Proving that 5aps isn't broken

Naivety - Harshlands

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

If you can't afford R8 with that sale you certainly can't afford Nirvana.

Even R9 armor is not that much more expensive than Nirvana if you got some of the medals from DQ points

However you can grind Nirvana. O wait, no, mage classes cant, silly me.

Hell even I cant farm Nirvana. I not good enough because of my low APS. Win b:victory

tweakz

Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »

I DARE you to go to the Wizard or Psychic forums and claim that they don't need Nirvana gear.

Why would I? -Lack reading comprehension much? Rant much? -stopped reading early on.

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

If you can't afford R8 with that sale you certainly can't afford Nirvana.

Even R9 armor is not that much more expensive than Nirvana if you got some of the medals from DQ points

Sorry, I thought the whole Nirvana deal was about being able to get in squads for it. Here's how I got my Nirvana Sleeves and Pants: bought the TT90 **** (I skipped using and bought just to make Nirvana), bought the TT99 mats, manufactured TT99, and bought the unannies to skip all the way to Tier 2: all with coin. I didn't farm TT and ran less than 20 Nirvanas, I found other things to be more profitable and fun than Nirvana.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Naivety - Harshlands wrote: »

However you can grind Nirvana. O wait, no, mage classes cant, silly me.

Hell even I cant farm Nirvana. I not good enough because of my low APS. Win b:victory

Then where did your 60m Lunar Wep come from that all robes seem to have before the sale? For 12m more that's R8 right there. If you had gold stocked up before that sale, it's even cheaper. You have no idea just how cheap R8 was those past few weeks did you?

Clearly robes being SO poor from not being able to farm at all is not the case here from how many R8 wizards we're seeing.

tweakz

Out of the small amount of Nirvana runs I've had; the smoothest were set up by a Wiz. I'd gladly run it with him, and he uses rank equips.

Jadsia - Lost City

tweakz wrote: »

Please read the thread and catch up. Wiz, Psych don't need Nirvana. They have their strengths, it's just people like you ignore them.

LOL!!! I played the game long enough to see many wizards and psychics want in on nirvana squads however if you took the time to comprehend my statement you would have realized that I mentioned BH, HH, frost, etc along with nirvana too. Also, players do not farm nirvana just for the gears, they farm to sell the mats. Please do tell us all that wizards and psychics are not interested in farming an instance, maybe nirvana for example, for mats to sell.

Again your argument is so seriously flawed it's nonsense.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Who would exclude robes from BH, Frost? That's just out of stupidity. I can understand HH though since not enough DD for 3-x = failed runs.

Naivety - Harshlands

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Then where did your 60m Lunar Wep come from that all robes seem to have before the sale? For 12m more that's R8 right there. If you had gold stocked up before that sale, it's even cheaper. You have no idea just how cheap R8 was those past few weeks did you?

Clearly robes being SO poor from not being able to farm at all is not the case here from how many R8 wizards we're seeing.

What they said. Rank 8 was cheap (My sin has it) but its still not everything and still doesnt get mage types in Nirvana squads.

Again, im not saying its impossible, but its a hell of a lot harder for a +12 R8 wiz to get in than a 5APS +2 phail demon sin.

And my Wand came from a pack, back when I was capable of putting money in the game.

I still do, just incredibly rarely now

How ddid you know I had a wand? Stalking my Cleric? :O

prof

Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »

I DARE you to go to the Wizard or Psychic forums and claim that they don't need Nirvana gear. Hell, you don't even have to, I'll do it for you. I'm all curious about the answers now.

what? we don't. nobody needs nirvana, it's just something to have. you don't even need nirvana to hit 5/s. b:bye

Okeano - Harshlands

5 APS isn't broken. It works just fine, on killing squishes in less than a sec. b:victory

Quilue - Sanctuary

But think about it, what is the +2 fail sin getting into Nirvana for? To get 2nd cast leggings for 5.0 so he can farm more? What? Really?

If you have a +12 R8 wiz, do you still need Nirvana?

Look this is what people were complaining about:

"Nirvana is SO GOOD, but we can't get into Nirvana squads to farm this."

Now R8 rolls out, cheaper than ****, and R8 Nature Talker has 100 less wep damage than Sandy World at +12. Similarly, +12 Bow of the Demonhunter has 100 less wep damage than +12 Jaden Emperor's Defiance. First cast doesn't even compare. How many months of farming was it to get a second cast Nirvana wep? How many "APS farmers" actually managed to get such a second cast wep on your server from the instance's release til now? Do you still need to farm Nirvana at this stage? Holding a weapon that's very comparable to second cast Nirvana already?

R8 like...rickrolled all the APS farmers in an instant.

Of course, people still want coins for their whatever needs...but my point is, there isn't that much difference between the class' standing in this game with respect to each other at this time. Grinding mobs right now...is probably comparable to an average Nirvana run ATM...considering R8 wep with Jone's Blessing...

Naivety - Harshlands

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

But think about it, what is the +2 fail sin getting into Nirvana for? To get 2nd cast leggings for 5.0 so he can farm more? What? Really?

If you have a +12 R8 wiz, do you still need Nirvana?

Look this is what people were complaining about:

"Nirvana is SO GOOD, but we can't get into Nirvana squads to farm this."

Now R8 rolls out, cheaper than ****, and R8 Nature Talker has 100 less wep damage than Sandy World at +12. Similarly, +12 Bow of the Demonhunter has 100 less wep damage than +12 Jaden Emperor's Defiance. First cast doesn't even compare. How many months of farming was it to get a second cast Nirvana wep? How many "APS farmers" actually managed to get such a second cast wep on your server from the instance's release til now? Do you still need to farm Nirvana at this stage? Holding a weapon that's very comparable to second cast Nirvana already?

R8 like...rickrolled all the APS farmers in an instant.

Of course, people still want coins for their whatever needs...but my point is, there isn't that much difference between the class' standing in this game with respect to each other at this time. Grinding mobs right now...is probably comparable to an average Nirvana run ATM...considering R8 wep with Jone's Blessing...

Armor is important becauses lol, you need to defend against those R8 hits. How do people overlook this? Nirvana offers armor, VERY GOOD armor that refines better than damn near everything else ingame. And also offers some bonuses which are pretty nice if you put in some effort.

Without going into shards, helm, belt neck and rings aside R8 ring, and yes +10 armor is a bit extreme but its to show point.

R8er Wiz wearing Full Lunar Gold Armor All +10:

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=71e241728f19a8a9
4966HP
9% channel
1137Pdef
Low HP due to no other gears but still.


R8er Wiz wearing Full Lunar-Nirvana Armor All +10:

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=14d8d79e13150640

5890HP
15% Channel
1408PDef
Nice 5Atk level bonus.
HP is miles better and only 4 pieces of Armor changed.
PDef has increased by well over an expensive Garnet and MDef gain means that other Wizards R8 Gush aint gonna hurt so bad, Especially when youve got another 1700HP buffer between you and going to town.

APS Classes are not interested in Full Nirvana sets of Armor, at all, but Casters and most Barbs damn well are, yet we (they) have quite a lot of trouble getting the squads they need.

I still want full Nirvana (Not Int built) but its gonna take me a millenium to get it. Im kinda hoping the new stuff in the expansion is not a "Nirvana to Nirvana" like Nirvana is to TT and Lunar.

EDIT :
Forgot link lol.

Fist_Mama - Harshlands

okey ill admit it is broken but why are you complaining? people paid money for there character to be like this. you all can spend money and be 5aps as well if you really wanted to. so stop complaining because you can be 5aps too.

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

Fist_Mama - Harshlands wrote: »

okey ill admit it is broken but why are you complaining? people paid money for there character to be like this. you all can spend money and be 5aps as well if you really wanted to. so stop complaining because you can be 5aps too.

no i cant be 5aps. demon spark doesnt give my physical attack bonus anyway.

Jadsia - Lost City

Fist_Mama - Harshlands wrote: »

okey ill admit it is broken but why are you complaining? people paid money for there character to be like this. you all can spend money and be 5aps as well if you really wanted to. so stop complaining because you can be 5aps too.

LOL you admit it broke but so what because you think everyone can have 5APS?

While I totally agree that cash shoppers deserve to have advantages over non cash shoppers (because they pay to keep the game online and developed and etc) not every class has skills that make 5 APS work for them. Can you imagine a 5 APS wizard, psychic, veno, cleric, etc? That would totally Nerf their skills since aps gear is melee. I mean, nobody would invite a 5 aps cleric into a nirvana squad - ROTFL.

Come on - Geezuz. Fix it so we can get some balance into the game. Eliminate the permaspark by adding a longer cooldown maybe 90 to 120 second cooldown.

If the devs did that I would laugh at all the QQ from the APS since that nerf would essentially affect all classes and not just them. LOL.

Born_Free - Harshlands

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

While I totally agree that cash shoppers deserve to have advantages over non cash shoppers (because they pay to keep the game online and developed and etc) not every class has skills that make 5 APS work for them. Can you imagine a 5 APS wizard, psychic, veno, cleric, etc? That would totally Nerf their skills since aps gear is melee. I mean, nobody would invite a 5 aps cleric into a nirvana squad - ROTFL.

100000000000000000% Agreed.

But Jadsia?


....Tweakz is an APS Venomancer, and he doesn't think APS is a problem at all! So, he must be right, I mean come on! [/sarcasm]


OKE! Make me a bloody sandwitch you lazy, lazy thing you!

Tamias - Archosaur

Naivety - Harshlands wrote: »

Talks of Lunar armors she will never get QQ

b:surrender GL getting Lunar runs on Archo-everyone and their mothers are Rank babies they're been pampered on this shizz nizz.

I had a hard as hell time getting my Lunar top and the only real person farming and making a market for Lunar on there is guess what? A 5 APS BM =.=

Quilue - Sanctuary

Naivety - Harshlands wrote: »

Armor is important becauses lol, you need to defend against those R8 hits. How do people overlook this? Nirvana offers armor, VERY GOOD armor that refines better than damn near everything else ingame. And also offers some bonuses which are pretty nice if you put in some effort.

Without going into shards, helm, belt neck and rings aside R8 ring, and yes +10 armor is a bit extreme but its to show point.

R8er Wiz wearing Full Lunar Gold Armor All +10:

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=71e241728f19a8a9
4966HP
9% channel
1137Pdef
Low HP due to no other gears but still.


R8er Wiz wearing Full Lunar-Nirvana Armor All +10:

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=14d8d79e13150640

5890HP
15% Channel
1408PDef
Nice 5Atk level bonus.
HP is miles better and only 4 pieces of Armor changed.
PDef has increased by well over an expensive Garnet and MDef gain means that other Wizards R8 Gush aint gonna hurt so bad, Especially when youve got another 1700HP buffer between you and going to town.

APS Classes are not interested in Full Nirvana sets of Armor, at all, but Casters and most Barbs damn well are, yet we (they) have quite a lot of trouble getting the squads they need.

I still want full Nirvana (Not Int built) but its gonna take me a millenium to get it. Im kinda hoping the new stuff in the expansion is not a "Nirvana to Nirvana" like Nirvana is to TT and Lunar.

EDIT :
Forgot link lol.

Nobody wears Lunar Gold, Lunar sucks for all classes except maybe the robe for casters. No set bonus, not a lot of hp adds. Yeah that's great, compare something that costs probably less than 100m put together to something that costs 100m for just one piece. Maybe you can use the extra money to make up for the pdef and hp difference.

but anyways

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=c0fe5ee7495b3664

TT99 has more similar adds to 2nd cast Nirv. Same -chan as well. Arcane armor refines horrifically, it's really not worth upgrading to something that expensive unless you have the money to fully refine and shard that, which, if you don't, you really shouldn't be looking into Nirvana in the first place.

Arshies - Sanctuary

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Who said you were ever suppose to? Being able to spark as often doesn't make the two classes equal but everyone seems to think that.

Didn't you read the original post? Is comparing -channeling with 5.0 aps.
No one is talking about be equal, I never thought the two classes are or are going to be equal.

I told that even my -57%channeling gear and sage spark asap, you can't compare the damage inflicted from a magical caster against the 5.0aps damage.
They can spark around 4 times while I sparked once, and even if I could be able to spark same ammount of times my skills channeling is making the difference to be more slowest DD than a aps user.

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary

Now I own both a +12 nirvana axe and a +10 claw. Demon sparked, I do the same damage as my axe but attacks far faster with the added benefit of purify and 20% recovery of HP every few seconds. If that's not OP'ed, I don't know what is.
There is simply no comparison between casters and 5.0. 5.0 will always get argo no matter what. I've tried to tank using my +12 axe and can't even hold aggro vs. a 4.0 bm with +5 claws but can hold and maintain aggro from a rank 8 archer +10 in human form using my axes.

WhiteVodoo - Raging Tide

seriously, is everyone really debating that having a melee class hit 5 times in one second is or isn't overpowered. 5 TIMES IN ONE SECOND. shouldn't that just be enough said? sure, if you're a melee user, it's fckn great, but for magic users, its instant death in pvp...

i mean seriously, does any magic user honestly feel as tho they have a chance agenst an assassin that pops outta the shadows right next ta you, stuns you, and then can hit you 5 times per second?

or maybe a bm with the jump forward skill that can hit you at 5 attacks per second?

how about a full vit barb with dual axes that has such a high hp amount that even tho your attacks can do serious damage to him, he'll be able ta get close ta you. normally at that point, it would be a fair fight, but now he can hit you 5 times a second.

sure, these people can miss you, but yer a fckn magic user, even if you wear light armor, you don't exactly have high enough evasion to evade anything.

maybe i'm just a noob who's common sence is alil outta wack, idk, but if so, please explain to me, if a melee user can hit you 5 times a second, then wtf is the spell casting equivalent of that? did i miss that update?

Quilue - Sanctuary

The spell casting equivalent of APS in PvP is to one shot some "APS BM" with say, a Sand Storm crit from 30 meters away wielding a R8 magic sword with Jone's Blessing.

tweakz

WhiteVodoo - Raging Tide wrote: »

seriously, is everyone really debating that having a melee class hit 5 times in one second is or isn't overpowered. 5 TIMES IN ONE SECOND. shouldn't that just be enough said? sure, if you're a melee user, it's fckn great, but for magic users, its instant death in pvp...

OMG! A buttefly flaps it's wings 5* a second! -It's going to keel me!

i mean seriously, does any magic user honestly feel as tho they have a chance agenst an assassin that pops outta the shadows right next ta you, stuns you, and then can hit you 5 times per second?

A magic user can cast a stun or devastating AoE from a distance before the 5aps is even close.

how about a full vit barb with dual axes that has such a high hp amount that even tho your attacks can do serious damage to him, he'll be able ta get close ta you. normally at that point, it would be a fair fight, but now he can hit you 5 times a second.

But what if he misses 5x a sec?

sure, these people can miss you, but yer a fckn magic user, even if you wear light armor, you don't exactly have high enough evasion to evade anything.

Magic users? Barb should be dead in 1 hit.

Jadsia - Lost City

tweakz wrote: »

OMG! A buttefly flaps it's wings 5* a second! -It's going to keel me!



A magic user can cast a stun or devastating AoE from a distance before the 5aps is even close.



But what if he misses 5x a sec?



Magic users? Barb should be dead in 1 hit.

1) Butterflies have nothing to do with this dicussion. Just an attempt to dodge a point.

2) A Magic caster has to be able to target someone before they are able to stun or use a devastating AoE- Not much use against a sin that can come out of stealth and stun lock a victim and permaspark them to death with 5 aps before they have any time to react. Any kind of lag time at all would prevent any kind of defense.

3) Misses 5 times a second? Come on, LOL.

I have been around long enough to see how this game has evolved to know that a permaspark situation is an unintended consequence that people like you are exploiting at the expense of other non-aps classs. I have seen updates, expansions before that had similar unintended consequences that have been "nerfed" because of those who choose to exploit them as well as forum debates whether it should have been fixed or not.

It's been because of exploiters of these unintended consequences cause imbalances in gameplay in various ways that force the devs to 'fix' them so if the APS does (which I believe eventually will) get nerfed you will know who to blame.

tweakz

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

It's been because of exploiters of these unintended consequences cause imbalances in gameplay in various ways that force the devs to 'fix' them so if the APS does (which I believe eventually will) get nerfed you will know who to blame.

You're just trolling, not making points. People complain about imbalances in any game where there are characters with different abilities. You say unintended but produce a source for it?

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

You're just trolling, not making points. People complain about imbalances in any game where there are characters with different abilities. You say unintended but produce a source for it?

Sorry Who is trolling is you. You just turn over your class(veno) and started playing APS class so?

Knownase - Heavens Tear

If you can't kill the -int user before they get all in your face, you should deserve to die in PvP.


If an -int user can't get to a mag user, they should deserve to die in PvP.

As for the methods of achieving one of those goals, it can be anything, even simple running. rofl...

Btw, talking about even-geared, refines, sharding, etc, etc individuals in this situation.

Evanera - Heavens Tear

Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you can't kill the -int user before they get all in your face, you should deserve to die in PvP.


If an -int user can't get to a mag user, they should deserve to die in PvP.

As for the methods of achieving one of those goals, it can be anything, even simple running. rofl...

Btw, talking about even-geared, refines, sharding, etc, etc individuals in this situation.

So, if I can't see a stealthed sin standing beside me I deserve to die?

Tamias - Archosaur

Evanera - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So, if I can't see a stealthed sin standing beside me I deserve to die?

^ this

Its not my fault I cant see the instant one shot "teleport into me" **** where it shows no damage and who I was killed by.

However I hope we're only talking about seeable APS because stealthed APS is a whole other monster of its own...

Quilue - Sanctuary

If you got one shot by a sin from stealth the problem is obviously not +APS gears

Knownase - Heavens Tear

Yea, I was talking about visible APS users. lol


Sins are just a different story....