Force Stealth Nerf

DaKillanator - Raging Tide · October 2010

stay on topic please, thank you b:kiss

Durdey - Harshlands · October 2010

Agreed, most of these nabs just sit there and complain complain complain. "My class isnt better than yours, so I request them to get nurfed!!!!"

You guys can take your suggestions and shove them up your... ask me if I care.

Every time I see one of these threads, no matter HOW hard they try to not QQ in it... I see nothing but QQQQQQQQQQ QQQQ QQQQQQQ QQQQQQ QQQQQ QQQQQQ QQQQ QQQQ.

To those saying "Well on the game called *(Insert some stupid game here)* The sins arent able to do a lot of that stuff that they can do on PWI. Well TOUGH LUCK BUDDY! U like the way they do their game? Then go play their game! Maybe because your desired class on that game isn't so easily destroyed like a little *****!

GO AHEAD GO PLAY "THAT" GAME!!! I don't freakin care about you. You're on a different server anyways.

Why am I bitter? Why do I sound as if I'm an annoying little *****? Because I am. I wont lie. I'm possibly one of the most EVIL players on the game you will ever come across. (I'm a pretty mild person in real life tho) After hearing tons and tons of people cry about getting PK'ed... I got tired of listening to them and consoleing them. I got tired of someone beating me and having that last laugh. So I did the thing I wanted to do, became a MAN! Leveled up! and Became BETTER than the people I wanted to beat.

I suggest that if you WANT to be good at PVP... Don't do "Casual PVP". If you're going to do it right, go all out! I CAN BE BEATEN! I've been dominated by every class. I've dominated EVERY CLASS. It's not about if the other person has a better list of skill options, it's about if you can use your options better than them.

Quit being such a freaking pansey and man the hell up!

Durdey - Harshlands · October 2010

Shadow Escape is NOT OP.

IT IS NOT OP.

OP is when someone has a dominating factor over you.
Surviability is when you can SURVIVE an ATTACK.

If I'm in stealth, I'm not getting attacked.
If im in stealth, I CANNOT attack anyone.

LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR.

I CAN NOT KILL YOU WHILE I AM INVISIBLE!

OMG RLY!!?!?!?

This skill is FAR from OP.
The ONLY thing I can do with this skill is "Get Away" and "Stalk" someone.

Last I checked, RUNNING AWAY BETTER THAN OTHER GUYS IS NOT OP! LMAO

SlashSin - Lost City · October 2010

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

Just wanna start by saying this isnt a QQ thread.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

start by saying this isnt a QQ thread.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

saying this isnt a QQ thread.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

this isnt a QQ thread.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

isnt a QQ thread.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

QQ thread.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

QQ

b:chuckle

Joshcja - Sanctuary · October 2010

look another sins are op topic

yes they are 100% but its not any one skill that makes them that way its a mix of all the different skills that make it that way

tbh if any skill where to be removed to "balance" sins i would take inner harmony

yes they can still ninjagank and have a minimum 10% chance to avoid any stat effect to stop em escapeing (33% would be the norm 50% the max) yes they can do this every minute

but w/o inner actually killing you and keeping up chi becomes an issue

would still let the class function and do everything it could in pve/pvp before but would place sins on an even footing with the target after the initial stun

my 2 bits

(yes you can kill everyone and be killed okeano but you can kill every other class on a higher % ratio in any given situation with = gear and skill makeing you a better class thus in need of balanceng)

Durdey - Harshlands · October 2010

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

yes they are 100% but its not any one skill that makes them that way its a mix of all the different skills that make it that way

tbh if any skill where to be removed to "balance" sins i would take inner harmony

my 2 bits

omfg. are you serious? You contradict yourself....

You must get pwnd by sins a lot.

I can tell, otherwise you... a BM... wouldn't be complaining.

Durdey - Harshlands · October 2010

Lets keep off the OP balance issue of other styles. We're talking about forced stealth here now.

And as i just explained.

Running away better than any other class on the server... NOT OP.

We cant hit while in stealth.
We can get hit while in stealth.

NOT OP

Evanera - Heavens Tear · October 2010

You're a nobody, stop talking :P

Durdey - Harshlands · October 2010

Evanera - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You're a nobody, stop talking :P

I'm sure you wont be able to world chat "I hate Durdey" on the Harshlands server without getting 5+ replies on either my location, or agreement of the hatred towards me.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide · October 2010

Durdey - Harshlands wrote: »

I'm sure you wont be able to world chat "I hate Durdey" on the Harshlands server without getting 5+ replies on either my location, or agreement of the hatred towards me.

from your post and what you've said of yourself, it seems your problem isnt with force stealth. It seems your just a sad man that is scared for sticking up for himself in real life, so he pk's people on a game, behind a computer screen and inflates his own ego by stating he's well known, etc etc.

Knews flash- I got a psy on HL, and I've never heard of you once. Sorry

Now stop posting if you wont stay on topic.

oh and dont bother trying to flame me, I'm guna use my forum force stealth, so you cant flame me b:laugh

we can flame eachother later if I want us to, and of course when all my insults are cooled down. God forbid you begin to win the flame war, I'll have to forum force stealth again b:shocked

sleepcat · October 2010

Durdey - Harshlands wrote: »

QQQQQQQQQQQQQ. Please don't nerf Sins because I only know how to play an OP class. QQQQQQQQ.

That about sums up what you're saying.

Manakel - Lost City · October 2010

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

lol, your funny.

Blink= 25meters. Not much. Holy path? you can have that too. Unless I'm 25-50 meters from a SZ, you'll jus holy path with me, and tele stun. so no.
plume shell...as in a cleric move...as in a class thats infamous for being owned by assassins...I'm sorry, but if you cant own a cleric your lvl from stealth, then you're a fail sin that doesnt deserve the kill.
Bm stun then get away? sure, but holy path catches that easy.

but that's all irrelevent because this is how it works with sins: sin attacks out of stealth and a) owns target, or b) doesnt own target, gets knocked down to no health, regenerates 20%, and force stealths. No one but the sin ever runs. You either get owned, or make the sin run away.

one last big difference you may have noticed: YOU CAN STILL BE RAN DOWN AND KILLED. If I blink/HP away, you can still catch me. If I plume shell and sleep you, you can still hunt me down. If I stun you and sprint, you can still catch me.
but force stealth? you're gone. nothing left. whispers in the wind. Your not a moving target that I have to keep up with. You're a non existant target that I cant even lock on
to.

During the time you're running away you can pot/ food/ let your charm cool off. Now a smart sin would heal as well, but remember- you'd have a short range advantage, our teles have cooldowns. Use that time to immobilize us. (since a lot of sins will maze step at the start of combat). And I actually agree with making self-focused aoes untargeted.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide · October 2010

Manakel - Lost City wrote: »

During the time you're running away you can pot/ food/ let your charm cool off. Now a smart sin would heal as well, but remember- you'd have a short range advantage, our teles have cooldowns. Use that time to immobilize us. (since a lot of sins will maze step at the start of combat). And I actually agree with making self-focused aoes untargeted.

If running away is so great, why not remove force stealth? You make it sound fun b:chuckle

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · October 2010

Deora - Lost City wrote: »

Its always the people on carebear servers that complain the most about PvP... you don't see a giant influx of complaints like this all the damn time from LC or Ghostlands do you? PvP complaints alwayyyyyyyyyyssssssssss come from carebear servers...

I heard PVP is dead on LC and harshlands is a ghost town.

Manakel - Lost City wrote: »

During the time you're running away you can pot/ food/ let your charm cool off. Now a smart sin would heal as well, but remember- you'd have a short range advantage, our teles have cooldowns. Use that time to immobilize us. (since a lot of sins will maze step at the start of combat). And I actually agree with making self-focused aoes untargeted.

It's really too hard to run away from a sin.. they have 2 stuns, a sleep, a 9second paralyze (on a 15s cooldown), a seal, and 2 35 meter teleports. You can use apothecary and genie to break out of it but thats when sins use force stealth and just wait a few seconds so those things are on cooldown. Even if you do manage to attack (the sin has to be bad for this to happen) they have 25% chance to take 1 damage and are immune to being 1 shot. Combine this with 4aps +12 daggers and you will realize that sins are broken in 1v1 pk.

Everyone knows it but there isn't much reason to discuss it since devs don't care much about balance issues or fixing bugs. Denying there is a balance issue gives far too much credit to the devs (these are the same devs that havent been able to fix the magic shell buff for years).

Durdey - Harshlands · October 2010

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

from your post and what you've said of yourself, it seems your problem isnt with force stealth. It seems your just a sad man that is scared for sticking up for himself in real life, so he pk's people on a game, behind a computer screen and inflates his own ego by stating he's well known, etc etc.

Knews flash- I got a psy on HL, and I've never heard of you once. Sorry

Now stop posting if you wont stay on topic.

oh and dont bother trying to flame me, I'm guna use my forum force stealth, so you cant flame me b:laugh

we can flame eachother later if I want us to, and of course when all my insults are cooled down. God forbid you begin to win the flame war, I'll have to forum force stealth again b:shocked

Of all the silly little grammar errors you could have made... that one in red just makes you look like an idiot.

As far as Real Life Vs Game Life goes, I keep them separate, but then again, that's off topic. If my Real life was affected by my game persona, then I would have some serious mental issues. I don't mix them, and for you to mention anything about the mix of them making up me as a person... tells me a LOT about you. Apparently you're mixing real life and game life into one. I highly suggest you take a break from the game and get your priorities straight. It's a game. Treat it like such or realize that you will have some SERIOUS mental issues in the future that simple therapy will not be able to overcome.

As far as my popularity goes, Ive been on and off inactive for the past few months. As I said, If you do a World Chat mentioning your hate of me, YOU WILL GET RESPONSES.

Just because your blue name lowbie character has never heard of me, doesn't put me low on that list of popularity. I am INFAMOUS. My popularity was created not by my escalated in-game ego, but by my immoral In-Game actions.

I am not QQing you silly little troll.So take your troll *** back to your cave and bring something useful to this thread next time.

If anything I'm laughing at the QQ that most of this thread is made up of.
Especially the part where you're QQ-Rageing about how awesome a sin gets to RUN AWAY from a fight.

ANYONE CAN PULL IT OFF! IT'S CALLED SAFEZONE YOU IDIOT! Want to fight like a sin and be able to End the battle at your leisure? Fight near a safezone, and become that "SafeZone Hero" That pops in and out of safezone as they please to fight.

This game is FAR FROM ROCKET SCIENCE!

I will say it again, FORCED STEALTH IS NOT OP!
RUNNING AWAY BETTER THAN ANY OTHER CLASS IS NOT OP!

Get your priorities straight... The only AWESOME thing about being a Sin is how wicked it is to PVE Solo Grind on it... And with all the Hypers and Oracles out there... Who grinds anymore?

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · October 2010

Durdey - Harshlands wrote: »

Bla bla bla

Posting in all caps, insulting others, and being off-topic are not allowed.

Born_Free - Harshlands · October 2010

Durdey - Harshlands wrote: »

blah blah blah

Sin saying sins are not OP?
Number one rule of defending case...never be your own lawyer.

(And just so you know Durd....You're not infamous. I've seen you maybe once? That was when you popped up behind me and killed me what, 30 levels ago? Please. You're not J honey.)

kenlee · October 2010

Durdey - Harshlands wrote: »

I'm sure you wont be able to world chat "I hate Durdey" on the Harshlands server without getting 5+ replies on either my location, or agreement of the hatred towards me.

im sure you're no threat anymore, some players learned to defend themselves against sin.. its not like when people knew nothing about them. even anti_matter is not a big threat but its annoying when people disappear if they cant kill the other player... that shadow escape should use a spark imo not to give one. you already have high atk speed to get chi plus rising dragon/inner harmony.

Conavar - Heavens Tear · October 2010

Durdey - Harshlands wrote: »

and become that "SafeZone Hero" That pops in and out of safezone as they please to fight.

Are not all Sins SZ hero's ? ( Stealth being their SZ )

Just saying

Manakel - Lost City · October 2010

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I heard PVP is dead on LC and harshlands is a ghost town.

It's really too hard to run away from a sin.. they have 2 stuns, a sleep, a 9second paralyze (on a 15s cooldown), a seal, and 2 35 meter teleports. You can use apothecary and genie to break out of it but thats when sins use force stealth and just wait a few seconds so those things are on cooldown. Even if you do manage to attack (the sin has to be bad for this to happen) they have 25% chance to take 1 damage and are immune to being 1 shot. Combine this with 4aps +12 daggers and you will realize that sins are broken in 1v1 pk.

Everyone knows it but there isn't much reason to discuss it since devs don't care much about balance issues or fixing bugs. Denying there is a balance issue gives far too much credit to the devs (these are the same devs that havent been able to fix the magic shell buff for years).

This is all assuming max skills for the sin. And from what I've seen of other sins pvping, it's fairly easy to kill us if a skill misses (not often, but often enough for it to matter). Most sins IIRC don't get 3/4/5 aps until 90s- and then only if they're really rich, until then bms and barbs have no trouble with us- casters won't either if they attack first with a silence/sleep/stun/immobilize.

@ the other guy: let's also remove then one of your most useful skills, you're a wiz so... How about stone barrier? As I said before, I'd gladly have aoes changed- hell, remove the spark we get too. Maybe its cause I don't cs, but going from a cleric to a sin to a veno, I really don't see how sins are op.

Sneakret - Heavens Tear · October 2010

b:chuckle I almost feel bad for some of you,

on our care bear server, I only get to go out and pk on occasion, and the only time I use Shadow Escape is to a) get a spark or b) avoid getting ***** by 6 people at once.

If I leave sz, I'm out to kill someone or be killed, I will not waste my time near a safe zone with a bunch of panzy asses nor return to one without being dead/resetting sl.

That's just me though, I'd gladly hand off that skill for a constant AoE or a Tome of Unimaginable Awesome with -.9 interval giving all classes the opt for 5aps so I can wear interesting armor not just this fugly *** **** with - interval

Teppeii - Dreamweaver · October 2010

Rawr. Finally someone isn't QQing and is offering something worthwhile to read.

I wholeheartedly believe sins are broken in 1v1 PvP. Unless you can survive their initial stunlock and one shot them afterwords they either kill you while stunned or just disappear when the situation gets too hot and come back to tick your charm later.

Not too long ago I had a 7x or so sin who was just hellbent on beating me. I swear for like a half hour he would pop out of stealth, stun and hit some weak crits, force stealth when I got out of stunlock and hit him, and repeat repeat repeat. It was so annoying >>

I really don't see how force stealth could even sound like a good idea. It reeks of OPness. If you're about to die you should just suck it up instead of running away like a coward.

Fleuri - Sanctuary · October 2010

Euphy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Oldest Suggestion Ever:

I think that certain AoEs should not require a target.

Like, perhaps, level 1 earthquake?

b:chuckle

LOKl_ - Harshlands · October 2010

EHHH to many points on history and ninja's...

The word assasin derives from Hessansin (don't think I spelled that right) They were a tool in the ancient babylon (modern day Iran and Iraq) governement to commit political killings and or to kill the opposing general, king, commander whatever for the king.

Ninja's (coming from japan) were great warriors... The first ninja were actually handpicked from samurai (japanese warrior class) to be the emporer's... How should we say... Messengers. Even if a ninja failed to kill his target in the initial strike he still needed to be able to fight his way out (or defend from the failed target) and that is where the martial art NinJutsu comes from. (we have historical notes from this back in the 1800's forgot the name of the writer but there was a movie about it called the last samurai where a group of ninja attacked his capture's encampment and began killing and fighting every one, once the samurai realized what happened and regrouped. The ninja dissapeared)

Throughout history however when an assasin failed to kill his target he could not just go back... The point of the assasination attempt was to catch them offguard and vunerable. If that failed then and now the target would retreat with enhanced security and a new mindset to be weary of future attacks. Making another attempt that much more difficult if not impossible. For the failure the assasin would then themselves become the target and would be hunted by other assasins in there group. This is both written history as well as folklore about the subject going to kingdoms like persia, hindu, Japan, and the egyptians.
The japanese are the easiest to do the research on.. A failed attempt meant you dishonored yourself, your family name, the emporer, and the order that you answered you to. The only logical way to redeem your honor was to die by way of inserting a dagger in your stomach and pull it left to right as another removed your head.

Even modern assasins are looked at as messengers for the views being spoken by the one hiring or ideological (solo assasins)

Best way to put this one... When a sniper (best form of a modern day assasin) is given the order to fire his rifle at whatever target he is aiming at... They do not tell him fire... The order is SEND IT... Meaning to send the message.

Solandri - Heavens Tear · October 2010

Teppeii - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Not too long ago I had a 7x or so sin who was just hellbent on beating me. I swear for like a half hour he would pop out of stealth, stun and hit some weak crits, force stealth when I got out of stunlock and hit him, and repeat repeat repeat. It was so annoying >>

I really don't see how force stealth could even sound like a good idea. It reeks of OPness. If you're about to die you should just suck it up instead of running away like a coward.

Most games which implement a stealth mode reduce your movement speed while in stealth precisely to avoid this problem. That way combat initiative belongs to the stealther, but non-combat initiative remains with any potential targets. That is, while the stealther can pick when and where to attack, the non-stealther's decision to avoid combat and withdraw will always override that. This is the first game I've played which doesn't do this.

It's been proposed before to just let players target all AOEs at a location on the ground to try to flush out stealthed assassins. Kinda like dropping depth charges trying to hit a submerged submarine. One class should never be allowed 100% safety from another. If they're going to keep forced stealth, the way I'd do it is:

Stealth + standing still = as it's implemented right now.
Stealth + moving at walking speed = no bonus to stealth level. (Another class/mob of same level can see you. For mobs, give the regular stealth level bonus for walking anywhere but a 90 degree quadrant in front of them, so you can still sneak by higher level mobs as long as they aren't facing you.)
Steatlh + running = minus 2*run speed to stealth level. So if you run at 5.5 m/s, anyone 11 levels lower than you can see you in stealth.

DrunkWizard - Lost City · October 2010

nothing will be done anyways coz the more ppl who quit their mains n roll a overpowered sin = the more money pwe gains.

Edit so i dont double post :

Im still waiting to see the day everyone and i mean everyone on LC is a sin

west archo gate empty with every sin stealthing cannot see each other (lol) and once someone goes out of stealth all the other sins pawn him n force stealth again.

SgtSIaughter - Heavens Tear · October 2010

DrunkWizard - Lost City wrote: »

...once someone goes out of stealth all the other sins pawn him n force stealth again.

I lol'd.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide · October 2010

DrunkWizard - Lost City wrote: »

and once someone goes out of stealth all the other sins pawn him n force stealth again.

I see sins do this in duels as well lol. And it's no different on the carebear servers. Sin's stay in stealth outside arch and wait until an easy target in pk mode flys out of arch, then they stalk em b:laugh

Hi Crimson

Durdey - Harshlands · October 2010

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Posting in all caps, insulting others, and being off-topic are not allowed.

SHUDDUP!!!!!

Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »

Sin saying sins are not OP?
Number one rule of defending case...never be your own lawyer.

(And just so you know Durd....You're not infamous. I've seen you maybe once? That was when you popped up behind me and killed me what, 30 levels ago? Please. You're not J honey.)

I have FIRST HAND knowledge of being a sin, and being a venomancer. Reguardless of which one I am, people had QQ'ed endless threads like this about how the Class is OP. Venomancers have not been nurfed, but now that the game has a new enemy (sins) they're QQing about them. Maybe I should just accept that nabs such as yourself will QQ forever and still play the game. and Jlung earned his name by spending crazy money, having an OP barb, and using it the way he liked to play.

kenlee wrote: »

im sure you're no threat anymore, some players learned to defend themselves against sin.. its not like when people knew nothing about them. even anti_matter is not a big threat but its annoying when people disappear if they cant kill the other player... that shadow escape should use a spark imo not to give one. you already have high atk speed to get chi plus rising dragon/inner harmony.

I'm a Threat. With my sadistic in-game persona being so well developed into the PVP side of things, I still know how to rock people down. For example, the other day, dueled a BM that wouldn't shut up. I lost round 1, destroyed them in round 2 without taking any damage, and round 3... still destroyed them, but they got a few hits in. Then they QQ'ed about it, and said "you cant beat me when I have my charm, let's go out of SZ and fight."
I swear, some people are just born with that stupid gene where they says stupid things like that. They couldn't beat me on even grounds? So they offered a solution where they have an obvious advantage?

A sin is designed around one special skill... STEALTH. PWI made their version, don't like it? Don't let the door hit you on the way out. U want to beat a sin? Spend some REAL MONEY to up your gear, survive the first part of the attack, and take advantage of using a powerful weapon to One-Shot the sin... TWICE! Remember Free to Play, Pay to WIN!

Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Are not all Sins SZ hero's ? ( Stealth being their SZ )

Just saying

Sure, if that will shut you up.

Sneakret - Heavens Tear wrote: »

b:chuckle I almost feel bad for some of you,

on our care bear server, I only get to go out and pk on occasion, and the only time I use Shadow Escape is to a) get a spark or b) avoid getting ***** by 6 people at once.

If I leave sz, I'm out to kill someone or be killed, I will not waste my time near a safe zone with a bunch of panzy asses nor return to one without being dead/resetting sl.

That's just me though, I'd gladly hand off that skill for a constant AoE or a Tome of Unimaginable Awesome with -.9 interval giving all classes the opt for 5aps so I can wear interesting armor not just this fugly *** **** with - interval

Re-Roll on the PVP server. U would like it better. Annoying people... die...

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

I see sins do this in duels as well lol. And it's no different on the carebear servers. Sin's stay in stealth outside arch and wait until an easy target in pk mode flys out of arch, then they stalk em b:laugh

Hi Crimson

Do you have no self respect for yourself at all? I swear every damn word that you typed has involved an insane amount of QQ in it.

If a sin was out of stealth, sitting outside... Would you even leave safezone? Given that your carebear self isnt in PVE mode for the rest of your game-life.

You seem to talk as if you're an integral part of the PVP world... I researched you. You're not even NEAR the rankings list. Your opinion is about as useful as a water bucket with a hole at the bottom. You're just pissed that sins destroy you like the little cry baby that you are! You didn't even achieve the "Defeat 50 other players" on your wizzard! LEARN TO PLAY THE GAME TROLL BOY!

SgtSIaughter - Heavens Tear · October 2010

Durdey - Harshlands wrote: »

blahblahblah

You're clearly butt-hurt over this thread.

Force Stealth Nerf

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