Tweaked TT Bosses?

MasterofIce - Dreamweaver

Rawrgh i give you some facts:
You are posting to state that we are noob, we dont know the game.

You are trying to make your arguments better by doing epic comments like
"If all these threads claiming that bosses were buffed were true, hell if even half of them were true, then by now all the bosses, even 1-1 bosses, would be able to one shot you the second you enter TT."

Very nice... oh and thanks Eden for epic fail comment.

Larkray - Dreamweaver

*points at last's post edit*

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

I'm posting to state that you are wrong.

I'm posting the facts, there are so many of these threads and there is no way that even 1% are correct or else TT bosses would be god mode.

MasterofIce - Dreamweaver

Ya seems you dont have other things to do as going down on ppl just because you dont experience same problems.. ( oh wow how can that be... you are just using full +12 gears, so a little tweak dont cares you a bit... )

Eden - Raging Tide

MasterofIce - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Rawrgh i give you some facts:
You are posting to state that we are noob, we dont know the game.

You are trying to make your arguments better by doing epic comments like
"If all these threads claiming that bosses were buffed were true, hell if even half of them were true, then by now all the bosses, even 1-1 bosses, would be able to one shot you the second you enter TT."

Very nice... oh and thanks Eden for epic fail comment.

i was agreeing with u b:cry

the game is so hard nowadays damn mobs 100 levels below one shot me b:sad

gms fix it!

Larkray - Dreamweaver

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

I'm posting to state that you are wrong.

How are we wrong? The bosses are all of a sudden doing more and different things for MULTIPLE people? Multiple instances, multiple account witnesses, multiple situations. ALL of them who have posted except for you and one other have noticed a big change. So Something has to be up, regardless of what it is. Maybe it is just a server-side AI tweak which would NOT involve a patch. Maybe bosses detect soloists in squad mode and react in kind to a solo mode AI (same HP) The main thing is. YOU DO NOT SEE WHAT WE'RE SEEING. So you cannot claim we're wrong.

MasterofIce - Dreamweaver

... very funny Eden... go play with your baby toys

Eden - Raging Tide

Larkray - Dreamweaver wrote: »

How are we wrong? The bosses are all of a sudden doing more and different things for MULTIPLE people? Multiple instances, multiple account witnesses, multiple situations. ALL of them who have posted except for you and one other have noticed a big change. So Something has to be up, regardless of what it is. Maybe it is just a server-side AI tweak which would NOT involve a patch. Maybe bosses detect soloists in squad mode and react in kind to a solo mode AI (same HP) The main thing is. YOU DO NOT SEE WHAT WE'RE SEEING. So you cannot claim we're wrong.

i see the ghost of spoons when i go in hh

a lot of other ppl in rt have too

gms really need to step up and explain this as approx 679 ppl can confirm pls dont step in with ur "facts" rawrgh

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

MasterofIce - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ya seems you dont have other things to do as going down on ppl

I fail to see how that is relevant.

just because you dont experience same problems.. ( oh wow how can that be... you are just using full +12 gears, so a little tweak dont cares you a bit... )

Hahahaha,


trust me, I'm not using full +12, not even full +10, not even full +6 lol.

MasterofIce - Dreamweaver

BTW, I just ran a TT3-3, I solo'd a 3-2, I solo'd 1-3 and 2-2 (need my BMs TT80 weps) and I can assure you that nothing has changed.

Ya sure, SOLO 3-2 and you have just "low-refined" gear... stop lieing.

KageYingZi - Heavens Tear

Anyone has hard evidence they actually hit harder or are more difficult?

Saying "They SEEM to do more damage" or "Ohhh,my charm ticks more/faster/earlier" doesn't constitute as hard evidence.

Prove it.

Until proven,the bosses shall be assumed to have not been changed since there's no hard evidence they have been changed.

Technically,I believe a barb charmed and buffed with average gear can still tank.
Not saying that Rawrgh is telling the truth or not since I've never been on RT or seen his gear.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

I'm going to solo the bh89 bosses tmw.

If they 2 shot me, then something is definitely up.

Mitachi - Dreamweaver

MasterofIce - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ya sure, SOLO 3-2 and you have just "low-refined" gear... stop lieing.

-.-

just cause he solo's tt's doesn't mean he has high refines.
Sage BP + demon spark + 5aps = always full health, thats the maths.

Also, i haven't noticed changes. I do sometimes get the bosses in bad moods which makes them a bit harder, but sometimes its just too easy... i guess its to do with the squad layout, thats my only conclusion...b:surrender

truekossy

Been in 59, tanked the mobs without BB, saw no change in damage than what I'm used to. Same with the bosses in the TTs mentioned.

Like Rawrgh said, if even half the times these threads got made happened to even be 50% accurate, these bosses would be 1-shotting people the instant they step inside an instance.

secretsurprise

God the hell.. i cant believe what a lil thread (at start) do with ppl some time... All we want to know if we are alone with it or if there other ppl have same problems... And not again and again that one full aps barb think we are wrong... im not sure what u try to compensate, i have just an idea of it... but WE KNOW IT NOW, ur opinion is... we are wrong... good and now ****... ur opinion is done, thats it, let others say if they have problems or not.

Oh and true... i did a fb 69 yesterday too... i was 97 cleric to heal the tank and pury him. After it was done, a friend asked me if i think its harder now... I just said, im not sure about it, our barb was good for sure, not best gear and just lvl 81. We didnt got a wipe, just nobody died... but i said im not sure whats happend if a lvl conform cleric is there to heal and pury. As i was that lvl i remember it was sometimes not easy cause aoe hits hard on a mag class and then be fast enough for heals and pury while get high hits... thats rlly not a easy thing and i didnt had that channeling like i have now on my bh 69 lvl the time ago... Now i have that much better gear + lots of channeling. I just ask me if i dont have that.... maybe we get wiped. I just didnt noticed so much dmg that time but i noticed for sure that the barb got lots of times, and rlly lots of times that debuffs from pole and nob... Seems that a lvl 80 + cleric alone is not anymore enough to do it unless she did a good pay on lots of channeling and very good gear and thats rlly expensive then...

Its just strange we did so much instances in our way to lvl up to our lvl now and so much changes in gear to get better and better one... and now we can say we are high lvls with good gear so far, not best but ok and if we now help our lower friends to do some instances we just see there is so much dmg on us and so we ask why...

There must something happend, i cant explain it. The thing is i would think normal that other ppl start complaining earlier than us cause we dont have so much time for it so we need some days maybe weeks (look how long we have now the earthguards on) but there is no complaining about it and so i wonder, but same time i see there must be anything wrong, why i have for some instances like 40 lvl more now and much better gear and get dmg that im dying or nearly dying and the time as i was that lower and my gear too i could do it more easy like now? Thats just strange. All together just confuse me...

Im not in the way to say i cant tt anymore, but i ask me if i have again a lvl for bh 69 or tt 2-1~2-3... what will be happend on my new char then by that dmg there? Is it still possible to do it or do all that squads that need any bh lvl xy or do tt x-x now a high lvl to help? I never needed a high lvl for that (i see so often shouts like, lf high lvl to do fb 19.. or something like that, thats the noobs... so sry), so i think maybe im not that pro but im a good player so far.

Again Wurlord things... as i said much dmg... again... grml i hate it... i did him in different tt lots of times and it was always ok... now it was some time ago as i did any tt and i want to do one now, my gear is better, my lvl is higher and i die in easy way? why i get that dmg... i never said he dont hit hard.... its for sure true he do, but it was not just bad luck this time... it was damn more, we had some wipes and i was happy to have a mystic in squad for resurect my cleric... just believe me... Some weeks ago there was no way to stay up so often in short times from death on the place u died... cause that scrolls have high cooldown... the mystic resurrect works better for that.... so it was not bad luck for one time... it was so much times and not in that way oh its a bad day or cursed day to do tt... its holding on...

So, i have rlly enough of that explainings that u get the info i dont talk about a bit bad luck, or i did it to less or im low or whatever u thought... Thats all i want so far.


And rawrgh, again we got ur opinion its enough, u can stop it now for sure, u have urs and we have ours, all we want to know if there are more ppl or not... and so far i see we are rlly not allone...so just keep ur mouth now... pff... and ya im mad if u want to know it... player or better people like u do that... but no worries not much enough, just a bit so far, u cant rlly hurt me with ur stupid opinion... i think u are a guy that need to compensate anything ( i read ur sig, thats the thing what make my opinion... and now u can feel bad cause of me... it dont matter), all i can say at last point... u cant compensate anything in that way but thats ur own thing not mine but for sure u cant do it in the way to write again and again ur lil head opinion here...

Prowler - Heavens Tear

I am consistently seeing higher damage numbers from magic attackers compared to 1 month ago, in FF, on my BM, with absolutely no change in gear, and with the exact same buffs (same characters in squad). I do not notice any change in damage from physical attacks, but that may well be because the numbers themselves are pretty small for physical attack, i.e. 80 to 120 damage per hit.

Something has changed, but not significantly enough to really be cause for concern, I feel.

Xarathox - Dreamweaver

I can certainly attest that Snakefist hasn't changed in difficulty. He's still timed and not wtf pwning right from the start, Cannon is also still easy.

TheDan - Sanctuary

I just facepalmed through 3 pages of arguing over some trivial garbage (facts).

Sorry, but unless anyone can provide statistical evidence that the difficulty was increased, all these assertions are null.

I've ran every single TT this week because I was remaking TT99 gold fists for my Nirvana G15s; ranging from 1-1 to 3-3. I did it all uncharmed and probably only died once at steelation. Care to explain how the difficulty was increased?

I've probably run a dozen full 3-3s as well since it was BH3-3 all week and I needed it on different characters. It was more worthwhile to just do full runs, but still didn't notice any chances.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Wow, I can't believe any of you don't believe that it's all been tweaked and has become way more difficult. I did 1000 runs earlier and got 5% less drops overall. There's your proof. b:chuckle

secretsurprise

thanks all so far, its not that we just search for ppl that say, ya u are right its tweaked... If u rlly find anything in a game and u think its wrong first what u do u ask friends and then maybe the support/GM's. Our Problem is we did that and at least Support said we should do a forum post, so we just did that. Its not our fun in that way to start a post like that, we want just rlly to know whats happend. So far i see till now, some ppl say, ya it is, others say no, nothing changed.

In my opinion its rlly tweaked. I dont know for what reason it is so, im just sure about it. But i dont think all that ppl that say there is nothing are wrong in that way. Maybe its a part of different things that we count it more than others. Things like server, like the way to the server from our home, what mean lag and maybe still cause we dont have the gear to look away from that change. We worked hard to get good gear so far but if we get much more dmg we die and others that have better gear say ok i got bit more dmg and they dont die.

Ok i know some of u say no i didnt got more dmg, but im still on my opinion. And same time i let u all ur opinion.

So if there more ppl that have any opinion, just write it down here, all is welcome.

Man - Raging Tide

The last few times we fought Steelation he spent a ridiculous amount of time with increased attack speed. But its random, so i have chalked it up to randomness. I'll do more runs later and tell you if i notice anything out of the ordinary.

sangodoc

avenger665 wrote: »

Hi, i got the feeling, since last update all TT bosses are way harder now.

In TT 2-3 our 101 BM almost got killed all the time by Wurlord, even after Boss was slowed and Mystic debuffed, and in BB.

Well, sELedit doesn't appear to be able to open the latest data files, but comparing the v402 (Rising Tide expansion) data to the current data on PWDB for General Wurlord: Null I see no changes in the magic attack damage range (5937 - 17812) or the physical attack damage range (4948 - 14844), which as Rawrgh has pointed out is a "LARGE RANGE OF ATTACK DAMAGE". In other words, simply due to chance you can have some very easy or very hard runs with him.

Keeping that in mind, I should also note that correlation does not equal causation. This means that just because you see A then B, does not mean that A caused B. You may have some bad TT runs after a patch, but it is faulty reasoning to assume that the patch necessarily caused it (note the emphasis on "necessarily" there). Bad runs can happen any time, that's simply statistics; it doesn't require that there be any other explanation for it other than chance.

Furthermore, anecdotal evidence, i.e. a few self-selected people agreeing, is worthless. People who have seen no difference are more likely to ignore this thread or not bother putting in their comments about seeing no difference than anyone who has had a bad run and wants there to be an easily understandable (even if wrong) explanation. Besides that, a number of people who haven't seen any change have chimed in, so ignoring them is simply cherry picking your data. If you're going to argue based on vague and unreliable memories and things that could simply be chance, I simply can't accept that as a replacement for good objective evidence.

And what is your sample size for this? Two or three runs? Compared to a vague memory of previous runs? With completely different squads? Small samples, compared to guesstimated numbers, and with too many other variables is hardly an appropriate test for a claim.

And what exactly would their motivation be to make such a minor change to all of the bosses named in this thread, so that only some people claim to notice a difference? The bosses weren't tweaked (no change in their data), but I can't think of any reason why they'd do a stealth tweak to make them harder anyways. The only proven time that they have done so it was announced (the Frenzy Mode patch) and it stated that it was done to cut down on farming. Arguing that they did a tiny stealth increase just seems silly to me, since there's no reason to waste development time doing that.

Really, this comes down to Occam's Razor for me, and considering that only a few people are reporting this, there is no good objective evidence to support it, and we've seen baseless claims like this over and over, the most likely explanation is that there was no tweak, it's just that sometimes people have a run of bad luck.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

The only proven time that they have done so it was announced (the Frenzy Mode patch) and it stated that it was done to cut down on farming.

Actually that wasn't announced, at least not until a few days later.


But unlike this thread, that one had dozens of players saying that bosses were changed, and it wasn't "I got hit for more damage" it was "our squad go AOE purged, stunned, and then the boss buffed himself to 5 aps, none of which he has ever done before" as well as before and after screenshots to prove it.

HeavensRage - Raging Tide

This thread is new and exciting.

sangodoc

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Actually that wasn't announced, at least not until a few days later.

Not as I recall it. It was in the patch notes. See: Patch Notes Version 390 - Released August 5, 2010

Kantorek wrote: »

Dungeons
To battle farming, boss behavior in Wraith Gate and Twilight Temple ACT III has been changed. Players will need to kill enough trash mobs or else the bosses will go into a Frenzy mode dealing more damage.

The Gold Medal from Trophy Mode of Lunar Glade can no longer be traded for Lunar Glade materials.

All Bosses in Nirvana Place will reset their aggro targets randomly.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Sangodoc wrote: »

Not as I recall it. It was in the patch notes. See: Patch Notes Version 390 - Released August 5, 2010

If I recall correctly, that was actually a week before the bosses were changed. That patch just added the quest in TT3-3 where you have to kill enough mobs.

TheDan - Sanctuary

It was announced in the patch notes, just no reason or explanation given.

Patch Version 398 - Released August 17, 2010

Twilight Temple Act III
Tweaked the Boss AI/Aggro behavior to increase the difficulty.

Ninja_Dagger - Dreamweaver

i can still solo wurlord in 2-3... he hasnt gotten any harder but i do agree with soulbanisher at least in 1-3, he seems to be hitting then wurlord?

Intimidator - Heavens Tear

Comparing my notes from January and from the last 2 days, for identical runs I do all the time, and "None" simply means "Not enough data or enough change to be certain":

* Damage changes from open-world mobs: None
* Damage changes from TT mobs: Marginal, tending to none
* Damage changes from TT bosses: (Apparently) 0 to 5% increase. (No hits at lower end of prior scale, much larger percentage of hits at upper end of scale, bell curve moved up?)
* Damage changes from FF mobs: (Apparently) 5% to 10% up cumulatively (they stack faster?)
* Damage changes from FF bosses: None

After prodding and poking around with my gear and various victim mobs, my conclusions are:
1. No, individual hits are not necessarily harder, physical or magical, with marrow or without.
2. Damage reduction effect of a given MDEF number seems to have reduced marginally (YMMV)
3. There is a statistically significant marginal change of damage logged upon my characters.

In other words, the range of damage (min to max) has not changed, or not enough to stand up and give a presentation about.

*** However, the shape of the damage curve has moved to the right by more than a tenth of the bell-shape. So, more hits at the upper end of the range, especially damage taken from DoT attacks (fire burning type mobs etc).

Is this big enough a change to be worth flagging? Not for me, but it probably impacts low-geared players. I'm mid-range in gear, people with +6 and better refines are probably not going to see the change.

Heading back to my other life now. Not going to get hooked on PWI again. :-)

MasterofIce - Dreamweaver

Found more people saying the same every day now. Like a lvl100 veno which was able to do TT with her herc and now shes hardly able to keep herc alive in spam heal.
Something is going on with tt bosses, whatever it is mostly the magic hits do always damage like crazy now and you need masses of m.def and hp to tank them now.
Banisher 1-3 is doing always very hard magic hits now, and its always double hit with a phys. hit directly after it. Thats not like he was when i needed his mat with my sin.
Now i cant even dream of doing him with my 97 sin because even in bb the damage hes doing is worlds too high.