, never misses, and hard counters wings of grace. That's too much stuff.

Maybe they should just convert the archer anti stuns into something modern like tidal protection?

Read muh thred b:angry

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1691641

Asterelle - Sanctuary

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

Read muh thred b:angry

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1691641

The problem with your suggestion is that the game doesn't do balance with nerfs. Only buffs are allowed. There is no way the devs are willing to nerf paralyze vs wings of grace so they can only buff wings of grace vs paralyze.

Zanryu - Lothranis

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

The problem with your suggestion is that the game doesn't do balance with nerfs. Only buffs are allowed. There is no way the devs are willing to nerf paralyze vs wings of grace so they can only buff wings of grace vs paralyze.

This is true. Next we'll have a new immunity that resists paralyze. Then we'll have paralyze 2.0 that goes through even full immunity. Then we'll have full immunity that also reflects damage. Then we'll have passives that reduce the reflection and increase all defenses. Then we'll have passives that reduce opponents defenses per hit and stacks to a certain number. Then we'll have whatever other convoluted bull**** fix they feel they need.

This game man. This game.

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

This is true. Next we'll have a new immunity that resists paralyze. Then we'll have paralyze 2.0 that goes through even full immunity. Then we'll have full immunity that also reflects damage. Then we'll have passives that reduce the reflection and increase all defenses. Then we'll have passives that reduce opponents defenses per hit and stacks to a certain number. Then we'll have whatever other convoluted bull**** fix they feel they need.

This game man. This game.

b:laugh THIS ^ Is what is likely to happen.

And this is what we call Power Creeping.

While they could simply really NERF stuff like ALL the other MMOs (Not only RPGs: MOBA, FPS, Platformer, AscII, every online game actually NERF stuff) do.

XXHotXx - Morai

so heero what do you think, this has been debated enough i guess..

should you log this argument?

heerohex#3018

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

so heero what do you think, this has been debated enough i guess..

should you log this argument?

Ill start by saying that thousands of people play this game to have a vote of 48 people is not going to be enough to call a game change. Tho I watched your video (and I enjoyed it as well) I believe this is a minimal problem. The Proc wont cover it either as it knocks you down you cant just have a skill make you run from the floor. A bigger Chi cost wont help you when you have 3 or more barbs on you as would cool down.

With the above in mind im not leaning towards Logging this. As I've said before I wont log skills ideas / Suggestions with out strong backing of player support or a good reason. It has a good reason but it also has a challenge to it and is not with out warning making it avoidable.

I'm happy to watch the vote for the time being but for now im not going to Log.

Thanks,


Current Results on Posting.

View Poll Results: Reduce Mighty Swing Paralyze Proc Mass PvP Efficiency
Yes, make the proc purifiable, cleanseable or add a major chi cost or cooldown 26 54.17%
Undecided \ Neutral 2 4.17%
No, leave it as it is 20 41.67%

Kiymori - Heavens Tear

heero200 wrote: »

Ill start by saying that thousands of people play this game to have a vote of 48 people is not going to be enough to call a game change. Tho I watched your video (and I enjoyed it as well) I believe this is a minimal problem. The Proc wont cover it either as it knocks you down you cant just have a skill make you run from the floor. A bigger Chi cost wont help you when you have 3 or more barbs on you as would cool down.

With the above in mind im not leaning towards Logging this. As I've said before I wont log skills ideas / Suggestions with out strong backing of player support or a good reason. It has a good reason but it also has a challenge to it and is not with out warning making it avoidable.

I'm happy to watch the vote for the time being but for now im not going to Log.

Thanks,


Current Results on Posting.

View Poll Results: Reduce Mighty Swing Paralyze Proc Mass PvP Efficiency
Yes, make the proc purifiable, cleanseable or add a major chi cost or cooldown 26 54.17%
Undecided \ Neutral 2 4.17%
No, leave it as it is 20 41.67%

You pretty much summarized my exact thoughts since the beginning of this thread.

HESOKA - Raging Tide

WIth BMs (A Full-On CC class) getting a similar, i think its only fair that barbs do too, however i don't think they Should be given the ability to use the skill on Tiger/Panda Form. assuming they could spam it to lock on Debuffs and remain in a tank state.