Common Misconceptions

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  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I don't recall saying barbs who can't keep aggro off an arch or 5aps bm is a fail tank... but hey... call yourself whatever you want. But I do recall saying that its stupid for a tank to attempt to take aggro when there is a dd in squad perfectly capable of tanking (even quoted my post for you).
    A congratulation should be in order that you manage to hold aggro from a +10 wiz... now there is just a matter of all the +10 archers and +5 or above int bm/sins outs there. There is maybe what... a dozen or two +10 wizards out there. But guess what... there is hundreds of +10 or above archers... probably close to thousands of +5 or above int bm/sins. So you basically just spent the last 10 levels of your game play making a build thats capable to holding aggro from less then 5% of the dd population (when they are going all out). And guess what... if that said wizard can just tank... then all your effort for the past 10 levels just became useless.

    Here's your original post. It's doubtful (according to PWI figures) there are even 200 +10 Archers but just for argument's sake let's say there are. Along with your claimed figure of THOUSANDS of -int BMs (which apparently outnumber all other DD classes combined) this wouldn't make the figure of 95% of all DDs. What kind of freak are you? Do you usually say more than a couple when you mean three? You imply HUNDREDS as being a certainly larger figure, and since we were considering elegibility for a squad you also implied on the same server. This also doesn't address the exact challenge i worded which was proving 100 Archers with +10 weps on HT, and which you only just now object to have meant all servers. You could have raised the issue before but you didn't, rather the oposite you even claimed you made it clear you considered yourself to be below average. Which means you're below average amongst 19 other Archers you doorknob unless you consider players in other servers available to the same squads you're gearing for. Anyway you want to look at it you failed. Your claim is bull and you were called on it.

    Edit; And go back and look at the context in which you made such claims, clearly one server is implied and that is exactly what i very clearly stated on my challenge, which once again, you didn't object to, just stalled and chickened out of...
  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Here's your original post. It's doubtful (according to PWI figures) there are even 200 +10 Archers but just for argument's sake let's say there are. Along with your claimed figure of THOUSANDS of -int BMs (which apparently outnumber all other DD classes combined) this wouldn't make the figure of 95% of all DDs. What kind of freak are you? Do you usually say more than a couple when you mean three? You imply HUNDREDS as being a certainly larger figure, and since we were considering elegibility for a squad you also implied on the same server. This also doesn't address the exact challenge i worded which was proving 100 Archers with +10 weps on HT, and which you only just now object to have meant all servers. You could have raised the issue before but you didn't, rather the oposite you even claimed you made it clear you considered yourself to be below average. Which means you're below average amongst 19 other Archers you doorknob unless you consider players in other servers available to the same squads you're gearing for. Anyway you want to look at it you failed. Your claim is bull and you were called on it.

    Edit; And go back and look at the context in which you made such claims, clearly one server is implied and that is exactly what i very clearly stated on my challenge, which once again, you didn't object to, just stalled and chickened out of...

    Take a good look at the levels rankings... and you'll notice that only the top few from each servers show up. In fact I don't even show up on the levels rankings... only show up in the pk rankings.

    The all servers's archer ranking goes from 1 to 174... with level 103 being the highest and 96 being the lowest level archer. Sanct. (your server) sorted rankings goes from level 103 to level 101. So are you suggesting that there is NO archer on sanct with levels between 97 and 100?

    I told you to go look at the rankings so you can get an idea of the names of top people (in terms of pk). Not to make an even big *** out of yourself by saying that there is only 20 level 97 or 100+ archers on HT.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Take a good look at the levels rankings... and you'll notice that only the top few from each servers show up. In fact I don't even show up on the levels rankings... only show up in the pk rankings.

    The all servers's archer ranking goes from 1 to 174... with level 103 being the highest and 96 being the lowest level archer. Sanct. (your server) sorted rankings goes from level 103 to level 101. So are you suggesting that there is NO archer on sanct with levels between 97 and 100?

    I told you to go look at the rankings so you can get an idea of the names of top people (in terms of pk). Not to make an even big *** out of yourself by saying that there is only 20 level 97 or 100+ archers on HT.

    LIAR. Once again trying to weasel out. Why didn't you say so on your last post? And are you now back to claiming more than 100 active Archers with a +10 wep on HT? Because the PvP rankings only count 59 and since some are actually early 9x (there's even an 8x in there) not all of them have actually got +10 refines. And if you're going to qustion the ranking's accuracy then you shouldn't have brought it up. I'm only using it because you suggested that i should...

    Once again, the PvP ranking actually disproves your claim. And please if you're going to bother responding stick to one story. Now you're jumping from one foot to another trying to claim you haven't been proven wrong? So which is it? Did you mean your server or all servers?

    You're so pathetic... b:chuckle
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    LIAR. Once again trying to weasel out. Why didn't you say so on your last post? And are you now back to claiming more than 100 active Archers with a +10 wep on HT? Because the PvP rankings only count 59 and since some are actually early 9x (there's even an 8x in there) not all of them have actually got +10 refines. And if you're going to qustion the ranking's accuracy then you shouldn't have brought it up. I'm only using it because you suggested that i should...

    Once again, the PvP ranking actually disproves your claim. And please if you're going to bother responding stick to one story. Now you're jumping from one foot to another trying to claim you haven't been proven wrong? So which is it? Did you mean your server or all servers?

    You're so pathetic... b:chuckle

    How can you use the PvP rankings to determine how many people of a specific level range there are, or even who has what refines? According to PWI figures? The level rankings aren't even up to date, even if they were they don't show people who are 95+.

    There are people I don't even know that have +12 Nirvana weapons that show up every day, let alone a stupid +10 lvl 95 bow. There has to be at least 20 people with +10 Lunar bows that I know of personally. There's no way in hell that you can know everyone on a server.

    Up until today, I never thought there was a -90% channeling mage either. Well, guess what, there is one and he's been around for months... nobody's heard of him, yet he exists.

    Please tell me where I can find the data for that kind of info too?

    You're an idiot, a well spoken one which is atypical, but time after time your logic is absolutely horrible.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    How can you use the PvP rankings to determine how many people of a specific level range there are, or even who has what refines? According to PWI figures? The level rankings aren't even up to date, even if they were they don't show people who are 95+.

    There are people I don't even know that have +12 Nirvana weapons that show up every day, let alone a stupid +10 lvl 95 bow. There has to be at least 20 people with +10 Lunar bows that I know of personally. There's no way in hell that you can know everyone on a server.

    Up until today, I never thought there was a -90% channeling mage either. Well, guess what, there is one and he's been around for months... nobody's heard of him, yet he exists.

    Please tell me where I can find the data for that kind of info too?

    You're an idiot, a well spoken one which is atypical, but time after time your logic is absolutely horrible.

    Did i suggest the use of rankings? No, i didn't. Right from the start i would consider them an inaccurate way of reaching any conclussions about the player base. If you go back through my posts you'll realize i actually proposed a rather different aproach. But Kiyoshi himself suggested their use, i'm just taking things to their logical conclussion... Now, he seems unable to even keep his story straight about what his original position was...

    If you want to get the info yourself by all means be my guest, i even suggested a method and made things all too easy for him.

    And that you disagree with me doesn't make me an idiot, i've already explained i'm coming from the view of critical thinking and skeptical inquiry to settle what i believe to be a gross exageration. The point being the circumstances Kiyoshi describes are far from typical and he was wrong to use them to justify his OPINION venos without an herc are not competitive. I've already sufficiently proven his grasp for the concept of "average" to be delussional, this is merely a further exercise, i'll admit futile, in trying to get him to see the error of his ways. Your calling me an idiot is certainly uncalled for, especially if you won't settle the issue with information yourself. If you're looking to flame however, you know i'm always game.b:sin

    Although i would ask you to leave it for tomorrow since i do have plans for the evening, this girl i was out with on friday just called a while ago. b:victory
  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    LIAR. Once again trying to weasel out. Why didn't you say so on your last post? And are you now back to claiming more than 100 active Archers with a +10 wep on HT? Because the PvP rankings only count 59 and since some are actually early 9x (there's even an 8x in there) not all of them have actually got +10 refines. And if you're going to qustion the ranking's accuracy then you shouldn't have brought it up. I'm only using it because you suggested that i should...

    Once again, the PvP ranking actually disproves your claim. And please if you're going to bother responding stick to one story. Now you're jumping from one foot to another trying to claim you haven't been proven wrong? So which is it? Did you mean your server or all servers?

    You're so pathetic... b:chuckle

    Which part of what i said was a lie. I said to go look at the rankings to get a idea of what the top of each looks like. The rankings represent maybe and thats a big MAYBE 10% of the "elite" gears out there... but it will give you a gimp of what the elite gears looks like. The levels section rank maybe the top 30 of each server. and the pk only counts how many kills a certain player has... that has nothing to do with the refines of gears. A well refined player can have the levels and still not make the rankings... or have the gears and not pk (hence also won't be making the pk rankings). there is something really flawed with your logic.
    And just how am i trying to weasel out of anything... considering you are the one who just back tracked on your idea of 20 archers on HT.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Although i would ask you to leave it for tomorrow since i do have plans for the evening, this girl i was out with on friday just called a while ago. b:victory

    is it really necessary to announce multiple times on a forum that you can get dates. most of us just don't care and probably don't even believe you. from my personal experience its those who is without that'll keep on talking about it (in this case a girl) in a vain attempt to convince others. for those us who have... we don't need to prove **** to anyone else cause we know that we have... and our actions and appearance speaks louder then any jumble of words will.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Which part of what i said was a lie. I said to go look at the rankings to get a idea of what the top of each looks like. The rankings represent maybe and thats a big MAYBE 10% of the "elite" gears out there... but it will give you a gimp of what the elite gears looks like. The levels section rank maybe the top 30 of each server. and the pk only counts how many kills a certain player has... that has nothing to do with the refines of gears. A well refined player can have the levels and still not make the rankings... or have the gears and not pk (hence also won't be making the pk rankings). there is something really flawed with your logic.
    And just how am i trying to weasel out of anything... considering you are the one who just back tracked on your idea of 20 archers on HT.

    I didn't back track on anything. It's YOUR figures which i was using...

    And yes, you did in fact lie about what your original claim had been.

    So, can you please come clean about this? Is it HUNDREDS of Archers with +10 refines on your server or in all others?

    Remember the 100 figure was just an easy way for you to prove it. I was throwing you a bone.
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    And that you disagree with me doesn't make me an idiot, i've already explained i'm coming from the view of critical thinking and skeptical inquiry to settle what i believe to be a gross exageration. The point being the circumstances Kiyoshi describes are far from typical and he was wrong to use them to justify his OPINION venos without an herc are not competitive. I've already sufficiently proven his grasp for the concept of "average" to be delussional, this is merely a further exercise, i'll admit futile, in trying to get him to see the error of his ways. Your calling me an idiot is certainly uncalled for, especially if you won't settle the issue with information yourself. If you're looking to flame however, you know i'm always game.b:sin

    lol, fair enough, my apologies.... for now. b:chuckle

    Although i would ask you to leave it for tomorrow since i do have plans for the evening, this girl i was out with on friday just called a while ago. b:victory

    Gogogo! b:cool
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Lenore - Harshlands
    Lenore - Harshlands Posts: 1,201 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

    @Lenore; It took him what? One sentence to answer my challenge? Because it took me less than two minutes to prove him wrong. Oh how stupid i am, to think actually working from real numbers would settle a debate... No, he's still right, isn't he? Because without anything actually resembling evidence you will consider it as something self evident, and even undeniable fact, there are 79 Archers which are levels 95-96 that actually do have +10 weps. Well, since Kiyoshi seems to have taken the trouble of exerting his mind for what must have no doubt been long seconds (actually a couple of days) in figuring out a way to prove me wrong--- i'll at least grant him the benefit of doubt he'll have the decency of presenting a counter argument or admiting the truth.

    I consider it self evident because it's what I see, not because Kiyo said it. It's not that hard to understand, come on, get it through your thick skull: Just because we're friends doesn't mean jack **** in a forum banter, but using it an excuse is just dumb. And wow, I thought it was stupid that some troll wannabee used how long people take in between posts as a way of argument, but here it is again *facepalm.* Just because someone doesn't answer you RIGHT AWAY doesn't mean they were thinking about it the whole time. Some people actually, I don't know, play the game, and/or have a life outside the computer. I'm sure you'd understand. I certainly haven't read all the walls of text in between the quoted section and my post now yet, nor do I think I will unless I end up in a tank and spank boss run where I actually would have time to go over walls of stupidity. Does it mean I'm THINKING about it the whole time while I'm not reading it? Pfft, you'd be a fool to think so.

    Try thinking for yourself instead of blindly taking the word of a higher level and accepting as self evident truth their claims. Because the info Kiyoshi so carelessly refered me to is obvious he didn't actually bothered to check upon himself. You're acting as an inquisitor by working on his behalf to supress critical thinking and skepticism, hardly the attitude of someone claiming to be interested only in the actual debate. this is the reason i called you dishonest. And since also you seem to have had trouble understanding what i last wrote i'll spell it out for you; it was in response to your claims about my tring to "save face" and have others look "bad". I don't care about my reputation but about facts. I have been proven wrong in discussions far more heated than this one and been man enough to admit my mistake. Obviously this is beyond the both of you. And still think hag as a term is used today in a manner that has any connection with sexual activity? Did you decide to remain ignorant and didn't actually bother looking it up?

    I can't believe you accused ME of reading comprehension problems. Where did you "comprehend" that he was in any way a superior of mine in levels? We are both level 101. In fact I am his squad leader, so if you want to get technical I have more pixel-authority than him, though I don't even know why you brought up this ****. And where did I say I was interested in this "debate?" For one, I don't consider this a debate. Two, all I said was venos with hercs find squads easier (FACT) and also that your challenge is stupid (OPINION) + my reasons. Do try to stay on track without adding your own words as though they were mine.

    Also, I've never actually seen you admit you were wrong. Granted, I don't read each and every post on these forums, so before I call bull**** on that, kindly link me to such a thread or post, because out of the many posts you have made, some I enjoyed and some I thought was ****, I don't see any where you were "man" enough to accept any fault.

    To me the issue here is having a pretentious and unexisting standard shoved down our throats by people like your precious Kiyoshi. We don't all have to play the game according to the standards of a handful of no lifers. And let me make this clear, there are plenty players his level that have a healthy common sense and whose advice is helpful, this isn't about 1xx but about the part of them that would like to impose their moronic views on the rest of us.

    I called you immature because you can't seem to let go of the fact that my support for Kiyoshi has nothing to do with any RELATIONSHIP of ours. You just keep clinging to that like some security blanket, even though I've explained to you in every single post since you made the **** claim that we're no more dear to each other than just friends and that I don't defend my friends in forum banters anyways. Most of my 'friends' have different opinions from me and have done things I consider stupid; I don't agree with everything they do JUST 'CUZ. Even if I did, I've never seen a reason to defend my friends in a forum banter unless I agree with them myself, in which case we would be arguing for the same side but on separate terms. I don't know how to spell this out for you even more elementary terms. As for Kiyoshi's "standards," I never said I agreed with his idea of average. I did say that my gear was below par compared to what he described as average. Personally, I dont' care about the average and don't have a definition of it myself.

    Five 'tards.

    And Kiyo, we must stop seeing each other. Apparently it's affecting our trolling careers, and we all know trolling is much more important than a partner. I should stop taking up your time and let you reply 24/7 to your 'challengers.'
  • Mraochan - Lost City
    Mraochan - Lost City Posts: 464 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

    ...a -90% channeling mage...

    That's ...a lot of - channeling b:shocked

    I didn't even know it was possible to get that much, wow, just wow...
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    is it really necessary to announce multiple times on a forum that you can get dates. most of us just don't care and probably don't even believe you. from my personal experience its those who is without that'll keep on talking about it (in this case a girl) in a vain attempt to convince others. for those us who have... we don't need to prove **** to anyone else cause we know that we have... and our actions and appearance speaks louder then any jumble of words will.

    LOL, i honestly don't know why off coments such as this would enrage you or why you would even feel the urge to even post just for this . Yeah, once in a while i may comment on this stuff, couldn't it just be that i simply felt happy about it? Dude, just chill, if it makes you feel better my date got a bit awkward near the end anyway... Although we did agree to see each other again... And for my part i would be wishing you luck if you made a similar remark, believe it or not, i don't take the flaming to heart.

    Now, could you please answer the last post i actually addressed to you.
    Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »
    Five 'tards.

    And Kiyo, we must stop seeing each other. Apparently it's affecting our trolling careers, and we all know trolling is much more important than a partner. I should stop taking up your time and let you reply 24/7 to your 'challengers.'

    Seriously, you must be joking...

    First- The comment about the couple of days was meant as sarcasm, please stop being so literally minded. Is your missing this type of nuances that has led me to comment on your reading skills in the first place.

    Second- Stop posting in an alt then. You claimed he would consider you undergeared (and therefore unfit for his squads) and now it turns out you're his leader... What is it then?

    As for a thread in which i admitted a mistake over what became a very heated exchange it's kind of an old one. The discussion revolved around the actual dps of Sins and the OP, much like Kiyoshi, actually held out for so long on proving his claims i actually ended up doing the math for him and proved myself wrong. The credit for the good part of the math work on that thread goes to Waffle however. I did admit my mistake and apologized, i have considered Sins broken ever since. If you want a more recent example Michael and Kupuntu had to educate me on precisely why you would use tag quotes instead of colored text when answering someone else's posts... A mistake which ironically you have made yourself... I learned my lesson and have done it right since. I'm not sure if i did fully apologize on that ocassion (thread was locked for flaming) but in case i didn't i don't mind doing it again. Michael and Kupuntu i do apologize and thank you for a valuable lesson. b:thanks

    That should save me having to waste my time looking through old threads just to make a point.

    The veno forums are another place you could look, i have posted many apologies on small etiquette breaches or a couple of times when proven wrong, fortunately the enviroment there is not as harsh as the one in general, and i do have to remind myself not to treat posters in the same manner i would here.

    Third- The fixation about me implying a "romantic" relationship between you and Kiyoshi is actually all in your head. You still don't have a clue what hag means do you?

    Edit; And since i'm still in a good mood i'll even offer you both an olive branch. Stick to the actual argument at hand and i won't be obnoxious myself either. My point revolves around the standard Kiyoshi seems to have set for gearing, which i believe to apply only to the very specific circumstances of a very small group of players, and that it could not actually be used as a generalization on what the minimum for the majority of players would be. I still think there's plenty of room left for competitive gameplay outside of belonging to the top elite, but that's just an opinion. What i do stand behind is there no being actual gameplay reasons (as far as runs being made on a speedy, cost effective manner goes) to require an herc outside of perhaps less than a handful of circumstances (that's 3-4 scenarios).

    I don't actually care about the number of Archers with +10 refines on HT, but i'll honor my challenge if Kiyoshi wishes to further pursue the matter. I issued it merely as an illustration of my argument.

    There you go, i don't get any nicer than this. The ball is on your side of the court now.
  • Baalbak - Dreamweaver
    Baalbak - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    Allisandre - Sanctuary wrote: »
    1. Barbs tanking in 59. All of the bosses have magical attacks and barbs just don't have any decent magical defense. HP isn't the issue here, and a wizard can hold aggro if the rest of the squad plays smart. So please, stop thinking the barb is always the tanker. (Also not that Drake and Glutt have a fire DoT attack and whoever is tanking needs to be purified regularly so that these to stack up badly.)(Almost forgot to mention that the same is true for Calcid and Trioc in 39.) Yes barbs are good tanks, but people need to realize that in some cases, other classes can tank, and may even be a better choice.
    You mentioned you are a barb, therefore you should know that us barbs have "alacrity of the beast" and can cancel those magic attacks. Therefore, the magic defense issue is really a moot point there. However, its probably a better idea to have an archer or wiz tank those kiting mobs on the path to the boss - so that they don't run up the walls.
    2. The veno pulls. With the addition of genies, it is possible for other classes to pull. HOWEVER, if you have a veno in the squad, let them pull. If you decide that you wish to pull with your genie instead, then discuss it beforehand. Many a party is wiped because the veno goes to pull and some other player decides that he/she will instead.
    I've asked venomancers to pull... and they use earthflame. Not all do, but many do because "I can't get my pet out in time". Hello?? I'm gonna catch it.
    3. Do BH's to level up. While BH is a great tool to level, and is awesome for filling that gap in the higher levels, leveling exclusively with BH is just going to make life harder for you. Sure you can get from 0 to 60 in 5 days, but what have you learned? Now you've got a huge pile of skills to learn and no money or spirit needed to learn them. For venomancers it is especially hard keeping the pets caught up with your level. Do your quests first, and fill in the space after quests with BH. You'll play better when you know how to play your character and have the skills you need to not fail. (NOTE: Despite the arguments, you learn more about your characters skills soloing in the lower levels than you do in BH squads. Once you have achieved the higher levels, BH is a necessary part of leveling because it basically replaces the tedium of grinding. By this point you should know how to play your character for the most part. You'd be surprised at how many don't. (oh wait, you do know, look at all the QQ threads on failed BH runs.))
    soloing is harder to learn your role in a squad setting such as BH runs. True you may learn which skill does more damage etc.. or get practice on pulling or fighting elite mobs. But beyond that, the best way to learn your role in an instance is to... go into an instance.
    4. You have to spend money to do good in the game. No, this is absolutely not true. I hardly spend any money in the cash shop, and when I do, it's usually just a couple of charms when they are on sale. I've for a 94cleric with good gear that does TW, an 82 barb, also with excellent gear for his level, and a few other characters that have done just fine without spending oodles of cash on the game. Use your coins wisely, farm and merchant for the extra cash you need and you'll do just fine.
    i can see both sides of the coin here. There are good players that are dirt poor, and there are fail players that spend lots of money on the game. But if you take that same great player and give him a bunch of money, he will excel beyond the lesser geared counterpart.
    5. A venomancer is worthless if she doesn't have a herc. Yes the herc is good, but it's not that exclusive anymore. The abilities of the herc were nerfed many months ago and it is much more difficult for a herc to hold aggro. The only difference between a walker and a herc at level 90 is about 1200hp and the skills. My walker will actually take aggro from an equally leveled herc if I'm not careful. So knock it off and let non-herced venos do FCC ect.

    my main gripe about venos period is that many of them dont use a pet at all until I say something about it >.> lol why you need a herc in FC anyhow? I tank and pull. I don't think a herc even has the highest DPS of the available pets in the game anyhow.
    6. The squad got wiped at 'X' boss because the cleric wan't healing everyone. Clerics seems to get blamed a lot for people dying, especially at bosses. Never mind that the archer/assasin/blademaster was going all out in an effort to prove how OP they were and take aggro from the barb. What usually happens is that the cleric is focused on healing the barb, someone without enough HP to tank gets aggro, and pandemonium ensues. When you take aggro, it resets the values. Also, there's is some delay in seeing that a person is taking aggro and noticing their hp drop, selecting said individual, and then beginning the healing process. Typically, they die, and the aggro goes to the next individual dealing a lot of damage. Give the clerics a break and pay attention to how you are fighting and what you are aggroing. (Also keep in mine that hyper-leveled clerics often have sucky heal skills because they can't afford to level them)

    Well, when the squad wipes - someone could have done something better. I've had clerics refuse to heal in TT when a pull went bad (veno pull mind you) on the 4th Wurlord clone. I did my part, roared to catch, invoked, solid shield, sunder pot etc.. you name it. With two clerics there - the one still alive could have resurrected the one who got waxed, buffed her and healed her and got BB reset in time for us to actually succeed. But no.. she was scared to die so did nothing and let everyone else die. My gripe here is, the fit hits the shan sometimes, and when it does you should at least TRY to save it especially when you see the rest of the squad doing their part - dont just stand there. Granted in this scenario the cleric could have done better, and the veno could have done better - but its not always the case. When squad wipes happen you should sit back and think "huh.. what did we do wrong/what could we have done better/differently?"
    7. Reflect will reduce the damage I take. Bramble guard does not reduce your damage taken all it does is return some of the attackers damage back to them. Skill Description: "Cast a bramble shield of protection on a friendly target. Returns XX% of melee damage to attackers." The Psychic version reads similarly but with a lot more words because of the soulforce. (NOTE: I have tested this extensively on both my venomancer and my psychic and there was NO reduction in the damage taken by the mob hitting me.)

    directly, no
    indirectly, yes. with bramble up - things die faster so theres less damage taken during a fight.b:chuckle

    only bramble HOOD reduces damage, and thats a self cast only skill.
    8. Skills and equips boost your flying speed. Specifically True Form, SumerSprint, gear that adds to speed ect. No matter what class you are, or gear or whatever, your base flying speed is 5. The Aerogear will add to that, along with apoc speed boosts and the white genies base skill, and some skill that the Tideborn have. (forget the names, will add later.) For example: A Barb in True Form has a run speed of 8. When he takes to the air, his +3 aerogear does not add the +3 to 8 making +11. Rather it adds the +3 to a SET base speed of 5 to make it +8. (yes the barb would be slower flying than runnin, and in some cases a barb can get faster than a mount.)
    i wish it did lol. I move at 9.2 m/sec in demon true form. With a +2.5 m/sec flyer I'd be faster than a mount (even though I basically am a mount already o.0)
    9. Venomancers can get banned for attacking ground mobs from the air, with an air pet. As long as the mob is able to fight back it is totally legal. Mob does not have to be able to attack the veno, but at least her pet. The only occation where this is bannable is where there is a glitch that prevents the mob from fighting back without resetting. The only one I am familiar with that glitches atm is Gouf.
    dunno where that one started from lol. I used to do that all the time on my veno - not the bosses though.
    Updated: Added a bit of information and added NOTES to some of the sections.
    Also, when quoting this post, please reduce it to the specifics that you are quoting, not the entire post. It's cluttering up the thread.

    my replies inside your quote
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Retired..
  • Lenore - Harshlands
    Lenore - Harshlands Posts: 1,201 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

    Seriously, you must be joking...

    First- The comment about the couple of days was meant as sarcasm, please stop being so literally minded. Is your missing this type of nuances that has led me to comment on your reading skills in the first place.

    It's hard for me not to be literal minded when you so obviously are. I wouldn't want to be misinterpreted myself *rolls eyes*.


    Second- Stop posting in an alt then. You claimed he would consider you undergeared (and therefore unfit for his squads) and now it turns out you're his leader... What is it then?

    My main is banned. If you were just a little bit resourceful and check my profile you'd find my main quite easily *rolls eyes again.* Honestly, you shouldn't be the one to talk about resourcefulness at this rate.

    And what? Where did this "unfit for his squads" come from? STILL reading into my posts huh? Additionally I did mention BEFORE that I was his squad leader; you appeared to have...selectively missed it. It's okay, sometimes I have selective reading too.

    As for a thread in which i admitted a mistake over what became a very heated exchange it's kind of an old one. The discussion revolved around the actual dps of Sins and the OP, much like Kiyoshi, actually held out for so long on proving his claims i actually ended up doing the math for him and proved myself wrong. The credit for the good part of the math work on that thread goes to Waffle however. I did admit my mistake and apologized, i have considered Sins broken ever since. If you want a more recent example Michael and Kupuntu had to educate me on precisely why you would use tag quotes instead of colored text when answering someone else's posts... A mistake which ironically you have made yourself... I learned my lesson and have done it right since. I'm not sure if i did fully apologize on that ocassion (thread was locked for flaming) but in case i didn't i don't mind doing it again. Michael and Kupuntu i do apologize and thank you for a valuable lesson. b:thanks

    That should save me having to waste my time looking through old threads just to make a point.

    It's not my responsibility to 'waste time' to find the evidence that supports YOUR point. You link it, or as far as I am concerned it doesn't exist. Or if you can, you can get Michael/Kupuntu to find it instead. I mean, I can just take your word for it, but it's still hearsay to me until I read it. You'll excuse me of course, as sometimes people exaggerate their virtues.

    As for my colored text, I do it because I'm lazy. If I quoted out every single piece it's a sign that I cared more. I do it sometimes, if the topic is worth the effort. I don't consider it a mistake; I consider it a lazy habit for people who can't care less.

    The veno forums are another place you could look, i have posted many apologies on small etiquette breaches or a couple of times when proven wrong, fortunately the enviroment there is not as harsh as the one in general, and i do have to remind myself not to treat posters in the same manner i would here.

    Oh noes, sorry for my terrible manners.

    Third- The fixation about me implying a "romantic" relationship between you and Kiyoshi is actually all in your head. You still don't have a clue what hag means do you?

    No, I didn't bother looking up a word I already knew. Boohoo.

    Edit; And since i'm still in a good mood i'll even offer you both an olive branch. Stick to the actual argument at hand and i won't be obnoxious myself either. My point revolves around the standard Kiyoshi seems to have set for gearing, which i believe to apply only to the very specific circumstances of a very small group of players, and that it could not actually be used as a generalization on what the minimum for the majority of players would be. I still think there's plenty of room left for competitive gameplay outside of belonging to the top elite, but that's just an opinion. What i do stand behind is there no being actual gameplay reasons (as far as runs being made on a speedy, cost effective manner goes) to require an herc outside of perhaps less than a handful of circumstances (that's 3-4 scenarios).

    Pft, olive branch? Let's see here...I said your challenge was ridiculous. I honestly don't care what his standards are or what your standards are for that matter, because I don't play by anyone else's standards. Well okay, I lied there: I try to keep up with Enrage 'standards'. Some people only regard the top 15% as real people, and that means to them the top 7%-8% is "average." It's stressful to play the game that way, but it's a choice, which is something I don't care to argue over. Instead, I just try to keep up with pulling my weight around the people I play with. As I mentioned, I didn't bother to get the +10 refine on my bow until I was practically the last person in my squad not to have it. As for the herc, it does not matter to me if a veno has a herc or not if I am not relying on them to tank. HOWEVER, I stand by what I say that herc venos simply have an easier time finding a squad, and make note that I am not commenting about the justification of the reasoning behind that trend. I see that as a fact and I don't know why you keep trying to get back on this topic with me. I mean, I'm not the one denying you from parties am I? What good is it to tell me about affordable gameplay?

    I don't actually care about the number of Archers with +10 refines on HT, but i'll honor my challenge if Kiyoshi wishes to further pursue the matter. I issued it merely as an illustration of my argument.

    There you go, i don't get any nicer than this. The ball is on your side of the court now.

    Kind of you, but as I like to play rough, it's not necessary. I am simply annoyed you keep going back the same points that I'm telling you do not apply to me, and also that you keep ADDING your own inferences that I did NOT say as if I said them. The way I roll is simple; don't give me anything to flame/troll/ridicule, and I most likely won't. As far as "olive branch" goes, I don't think I've strayed from the argument ( or if it was about the applicability of Kiyo's "standards" I wasn't in it at all), nor have your replies been directly addressing what little I said about what your argument(s) seems to be about. Thanks for the thought though.
    Five Characters.
  • Mraochan - Lost City
    Mraochan - Lost City Posts: 464 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    Baalbak - Dreamweaver wrote: »

    I've asked venomancers to pull... and they use earthflame.

    /facepalm ...just when I thought I'd heard it all, lol
    I don't think a herc even has the highest DPS of the available pets in the game anyhow.

    Correct, many pets can out-dps a herc. Best to choose a pet based on the skills/debuffs/needs of the squad in my opinion...
    When squad wipes happen you should sit back and think "huh.. what did we do wrong/what could we have done better/differently?"

    Very much agreed
  • XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary
    XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary Posts: 683 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    i dont understand where people get the notion that when a veno has a herc is usually means their a good player. Its a cash shoppable pet which means any idiot with a bank role can buy it.
    ... i would never had got my herc without a good friend. I just didnt have the money for it. b:bye
    Q - How to win on Perfect World?
    A - Throw money at it.
  • Lenore - Harshlands
    Lenore - Harshlands Posts: 1,201 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary wrote: »
    i dont understand where people get the notion that when a veno has a herc is usually means their a good player. Its a cash shoppable pet which means any idiot with a bank role can buy it.
    ... i would never had got my herc without a good friend. I just didnt have the money for it. b:bye

    Quite a few people seem to have agreed that hercs are not directly proportional to skill level. We have concluded that herc'd venos can be idiots and non-herc'd venos can be pro. We--or at least I--decided that comparing rotten apples to perfect peaches does not prove or disprove anything: it only shows that apples can be rotten or fresh, and that peaches can be rotten or fresh....It does not necessarily prove whether apples or peaches are better.
  • Mraochan - Lost City
    Mraochan - Lost City Posts: 464 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    I think we all know peaches are better b:chuckle
  • Lenore - Harshlands
    Lenore - Harshlands Posts: 1,201 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    Mraochan - Lost City wrote: »
    I think we all know peaches are better b:chuckle

    Personally, I prefer peaches also. ESPECIALLY when the other choice is a rotten apple. b:laugh
  • La_Zorra - Sanctuary
    La_Zorra - Sanctuary Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    Allisandre - Sanctuary wrote: »
    After playing the game for a very long time I am often surprised that the things that people don't know, realize, or misunderstand. So I figured I'd fire off a thread listing them. I do ask that you post respectfully and that the troll stay out, but I know that won't happen so I'll just suck the good points out later and update this, the primary list.

    This is an interesting post, and raises some valid points. I've been playing in PWI since September 2008, and I am still learning new things all the time.

    Also I am one of those Venos who doesn't plan on owning a Herc, although I AM saving up my feathers for a Phoenix. I don't like the Hercs, too big and difficult to see around, based on my experience playing with Venos who do have one, and plus the expense of buying one, too. So maybe that means some squads don't want me because I don't have a Herc...fine; I'm sick of all this QQ about Venos anyways, from people that have never played one, or only maybe at a low level before they decided to play a different character.

    I, like several others it seems, have been in instances where it became painfully obvious that the Barb or BM was an "Oracle Baby" and really had no clue as to how to play their character. I mean, Jeez, we ALL make mistakes and **** up from time to time, that's human, but to repeatedly keep doing the same behavior, with dire consequences, over and over and over, and all the while belittling the Cleric or another party member (who all seemed to be doing fine) and blaming everyone else for him getting killed, after 2 or 3 mob/boss hits...(and getting others killed too)....well, buster, you're just dumber than a box of rocks (and that's insulting the rocks).

    So thanks for the timely post, Allisandre; good info!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Muchas gracias to Saitada for the siggy ~
  • Lakera - Dreamweaver
    Lakera - Dreamweaver Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    Allisandre - Sanctuary wrote: »
    9. Venomancers can get banned for attacking ground mobs from the air, with an air pet. As long as the mob is able to fight back it is totally legal. Mob does not have to be able to attack the veno, but at least her pet. The only occation where this is bannable is where there is a glitch that prevents the mob from fighting back without resetting. The only one I am familiar with that glitches atm is Gouf.
    And that's why you can't truly "hunt" in this game. <.<
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »
    Five Characters.

    You did bring up one interesting point in your last tirade. Yeah, you're not actually a part of the argument, just trolling me on the point that you didn't like the challenge i issued to Kiyoshi. And the worst of it is you seem to share his inability to distinguish amongst the terms average and standard which, for the matter of this discussion, is almost the same as mistaking subjective and objective requirements... The thread's title is not "requirements to get into 1xx squads" and i wouldn't have even posted to begin with had such a thread been made. That Kiyoshi's minimum standard (not his "average" get a freaking dictionary) is to require an herc for venos has no bearing on the subject of wether one is actually required (in terms of gameplay) and neither does the fact (i'll grant you that) one is often demanded. The misconception is that an herc is needed and that's what the argument is about, wether you think it more convenient or even necessary is simply your opinion.

    Fine, you think the challenge is stupid, i get it. You have made the point abundantly clear. Unless you're willing to actually provide the info yourself you have no need to further pursue it as your opinion remains unimportant, since you don't seem willing to actually get involved on the thread's actual subject. "Better" doesn't mean "necessary". As far as gameplay is concerned, that you do something doesn't equate it being the most efficient way of doing it. You think 85% of us don't actually even count as players, seriously? Is that even an argument? Go post on your faction's forums then, General is for everyone. Why are you even addressing us non factors? Is it e-peen or are you just recruiting? People like you are killing the game since you're ensuring the majority of players that reach a certain level range will be met with an hostile enviroment. You can't respect the fact some of us will play without devoting an unhealthy part of our waking lives to it? Oh, but you're so leet you have to shove your standards down everybody's throat. You don't even care about gameplay efficiency at all, which should be embarrasing for someone making your claims, but you feel entitled to your opinion don't you? You're just trying to enforce your dogma and boast about who you are and what you have "accomplished".

    Get out of here you useless troll, i offered you an olive branch in a generous spirit and what i got was your sick ranting in response. The proverbial throwing "pearls to pigs". No, i didn't care to look at your profile, that your main got banned very likely is for good reason... And no, i don't have to provide a link when i'm demostrating i'm actually capable of acknowledging mistakes by actually doing it. It takes the same amount of effort to properly quote as it does to use coloured text, so you're not lazy you're stupid. At the very least i was actually able to LEARN from it being pointed out to me, although in your case the process will likely take tedious repetition. And if you know the meaning to of the term hag why have you all but ignored it? There are several posts in here that prove you don't.

    You have added nothing of value to this convo, have provided nothing but useless opinions, have proven nothing beyond being being a member of the game's "top elite" that doesn't care to actually improve the way they play. You don't care about critical thinking and discourage that someone would question what you consider established wisdom. That i doubted what you consider "self evident truth" drove you to insult and disqualification and all trying to prove what? That your kind is not as small a minority? That your levels and gears have relevance to the rest of us? Why don't you get a life instead of trying to avenge your being bullied by becoming a jerk in an online game?
  • NightRage - Raging Tide
    NightRage - Raging Tide Posts: 1,582 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    This thread is ****.
  • Mraochan - Lost City
    Mraochan - Lost City Posts: 464 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

    an herc

    I'm sorry >< This is off topic, and I don't want to get into this discussion really, but my mind does a barrel roll every time I read this.

    "An" should only come before words starting with a vowel, abbreviations starting with a vowel, and phonetic pronunciations that would begin with a vowel.

    Not trolling, just a correction ... trying to help b:victory
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    Mraochan - Lost City wrote: »
    I'm sorry >< This is off topic, and I don't want to get into this discussion really, but my mind does a barrel roll every time I read this.

    "An" should only come before words starting with a vowel, abbreviations starting with a vowel, and phonetic pronunciations that would begin with a vowel.

    Not trolling, just a correction ... trying to help b:victory

    H may be silent but not using an would phonetically create a diphtong that would make it difficult to differentiate the words as separate...
  • Rillien - Heavens Tear
    Rillien - Heavens Tear Posts: 569 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    Not in English, it's not really a standard diphthong. Plus even if it were, diphthongs only occur when the vowels/semivowels are in the same syllable. "A herc" is read as two separate syllables [and words] since you stress both. Even words like re-enter, where you have a double "e" sound back to back, aren't considered diphthong words because they are in different syllables.

    WHOO linguistics b:shutup

    I'm done nerding out.
  • Silest - Sanctuary
    Silest - Sanctuary Posts: 816 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    Dangit, stop killing the kittens >=/

    And it's amazing how this thread degenerated into a herc discussion.
  • Mraochan - Lost City
    Mraochan - Lost City Posts: 464 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    Ok I'll go become an hero now.
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    Rillien - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Not in English, it's not really a standard diphthong. Plus even if it were, diphthongs only occur when the vowels/semivowels are in the same syllable. "A herc" is read as two separate syllables [and words] since you stress both. Even words like re-enter, where you have a double "e" sound back to back, aren't considered diphthong words because they are in different syllables.

    WHOO linguistics b:shutup

    I'm done nerding out.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_and_an

    I would refer you to the very first diagram (under general usage) when used as an idefinite article.

    and Mraochan, that's not a silent h...
  • EbonyBlood - Heavens Tear
    EbonyBlood - Heavens Tear Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited September 2010
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    "A" and "an" function as the indefinite forms of the grammatical article in the English language and can also represent the number one. An is the older form (related to one, cognate to German ein; etc.), now used before words starting with a vowel sound, regardless of whether the word begins with a vowel letter.[8] Examples: a light-water reactor; an LWR (Note: When an acronym is spelled out, rather than spelling out what it is that is represented by the letters in the acronym, the phonetics of the acronym should be used when reading the text aloud. So the use of "a" or "an" as shown in this example is correct based on the proper application of this rule); a sanitary sewer overflow; an SSO; a HEPA filter (because HEPA is pronounced as a word rather than as letters); an hour; a ewe; a one-armed bandit; an heir; a unicorn (begins with 'yu', a consonant sound).

    o.o I was bored.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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