Common Misconceptions
Comments
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That's 2 threads you have dragged off topic, MANray. Care to shoot for a third?Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
~Spazz~0 -
Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »b:laugh I refuse to go into this with you again.
Ok I *will* ask this: what exactly did I say that "insulted your ethic origin?"
Oh, how cute, you spotted a typo. You do realize that not only have you resorted to hate speech but that your trolling is actually crossing the line into harrassment. Because you are very mistaken if you think i'm just letting this one go...0 -
MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Oh, how cute, you spotted a typo. You do realize that not only have you resorted to hate speech but that your trolling is actually crossing the line into harrassment. Because you are very mistaken if you think i'm just letting this one go...
Oh and calling me a hag is not harassment? Not to mention calling me someone else's hag. Sheesh you're full of double standards today. Unless you're upset that he's calling you a troll, and you called me a troll too, so...0 -
I would scream "cat fight!!!" however..0
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MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Oh, how cute, you spotted a typo. You do realize that not only have you resorted to hate speech but that your trolling is actually crossing the line into harrassment. Because you are very mistaken if you think i'm just letting this one go...
I simply asked you a question. SHEESH. Do you not know a peace offering when you see one?
I did no such thing.MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Oh, how cute, you spotted a typo.Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
~Spazz~0 -
Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »Oh and calling me a hag is not harassment? Not to mention calling me someone else's hag. Sheesh you're full of double standards today. Unless you're upset that he's calling you a troll, and you called me a troll too, so...
Am i following you across multiple threads? Have i insulted your national origin? You're calling me names as well, as far as i can tell we are just flaming. Do you want to cross the line into hate speech also?0 -
I like peaches. b:bye0
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MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Am i following you across multiple threads? Have i insulted your national origin? You're calling me names as well, as far as i can tell we are just flaming. Do you want to cross the line into hate speech also?
HATE SPEECH? You told me go fvck my mother, in Spanish to boot! I'm not "following" you. What? Do I no longer have the right to post in a thread just because you are there?Mraochan - Lost City wrote: »I like peaches. b:bye
Me too ^_^Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
~Spazz~0 -
MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Am i following you across multiple threads? Have i insulted your national origin? You're calling me names as well, as far as i can tell we are just flaming. Do you want to cross the line into hate speech also?
There is a line between hate-speech and flaming? I don't know, my post was asking YOU if calling you names is considered hate-speech. I certainly dont' consider it so, but I haven't seen Typhyse call you anything other than a troll, so I made a conclusion based on what I saw. Someone's sensitive about being called 'names'....
And also, you've posted in threads I've posted in. Does that mean you're stalking me? I didn't think so. Double standards (again).0 -
it was in another thread that found its way into The Depths, forget about it.Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »I haven't seen Typhyse call you anything other than a troll
Let's get back on topic please. I'm sure the GMs and MODs are just loving this...Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »There is a line between hate-speech and flaming?
Both are against forum rules. So here, there is no line.Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
~Spazz~0 -
NightRage - Raging Tide wrote: »This thread is ****.
This thread is still ****.
Also, hercules does not have a silent h. Urk-u-lees does not exist.0 -
Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »There is a line between hate-speech and flaming? I don't know, my post was asking YOU if calling you names is considered hate-speech. I certainly dont' consider it so, but I haven't seen Typhyse call you anything other than a troll, so I made a conclusion based on what I saw. Someone's sensitive about being called 'names'....
And also, you've posted in threads I've posted in. Does that mean you're stalking me? I didn't think so. Double standards (again).
Look, make your case again. If you do it punctually i'll answer every single item but don't accuse me of "double standards". He followed me on this thread to address me relating something from another one, there's a big difference in between posting in multiple threads and stalking someone across them, i've often agreed with someone and suported their view on one thread while i was insulting them on another one. There is a line. And it's one thing to insult you and a very different one to resort to things such as prejudice and racism. Some things you can take back, some things you can't. I don't care about being friends with you but i'll do my best to leave things in good terms as long as it doesn't involve outright discrimination, and if you haven't seen him doing it is because he resorted to that on a different thread.0 -
Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »it was in another thread that found its way into The Depths, forget about it.
Let's get back on topic please. I'm sure the GMs and MODs are just loving this...
Both are against forum rules. So here, there is no line.
Edited out.0 -
MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Look, make your case again. If you do it punctually i'll answer every single item but don't accuse me of "double standards". He followed me on this thread to address me relating something from another one, there's a big difference in between posting in multiple threads and stalking someone across them, i've often agreed with someone and suported their view on one thread while i was insulting them on another one. There is a line. And it's one thing to insult you and a very different one to resort to things such as prejudice and racism. Some things you can take back, some things you can't. I don't care about being friends with you but i'll do my best to leave things in good terms as long as it doesn't involve outright discrimination, and if you haven't seen him doing it is because he resorted to that on a different thread.
Do I ask you to repost your walls of text because I'm too lazy to look at it myself?
I'll accuse you of whatever I see fit. If it bothers you then you can make the effort to change my mind. So far I don't see why anyone who's argued with you in another thread and happens to see you trolling in this thread and calls you out on it should be considered a stalker. In fact if I see you make a stupid post or challenge in another thread I could reply to that too, but does that mean I'm stalking you?
I really can't be bothered to hunt down where Typhyse was making these reputed insulting comments but if you really don't bring your grudges across threads, then I should like to point out that I don't see any of it here, so you should leave it out of this thread.
I don't really care if you want to argue against my "case." The post was a direct reply to yours, and if you didn't read it, it doesn't mean no one else did. I don't lose anything by you not replying to it. Heck I'd probably facedesk if I have to sift through another wall of text of assumptions...again.0 -
Edited out; As of this moment i cannot longer engage in flaming of any kind.0
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Can we please return to the topic before the MODs are forced to close yet another thread?Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
~Spazz~0 -
@Lenore; I apologize if i've made you feel wronged in any way, as well as to any other posters on this thread which may have feel offended. I will no longer on post on any matter regarding inapropiate commentary.0
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MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »@Lenore; I apologize if i've made you feel wronged in any way, as well as to any other posters on this thread which may have feel offended. I will no longer on post on any matter regarding inapropiate commentary.
I apologize for egging you on in the other thread. I also apologize for insulting your nationality. It was not intentional, I assure you.Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
~Spazz~0 -
I Apologize for the hamsters that run this game.0
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MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »@Lenore; I apologize if i've made you feel wronged in any way, as well as to any other posters on this thread which may have feel offended. I will no longer on post on any matter regarding inapropiate commentary.
It's okay, I was not offended. There is, however, a bit of an attitude problem when you claim that your arguments go uncontested by refusing to acknowledge the replies.
I apologize for being involved in fanning the flame that dragged this thread waaaay off topic now.0 -
Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »There is, however, a bit of an attitude problem when you claim that your arguments go uncontested by refusing to acknowledge the replies.
Careful...Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
~Spazz~0 -
Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »Careful...
That is actually on topic. I was referring to (among other things) the fact that Kiyoshi said he doesn't need to pull up a list of +10 bow archers just to say that some people have higher standards. Standards -> venos getting into squads -> herc/no herc argument -> thread.0 -
I agree with all points made so far! Another one, also hugely popular myth IMO is (didn't read all pages, could have been mentioned before):
10. Turning Wyvern around during BH51 will prevent it from aoeing (usually intended to protect the cleric but also the other squad members). This is really wide-spread and every single BH51 squad I've been in did it. In reality turning it around doesn't change anything; it aoes from all sides regardless of what direction it's facing. b:embarrassb:beatup
Btw Kimsa can also be bugged using flying pet, not that I encourage it in any way (but I've seen many venos doing it). xD
Seriously, there should be something like system messages debunking these myths. b:sweat0 -
Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »That is actually on topic. I was referring to (among other things) the fact that Kiyoshi said he doesn't need to pull up a list of +10 bow archers just to say that some people have higher standards. Standards -> venos getting into squads -> herc/no herc argument -> thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DNKW0EgNm4&feature=related
The argument was made around the concept of wether A hercules pet was in fact required or not for instances from a gameplay perspective. Expectations by other players became an unfortunate corollary to this, and the challenge i issued addressed wether there was in fact a significant enough group upholding the high standard demanded by some. In hindsight perhaps i shouldn't have been so insistent on the point being settled by an actual estimate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPCbMsRvKbY&feature=related
No actual gameplay reasons have been fowarded that would warrant the need for A hercules in other but a very narrow set of circumstances which, given the considerable resources that would need be invested in acquiring such pet, would render unreasonable said demand. Wether the advantages of accessing squads running high level instances would justify such investment remains a legitimate point of discussion, although in the strict sense this is not entirely related to the misconception A hercules pet is necessary.0 -
MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DNKW0EgNm4&feature=related
The argument was made around the concept of whether a hercules pet was in fact required or not for instances from a gameplay perspective. Expectations by other players became an unfortunate corollary to this, and the challenge I issued addressed whether there was in fact a significant enough group upholding the high standard demanded by some. In hindsight perhaps I shouldn't have been so insistent on the point being settled by an actual estimate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPCbMsRvKbY&feature=related
No actual gameplay reasons have been fowarded that would warrant the need for a hercules in other but a very narrow set of circumstances which, given the considerable resources that would need be invested in acquiring such pet, would render unreasonable said demand. Whether the advantages of accessing squads running high level instances would justify such investment remains a legitimate point of discussion, although in the strict sense this is not entirely related to the misconception a hercules pet is necessary.5. A venomancer is worthless if she doesn't have a herc. Yes the herc is good, but it's not that exclusive anymore. The abilities of the herc were nerfed many months ago and it is much more difficult for a herc to hold aggro. The only difference between a walker and a herc at level 90 is about 1200hp and the skills. My walker will actually take aggro from an equally leveled herc if I'm not careful. So knock it off and let non-herced venos do FCC ect.
...is the original herc-related topic of the thread, not whether a herc is required for instances.
That said, I never said a herc is necessary, nor did I say non-herc venos were incompetent. I said they have a harder time finding squads, which is what the OP said. Do I really have to go through all this again? I honestly don't think anyone gives damn if it's worth 'investing' in a herc just so they can get into squads easier (unless they're venos). Why do you always have this strange idea in your head that people in this thread are trying to convince all the venos in the world to get a herc?
And for the blah blah about standards, how about the "standard" that world chats recruiting venos for FCC often specifically ask for a herc'd veno. Are they the top players on their respective servers? Probably not. Do they expect everyone to have +5 armors and +10 weapons? No. But are they creating a standard for which they expect venos to meet? Yes. Is that a significant group of people? Well I don't know, but I know a "significant" number of world chats advertising FCCs and need venos ask for a herc'd one.
And sorry, I don't have any random meaningless videos, and I'm not in the mood to click yours at the moment.0 -
manray, you really need to stop changing around the topic to suit your point. i've called you on this in the past and Lenore is doing so now. She's in the right.
Perhaps you lose sight of the original topic, or you have some inner dialogue that you battle when you end up typing your responses, but time after time you keep altering the origianl discussion where it ends up being off topic and completely wrong... just for the sake of arguing. Which is why I've pretty much given up and stopped responding. Circular logic is circular... it can stay stationary, you always seem to push it downhill.
The truth is, a veno may not be better or worse of a player with or without a herc, but a veno with a herc is more useful when all else is considered equal. It's not that a veno without a herc can't perform, it's more likely that a veno with a herc will. A veno with a herc will always get an invite to a pick up party before one who doesn't, and that will never change. Arguing anything other than this is pretty much off topic and irrelevant.
/threadI post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »...is the original herc-related topic of the thread, not whether a herc is required for instances.
That said, I never said a herc is necessary, nor did I say non-herc venos were incompetent. I said they have a harder time finding squads, which is what the OP said. Do I really have to go through all this again? I honestly don't think anyone gives damn if it's worth 'investing' in a herc just so they can get into squads easier (unless they're venos). Why do you always have this strange idea in your head that people in this thread are trying to convince all the venos in the world to get a herc?
And for the blah blah about standards, how about the "standard" that world chats recruiting venos for FCC often specifically ask for a herc'd veno. Are they the top players on their respective servers? Probably not. Do they expect everyone to have +5 armors and +10 weapons? No. But are they creating a standard for which they expect venos to meet? Yes. Is that a significant group of people? Well I don't know, but I know a "significant" number of world chats advertising FCCs and need venos ask for a herc'd one.
And sorry, I don't have any random meaningless videos, and I'm not in the mood to click yours at the moment.
"So knock it off and let non-herced venos do FCC, etc" to quote the OP verbatim. The point is relevant to instance runs since this is most commonly the circumstance in which more demanding squad compositions would be required, and it was the OP's original intent to remediate the misconception that an herc is a necessity. Granted, your including FCC runs as part of a standard is far broader in reach than the argument as originally represented by Rawrgh and Kiyoshi. However this would miss the original justification of such demands being based upon a better safety net being an integral part of a higher standard, since most often than not the composition of said group will merely follow a script in which competitive performance will not be considered an issue, as evidenced by your comments regarding what gears are commonly used.
Therefore, while in nature this may seem as esentially the same proposition it is in fact based on a different premise. Both rely on subjective perception however, and since it basically comes down to such being opinions, and it's been made patently clear it's not within the scope of this thread to discuss figures as regards to the player base, could we not agree that, whether legitimate or not, they neither contradict the OP's idea as first stated nor do they obligate any player to conform to a standard? Regardless of how we may choose to characterize them, opinions have little relevance to the thread's original subject and it is taxing and futile to continue debating them.
I take it your corrections were meant as a service. Cute.Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »manray, you really need to stop changing around the topic to suit your point. i've called you on this in the past and Lenore is doing so now. She's in the right.
Perhaps you lose sight of the original topic, or you have some inner dialogue that you battle when you end up typing your responses, but time after time you keep altering the origianl discussion where it ends up being off topic and completely wrong... just for the sake of arguing. Which is why I've pretty much given up and stopped responding. Circular logic is circular... it can stay stationary, you always seem to push it downhill.
The truth is, a veno may not be better or worse of a player with or without a herc, but a veno with a herc is more useful when all else is considered equal. It's not that a veno without a herc can't perform, it's more likely that a veno with a herc will. A veno with a herc will always get an invite to a pick up party before one who doesn't, and that will never change. Arguing anything other than this is pretty much off topic and irrelevant.
/thread
I would have considered it beneath you to kick a man when he's down but this is, after all, an open forum. The argument that an herc will provide some advantage, regardless of wether it is needed, was introduced early in this thread and has been the source of much of my disagreement with some posters. The debate has never been centered on whether such advantage, which i'll grant does exist, is in fact significant enough to become a reasonable expectation, this being the basis of my counter argument. It has instead been drawn to it's being readily available, and therefore considered a moot point to some, regardless of any considerations as to the effect of this on players using venomancers.
Wether it is reasonable or not, any squad is well entitled to set whatever standards they deem useful or necessary. Ironically enough i seem to remember you arguing the position a herc is not really necessary in some other thread, i probably must be mistaken. I would ask you however to explain this process of circular logic you deem important enough to devote the larger part of your post to. Granted, in heated exchange i may be forced to acomodate the various arguments presented to me, but had presumed to have made the effort of keeping the thread within bounds when not engaged in some of the more distasteful aspects of forum discussion... I would apreciate your enlightening me on this, as perhaps i am unable to apreciate the matter without some further clarification.0 -
MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Long wall of stuff I skimmed over
The corrections were because you spelled "whether" wrong every time you used it. Everyone makes typos. Not everyone does not know how to spell "whether." I'll read the rest of your post when I'm in the mood to decipher verbose convoluted sentences. I mean really, keep that stuff off the forums please. I have enough text books to read.0 -
MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Ironically enough i seem to remember you arguing the position a herc is not really necessary in some other thread, i probably must be mistaken.
I have always stated that a herc is not needed. My statement to you was clear and to the point. Herc does not make or break a player, it augments their effectiveness.I would apreciate your enlightening me on this, as perhaps i am unable to apreciate the matter without some further clarification.
Verbosity mode = off please. You would make far greater sense if you speak directly and to the point. Excessive verbiage does not suit you. It seems as if your ability to communicate is hindered by expanding your vocabulary, and quite frankly you give me a headache when it seems like you're trying to make a word count.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0
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