Reduce Primal Mighty Swing mass pvp efficiency

Kiymori - Heavens Tear

You can never make everyone, always going to be that one player crying over stupid things....Like Mighty Swing*cough*.

(ASSUMING GENIE AS BEEN USED)
Brb using 2 clerics to perma CC you

Brb using 2 sins to perma CC you

Brb using 2 BMs to perma CC you

Brb using 2 barbs to Perma CC you

Nerf all CC in the game please or just remove it cause apparently PvP is to broken with CC abilityb:cry.

/End Sarcasm

Clerics can lock you in PvP
Sins can lock you in PvP
BMs can lock you in PvP
Barb gets ONE upgrade to a stun skill that is spammable but DOES NOT always paralyze. Nerf please?And to the few saying that mighty swing should cost chi of any sort, please go actually think over what you said and read through the skills and then come back and say that with some shred of common sense.

I swear some of the people on theses servers must enjoy being spoon fed everything without a hint of effort being required to chew and swallow. Then again it's usually always the opposite class that feels everyone else should be nerfedb:chuckle.

lavianultima

I totally agree with Kiymori on this.

Clerics, sins, bms, all has annoying stuns and disables and people are complaining about barb mighty swing, which isnt always a succrssful stun/disable.

People wants to nerf the mighty swing.

to be fair, remove all of them.

No one should have them.

opkossy

@Above concerning MP: No.. just... no. Every class has to deal with mana issues, even casters who have the largest mana pool of us all. I can respect the rest of the post to, even if I disagree with it, be willing to at least give it a chance to hold its own weight but bringing MP costs of all things as a defense? Stop right there, turn around, and stick to the real arguments that can actually be supported.

Remember your issue with archers having a guaranteed CC? This would be like me arguing to you back then that because archers have a low mana pool that can be easily drained, that it's somehow a real drawback towards the class being given an unblockable stun that can be spammed and has such an obnoxiously low channel/cast time that there's not a thing a person can do about it even when they see it coming.

lavianultima wrote: »

I totally agree with Kiymori on this.

Clerics, sins, bms, all has annoying stuns and disables and people are complaining about barb mighty swing, which isnt always a succrssful stun/disable.

People wants to nerf the mighty swing.

to be fair, remove all of them.

No one should have them.

The new mighty swing is 100% accuracy, can be spammed, cannot be purified, can only be prevented by TOTAL IMMUNITY TO EVERYTHING, is guaranteed to land some form of control skill, and has no cost.

No other CC in the game comes even close to comparing to that and all you folks trying to act like it's anything similar to the rest are doing is deluding yourselves to try and pretend it's not broken. Same as Nix venos did back when a Phoenix could solo most players. Same as Sins did when 23spark APS occult ice from stealth was a viable tactic to roflstomp basically everything in the game. Same as casters who claim purify spell is totally balanced and fair in all situations.

Am I enjoying it on my Barb? Oh most certainly. No doubt about that at all. Am I going to sit back and try to pretend that it's not OP and shouldn't be toned down some? Hahaha... no. I've been against the OP **** that's crept into the game from the start, even when it benefited me. That's not gonna change with this skill.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

OPKossy wrote: »

@Above concerning MP: No.. just... no. Every class has to deal with mana issues, even casters who have the largest mana pool of us all. I can respect the rest of the post to, even if I disagree with it, be willing to at least give it a chance to hold its own weight but bringing MP costs of all things as a defense? Stop right there, turn around, and stick to the real arguments that can actually be supported.

Remember your issue with archers having a guaranteed CC? This would be like me arguing to you back then that because archers have a low mana pool that can be easily drained, that it's somehow a real drawback towards the class being given an unblockable stun that can be spammed and has such an obnoxiously low channel/cast time that there's not a thing a person can do about it even when they see it coming.


*snip*.

It seems that you missed my overall point with that post.

I realize NONE of these are the major drawbacks ANYONE is wanting to see, but they ARE drawbacks nonetheless, as I pointed out in my first sentence just because it's a minor drawback does NOT mean it isn't a drawback at all.

That was including the mana drain towards barbs.

I realize not all of my arguments make sense, and like I said I am fully aware that these drawbacks are flimsy at best.

Also as I said the skill is oped, I wasn't defending it, I was merely pointing out some of the.. drawbacks, however pointless those drawbacks may be. They are still drawbacks nonetheless. (Much like that 2 foot soilder on the battlefield you shouldn't underestimate the size/strength of even the most minor (of)/littlest 'drawback') That is just a pure bad idea.

I listened, respected, and even applied some of the so called 'drawbacks' of the purify proc, and I also understand that this is different than that, and my 'counters' are as I said flimsy, but I really think it would be foolish for ANYONE to discount those 'drawbacks' just because they aren't the 'ace in the hole' that people want them to be. -AGAIN I am NOT saying the skill is balanced, but it does have its exploitable flaws, though aye it IS oped.- It IS silly when anything in game has questionable counters such as this skill. (Also I am fully aware that the flaws of the purify proc were far more exploitable than the flaws of this skill with barbs) So aye it does need to be nerfed.

After all as I have said before just because a skill/proc has its 'drawbacks/flaws' it does NOT mean it isn't oped.




---




In this case is NOT the quantity of stuns that has people in a tizzy, it is the quality of said 'stun'... or in this case paralyze.

People would undoubtedly be upset if bms both had a true battle ready way to CONSISTENTLY close gaps, and also survive ridiculously well, nigh regardless of their gear.

Evryn - Morai

Jabra_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And good luck trying change might swing. It is barbs lvl 16 skills, it cant be change or all the other classes have to get their skills change. >.<

It's also a new skill. Experiences in the field might cause it to be rebalanced yet. You can't test everything on the beta - the masses find other ways to use new toys.

Kiymori - Heavens Tear

It's not as though a suggestion here means anything anyway.

Remove purify people would QQ

Remove purge off bows people would QQ

Make Paralyze counter able or able to be purified(which I still think self purifying this skills would be pointless) people would STILL find reason to QQ about the skill or make another thread about why Tidal should be nerfed.

Want my honest opinion? If anything the skill could be changed to act like a stun but still maintain it's freeze or paralyze effect, but that would completely defeat the purpose as to why the devs changed it in the first place. The devs knew exactly what they were doing when they made mighty swing function the way it does, just like purify/tidal/purge on bows etc etc.

In case you have not noticed, people have been QQing about almost every classes skill or skills for something and they still haven't been changed, in fact some have just been beefed up even more (AKA Sins).

In other words deal with it and Learn2Play against itb:bye.

Eoria - Harshlands

When plat MP charms cost only 4-5m a pop and last a month at least and 3k MP pots can be gotten for free by doing Divine Order quests, MP cost is not a drawback. Period. Don't even argue it.

Anyway, I'll just say what I've been saying: let paralyze be resisted by anti-stun, but retain being unable to be purified.

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

OPKossy wrote: »

-snip lots of text

The new mighty swing is 100% accuracy

-snip lots of text

It's like some people never played PWI before, it's not the new mighty swing that is 100% accuracy, it always has been that way, since it was released. Years ago. Even at level 1.

It's 50% chance to actually paralyze, just move away. It's not that big of a deal.
If you expect not to be locked down by 2 or more players, you are either:
- Delusional
- Too heavy reliant on purify spell
- Need to git gud

I'm going to take a bet and say that the next complaint thread will be something in the trend of:
"Put a cooldown on the primal great cyclone for clerics".

Cause that could be considered broken as well, yet you dont see anyone complain about it. Yet.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Let me spell it out for you how mana drain CAN be a drawback.

Let's just assume the barb isnt being a total dolt and actually using more than one skill... and as you all know skills cost mana. Also something else I am sure you all are aware of... pots and food have a cooldown. If you catch a barb at just the right time with that mana drain it COULD disrupt a barbs attempt to consitently lock you down.

OBVIOUSLY that isn't always going to be successful, nor is it a solid way to deal with it, but still no matter how minor of a flaw that is... it STILL is a flaw.

Also one more thing acting like a caster would be just as effected by a mana drain is rather silly in my book. The likelihood hood of a barb getting hit by the mana drain and actually being effected by it more often than a caster/ranger is rather high. The mana drain skill does have a limited range... and 1.6k mp is a lot more damaging to those who have a low mana reserve than those who have a lot to spare though obviously casters do use more mana than barbs/any meleer. Still the fact tthat they will in all likely hood be out of the range of that mana drain means they will be effected by it less... not to mention their higher mana reserve.

Hypothetical situation here you are a sniper on a roof with a single load sniper gun and even though you can reload ridiculously fast you see 3 enemies approaching 2 have guns that can easily reach you the other isnt holding any guns but is holding a knife. Your first shot will undoubtedly give up you position. Knowing both gun wielders have guns capable of reaching you and trying to pick of 2 people who have that ability is without a doubt an uphill battle. Ergo you decide to take out one of the gun wielding bad guys. Even though you obviously have an advantage over the knife wielding bad guy... you know he could turn around his or her rather large disadvantage and make you pay especially with all of the surroundings.

My point in that story is this even though the window of opportunity is snall for the knife wielder... under the right circumstances that knife wielder can be real deadly, and really a lot more useful than it first seemed.

Again I agree its not the best/most exploitable flaw... and the skill is without a doubt overpowered.

2






s

Desdi - Sanctuary

OPKossy wrote: »

[..] all you folks trying to act like it's anything similar to the rest are doing is deluding yourselves to try and pretend it's not broken. Same as Nix venos did back when a Phoenix could solo most players. Same as Sins did when 23spark APS occult ice from stealth was a viable tactic to roflstomp basically everything in the game. Same as casters who claim purify spell is totally balanced and fair in all situations. [..]

This sums it up in my opinion b:surrender

opkossy

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It's like some people never played PWI before, it's not the new mighty swing that is 100% accuracy, it always has been that way, since it was released. Years ago. Even at level 1.

It's 50% chance to actually paralyze, just move away. It's not that big of a deal.

Way to completely miss the point and try to act like it's less of a deal than it really is. Cute attempt at misguiding as well. It's a 100% chance to land a control skill. It never misses. It costs no resources. It has a very fast channel speed which makes it near impossible to do anything about (either you pre-empt the opponent with Invul or it hits you and you don't get to react to it). It's spammable.

Prior to this when PKing I had to put some effort into my various skills on Barb. Now I have literally zero reason to not abuse this until I'm in a suitable position to follow through. And there's not a damn thing my opponents can reliably do about it.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Let me spell it out for you how mana drain CAN be a drawback.

Let's just assume the barb isnt being a total dolt and actually using more than one skill... and as you all know skills cost mana. Also something else I am sure you all are aware of... pots and food have a cooldown. If you catch a barb at just the right time with that mana drain it COULD disrupt a barbs attempt to consitently lock you down.

*snip*

... *sigh* Are you really going to use this? Really? In this day of auto-pot, charms, and the like?

Your proposed scenario has three issues that I will address. It has many MORE issues, which is going to happen when you try to defend something as utterly absurd as you've chosen, but I'll only address the following three.

1: MP charms are a thing. With a 5 second cooldown and ticking at 75% MP, any non-caster with a MP charm (such as, say, a plat MP charm you can get for free from Lucidgold) is not going to run out of MP unless you dedicate ALL your resources towards burning their MP... and if you're doing that they can laugh at you and either ignore or slaughter you.

2: If the charm fails, MP pots and foods are also a thing. MP foods are an average of 500 MP every second. Assuming the class you're trying to burn mana off of has 3k max MP all you've done is... absolutely nothing because the MP food is enough to fill their max mana almost twice over. If they're smart enough to use skills well like you want to assume in this scenario, they're smart enough know better than to let their MP drop too low since each individual skill they use is a larger chunk out of their mana pool than a caster doing the same thing has to face.

3: This is also why mana burn affects casters more than melees. Casters have higher mana costs in general and a single MP pot of near any level isn't going to be enough to heal them to full. Add in the fact that their only true method of attack needs MP and it winds up that mana burns actually have a real effect on them compared to physical classes that can always fall back on autos if, for some unknown reason, they have zero pots, no charm, and no MP. Of course, no caster is going to be stupid enough to NOT carry an ample supply of pots and/or a charm... so trying to theorycraft a situation where a melee is being stupid, passing it off as valid, and then claiming it's a logical defense is a bit discourteous on your end, don't you think? May as well just start talking about how TT99+5 can kill R9+12 as long as an exact set of circumstances just happen to occur in an exact way.



Like I said, other arguments, even if I don't agree with them, I can respect enough to at least give a chance to stand on its own. This mana thing you're trying is stupid though. Full stop. Even the RL example you gave doesn't compare. The mana equivalent would be putting the guy with the knife on the moon with a 20 year old, blurry, grainy picture of you as his only resource to try and hunt you down while the two with guns are actually within range of shooting you. Sure it's POSSIBLE the guy with the knife would get you before those with guns do... but it'd require such convolution and stupidity that you may as well outright dismiss him.







@Others saying it's pointless to point out this is broken: Remember when sins could 3spark in stealth? Remember how much IMMEDIATE RAGE that caused? Yeah that got nerfed pretty quickly for PWCN's crappy devs. Phoenix rampant bleed? Hard countered in a GREAT way by genies. Maybe with the original devs and enough useful feedback we can see more change that doesn't break the game in order to nerf the previously overpowered thing.

... Of course, they could always keep with the power creep and adding overpowered to counter overpowered, but I'd like to daydream for a while that having the original devs back will change that.



Edit: Lemme be clear. I don't mind paralyze itself. I can deal with a super CC that can only be blocked via IG when I'm on the opposite side of it. Having said CC have all the perks this version has with no drawback? That is what I'm against. Make it cost chi, or have an increased cooldown, or be able to miss/fail and NOT guarantee a CC regardless. Heck, it could even be changed to have a noticeable channel time so that people could at least try for the interupt and you could work around baiting people into wasting interupts while they'd have to try and save the interupts for when they knew they couldn't afford to have paralyze from mighty swing get them. Any of those options (as in not ALL of them at once for those idiots who will try and make a strawman about how if all that were to happen how you want X and Y as a boost) would make the skill far more balanced without a need to alter paralyze itself and would be simple to change. Like I've said from the start in other topics on the matter, however, what this skill provides is too many pros for no cons and that is what makes it so overpowered.

Doom_Panda - Harshlands

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

k, check my vid... find me a flaw in me trying to deal with those barbs..

you just cant deal with it... you get the paralyze, if there is a follow up by another paralyze and\or AA you are dead

Your genie is one problem imo... It's setup to do 1 thing for you and that is spark combo... 155 dex won't do much to break it...

And yeah it is broken if there's more than 1 barb focusing a target.

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

OPKossy wrote: »

Way to completely miss the point and try to act like it's less of a deal than it really is. Cute attempt at misguiding as well. It's a 100% chance to land a control skill. It never misses. It costs no resources. It has a very fast channel speed which makes it near impossible to do anything about (either you pre-empt the opponent with Invul or it hits you and you don't get to react to it). It's spammable.

Prior to this when PKing I had to put some effort into my various skills on Barb. Now I have literally zero reason to not abuse this until I'm in a suitable position to follow through. And there's not a damn thing my opponents can reliably do about it.

So what exactly do you do when it lands freeze instead of paralyze, stand still and do no counter attack at all, just wait until he mighty swings again?
Are people really that stupid?
You act like it paralyzes 100% of the time, which will make you unable to do anything 100% of the time, which is false.

Way to misguide yourself then.

As I said in my previous post, if you expect not to be CC'd to hell by 2 or more people spamming stuns, you are either heavy reliant on purify spell, delusional or a sin. (yes I added the sin part in this post, just so I won't misguide anyone this time).

In that view, Better idea, lets have 3 barbs spam primal mighty swing, and another 3 barbs spam primal stomp of the beast king so that skill damage gets increased. That'd make a fun thread.

trands

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As I said in my previous post, if you expect not to be CC'd to hell by 2 or more people spamming stuns, you are either heavy reliant on purify spell, delusional or a sin. (yes I added the sin part in this post, just so I won't misguide anyone this time).

Or you have a genie

Or you have a cleric/mystic/sage psychic in squad (thread is about mass pvp after all)

Or you have anti-stun apo that lasts significantly longer for the same cd as immunity

opkossy

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So what exactly do you do when it lands freeze instead of paralyze, stand still and do no counter attack at all, just wait until he mighty swings again?
Are people really that stupid?
You act like it paralyzes 100% of the time, which will make you unable to do anything 100% of the time, which is false.

Way to misguide yourself then.

... Are you trolling or being stupid?

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It's like some people never played PWI before, it's not the new mighty swing that is 100% accuracy, it always has been that way, since it was released. Years ago. Even at level 1.

It's 50% chance to actually paralyze, just move away. It's not that big of a deal.

Pick an argument. First you try and call people stupid for pointing out the 100% accuracy as a PART OF the reason this is broken. Not the WHOLE reason, mind you, merely a part of it. Yet you decide to act as though that's the entire foundation of what people find wrong with this and give the advice of "Just move away".

Then when I pretty much throw that stupidity out the window in my response, suddenly you conveniently forget your own "advice" and the fact that it was completely stupid since immobilize is the status ailment that... oh I dunno... PREVENTS MOVEMENT. Instead, you move on to attack the players instead of addressing any points made... because clearly that's a great way to prove your side.





Once again, please find a legitimate reason why this skill should have the following pros:
-Guaranteed control skill
-Never misses
-Has no chi cost
-Grants chi
-Minor channeling time
-Can be spammed
-Costs no resources

With the following cons:
-None



Heck, you can even prove I'm full of it by showing it's totally balanced within the context of the game by listing the multitude of other skills that have those properti-- oh wait that's right, there AREN'T any other skills that combine so much without any hindrance or restriction. And that's without considering that the effect on the skill is a paralyze! If it was still a normal stun, I'm sure we'd all be happy for barbs getting an improved CC. Yet here I am saying we don't need to nerf it from paralyze to stun since I'm rather fond of now having a way to keep people still they can't genie out of or prevent easily on my barb. BUT, that doesn't change the fact that I can recognize it should have SOME sort of drawback for all the perks it has. That's it. Some cost the Barb has to consider or that allows a player to attempt to counter it. Even one, and the skill would be much better received and more balanced.

Or we could go down the path of "LOL PARYLSIS R TEH UBER EVULZ AND NOBODY SHUD HAF EET!1!1!1!!shiftoneone" but personally, I don't like that road and feel it's untrue. Yeah it sucks for people who don't have purify spell since it was designed to counter purify spell, but it can be adapted to... provided the skills that cause it are reasonable. This version of Mighty Swing? Not reasonable when you aren't the one using it.

XXHotXx - Morai

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So what exactly do you do when it lands freeze instead of paralyze, stand still and do no counter attack at all, just wait until he mighty swings again?
Are people really that stupid?
You act like it paralyzes 100% of the time, which will make you unable to do anything 100% of the time, which is false.

Way to misguide yourself then.

As I said in my previous post, if you expect not to be CC'd to hell by 2 or more people spamming stuns, you are either heavy reliant on purify spell, delusional or a sin. (yes I added the sin part in this post, just so I won't misguide anyone this time).

In that view, Better idea, lets have 3 barbs spam primal mighty swing, and another 3 barbs spam primal stomp of the beast king so that skill damage gets increased. That'd make a fun thread.

wow you are a r.tard xD

do you realize not all the classes can leap, and by the time the freeze is done, the barb have landed another mighty swing till it procs

also leap cost chi and have a large cooldown... do you want to keep mighty swing like this?

Ok, give leaps to all the classes and reduce current leaps cooldown and chi to a spammable value

as OPKossy said, the CC is ok, the spammability is not, because in mass pvp breaks down team-fight mechanics in a spammable \ constant \ solid manner... no other class can do this, no other class cept sage sins can counter this

@doom_panda: i am forced to use a 155 dex genie for pvp cause as you surely know all the debuffs got heavily nerfed... with a 80 dex genie i land negligible sparks

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

wow you are a r.tard xD

do you realize not all the classes can leap, and by the time the freeze is done, the barb have landed another mighty swing till it procs

In conclusion of this thread:
If mighty swing proc's freeze instead of paralyze, people apparently are stupid enough to not counter CC the barb, or attack back, or do anything for that matter, they just wait for the next mighty swing to come in and land a paralyze and now can say BUT IM PARALYZED I CANT DO ANYTHING.

b:bye That is my entire point with every post, i'll be leaving this thread, apparently only a select few are clever enough to counter attack when it procs freeze instead of paralyze.

Also, mind you, these skills are made with the chinese player base in mind, not that of pwi. The skills don't get adjusted to our unskilled power creep version.

On a sidenote, why you still haven't gotten banned for going personal on people beats me, but that's also part of the reason why I said we need new mods in the may community thread.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Apologies for not quoting and snipping.

As I said I am NOT defending the skill it is OPED.

I do see why you brought up those very valid points about the mana drain, though I cant see every barb being prepared like you described most however will indeed do what you mentioned.

That real life scenario I brought up... it was a bit half baked (a lot got left out of it)... but while on my smartphone that is a difficult thing to fix... afterall it is why I didn't quote/snip.

I also see your point on number 3 but I still disagree with it... however I will respect your belief about that and leave it at that.

XXHotXx - Morai

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

In conclusion of this thread:
If mighty swing proc's freeze instead of paralyze, people apparently are stupid enough to not counter CC the barb, or attack back, or do anything for that matter, they just wait for the next mighty swing to come in and land a paralyze and now can say BUT IM PARALYZED I CANT DO ANYTHING.

b:bye That is my entire point with every post, i'll be leaving this thread, apparently only a select few are clever enough to counter attack when it procs freeze instead of paralyze.

Also, mind you, these skills are made with the chinese player base in mind, not that of pwi. The skills don't get adjusted to our unskilled power creep version.

On a sidenote, why you still haven't gotten banned for going personal on people beats me, but that's also part of the reason why I said we need new mods in the may community thread.

you have 1 second mirror to use ironguard, thats what you can do... deplete apo or genie to a spammable broken CC...

the only classes that can CC back are sins and bms.. and i am not ever sure they can do that in a 1 second mirror, and if barb breaks the stun here we go again..

and yes when you are PARALYZED YOU ACTUALLY CANT DO ANYTHING

Thanks god, i hope in future aswell you will save us from your toxic remarks

and wow did i really hear "mana drain" as a legit drawback for the skill? seriously? XD

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

you have 1 second mirror to use ironguard, thats what you can do... deplete apo or genie to a spammable broken CC...

the only classes that can CC back are sins and bms.. and i am not ever sure they can do that in a 1 second mirror, and if barb breaks the stun here we go again..

and yes when you are PARALYZED YOU ACTUALLY CANT DO ANYTHING

Thanks god, i hope in future aswell you will save us from your toxic remarks

and wow did i really hear "mana drain" as a legit drawback for the skill? seriously? XD

Let's pretend you don't have force of will or soroponic whisper... Distance shrink? You have 2s response time to use distance shrink and a CC from a far, like, for example the bigass AoE mountain seize stun or hailstorm
Clerics have seal of the god/Chromatic seal, silent seal to kite
Mystics have bramble tornado, gale force and thicket
Venomancers have bramble hood (not a CC but a hell of a good defense/reflect), lucky scarab.
Archers have 2 20m leaps, stunning arrow, elven alacrity, wings of grace, aim low, ataraxia.
seekers have quid pro quo
psychics have soul of retaliation, soul of stunning, earth vector, glacial shards...

How come only sins and bms can CC back?

Paralyze: Unable to MOVE (you can still use skills, apos and genie).

Eoria - Harshlands

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Paralyze: Unable to MOVE (you can still use skills, apos and genie).

That's freeze. You cannot use skills while paralyzed.

XXHotXx - Morai

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Let's pretend you don't have force of will or soroponic whisper... Distance shrink? You have 2s response time to use distance shrink and a CC from a far, like, for example the bigass AoE mountain seize stun or hailstorm
Clerics have seal of the god/Chromatic seal, silent seal to kite
Mystics have bramble tornado, gale force and thicket
Venomancers have bramble hood (not a CC but a hell of a good defense/reflect), lucky scarab.
Archers have 2 20m leaps, stunning arrow, elven alacrity, wings of grace, aim low, ataraxia.
seekers have quid pro quo
psychics have soul of retaliation, soul of stunning, earth vector, glacial shards...

How come only sins and bms can CC back?

Paralyze: Unable to MOVE (you can still use skills, apos and genie).

when i said the only classes that can CC back are bms and sins, obiouvsly i meant classes that can do that in a spammable\solid way and in a way they could break a paralyze loop

but yea was just too hard for you to attain such thing...

WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE SINGLE EVENT IN POSSIBLY 1ON1 SCENARIO,
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE CC DISRUPTION LOOP IN MASS PVP

wake up omg..

Kiymori - Heavens Tear

I will point this out for the last time. Mighty swing does NOT miss and has a basically 100% chance to freeze OR paralyze.

Lets assume it's 1v1, are you seriously trying to tell me the moment you see 1 PARALYZE pop up on you beginning/mid fight you're going to panic and spam genie/apoth to save yourself? If so please I implore you just practice PvP more because clearly you have no idea what you are doing if you're wasting your main defensive capabilities so quickly. The only time you should ever be wasting your apoth/genie is IF and only if you plan to come back with a good counter or the barb is about to kill you AFTER paralyze procs with a possible followup of occult or just OP damage.

Now I am going to complete squash this annoying argument of 'WAAAH Mighty swing combos so fast BRUH'. Mighty Swing is uses---->it FREEZES. What do you do? Well last I checked Mighty Swing has a cooldown, so if you seriously can't think fast enough to counter it ASSSUMING it was a freeze and not a paralyze then I have bad news. Anyway lets see some possibilities.

Wizard:FoW/Blink/Sleep? Stand there and get locked in another combo again? Learn to Kite?

Cleric:God Seal/Sleep+purify/Stand there and get locked in another combo?

Mystic:Pushback?Throw up barrier?Use Leech?Use Devil to stun? Use Storm to seal if demon/sage?

Archer:Stealth?Leaps?Wings?Learn to kite?

Assassin:Tidal/Stealth/Use one of their stuns/silence?

Venomancer:Unless you were caught outside fox form at the time, they should be just fine dealing with this.

Seeker:They should be capable of tanking the damage anyway....Doesn't really matter

Barb:I am sure they should have enough defense not worry about it

BM:Sit there and laugh and tank?Leaps?Stun?Silence?

Near Death:And now for the final scenario, lets assume it was paralayze and you are about to die if they finish their combo. Well time to cycle apoths/genie and kiting skills, just like any other 1v1 scenario.....Nah none of those things would save you from a possible combo lock, after all who on these servers actually is smart enough to think up a counter these days.

Ok now that's out of way lets assume it's mass PvP. Now lets be fully realistic here, how often do you run into a ton of barbs in MASS PVP other than TW(not even sure I should mention TW) and NW. But anyway I'll play along with the few who still are going on about this.If you're that person that runs into a bunch of barbs all the time in mass PvP then continue reading.

Now before I even go on I just want to point out some key thing about mass PvP. If you are being focused fired by more than one person and you already know your limits with your gear/HP etc. You SHOULD be kiting away, not standing there like an idiot trying to live, it only takes a second for someone in squad chat or Vent to simply call AA on you to finish you off.


Ok lets go back to the OP's video. If you watched it you noticed he used very clever use of genie/apoth/def charms and BLINK to escape even though he was paralyzed a few times. And also the main point being he was being FOCUSED by the 2 barbs at the time, but he didn't stand around to get facerolled by them. So in other words even with 2 barbs he CAN get away just fine and still maintain his normal duties as the nuker/decoy in the squad. Also as the OP said himself 'i've been lucky those barbs were not assisted by focus fire or i would've been dead in matter of seconds (when i got the proc and few AA on me i died indeed)'.

But as I have been saying before, this applies to ANY group of classes CCing you and FFing you at end game. in other words apply this same scenario to 2 other classes the results would be the same.Also lets not forget that you still have the almighty purify to HELP support you in your kiting needs. So if you got hit by 2 barbs they would have to be consistently Paralyzing you 1 after the other to render your purify useless, which as your video has proven, would most likely not happen 100% of the time(By the way what in the world were your allies in that video doing? I saw next to 0 support to help you at least distract the barbs off of you for a while).


Now again I will say this, what exactly is the difference if it was 2 sins or 2 bms for example? If 2 sins are on you would have to expend your apoth/genie/charms to kite them JUST like 2 barbs with 50% paralyze or freeze. It's not as though for some reason just because it's paralyze doesn't mean you can't defend yourself. As far as I am concerned this paralyze skill only really becomes a major concern to squishy classes and arcanes whether it's mass or 1v1.

Who knows, maybe this was the Devs intentional change to help barbs deal with purify, as well as their allies in group PvP. But at the same time if they do choose to change paralyze(which I doubt they will since their patches are made to cater to their player base 90% of the time, but if they do go for it) I already suggested what could be done.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Kiymori - Heavens Tear wrote: »

*snip*

Barb:I am sure they should have enough defense not worry about it

BM:Sit there and laugh and tank?Leaps?Stun?Silence?

Battle of the paralyzes rawr!


The barb side would be really interesting to see who's paralyze would proc more.

The bm side, I am sure they would just use their own paralyze skill while in the immobilization phase of might swing.

Though that is strictly speaking for one on one's whereas in mass pvp, it is far more likely that the first paralyze to land, will end up doing the most "damage" especially if there is help around. Though if the enemy has help... then yea there is less of a chance of the paralyze being used repeatedly, though that does depend on their help/the person using paralyze not being under anti stun.

Still despite the flaws that it arguably has, whether they are HUGE. tiny, or undisputed flaws or not doesn't matter... it is a oped skill in the right situations, be it in mass pvp, or 1 vs 1.

Even the 'tiniest' of flaws (disadvantages) have the potential to really change the tide of battle, even if they are random flaws, they should not be discounted, and nor should they be relied upon.

Example:

A bullet flies in a straight line, but due to how fast it travels/how uncommon it is for an obstacle to be in between you and the gun, you will in all likelihood be hit, BUT you still wouldn't just stand still and let the bullet hit you if you can help it, sure you aren't always going to be able to get out of the way in time, but that doesn't mean you should discount the fact that a bullet travels in a straight line/will be impeded by solid objects.

Although no one in their right mind would rely upon this next example, whether they are behind the gun or in front of it, still if the gun does do this, each side would need to be prepared for it... in other words do not 'ignore' the possibility of it regardless of how slim it is, and that is the gun JAMMING. If the gun jams for the person on the receiving end, then that person could easily use that window of opportunity to turn the tides of that 'fight', but likewise the person behind it should be trained in other ways of combat in case the unthinkable happens.


--

For the record I never said that people should rely on the WEAK 'flaw/drawback' (disadvantage of a low mana pool barb)/being mana drained. (Just because a weak disadvantage can easily be countered in most situations, it doesn't mean it should be discounted/ignored as if it will never be useful at all.

---

Either way I really don't think I can explain it any better than that, and I really am not trying to sway the opinion of this skill, as it is stupid ridiculous under the right circumstances, as was the purify proc, hell I feel that... that is still quite broken, but meh that so isn't a discussion for this thread.

XXHotXx - Morai

Kiymori - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I will point this out for the last time. Mighty swing does NOT miss and has a basically 100% chance to freeze OR paralyze.

Lets assume it's 1v1...

stop
are you blind?

how many times me and others pointed out that mighty swing in 1on1 is just fine,

but the spammability disrupts MASS PVP MECHANICS ?

Do you call balance removing the chance given to any class to back off from AA, cause you are perma-paralyzed? (except if you are a sage sin)

and this doesnt apply to other standard CCs, cause other standard CCs can be broken by stuff like badge of courage, can be purified - purify procd
and i didnt save my nuker role or w.e. i could barely land a fast channelling skill before getting into the paralyze status once again

and remember still that to proc purify you have to hit the target several times, so instead of QQing about purify justifying the necessity of this broken uncounterable CC,

just send the hardest DPHers to AA on me (they had few sins but they never AAd on me),
it will need less hits to get me killed therefore i will have less chances to proc my purify

and all your post is so full of sh.it,

sh.it like not knowing that mighty swing cooldown is just 1 second slower than the proc itself,
thus wiz or bms for example cant kite away undefinetly from it
sh.it like saying that cleric should purify or archer use wings of grace

man have you ever landed that proc once? xD


and seriously the next one that will come out with more 1v1 arguments should just go set himself on fire

Kiymori - Heavens Tear

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

stop
are you blind?

how many times me and others pointed out that mighty swing in 1on1 is just fine,
I addressed 1v1 and mass PvP. My post is not just directed to you but also to educate everyone who views this read or is posting in it. Learn to read and understand that posts or ideas made on forums or even in real life are not always 1 sided and can be made to address more than one issue. If you don't understand then ASK first before you start ranting.

but the spammability disrupts MASS PVP MECHANICS ?
Do you call balance removing the chance given to any class to back off from AA, cause you are perma-paralyzed? (except if you are a sage sin)
Not even sure what you are trying to say here but it sounds to me like more useless crying, I gave a suggestion in an earlier post what can be done about the skill if need be.

and this doesnt apply to other standard CCs, cause other standard CCs can be broken by stuff like badge of courage, can be purified - purify procd
and i didnt save my nuker role or w.e. i could barely land a fast channelling skill before getting into the paralyze status once again
Again as I said in my other post how the skill could be changed, feel free to go read it. And your logic is still flawed because I already pointed out more than once that EVEN IF WASN'T PARALYZE YOU WOULD EXPEND YOUR GENIE/APOTH/SKILLS TO ESCAPE LEAVING YOU VUNERABLE.And on top of that if you were being Focused fired enough during your genie CD YOU WILL DIE WITHOUT SOME KIND OF SUPPORT in virtually any real mass PVP scenario which you even said yourself and PROVED with your video.So again this argument your trying to use with genies/purify what ever the case may be is pointless.

and remember still that to proc purify you have to hit the target several times, so instead of QQing about purify justifying the necessity of this broken uncounterable CC,
I think it's a fair trade off and that's just my opinion. After all it's not as though you can counter purify either when it procs.


just send the hardest DPHers to AA on me (they had few sins but they never AAd on me),
it will need less hits to get me killed therefore i will have less chances to proc my purify
And thats EXACTLY my point, thanks for once again proving what I said that if you got Focused Fired enough you would have died anyway assuming purify didn't save you or genie CDed in time. But the reality is that it's MASS PVP, things don't always go the way they should go. If I was leading that squad I would have asked the sins to pick you off a long time ago, but it looks just fine that the barbs were at least keeping you busy. But then again barbs were always just mainly decoys/meat shields in mass PvP, but as of now they can play an even deadlier role.


and all your post is so full of sh.it,
Show me where?

sh.it like not knowing that mighty swing cooldown is just 1 second slower than the proc itself,
thus wiz or bms for example cant kite away undefinetly from it
sh.it like saying that cleric should purify or archer use wings of grace
And this where your overall inability to fully read and comprehend really began to shine. If you actually took the time to read what I said about ANY of this apparent 'sh.it' you claim I wrote you would have understood I was talking about FREEZE scenarios and not paralyze. And on top of that I even gave a solution for if it was a PARALYZE scenario. But hey you clearly didn't take the time to fully read and understand my posts so you blindly came at me with misguided interpretations of what I wrote, so maybe I shouldn't fault you for that.

man have you ever landed that proc once? xD
Judge for yourself, apparently some of us take the time to learn and adapt while others cry about apparent 'broken' mechanics


and seriously the next one that will come out with more 1v1 arguments should just go set himself on fire
Next time before you declare someones post is full of 'sh.it' maybe you should actually take the time to read and understand THEN respond. It would actually make you sound like you have an intelligent argument versus completely blind ranting.

Honestly I don't even know why I am bothering to respond to you because your post only show that you either don't know how to read or you're just purposely ignoring everything I have said and responding with random arguments that have little to nothing to do with core of my posts.

Allow me to pick apart your nonsensical drama filled post in red so hopefully you have an easier time using common sense to not only understand but actually read what I post.

slamstone

why do i even bother? idk

Yes mighty swing is OP, but same can be said with the other skills that are breaking the game.

Requesting a nerf on it, while there are so many other broken skills that give "uncomfortable" advantages to other specific classes is just QQ and incredibly bias.

The solution is simple: deal with it!

@hot: please stop making a fool of yourself, learn to kite you are not a tank! Read guides, watch videos, anything that would improve your kitting and you should be safe from the evil mighty swing. Idk who you are or what you do, but by your comments kitting is not your thing.

Again: spamming mighty swing in mass pvp leaves barbs with a big reduction on physical res/hp/mobility, aspect that can be taken into account by the surrounding allies and acted upon, if that barb becomes too of an impediment.

Again: 2 chars just to disable 1 (and not kill) is not a good tradeoff if the numbers are balanced

1 barb does not suffice to get one perma CC'ed considering the luck factor, and even if he is lucky as hell he can only do just that, no debuffs or other skill combos sufficient to kill u, while in the process of perma cc (that is if you are trying to take distance from barb and not just stand and tank it).

XXHotXx - Morai

Kiymori - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Honestly I don't even know why I am bothering to respond to you because your post only show that you either don't know how to read or you're just purposely ignoring everything I have said and responding with random arguments that have little to nothing to do with core of my posts.

Allow me to pick apart your nonsensical drama filled post in red so hopefully you have an easier time using common sense to not only understand but actually read what I post.

half of your arguments were off-topic,

we're not discussing freezee we are discussing paralyze

we're not discussing 1on1, we are discussing mass pvp

and your logic is flawed, not mine..

every class should have at least 1 natural escape to AA, else that class can be REMOVED \ DISRUPTED COMPLETELY from a theorical mass pvp scenario

paralyze proc spam takes away any natural escape to focus fire in mass pvp

that is broken and has to be nerfed with a major cooldown or chi cost.

this is the point.

also a mere freeze wouldnt force me to use my genie or apo, and i ll still be able to take actions like CC the target back or actually damage

so your logic is even more flawed

Kiymori - Heavens Tear

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

half of your arguments were off-topic,

we're not discussing freezee we are discussing paralyze

we're not discussing 1on1, we are discussing mass pvp

and your logic is flawed, not mine..

every class should have at least 1 natural escape to AA, else that class can be REMOVED \ DISRUPTED COMPLETELY from a theorical mass pvp scenario

paralyze proc spam takes away any natural escape to focus fire in mass pvp

that is broken and has to be nerfed with a major cooldown or chi cost.

this is the point.

also a mere freeze wouldnt force me to use my genie or apo, and i ll still be able to take actions like CC the target back or actually damage

so your logic is even more flawed

See this is why for me and apparently some others you're coming off as illogical and nonsensical.You once AGAIN are reading part of my post and writing yours accordingly even after I tried to make it easier for you to read and understand, maybe there is just no hope. You are also AGAIN blindly attacking my points without any supporting reason other than 'your logic is flawed'. Show me exactly WHERE with quotes my logic is flawed. All you have done so far is state claims without anything to back it up. Where as I actually took the sensible approach and provided reasons/support and suggestions for my posts.b:bye

XXHotXx - Morai

Kiymori - Heavens Tear wrote: »

See this is why for me and apparently some others you're coming off as illogical and nonsensical.You once AGAIN are reading part of my post and writing yours accordingly even after I tried to make it easier for you to read and understand, maybe there is just no hope. You are also AGAIN blindly attacking my points without any supporting reason other than 'your logic is flawed'. Show me exactly WHERE with quotes my logic is flawed. All you have done so far is state claims without anything to back it up. Where as I actually took the sensible approach and provided reasons/support and suggestions for my posts.b:bye

wat? if you cant understand the terms i use, prolly you dont have enough mmorpg pvp experience as i do

your logic is flawed because you claim that removing "natural abilities" like simple kites, cleanses or antistuns to avoid Focus Fire (after getting a permanent uncounterable CC) is just legit

and that is nor logic either it isnt legit

cause w.e. the class you are (the concept is invalid for sage sins), if you will get into the paralyze loop and you ll suffer AA , you wont be able to back out of it

what you said is that any other 2 classes would've CCed me the same way and exposed me to AA,

very very wrong, you can purify cleanse kite or prevent other CCs with plenty of skills, genie, apo...

you cant purify cleanse kite or prevent Mighty Swing proc