Tweaked TT Bosses?

TheDan - Sanctuary

MasterofIce - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i understand you still dont get, it , you dont even try to, the massive damage increases were ONLY when bosses were made in squad not a single guy making them solo.
Next guy in my ignorelist, you dont even TRY to read what others are typing.

I read and understood what you wrote; I never said I believed it. I acknowledged that your evidence is about as reputable as something I'd find written in a bathroom stall in jail. Seeing as how you can't back up your assertions with any screen-shots, and everyone else confirming it cannot either, they're about as reliable as something Yulk would attest to.

Baalbak - Dreamweaver

MasterofIce - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i understand you still dont get, it , you dont even try to, the massive damage increases were ONLY when bosses were made in squad not a single guy making them solo.
Next guy in my ignorelist, you dont even TRY to read what others are typing.

as i said before, i can sub a couple more full squad runs if that satifies you. I for one do not expect to see a change in my own damages received. I see that you are on my server.. when the video finishes uploading (25% more), you are more than welcome to come along. I just don't want to log back in right now since I'll have like 6k ping from uploading this video.

MasterofIce - Dreamweaver

Already doing a test run now, with a ha, an aa and me as la class. Hope we find a clue...

Update, had a very nice hit by Drummer -

Here my def



So, using calcs:

14.5k max mag. dmg * 40% (60% mag dmg reduce)= 5.8k

53 lvl below Drummer = 5.8k*153% = 8.8k

I was in BB so would be max 4.4k dmg right?
WRONG:

Larkray - Dreamweaver

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

You're one to talk about using same tactics, whereas you're not even tanking the boss, the herc is. You're taking AOE damage, which is a skill damage different from the boss' base physical damage. The boss' base physical attack doesn't even correspond to a skill damage. Boss AoE skills =/= base physical attack. If you're going to suggest everyone using the same tactics then go melee tank the boss to test it's true damage range. If you try range tanking you'll take its magic damage, not its physical. The AoE is a physical skill, not a base physical.

For the record, I have all my level 11 skills and most my gear is +10, and I will never have the same buffs as you because it makes no sense to walk around with level 10 bell when I have level 11 self buffed.



You aren't even including that BMs have triple spark that heals HP, marrows, have higher evasion, and have shadowless kick, as well as spiked phys def from demon bell. Venoes will never have the same HP / resistance a BM does because they will never have marrows or as much evasion.
As a heavy armor venomancer i have the same if not more physical AND magical defense than you will under same buff conditions. Heavy armor refines the same on me as it does for you, so again the HP is also irrelevant. Evasion was useless to bring up, because you cannot evade a magic attack.


Boss AoE skill =/= base physical damage. Stop comparing damage taken from a skill to its' physical attack as the skill is variable to how much HP it has remaining. They're not even the same thing. If you want objective data there needs to be a controlled variable. The HP is not constant, so the AoE skill is never going to be the same.

The aoe physical attacks are in fact based off his physical base attack. it's not a skill as there's no channeling on it that could be interrupted.


You don't even know what BP does do you? It heals me, and has nothing to do with my damage taken. You can get 35K phys def, but your herc tanks, not you. What's the point? Venoes can never get the same resistances and HP as a BM simply because venoes don't have marrows, as much evasion or as much HP per vit as BMs.

again HP is not the issue, as it doesn't reduce the damage you take in any way.

I can pull unconfirmed random stuff out of my *** too.

Symptoms of playing a Veno character include being gullible, lack of logic, and taking heightened damage from bosses in game that cannot be replicated by anyone else

Symptoms of playing an incomprehensible *** include being ret.arded, failing to see logic in other people's posts, and other trollworthy symptoms.

Finally someone posting with sound logic. There's way too much stupidity on this thread.

Did you not even notice my calculations?

Responses in red.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Larkray - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As a heavy armor venomancer i have the same if not more physical AND magical defense than you will under same buff conditions. Heavy armor refines the same on me as it does for you, so again the HP is also irrelevant. Evasion was useless to bring up, because you cannot evade a magic attack.

If ignoring DPS, end Game BMs with Rank 9 G16 Gear is HA and class specific. They also get more vit per HP, marrows, can spike phys def through demon bell. Evasion in PvE isn't useless considering how BMs are melee, and mobs/bosses will melee 90% of the time when up close.

Larkray - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The aoe physical attacks are in fact based off his physical base attack. it's not a skill as there's no channeling on it that could be interrupted.

They do have channeling time and can be interrupted. I shadowless kick interrupt boss AoEs all the time.

Larkray - Dreamweaver wrote: »

again HP is not the issue, as it doesn't reduce the damage you take in any way.

HP doesn't reduce damage, but it increases overall effective survivability.

Larkray - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Symptoms of playing an incomprehensible *** include being ret.arded, failing to see logic in other people's posts, and other trollworthy symptoms.

Oh, I saw logic in other people's posts. It was the horrible kind of logic and therefore I stopped reading as soon as I detected a horrific amount of stupidity.

Larkray - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Did you not even notice my calculations?

Nothing noteworthy.

Knownase - Heavens Tear

Solo'd TT2-3 earlier, killed them with ease, nothing changed.

Also barely just reading this thread, if that was said already...oops.....b:laugh

MasterofIce - Dreamweaver

Please lovely trolls read my last post and explain me the damage please, wanna see how you do this again...

Baalbak - Dreamweaver

Larkray - Dreamweaver wrote: »

For starters, Read the very first line that states what type of enemy that Fatiliqua is. It states he is a ranged type enemy, when he is clearly a pure physical type. It also states he's only got 2 server drops which proves even more how reliable PWdatabase is for accuracy.... anywho...

As was stated before, what reason would possess me to take random screenshots of damage for the microscopic possibility that they would increase the damage in the future, and I would need screenshot proof of said damage, so I could compare those numbers to the damage today? Also note that the people who are stating there's no change absolutely whatsoever, were in squad mode yes but SOLOING the bosses. It could be an AI tweak that detects when someone is Soloing the instance to make the bosses drops/damage/ability weaker than when that same boss is attacked by a squad.

But fine. You want proof? Read the numbers and calculations below and call me a liar now.

And for the damage from fatas$ first boss in 2-3, with 25k physical defense i've got 86% reduction from enemies. The straight reduction along with various debuffs such as threaten (pet skill) reduces another 25% + Wind shield from genie to absorb another 12% equates to about 904 damage. Now considering the fact he's a level 150 boss his damage is a bit higher than a normal white mob attacking me with his damage range

The math:
10269 (his max phys) *86% (phys def reduc) = 8831 (reduction)
10269 (his max) - 8831 = 1438 (straight damage w/o debuffs)
1438 - 25% damage (threaten skill) = 1078.5 (1079 for sake of even math)
1079 - 12% damage (wind shield dex genie) = 949.52 (950 for sake of math)
Level 150 boss adds 10% more damage for level range = 1045

Final damage = 1045

That math PROVES his maximum hits on me used to be about 1045 (i stated 1100 from memory) He now hits for 1600-1900 per attack. Thats a change of 60-90% increase from previously

Side note: once you've reached a certain physical defense % level your damage reduction peaks. (97% reduction is absolute peak I think which is equivalent of 52k physical defense)

Larkray - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Responses in red.

I think you are doing something wrong there Lark...
The math:
10269 (his max phys) *86% (phys def reduc) = 8831 (reduction)
10269 (his max) - 8831 = 1438 (straight damage w/o debuffs)
1438 - 25% damage (threaten skill) = 1078.5 (1079 for sake of even math)
1079 - 12% damage (wind shield dex genie) = 949.52 (950 for sake of math)
Level 150 boss adds 10% more damage for level range = 1045

.86 = y / (40 * 101 + y)
.86 * (4040 + y) = y
.86y + 3,474.4 = y
y - .86y = 3,474.4
.14y = 3,474.4
y = 24,817.14285714286 <-- approximation of Larkray's pdef by working backwards with the number she gave us. we will be nice and give her a flat 25,000 for purposes of the next part:

Damage multiplier for lark's pdef against a level 150 attacker:

(1 - defense / (40 * attacker level + defense))
1 - 25,000 / 40 * 150 + 25,000 = 0.1935483870967742 <-- damage multiplier
10269 * 0.1935483870967742 * .75 * .88 = 1,311.781935483871 <-- should be the max damage she is seeing on fatty while she has threaten and wind shield up.. according to the formulas, and based upon a rough guestimate of her actual defenses and not accounting for any defense levels. Its hard to imagine that its possible to keep those both up constantly, so the damage you take appears to be when one or the other (or both) is not active.

Now lets add in the anniversary blessing that adds 15 defense levels:
1312 / (1 + (1.2 * (defense level - attack level) / 100))
1312 / 1.18 = 1,111.864406779661 <-- very close to the number you quoted off of memory.

I suspect that players are noticing a difference in damage received now that their anniversary blessings have worn off (for those that picked them up late).

Larkray - Dreamweaver

MasterofIce - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Already doing a test run now, with a ha, an aa and me as la class. Hope we find a clue...

Update, had a very nice hit by Drummer -

Here my def



So, using calcs:

14.5k max mag. dmg * 40% (60% mag dmg reduce)= 5.8k

53 lvl below Drummer = 5.8k*153% = 8.8k

I was in BB so would be max 4.4k dmg right?
WRONG:

also another addition for Hercules pet damage calculations.

Hercules pet level 100 has 7,900 physical and magical defense. With buffs, that defense comes to 19,750. The HP comes to 4,500 or whereabouts.

Soul Banisher's MAXIMUM damage with magic is 14330.

19,750 defense equates to 83% reduction.

So.... 14330 - 83% reduction = 1,728 damage + 10% (boss) = 2.3k damage.

Since a herc has 4.5k hp, 2.3k damage should NOT take him far beyond half health per magic attack cast. Yet each time in todays squad, the pet went well beyond half HP, till the point he was eventually one shot.

Baalbak - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I think you are doing something wrong there Lark...
The math:
10269 (his max phys) *86% (phys def reduc) = 8831 (reduction)
10269 (his max) - 8831 = 1438 (straight damage w/o debuffs)
1438 - 25% damage (threaten skill) = 1078.5 (1079 for sake of even math)
1079 - 12% damage (wind shield dex genie) = 949.52 (950 for sake of math)
Level 150 boss adds 10% more damage for level range = 1045

.86 = y / (40 * 101 + y)
.86 * (4040 + y) = y
.86y + 3,474.4 = y
y - .86y = 3,474.4
.14y = 3,474.4
y = 24,817.14285714286 <-- approximation of Larkray's pdef by working backwards with the number she gave us. we will be nice and give her a flat 25,000 for purposes of the next part:

Damage multiplier for lark's pdef against a level 150 attacker:

(1 - defense / (40 * attacker level + defense))
1 - 25,000 / 40 * 150 + 25,000 = 0.1935483870967742 <-- damage multiplier
10269 * 0.1935483870967742 * .75 * .88 = 1,311.781935483871 <-- should be the max damage she is seeing on fatty while she has threaten and wind shield up.. according to the formulas, and based upon a rough guestimate of her actual defenses and not accounting for any defense levels. Its hard to imagine that its possible to keep those both up constantly, so the damage you take appears to be when one or the other (or both) is not active.

Even if it was 1,311 damage that still does not match 16-1900 damage, and yes I can keep those debuffs up constantly. Resummoning pet lets me reuse the skill, along with having the skill on the pet 2 times. And a magic/dex genie i can instantly recast wind shield as it expires each and every time.

Baalbak - Dreamweaver

read my edit please lark, as for your ability to keep those up constantly I suppose I would have to do a run with you in a bit to see this in action.

btw: link to solo video of soulbanisher in 1-3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xP5ZuIlhHI

Endariel - Dreamweaver

I went to eat and people decided to splurge on my account. As I said before TheDan, do NOT make assumptions about me with no base at all. I know exactly waht BP does and thus I said that I (as in myself and not in general population) do not consider it a solo skill becasue as said before I CAN NOT USE IT ON ME!! so can't go tanking myself and thus must rely on herc whoose defences are far hygher when herc buffs are on.

I said to use lvl 10 skills because that was what I had on and if you use 11 skills you are already gaining a better bonus, at least from bell, but go ahead ang get sage barb buff if you really need that much hp to tank. As for brabmle, I said specifically IF you think it helps with defence because I KNOW IT DOESN'T, veno skill remember?

Furhtermore what I wanted was to see how AOE and ONLY AOE hits on you while in solo, because I did not do squaded run yet and thus could not extripulate on what might be the damage on me from AOE then. From what I saw now that I DID run one, in BB damage never exceeded the 1K FROM AOE ONLY. On the other hand herc DID die which did NOT happen while soloing same instance with same settings just a day before. I do not know how hard or how fast herc was hit, all I know is that it died even though I spam healed just as always on this boss. It could be skill lag or glitch, could be boss chained attacks, could be the fairy god mother decided to tap herc on the head in the wrong time. All I know is that herc died while tanking in squad when while I was soloing it did not die. Untill such time somone tells me how to see damage pets take I will be unable to provide better evidence than a single screenshot a second after herc dropped (kind of hard to grab screenshot on time when you aren't expecting herc death).

One more thing.. Don't you EVER dare compare skills from different classes that are unique to said class. its like saying that a barb doesn't ever get hit cause he has huge HP and uses invoke. Yes, BMs have some advantageous skills that help ALOT while soloing mobs/bosses. Yes BP is an awesome skill which is useless to venos or to that matter non close range phys players. And yes, if you have best buffs, with best gear with best apoth and charms and food and whatnot you WON'T die or even notice the damage while tanking simple bosses like banisher in 1-3. But when the only skill you can use for damage reduction is Hood and when you are AA who doesn't have high def stats or high att channeling/aps/whatever you start noticing how damage stacks.

So far this is what I found. AOE from boss Soulbanisher in 1-3 remains unchanged either in solo squad run or in squaded squad run thus removing ONE hypothesis. This does NOT mean that there was no change, just makes it less likely.
Squaded sqaud run made few moments ago showed that damage on herc is slightly higher because while soloing herc was hit for around 1/4 of its 4.5K hp it was now recievening about 1/2 HP damage with each hit. I am not sure why that happens, am not a developer, but I suspect that while in squad the damage of banisher was pushed more towards the higher end of its range (doesn't mean outside it). This phenomenon IS something that can be implemented easely (AI counts number of people aggroing it and pushes damage arc slightly up to compensate), and no, I don't know if thats what happened. I could be unlucky and banisher decided to hit herc harder this time.

Real test would be on wulord I think. If I can tank with herc alone in squad mode but fail to do so while with other players it will provide at least SOME inclination to a change.
Untill then, I remind all those who are here that this thread IS NOT an argument about whether something changed or not, but a discussion if you noticed a difference. Therefore, if you did not norice, post a big NO and leave for good, happily knowing you contributed your opinion. If you DID notice, please post what and where and what exactly happened.

And for heavens sake, enough drama from random trolls. We got your point, you didn't see a change. Good whoopty doo for you. We all appreciate your vocal contibution to the conversation and would still prefer that you do NOT continue posting same lines all over the thread. If you are right than we will see it soon enough ourselves, if WE are right than soon enough we will have proof to show the GMS and you will all see a new patch fixing the issue (probably a 5 seconds download for one single file).
If you want my opinion, I would rather there was no change and that I am just unlucky and inexperiacned but unlike you all I am actually TESTING things out. Want to disproove me? great! Post screenshots, 3-4 links is more than enough if they are consistant. If you rather spend your time on other things please do it somewhere else, some of us are trying to actually see if something IS wrong.

Oh and will add screenshot link of dead pet message when I get back home again (Don't know what you might learn from that but meh, got one so will post one).

Eoria - Harshlands

Zzz...wait. You're ******** because your pet died a couple times on bosses KNOWN for their high damage range? Seriously? Just chalk it up to bad luck.

Endariel - Dreamweaver

Baalbak, watched video, can't see a damned thing from damage (main reason for screenshots is that I can zoom in on them on own comp, can't do that on video cause that will make screen big but not more readable). If you would be so kind as to post a screenshot from that run if you have it, and preferably some from when it was towards end of its HP when AOE was also hitting a bit. Those kind of screenshots are EXACTLY what I have been asking from my very first post.

Oh and btw, I don't care whether banisher is soloable, I already proved he is with herc when soloed him myself, and before you start, herc tanking IS soloing for veno cause all I do is be hercs substitute food+charm+apoth.. consider herc a mini barb with infinite supply of food and fast ticking charm. I don't usually tend to DD while herc attacks cause too much can go wrong so am really not there other than to be a human HP potion ( and if a veno can solo so can others with the right gear/buffs/items).

Also, as stated by others, the biggest issue seemed to be NOT in solo runs but in fully squaded ones. I would be gratefull if you can squad with some pople and do some screenshots then (in BB, outside BB, I don't care, I can do maths myself later).

MasterofIce - Dreamweaver

As far as i could see the few magic hits, you got mostly half dmg or same dmg like me from magic hits - as you can see in one of my posts, my mag def is higher... And remember, i was in bb.
So its obvious that soloing a squad boss is kinda easy, cuz dmg is normal.

Endariel - Dreamweaver

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Zzz...wait. You're ******** because your pet died a couple times on bosses KNOWN for their high damage range? Seriously? Just chalk it up to bad luck.

Did you not read after you got to the part where I said herc died? I DID say I am not sure what it was, and AM considering it bad luck. Also note that this boss DOES NOT usually kill lvl 100 hercs as proven before when I soloed him. I have been soloing banisher when I was 90 and herc didn't die, although he was always on the verge every time banisher hit it, so I see no real reason for it to die when its 10 levels higher aside from, as stated before, either skill lag (which IS bad luck) or boss chaining attacks as people said it does (which I consider even worse luck that herc was the one to get chained on) so one way or another I was NOT *expicit word deleted* about herc death, if I did I would never stop *explicit word deleted* about herc death from morning to midnight due to the amount of times I either forget to heal pet, get skill lag, get general lag, just act stupid and pull 50 mobs on one poor herc. Oh and banisher doesn't have THAT high a damage range, after all its only in 1-3, if it did our good natured video-barb would have been splattered on the ground as a nice brown stain instead of quite steadely doing the same courtesy to banisher in his video. So yeah, sorry to dissapoint your QQ expectations Eoria, but I rather enjoy the challange. On the other hand I would still like to know if TT changed or if its just a regular wave of bad luck so will keep probing till am satesfied.

Baalbak - Dreamweaver

zoom in to full screen Endarial. its available in HD 1440 x 900. Thats plenty enough good resolution for you to see both the numbers popping up over my head, as well as scrolling up in the damage log in chat window. If you need to be able to download it to freeze a frame or save a frame to image file I can recommend some programs. The video file itself suffices to show the damage log quite effectively, so I did not save out any screen shots. The video is all sequential with no edits done to it.

for downloading youtube videos I use: http://www.dvdvideosoft.com/
for exporting specific frames (or strings of frames) I use: http://www.virtualdub.org/ and/or http://fixounet.free.fr/avidemux/

Endariel - Dreamweaver

I tried but I guess I just can't get good resolution on a borrowed comp at work. I will look again from home tommorow evening. If you DO happen to make some screenies of other runs with full squads I would appreciate links to them (net is slow so downloading even one vid takes a looooooooooong time).

Added note, did wulord in 2-1.. he is still nothing overly ouch though as always his first hit is killer on me (not death but almost). no screenshot cause its nothing noticibly unusual after the first hit. Will do 2-2 as said before when I have more than 2 hours of play time.
Would appreciate some 2-3 screenshots of people squading wulord (BB or no BB don't care) and of course general def stats on tank would be great as well.

Xarathox - Dreamweaver

Could it be that those 5 aps players aren't seeing similar results is because they're...well....5 aps? And in perma spark? Effectively Resisting at least half of the damage others would?

Just a thought.

Baalbak - Dreamweaver

So i just did a 5 man run on 1-3 (again made a video). again purposely letting him hit me with magic (to test if that part was supposedly higher in squad mode per another person's suggestion). I didn't receive any damage higher than was expected under BB. Again I made a video of this run. Off the top of my head, the highest magical damage I received was approx 3k+ under BB, which is to be expected if you look back at my previous damage formula. The buff conditions were the same on this run as my solo run. I'm not convinced there is any change at all, honestly.

I will note that i started the video shortly after starting the boss so the first magical hit I took is not shown in the video, but it was just about 6k - as was the first magical hit of my solo run. I see no change between squad mode as a squad, and squad mode done solo. I can upload my second video later on tonight, but not any time soon. i have stuff to do for faction now.

sangodoc

Larkray - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As I've said several times. Soloing a squad mode boss is dealing different results than tanking that same boss in a squad. So those of you saying you'll solo the bosses for testing, that point is irrelevant >.<

That is true, but only if your premise is true. However, I have never even heard anyone claim that your premise is true before, let alone seen any good objective evidence for it.

Care to post some? Good objective (not anecdotal) evidence is far more convincing than posting in big red letters.

A comparison where you have the exact same gear and buffs, with being in a squad or not being the only variable, and show a full list of the damage from 20+ hits, along with a comparison of the averages and standard deviations for both situations would be ideal.

Sereneai - Dreamweaver

Endariel - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Added note, did wulord in 2-1.. he is still nothing overly ouch though as always his first hit is killer on me (not death but almost). no screenshot cause its nothing noticibly unusual after the first hit. Will do 2-2 as said before when I have more than 2 hours of play time.
Would appreciate some 2-3 screenshots of people squading wulord (BB or no BB don't care) and of course general def stats on tank would be great as well.

Well, I didn't take screenies (too focused on not wiping), but
I did Wurlord 2-2 with a lvl100 claw BM (HA, daemon, not 5APS) and a cleric last night, and outside BB i was getting regularly hit for 6-10k.....no crits. there was a low shot or two, about 2,6k, but the others were in that range, average probably around 7,5k

The BM had just under 6k HP, and was getting hit for 1/3-1/2 of her HP, so 2-3k INSIDE BB, with a few random bigger hits...on a lvl 100 in BB. When bb went down, she got oneshotted a few times. I dunno what her stats were (36-24-36? XP), but it was probably pretty average for a 10x BM (no rank gear)

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Sereneai - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Well, I didn't take screenies (too focused on not wiping), but
I did Wurlord 2-2 with a lvl100 claw BM (HA, daemon, not 5APS) and a cleric last night, and outside BB i was getting regularly hit for 6-10k.....no crits. there was a low shot or two, about 2,6k, but the others were in that range, average probably around 7,5k

The BM had just under 6k HP, and was getting hit for 1/3-1/2 of her HP, so 2-3k INSIDE BB, with a few random bigger hits...on a lvl 100 in BB. When bb went down, she got oneshotted a few times. I dunno what her stats were (36-24-36? XP), but it was probably pretty average for a 10x BM (no rank gear)

Hmm... maybe I should stop cancelling/resisting all of Wur's attacks so I can see what he hits me for on my BM o.o I wants an opinion on this thread too! b:sad

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Sereneai - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The BM had just under 6k HP, and was getting hit for 1/3-1/2 of her HP, so 2-3k INSIDE BB, with a few random bigger hits...on a lvl 100 in BB. When bb went down, she got oneshotted a few times. I dunno what her stats were (36-24-36? XP), but it was probably pretty average for a 10x BM (no rank gear)

Honestly 6k is pretty low HP for a lvl 100 BM. It wouldn't surprise me if she had lousy defenses as well which explains the damage.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Sereneai - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Well, I didn't take screenies (too focused on not wiping), but
I did Wurlord 2-2 with a lvl100 claw BM (HA, daemon, not 5APS) and a cleric last night, and outside BB i was getting regularly hit for 6-10k.....no crits. there was a low shot or two, about 2,6k, but the others were in that range, average probably around 7,5k

The BM had just under 6k HP, and was getting hit for 1/3-1/2 of her HP, so 2-3k INSIDE BB, with a few random bigger hits...on a lvl 100 in BB. When bb went down, she got oneshotted a few times. I dunno what her stats were (36-24-36? XP), but it was probably pretty average for a 10x BM (no rank gear)

1/3 to 1/2 the HP of a 6k HP BM, so 2k to 3k hits inside BB


Yea, that sounds about what he should be hitting for.

Xarathox - Dreamweaver

Just finished BH 3-3 (seriously? that's like the 6th one this week). Went with a 5.0 BM/Sin/Archer, then lil ole me and a wiz and cleric.

5.0's had +10 or higher gears. Timed how long it took us to kill DC once we got to him: 63 seconds. If there is a change, it sure as **** isn't geared towards those types of squads.

Jenovadeath - Lost City

b:surrender I hadn't realy done any TT for months as I just recently started playing again so Im not exactly sure what had been changed previously but I went to run 3-1 today with a few guildmates to regear someone in our squad. We were doing the boss that drops beast skins as we'd done all the other bosses just like I normally used to with my veno tanking with a herc multiboxing with 2 computers.

Well when It came time to do him I did like normal (for how it used to be) waited for him to get near the wall and use the middle boss for the buffs throughout the fight. Well needless to say we had him down to about 3/4s his hp after bout a minute as none of us are 5.0 aps nirvana with a full set +10 but for my barb I got about 16k hp and am sage. Well after the herc died I used my barb to tank to regain control of the situation but now that boss apparently has random aggro and stuns as well and seals I didn't notice him seal me but he did it to the cleric as she was trying to avoid dying in the oncoming prty wipe.

Just wondering if thats typical of that boss now +he was hitting me for about 3k+ in tiger form and I was charmed as well with a the lvl90 cleric using blue bubble seeing as how he had a random aggro now. It was never like this before but if a lvl 94 sage tank built barb cant tank it with 16k hp and a charm somethings pretty wrong. Even someone in the sqaud said he seemed to be pissed off for some reason and was harder than normal.

Just curious if theres any official Gms that know anything about the patches weve been recieving as of late instead of just the bland descriptions we get of them such as minor localizations and so on and so fourth.b:surrender srry my knowledge is limited on to whats changed within HH as to the last 6 months or so but as I said all the other bosses other than this one were just as they had been herc was able to tank fine no problem just not the one that drops the beast armors. Same with the 2-3 I ran a few weeks ago nothing seemed as it had changed everything was still exactly the same with all those bosses as well Just curious though if a squad of 90+ most of which was in full HH90's cant run this for the mats that are for HH90 who can now?

b:shutupb:bye

YouriNishi - Raging Tide

Jenovadeath - Lost City wrote: »

Well when It came time to do him I did like normal (for how it used to be) waited for him to get near the wall and use the middle boss for the buffs throughout the fight. Well needless to say we had him down to about 3/4s his hp after bout a minute as none of us are 5.0 aps nirvana with a full set +10 but for my barb I got about 16k hp and am sage. Well after the herc died I used my barb to tank to regain control of the situation but now that boss apparently has random aggro and stuns as well and seals I didn't notice him seal me but he did it to the cleric as she was trying to avoid dying in the oncoming prty wipe.

Just wondering if thats typical of that boss now +he was hitting me for about 3k+ in tiger form and I was charmed as well with a the lvl90 cleric using blue bubble seeing as how he had a random aggro now. It was never like this before but if a lvl 94 sage tank built barb cant tank it with 16k hp and a charm somethings pretty wrong. Even someone in the sqaud said he seemed to be pissed off for some reason and was harder than normal.

Just curious if theres any official Gms that know anything about the patches weve been recieving as of late instead of just the bland descriptions we get of them such as minor localizations and so on and so fourth.b:surrender srry my knowledge is limited on to whats changed within HH as to the last 6 months or so but as I said all the other bosses other than this one were just as they had been herc was able to tank fine no problem just not the one that drops the beast armors. Same with the 2-3 I ran a few weeks ago nothing seemed as it had changed everything was still exactly the same with all those bosses as well Just curious though if a squad of 90+ most of which was in full HH90's cant run this for the mats that are for HH90 who can now?

b:shutupb:bye

Part in Bold was changed a few months back b:surrender

Link to the GM post is a few pages back

Jenovadeath - Lost City

YouriNishi - Raging Tide wrote: »

Changed a few months back b:surrender

Link to the GM post is a few pages back

b:shocked why only that one boss though lol every other boss in the instance was exactly the same as it was 6 months ago my 92 herc tanks them all fine but why **** with just one boss and I'm realy not crappily geared granted I don't have the best gear in the game I have at least full HH90 set gold wrists lunar cape eat drink and be marry HH90 gold axes and a warsoul helm

lol srry I just don't get their thinking on that is all only changing one boss and just making it dam near impossible for an average geared person to do then again I don't understand why a multimillion dollar company would let teenagers be even the least bit responsible for my product whoever they got doing things now is running this game into the ground faster than ever. Not saying its dead but lets see where it is in a year from now lol.

I_Love_Pets - Heavens Tear

Sangodoc wrote: »

That is true, but only if your premise is true. However, I have never even heard anyone claim that your premise is true before, let alone seen any good objective evidence for it.

Care to post some? Good objective (not anecdotal) evidence is far more convincing than posting in big red letters.

A comparison where you have the exact same gear and buffs, with being in a squad or not being the only variable, and show a full list of the damage from 20+ hits, along with a comparison of the averages and standard deviations for both situations would be ideal.

I feel obligated to reply to this post out of the fact my AA veno rank8 with 8K phy def(focform sage) 7.6K hp 10K ele res (no buffs) being killed by soulbanishers AoE in TT1-3 with a 10K hit care to explaine that one since I have soloed him in my TT90 green<== notice green gear with less trouble then that with no buffs then with my veno in rank8 with a full set of buffs and still being kills after charm ticking as well with 10K+ hp 10K+ phy def in fox form and over 12K ele res with a full set of buffs. Not to mention I have done the dam boss with out a cleric since my low 90's. So um yea... that doesnt make a lot of sense either then does it. If you want when the DC problem stops I can go on HT again and go into squad mode an get you a SS of it if you are that dense.

It isnt that the fact that TT cant be changed with out notice because it can be read TOS. They do not have to post any information on changes they choose to. As to that I know TT has been getting oddly "harder" over time even after the update to it but bleh.

Example after the TT3-1 went to nuts node I had found a way to solo him on my veno mind you it isnt cost effective but I had done it check the dungeons and tactics for it. Then the week after they made him "normal" again they changed his extreme poison skill so that it stacks now higher then normal my hurc being hit like normal and fluxing as expected then the stacking starts like mad and hurc goes squish fast as hell with a 1.5K then 4K then 8K hit (not a single debuff other then the stack extreme was used) I had been watching his chat for his other attacks this is how I know that.

This all aside I garentee you they are making TT harder I have been playing since otc 08 my form join date lists the 09 of jan since its when I first decided to change my avatar if you check for posts made by zionwarrior you will find them dating back to 08 that being when i first decided to get on forums.

I am an experienced player I have seen the changed first hand I accept them but I mean changing the TT1-3 with out that being listed IS wack how can you expect a squad of
lvl80's to do that if a rank8 veno with my gear and stats gets wiped.

That being just wrong. I mean hell I solo the wurlord in TT2-3 squad mode on my veno it never was impoosisble with my hurc which had blessing till the update sure it was always touch an go but hurc was not EVER 1 shoted with a 8K hit fully buffed with blessing of the pack.

I know its getting harder but the reasons I want to know is why?
What good comes of it if you designate a dungeon a specifed lvl and yet it takes a rank8 squad to do them with charms pots and apoc. Other then making money there is no reason for it that being what I see.

MasterofIce - Dreamweaver

I_Love_Pets - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I feel obligated to reply to this post out of the fact my AA veno rank8 with 8K phy def(focform sage) 7.6K hp 10K ele res (no buffs) being killed by soulbanishers AoE in TT1-3 with a 10K hit care to explaine that one since I have soloed him in my TT90 green<== notice green gear with less trouble then that with no buffs then with my veno in rank8 with a full set of buffs and still being kills after charm ticking as well with 10K+ hp 10K+ phy def in fox form and over 12K ele res with a full set of buffs. Not to mention I have done the dam boss with out a cleric since my low 90's. So um yea... that doesnt make a lot of sense either then does it. If you want when the DC problem stops I can go on HT again and go into squad mode an get you a SS of it if you are that dense.

It isnt that the fact that TT cant be changed with out notice because it can be read TOS. They do not have to post any information on changes they choose to. As to that I know TT has been getting oddly "harder" over time even after the update to it but bleh.

Example after the TT3-1 went to nuts node I had found a way to solo him on my veno mind you it isnt cost effective but I had done it check the dungeons and tactics for it. Then the week after they made him "normal" again they changed his extreme poison skill so that it stacks now higher then normal my hurc being hit like normal and fluxing as expected then the stacking starts like mad and hurc goes squish fast as hell with a 1.5K then 4K then 8K hit (not a single debuff other then the stack extreme was used) I had been watching his chat for his other attacks this is how I know that.

This all aside I garentee you they are making TT harder I have been playing since otc 08 my form join date lists the 09 of jan since its when I first decided to change my avatar if you check for posts made by zionwarrior you will find them dating back to 08 that being when i first decided to get on forums.

I am an experienced player I have seen the changed first hand I accept them but I mean changing the TT1-3 with out that being listed IS wack how can you expect a squad of
lvl80's to do that if a rank8 veno with my gear and stats gets wiped.

That being just wrong. I mean hell I solo the wurlord in TT2-3 squad mode on my veno it never was impoosisble with my hurc which had blessing till the update sure it was always touch an go but hurc was not EVER 1 shoted with a 8K hit fully buffed with blessing of the pack.

I know its getting harder but the reasons I want to know is why?
What good comes of it if you designate a dungeon a specifed lvl and yet it takes a rank8 squad to do them with charms pots and apoc. Other then making money there is no reason for it that being what I see.

Reminds me of my sin getting a 6.7k hit while being in bb at Drummer 1-3.

-> Max Magic attack of Drummer is about 14k and i have 60% def @ lvl97
I ask myself now how any class should survive such hits in lvl80. Not to speak about that that kind of damage spike is way too high like it should be...