Proving that 5aps isn't broken

sethh

a... sure... amm sure...xD k ...ammm nerf 5.0 :P!!!

WhiteVodoo - Raging Tide

tweakz wrote: »

OMG! A buttefly flaps it's wings 5* a second! -It's going to keel me!


A magic user can cast a stun or devastating AoE from a distance before the 5aps is even close.


But what if he misses 5x a sec?


Magic users? Barb should be dead in 1 hit.

well that first comment was just plain stupid, possibly full on ritarded...

as fer the second comment, um, please tell me how i'm supposed ta hit an assassin in stealth mode. can you tell me a way other than to be 20 lvls above him?

3rd comment: yeah, okay, he'll miss 5 times a second while attacking a magic user, most of which have ZERO additional points in dex, and if they're a LA user like me, trust me, they still have sh!tty evasion. the odds of that happening are one in a million, so the comment was also stupid, bordering on full on ritarded.

and last but not least, the fourth comment. barbs dead in 1 hit? look, i know they have horrible defence, but if you'll notice please taht i said a vit barb, ya know, the ones with an insanely high hp tank and skills that increase the size of it by ALLOT. they're gonna die in 1 hit huh? yeah, first off, i'm a mage, if they couldn't get to me before my INSANELY LONG channeling time finally ended, then maybe, if i got a crit hit and he didn't quite have full hp, and i got really lucky where the dude just happened ta have no gear that provided defence for that element i was using, maybe, just maybe, that might happen. but again, highly unlikely.

so, again, i repeat, as a magic user, i find the fact that any melee class will be able to kill me in 2 seconds, maybe 3 if i was lucky, rediculous, and overpowered, and it makes magic users other than clerics look useless to new people surfing the forums about game info. when people see that they'll be able to potentially attack 5 times a second on a melee class at high lvls, if they're a starting player, they're gonna choose a melee class, and it will be the downfall of the magic user classes.

please don't reply to my posts if you're going to be a jackwagon like this person and start talking about butterflies. if ya got something intelligent to say and will GIVE ME THE MAGIC USER EQUIVALENT TO 5APS then by all means, please reply to my post.

WhiteVodoo - Raging Tide

sethh wrote: »

a... sure... amm sure...xD k ...ammm nerf 5.0 :P!!!

nerf? how about completely get rid of? or maybe give magic users a special weapon with it's own attack biult in that fires at 5 attacks per second without an mp consumption. maybe then melee users will get the dam point. how does that sound melee users? would that be unfair cause it would make you die as quickly as us? i guess if they did that it would end up coming down to whoever fired first. ofcorse, then again, i'll make it abit more fair since we can fire at a range. make the weapons fire at 2.5 attacks per second. that would make things fair, right? or would that be to harsh for you defences to withstand? if ya think it would, then welcome to our world...

Evanera - Heavens Tear

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

If you got one shot by a sin from stealth the problem is obviously not +APS gears

No sin can one shot me unless they have zerk on their daggers, and crit.

What kills me at least 90% of the time against a hard hitting sin, is that when they pop out of stealth they 3-4 shot me and go around my charm. That gives me less then..0.25 seconds to expel myself? Sorry..by the time I get anywhere near clicking expel and it casts on me, he will have already hit me and killed me.

WhiteVodoo - Raging Tide

Evanera - Heavens Tear wrote: »

No sin can one shot me unless they have zerk on their daggers, and crit.

What kills me at least 90% of the time against a hard hitting sin, is that when they pop out of stealth they 3-4 shot me and go around my charm. That gives me less then..0.25 seconds to expel myself? Sorry..by the time I get anywhere near clicking expel and it casts on me, he will have already hit me and killed me.

3-4 shot you, with 5 aps, so that's take 1 second?... again, i repeat, can someone give me a magic use equivalent of the 5aps system fer melee users?...

Jadsia - Lost City

tweakz wrote: »

You're just trolling, not making points. People complain about imbalances in any game where there are characters with different abilities. You say unintended but produce a source for it?

I could start drudging up all that old BS here but why would I even waste my time and forum space when you start name calling. LOL. I made my point clear enough as well as what I think is the best overall solution.

Evict - Heavens Tear

WhiteVodoo - Raging Tide wrote: »

again, i repeat, can someone give me a magic use equivalent of the 5aps system fer melee users?...

tweakz wrote: »

The limit to aps is 5, the limit to -ch is 0

There you go. b:chuckleb:laugh

ArchSaber - Sanctuary

To equalize mage damage with fist damage, mage should just have instant cast by now. That would sooo break the game even more.

Arshies - Sanctuary

100% channeling is imposible even if you get the best channeling stuff and all gear channeling bonuses, while 5.0aps is a reality.

Evanera - Heavens Tear

Actually, 100% channeling is possible for a demon wizard with wellspring quaff (for 15 seconds). Though, getting to that stage is..99.99999999% impossible. Also, getting us to that point severely gimps us on many other useful stats. The only good thing about that build would be to just ninja people and that's it.

It's not fair to remove 5 aps from the game. People who spend hundreds of million coins to get that gear deserves to keep it (minus some people). Interval isn't like channeling because the more interval you have, the higher it goes up. While channeling isn't like that. It goes up a steady amount.

Maybe if channeling was like aps, such as -6%, then adding another -6% puts you at 13% channeling. Adding another would put you at 21, then 30, 40, 55 etc etc. Then it would be similarly fair to aps.

Ruli - Heavens Tear

APS will be far less of a problem if the devs tweek flesh ream so its the king of aggro skills. Barbs might be wanted alot more for nirvana's then.
Wizzie DPS is all about channelling but lets face its alot of the really cool skills you can cook dinner by time its been cast, even with high channelling gear, You cant avoid cool down no matter how fast you channell the skill.
Fact is high aps dont need too spam skills. 5 aps not even using mana.... spark hit spark hit spark snore....
Got a tiny wee lvl 74BM with the -intelligence bracers an boy do i feel dumb, after playing a wizzie for 2 years plus, a Barb for almost 2 years an now this its a no brainer.
Spark hit spark hit spark hit. My problem for a Barbs perspective with high aps people isnt the DPS, hell no thats welcome its the aggro, its supposed to be the tanks aggro its what i spent almost 2 years making him for, too tank stuff. Barb is made as a damage soak for the rest of the party. But if the poor barb just cant possible hold aggro cos of the BM/Sin ect he ends up chewing through 3 sparks for nothing whats the point?

Why would i do that? why burn 3 sparks to increase my repair bill?
Why cos A its supposed to be my job n B that 5.0 aps chap not gonner do a great job of holding aggro when the wizzie hits the mobbie for 150k with a sparked sandstorm an rips it right off him. Oh wait I got no chi now an wizzie getting chewed on by the mobby an is opps CLERIC. Thing is though they use the aps at wrong time an on my wizzie whom is now prolly considerd under powered will still consistantly pull aggro off a BM or sin.
Even without a tweeked flesh ream the barb keeps aggro.

Last note, the sins aggro skill is higher at lvl 10 than sage flesh ream. Somthing wrong with that picture?

Evict - Heavens Tear

Evanera - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually, 100% channeling is possible for a demon wizard with wellspring quaff (for 15 seconds). Though, getting to that stage is..99.99999999% impossible.

Although this is great, according to OP, -0% channeling is the cap. b:chuckle

hellok

Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Although this great, according to OP, -0% channeling is the cap. b:chuckle

-90% was the channel cap from what i remember. For example if you use sutra and you will notice it is not eliminating the - channel time. They really need to to update the skill descriptions for sutra and frostblade. Is it too much to ask to fix the old stuff like that, rubberbanding and many more before adding on to the game.

Born_Free - Harshlands

Evanera - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It's not fair to remove 5 aps from the game. People who spend hundreds of million coins to get that gear deserves to keep it (minus some people). Interval isn't like channeling because the more interval you have, the higher it goes up. While channeling isn't like that. It goes up a steady amount.

It's not fair that every caster except clerics get screwed for instances.
It's not fair that every melee class has to compete with 5aps.
It's not fair that if you're NOT aps, you're screwed in PK unless you're a barb.
It wasn't fair when they stuck endgame in packs.
It wasn't fair when they gave 5APS to an invisible class.
It wasn't fair when they giftwrapped rank gear.
It wasn't fair when they nurfed TW.
It wasn't fair when they nurfed instances.
QQbirds aren't fair.

And on.....and on.....and on.....and on.....There's a whole LIST of things that aren't fair!

PWI doesn't CARE about what's fair. They could care less if you spent 10k to get your BM or Barb, or (lol) Veno to 5.0. In the end, they will still make you spend more money just to keep up with the guy next to you. It's just good business, and that's all they truly care about---Of course it is: they are a business....a GREEDY one, but a business still.

And so your solution to fixing APS is to make us JUST like them-- Addicted to -chan, berating every caster who doesn't have -chan, and being completely overbearing?
Two wrongs don't make a right. Ever.

Anybody else know how much faster a Psychic channels than any other class? Now stick a -Chan addiction into the air.
You can pretty much forget about rolling a Wizard now. If you try and counter an APS addiction with a -chan addiction, Wizards will suffer the same fate as Archers, because Wizards are the slowest casters in the entire game. DPS or no DPS, if everybody wants a -chan caster, they're not going to go with the slowest caster in the game, no matter how fancy your gear is.
No-- they'll pick the clerics and the Psychics. Then you'll have even MORE mindless oafs trying to roll Psychics in a vain attempt to try and be successful.....and fail miserably. As if the servers didn't have enough mindless dummies spamming AoE's at the wrong place at the wrong time....

Fighting fire with fire isn't a good idea. Besides this, do you honestly think PWI would put the effort into making a completely different setup, new gear to counter the APS problem?I won't be holding my breath. Removing APS is the EASY WAY, and the CHEAP way, and if there's an easier and cheaper way, they don't care if half the playerbase rage quits and leaves the game for good. They're so incredibly short-sighted about the future of this game, it's not even funny anymore. (An example being the Rank Sale before a major expansion.)

And tweakz......you've yet to prove how APS isn't broken yet. It's been like....17 pages or so now. You wanna give up trolling yet, or should you continue to embarrass yourself in public with your obvious lack of insight? It's honestly your call, but I'll just input that it's pretty obvious you're fighting a losing battle.

Conavar - Heavens Tear

Ruli - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Even without a tweeked flesh ream the barb keeps aggro.

Pre-100 maybe .. Post 100 they would have to tweak flesh ream or a non -int Tank will have little to no chance to hold agro. R8/9 is common place now and the current Barb skills for agro control just don't cut it anymore vs the vast Dmg output of rank weapons.

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

lol, flesh ream is irrevelant. bms/sins/archers can tank fine most of the stuff and ofc they wont take a meatshield to ut their profit if it doesnt DD good enough (hint: 5aps barb)

Traz - Dreamweaver

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »

lol, flesh ream is irrevelant. bms/sins/archers can tank fine most of the stuff and ofc they wont take a meatshield to ut their profit if it doesnt DD good enough (hint: 5aps barb)

Speak for yourself a barb is beyond priceless in 3-3 and some higher level instances. Besides buffs, they have one of the better debuffs, they have the best cancel for bosses channeling, and frighten saves my *** sometimes. b:surrender

Conavar - Heavens Tear

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »

lol, flesh ream is irrevelant. bms/sins/archers can tank fine most of the stuff and ofc they wont take a meatshield to ut their profit if it doesnt DD good enough (hint: 5aps barb)

With the current situation yes it is irrelevant but if in the future they did nurf apps to any substantial degree agro management would become an issue and the current Barb skills just wouldn't cut it.
Not sure who all these people calling for an aps nurf think would tank.

WnbTank - Archosaur

Ruli - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why would i do that? why burn 3 sparks to increase my repair bill?
Why cos A its supposed to be my job n B that 5.0 aps chap not gonner do a great job of holding aggro when the wizzie hits the mobbie for 150k with a sparked sandstorm an rips it right off him. Oh wait I got no chi now an wizzie getting chewed on by the mobby an is opps CLERIC. Thing is though they use the aps at wrong time an on my wizzie whom is now prolly considerd under powered will still consistantly pull aggro off a BM or sin.
Even without a tweeked flesh ream the barb keeps aggro.

Last note, the sins aggro skill is higher at lvl 10 than sage flesh ream. Somthing wrong with that picture?

Your one of those wizzies that hit hard nuke when they see tank on spark animation? That is simply the most freaking irritating type of players, range DDs that start hitting when I`m sparking. On bosses, mobs die so fast it doesnt matter who got aggro. I do hit for like 2-3 times before sparking, it`s just not enough if those range DDs have sparked while I was running towards boss/wizzie drops bids/etc.

And no, barb wont keep aggro with -int ppl on 10x, it`s simply impossible. Now I had 330 str, R8 wep, demon true form, axe mastery, flesh ream, yet those 5aps kept aggro from me, no matter what I did `cept when they were sparking and I could pull it off. That is when I was testing how well I can hold aggro from aps, usually I was just devouring and increasing my squad dps they way I could. Nowdays I`m clawbarb myself, keeping aggro is so much easier than before. Interval is simply broken, it wasnt my plan to go claws when I made my barb, right now it`s the path that suits me best, I got no regrets with restatting.

WnbTank - Archosaur

Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »

It's not fair that if you're NOT aps, you're screwed in PK unless you're a barb.
[/COLOR]

Yeah, tell that to those R9 casters, we got veno that can 1shot all but 1 barb on server. Yes, veno, now would we have wizzies/psys who were equally geared, I bet they could 1shot even that r9 barb with full vit stones on R9 +10 gear. Yeah, barbs are totally safe in PK these days with r8 weps and blessings everywhere.

Evict - Heavens Tear

Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »

Two wrongs don't make a right. Ever.

But two rights make a left! b:chuckle It had to be said.

Necare - Harshlands

Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »

Two wrongs don't make a right. Ever.

In math, two - makes one +, so 2 wrongs make 1 right.

And also APS is broken with their 120k DPS.

It would be like a wiz hitting 672k with BIDS and no -channeling. Don't see many of those, do you?

Born_Free - Harshlands

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

Yeah, tell that to those R9 casters, we got veno that can 1shot all but 1 barb on server. Yes, veno, now would we have wizzies/psys who were equally geared, I bet they could 1shot even that r9 barb with full vit stones on R9 +10 gear. Yeah, barbs are totally safe in PK these days with r8 weps and blessings everywhere.

Hey, who said anything about Rank not being broken? (Let me guess tweakz, there's no problem with that either right?) b:chuckle

.....but I think you're overexaggerating with the R9 barb with VIT stones and +10.....that's a little off the chart. Unless the Barb isn't a 'normal' Barb build, if it has Rank 9, VIT stones, and +10, the casters can try anything they want.........there's no way you're going to live before that barb comes over there and garrotes/beast stomps you dead.

tweakz

Necare - Harshlands wrote: »

In math, two - makes one +, so 2 wrongs make 1 right.

And also APS is broken with their 120k DPS.

It would be like a wiz hitting 672k with BIDS and no -channeling. Don't see many of those, do you?

Why do you insist on comparing apples and oranges? BIDS is AoE (1 hit 50+ mobs at a time) . Do 5aps have such devastating AoE? Is it not fair until casters have the same 1-1 dps and continue their dominance in AoE, range tanking, and low repairs?

Fresh_Aire - Dreamweaver

tweakz wrote: »

do 5aps Have Such Devastating Aoe?

blademasters.

SaiIorMoon - Lost City

Fresh_Aire - Dreamweaver wrote: »

blademasters.

...will never have 5asp with axes.

Fresh_Aire - Dreamweaver

SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »

...will never have 5asp with axes.

Can easily switch back to fists after AoE.

(hur hur hur....) b:chuckle

Tamias - Archosaur

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

Nowdays I`m clawbarb myself, keeping aggro is so much easier than before. Interval is simply broken, it wasnt my plan to go claws when I made my barb, right now it`s the path that suits me best, I got no regrets with restatting.

Claws are SHT in delta and you'd have to restat out to even survive in there. Sorry but I like my tanks being less anorexic tyvm... *shakes head* you were a GREAT tank in TW before in cata pulling back in Impulse... why you'd wreak yourself now and not even geared like BeastIsboss from HT I will never know...such a shame a good barb goes to waste on claws...

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »

lol, flesh ream is irrevelant. bms/sins/archers can tank fine most of the stuff and ofc they wont take a meatshield to ut their profit if it doesnt DD good enough (hint: 5aps barb)

What is this I dont even...

Do you know even with my demon IH + pure mag Bm/Sin/Archer 5 aps tanks suck BALLS at staying alive? And in the instances that MATTER to me? You're as short sighted as part of the PWI company snorting up the next line of for-profit crack you can get. *barfs all over your Deicides* 1-2 years ago you were LAUGHED at for stating fists due to not enough -int to do enough proper damage-sword/axe BMs were the sht and barbs were built to tank. Now every little QQ 10 year old with the attention span of a mushroom thinks they can tank...

Do I care about profit? No I can farm herbs for that sht. I dont walk into Lunars and Nirvanas FOR PROFIT *GASP* I walk in there for GEAR. After the fact even then I wouldnt farm for profit. Go show me a sin that can tank arma w/ cleric heals NOT sharing aggro w/ other 5 APS. Go show me an archer that can tank and make the pulls in Deltas the entire way. Go show me a BM that can tank Warsong's. THEN I'll believe youre pathetic statement...

I actually VALUE a good tank unlike some of you 5 APS tards...(not that Im saying some 5 aps ppl dont value good tanks-its just that alot of them cant see past their big egos through triple spark to appreciate it)

/enrant

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

Tamias - Archosaur wrote: »

Claws are SHT in delta and you'd have to restat out to even survive in there. Sorry but I like my tanks being less anorexic tyvm... *shakes head* you were a GREAT tank in TW before in cata pulling back in Impulse... why you'd wreak yourself now and not even geared like BeastIsboss from HT I will never know...such a shame a good barb goes to waste on claws...



What is this I dont even...

Do you know even with my demon IH + pure mag Bm/Sin/Archer 5 aps tanks suck BALLS at staying alive? And in the instances that MATTER to me? You're as short sighted as part of the PWI company snorting up the next line of for-profit crack you can get. *barfs all over your Deicides* 1-2 years ago you were LAUGHED at for stating fists due to not enough -int to do enough proper damage-sword/axe BMs were the sht and barbs were built to tank. Now every little QQ 10 year old with the attention span of a mushroom thinks they can tank...

Do I care about profit? No I can farm herbs for that sht. I dont walk into Lunars and Nirvanas FOR PROFIT *GASP* I walk in there for GEAR. After the fact even then I wouldnt farm for profit. Go show me a sin that can tank arma w/ cleric heals NOT sharing aggro w/ other 5 APS. Go show me an archer that can tank and make the pulls in Deltas the entire way. Go show me a BM that can tank Warsong's. THEN I'll believe youre pathetic statement...

I actually VALUE a good tank unlike some of you 5 APS tards...(not that Im saying some 5 aps ppl dont value good tanks-its just that alot of them cant see past their big egos through triple spark to appreciate it)

/enrant

i have seen a sin solo (buffed though) 3-x;
wc shouts for clericless nirvanas are starting to be common
sins tanking snake, archers tanking snake, wizards tanking snake.
bms tanking world bosses, bms soloing nirvana, sins soloing nirvana.
i have seen clerics qq cause they are not really wanted in squads.

yes, so far i have only seen a barb pulling the full delta; but i have seen sins and bms pulling the first 2 waves.

yes, in some cases a barb is needed or it's nice to have a barb; i will never deny it.
as in some cases a cleric is needed or a cleric is nice.
and lesser geared squads would need a cleric, even a barb.

people hesitate to throw clerics/barbs out of squads cause the barb tanks cleric heals archetype is still in their minds. but slowly, as more and more people gear up, even those classes will start to have less and less jobs as the superclass will be able to tank+heal+DD.
that's what my personal view anyway although i hope that i will be wrong.

oh and yes, some bosses will require clerics and barbs
but TIME = MONEY = GEAR; and what cannot be farmed can be bought.
who cares about a couple of world bosses and delta?
the good tomes and gems are in tha packs anyway.
book pages? tokens.

Tamias - Archosaur

Because idiots who throw out the clerics/barbs are the ones who wont have anyone for their low level FC's for their new shiny classes ijs. (Sadly I can see this now for archo server in the near future ;-;)

Good luck on finding us when you all try seekers/mystics. b:bye

A market for any of this readily available? Archo bar non is the WORSE off with that kind of attitude you're describing considering that there were no prolific TT/Lunar farmers nor many Delta goers. Before the packs and before all this **** there was farming and working for these things. Dreamweaver, HT, Lost, Harshlands and even RT are all better off in this department for any sort of market. Thats just the way it goes.

So tell me again when you come on Archo that WC calls for clericless nirvanas, because Ive been FL and rushed to 100 just so that people could have a cleric for Nirvanas. The only sin even remotely close to tanking anything solo in end-game instances was Dreamery and he's long since quit the game. There is no market for anything because the APS wearers are few, far between and only farm for either their own chars or for faction members.

Not that Im directly made at you, its just that that attitude on a server that's not as geared out as the older servers with the market to back it up is laughable. If they had the background like other old servers sure this could work and it screws out a lot of good players. But as for now, that view usually finds people short of one member for Lunars/Delta/Warsong/Nirvana and loosing 2-3 percent EXP