Genie Discussion

Saeidon - Heavens Tear

I know what you mean about that, but there are a few arguments against it too.

Hypothetically speaking if genie skills could go above level 10, for example.

Wind Shield would be 56% damage reduction for 152 energy at level 50. I'm sure noone would take it as high as that, so it brings up the question, what would be the idea level for wind shield. Though I think I agree that the ideal point would be somewhere above level 10, not below, it is worth thinking about though, same for spark

Also with regards to what you said, you do still get that heavy bonus from Badge, which with 90 dex almost never fails, and the other skills are actually more spammable with high dex at level 1 than with medium dex / high mag at level 10.

I do agree with you btw, and I've left them at level 10 for now, I'm just so used to the fast recharge, that it worries me a bit. I've been pk'ing today and the skills are noticeably not there as often.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

ADROIT!
im confoozeled

i think imma acquire a 81+ genie in some time
i already have a 71+ delta/pve genie, i also use it in TW
[Holy Path, Cloud Eruption, Expel, AD, Crit-Buff
and a 71+ fail genie that wont sell until i remove the **** skills


how would you design a fresh 81/100 genie with gold gear?

only skills i really need are:
cloud eruption (since im demon)
holy path (captain obvious)


i always favored high magic points over anything, love to spam skills
how can i fit spark etc in it efficiently?

my old genie(s) doesnt fit my needs
i need something vs assasins (AD only working on noob assasins)
i need damage amplification like spark
i dont need expel or tree of protection
i need high magic-points to spam cloud eruption

short: make me a genie, stats and skills for 81/100 -D:

Adroit - Lost City

@Saidon - you're absolutely right, it is at least worth looking into lowering the skill levels of genie spark/wind shield. I guess I just had this preconceived idea that I want more effectiveness being that they already cost low energy, but I could definitely see some situations where it would be a good idea to reduce the energy cost. Especially if it worked out with the amount of vit you had on your genie.. perhaps if you wanted to be able to domain + wind shield after, and you had like 70+ vit, that 47 energy wind shield could definitely make sense being that you could domain and use wind shield almost immediately after for a better chance of surviving a gank. I do think for most situations though, I'd prefer spending that extra energy for a more effective spark/wind shield. But thanks for bringing that up, definitely an interesting idea to consider XD And ya, having lower mag is definitely noticeable, especially if you are using skills like ce. That's just where you need to draw that line, how effective you want your skills vs how often you can use them. I'd love to bump my genie up to 100dex, but I've kinda decided 90 is good enough, and that extra 15 pts in vit has been a godsend in so many situations, I think it's just going to sit as it is now

@Hex
It's kinda hard to design a genie for someone else, I can give you some of the minimums I'd always use, but it's ultimately up to you to know what you want/need on your genie. As a mage for world pvp, I couldn't imagine myself without a dex genie. You'd really want to fit fortify, badge, spark, and wind shield on it as the basic skills, and then the rest is more just filler. I think it's good practice to put either faith/domain on their as kinda an all around skill, they cost alot but give you something you can use for those really odd situations that you can't always have the perfect skill for. CE doesn't fit ideally into a dex genie, most the skills I mentioned require relatively low energy, and allow for a lower mag genie.. which doesn't work all that great with ce. It's definitely possible to fit in there, but if you REALLY like ce you might consider a high vit/mag genie instead. As far as an anti-sin skill, nothing will really guarantee a kill on them(or even an escape -.-), but skills like fortify/badge/expel/faith seem to be some of the most effective ways at surviving their first attack. As far as stats go, its usually good practice to at least put in enough vit/mag/dex for the 1pt/stat (+40 over the base) and then for a dex genie you'd want a MINIMUM of 70dex (I'd really push you to go higher than that) or a max of 100dex. 90dex seems to be where most people settle (including me), dex is high enough for effective skills, but not so much where I don't have the vit/mag to use my skills.

You asked me to design an 81+/100 genie from scratch, so I'll try.. but I wouldn't be heartbroken if you didn't use this plan exactly. I think it'd be a good idea for you to make it your own, and change it at least a little so you personalize it at least a little for yourself. Anyway.. with your constraints I'd probably do something along the lines of...

Longevity genie 81/100
1 Fortify
10 Badge
10 Spark
10 Wind Shield
10 Holy Path
1 Cloud Eruption
10 Faith

5str
64dex
47vit
62mag

with 3 4dex/4vit gears and one 4dex/4mag gear you'd end up with..

5str
80dex
59vit
66mag

I went with a little higher mag genie than I have for myself (45mag myself) because you say you like spamming skills and you have both ce and faith on that genie.. so I figured you wouldn't be as happy with 45mag xD You need 160 energy (or actually 159 energy being that you have 5str) to use faith, but you could probably get away with lower vit and possibly higher mag if you wanted to have domain or expel instead of faith. Obviously I'm really big on dex genies, but you could also make a really high vit/mag genie to fit your need for ce if you wanted. Unfortunately you'll probably need to compromise on what you want for a genie, you can't really get "high" mag on a dex genie, nor can you get an amp like spark without a dex genie. There is also nothing that will effectively counter an assassin, although the only skills that seem to help at all I've already said :P Good luck with whatever you decide on and make sure to let me know what you do make it and how you end up liking it XD

Saeidon - Heavens Tear

Good point on the vit issue with certain combo's. I'm still getting used to this genie so figuring out the important combo's is still a bit tricky. There are plenty of times I've wanted to Badge > fortify > Wind shield (or fortify then badge) and with lvl 10 wind shield I just can't do it.

Fortify (lvl1) + badge + Wind Shield (lvl 1) = 165 energy, with 60 vit I have 160 energy, but that small amount of time between skill casts would allow me to use this combo.

Fortify (lvl1) + badge + Wind Shield (lvl 10) = 192 energy. Obviously a long way from happening.

I guess it comes down to which is most important. Full effectiveness, or better genie combo options. I'm undecided at this stage.

Arenaceous - Lost City

@Adroit: I tested it out, for some reason it won't let me cast Faith with 159 energy, even tho I got 5 str... I needed to go back up to 160 actually. Oh and I got my first Genie gear part now.

@Saeidon: What you need to learn is not using Badge that much. Try to always counter stuns with fortify since it is cheaper anyway and don't badge out of every stun. (That BM stunning you with roar and then needs to fly to you a bit? Don't badge, fortify to resist his next stun, then drop). Badge is a skill to use when you already f ucked up or as a counter to occult ice (Even tho you can resist OI with fortify). It's a different story against sins of course. Also I would not use Wind Shield after fortify, because if a BM catches you for good, you are done with or without wind shield. Try to conserve as much energy as possible and don't spam skills too much. I almost only use Wind Shield as a counter for sleep against other mages or clerics.

ArchMichael - Raging Tide

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

So I was playing around with my ideal genie (that I'll probably never get), but a few details I couldn't decide on. Figured I'd post here for any suggestions :P I want a 91+ LP discipline with..

1 Wind Force
10 Holy Path
1 Fortify
10 Badge
10 spark
10 EP
10 Wind shield
10 Domain/Faith

I really can't decide on domain vs faith (belief).. they both fit affinity wise, but have slightly different uses. I almost feel like fortify/badge + faith is redundant, but against sins.. faith would be far more valuable than fortify/badge.. and against any other class.. fortify/badge would probably be better. Its frustrating that a sin has so many different control skills, and I almost feel like to survive that first onslaught.. faith would be the best bet to get out (domain doesn't last long enough). That said, my dex genie doesn't have much energy or energy regen.. so although domain uses alot of energy.. it still uses a pretty good chunk less than faith. I like the idea of having immune to damage through domain, but I can generally accomplish the same thing by just getting out of range (and faith would help me do that). Anyone have any input as to which skill they think would be better?

@ Tankz

I think I need to make a new genie and test the OPness of badge/fortify.

I am curently using my TW genie:

It has: AD,Cloud Eruption Expel, Frenzy and EP
Stats`: 65 Vit, 125 or so Magic.


I regenerate energy pretty well and in TW i mostly use Cloud Eruption and AD to save my ***, as I am a Demon Wizard.

Unfortunatly the TWs have changed alot with the new R9 mania and it`s hard to kill them as wizzy.

I got good gear(R9 weap+12+2Iceborn) and still cant oneshot other R9s unless I crit.

I started to use a new technique in TW. 3spark+Cloud Eruption+Sutra(6 sec imunity pot)+Blade tempest+Hailstorm.

I kinda kill everything with this combo...but I can only use it like once every 2
minutes...apo CD and might get sealed which kinda ruins it.
3spark hailstorm hits harder than BIDS, i crited 35k on arcanes with it

Last thing I wanted to mention is WindForce. People greatly underestimate this skill in PK.
It`s like holypath in the air. As a wizard i found most pk I do is air born, and having the advantage of flying high faster or flying away so you can save urself or even to catch someone who runs...is amazing. I cant wait to test it in PK at west gate this week-end.

Saeidon - Heavens Tear

I know what you mean Are, though on HT its getting to the stage where noone even pk's unless they are a sin. Someone sell me a server switch stone

I do tend to use wind shield against a BM quite a lot, sins too, though I think a lot of that comes down to gear. I'm using R9 which is mostly +10, so I can sometimes wind shield through a BM's clawsspam (though not so much against a sin).

I'll take your advice on board though, you make sense. I have to admit I've probably been using badge a bit too much to get out of a stun that probably wasn't dangerous to me vs BM's (though again, against sins you need to get away instantly)

Arenaceous - Lost City

Well, I can just talk about my experiences, and I only have 2 r9 parts atm (top + legs) , 6k hp and 8k pdef Need some refines... Waiting for a sale actually. But if you are even able to tank some hits by a BM that makes my point about overusing badge even stronger - there are less dangerous stuns for you than for me. Anyway, I know the pk situation, it is similar on LC too, but maybe not that bad. PvP could be so much fun if there were no sins. I find all other classes quite balanced actually. But since there is nothing that really really helps against sins I kinda tend to not argue counter strategies against them that much, because there is not much you can do. Sure you can Badge and shrink . watch yourself get tee stunned. You can Badge + Fortify - Watch yourself get sleeped. You can expel - watch yourself get stunned/iced when it is about to wear off. You cannot see them, you cannot dream of tanking them, you cannot kite them, you cannot one shot them, you cannot even count on sealing them. And when you do somehow manage to break free, there is always the shadow escape button. Seems like a totally balanced class. Well, maybe it helps to have faith... (pun intended >_>)

Adroit - Lost City

@Saideron - sounds like you just need a little time to get used to the new genie :P Basically what Arenaceous has said.. you just need to conserve energy a little more. It'll probably take a bit getting used to being that you are so used to the higher vit/mag genie.. but you seem to have a really good grasp of pvp/genies etc, I doubt you'll have any trouble adjusting.

@Arenaceous - It's interesting that faith always requires 160 energy, good to know :P How has faith been working in pvp (especially vs sins).. I've almost decided to restat my genie, I've been holding off trying to decide if I was really going to add faith to my genie (and do you miss domain at all?). Also gz on your first genie gear :P

@ArchMichael - ya wind force is definitely nice. The one downside ofc is that you need a discipline genie (getting any high LP genie is hard.. esp a clean disicpline) and you can't relearn it if you ever removed it. I've also noticed it has a bit of an acceleration time.. if I'm not moving in the air it wastes like 1-2 seconds of it trying to speed up (unlike holy path which is nearly instant). Just took me a little getting used to for getting up to speed before using it :P

Adroit - Lost City

Just another update, I finally did redo my genie.. dumped frenzy + domain for wind shield + faith. I was **** around dueling randoms in arch, obviously needs to be tested more but no regrets yet :P Its funny because half the people I was dueling didn't get what faith did.. so this one sin in particular would unload every control skill it could think of while I was immune to such effects.. made me lol on the inside a bit. (Open with tackling from stealth, I faith.. see occult + headhunt + sleep while I'm wrecking it.. lawl). I seem to remember some comment about me being lucky afterwards, I can only assume they thought that 5% for headhunt not to stun or something proc'd 3 times in a row.. and magically I wasn't immobilized after this funny animation came up.. I dunno. I'll update as I test it out in world pvp a bit more :P The one big downside is that after faith.. I'm left with literally 0 energy, so I can't even fortify that tele stun coming next, although I guess that's what apoth is for XD I knew going into this that it wasn't perfect, but hopefully my genie will overall be better than before :P

Cheze - Lost City

hi .

Arenaceous - Lost City

Cheze - Lost City wrote: »

hi .

Sin is stealing the wizards secrets of genie building. YOU CANNOT POST HERE, FISH! b:cry

Saeidon - Heavens Tear

I agree Ad that my biggest problem is a lack of experience with this new genie (and to some extent as a wiz!), I'm so used to just popping badge whenever I'm stunned at all. It feels like I need to treat my genie a bit more like the wiz skills themselves, as sparingly as possible, so that they are definitely there when I absolutely need to escape, or get the oppurtunity to launch the killing blow.

About not bothering to build for the sins, I know what you mean, there doesn't seem to be any point as the fight is so heavily mismatched from the start. The main thing I think is ensuring that you are competent enough against sins in a group pvp situation so that you can kite them well enough to cause them to be ineffective.

Oh one thing though, I do think that psychics at end game are just as OP as sins (maybe even more so), its just that the sin class is a whole lot more exploitative and cowardly, making it much easier to see how OP they are.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

right now we have only one full +12 r9 Psy with g16 cube necky on DW
i didnt have to deal with her in TW since she is on the same side but
next orb sale there will be more, and not on the friendly team

they are almost imposible to kill, def. not killable alone with those nasty seals





@adroit, ty for your effort ^^
imma try those skills when i hit enough coin again to buy a genie or simply reset one of my 71 lp genies xd (spent most coin for gear + tome for my own fishy :C )

curious tho, wind shield is damage reduction.. is that even recommendable at ~6k hp/10k pdef/5(lol)defLvl ?

figured i drop really fast to claw/dagger/fist-rampage, AD or expel seemed to be the only way o.o *geh* gotta try

Arenaceous - Lost City

Wind Shield is nothing you would use against Bms or Sins, since it makes no difference once they catch you... You mostly use it against clerics or other mages when you get sleeped to prevent a one shot/charm bypass.

Nurfed_You - Harshlands

Actually windshield is what i use when i mess up and get stunned by an aps bm (if badge is on cooldown). You'd be surprise how much of a diffence it makes between a charm tick and death.

I guess it would help against sins if they arent using stealth but most of the time the priority is to make them stop doing damage not just reduce it.

Pearlwood - Lost City

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Just another update, I finally did redo my genie.. dumped frenzy + domain for wind shield + faith. I was **** around dueling randoms in arch, obviously needs to be tested more but no regrets yet :P Its funny because half the people I was dueling didn't get what faith did.. so this one sin in particular would unload every control skill it could think of while I was immune to such effects.. made me lol on the inside a bit. (Open with tackling from stealth, I faith.. see occult + headhunt + sleep while I'm wrecking it.. lawl). I seem to remember some comment about me being lucky afterwards, I can only assume they thought that 5% for headhunt not to stun or something proc'd 3 times in a row.. and magically I wasn't immobilized after this funny animation came up.. I dunno. I'll update as I test it out in world pvp a bit more :P The one big downside is that after faith.. I'm left with literally 0 energy, so I can't even fortify that tele stun coming next, although I guess that's what apoth is for XD I knew going into this that it wasn't perfect, but hopefully my genie will overall be better than before :P

Interesting to see u got faith. In any event, IMO fortify and badge are indispensable for PVP genie. It took a while, but I now see the truth of it. Peace out.

Adroit - Lost City

@Hex - ya I'd still recommend wind shield. You gotta remember that these genie skills are just ways to increase the effectiveness of your character, it doesn't mean that me with +5 HH90 is gonna take on a full +12 r9. 9 seconds you could effectively be at 8k hp to help prevent a bypass could be a very nice thing :P. Remember, with a charm.. you need to worry about dps that can kill you in < 10 secs (mostly -int chars.. where fortify/badge keep you out of range) and dph where they bypass your charm. Having a little something on your genie besides domain is a big plus imo. Just realize it isn't meant to spam every 9 seconds in a fight to pretend you have 8k hp for like 30-40 seconds.. its something you use just before a big skill to turn a bypass into a charm tick. There are other uses ofc (such as using against a bm if badge fails or is on cd), but the main reason I have it on my genie is because I was finding I didn't really have anything I could use against magic classes.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

basically need as much genie vit to fit badge + wind shield

Adroit - Lost City

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

basically need as much genie vit to fit badge + wind shield

37 vit shouldn't be a problem (i hope). Although for the most part, you probably won't be using them back to back.. so I wouldn't design your genie around being able to use them at the same time lol

Arenaceous - Lost City

After days of sniping WC offers and nights of catshopping it's finally done:

http://s7.directupload.net/images/110531/wf95xubw.jpg

I love it. What do you think?

Adroit - Lost City

Arenaceous - Lost City wrote: »

After days of sniping WC offers and nights of catshopping it's finally done:

http://s7.directupload.net/images/110531/wf95xubw.jpg

I love it. What do you think?

looks really good /jealous. Now you just need to buy me 12 medals and call it a night b:victory

Nurfed_You - Harshlands

So I've recently added windshield to my genie, my question is when do you guys use it? Like I've been trying to save it for when badge/fortify are on cooldown and i get stun/occult. Anyone have some really good uses?

Adroit - Lost City

Nurfed_You - Harshlands wrote: »

So I've recently added windshield to my genie, my question is when do you guys use it? Like I've been trying to save it for when badge/fortify are on cooldown and i get stun/occult. Anyone have some really good uses?

i don't use windshield against aps chars really, it's more for just dph. I really like it for sleep, you really only need to save yourself from a bypass when you're slept.. after the first hit u can blink out, fow, etc etc When you see some damage coming in that you can't really avoid, thats when you wind shield (assuming its enough damage to worry about.. :P)

Scorched_Sky - Sanctuary

Got a question for you Adroit:

I just got a TW genie, discipline, 67/100.

I currently have:
Holy Path 10
CE 1
AD 10
Frenzy 10

What shall my 5th skill be? I also can't decide if I want it to be pure mag/vit or dump some dex into it to (if I get windshield for example).

I can't get fortify as I'm only lvl 100, and I'd need a 101 genie for that. Skills I'm considering: Windshield, ToP, Lawbreaker (worth it? I kinda doubt it, but just throwing it out there)

Adroit - Lost City

Scorched_Sky - Sanctuary wrote: »

Got a question for you Adroit:

I just got a TW genie, discipline, 67/100.

I currently have:
Holy Path 10
CE 1
AD 10
Frenzy 10

What shall my 5th skill be? I also can't decide if I want it to be pure mag/vit or dump some dex into it to (if I get windshield for example).

I can't get fortify as I'm only lvl 100, and I'd need a 101 genie for that. Skills I'm considering: Windshield, ToP, Lawbreaker (worth it? I kinda doubt it, but just throwing it out there)

That's really similar to my TW genie, I was kinda pulling my hair out deciding between expel and fortify. Eventually I went with fortify so I could fortify -> IG, to use with an ulti for a better chance at my ulti landing, and for when I see an obvious stun coming (like a bm running in). I really wanted expel to have something to help me survive vs archers/sins.. and especially on defense if I were to open dragons breath on a bunch of barbs.

Just keep in my when choosing your last skill, none of your current skills really require much str/dex to be useful (if any), so I'd recommend choosing a last skill that also does not (wind shield is heavily dependent on dex, top + lawbreaker are both heavily dependent on str). Remember, you want to fit as much vit/mag on your genie as possible (so you can spam skills), and only add str/dex if your primary skills NEED it to be useful. So it makes sense for my genie to have high dex because it benefits spark, badge, wind force, wind shield, and fortify. But my TW genie with holy path, ce, domain, frenzy, and fortify has base str/dex and all the rest into vit/mag. Yes, ce benefits from str and fortify benefits from dex.. but they are both worthwhile skills even at base dex (unlike genie spark.. where it goes from a 30% fire res reduction at 0 dex to 100% reduction at 100 dex.. you can see why you'd want dex for a skill like that)

I'm not sure if that made any sense.. but I g2g for a bit and I figure if it doesn't you'll say something and I can try to explain it better when I get back :P

Scorched_Sky - Sanctuary

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

That's really similar to my TW genie, I was kinda pulling my hair out deciding between expel and fortify. Eventually I went with fortify so I could fortify -> IG, to use with an ulti for a better chance at my ulti landing, and for when I see an obvious stun coming (like a bm running in). I really wanted expel to have something to help me survive vs archers/sins.. and especially on defense if I were to open dragons breath on a bunch of barbs.

Just keep in my when choosing your last skill, none of your current skills really require much str/dex to be useful (if any), so I'd recommend choosing a last skill that also does not (wind shield is heavily dependent on dex, top + lawbreaker are both heavily dependent on str). Remember, you want to fit as much vit/mag on your genie as possible (so you can spam skills), and only add str/dex if your primary skills NEED it to be useful. So it makes sense for my genie to have high dex because it benefits spark, badge, wind force, wind shield, and fortify. But my TW genie with holy path, ce, domain, frenzy, and fortify has base str/dex and all the rest into vit/mag. Yes, ce benefits from str and fortify benefits from dex.. but they are both worthwhile skills even at base dex (unlike genie spark.. where it goes from a 30% fire res reduction at 0 dex to 100% reduction at 100 dex.. you can see why you'd want dex for a skill like that)

I'm not sure if that made any sense.. but I g2g for a bit and I figure if it doesn't you'll say
something and I can try to explain it better when I get back :P

No I totally get that, and my pvp genie is almost identical to yours too.

Just wish I didnt have to kill like a billion sp for lvl 101 -.-

Adroit - Lost City

Scorched_Sky - Sanctuary wrote: »

No I totally get that, and my pvp genie is almost identical to yours too.

Just wish I didnt have to kill like a billion sp for lvl 101 -.-

whats on your pvp genie again?
and ya.. you're gonna have to work towards 101 if you do decide on fortify

Nunxbl - Archosaur

What do you think about other genie skills such as Mage Star, Aquaflame Armor? Does it still not worth?

Adroit - Lost City

Nunxbl - Archosaur wrote: »

What do you think about other genie skills such as Mage Star, Aquaflame Armor? Does it still not worth?

mage star doesn't seem to give the same shield as like TE (absorb at least one hit), it seems to just absorb the 1k in the description.. which is about useless. Aquaflame armor basically gives 5% more reduction than wind shield (like 26 vs 31 at 90 dex) but costs alot more energy (95 vs 62), has a longer cooldown (1min vs 1sec), and aquaflame then amps you for 10 seconds after the fact. I'm sure there are a few situations when aquaflame would be nice, but in general.. you'd be crazy to use aquaflame over wind shield imo