Tweaked TT Bosses?

Xarathox - Dreamweaver

SoulRequiem - Sanctuary wrote: »

Oh well too bad

I'll run myself some 2-3s this weekend I'll see if something as changed(And eventually screen it).
Also seems like most user mentioned Soulbanisher in 1-3?,I always thought Lord of Percussions was much worse(Apart from the SB's aoe),but oh well I've never been a big fan of 1-3 anyway lol.

Yeah drum has always been the hard hitter in 1-3, due to his aoe/phys attack combo he pulls off at every turn.

Mitachi - Dreamweaver

i dont see where i insulted you, i just told you how you are making yourselves sound? i spoke in a nice manner to you so whats your problem? and like i said, you dont want people's opinions where they say nothing has changed... some people have told you nicely it hasnt changed others in a mean way, yet you get angry because you believe your opinion is the only one that counts in favor, anyone who speaks against you, you insult them, thats not a real nice way to get people to see your point of view, like ive said you probally experienced the lowest hits from the bosses up until now, i just did a 2-3, bm was one shotted without magic marrow, with magic marrow he survived just... i dont believe i am being rude im stating how it is...

secretsurprise

"the mind set of "NO, I AM RIGHT, YOU ARE WRONG! YOU ARE NOOB SO DIE IN A CORNER" " thats what u said, maybe i understand that wrong but hey in this thread this seems to be normal, its easy in that way

and no not just my opinion count thats wrong, u completely understand me wrong... i see that ppl that give there opinion in normal way about its nothing change and its ok for me that they have their opinion, and maybe they have right for themselve, its ok. the thing is i think there is anything what happend not to all, im not a programmer, so i cant explain how that can be, i just know that i know what happend to me and i see im not alone with it, i said sometimes maybe its different things together what make some ppl count that and others not. I just see it dont make a sence that nothing changed but i have that problem when i have better gear and higher lvl than the time i was there before.

im not bad in that way but true im angry now, im angry cause if some ppl say something and others have another opinion that not all together can talk about it in normal way, no there are ppl here that started again and again the same argue and that not in a nice way, after they couldnt get their point so that the others (mean us) say, u have right, we are wrong exuse me to him/them that they just start to insult... and that just cause we have a different opinion, we can accept that others have another one, all what we want is others do the same with ours. in that way ppl can talk about different opinions not in that stupid way here... its just sad what happend here cause of things thats not worth it. normal argue about it is worth it, it just runned the other way cause of that ppl.

im not rlly the best in it to say let them talk, in start for sure not, later im sad about them, like i said lots of time, i dont say that just for fun, i mean it, same is i rlly laugh about that lil narrowmind of them its a part of both and i mean both

what make me rlly sad is this thread and any start to discuss in a normal way here is gone, there no way anymore and thats why im so much angry, im just not good in it to give that "feelings" out in a better way, so i need to live with it that ppl understand me wrong on that time... but i rlly didnt started it

its true im not good in english especially grammar, im still learning it but im out of school, im not that young anymore so its not that easy, i learn it by doing but its not my mother language and its already enough to play the game so im much better in it as some other ppl that dont can it so far... but that dont mean im a better human maybe just a bit better in play and that just cause i understand more of it but im not perfect, im not pro and i dont try to be it... thats useless for me.. for me the game is to have fun... and the thing is about this theme here... its not so much fun if i die again and again in low instances just cause there is something what i recognise and why ever others dont.

Larkray - Dreamweaver

SoulRequiem - Sanctuary wrote: »

Oh well too bad

I'll run myself some 2-3s this weekend I'll see if something as changed(And eventually screen it).
Also seems like most users mentioned Soulbanisher in 1-3?,I always thought Lord of Percussions was much worse(Apart from the SB's aoe),but oh well I've never been a big fan of 1-3 anyway lol.

(As for personal experience on my BM with around 14k p.def and 2,5k m.def(I known its low^^),with 7k hp buffed and"only 2 aps base / 2,86 sparked,Wurlord(2-3),hits me on average 1k-2,3k and up to 5k on his m.attack(Under BB effect).Still I've tanked him several ways with a combo of Shadowless Kick / Triple Spark to resist his m.attack while barb keep spam frighten).

What others like rawrgh have said is they want old damage number proofs, which, unless you're an abnormal screenshot shutter bug who screenshots anything just incase somewhere, weeks down the road, it gets changed for the worse. So going in now to test is useless.

Mitachi - Dreamweaver

secretsurprise wrote: »

"the mind set of "NO, I AM RIGHT, YOU ARE WRONG! YOU ARE NOOB SO DIE IN A CORNER" " thats what u said, maybe i understand that wrong but hey in this thread this seems to be normal, its easy in that way

and no not just my opinion count thats wrong, u completely understand me wrong... i see that ppl that give there opinion in normal way about its nothing change and its ok for me that they have their opinion, and maybe they have right for themselve, its ok. the thing is i think there is anything what happend not to all, im not a programmer, so i cant explain how that can be, i just know that i know what happend to me and i see im not alone with it, i said sometimes maybe its different things together what make some ppl count that and others not. I just see it dont make a sence that nothing changed but i have that problem when i have better gear and higher lvl than the time i was there before.

im not bad in that way but true im angry now, im angry cause if some ppl say something and others have another opinion that not all together can talk about it in normal way, no there are ppl here that started again and again the same argue and that not in a nice way, after they couldnt get their point so that the others (mean us) say, u have right, we are wrong exuse me to him/them that they just start to insult... and that just cause we have a different opinion, we can accept that others have another one, all what we want is others do the same with ours. in that way ppl can talk about different opinions not in that stupid way here... its just sad what happend here cause of things thats not worth it. normal argue about it is worth it, it just runned the other way cause of that ppl.

im not rlly the best in it to say let them talk, in start for sure not, later im sad about them, like i said lots of time, i dont say that just for fun, i mean it, same is i rlly laugh about that lil narrowmind of them its a part of both and i mean both

what make me rlly sad is this thread and any start to discuss in a normal way here is gone, there no way anymore and thats why im so much angry, im just not good in it to give that "feelings" out in a better way, so i need to live with it that ppl understand me wrong on that time... but i rlly didnt started it

its true im not good in english especially grammar, im still learning it but im out of school, im not that young anymore so its not that easy, i learn it by doing but its not my mother language and its already enough to play the game so im much better in it as some other ppl that dont can it so far... but that dont mean im a better human maybe just a bit better in play and that just cause i understand more of it but im not perfect, im not pro and i dont try to be it... thats useless for me.. for me the game is to have fun... and the thing is about this theme here... its not so much fun if i die again and again in low instances just cause there is something what i recognise and why ever others dont.

i wasnt telling you to die in a corner lol, i meant it as your way of talking to other people implied it, anyway i dont mind your language i text like that to friends...
Yes people cant discuss it normally anymore, we are still clinging to a game on life support which fustrates other players so they nerdrage on forums to other people, lately you have to provide screenies and evidence so that people will talk nicer to you thats how it works now... sad but yeah

secretsurprise

No i didnt said to anybody that should die in a corner... but if they called us noobs i recalled them.. not in the same way... they did it without any reason i just say what i think about the theme and they insult for nothing and the word noob... well it have some definitions and if a guy call me noob without know me and without a reason so i recall it cause i think it make him then to the real noob... it was not in that way a reinsult but ok im sure ppl will get it so.

i told one time to one of them he should learn to read, ok in my text was lots of sarkasm right but i said that cause he said before im alone with my opinion so i need to think he didnt read the others... and what did he then? he start insult me for bad english, lol how poor.

but ok, cause with u is now a normal person here so far i see, i could explain it so far my english let me, maybe if they have a bit more in there head as it was showed till now, maybe maybe they get more of it as before... if not... it dont matter...

Mitachi - Dreamweaver

alright explain everything in detail

secretsurprise

no need so far i see and im not happy enough for it after all that...

MasterofIce - Dreamweaver

Larkray - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Twilight Temple 2-3 Fatiliqua: Null. Pre Genesis expansion, he would hit me about 1,100 on average a hit. Now he hits for over 1,600 on average hits. He is a purely physical attack boss. I'm a Heavy armored Venomancer (over 25k physical defense when fully buffed now.) Whereas Before genesis, my physical defense peaked just over 21k buffed. How can you explain the increase in damage, when my defense has clearly gotten better? And people like you edan, you're the ones without proof. You've not showed a single point of situation for yourself.

After a discussion in my faction chat, we'd began noticing that it was after a certain trigger effect that there was a large damage spike for other bosses that were not purely physical. (Soul Banisher and Wurlord casting, General Feng debuffing HP, Colluseast aoe sealing for examples) It seems like it could be a side effect of a coding fail from the Seeker trigger skill chains? That's not something that would show up on PWdatabase at all, since the straight statistics have not changed.

Mitachi here is one of the best explainations so far.

I have to say Endatiel tried 1-3 Banisher solo today (squad mode) no changes at all. But this is one of our most obvious points now. SOLO the Squad bosses -> they are easy
Go with Squad to them -> they hitting hard like hell.

Edit:

Will try doing the bosses again with Endathiel & squad, checking if they hit harder then.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Larkray - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Twilight Temple 2-3 Fatiliqua: Null. Pre Genesis expansion, he would hit me about 1,100 on average a hit. Now he hits for over 1,600 on average hits. He is a purely physical attack boss. I'm a Heavy armored Venomancer (over 25k physical defense when fully buffed now.) Whereas Before genesis, my physical defense peaked just over 21k buffed. How can you explain the increase in damage, when my defense has clearly gotten better? And people like you edan, you're the ones without proof. You've not showed a single point of situation for yourself.

After a discussion in my faction chat, we'd began noticing that it was after a certain trigger effect that there was a large damage spike for other bosses that were not purely physical. (Soul Banisher and Wurlord casting, General Feng debuffing HP, Colluseast aoe sealing for examples) It seems like it could be a side effect of a coding fail from the Seeker trigger skill chains? That's not something that would show up on PWdatabase at all, since the straight statistics have not changed.

You're basing the average damage on 1 run?

Fataliqua: Null

Physical Attack

3423 - 10269

Look at the damage range... Unless you have fought the boss 100 times as a decent sample size, you can't argue that it is different because it is most likely it happened just by chance.

I can go in there and get hit for 1k 1.5k 1.2k 1.8k 800 2.3k with large damage fluctuations. I highly doubt you added up 500 consecutive hits at the top of your head and did the actual math to calculate the average damage 1 month ago, and did it again today. If you did, I will gladly accept your screenshots.

Mitachi - Dreamweaver

hmmm i see, i will admit that they actually do hit harder the more people you have in squad, maybe pwi did that to make it more challenging for the squad? idk what to make of this anymore, i think the bosses are like women. they go on their monthly period and when they on their period they hurt like hell, and when they feeling better they hit softer, cause i sometimes do wonder why i have hard times with bosses and sometimes not...

MasterofIce - Dreamweaver

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

You're basing the average damage on 1 run?

Fataliqua: Null



Look at the damage range... Unless you have fought the boss 100 times as a decent sample size, you can't argue that it is different because it is most likely it happened just by chance.

I can go in there and get hit for 1k 1.5k 1.2k 1.8k 800 2.3k with large damage fluctuations. I highly doubt you added up 500 consecutive hits at the top of your head and did the actual math to calculate the average damage 1 month ago, and did it again today. If you did, I will gladly accept your screenshots.

Already said this is just an example. When you got 1-hitted 9 of 10 times at a boss you were able to tank before then its not just bad luck and damage range... like i said, we will test 1-3 Banisher soon with squad, the guy who will tank was doing him easily today when soloing him (in squad mode). So if he will be ***** then, you can say whatever you want, its NOT okay.

Larkray - Dreamweaver

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

You're basing the average damage on 1 run?

Fataliqua: Null



Look at the damage range... Unless you have fought the boss 100 times as a decent sample size, you can't argue that it is different because it is most likely it happened just by chance.

I can go in there and get hit for 1k 1.5k 1.2k 1.8k 800 2.3k with large damage fluctuations. I highly doubt you added up 500 consecutive hits at the top of your head and did the actual math to calculate the average damage 1 month ago, and did it again today. If you did, I will gladly accept your screenshots.

For starters, Read the very first line that states what type of enemy that Fatiliqua is. It states he is a ranged type enemy, when he is clearly a pure physical type. It also states he's only got 2 server drops which proves even more how reliable PWdatabase is for accuracy.... anywho...

As was stated before, what reason would possess me to take random screenshots of damage for the microscopic possibility that they would increase the damage in the future, and I would need screenshot proof of said damage, so I could compare those numbers to the damage today? Also note that the people who are stating there's no change absolutely whatsoever, were in squad mode yes but SOLOING the bosses. It could be an AI tweak that detects when someone is Soloing the instance to make the bosses drops/damage/ability weaker than when that same boss is attacked by a squad.

But fine. You want proof? Read the numbers and calculations below and call me a liar now.

And for the damage from fatas$ first boss in 2-3, with 25k physical defense i've got 86% reduction from enemies. The straight reduction along with various debuffs such as threaten (pet skill) reduces another 25% + Wind shield from genie to absorb another 12% equates to about 904 damage. Now considering the fact he's a level 150 boss his damage is a bit higher than a normal white mob attacking me with his damage range

The math:
10269 (his max phys) *86% (phys def reduc) = 8831 (reduction)
10269 (his max) - 8831 = 1438 (straight damage w/o debuffs)
1438 - 25% damage (threaten skill) = 1078.5 (1079 for sake of even math)
1079 - 12% damage (wind shield dex genie) = 949.52 (950 for sake of math)
Level 150 boss adds 10% more damage for level range = 1045

Final damage = 1045

That math PROVES his maximum hits on me used to be about 1045 (i stated 1100 from memory) He now hits for 1600-1900 per attack. Thats a change of 60-90% increase from previously

Side note: once you've reached a certain physical defense % level your damage reduction peaks. (97% reduction is absolute peak I think which is equivalent of 52k physical defense)

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

And for the damage from fatas$ first boss in 2-3, with 25k physical defense i've got 86% reduction from enemies.

Wrong, you have 86% reduction FROM LEVEL 101 ENEMIES.


Fatalaquia isn't exactly level 101 now is he?

NiightmareXz - Harshlands

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Wrong, you have 86% reduction FROM LEVEL 101 ENEMIES.


Fatalaquia isn't exactly level 101 now is he?

He got that far without realising that? I knew that on my first character... a cleric with "a point in every stat +1 in mag so she is strong". b:sweat

Larkray - Dreamweaver

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Wrong, you have 86% reduction FROM LEVEL 101 ENEMIES.


Fatalaquia isn't exactly level 101 now is he?

Read the line where i stated a level 150 boss deals ten% more damage. I also put that into the calculations. please return to 4th grade.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Larkray - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Read the line where i stated a level 150 boss deals ten% more damage. I also put that into the calculations. please return to 4th grade.

Level 150 boss deals 49% more damage minus whatever your defense level is, not 10. b:bye

Larkray - Dreamweaver

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Level 150 boss deals 49% more damage minus whatever your defense level is, not 10. b:bye

Source? from all experiences I've had fighting bosses, it was a 10% increase.
I've given you proof and I expect the same courtesy in kind.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

That's now what I'm talking about.


I'm talking about in the character screen when you hover over your pdef it says "reduce physical damage from level 101 enemies by 86%


That doesn't affect level 150 mobs/bosses the same way.

Larkray - Dreamweaver

It degrades at a single % every 10 levels your target has above you according to an anonymous old troll. Which would break the resistance from 86% to 81%. I'll leave you to calculate damage from there.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Larkray - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Source? from all experiences I've had fighting bosses, it was a 10% increase.
I've given you proof and I expect the same courtesy in kind.

So it's not 49%, it's 75%. Sue me.

Source

I took a screenshot of the damage log of my 33K phys def (88% reduction from level 104 mobs). I took a sample size of 100 hits and the overall average damage I took was 1123.

There's no way your 25K phys def average is less than my 33K phys def average. I'm calling bull.

Larkray - Dreamweaver

Where anywhere in that picture does it state a 49% OR a 75%? The only numbers that you've got showing are damage. Which if i take into account a lvl 104 heavy armor BM with Max buffs, and phys marrow, should = the same + total of my sage fox defense+buffs+target debuffs. And your damage is what i had stated. and yet now i'm taking 1.6-1.9k damage.

Edit: In the PWpedia the 75% you state was the damage YOU do to the TARGET. Meaning YOU do 75% LESS to the target when its that high above you.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Larkray - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Where anywhere in that picture does it state a 49% OR a 75%? The only numbers that you've got showing are damage. Which if i take into account a lvl 104 heavy armor BM with Max buffs, and phys marrow, should = the same + total of my sage fox defense+buffs+target debuffs. And your damage is what i had stated. and yet now i'm taking 1.6-1.9k damage.

Read the link to my source.

The math:
10269 (his max phys) *86% (phys def reduc) = 8831 (reduction)
10269 (his max) - 8831 = 1438 (straight damage w/o debuffs)
1438 - 25% damage (threaten skill) = 1078.5 (1079 for sake of even math)
1079 - 12% damage (wind shield dex genie) = 949.52 (950 for sake of math)
Level 150 boss adds 75% more damage for level range = 1663

b:bye Now go away.

Larkray - Dreamweaver

*points to my edit*

TheDan - Sanctuary

Larkray - Dreamweaver wrote: »

*points to my edit*

PvE mobs have 0 attack and 0 defense level. It's passive level is 150. Their damage reduction and your damage reduction are equal at this point.

Larkray - Dreamweaver

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Read the link to my source.

The math:
10269 (his max phys) *86% (phys def reduc) = 8831 (reduction)
10269 (his max) - 8831 = 1438 (straight damage w/o debuffs)
1438 - 25% damage (threaten skill) = 1078.5 (1079 for sake of even math)
1079 - 12% damage (wind shield dex genie) = 949.52 (950 for sake of math)
Level 150 boss adds 75% more damage for level range = 1663

b:bye Now go away.

Nowhere in that source from top to bottom states that a lvl 150 boss deals 75% more damage, nor 49%. It only states that you do less damage to them.

Edit: Also as I've said countless times. Screenshots now are useless. They do not provide damage markers from pre-tweak. And as you also showed and what I've also said several times, The tweak seems to be centered in SQUADDED groups killing bosses. Soloing Brings up an AI change, resulting in less damage and easier kill. Thats what it seems at least.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Larkray - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Nowhere in that source from top to bottom states that a lvl 150 boss deals 75% more damage, nor 49%. It only states that you do less damage to them.

It's not specifically stated; it's implied. If a mob with passive level 150 has 0 attack and 0 defense level takes 75% less damage, it follows suit that you also take 75% more damage. The 49% was my guesstimate.

Source - As stated here, mobs have 0 attack and 0 defense level.

Larkray - Dreamweaver

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's not specifically stated; it's implied. If a mob with passive level 150 has 0 attack and 0 defense level takes 75% less damage, it follows suit that you also take 75% more damage. The 49% was my guesstimate.

Source - As stated here, mobs have 0 attack and 0 defense level.

Implications can easily be misinterpreted. My interpretation of him having 0 attack levels would be he does no more extra damage outside of his normal range at all period. meaning no armor no defense level, would be a maximum possible hit of 10269.

You're stating that hit would be near 18k damage

Oh and my pwcalc for the defense reduction that you can see.
http://pwcalc.com/0f006fc13372d370

TheDan - Sanctuary

Larkray - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Implications can easily be misinterpreted. My interpretation of him having 0 attack levels would be he does no more extra damage outside of his normal range at all period. meaning no armor no defense level, would be a maximum possible hit of 10269.

You're stating that hit would be near 18k damage

Oh and my pwcalc for the defense reduction that you can see.
http://pwcalc.com/0f006fc13372d370

My average damage taken still stands at 1123. from 100 sample size hits. As given by my screenshots.

Regardless of math, the damage range is not static, from my screenshots I took damage ranging from like 500 to almost 1900. I still don't believe you took on average 1000 damage flat with 25K phys def, when I had 33.5K and I take more.

Larkray - Dreamweaver

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

My average damage taken still stands at 1123. from 100 sample size hits. As given by my screenshots.

Regardless of math, the damage range is not static, from my screenshots I took damage ranging from like 500 to almost 1900. I still don't believe you took on average 1000 damage flat with 25K phys def, when I had 33.5K and I take more.

I've also got constant boss debuffs of 25% (armored bear with threaten) and another buff of 12% damage reduction from level 10 windshield on a dex/mag genie which i also added into my calculations, because I make sure to keep those on me at all times.