Proving that 5aps isn't broken

Quilue - Sanctuary

Really? That's why they made Nirvana leggings have -int despite knowing archer/sins can already reach 5.0 with Rank top right? That's why they increased the chi gain for BM/Sins up to 5/hit right?

CandyCorn - Raging Tide

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Really? That's why they made Nirvana leggings have -int despite knowing archer/sins can already reach 5.0 with Rank top right? That's why they increased the chi gain for BM/Sins up to 5/hit right?

If i say yes, then will i be right?

tweakz

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

*rolls eyes*

dps is situational:

dps of a wizard on a nirvana boss is not higher than 5aps.

dps of a wizard in delta is higher than 5aps.

One person will see this and go "5aps is broken", another person will see this and go "we need additional high-end content". Then the "5aps is broken" types start saying ... well, you know...

When will people start running warsong outside of BH? I've also rarely run an FB99 *round 'em up and AoE them* style. Last time a Barb tried: I triple sparked-> Cloud Eruption-> Nova-> Noxious, and it's too bad I'm the only DD that caught on. The mobs got me with a mere ~20% of their health to them. It takes time for people to adapt to new strengths. We're too accustomed to the old ways with our weak +2 weapons low level skills and pre +30atk level days.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

*rolls eyes*

dps is situational:

dps of a wizard on a nirvana boss is not higher than 5aps.

dps of a wizard in delta is higher than 5aps.

One person will see this and go "5aps is broken", another person will see this and go "we need additional high-end content". Then the "5aps is broken" types start saying ... well, you know...

Good post.

SQUISHKASS - Sanctuary

When will people start running warsong outside of BH?

b:chuckle When the guild system comes out that supposedly requires tons of warsong emblems, besides other things.

Jadsia - Lost City

Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

5aps isn't broken because it's working perfectly fine. Was 5aps intended when the int system was implemented? Maybe, maybe not. But it's certainly not a glitch.

That same argument was made way back when all the QQ rage involved venos with their bramble hood owning melee DDs in PvP. Guess what? The devs nerfed the bramble hood and bramble gaurd so there is no relfect in PvP outside of TW and duels. As I stated, if 5 APS with the ability of a permaspark isn't broken then un-nerf the bramble buffs for venos because that was working just as fine and was just as "unbroken" as the APS issue is now.

Dellores - Dreamweaver

I thought bramble damage was removed so ppl wouldn't go pink named without actively attacking somebody

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

Good post.

What is more important to have more than 5 APS in delta(multimobs)? Or to have 5 APS to fight just one boss(mob). Think.

threepointone

Dellores - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I thought bramble damage was removed so ppl wouldn't go pink named without actively attacking somebody

If that was the case, why not remove the damage reflect from Psychic's Soul of Vengeance?

Born_Free - Harshlands

threepointone wrote: »

If that was the case, why not remove the damage reflect from Psychic's Soul of Vengeance?

Because it's not reflected. We still take damage, (attack damage dealt to us remains the same, so if you hit me for 500 without SoV on, you're going to hit 500 with it on)....and they take damage equal to a certain % of our soulforce...which in comparison to a Venomancer's Bramble guard....isn't that fantastic...unless you're friggin THANOS, and have like a bajillion skillion refines. (Jerk....gimme some. b:chuckle) The only real use it has is adding a little extra slap to people who want to hit you...and it's pretty hilarious watching people suicide by trying to kill you.

And by the way Tweakie...people used to run Warsoul outside BH....back when you got Warsoul gear via hard work and effort... v.v

Regenbogen - Lost City

5aps costs ~200-500m...it can't be broken...noooooooo!!! b:sad *sarcasm*

Fleuri - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

When will people start running warsong outside of BH?

I did not mention warsong because that would have made my examples complicated. But, since you brought this up: I need Obscure Reaper, do you play on sanctuary? (Ok, I would really like to get into City of Naught, repeatedly, but I would settle for a squad willing to fight Obscure Reaper.)

threepointone wrote: »

If that was the case, why not remove the damage reflect from Psychic's Soul of Vengeance?

According to a hint message I read: they did, when protections are set that way.

But they made the change to venos long before they introduced configurable protections, and I imagine they did not have the priority for programmer resources, to debug another change to venos.

But APS from reflect is limited, among other things, by how much healing you have available.

Obly - Dreamweaver

@ The forums Topic;

5 APS is not broken its working exactly the way it always has....

So why a big deal now? That answer is simple;

The game's mechanics was not based nor calculated for a player database of 80% of the server running around with 3.33 or higher APS (3.33 is NOW easy 2 get, without rank gear!).

This is a change that made the -int more available for fist classes, but it was not ment to so common. It used 2 be a very exclusive feature, that only a very few could obtain, via ALOT of hard work, and some cash help (but not much).

For all teh people that have been playing this game for about 1 year now, or less, you should not be complaining, as you have no idea of the game's initial mechanics and uses of skills and hard work. (yes i went there)

For all the players that have been running around since PW-MY (Or longer like me) You all know one thing to be true.

To understand where this game is going, look back and see where we came from, the conclusion from that should not be hard 2 figure out.

Obly out

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »

Because it's not reflected. We still take damage, (attack damage dealt to us remains the same, so if you hit me for 500 without SoV on, you're going to hit 500 with it on)....and they take damage equal to a certain % of our soulforce...which in comparison to a Venomancer's Bramble guard....isn't that fantastic...unless you're friggin THANOS, and have like a bajillion skillion refines. (Jerk....gimme some. b:chuckle) The only real use it has is adding a little extra slap to people who want to hit you...and it's pretty hilarious watching people suicide by trying to kill you.

And by the way Tweakie...people used to run Warsoul outside BH....back when you got Warsoul gear via hard work and effort... v.v

what are u talking about i jsut have a +5 o-o

tweakz

I don't think anything in orange or colored text for that matter is worth reading so I skip it. ;-)

Yulk_owns - Lost City

tweakz wrote: »

I don't think anything in orange or colored text for that matter is worth reading so I skip it. ;-)

Even though you fail, I agree.

5.0 is overated, on most classes. On venoes, BMs and assassins, its ridiculously overpowered.

Jadsia - Lost City

tweakz wrote: »

I don't think anything in orange or colored text for that matter is worth reading so I skip it. ;-)

So can be said of post such as this written by tweakz. Try to show some shred of respect when replying to someone's post whether you disagree or agree with it. Belittling others, calling people trolls and what not and posting **** like this does you a great disservice and diminishes your credibility.

Perhaps many of us find using a colored text to make a point by point reply within a long quote adds a great deal of clarity in contrast to a long quote and a single long or short reply at the end of the quote.

tweakz

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

So can be said of post such as this written by tweakz. Try to show some shred of respect when replying to someone's post whether you disagree or agree with it. Belittling others, calling people trolls and what not and posting **** like this does you a great disservice and diminishes your credibility.

Perhaps many of us find using a colored text to make a point by point reply within a long quote adds a great deal of clarity in contrast to a long quote and a single long or short reply at the end of the quote.

Could you whine and blat in a PM pls?

Jadsia - Lost City

tweakz wrote: »

Could you whine and blat in a PM pls?

First of all if you interpret that that an insult then that's your problem and second You post in a public forum I will reply in a public forum.

Cy_clone - Heavens Tear

I see the Troll is well fed b:chuckle

tweakz

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

First of all if you interpret that that an insult then that's your problem and second You post in a public forum I will reply in a public forum.

But you're off topic dumb butt. It's pretty common knowledge that typing in caps, altering text colors on forums, derailing threads is rude. Carry on with the blatting. b:victory

Traz - Dreamweaver

tweakz wrote: »

but You're Off Topic Dumb Butt. It's Pretty Common Knowledge That Typing In Caps, Altering Text Colors On Forums, Derailing Threads Is Rude. Carry On With The Blatting. B:victory

Cool Story Bro

Born_Free - Harshlands

tweakz wrote: »

But you're off topic dumb butt. It's pretty common knowledge that typing in caps, altering text colors on forums, derailing threads is rude. Carry on with the blatting. b:victory

Tweakz, I hate to say this, but your thread DIED instantly the moment this was posted:

Yulk_Ownz wrote: »

tweakz is right, 5.0 is not broken unless they are veno, BM and assassin.

then again, your whole thread was nothing but pointless dribble since the moment it was created....trying to prove a very, very screwed up system wasn't screwed up with a class that was never supposed to even get APS? How cute.

w34kd0g

tweakz wrote: »

The limit to aps is 5, the limit to -ch is 0

I'll use veno as an example since that is my primary toon

atk rate
Claw - 1.43 /s
Venomous - .4/s

Claw is already 3-4x faster.

Now something pertinent here is that 4aps is considered "perma spark (eruption)" which increases atk rate by 25% (demon) making 4.0 similar to 5, (or the advantage -int or eruption dwindles after 4aps). For the sake of argument, I'm going to assume that if the devs balanced other things; then they balanced the benefit of spark eruptions also (aside from the loss of gain after 4.0). Considering this; I think it's more fair to compare to 4.0 since mages appear to have better skills to gain chi while not in battle. Claw started at 3-4x faster and ends effectively 4-5x faster.

0ch may be far reaching. Channeling doesn't get exponential gains and it's not as limited (we have -ch ornaments with potential of -18ch ea). We can get close to and obtain 0ch via RB, pots, and another Cleric skill.

How hard per hit? -Deicide (most common weapon for -int) starts off at a mere 498-673 while something like Dragonhunt Axes start at 646-1508, and the Dragonhunts refine much better. I think it's clear to say that to get 5.0: you must take a big hit in patk (also to note here is that lower atk/hit at same dps increases repair cost). The Neon Purgatory (comparable mage weapon) starts at Magical attack: 914-933. Sure, matk doesn't refine as good, BUT we get weapon atk multiplied in our skills: +500% weapon atk for many Wiz AoE's, +300% for Veno Nova, +100% for Venemous etc.

BMs, and Assassins seemed to have better dps from the start, and 5.0 (or 4) keeps them at their rough % advantage which helps them tank. If there is a problem with 5.0 and their superior dps/ hardiness: then there was a problem from the start!

There is no problem really. They have and always had an advantage at 1-1 but it comes with disadvantages. When a mage refines their weapon: it benefits both AoE and 1-1. A 4/5.0 BM would want to use multiple weapons or focus on one (high cost with refining or limitation). Mages are able to kill w/o getting hit or even before a 5aps can reach the target (KS): Mages can focus more on matk than def/ hp. Mages have much lower repair bills (savings that can go back into character). Mages can range tank with full power (get hit much lighter/ less frequently with mag only).

Not sure about this, but something maybe worth considering since a lot of people consider wizards UP: Imagine 1 wiz in a 4x 5aps squad with Frost Blade alone.:

With a base matk of 16k: that's 4k per hit *20/s or 80,000 raw dps just for the buff alone?

Cool story,bro.

Yulk_owns - Lost City

Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »

QQ!!!!!!

Which class?

Assassin? LOL!! Epic fail. If you really mean sins are not supposed to get APS, then again normal attacks as a sin instead of support / DD / kite is stupid, half agree.

BMs? Failer. If you really mean sins are not supposed to get APS, then you have no idea what you're talking about. Stun lock + 5.0 = OP?

Venoes? Failest. Even with 1.25 APS (2.05 with pets), they are still OP. Have you played a veno? I guess not. Pet heal maxed, ironwood scarab, amp, and melee mastery. Oh and tank pets, you won't even get hit!? I do not even really use ironwood scarab all the time on my veno. Venoes are not mages, like your fail psy, QQ more.

Qingzi - Harshlands

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

Venoes are not mages

I'd really like a roll of what you're smoking, dudette. Why would venos need MAGIC weapons for all their skills if they weren't a mage-class?

Comments like those show your true self.

_Hysteria_ - Dreamweaver

i approve of this thread, the entertainment value is over NINE THOUSAND........also, lol at venoes not being a mage class

WhiteVodoo - Raging Tide

Qingzi - Harshlands wrote: »

I'd really like a roll of what you're smoking, dudette. Why would venos need MAGIC weapons for all their skills if they weren't a mage-class?

Comments like those show your true self.

yo dogg, i dun even smoke, but i agree this time, i'd actually like to experience bein that fcked up, pass that shiznit this way.

Jadsia - Lost City

tweakz wrote: »

But you're off topic dumb butt. It's pretty common knowledge that typing in caps, altering text colors on forums, derailing threads is rude. Carry on with the blatting. b:victory

You complained about people typing in colors. I only replied to your off topic QQ about colors. If you want to call someone rude for derailing a thread go look in the mirror. b:laugh

Yulk_owns - Lost City

Qingzi - Harshlands wrote: »

I'd really like a roll of what you're smoking, dudette. Why would venos need MAGIC weapons for all their skills if they weren't a mage-class?

Comments like those show your true self.

*facepalm* what is fox form? Do you have enough IQ to know what does that do?